| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 12:16 |
|
kados |
sorry ... booth is getting busy |
| 12:17 |
|
kados |
well I tried out the acqui system this morning |
| 12:17 |
|
kados |
I attempted to create an order |
| 12:17 |
|
kados |
and to recieve |
| 12:17 |
|
kados |
and it just didn't work :) |
| 12:17 |
|
kados |
let me bring up the test |
| 12:18 |
|
kados |
ok |
| 12:18 |
|
kados |
so first off ... the 'created by' doesn't work |
| 12:18 |
|
kados |
I think, at least according to the directions, in order to create a basket, you hav to enter a name |
| 12:18 |
|
kados |
which should show up in 'created by' |
| 12:19 |
|
kados |
when I recieve |
| 12:19 |
|
kados |
it generates a receipt |
| 12:19 |
|
kados |
but it doesn't have the 'recieved by' or 'date' |
| 12:19 |
|
kados |
and it says '0 bibliographic records recieved) |
| 12:19 |
|
kados |
and doesn't show up in the order history |
| 12:20 |
|
kados |
(I always get '0 orders foudn') |
| 12:41 |
|
kados |
owen: is that enough or do you need more details? |
| 12:42 |
|
owen |
So first you created a supplier, then you created a new basket for that supplier... |
| 12:42 |
|
owen |
I know that several items are blank on the "New Shopping Basket for..." page (basket.pl) |
| 12:46 |
|
owen |
...but that's the same with the default templates as well |
| 12:48 |
|
kados |
owen: maybe we need to file a 'blocker' bug report to get paul's attention |
| 12:49 |
|
owen |
But what's the next stage where you see a problem? |
| 13:18 |
|
thd |
kados: are you there? |
| 13:36 |
|
kados |
thd: intermittently |
| 13:36 |
|
thd |
kados: how have you observations of other systems been going? |
| 13:38 |
|
kados |
thd: the only thing sirsidynix has is 'rooms' |
| 13:38 |
|
kados |
thd: which is just a way to organize subjects togther |
| 13:38 |
|
kados |
thd: with a fancy name :-) |
| 13:38 |
|
kados |
thd: nobody else seems to be doing anything new, they're mainly selling old technology |
| 13:38 |
|
thd |
kados: Koha has far and away the best record editor and will have the best search system. |
| 13:38 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 13:39 |
|
thd |
kados: However, there is one thing other systems might have for record editing |
| 13:39 |
|
thd |
kados: see if you can find anyone doing anything interesting with adding or managing holdings information for records. |
| 13:40 |
|
thd |
kados: especially serials, and built in automated cuttering. |
| 13:42 |
|
thd |
kados: there is a bug in the 008 plugin but I will tell you about that later. |
| 13:46 |
|
thd |
kados: I know other big systems are very unlikely to have interesting record editors except possibly for the issue of holdings. So look at what people may be doing with holdings. |
| 13:49 |
|
thd |
kados: Interesting holdings management probably does not use the record editor interface on other systems, as other systems would lack a general plugin model but with a special holdings interface other systems might have something.. |
| 13:50 |
|
tumer |
hi everybody |
| 13:50 |
|
thd |
hellos tumer is that really you? |
| 13:50 |
|
tumer |
yes live and kicking |
| 13:50 |
|
thd |
tumer: If you read the logs you may note that Kados has fixed the record editor. |
| 13:51 |
|
tumer |
i did not see any commits ??? |
| 13:51 |
|
tumer |
is kados around? |
| 13:52 |
|
thd |
tumer: unfortunately, pauls fixes had not been well tested and reverted to some old problems along with new ones. |
| 13:52 |
|
thd |
tumer: kados is here but he is busy with the ALA convention so that he has not had time to commit |
| 13:52 |
|
tumer |
i realized that i am staying with the old editor anyway |
| 13:53 |
|
thd |
tumer: the old editor is safer, the new one has hidden bugs waiting to bite |
| 13:55 |
|
thd |
tumer: I am editing records on a client system for kados and have seen no real problems except for a bug in the 008 plugin. |
| 13:55 |
|
tumer |
thd: the authorities does not fill the multiple subfields either |
| 13:56 |
|
thd |
tumer: there has been no work on the authorities record editor |
| 13:56 |
|
tumer |
ie. the 150x authority may have multiple x's but only one gets transfred to the marc record in edittor |
