Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
11:00 |
|
hdl |
There, you see, we have at least two different ways. |
11:00 |
|
kados |
hehe |
11:00 |
|
hdl |
It is perlish TMTOWTDI |
11:00 |
|
kados |
well I would volunteer to find and change every syspref |
11:01 |
|
kados |
but every library upgrading would need to set up sysprefs from scratch (not a huge job) |
11:01 |
|
owen |
kados, couldn't you set up a process for translating the old syspref values into the new ones? |
11:01 |
|
owen |
...if they're direct analogues, that is. |
11:02 |
|
kados |
yea, that's true |
11:02 |
|
kados |
just a bit of sql actually |
11:02 |
|
kados |
update systempreferences set X=X where X=X; |
11:05 |
|
hpassini |
hi ! I'll try to answer to your questions ! |
11:05 |
|
kados |
? |
11:05 |
|
kados |
hi hpassini |
11:05 |
|
kados |
ahh, you're san op? :-) |
11:06 |
|
kados |
did you change your nick? |
11:06 |
|
hpassini |
yes i'am |
11:06 |
|
hpassini |
no |
11:06 |
|
kados |
ahh, ok, just ignore me then :-) |
11:07 |
|
hpassini |
about the professional borrowers |
11:07 |
|
kados |
yea? |
11:07 |
|
hpassini |
it's borrowers like teacher for example who can issues more items than another borrower |
11:08 |
|
hpassini |
is it clear for you or not ? |
11:08 |
|
kados |
yes |
11:08 |
|
kados |
but we dont' have in the US |
11:08 |
|
kados |
so probably why I was confused in the first place :-) |
11:09 |
|
kados |
thanks |
11:09 |
|
rch |
hi hpassini |
11:09 |
|
kados |
hpassini: but they seem to need to have a guarantee? |
11:09 |
|
kados |
hpassini: why would that be? |
11:09 |
|
owen |
kados, that's a feature that we've tried to implement for NPL in the past |
11:09 |
|
kados |
hehe |
11:09 |
|
kados |
owen++ |
11:09 |
|
owen |
Only instead of changing the limit on number of issues, we tried to alter the issuing period |
11:10 |
|
kados |
it didn't work? |
11:10 |
|
hpassini |
normaly only children need a guarantor |
11:10 |
|
owen |
It did, but it was something Stephen hard-coded in a previous version. |
11:10 |
|
owen |
Probably didn't survive the last upgrade, I don't know. |
11:10 |
|
rch |
yes, why is a professional borrower different than an adult borrower with different issuing rules? |
11:10 |
|
hdl |
He is different becaus he depends on an institution. |
11:11 |
|
hpassini |
beacause we need differents information and differents issuing rules |
11:12 |
|
owen |
Good point rch... I wonder if I'm misremembering what we tried to set up? |
11:13 |
|
kados |
what is the 'Structure' section ... is that supposed to be 'Institution'? |
11:14 |
|
kados |
or is it a guarantor? |
11:15 |
|
hpassini |
no it's not |
11:16 |
|
kados |
it seems to be guarantor since it has a 'relation' |
11:16 |
|
kados |
and options are father|mother |
11:18 |
|
hpassini |
you mean relation and not garantor |
11:18 |
|
hpassini |
ok it's right |
11:18 |
|
rch |
i think both guarantor and structure use relation from systemprefs. |
11:19 |
|
hpassini |
yes |
11:19 |
|
kados |
does structure mean 'place where professional person works'? |
11:20 |
|
hpassini |
yes |
11:20 |
|
rch |
so a professional is equivalent to a child borrower, but the guarantor does not need to be a member, |
11:20 |
|
kados |
ok, I'm gonna change it to 'Institution' in english |
11:22 |
|
hpassini |
ok |
11:23 |
|
hpassini |
the departement is the familly of items for example 'items for children' 'litterature' ... |
11:23 |
|
hpassini |
rigth ? |
11:24 |
|
rch |
btw, paul responded to that email. |
11:24 |
|
kados |
man, cvs is really messed up |
11:24 |
|
kados |
anyone else having trouble with savannah? |
