Time Nick Message 10:56 kados PaulShannon: I gotta finish this email to koha-devel first 10:56 kados PaulShannon: we'll get you a copy of 2.2.8 asap 10:54 PaulShannon Is someone putting 2.2.7 up on koha.org, or can I get a copy? 10:47 hdl a pity TG will have to recommit his stuff 10:46 hdl But I have rel_2_2_7 10:46 hdl I didnot download the tarball. 10:44 kados hdl: do you have a 'backup' of 2.2.8 we can throw up on koha.org? 10:44 PaulShannon 2.2.8. Haven't looked at it at all yet. 10:43 kados PaulShannon: you looking to check out from CVS or download 2.2.8? 10:43 kados paul_away: i will address that question in my email after a bit of research 10:41 paul ok, guys, I leave again ;-) 10:41 paul I may sound paranoiac, but I just want to be sure. 10:41 PaulShannon Is there a mirror somewhere? 10:41 paul and ggl in this matter is just a forge. 10:41 paul my only question is about ggl licence of the code. do they guarantee ggl code is JUST a code repo. 10:41 kados PaulShannon: yea, email about that forthcoming to koha-devel 10:40 paul OK to be counted in the "pro svn" team. 10:40 PaulShannon The download page at savannah looks like it is down. Anyone confirm? 10:40 paul reading the little history... 10:35 kados if someone wants to give an opinion they can 10:34 kados I'm gonna write a email to alert that a decision will be made today 10:34 hdl we could initiate the stuff for google then officlize when koha-devel community agrees. Couldn't we ? 10:33 kados hehe 10:33 hdl But I regret to fall back into american hands :D 10:33 hdl what you told was quite sensible. 10:32 kados or do you need more info? 10:32 kados hdl: ok with google too? 10:32 kados I'll write an email 10:32 kados so I suppose we should also check with the koha-dev community :-) 10:31 kados hdl too? 10:31 kados paul, jmf, rch, chris agree that svn is OK 10:31 kados ok, well where to go from here? 10:30 kados hehe 10:29 kados he likes repo histories 10:29 kados I know chris would probably disagree with me there :-) 10:26 kados I can't anticipate we'll need to roll back 10:26 kados at this point 10:26 kados personally, I don't think that matters much 10:26 kados yea, we'd have to start over with our history 10:25 owen http://endoframe.com/log/?p=23 10:25 owen "While Google provides Subversion hosting, it doesn’t look like there’s currently a way to import the contents of an existing repository into it." 10:25 kados looks like a balanced review 10:25 kados http://www.infoq.com/news/Reviews-Mixed-on-Google-Hosting 10:25 kados hehe 10:24 owen Yeah, if paul gets in trouble for not doing the dishes his wife might not let him come play with us! 10:24 kados hdl: yep, we could have backups 10:24 hdl thx paul 10:24 kados paul: ok, thanks 10:24 paul (i can read & answer 1 or 2 questions in 20mn I think) 10:24 kados owen: I mean koha worldmap 10:24 kados owen: like the google worldmap 10:24 hdl could we host and sync backups ? 10:24 paul can I let you continue this speak & go back to dish cleaning ? 10:24 kados owen: no, but I've used it for a few projects 10:23 owen kados, have you Googled for feedback about Google's code hosting? 10:23 paul ok, sounds good reasons. 10:23 hdl :D 10:23 kados sorry 10:23 kados hehe, yea 10:23 hdl s/savannah/subversion 10:22 kados - google has real sysadmins to manage their savannah hosting platform 10:22 kados - we are software developers, not sys admins :-) 10:22 kados my thinking is: 10:22 paul (on koha.org or koha-fr.org ?) 10:22 paul so why not a private hosting ? 10:21 paul good point. ggle can be considered as "stable" I bet. 10:21 kados with google we know it will be fast, and maintained well 10:21 kados paul: because in a year, I dn't want to have to say 'gna is slow ... or broken ... what will we do?' 10:20 hdl https://gna.org/ 10:20 paul why not gna.org (like for opencataloger) 10:20 hdl gna! 10:20 paul kados : why choose ggl for svn hosting ? 10:20 hdl There are svn forge though. 10:19 hdl I have to re do all the diffs. 10:19 kados but we don't have a CVS repo anymore :-) 10:19 kados yea 10:19 paul 1 thing ++ for svn is the possibility to import CVS with most of the history afaik 10:18 kados hdl: what kind of probs? 10:18 hdl But I currently have problems with versions that I tweaked for clients and that I want to upgrade. 10:17 paul it's as easy as cervesia for CVS 10:17 paul hdl : very easy to use with kdesvn 10:17 hdl Nope. I didnot test. 10:17 kados hdl: do you hate svn? :-) 10:16 kados anyway, can we arrive at a concensus about svn? 10:16 kados and then when a branch is stable, merge it into the main trunk 10:16 kados is better use of branching in svn 10:15 kados what chris and I discussed 10:15 hdl ppl coming on the project or ppl we would "coach" would learn CVS or any version control system. 