| 13:57 |
|
thd |
tumer: kados was going to fix the authorities editor after everything was working in the bibliographic record editor. |
| 13:58 |
|
tumer |
the bug in 008? what dowes it do |
| 13:58 |
|
thd |
tumer: the authorities record editor has very large bugs that will eat authorities records. |
| 13:59 |
|
thd |
tumer: you probably have 2 bugs in your 008 plugin |
| 13:59 |
|
tumer |
i dont use it anyway |
| 14:00 |
|
thd |
tumer: the older bug would forget the type of date in some circumstances |
| 14:02 |
|
thd |
tumer: the older bug is fixed in head but one that I have just noticed loses the date of record creation if blank and shifts all positions six places to the left |
| 14:03 |
|
tumer |
very bad indeed |
| 14:04 |
|
thd |
tumer: 008 is a fixed field so if the places are shifted the field is invalid but it is very identifiable correctable in records in which it may have occurred |
| 14:07 |
|
thd |
tumer: if the first position in an 008 is not digit either no record creation date information was encoded or the record has been affected by this bug. |
| 14:08 |
|
thd |
s/record/008/ |
| 14:23 |
|
kados |
hi guys |
| 14:23 |
|
kados |
hey tumer |
| 14:23 |
|
tumer |
hi kados |
| 14:23 |
|
kados |
I'm in and out today ... ALA conference |
| 14:24 |
|
kados |
tumer: did you manage to get M::F::X working for you? |
| 14:24 |
|
tumer |
which day are you free? |
| 14:24 |
|
kados |
I can make some time in a few hours |
| 14:24 |
|
kados |
if you need to chat |
| 14:24 |
|
kados |
evenings are pretty good |
| 14:24 |
|
kados |
otherwise, I don't get back until the 28th |
| 14:25 |
|
tumer |
probably have to problems with MFX persisssssst |
| 14:26 |
|
kados |
bummer |
| 14:26 |
|
kados |
so ... |
| 14:26 |
|
tumer |
i am modifying everything very deeply so we may as well discuss at one point |
| 14:26 |
|
kados |
1. you're using libxml2 and XML::LibXML (versions that don't conflict, you ready the XML::LibXML README?) |
| 14:27 |
|
kados |
2. you are working with true UTF-8 records with utf-8 encoding (not just claiming to be utf8) |
| 14:27 |
|
kados |
? |
| 14:27 |
|
tumer |
most of editor problems problems appear with MFX and nothing else |
| 14:27 |
|
tumer |
kados: i use correct versions |
| 14:27 |
|
tumer |
the problem is non conflicting versions are very old |
| 14:28 |
|
tumer |
its almost impossible for me to go that back with libxml2 |
| 14:28 |
|
tumer |
otherwise everything else may break down on the server including zebra |
| 14:29 |
|
kados |
unless you are using explicitally 'compatible' versions of the two, as specified in the README, I'm sure you're going to have problems |
| 14:29 |
|
kados |
can't you do some tests on your laptop? |
| 14:29 |
|
tumer |
i have tried every combination of compatibles |
| 14:30 |
|
tumer |
converting to and back from MARC8 to UTF8 works very well |
| 14:30 |
|
kados |
so where do the problems come in? |
| 14:31 |
|
tumer |
but perl decides to show unencoded characters on the screen ie in templates |
| 14:32 |
|
kados |
hmmm |
| 14:32 |
|
tumer |
anything coming from keyboard or in the template gets mingled while anything from db or zebra is correct |
| 14:32 |
|
kados |
is that the only bug? |
| 14:32 |
|
kados |
can you send me some example records so I can test on my system? |
| 14:32 |
|
kados |
ones that you're having probs with? |
| 14:32 |
|
tumer |
i'll put some on my server |
| 14:32 |
|
kados |
thx |
| 14:33 |
|
kados |
ping me with the url when they're there |
| 14:33 |
|
tumer |
ok |
| 14:34 |
|
tumer |
the other problem is characters stay combined when converted from MARC8 |
| 14:35 |
|
tumer |
they display correctly but i cannot find them in zebra |
| 14:35 |
|
tumer |
my keyboard does not produce combined chars is that the problem? |
| 14:37 |
|
thd |
tumer: your keyboard will not produce the correct characters unle4ss you have a UTF -8 environment |
| 14:38 |
|
tumer |
thd:not exactly |
| 14:38 |
|
tumer |
the problem is having 2 different definitions for chars in utf8 |
| 14:39 |
|
thd |
tumer: MS Windows is never a UTF-8 environment as far as I know but some language sets for character creation or special applications may output UTF-8 |
