Time  Nick        Message
10:56 kados       PaulShannon: I gotta finish this email to koha-devel first
10:56 kados       PaulShannon: we'll get you a copy of 2.2.8 asap
10:54 PaulShannon Is someone putting 2.2.7 up on koha.org, or can I get a copy?
10:47 hdl         a pity TG will have to recommit his stuff
10:46 hdl         But I have rel_2_2_7
10:46 hdl         I didnot download the tarball.
10:44 kados       hdl: do you have a 'backup' of 2.2.8 we can throw up on koha.org?
10:44 PaulShannon 2.2.8. Haven't looked at it at all yet.
10:43 kados       PaulShannon: you looking to check out from CVS or download 2.2.8?
10:43 kados       paul_away: i will address that question in my email after a bit of research
10:41 paul        ok, guys, I leave again ;-)
10:41 paul        I may sound paranoiac, but I just want to be sure.
10:41 PaulShannon Is there a mirror somewhere?
10:41 paul        and ggl in this matter is just a forge.
10:41 paul        my only question is about ggl licence of the code. do they guarantee ggl code is JUST a code repo.
10:41 kados       PaulShannon: yea, email about that forthcoming to koha-devel
10:40 paul        OK to be counted in the "pro svn" team.
10:40 PaulShannon The download page at savannah looks like it is down. Anyone confirm?
10:40 paul        reading the little history...
10:35 kados       if someone wants to give an opinion they can
10:34 kados       I'm gonna write a email to alert that a decision will be made today
10:34 hdl         we could initiate the stuff for google then officlize when koha-devel community agrees. Couldn't we ?
10:33 kados       hehe
10:33 hdl         But I regret to fall back into american hands :D
10:33 hdl         what you told was quite sensible.
10:32 kados       or do you need more info?
10:32 kados       hdl: ok with google too?
10:32 kados       I'll write an email
10:32 kados       so I suppose we should also check with the koha-dev community :-)
10:31 kados       hdl too?
10:31 kados       paul, jmf, rch, chris agree that svn is OK
10:31 kados       ok, well where to go from here?
10:30 kados       hehe
10:29 kados       he likes repo histories
10:29 kados       I know chris would probably disagree with me there :-)
10:26 kados       I can't anticipate we'll need to roll back
10:26 kados       at this point
10:26 kados       personally, I don't think that matters much
10:26 kados       yea, we'd have to start over with our history
10:25 owen        http://endoframe.com/log/?p=23
10:25 owen        "While Google provides Subversion hosting, it doesn’t look like there’s currently a way to import the contents of an existing repository into it."
10:25 kados       looks like a balanced review
10:25 kados       http://www.infoq.com/news/Reviews-Mixed-on-Google-Hosting
10:25 kados       hehe
10:24 owen        Yeah, if paul gets in trouble for not doing the dishes his wife might not let him come play with us!
10:24 kados       hdl: yep, we could have backups
10:24 hdl         thx paul
10:24 kados       paul: ok, thanks
10:24 paul        (i can read & answer 1 or 2 questions in 20mn I think)
10:24 kados       owen: I mean koha worldmap
10:24 kados       owen: like the google worldmap
10:24 hdl         could we host and sync backups ?
10:24 paul        can I let you continue this speak & go back to dish cleaning ?
10:24 kados       owen: no, but I've used it for a few projects
10:23 owen        kados, have you Googled for feedback about Google's code hosting?
10:23 paul        ok, sounds good reasons.
10:23 hdl         :D
10:23 kados       sorry
10:23 kados       hehe, yea
10:23 hdl         s/savannah/subversion
10:22 kados       - google has real sysadmins to manage their savannah hosting platform
10:22 kados       - we are software developers, not sys admins :-)
10:22 kados       my thinking is:
10:22 paul        (on koha.org or koha-fr.org ?)
10:22 paul        so why not a private hosting ?
10:21 paul        good point. ggle can be considered as "stable" I bet.