11:25 |
|
rch |
the web cvs was inaccessible this morning |
11:25 |
|
kados |
cvs -z3 -d:ext:kadoscvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha |
11:25 |
|
kados |
checks out a bunch of stuff then I get |
11:25 |
|
kados |
Terminated with fatal signal 7! |
11:25 |
|
kados |
about half way through |
11:26 |
|
kados |
hdl: are you able to check out a fresh copy from CVS? |
11:27 |
|
owen |
Didn't someone try to kill James Bond with fatal signal 7? |
11:29 |
|
kados |
hehe |
11:30 |
|
kados |
rch: are you able to check out anything from savannah? |
11:30 |
|
kados |
weird, it dies in the same place every time |
11:31 |
|
owen |
With my Windows CVS client I get "cvs update: warning: cannot open /sources/koha/CVSROOT/val-tags read/write: Read-only file system |
11:31 |
|
owen |
cvs [update aborted]: cannot read /sources/koha/CVSROOT/val-tags: Input/output error" |
11:35 |
|
kados |
savannah-- |
11:35 |
|
kados |
http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/koha |
11:35 |
|
kados |
interesting error: |
11:36 |
|
kados |
Failed to connect to database. Invalid Group: that group does nto exist :-) |
11:36 |
|
kados |
must be a bad day at gnu.org |
11:36 |
|
owen |
Strange, I was on the site just over an hour ago and didn't see that error. |
11:36 |
|
kados |
looks like the whole site is borked |
11:36 |
|
kados |
probably a prob with their database server |
11:37 |
|
owen |
Speaking of borked, we need to talk about those help links in the OPAC. |
11:37 |
|
hdl |
:( |
11:37 |
|
owen |
They're leading to the Koha Wiki homepage, which isn't very helpful. |
11:37 |
|
kados |
yea |
11:37 |
|
owen |
http://wiki.koha.org/?id=en:opachelp# |
11:37 |
|
rch |
yes, those need to go away |
11:37 |
|
kados |
did you see that report from diane neal? |
11:38 |
|
kados |
she mentioned that having help directly next to the items was the way to go |
11:38 |
|
kados |
inline help |
11:38 |
|
owen |
Oh, the usability report? |
11:38 |
|
kados |
yea |
11:38 |
|
kados |
hehe |
11:39 |
|
kados |
I also have a ton of feedback from her students sitting here |
11:39 |
|
kados |
from the first koha with class class |
11:39 |
|
kados |
they all did reports on their experiences |
11:39 |
|
kados |
might be useful to look it over and glean any usability tips from it as well |
11:39 |
|
kados |
I know everyone had trouble with serials and acquisitions |
11:39 |
|
kados |
and authorities too |
11:39 |
|
owen |
Yeah, me too :) |
11:40 |
|
kados |
hehe |
11:40 |
|
kados |
serials is getting there now |
11:40 |
|
kados |
with the new corp serials module out of NZ |
11:40 |
|
kados |
but acqui could still use some attention |
11:40 |
|
kados |
and our MARC editor is perhaps the weakest part of Koha currently |
11:41 |
|
owen |
Off the subject, but what is the part of the MARC record that indicates whether the title is fiction or non-fiction? |
11:42 |
|
kados |
yea ... |
11:42 |
|
owen |
I'm curious about the first result of this search: http://search.athenscounty.lib[…]:e%20and%20fic:0) |
11:43 |
|
owen |
I'm assuming it's a catalogging error |
11:43 |
|
kados |
it's position 33 in the 008 |
11:43 |
|
kados |
0=non fiction, 1=fiction |
11:44 |
|
kados |
there is no position 33 in that 008 |
11:44 |
|
kados |
so I'm not sure why it's coming up ... |
11:46 |
|
kados |
maybe null==0 ? |
11:47 |
|
owen |
So it is a catalogging error, but it's also an error that it appears in the search results? |
11:50 |
|
kados |
yea, it would seem so |
11:50 |
|
kados |
I might be able to fix it by doing it as a number index |
11:51 |
|
kados |