| 14:40 |
|
tumer |
ç is a utf8 character with an x00x00 (cant remember) hex code in utf8 |
| 14:40 |
|
thd |
tumer: do you mean there a multiple Unicode encodings for the same Turkish character? |
| 14:40 |
|
tumer |
the same character is also c and a cedilla combined together |
| 14:41 |
|
tumer |
they look exactly the same |
| 14:41 |
|
tumer |
but to delete the last one you have to hit backspace twice |
| 14:42 |
|
tumer |
this is how windows is behaving |
| 14:42 |
|
tumer |
so in utf8 we have precomposed and uncomposed characters |
| 14:42 |
|
thd |
tumer: I do not know the case of Turkish but I have read that Unicode does have multiple encodings for some characters in some languages. |
| 14:43 |
|
tumer |
this is the same for all acented characters Turkish or not |
| 14:43 |
|
thd |
tumer: what does precomposed and uncomposed mean? |
| 14:44 |
|
tumer |
i dont even know whether the terminology is right either |
| 14:45 |
|
tumer |
i read about this problem at indexdata YAZ logs |
| 14:45 |
|
thd |
tumer: Is that where the terminology is from? |
| 14:45 |
|
tumer |
and now i have the same problem |
| 14:45 |
|
tumer |
yes there i saw this terminology |
| 14:47 |
|
thd |
tumer: I think I will have to Google now for precomposed and uncomposed to understand the problem that you are expressing |
| 14:58 |
|
thd |
tumer: I know the familiar concept that precomposed means now but I had not seen the terminology with enough frequency |
| 14:58 |
|
thd |
tumer: I have not found a definition for uncomposed |
| 14:59 |
|
thd |
tumer: how do you mean uncomposed? |
| 15:01 |
|
tumer |
thd: there is no terminology as uncomposed i used it for reverese of precomposed. meaning not combined together |
| 15:02 |
|
kados |
tumer: re-indexing with your records now |
| 15:02 |
|
kados |
tumer: it'll be a few minutes |
| 15:03 |
|
kados |
tumer: I'll let you know as soon as it's done |
| 15:03 |
|
thd |
tumer: uncomposed is in a Unicode paper but the server with the paper is not responding |
| 15:03 |
|
tumer |
if characters come out right search the words with those chars |
| 15:05 |
|
thd |
tumer: precomposed characters are characters used to combine two or more standard characters to create a special character. |
| 15:08 |
|
thd |
tumer: MARC-8 use and other ISO library character encodings use precomposition for most Latin languages with an ASCII character and an ASCII modifier to form an accented Latin character. |
| 15:09 |
|
tumer |
thd: yes i know and MFX converts them and keeps them like that on my machine |
| 15:10 |
|
thd |
tumer: Do you mean that after M::F::X conversion they are the same? |
| 15:10 |
|
tumer |
by the way it may be normal. But i need a routine to combine them to thair single character form in utf8 |
| 15:11 |
|
tumer |
thd:no they are converted correctly to utf8 precomposed format |
| 15:11 |
|
tumer |
thd i need to compse them |
| 15:12 |
|
thd |
tumer: Is your problem only about searching or also how the characters are encoded in the records? |
| 15:12 |
|
thd |
s/searching/composing characters for searching/ |
| 15:12 |
|
tumer |
about searching |
| 15:13 |
|
thd |
tumer: so your records are fine then? |
| 15:14 |
|
tumer |
thd: they look fine but not the same to what i can produce with the marc editor |
| 15:14 |
|
tumer |
http://library.neu.edu.tr/testrecords |
| 15:15 |
|
tumer |
thd:try these http://library.neu.edu.tr/testrecords |
| 15:15 |
|
tumer |
they are from LC |
| 15:15 |
|
thd |
tumer: composing characters for searching will require a layer of code to process the input from whatever the user has input into the search form and convert the input from whatever it starts as to UTF-8. |
| 15:16 |
|
thd |
tumer: composing characters for the record editor is another problem. |
| 15:16 |
|
tumer |
thd:is this correct for everybody or for windows people i wonder |
| 15:17 |
|
thd |
tumer: if you are attempting to create characters for the record editor that may be a problem for MS-Windows unless there is some way in the latest version to switch to UTF-8 mode. |
| 15:20 |
|
thd |
tumer: Maybe it is merely more complex to test the input encoding for the record editor. |
| 15:20 |
|
thd |