10:21 kados       with google we know it will be fast, and maintained well
10:21 kados       paul: because in a year, I dn't want to have to say 'gna is slow ... or broken ... what will we do?'
10:20 hdl         https://gna.org/
10:20 paul        why not gna.org (like for opencataloger)
10:20 hdl         gna!
10:20 paul        kados : why choose ggl for svn hosting ?
10:20 hdl         There are svn forge though.
10:19 hdl         I have to re do all the diffs.
10:19 kados       but we don't have a CVS repo anymore :-)
10:19 kados       yea
10:19 paul        1 thing ++ for svn is the possibility to import CVS with most of the history afaik
10:18 kados       hdl: what kind of probs?
10:18 hdl         But I currently have problems with versions that I tweaked for clients and that I want to upgrade.
10:17 paul        it's as easy as cervesia for CVS
10:17 paul        hdl : very easy to use with kdesvn
10:17 hdl         Nope. I didnot test.
10:17 kados       hdl: do you hate svn? :-)
10:16 kados       anyway, can we arrive at a concensus about svn?
10:16 kados       and then when a branch is stable, merge it into the main trunk
10:16 kados       is better use of branching in svn
10:15 kados       what chris and I discussed
10:15 hdl         ppl coming on the project or ppl we would "coach" would learn CVS or any version control system.
10:15 kados       hdl: but if we move to git we will probably get no contribs :-)
10:14 paul        yes hdl, but I strongly think we need more "more devs" than a distributed tool.
10:14 hdl         User contribution is not so frequent with CVS widely spread.
10:13 paul        that's a definitive exclusion for me.
10:13 hdl         To my mind using a distributed version control would be useful.
10:13 paul        so, let's stay with a standard one.
10:13 kados       and it might prevent user contribution
10:13 kados       to understand 'distributed' version control
10:13 paul        I have no opinion about a distributed or not distributed tool.
10:13 kados       but probably too hard for most koha developers
10:13 kados       and we agreed that git is cool
10:12 kados       yes, chris and I discussed this yesterday
10:12 paul        hdl just tells me that chris is testing GIT
10:12 kados       yea, liblime uses svn internally, and we love it
10:12 rch         svn++
10:12 paul        & has some nice graphic tools under linux.
10:12 paul        OpenCataloger uses SVN, it's quite fun
10:12 paul        - we need to choose wisely & "definetly"
10:11 paul        - we need a tool that can attract developpers, or at least, not frighten them
10:11 paul        - we need a better tool
10:11 paul        yep, even if no definitive opinion.
10:09 kados       paul: any thoughts?
10:07 kados       google has subversion: http://code.google.com/hosting/
10:07 kados       sorry
10:07 kados       hehe
10:06 kados       with no splash page even saying why
10:06 kados       savannah has been down for two days
10:06 kados       thanks for coming
10:06 paul        hi kados
10:06 kados       hi paul
10:05 kados       I wonder if we shoould host at google
10:04 kados       hdl: I'm concerned that whoever runs savannah hasn't even bothered to put up a splash page saying 'we know we're down, and we're working on it'
10:04 kados       hdl: is paul available briefly?
10:03 kados       hdl: so what are we gonna do about CVS?
10:03 kados       your front page still owns though :-)
10:03 kados       hehe, yea :-
10:02 owen        ...and I notice you nicked NPL's featured search idea ;)
10:02 kados       rch: !
10:02 kados       thanks for noticing :-)
10:02 kados       hehe
10:02 owen        I noticed your Liblime OPAC demo has the same javascript error as SMFPL
10:02 kados       owen: what's up?
10:02 kados       hey guys
09:54 hdl         kados : yes
09:53 owen        kados, you around?
09:27 kados       :(
09:27 kados       hdl: savannah is still down for me
09:27 kados       hdl: are you there?
06:09 js          hi #koha
23:24 kaavik      I need to get back to work :-|
23:24 chris       np
23:24 kaavik      OK you guys, many thanks
23:22 kaavik      Na Naa, Na na na na na na naaaa ....