10:15 kados hdl: but if we move to git we will probably get no contribs :-) 10:14 paul yes hdl, but I strongly think we need more "more devs" than a distributed tool. 10:14 hdl User contribution is not so frequent with CVS widely spread. 10:13 paul that's a definitive exclusion for me. 10:13 hdl To my mind using a distributed version control would be useful. 10:13 paul so, let's stay with a standard one. 10:13 kados and it might prevent user contribution 10:13 kados to understand 'distributed' version control 10:13 paul I have no opinion about a distributed or not distributed tool. 10:13 kados but probably too hard for most koha developers 10:13 kados and we agreed that git is cool 10:12 kados yes, chris and I discussed this yesterday 10:12 paul hdl just tells me that chris is testing GIT 10:12 kados yea, liblime uses svn internally, and we love it 10:12 rch svn++ 10:12 paul & has some nice graphic tools under linux. 10:12 paul OpenCataloger uses SVN, it's quite fun 10:12 paul - we need to choose wisely & "definetly" 10:11 paul - we need a tool that can attract developpers, or at least, not frighten them 10:11 paul - we need a better tool 10:11 paul yep, even if no definitive opinion. 10:09 kados paul: any thoughts? 10:07 kados google has subversion: http://code.google.com/hosting/ 10:07 kados sorry 10:07 kados hehe 10:06 kados with no splash page even saying why 10:06 kados savannah has been down for two days 10:06 kados thanks for coming 10:06 paul hi kados 10:06 kados hi paul 10:05 kados I wonder if we shoould host at google 10:04 kados hdl: I'm concerned that whoever runs savannah hasn't even bothered to put up a splash page saying 'we know we're down, and we're working on it' 10:04 kados hdl: is paul available briefly? 10:03 kados hdl: so what are we gonna do about CVS? 10:03 kados your front page still owns though :-) 10:03 kados hehe, yea :- 10:02 owen ...and I notice you nicked NPL's featured search idea ;) 10:02 kados rch: ! 10:02 kados thanks for noticing :-) 10:02 kados hehe 10:02 owen I noticed your Liblime OPAC demo has the same javascript error as SMFPL 10:02 kados owen: what's up? 10:02 kados hey guys 09:54 hdl kados : yes 09:53 owen kados, you around? 09:27 kados :( 09:27 kados hdl: savannah is still down for me 09:27 kados hdl: are you there? 06:09 js hi #koha 23:24 kaavik I need to get back to work :-| 23:24 chris np 23:24 kaavik OK you guys, many thanks 23:22 kaavik Na Naa, Na na na na na na naaaa .... 23:21 chris http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/articles/2006/09/24/for-all-katamari-lovers 23:21 kaavik haven't been into the console wars since I gave up my original NES 23:21 kaavik well, too, I just bought mine a month ago 23:20 kaavik I bought a PS2 just so I could play it 23:20 chris ah yeah, everyone loves katamari 23:20 kaavik katamari damacy 23:20 chris hehe 23:20 kaavik that would greatly amuse me, to check tools out using a PS2 23:20 chris yeah i never use my ps2 anymore 23:20 kaavik I have a PS2, and have considered getting a linux disc for it ... 23:19 kaavik ROTFL 23:19 chris :) 23:19 chris why, i dont know 23:19 chris i think someone got koha going on a playstation once 23:15 kaavik chris: yeah. :-| 23:15 chris which as a linux geek im sure you are aware of 23:15 kados the searching in Koha is among the best in ILSes today 23:15 chris its the problem FLOSS runs up against 23:15 kados kaavik: check out the link for 'Koha ZOOM Opac' 23:14 kaavik as a linux geek myself, I agree wholeheartedly 23:14 kados kaavik: liblime.com/demos 23:14 kados yea 23:14 chris Koha isnt cheaper its better :-) 23:14 kaavik I'll pass it along 23:14 kaavik Dell server though -- that's promising 23:14 kados right 23:13 kaavik most of which are catalog only 23:13 kaavik now, we have about 400 terminals all told 23:13 kaavik not bad 23:12 kados say an entry level dell server with 2 gig of ram or something 23:12 kados most of the medium sized libraries running koha (with 10-15 terminals) run on very modest hardware 23:11 kaavik but, 10-15 terminals, is you think the point at which they need to look at rack mounted servers to power it? 23:10 kaavik 'cuz we're rich, I guess ... 23:10 kaavik us, we're using Sirsi / Dynix 23:10 kaavik ...at another branch ;-P 23:10 kaavik ...some patron just asked about "free circ. software' 23:10 kaavik in the computer dept 23:10 kaavik I work for the 'big library' 23:10 kados right 23:09 kaavik I don't know, being as I don't even know which school they're talking about 23:09 kados more than say 15 or so? 23:09 kados how many terminals do you plan on having active? 