| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 12:51 |
|
owen |
Hey shaun |
| 12:51 |
|
shaun |
damn, that went in the wrong place |
| 12:52 |
|
shaun |
hi owen |
| 12:52 |
|
owen |
So have you ever used Mambo before? |
| 12:53 |
|
shaun |
yep, for a couple of intranets, and i've severely hacked it on one of my publicly accessible sites (but will never, ever do that again...) |
| 12:53 |
|
owen |
why not? |
| 12:54 |
|
shaun |
it was painful, and i could have done it with wordpress in a tenth of the time |
| 12:54 |
|
owen |
Yeah, I've heard Wordpress is a good alternative to a full-blown CMS |
| 12:55 |
|
owen |
I find Mambo so convoluted it drives me up the wall. |
| 12:55 |
|
shaun |
i'm using it for a couple of sites now, including my own new one, and it is very impressive, particularly with K2 |
| 12:55 |
|
owen |
K2? |
| 12:56 |
|
shaun |
it's a theme that provides lots of additional functionality and allows WP to function a bit better as a cms, and a bit better as a blog too |
| 12:58 |
|
owen |
Do you have a link for that? |
| 12:59 |
|
shaun |
http://binarybonsai.com/k2/ |
| 13:05 |
|
owen |
Thanks. Looks nice. |
| 13:05 |
|
owen |
We're talking about using Mambo for a sub-site here at my library |
| 13:05 |
|
owen |
I'm not sure what all the requirements are yet, though. |
| 13:06 |
|
shaun |
how big is the site? i would recommend wordpress for any small multi-editor sites |
| 13:07 |
|
owen |
It's definitely small... But I'm not sure if Mambo has any bells-n-whistles that Wordpress doesn't |
| 13:10 |
|
shaun |
does complexity count as a bell or a whistle? :-) |
| 13:10 |
|
owen |
Not in an of itself, certainly. |
| 13:11 |
|
owen |
and lots of things we might want only come as plug-ins to Mambo, like a forum and an event calendar |
| 13:58 |
|
owen |
So shaun, you've used wordpress as a CMS (rather than for a specifically blog-like site)? |
| 14:04 |
|
shaun |
yes |
| 14:06 |
|
shaun |
my site combines a blog with some semi-static content (although it isn't there yet), |
| 14:07 |
|
shaun |
the other site is something that i needed to get up and running within a matter of hours and ensure that the client could edit it herself without delving into html |
| 14:47 |
|
shaun |
kados around? |
| 17:27 |
|
genjizzzz |
rach, you available? |
| 17:50 |
|
shaun |
T-10 |
| 17:55 |
|
shaun |
T-5 |
| 17:58 |
|
kados |
shaun: getting sleepy? ;-) |
| 17:59 |
|
shaun |
kados: nope, not yet, i've had enough caffeine to stay awake all night as it is |
| 17:59 |
|
russ |
hi shaun and kados |
| 18:00 |
|
shaun |
hi russ |
| 18:00 |
|
kados |
we're still waiting for ryan ... and I think owen's planning to be here as well |
| 18:00 |
|
russ |
sweet |
| 18:01 |
|
richard |
hi |
| 18:01 |
|
kados |
welcome richard, bob and owen |
| 18:01 |
|
owen |
Hi |
| 18:01 |
|
kados |
if you came for the meeting, we're still waiting for quorum |
| 18:01 |
|
bob |
hi |
| 18:02 |
|
russ |
i have asked bob and rich from katipo to sit in, as we are all interested in learning a bit more about mambo |
| 18:02 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 18:02 |
|
kados |
I"m calling ryan |
| 18:02 |
|
russ |
cool - once ryan is on deck will get cracking along |
| 18:03 |
|
shaun |
kados: would you be willing to take on my content page (support/contributing) or send me your support content? i doubt if i will be able to make the balance right by myself as you're doing the other support pages |
| 18:03 |
|
russ |
s/wil/we'll |
| 18:04 |
|
shaun |
i have cleared up the homepage modules a little bit (http://new.koha.org/mambo/), but i really need the template to go any further |
| 18:04 |
|
kados |
shaun: sure ... let's discuss it afterwards |
| 18:04 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 18:04 |
|
shaun |
oops |
| 18:04 |
|
kados |
welcome everyone |
| 18:05 |
|
kados |
shaun's topic is more complete ;-) |
| 18:05 |
|
kados |
so ... let's get started shall we? |
| 18:05 |
|
kados |
first off, let me introduce Ryan |
| 18:05 |
|
owen |
That site looks familiar |
| 18:05 |
|
ryan |
hi, folks. |
| 18:05 |
|
kados |
he's my partner in crime from LibLime ;-) |
| 18:05 |
|
kados |
who else is here? |
| 18:06 |
|
genji |
Here, miss. |
| 18:06 |
|
genji |
:) |
| 18:07 |
|
kados |
we don't have a formal agenda |
| 18:07 |
|
russ |
well actually |
| 18:07 |
|
kados |
I think the main topic will be whether and how Mambo can be used for the koha.org site |
| 18:07 |
|
kados |
unless russ has a agenda up ;-) |
| 18:07 |
|
kados |
in which case, he should run the meeting ;-) |
| 18:07 |
|
russ |
no i dont have an agenda up (apologies for that) |
| 18:08 |
|
kados |
that's cool |
| 18:08 |
|
russ |
firstly just wanted to stress a couple of things |
| 18:08 |
|
kados |
k |
| 18:08 |
|
russ |
I don't want to debate which CMS we are going to use anymore |
| 18:09 |