tumer: Newly created records would be an easier case where the input encoding could well be tested. |
| 15:21 |
|
tumer |
thd:i have to attend the server - be back |
| 15:44 |
|
kados |
tumer[A]: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ |
| 15:44 |
|
dewey |
hmmm... http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ is working now wher do i look |
| 15:44 |
|
kados |
tumer[A]: give it a try |
| 15:45 |
|
tumer[A] |
ok |
| 15:47 |
|
tumer |
kados:http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ is not available |
| 15:47 |
|
tumer |
points to some local IP |
| 15:48 |
|
chris |
http://66.213.78.100/ how bout that then tumer? |
| 15:49 |
|
tumer |
hi chris |
| 15:50 |
|
tumer |
searhing in simple mode crashes |
| 15:50 |
|
tumer |
searching in power does not find it |
| 19:08 |
|
thd |
kados: what happened with tumer's record searching problem? |
| 02:05 |
|
btoumi |
hi all |
| 02:16 |
|
Strait |
morning :) |
| 02:18 |
|
btoumi |
hi strait |
| 02:18 |
|
btoumi |
:paul are u around |
| 02:18 |
|
btoumi |
? |
| 02:18 |
|
paul |
yep. hello everybody |
| 02:18 |
|
btoumi |
hi :paul |
| 02:20 |
|
hdl |
hello |
| 02:23 |
|
ToinS |
salut tous ! |
| 02:23 |
|
btoumi |
do u remember last time i ask u for a field (null or not) i have the same problem title,phone and i do the same |
| 02:23 |
|
btoumi |
salut toins |
| 02:23 |
|
paul |
btoumi: yep. |
| 02:23 |
|
btoumi |
is it ok? |
| 02:24 |
|
btoumi |
ok thanks |
| 02:26 |
|
btoumi_away |
i commit updatabase today |
| 02:33 |
|
paul |
plein de francais ce matin ... |
| 02:33 |
|
osmoze |
hello |
| 03:28 |
|
Strait |
bugger |
| 03:29 |
|
Strait |
Z39.50 broke down :( |
| 03:29 |
|
Strait |
doesn't work with my translated templates |
| 03:32 |
|
Strait |
hmm, it doesn't work properly with english npl templates either |
| 03:32 |
|
Strait |
with default templates it works |
| 03:34 |
|
paul |
then you should bug owen. |
| 03:34 |
|
paul |
(hello Strait |
| 03:34 |
|
paul |
) |
| 03:35 |
|
Strait |
hi paul :) |
| 03:36 |
|
Strait |
owen? |
| 03:36 |
|
dewey |
somebody said owen was hardly ever in direct contact with kados. We communicate here. |
| 03:36 |
|
paul |
owen is the npl templates designer |
| 03:36 |
|
Strait |
there are some other bugs in them too |
| 03:37 |
|
Strait |
i've managed to fix some of them |
| 03:37 |
|
Strait |
but some of them beat me |
| 03:55 |
|
Strait |
where can i reach this owen person? |
| 03:55 |
|
Strait |
it would be nice to talk to him |
| 03:55 |
|
Strait |
and i have some fixes for his templates too, like i said |
| 03:56 |
|
paul |
Strait: owen is from US, and usually appears on the chanel in US morning |
| 03:56 |
|
paul |
(you're from finland isn't it ?) |
| 04:04 |
|
Strait |
yep |
| 04:04 |
|
Strait |
so it's in the middle of the night for me :D |
| 04:04 |
|
Strait |
or something |
| 04:04 |
|
dewey |
rumour has it something is not recognising the value actually in the leader |
| 04:04 |
|
paul |
so owen should arrive in 6/7 hours |
| 04:05 |
|
paul |
kidding dewey ;-D |
| 04:05 |
|
Strait |
ah, ok |
| 04:05 |
|
Strait |
that's not the middle of the night then |
| 04:05 |
|
paul |
not really. owen & kados are in Ohio, so east US |
| 04:06 |
|
Strait |
ok, i'll try to meet him later then |
| 04:06 |
|
Strait |
i could use the default templates for now since z39.50 works in them |
| 04:07 |
|
Strait |
the problem is that it's next to impossible to fit finnish words in them |
| 04:07 |
|
Strait |
although finnish versions do exist |
| 04:08 |
|
Strait |
they speak very bad finnish ;) |
| 04:57 |
|
Rachel |
it's busy today in #koha |
| 04:57 |
|
paul |
hi Rachel |
| 04:59 |
|
rach |
hi paul, are you all recovered from the conference? |
| 04:59 |
|
paul |
you mean the devWeek ? |
| 04:59 |
|
paul |
of, fortunatly ! |
| 04:59 |
|
paul |
my main concern atm, is my personal move (next saturday) |
| 04:59 |
|
rach |
yes |
| 04:59 |
|
rach |
are you moving house? |
| 05:01 |
|
paul |
yep |
| 05:01 |
|
paul |
from marseille to marseille. |
| 05:01 |
|
paul |
but from 80m2 to 120m2 |
| 05:02 |
|
rach |
wow you have 3 boys don't you? I bet you'll appreciate the extra room :-) |
| 05:03 |
|
osmoze |
paul, au fait, les videos sont dispo quelque part ? |