23:09 kaavik and, I assume, how many terminals are active at once ... 23:09 kados if you run version 2.2.8 and you have more than say, 100K records, you should consider better hardware 23:09 kaavik hmm 23:08 kados the big question is how many records you have 23:08 kados I've got it running on a linux pda :-) 23:08 kados you can run koha on anything 23:08 kaavik ...will that cut it? 23:08 kados hi kaavik 23:08 kaavik I mean, if they make an old P60 boot, and it's their only circ terminal 23:07 kaavik assuming they went with koha ... 23:07 kaavik and I want to know, "how big a computer" is needed 23:07 kaavik about putting some kind of electronic circulation system in place 23:06 kaavik IOW, someone is trying to suggest to a local school 23:06 chris im not sure i understand what you mean 23:06 chris sorry? 23:06 kaavik are there any pages on the web, that talk about computing power estimates? 17:23 kados but that's probably not realistic :-) 17:22 kados I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to have 40 billable hours per week out of all three of you :-) 15:10 kados no idea 15:09 rch is Shelf.pm an abandoned OO rewrite of virt. shelves? or is BookShelves.pm a non-OO rewrite of Shelf? 15:05 kados that I know of 15:05 kados their only help channel is the website 15:05 rch kados: any word from savannah? 15:00 kados savannah-- 12:54 kados bbl 12:54 kados lunch time 12:43 owen Looks like they removed one chunk of the custom javascript but not all of it. They should take it all out. 12:40 kados rch: you there? 12:40 owen Yes, they've got NPL's custom javascript in their system preferences. 12:40 kados maybe that's it 12:40 kados just got that debug message 12:40 kados prepareopaclogin is undefined 12:39 kados maybe it's just on their site? 12:39 owen Let me re-check. 12:39 kados ahh, yea? 12:39 owen I saw this the other day, kados 12:39 owen Ah, SMFPL--yes 12:38 kados sorry :-) 12:38 kados and darrell from SMFPL reported it 12:38 kados but I've seen it twice now 12:38 kados I can't reproduce it 12:38 kados weird 12:37 owen Which version of IE? 12:37 kados or at least all the search results pages 12:36 kados all of them AFAIK 12:36 owen Which page? 12:35 kados owen: if you look at the NPL opac in IE there's a 'rendered but with errors' warning 12:35 kados owen: now I've got a bug for you :-) 12:27 kados ahh, ok 12:27 owen ...at the time, that is. Now we've got the status working for us. 12:26 owen Yes, because there was no good way to indicate to the users that a title was on order 12:26 kados are the catalogers still putting in that text? 12:25 kados owen: by the way, in a demo I did yesterday, some catalogers were wondering why we had ON ORDER printed in records 12:24 kados owen: try it out in the opac and if you're satisfied, close that bug :-) 12:23 kados success! 12:19 kados once I get it right I'm gonna do a blog post on it :-) 12:18 owen :) 11:52 kados seems big to me :-) 11:52 owen Thanks. I realize it's not a big thing. 11:51 kados owen: I'll try that tonigth and report back 11:51 kados in fact, I bet that's the prob 11:51 kados rather than a string 11:50 kados I might be able to fix it by doing it as a number index 11:50 kados yea, it would seem so 11:47 owen So it is a catalogging error, but it's also an error that it appears in the search results? 11:46 kados maybe null==0 ? 11:44 kados so I'm not sure why it's coming up ... 11:44 kados there is no position 33 in that 008 11:43 kados 0=non fiction, 1=fiction 11:43 kados it's position 33 in the 008 11:43 owen I'm assuming it's a catalogging error 11:42 owen I'm curious about the first result of this search: http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search?q=ccl=onorder:-1%20and%20(aud:e%20and%20fic:0) 11:42 kados yea ... 11:41 owen Off the subject, but what is the part of the MARC record that indicates whether the title is fiction or non-fiction? 11:40 kados and our MARC editor is perhaps the weakest part of Koha currently 11:40 kados but acqui could still use some attention 11:40 kados with the new corp serials module out of NZ 11:40 kados serials is getting there now 11:40 kados hehe 11:39 owen Yeah, me too :) 11:39 kados and authorities too 11:39 kados I know everyone had trouble with serials and acquisitions 11:39 kados might be useful to look it over and glean any usability tips from it as well 11:39 kados they all did reports on their experiences 11:39 kados from the first koha with class class 11:39 kados I also have a ton of feedback from her students sitting here 11:38 kados hehe 11:38 kados yea 11:38 owen Oh, the usability report? 