23:21 chris       http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/articles/2006/09/24/for-all-katamari-lovers
23:21 kaavik      haven't been into the console wars since I gave up my original NES
23:21 kaavik      well, too, I just bought mine a month ago
23:20 kaavik      I bought a PS2 just so I could play it
23:20 chris       ah yeah, everyone loves katamari
23:20 kaavik      katamari damacy
23:20 chris       hehe
23:20 kaavik      that would greatly amuse me, to check tools out using a PS2
23:20 chris       yeah i never use my ps2 anymore
23:20 kaavik      I have a PS2, and have considered getting a linux disc for it ...
23:19 kaavik      ROTFL
23:19 chris       :)
23:19 chris       why, i dont know
23:19 chris       i think someone got koha going on a playstation once
23:15 kaavik      chris: yeah. :-|
23:15 chris       which as a linux geek im sure you are aware of
23:15 kados       the searching in Koha is among the best in ILSes today
23:15 chris       its the problem FLOSS runs up against
23:15 kados       kaavik: check out the link for 'Koha ZOOM Opac'
23:14 kaavik      as a linux geek myself, I agree wholeheartedly
23:14 kados       kaavik: liblime.com/demos
23:14 kados       yea
23:14 chris       Koha isnt cheaper its better :-)
23:14 kaavik      I'll pass it along
23:14 kaavik      Dell server though -- that's promising
23:14 kados       right
23:13 kaavik      most of which are catalog only
23:13 kaavik      now, we have about 400 terminals all told
23:13 kaavik      not bad
23:12 kados       say an entry level dell server with 2 gig of ram or something
23:12 kados       most of the medium sized libraries running koha (with 10-15 terminals) run on very modest hardware
23:11 kaavik      but, 10-15 terminals, is you think the point at which they need to look at rack mounted servers to power it?
23:10 kaavik      'cuz we're rich, I guess ...
23:10 kaavik      us, we're using Sirsi / Dynix
23:10 kaavik      ...at another branch ;-P
23:10 kaavik      ...some patron just asked about "free circ. software'
23:10 kaavik      in the computer dept
23:10 kaavik      I work for the 'big library'
23:10 kados       right
23:09 kaavik      I don't know, being as I don't even know which school they're talking about
23:09 kados       more than say 15 or so?
23:09 kados       how many terminals do you plan on having active?
23:09 kaavik      and, I assume, how many terminals are active at once ...
23:09 kados       if you run version 2.2.8 and you have more than say, 100K records, you should consider better hardware
23:09 kaavik      hmm
23:08 kados       the big question is how many records you have
23:08 kados       I've got it running on a linux pda :-)
23:08 kados       you can run koha on anything
23:08 kaavik      ...will that cut it?
23:08 kados       hi kaavik
23:08 kaavik      I mean, if they make an old P60 boot, and it's their only circ terminal
23:07 kaavik      assuming they went with koha ...
23:07 kaavik      and I want to know, "how big a computer" is needed
23:07 kaavik      about putting some kind of electronic circulation system in place
23:06 kaavik      IOW, someone is trying to suggest to a local school
23:06 chris       im not sure i understand what you mean
23:06 chris       sorry?
23:06 kaavik      are there any pages on the web, that talk about computing power estimates?
17:23 kados       but that's probably not realistic :-)
17:22 kados       I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to have 40 billable hours per week out of all three of you :-)
15:10 kados       no idea
15:09 rch         is Shelf.pm an abandoned OO rewrite of virt. shelves?  or is BookShelves.pm a non-OO rewrite of Shelf?
15:05 kados       that I know of
15:05 kados       their only help channel is the website
15:05 rch         kados: any word from savannah?
15:00 kados       savannah--
12:54 kados       bbl
12:54 kados       lunch time
12:43 owen        Looks like they removed one chunk of the custom javascript but not all of it. They should take it all out.
12:40 kados       rch: you there?
12:40 owen        Yes, they've got NPL's custom javascript in their system preferences.