rather than a string |
11:51 |
|
kados |
in fact, I bet that's the prob |
11:51 |
|
kados |
owen: I'll try that tonigth and report back |
11:52 |
|
owen |
Thanks. I realize it's not a big thing. |
11:52 |
|
kados |
seems big to me :-) |
12:18 |
|
owen |
:) |
12:19 |
|
kados |
once I get it right I'm gonna do a blog post on it :-) |
12:23 |
|
kados |
success! |
12:24 |
|
kados |
owen: try it out in the opac and if you're satisfied, close that bug :-) |
12:25 |
|
kados |
owen: by the way, in a demo I did yesterday, some catalogers were wondering why we had ON ORDER printed in records |
12:26 |
|
kados |
are the catalogers still putting in that text? |
12:26 |
|
owen |
Yes, because there was no good way to indicate to the users that a title was on order |
12:27 |
|
owen |
...at the time, that is. Now we've got the status working for us. |
12:27 |
|
kados |
ahh, ok |
12:35 |
|
kados |
owen: now I've got a bug for you :-) |
12:35 |
|
kados |
owen: if you look at the NPL opac in IE there's a 'rendered but with errors' warning |
12:36 |
|
owen |
Which page? |
12:36 |
|
kados |
all of them AFAIK |
12:37 |
|
kados |
or at least all the search results pages |
12:37 |
|
owen |
Which version of IE? |
12:38 |
|
kados |
weird |
12:38 |
|
kados |
I can't reproduce it |
12:38 |
|
kados |
but I've seen it twice now |
12:38 |
|
kados |
and darrell from SMFPL reported it |
12:38 |
|
kados |
sorry :-) |
12:39 |
|
owen |
Ah, SMFPL--yes |
12:39 |
|
owen |
I saw this the other day, kados |
12:39 |
|
kados |
ahh, yea? |
12:39 |
|
owen |
Let me re-check. |
12:39 |
|
kados |
maybe it's just on their site? |
12:40 |
|
kados |
prepareopaclogin is undefined |
12:40 |
|
kados |
just got that debug message |
12:40 |
|
kados |
maybe that's it |
12:40 |
|
owen |
Yes, they've got NPL's custom javascript in their system preferences. |
12:40 |
|
kados |
rch: you there? |
12:43 |
|
owen |
Looks like they removed one chunk of the custom javascript but not all of it. They should take it all out. |
12:54 |
|
kados |
lunch time |
12:54 |
|
kados |
bbl |
15:00 |
|
kados |
savannah-- |
15:05 |
|
rch |
kados: any word from savannah? |
15:05 |
|
kados |
their only help channel is the website |
15:05 |
|
kados |
that I know of |
15:09 |
|
rch |
is Shelf.pm an abandoned OO rewrite of virt. shelves? or is BookShelves.pm a non-OO rewrite of Shelf? |
15:10 |
|
kados |
no idea |
17:22 |
|
kados |
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to have 40 billable hours per week out of all three of you :-) |
17:23 |
|
kados |
but that's probably not realistic :-) |
23:06 |
|
kaavik |
are there any pages on the web, that talk about computing power estimates? |
23:06 |
|
chris |
sorry? |
23:06 |
|
chris |
im not sure i understand what you mean |
23:06 |
|
kaavik |
IOW, someone is trying to suggest to a local school |
23:07 |
|
kaavik |
about putting some kind of electronic circulation system in place |
23:07 |
|
kaavik |
and I want to know, "how big a computer" is needed |
23:07 |
|
kaavik |
assuming they went with koha ... |
23:08 |
|
kaavik |
I mean, if they make an old P60 boot, and it's their only circ terminal |
23:08 |
|
kados |
hi kaavik |
23:08 |
|
kaavik |
...will that cut it? |
23:08 |
|
kados |
you can run koha on anything |
23:08 |
|
kados |
I've got it running on a linux pda :-) |
23:08 |
|
kados |
the big question is how many records you have |
23:09 |
|
kaavik |
hmm |
23:09 |
|
kados |
if you run version 2.2.8 and you have more than say, 100K records, you should consider better hardware |
23:09 |
|
kaavik |
and, I assume, how many terminals are active at once ... |
23:09 |