| 05:03 |
|
osmoze |
de la kohaconf |
| 05:04 |
|
paul |
osmoze: ask rach ! |
| 05:04 |
|
osmoze |
rach, is it possible to download the kohaconf video ? |
| 05:05 |
|
rach |
yes I would think so |
| 05:05 |
|
chris |
? |
| 05:05 |
|
chris |
i dont think so yet |
| 05:05 |
|
osmoze |
hi chris :) |
| 05:05 |
|
chris |
russ hasnt converted it |
| 05:06 |
|
chris |
its still on the dvd's as far as i know, i can hurry him up for ya |
| 05:06 |
|
chris |
hi osmoze :) |
| 05:06 |
|
rach |
sorry osmoze I misinterpreted that |
| 05:07 |
|
osmoze |
it's nothing rach :) it's my bad english ^^ |
| 05:07 |
|
rach |
ah no, I had about 3 hrs sleep last night and i'm not wearing my glasses :-) |
| 05:07 |
|
osmoze |
chris, if he want, after my hollidays, i can do the conversion |
| 05:08 |
|
osmoze |
lol, that why i don't have children at this moment :) |
| 05:08 |
|
chris |
ahh cool, ill tell him that |
| 05:08 |
|
osmoze |
ok, i ll be back on 20th july |
| 05:08 |
|
paul |
chris: remember we have long holidays in France ;-) |
| 05:09 |
|
osmoze |
long ? 2 week only ^^ |
| 05:09 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 05:09 |
|
osmoze |
so, go to lunch |
| 05:10 |
|
rach |
much better for you than eating a pie at your keyboard |
| 05:19 |
|
rach |
have a good day |
| 05:19 |
|
paul |
bye rach |
| 05:19 |
|
chris |
paul, will france beat spain? |
| 05:20 |
|
paul |
that's a good question... |
| 05:20 |
|
paul |
I hope yes, of course. |
| 05:20 |
|
chris |
brazil 3 - ghana 1 |
| 05:20 |
|
chris |
france 2 - spain 1 |
| 05:20 |
|
paul |
sounds ok to me ;-) |
| 05:20 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 06:29 |
|
osmoze |
france 1 - spain 1 |
| 06:29 |
|
osmoze |
brazil 3 - ghana 0 |
| 07:03 |
|
btoumi_away |
france 0 espagne 1 |
| 07:05 |
|
osmoze |
t es defaitiste btoumi |
| 07:08 |
|
btoumi_away |
non mais avec les match q'a fait la france je vois plus ca et en plus l'equipe d'espagne n'est pas mauvaise c pas le togo |
| 07:08 |
|
paul |
pour ma part, je ne ferai jamais de pronostic, c'est par trop imprévisible le foot ! |
| 07:08 |
|
btoumi_away |
c clair aussi |
| 07:08 |
|
paul |
btoumi_away: pas faux, mais en même temps, 1 but c'est si vite marqué ! |
| 07:09 |
|
paul |
et puis vu l'arbitrage jusqu'à maintenant, ca introduit une incertitude supplémentaire ;-) |
| 07:09 |
|
btoumi_away |
clair |
| 07:09 |
|
btoumi_away |
c beaucopup plus stricte qu'avant c sur |
| 07:09 |
|
paul |
+ strict ? |
| 07:10 |
|
btoumi_away |
l'arbitrage |
| 07:10 |
|
paul |
je dirai surtout que c'est une vraie faillite l'arbitrage ! |
| 07:10 |
|
paul |
cartons à gogo injustifiés, buts refusés, pénalties imaginaire |
| 07:10 |
|
btoumi_away |
non mais y a des nouvelles regles |
| 07:10 |
|
btoumi_away |
du coup pluie de carton jaune |
| 07:11 |
|
btoumi_away |
peut etre in peu trop a mon gout |
| 07:13 |
|
ToinS |
vive l'arbritrage vidéo ! |
| 07:13 |
|
btoumi_away |
de ctoute facon je pense que la france sera pas en finale |
| 07:13 |
|
ToinS |
et même plus l'arbritrage informatisé.... |
| 07:13 |
|
btoumi_away |
et oui la video c bien mais platini veut pas |
| 07:14 |
|
paul |
oui, mais être élminé en 1/4 contre le brésil, ca la fout - mal qu'ne 8° contre l'espagne ! |
| 07:14 |
|
btoumi_away |
c juste un match de plus |
| 07:14 |
|
btoumi_away |
;=) |
| 07:15 |
|
btoumi_away |
en tous c toujours mieux qu'il y a quatre ans |
| 07:20 |
|
btoumi_away |
hi dewey |
| 07:20 |
|
dewey |
niihau, btoumi_away |
| 07:22 |
|
btoumi_away |
niihau? |
| 07:23 |
|
hdl |
bonjour en japonais. |
| 07:24 |
|
hdl |
niihau mai. |
| 07:27 |
|
ToinS |
dewey parle japonnais ? |
| 07:27 |
|
dewey |
toins: no idea |
| 08:11 |
|
thd |
tumer[A]: are you there? |
| 08:58 |
|
slef |
hi all. I've been told 'Library Trends' attributed koha to Australia. Anyone get that and/or anyone else want to correct it? |
| 10:05 |
|
paul |
hello owen. |
| 10:05 |
|
paul |
I was speaking with Strait this morning. |
| 10:05 |
|
owen |
Hi paul |
| 10:06 |
|
paul |
he finds some bugs in npl templates, and wanted to report them. |
| 10:06 |
|
owen |
Yes, I saw something in the logs yesterday |
| 10:06 |
|
owen |
Is Strait here now? |
| 10:06 |
|
paul |