11:38 kados inline help 11:38 kados she mentioned that having help directly next to the items was the way to go 11:37 kados did you see that report from diane neal? 11:37 rch yes, those need to go away 11:37 owen http://wiki.koha.org/?id=en:opachelp# 11:37 kados yea 11:37 owen They're leading to the Koha Wiki homepage, which isn't very helpful. 11:37 hdl :( 11:37 owen Speaking of borked, we need to talk about those help links in the OPAC. 11:36 kados probably a prob with their database server 11:36 kados looks like the whole site is borked 11:36 owen Strange, I was on the site just over an hour ago and didn't see that error. 11:36 kados must be a bad day at gnu.org 11:36 kados Failed to connect to database. Invalid Group: that group does nto exist :-) 11:35 kados interesting error: 11:35 kados http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/koha 11:35 kados savannah-- 11:31 owen cvs [update aborted]: cannot read /sources/koha/CVSROOT/val-tags: Input/output error" 11:31 owen With my Windows CVS client I get "cvs update: warning: cannot open /sources/koha/CVSROOT/val-tags read/write: Read-only file system 11:30 kados weird, it dies in the same place every time 11:30 kados rch: are you able to check out anything from savannah? 11:29 kados hehe 11:27 owen Didn't someone try to kill James Bond with fatal signal 7? 11:26 kados hdl: are you able to check out a fresh copy from CVS? 11:25 kados about half way through 11:25 kados Terminated with fatal signal 7! 11:25 kados checks out a bunch of stuff then I get 11:25 kados cvs -z3 -d:ext:kados@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha 11:25 rch the web cvs was inaccessible this morning 11:24 kados anyone else having trouble with savannah? 11:24 kados man, cvs is really messed up 11:24 rch btw, paul responded to that email. 11:23 hpassini rigth ? 11:23 hpassini the departement is the familly of items for example 'items for children' 'litterature' ... 11:22 hpassini ok 11:20 kados ok, I'm gonna change it to 'Institution' in english 11:20 rch so a professional is equivalent to a child borrower, but the guarantor does not need to be a member, 11:20 hpassini yes 11:19 kados does structure mean 'place where professional person works'? 11:19 hpassini yes 11:18 rch i think both guarantor and structure use relation from systemprefs. 11:18 hpassini ok it's right 11:18 hpassini you mean relation and not garantor 11:16 kados and options are father|mother 11:16 kados it seems to be guarantor since it has a 'relation' 11:15 hpassini no it's not 11:14 kados or is it a guarantor? 11:13 kados what is the 'Structure' section ... is that supposed to be 'Institution'? 11:12 owen Good point rch... I wonder if I'm misremembering what we tried to set up? 11:11 hpassini beacause we need differents information and differents issuing rules 11:10 hdl He is different becaus he depends on an institution. 11:10 rch yes, why is a professional borrower different than an adult borrower with different issuing rules? 11:10 owen Probably didn't survive the last upgrade, I don't know. 11:10 owen It did, but it was something Stephen hard-coded in a previous version. 11:10 hpassini normaly only children need a guarantor 11:10 kados it didn't work? 11:09 owen Only instead of changing the limit on number of issues, we tried to alter the issuing period 11:09 kados owen++ 11:09 kados hehe 11:09 owen kados, that's a feature that we've tried to implement for NPL in the past 11:09 kados hpassini: why would that be? 11:09 kados hpassini: but they seem to need to have a guarantee? 11:09 rch hi hpassini 11:09 kados thanks 11:08 kados so probably why I was confused in the first place :-) 11:08 kados but we dont' have in the US 11:08 kados yes 11:08 hpassini is it clear for you or not ? 11:07 hpassini it's borrowers like teacher for example who can issues more items than another borrower 11:07 kados yea? 11:07 hpassini about the professional borrowers 11:06 kados ahh, ok, just ignore me then :-) 11:06 hpassini no 11:06 hpassini yes i'am 11:06 kados did you change your nick? 11:05 kados ahh, you're san op? :-) 11:05 kados hi hpassini 11:05 kados ? 11:05 hpassini hi ! I'll try to answer to your questions ! 11:02 kados update systempreferences set X=X where X=X; 11:02 kados just a bit of sql actually 11:02 kados yea, that's true 11:01 owen ...if they're direct analogues, that is. 11:01 owen kados, couldn't you set up a process for translating the old syspref values into the new ones? 11:01 kados but every library upgrading would need to set up sysprefs from scratch (not a huge job) 11:00 kados well I would volunteer to find and change every syspref 11:00 hdl It is perlish TMTOWTDI 11:00 kados hehe 11:00 hdl There, you see, we have at least two different ways.