IRC log for #koha, 2007-02-21

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:09 rch hey paul , hdl
13:09 hdl hi
13:09 dewey que tal, hdl
13:09 paul hey rch
13:09 rch morning :)
13:10 rch working on getting rel_3 installed
13:10 rch wondering firstly about sql defs
13:10 rch there's a phpmyadmin dump in installer/
13:10 rch but it has some errors
13:11 rch should that dump be authoritative db def?
13:11 hdl some errors in regards with mysql 5.0
13:11 hdl ?
13:11 rch i think firstly syntax on fkey constraints
13:12 rch (not mysql5 specific)
13:12 rch but, okay, i didn't test on 4.1
13:13 kados is there a way to make it compatible with both 5 and 4.1?
13:13 kados or do we need two sql schemas?
13:14 hdl kados : for db structure, i think there should be a way to have only one sql chema.
13:14 hdl I hope so.
13:15 rch yes, there is an fkey constraint problem for mysql5 also
13:15 rch but i'm not sure how to fix
13:15 kados hdl: so the dump in the installer/ dir should be considered authoritative?
13:15 rch but this should be the authoritative database structure, correct?
13:16 hdl Yes, it should.
13:16 hdl koha.mysql is old now.
13:16 kados rch: so you will work on making it work for 5.0?
13:16 kados hdl: any reason we can't just replace koha.mysql?
13:16 kados hdl: with the new authoritative version?
13:16 kados hdl: also, it seems your installer only works if Koha is installed already, is that right?
13:17 hdl 1 : No good reason.
13:17 hdl 2: yes.
13:17 hdl in some ways.
13:17 hdl In fact, with koha30
13:18 hdl installation is in two steps.
13:18 kados right
13:18 kados system and librarian
13:18 kados makes good sense
13:18 kados ok, a few more questions :-=)
13:18 kados what is 639-2norm.csv?
13:19 hdl it is the normalized languages.
13:19 hdl It is not used at the moment.
13:19 kados it's official iso file?
13:19 hdl But my point was to help the librarian build an authorised value list
13:20 hdl yes.
13:20 kados it seems we have two standards for describing languages: iso and MARC
13:20 kados
13:20 kados I think ISO is probably better, eh?
13:20 kados hdl: so what will become of 639-2norm.csv?
13:21 kados hdl: because in I see 'my %language=( 'list of hardcoded values' )
13:22 kados instead of drawing from the iso file
13:23 hdl %languages is based on koha different languages.
13:23 hdl could be drawn from iso languages.
13:24 kados so we have in fact three 'codes' for languages:
13:24 kados 1. MARC
13:24 kados 2. iso
13:24 kados 3. Koha
13:24 hdl But would change quite a lot of things.
13:24 kados maybe we should use iso for Koha?
13:24 hdl Koha uses : en for english, fr for french, ge for German, zh for Chinese.
13:25 kados in the iso file I see:
13:25 kados "eng","anglais","anglais","English","en"
13:25 hdl en is iso 639-1
13:25 hdl eng 639-2
13:26 kados what is anglais? french ?
13:26 hdl anglais is french term for english.
13:26 kados I see
13:27 kados on I tried to have:
13:28 kados 1. a code for language following MARC list of languages (maybe the same as iso 639-2)
13:28 kados 2. the language in the script of the language (e.g., 中文 for chinese)
13:28 kados 3. the english name of the language
13:29 kados do you think that's a good way to represent languages for Koha in other places a list appears?
13:30 kados for instance, in the 'language switch' and in the search language limit: http://search.athenscounty.lib[…]xpanded_options=1
13:30 kados also the installer
13:30 kados hdl: ?
13:30 hdl Could be.
13:31 hdl But !!!
13:31 hdl 1st : the language list in installer must match koha directory names.
13:32 hdl (I say language codes.)
13:32 kados agreed
13:32 kados so maybe we should switch to 639-2 for directory names?
13:32 hdl I am quite touchy at renaming base dirs.
13:33 hdl That could break Many things.
13:33 hdl I think it is not time to do so.
13:33 hdl too late or too early.
13:33 paul i'm here...
13:34 paul what's the question/problem ?
13:34 hdl see before.
13:34 hdl kados proposed changing en to eng
13:34 hdl fr to fre
13:35 kados I propose to simplify all lists of langauges
13:35 kados to use 639-2 (which is also the MARC codes for langauges, so could be used by searching too)
13:35 hdl So that we use only ISO 639-2 in or language lists.
13:35 kados
13:35 kados and
13:35 hdl But this changes directory basenames for templates.
13:36 kados yep
13:36 kados do we hardcode any dir names?
13:36 kados I don't think so
13:36 kados otherwise translations wouldn't work
13:37 hdl SANOP is in production time.
13:38 paul ok I understand the problem.
13:38 hdl and then cvs updates on templates would not be updated for them.
13:38 paul i'm ok with kados proposal as well as with hdl note.
13:38 kados paul: fence rider :-)
13:38 hdl :D
13:38 paul (even if SANOP situation is not the main problem I think)
13:39 hdl (it is only a visible part of an iceberg)
13:39 paul kados : what would this change improve ?