i suggested to come here in our european afternoon |
| 10:06 |
|
paul |
he should come back i think |
| 10:08 |
|
owen |
paul, you didn't by any chance hear anything from kados about full acquisitions did you? |
| 10:08 |
|
paul |
no, I didn't |
| 10:08 |
|
paul |
I just hear that he founded some problems, but I don't know which one |
| 10:09 |
|
kados |
hi guys |
| 10:09 |
|
kados |
paul: do you have a 'empty' rel_2_2 install? |
| 10:10 |
|
paul |
hi kados. |
| 10:10 |
|
kados |
paul: try to create a vendor, and an order, and a basket |
| 10:10 |
|
kados |
lots of information doesn't show up in the templates |
| 10:10 |
|
kados |
like who created it |
| 10:10 |
|
kados |
and when you try to recieve an order |
| 10:10 |
|
kados |
(/me wishes) |
| 10:10 |
|
paul |
"booth babes" ??? |
| 10:11 |
|
tumer |
kados:have you indexed my records? your search does not find them |
| 10:12 |
|
kados |
tumer: they didn't index because they don't have 090 :-) |
| 10:12 |
|
kados |
tumer: I need to write a script to add a 090 before I can index them |
| 10:12 |
|
kados |
paul: when you try to recieve an order, it won't recieve it |
| 10:12 |
|
tumer |
they are straight from LC i'll add 090 for them |
| 10:13 |
|
kados |
paul: it never shows up in the order history |
| 10:13 |
|
kados |
tumer: ok ... |
| 10:13 |
|
paul |
ok, i'll investigate, but that will be after my move |
| 10:13 |
|
kados |
ok, no prob :-) |
| 10:15 |
|
slef |
I heard ALA has right-wing nutjobs defending the war in Iraq |
| 10:17 |
|
kados |
slef: you would have heard that :-) |
| 10:17 |
|
kados |
slef: i haven't seen it :-) |
| 10:18 |
|
paul |
a quick question to everybody reading the channel |
| 10:18 |
|
tumer |
kados:you mat have them at http://library.neu.edu.tr/testrecords |
| 10:18 |
|
paul |
i've been contacted by a computer paper ("programmation linux" = "linux programming"). They want me to write a paper, something like 20/25 pages. |
| 10:19 |
|
paul |
it will be : |
| 10:19 |
|
paul |
- very poorly paid (25¤/page) |
| 10:19 |
|
paul |
- forbidden to publish it on koha-fr.org website |
| 10:19 |
|
paul |
- to be done quickly. |
| 10:19 |
|
paul |
i answered that "quickly" was impossible due to my move. they agreed. |
| 10:20 |
|
osmoze |
paul , write a paper about ? |
| 10:20 |
|
paul |
I answered that the licence was impossible for me, i want to publish it on koha-fr.org, even if it's 3 months after physical publication |
| 10:20 |
|
paul |
oups... |
| 10:20 |
|
paul |
it's a paper about "how koha developpement is organised" |
| 10:21 |
|
paul |
(strategic & technically. From Release Manager to Perl coding lines) |
| 10:21 |
|
paul |
my question : do you think it's ! |
| 10:21 |
|
paul |
important or not to write in such papers ? |
| 10:21 |
|
paul |
i'm not sure. pierrick says "definetly yes" |
| 10:21 |
|
kados |
tumer: zoomopac.liblime.com ... imported turkish stuff |
| 10:22 |
|
kados |
paul: it would be in French? |
| 10:22 |
|
osmoze |
forbidden to publish it on koha-fr.org website <-- it's not really open ^^ and don't follow idea of koha community |
| 10:22 |
|
paul |
yep. |
| 10:22 |
|
kados |
paul: and available online? |
| 10:22 |
|
paul |
I don't think so |
| 10:22 |
|
kados |
paul: I think they _must_ license it under creative commons or something similar |
| 10:22 |
|
kados |
paul: otherwise, it doesn't make sense |
| 10:22 |
|
paul |
until 3 months after physical publication, where I could publish it myself |
| 10:23 |
|
paul |
that's what I think too. |
| 10:23 |
|
paul |
but it seems it's not what they do usually |
| 10:23 |
|
kados |
tumer: the characters seem to be OK on my system ... do they look OK to you? |
| 10:25 |
|
tumer |
kados: the problem persists and this paul should see too. I'll explain |
| 10:25 |
|
paul |
what could I see tumer ? |
| 10:26 |
|
tumer |
kados:the characters displays correctly |
| 10:26 |
|
paul |
note to everybody : ToinS started working on koha head to do 1 month of code cleaning. We have updated the wiki (coding guidelines & added a page about code cleaning) |
| 10:26 |
|
tumer |
try to search for örneklerle which displays corerctly |
| 10:26 |
|
paul |
feel free to make some suggestions |
| 10:27 |
|
tumer |