|
kados |
how many terminals do you plan on having active? |
23:09 |
|
kados |
more than say 15 or so? |
23:09 |
|
kaavik |
I don't know, being as I don't even know which school they're talking about |
23:10 |
|
kados |
right |
23:10 |
|
kaavik |
I work for the 'big library' |
23:10 |
|
kaavik |
in the computer dept |
23:10 |
|
kaavik |
...some patron just asked about "free circ. software' |
23:10 |
|
kaavik |
...at another branch ;-P |
23:10 |
|
kaavik |
us, we're using Sirsi / Dynix |
23:10 |
|
kaavik |
'cuz we're rich, I guess ... |
23:11 |
|
kaavik |
but, 10-15 terminals, is you think the point at which they need to look at rack mounted servers to power it? |
23:12 |
|
kados |
most of the medium sized libraries running koha (with 10-15 terminals) run on very modest hardware |
23:12 |
|
kados |
say an entry level dell server with 2 gig of ram or something |
23:13 |
|
kaavik |
not bad |
23:13 |
|
kaavik |
now, we have about 400 terminals all told |
23:13 |
|
kaavik |
most of which are catalog only |
23:14 |
|
kados |
right |
23:14 |
|
kaavik |
Dell server though -- that's promising |
23:14 |
|
kaavik |
I'll pass it along |
23:14 |
|
chris |
Koha isnt cheaper its better :-) |
23:14 |
|
kados |
yea |
23:14 |
|
kados |
kaavik: liblime.com/demos |
23:14 |
|
kaavik |
as a linux geek myself, I agree wholeheartedly |
23:15 |
|
kados |
kaavik: check out the link for 'Koha ZOOM Opac' |
23:15 |
|
chris |
its the problem FLOSS runs up against |
23:15 |
|
kados |
the searching in Koha is among the best in ILSes today |
23:15 |
|
chris |
which as a linux geek im sure you are aware of |
23:15 |
|
kaavik |
chris: yeah. :-| |
23:19 |
|
chris |
i think someone got koha going on a playstation once |
23:19 |
|
chris |
why, i dont know |
23:19 |
|
chris |
:) |
23:19 |
|
kaavik |
ROTFL |
23:20 |
|
kaavik |
I have a PS2, and have considered getting a linux disc for it ... |
23:20 |
|
chris |
yeah i never use my ps2 anymore |
23:20 |
|
kaavik |
that would greatly amuse me, to check tools out using a PS2 |
23:20 |
|
chris |
hehe |
23:20 |
|
kaavik |
katamari damacy |
23:20 |
|
chris |
ah yeah, everyone loves katamari |
23:20 |
|
kaavik |
I bought a PS2 just so I could play it |
23:21 |
|
kaavik |
well, too, I just bought mine a month ago |
23:21 |
|
kaavik |
haven't been into the console wars since I gave up my original NES |
23:21 |
|
chris |
http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz[…]l-katamari-lovers |
23:22 |
|
kaavik |
Na Naa, Na na na na na na naaaa .... |
23:24 |
|
kaavik |
OK you guys, many thanks |
23:24 |
|
chris |
np |
23:24 |
|
kaavik |
I need to get back to work :-| |
06:09 |
|
js |
hi #koha |
09:27 |
|
kados |
hdl: are you there? |
09:27 |
|
kados |
hdl: savannah is still down for me |
09:27 |
|
kados |
:( |
09:53 |
|
owen |
kados, you around? |
09:54 |
|
hdl |
kados : yes |
10:02 |
|
kados |
hey guys |
10:02 |
|
kados |
owen: what's up? |
10:02 |
|
owen |
I noticed your Liblime OPAC demo has the same javascript error as SMFPL |
10:02 |
|
kados |
hehe |
10:02 |
|
kados |
thanks for noticing :-) |
10:02 |
|
kados |
rch: ! |
10:02 |
|
owen |
...and I notice you nicked NPL's featured search idea ;) |
10:03 |
|
kados |
hehe, yea :- |
10:03 |
|
kados |
your front page still owns though :-) |
10:03 |
|
kados |
hdl: so what are we gonna do about CVS? |
10:04 |
|
kados |
hdl: is paul available briefly? |
10:04 |
|
kados |
hdl: I'm concerned that whoever runs savannah hasn't even bothered to put up a splash page saying 'we know we're down, and we're working on it' |
10:05 |
|
kados |
I wonder if we shoould host at google |
10:06 |