12:40 kados       maybe that's it
12:40 kados       just got that debug message
12:40 kados       prepareopaclogin is undefined
12:39 kados       maybe it's just on their site?
12:39 owen        Let me re-check.
12:39 kados       ahh, yea?
12:39 owen        I saw this the other day, kados
12:39 owen        Ah, SMFPL--yes
12:38 kados       sorry :-)
12:38 kados       and darrell from SMFPL reported it
12:38 kados       but I've seen it twice now
12:38 kados       I can't reproduce it
12:38 kados       weird
12:37 owen        Which version of IE?
12:37 kados       or at least all the search results pages
12:36 kados       all of them AFAIK
12:36 owen        Which page?
12:35 kados       owen: if you look at the NPL opac in IE there's a 'rendered but with errors' warning
12:35 kados       owen: now I've got a bug for you :-)
12:27 kados       ahh, ok
12:27 owen        ...at the time, that is. Now we've got the status working for us.
12:26 owen        Yes, because there was no good way to indicate to the users that a title was on order
12:26 kados       are the catalogers still putting in that text?
12:25 kados       owen: by the way, in a demo I did yesterday, some catalogers were wondering why we had ON ORDER printed in records
12:24 kados       owen: try it out in the opac and if you're satisfied, close that bug :-)
12:23 kados       success!
12:19 kados       once I get it right I'm gonna do a blog post on it :-)
12:18 owen        :)
11:52 kados       seems big to me :-)
11:52 owen        Thanks. I realize it's not a big thing.
11:51 kados       owen: I'll try that tonigth and report back
11:51 kados       in fact, I bet that's the prob
11:51 kados       rather than a string
11:50 kados       I might be able to fix it by doing it as a number index
11:50 kados       yea, it would seem so
11:47 owen        So it is a catalogging error, but it's also an error that it appears in the search results?
11:46 kados       maybe null==0 ?
11:44 kados       so I'm not sure why it's coming up ...
11:44 kados       there is no position 33 in that 008
11:43 kados       0=non fiction, 1=fiction
11:43 kados       it's position 33 in the 008
11:43 owen        I'm assuming it's a catalogging error
11:42 owen        I'm curious about the first result of this search: http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search?q=ccl=onorder:-1%20and%20(aud:e%20and%20fic:0)
11:42 kados       yea ...
11:41 owen        Off the subject, but what is the part of the MARC record that indicates whether the title is fiction or non-fiction?
11:40 kados       and our MARC editor is perhaps the weakest part of Koha currently
11:40 kados       but acqui could still use some attention
11:40 kados       with the new corp serials module out of NZ
11:40 kados       serials is getting there now
11:40 kados       hehe
11:39 owen        Yeah, me too :)
11:39 kados       and authorities too
11:39 kados       I know everyone had trouble with serials and acquisitions
11:39 kados       might be useful to look it over and glean any usability tips from it as well
11:39 kados       they all did reports on their experiences
11:39 kados       from the first koha with class class
11:39 kados       I also have a ton of feedback from her students sitting here
11:38 kados       hehe
11:38 kados       yea
11:38 owen        Oh, the usability report?
11:38 kados       inline help
11:38 kados       she mentioned that having help directly next to the items was the way to go
11:37 kados       did you see that report from diane neal?
11:37 rch         yes, those need to go away
11:37 owen        http://wiki.koha.org/?id=en:opachelp#
11:37 kados       yea
11:37 owen        They're leading to the Koha Wiki homepage, which isn't very helpful.
11:37 hdl         :(
11:37 owen        Speaking of borked, we need to talk about those help links in the OPAC.
11:36 kados       probably a prob with their database server
11:36 kados       looks like the whole site is borked
11:36 owen        Strange, I was on the site just over an hour ago and didn't see that error.