you will not find it |
| 10:27 |
|
tumer |
because the character ö is not one character but 2 |
| 10:28 |
|
tumer |
also if you copy and paste it in your search on the screen it turns into funny characters |
| 10:29 |
|
tumer |
kados: can you see this record? |
| 10:31 |
|
tumer |
paul:the problem is marc8 to utf8 conversion. I just remembered UniMARC does not use marc8, sorry |
| 10:31 |
|
paul |
kados : a quick question about ToinS goals : do you think we should synch rel_2_2 and head before he start working on code cleaning ? |
| 10:32 |
|
paul |
I think yes |
| 10:32 |
|
paul |
and you also will have to synch dev_week & head, although he won't work on catalogue stuff until some weeks |
| 10:33 |
|
tumer |
paul:dev_week biblio.pm is very differnt to head |
| 10:33 |
|
paul |
yes, I know, but we will have to synch them one day ! |
| 10:33 |
|
tumer |
paul:have to decide which to keep |
| 10:33 |
|
paul |
dev_week, definetly ! |
| 10:34 |
|
thd |
tumer: can you search your records successfully using terms with ASCII characters only or by copying text from a found record even if it looks odd?? |
| 10:34 |
|
thd |
paul: 'booth babes' are attractive women intended to lure convention attendants to what is on offer at a particular booth. They are usually not a proper part of the sales team but merely an extra advertisement at the convention itself. |
| 10:35 |
|
tumer |
thd:no i cannot. I have to copy the term from the record |
| 10:35 |
|
tumer |
search for yasa at zoomopac.liblime com |
| 10:36 |
|
thd |
paul: papers published in recognised journals are important to establish credibility for Koha. |
| 10:36 |
|
tumer |
then try to search the record with the accented characters that you see |
| 10:37 |
|
owen |
kados: should a z3950 be working on 101? |
| 10:38 |
|
tumer |
owen:official port for Z39.50 is 212 and for zebra is 346 althogh you may use any free port |
| 10:39 |
|
owen |
Sorry tumer, by 101 I'm referring to the IP address of one of NPL's servers |
| 10:39 |
|
tumer |
oh sorry |
| 10:40 |
|
tumer |
owen:do you use much marc8 to utf8 conversion there? |
| 10:40 |
|
owen |
No idea. |
| 10:42 |
|
thd |
tumer: so if it works when copying the text as displayed with the record then the problem is manageable |
| 10:42 |
|
tumer |
thd:no it does not help |
| 10:43 |
|
tumer |
do a search with term "yasa" and get this record. Copy any accented term and paste it into search |
| 10:44 |
|
thd |
tumer: as I actually wrote many months ago in discussing this very issue in this same place we will need a layer of code to translate the encoding of queries from ISO-8859 to UTF-8 |
| 10:44 |
|
thd |
tumer: when I copied an accented term it worked fine for me. |
| 10:45 |
|
tumer |
thd:does the term display correctly on the search results? |
| 10:45 |
|
thd |
tumer: does it not work on your system. |
| 10:45 |
|
tumer |
where it says you searched for? |
| 10:46 |
|
thd |
tumer: no but the reason is font problem that I never fixed after spending a weekend exploring it. |
| 10:46 |
|
tumer |
its not a font problem. It destroys rest of my page which contains those characters as well |
| 10:47 |
|
thd |
tumer, owen: the fonts in all templates give priority for fonts which produce gibberish when confronted with accented characters in UTF-8. |
| 10:48 |
|
kados |
owen: not sure about 101 ... definitely on 100 port 9900 |
| 10:48 |
|
tumer |
thd:diplaying of utf8 characters IE is rated best and Firefox the worst |
| 10:48 |
|
kados |
tumer: I will try the search |
| 10:49 |
|
thd |
tumer: I experimented on my system and looked at most every common font set on my system to see what worked and what did not one weekend about three months ago. |
| 10:49 |
|
kados |
tumer: I can search for 'Örneklerle ' just fine |
| 10:49 |
|
kados |
tumer: in safari browser |
| 10:50 |
|
tumer |
kados: you can see it all fine so do i |
| 10:50 |
|
tumer |
copy that term and serach for it |
| 10:50 |
|
kados |
i did ... it works fine for me in safari |
| 10:50 |
|
kados |
and in firefox it seems |
| 10:50 |
|
tumer |
look where it says you searched for |
| 10:50 |
|
kados |
ahh ... yes, I see now |
| 10:51 |
|
kados |
I can tell you what's happening |
| 10:51 |
|