|
kados |
hi paul |
10:06 |
|
paul |
hi kados |
10:06 |
|
kados |
thanks for coming |
10:06 |
|
kados |
savannah has been down for two days |
10:06 |
|
kados |
with no splash page even saying why |
10:07 |
|
kados |
hehe |
10:07 |
|
kados |
sorry |
10:07 |
|
kados |
google has subversion: http://code.google.com/hosting/ |
10:09 |
|
kados |
paul: any thoughts? |
10:11 |
|
paul |
yep, even if no definitive opinion. |
10:11 |
|
paul |
- we need a better tool |
10:11 |
|
paul |
- we need a tool that can attract developpers, or at least, not frighten them |
10:12 |
|
paul |
- we need to choose wisely & "definetly" |
10:12 |
|
paul |
OpenCataloger uses SVN, it's quite fun |
10:12 |
|
paul |
& has some nice graphic tools under linux. |
10:12 |
|
rch |
svn++ |
10:12 |
|
kados |
yea, liblime uses svn internally, and we love it |
10:12 |
|
paul |
hdl just tells me that chris is testing GIT |
10:12 |
|
kados |
yes, chris and I discussed this yesterday |
10:13 |
|
kados |
and we agreed that git is cool |
10:13 |
|
kados |
but probably too hard for most koha developers |
10:13 |
|
paul |
I have no opinion about a distributed or not distributed tool. |
10:13 |
|
kados |
to understand 'distributed' version control |
10:13 |
|
kados |
and it might prevent user contribution |
10:13 |
|
paul |
so, let's stay with a standard one. |
10:13 |
|
hdl |
To my mind using a distributed version control would be useful. |
10:13 |
|
paul |
that's a definitive exclusion for me. |
10:14 |
|
hdl |
User contribution is not so frequent with CVS widely spread. |
10:14 |
|
paul |
yes hdl, but I strongly think we need more "more devs" than a distributed tool. |
10:15 |
|
kados |
hdl: but if we move to git we will probably get no contribs :-) |
10:15 |
|
hdl |
ppl coming on the project or ppl we would "coach" would learn CVS or any version control system. |
10:15 |
|
kados |
what chris and I discussed |
10:16 |
|
kados |
is better use of branching in svn |
10:16 |
|
kados |
and then when a branch is stable, merge it into the main trunk |
10:16 |
|
kados |
anyway, can we arrive at a concensus about svn? |
10:17 |
|
kados |
hdl: do you hate svn? :-) |
10:17 |
|
hdl |
Nope. I didnot test. |
10:17 |
|
paul |
hdl : very easy to use with kdesvn |
10:17 |
|
paul |
it's as easy as cervesia for CVS |
10:18 |
|
hdl |
But I currently have problems with versions that I tweaked for clients and that I want to upgrade. |
10:18 |
|
kados |
hdl: what kind of probs? |
10:19 |
|
paul |
1 thing ++ for svn is the possibility to import CVS with most of the history afaik |
10:19 |
|
kados |
yea |
10:19 |
|
kados |
but we don't have a CVS repo anymore :-) |
10:19 |
|
hdl |
I have to re do all the diffs. |
10:20 |
|
hdl |
There are svn forge though. |
10:20 |
|
paul |
kados : why choose ggl for svn hosting ? |
10:20 |
|
hdl |
gna! |
10:20 |
|
paul |
why not gna.org (like for opencataloger) |
10:20 |
|
hdl |
https://gna.org/ |
10:21 |
|
kados |
paul: because in a year, I dn't want to have to say 'gna is slow ... or broken ... what will we do?' |
10:21 |
|
kados |
with google we know it will be fast, and maintained well |
10:21 |
|
paul |
good point. ggle can be considered as "stable" I bet. |
10:22 |
|
paul |
so why not a private hosting ? |
10:22 |
|
paul |
(on koha.org or koha-fr.org ?) |
10:22 |
|
kados |
my thinking is: |
10:22 |
|
kados |
- we are software developers, not sys admins :-) |
10:22 |
|
kados |
- google has real sysadmins to manage their savannah hosting platform |
10:23 |
|
hdl |
s/savannah/subversion |
10:23 |
|
kados |
hehe, yea |
10:23 |
|
kados |
sorry |
10:23 |
|
hdl |