11:36 kados       must be a bad day at gnu.org
11:36 kados       Failed to connect to database. Invalid Group: that group does nto exist :-)
11:35 kados       interesting error:
11:35 kados       http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/koha
11:35 kados       savannah--
11:31 owen        cvs [update aborted]: cannot read /sources/koha/CVSROOT/val-tags: Input/output error"
11:31 owen        With my Windows CVS client I get "cvs update: warning: cannot open /sources/koha/CVSROOT/val-tags read/write: Read-only file system
11:30 kados       weird, it dies in the same place every time
11:30 kados       rch: are you able to check out anything from savannah?
11:29 kados       hehe
11:27 owen        Didn't someone try to kill James Bond with fatal signal 7?
11:26 kados       hdl: are you able to check out a fresh copy from CVS?
11:25 kados       about half way through
11:25 kados       Terminated with fatal signal 7!
11:25 kados       checks out a bunch of stuff then I get
11:25 kados       cvs -z3 -d:ext:kados@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha
11:25 rch         the web cvs was inaccessible this morning
11:24 kados       anyone else having trouble with savannah?
11:24 kados       man, cvs is really messed up
11:24 rch         btw, paul responded to that email.
11:23 hpassini    rigth ?
11:23 hpassini    the departement is the familly of items for example 'items for children' 'litterature' ...
11:22 hpassini    ok
11:20 kados       ok, I'm gonna change it to 'Institution' in english
11:20 rch         so a professional is equivalent to a child borrower, but the guarantor does not need to be a member,
11:20 hpassini    yes
11:19 kados       does structure mean 'place where professional person works'?
11:19 hpassini    yes
11:18 rch         i think both guarantor and structure use relation from systemprefs.
11:18 hpassini    ok it's right
11:18 hpassini    you mean relation and not garantor
11:16 kados       and options are father|mother
11:16 kados       it seems to be guarantor since it has a 'relation'
11:15 hpassini    no it's not
11:14 kados       or is it a guarantor?
11:13 kados       what is the 'Structure' section ... is that supposed to be 'Institution'?
11:12 owen        Good point rch... I wonder if I'm misremembering what we tried to set up?
11:11 hpassini    beacause we need differents information and differents issuing rules
11:10 hdl         He is different becaus he depends on an institution.
11:10 rch         yes, why is a professional borrower different than an adult borrower with different issuing rules?
11:10 owen        Probably didn't survive the last upgrade, I don't know.
11:10 owen        It did, but it was something Stephen hard-coded in a previous version.
11:10 hpassini    normaly only children need a guarantor
11:10 kados       it didn't work?
11:09 owen        Only instead of changing the limit on number of issues, we tried to alter the issuing period
11:09 kados       owen++
11:09 kados       hehe
11:09 owen        kados, that's a feature that we've tried to implement for NPL in the past
11:09 kados       hpassini: why would that be?
11:09 kados       hpassini: but they seem to need to have a guarantee?
11:09 rch         hi hpassini
11:09 kados       thanks
11:08 kados       so probably why I was confused in the first place :-)
11:08 kados       but we dont' have in the US
11:08 kados       yes
11:08 hpassini    is it clear for you or not ?
11:07 hpassini    it's borrowers like teacher for example who can issues more items than another borrower
11:07 kados       yea?
11:07 hpassini    about the professional borrowers
11:06 kados       ahh, ok, just ignore me then :-)
11:06 hpassini    no
11:06 hpassini    yes i'am
11:06 kados       did you change your nick?
11:05 kados       ahh, you're san op? :-)
11:05 kados       hi hpassini
11:05 kados       ?
11:05 hpassini    hi ! I'll try to answer to your questions !
11:02 kados       update systempreferences set X=X where X=X;
11:02 kados       just a bit of sql actually
11:02 kados       yea, that's true
11:01 owen        ...if they're direct analogues, that is.
11:01 owen        kados, couldn't you set up a process for translating the old syspref values into the new ones?
11:01 kados       but every library upgrading would need to set up sysprefs from scratch (not a huge job)
11:00 kados       well I would volunteer to find and change every syspref
11:00 hdl         It is perlish TMTOWTDI
11:00 kados       hehe
11:00 hdl         There, you see, we have at least two different ways.