kados |
somewhere along the line |
| 10:51 |
|
kados |
perl is re-encoding utf8 as utf8 |
| 10:51 |
|
tumer |
now when this happens all the other turkish caharacters on my tempklate turn to that |
| 10:51 |
|
thd |
tumer: I started to set up some changes to the CSS for the templates but I fell asleep after the first one and had too much work to do so I never committed any changes to the CSS for this problem. |
| 10:52 |
|
tumer |
kados:did you get that. Thats problem 1 |
| 10:52 |
|
kados |
tumer: yes, I get that one |
| 10:52 |
|
kados |
tumer: and it should be simple to fix |
| 10:52 |
|
kados |
tumer: it's perl trying to do too much :-) |
| 10:53 |
|
kados |
tumer: there are other problems too? |
| 10:53 |
|
tumer |
2nd problem. try to delete any of the accented characters |
| 10:53 |
|
kados |
tumer: in the MARC editor? |
| 10:53 |
|
thd |
kados: so this is more than merely the font problem? |
| 10:53 |
|
kados |
thd: yes |
| 10:53 |
|
tumer |
you will notice that you need to backspace rather then one |
| 10:53 |
|
kados |
tumer: I don't have my zebra system adding/editing things yet |
| 10:54 |
|
kados |
tumer: so I can't test that |
| 10:54 |
|
tumer |
kados:copy the search term to search screen and test it there |
| 10:55 |
|
thd |
tumer: if you do not have clients with a UTF-8 environment for the record editor that is a more difficult problem. |
| 10:56 |
|
tumer |
kados:the second problem is more universal. Indexdata at one point decided to solve it |
| 10:57 |
|
thd |
tumer: Code to convert input from 8859 to UTF-8 may be addressed for the record editor but that would only work well for completely new and empty records. |
| 10:57 |
|
tumer |
currently i have written a composing scheme for the Turkish characters only which solves it |
| 10:57 |
|
thd |
tumer: how had Index Data proposed to address the second problem? |
| 10:58 |
|
tumer |
thd:one has to map all precomposed utf8 characters to there composed utf8 state |
| 11:00 |
|
thd |
tumer: however, with your composing scheme do the accented characters typed in an editing session appear as double characters before saving the record? |
| 11:00 |
|
tumer |
thd:no they all appear in their composed state |
| 11:03 |
|
thd |
tumer: Does the user have to enter precomposed characters according to a precomposition scheme that you have devised or just type normally as one would using any Turkish keyboard? |
| 11:04 |
|
tumer |
thd:any keyboard |
| 11:05 |
|
thd |
tumer: so where and how does your code run to implement that? |
| 11:05 |
|
tumer |
after I import records from LC |
| 11:06 |
|
tumer |
thd after marc8 to utf8 conversion you need this. and only then |
| 11:07 |
|
thd |
tumer: but how is your code able to act between keyboard output and browser input? Have you rewritten the MS Windows keyboard driver? |
| 11:09 |
|
tumer |
thd:i am getting confused here.The problem is marc8 to utf8 conversion and what we andertand from conversion |
| 11:09 |
|
thd |
tumer: also, do you have the record editor refreshing on every character input to show characters in their composed state? |
| 11:10 |
|
tumer |
thd:there is a discussion about this in YAZ list talking about characters and LC |
| 11:10 |
|
thd |
tumer: I am referring to how you have described solving this problem for the record editor where the user does not have a UTF-8 environment. |
| 11:11 |
|
tumer |
thd:i do not. I expect the user to have UNIcode environment by the way which IE acts in |
| 11:12 |
|
thd |
tumer: how does your Turkish character composition system function so that the user can type in a non-UTF-8 environment and see an immediate display as if the environment were UTF-8. |
| 11:12 |
|
thd |
? |
| 11:13 |
|
tumer |
any accented character from the keyboard in the browser is unicode and composed anyway. No problem there |
| 11:14 |
|
tumer |
any record we produce is utf8 with composed characters |
| 11:14 |
|
thd |
tumer: So Internet explorer is doing the work for you? |
| 11:14 |
|
tumer |
yes IE is in UNICODE environment |
| 11:15 |
|
thd |
tumer: you merely set Internet explorer to UTF-8 and everything is perfect? |
| 11:16 |
|
tumer[A] |
thd:sorry yes verything is perfect in utf8 but perl |