:D |
10:23 |
|
paul |
ok, sounds good reasons. |
10:23 |
|
owen |
kados, have you Googled for feedback about Google's code hosting? |
10:24 |
|
kados |
owen: no, but I've used it for a few projects |
10:24 |
|
paul |
can I let you continue this speak & go back to dish cleaning ? |
10:24 |
|
hdl |
could we host and sync backups ? |
10:24 |
|
kados |
owen: like the google worldmap |
10:24 |
|
kados |
owen: I mean koha worldmap |
10:24 |
|
paul |
(i can read & answer 1 or 2 questions in 20mn I think) |
10:24 |
|
kados |
paul: ok, thanks |
10:24 |
|
hdl |
thx paul |
10:24 |
|
kados |
hdl: yep, we could have backups |
10:24 |
|
owen |
Yeah, if paul gets in trouble for not doing the dishes his wife might not let him come play with us! |
10:25 |
|
kados |
hehe |
10:25 |
|
kados |
http://www.infoq.com/news/Revi[…]on-Google-Hosting |
10:25 |
|
kados |
looks like a balanced review |
10:25 |
|
owen |
"While Google provides Subversion hosting, it doesn’t look like there’s currently a way to import the contents of an existing repository into it." |
10:25 |
|
owen |
http://endoframe.com/log/?p=23 |
10:26 |
|
kados |
yea, we'd have to start over with our history |
10:26 |
|
kados |
personally, I don't think that matters much |
10:26 |
|
kados |
at this point |
10:26 |
|
kados |
I can't anticipate we'll need to roll back |
10:29 |
|
kados |
I know chris would probably disagree with me there :-) |
10:29 |
|
kados |
he likes repo histories |
10:30 |
|
kados |
hehe |
10:31 |
|
kados |
ok, well where to go from here? |
10:31 |
|
kados |
paul, jmf, rch, chris agree that svn is OK |
10:31 |
|
kados |
hdl too? |
10:32 |
|
kados |
so I suppose we should also check with the koha-dev community :-) |
10:32 |
|
kados |
I'll write an email |
10:32 |
|
kados |
hdl: ok with google too? |
10:32 |
|
kados |
or do you need more info? |
10:33 |
|
hdl |
what you told was quite sensible. |
10:33 |
|
hdl |
But I regret to fall back into american hands :D |
10:33 |
|
kados |
hehe |
10:34 |
|
hdl |
we could initiate the stuff for google then officlize when koha-devel community agrees. Couldn't we ? |
10:34 |
|
kados |
I'm gonna write a email to alert that a decision will be made today |
10:35 |
|
kados |
if someone wants to give an opinion they can |
10:40 |
|
paul |
reading the little history... |
10:40 |
|
PaulShannon |
The download page at savannah looks like it is down. Anyone confirm? |
10:40 |
|
paul |
OK to be counted in the "pro svn" team. |
10:41 |
|
kados |
PaulShannon: yea, email about that forthcoming to koha-devel |
10:41 |
|
paul |
my only question is about ggl licence of the code. do they guarantee ggl code is JUST a code repo. |
10:41 |
|
paul |
and ggl in this matter is just a forge. |
10:41 |
|
PaulShannon |
Is there a mirror somewhere? |
10:41 |
|
paul |
I may sound paranoiac, but I just want to be sure. |
10:41 |
|
paul |
ok, guys, I leave again ;-) |
10:43 |
|
kados |
paul_away: i will address that question in my email after a bit of research |
10:43 |
|
kados |
PaulShannon: you looking to check out from CVS or download 2.2.8? |
10:44 |
|
PaulShannon |
2.2.8. Haven't looked at it at all yet. |
10:44 |
|
kados |
hdl: do you have a 'backup' of 2.2.8 we can throw up on koha.org? |
10:46 |
|
hdl |
I didnot download the tarball. |
10:46 |
|
hdl |
But I have rel_2_2_7 |
10:47 |
|
hdl |
a pity TG will have to recommit his stuff |
10:54 |
|
PaulShannon |
Is someone putting 2.2.7 up on koha.org, or can I get a copy? |
10:56 |
|
kados |
PaulShannon: we'll get you a copy of 2.2.8 asap |
10:56 |
|
kados |
PaulShannon: I gotta finish this email to koha-devel first |