13:40 kados well, the change is not necessary I think
13:40 kados we can use both two letter and three letter codes
13:40 kados what I propose is to introduce a standard way to get a list of available languages
13:40 kados so we get:
13:40 kados 1. a language code (two or three letters)
13:41 kados 2. the language name in the languages script ( like 中文 for chinese)
13:41 kados 3. the English name of the language
13:41 kados and have all places in koha use the standard way to get lists
13:41 kados so we have:
13:41 kados 1. the installer
13:41 kados 2. search interface (for searching langauges)
13:42 kados 3. language switch
13:42 kados (for interfaces)
13:42 kados (in the case of the search interface, MARC21 uses 639-2, so that is one advantage to switching)
13:42 kados (stored in leader field IIRC)
13:43 kados so a simple with a few new functions?
13:44 hdl kados : thinking about it... It is more complicated.
13:44 kados getAllLanguages (for the whole list), getTranslatedLangauges (for just existing translations, with interface passed as argument)
13:45 hdl 3. should be description of the language in the chosen language.
13:45 hdl Say.
13:45 hdl I am using french interface
13:45 kados good point
13:46 hdl I want to see Perse and not persian.
13:46 kados yep
13:46 kados so we introduce a new file for translation
13:46 kados language_list.tmpl
13:47 hdl We should.
13:47 hdl But we can also take advantage of ISO639-2.
13:47 hdl It is translated already.
13:47 kados ahh, excellent
13:53 hdl[…]&client=firefox-a
13:53 hdl for deutsch
13:54 kados I'm writing a mail to koha-devel
13:54 kados summarizing our 'findings' :-)
13:54 hdl polski
13:54 hdl[…]j%C4%99zyk%C3%B3w
13:55 hdl I am sure wiktionary could be of great help.
13:55 hdl And there is a perl module interface to Wikipedia :D
13:55 hdl (I never used it)
13:57 rch hdl: can you take a look at the phpmyadmin export?
13:57 hdl is there a problem ?
13:57 rch in the ALTER TABLE ADD CONSTRAINT statements
13:58 rch partial statements are repeated.
13:59 hdl Delete the 1st ones.
13:59 hdl I hope it will solve the problems.
14:00 rch right, i edited so as not to give errors for mysql 4.1
14:07 kados hdl: mail sent to koha-devel, thanks for chatting about it
14:07 kados hdl: final question about installer system
14:08 kados hdl: Is it necessary? Can't we just use C4/
14:08 paul hehe... no, because relies on a mySQL table, that may not exist at this moment
14:09 paul (I already asked the question to hdl, thus my answer ;-) )
14:09 kados but can we instead modify to accomodate the installer?
14:09 kados I fear too many Auth modules will be hard to maintain
14:10 paul this one is a very simple & basic one if I don't mind. and only for the installer.
14:10 paul kados : do you have any plan(s) about a user manuel for koha 3 ?
14:10 kados re: installer, ok
14:10 kados re: user manual, just some ideas
14:11 kados ideal would be like the mysql docs
14:11 kados a version link, for each page
14:11 kados and user contributed text as notes at bottom of each page
14:11 kados also, ability to create a physical book
14:11 kados and to do translations of each page
14:12 kados I will investigate plone, to see if it's a good platform for this
14:12 kados it can do user contribs (comments) and languages
14:12 kados and perhaps with some modifs, versioning, and export to pdf for physical book
14:12 kados paul: do you have any ideas?
14:13 paul nope, but some ppl asked me if there is something to tranlaste to french...
14:13 kados ahh
14:14 kados so maybe another email to koha-devel asking about ideas for a platform for documentation?
14:14 paul kados++
14:30 kados paul: sent
14:31 kados paul: re: Koha 2.2.8 email to koha-Infos
14:32 kados paul: I have some reservations about a 3.0 SQL version of Koha
14:32 kados paul: for one, it will be very complicated to maintain
14:32 kados paul: since we will need to have code for zebra and non-zebra
14:33 kados paul: and like with unimarc vs usmarc, it could be challenging to make sure both are working
14:35 paul so, how do you plan to do with small libraries ?
14:36 kados and imporve the API, etc., over time
14:36 paul it will be more complex imho
14:38 paul_away bye world, see you tomorrow
14:41 kados bye paul
17:43 thd kados: are you there?
20:04 kados thd_away: ping
22:10 kados thd_away: you around?
23:11 thd kados: I am back
23:34 kados thd: hi
23:34 dewey niihau, kados
23:34 thd nihau?
23:36 thd kados: had you spoken to stephen about the wiki/documentation recently?
23:37 kados not recently
00:32 thd found it
00:32 thd kados: are you still there?
07:34 Lea hi there! :D
07:35 js hi Lea
07:35 Lea how are you?
07:40 js i m fine with the sun thx :) and you ?
07:48 Lea yeah good thanks! Had a productive day with Koha yesterday. Think I'm pretty much on top of it now. Will be migrating 3 libraries to it and adding 2 new branches.
07:48 js cool :))

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