|
kados |
ok ;-) |
| 18:09 |
|
russ |
if Mambo isnt going to cut it, then my back up plan is to use Kea |
| 18:09 |
|
russ |
but I am pretty sure Mambo should be able to do what we want |
| 18:09 |
|
ryan |
what are the sticky points with mambo? |
| 18:09 |
|
russ |
and if we could leave any discussion about the actual content till later |
| 18:10 |
|
russ |
what I would like to talk about his how do we get a site in mambo |
| 18:10 |
|
russ |
to reflect the structure of the site map |
| 18:10 |
|
kados |
I'm confused about that myself |
| 18:10 |
|
russ |
http://www.russandsarah.gen.nz[…]edev/sitemap.html |
| 18:11 |
|
russ |
i am used to kea (our bespoke cms) which is uses a tree structure for content, so every heading in the sitemap has a page related to it and there is a strong sense of structure |
| 18:12 |
|
russ |
from what i can see with mambo - content objects are all thrown in together |
| 18:12 |
|
russ |
i have had a bit of a play with mambo on http://new.koha.org/mambo/ |
| 18:12 |
|
kados |
I'm confused about sections and categories ... what the difference is |
| 18:13 |
|
owen |
Sections contain categories, which contain content items, right? |
| 18:13 |
|
ryan |
right. |
| 18:13 |
|
russ |
right so our sections are "About Koha" "Support" "Download Koha" ? |
| 18:14 |
|
kados |
'showcase' and 'community' too right? |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
and then within the About Koha section we have categories for |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
# News |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
# Features |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
# Koha Team |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
# Koha History |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
# Support/ Contribute to Koha |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
# Awards |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
# Case Studies |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
# Testimonials |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
# FAQ |
| 18:15 |
|
russ |
sorry kados - yep showcase and community are sections |
| 18:16 |
|
owen |
ryan, does that sound like how you'd break it down? |
| 18:16 |
|
ryan |
yes. |
| 18:16 |
|
russ |
cool cos some of the pages will have the same names as the categories |
| 18:16 |
|
russ |
for example Koha History - we will probablyonly have one page of content in there for starters |
| 18:18 |
|
kados |
maybe ... maybe not ;-) |
| 18:18 |
|
kados |
depending no how verbose I'm feeling ;-) |
| 18:18 |
|
russ |
:-) |
| 18:18 |
|
kados |
but point well taken |
| 18:19 |
|
russ |
so setting up the right categories at the beginning is quite important? |
| 18:19 |
|
ryan |
The difficulty is the sections are for blog content... |
| 18:19 |
|
kados |
right ... I noticed that ... it is confusing |
| 18:19 |
|
ryan |
So I think you're limited in your design |
| 18:20 |
|
russ |
ah right |
| 18:20 |
|
russ |
so if we have a look at shaun's design |
| 18:20 |
|
owen |
I'm totally confused about 'blog content' etc. |
| 18:20 |
|
ryan |
the interface to edit content is basically a blog posting. |
| 18:22 |
|
ryan |
mambo's core is essentially for blogging. |
| 18:22 |
|
ryan |
you'd add news items to categories in sections, right? |
| 18:24 |
|
owen |
who's going to be in charge of making Mambo's template match shaun's design? |
| 18:24 |
|
owen |
Seems like that's going to be a pain |
| 18:25 |
|
ryan |
Probably not too hard to modify an existing free template. |
| 18:25 |
|
shaun |
i would if i had a testing ground - it seems as if mambo does not allow template editing through the admin interface, so i need to set up an identical site on one of my boxen or somehow get access at katipo |
| 18:26 |
|
owen |
Easy enough to do a local install |
| 18:30 |
|
russ |
ryan - modifing an existing template is that something shaun should be able to do through the mambo admin interface? |
| 18:30 |
|
russ |
i have given him administrator privs |
| 18:31 |
|
ryan |
to some extent. |
| 18:32 |
|
ryan |
it's just a bit clunky. |
| 18:32 |
|
owen |
he can move stuff around, right, but he can't edit actual template files through the Mambo interface can he? |
| 18:32 |
|
ryan |
you can edit the css. |
| 18:32 |
|
ryan |
but not the core mambo css. |
| 18:33 |
|
ryan |
sometimes it's useful to edit the mambo stuff as well. |
| 18:33 |
|
shaun |
the css isn't really enough - the html needs a total rehaul |
| 18:33 |
|
ryan |
also the template php is editable. |
| 18:33 |
|
ryan |
(thru the interface) |
| 18:34 |
|
russ |
hmm this is all starting to sound hard very quickly |
| 18:34 |
|
owen |
Everything in Mambo seems hard to me...I was hoping it was just that I was a newbie. |
| 18:35 |
|
ryan |
in theory, the template is all you need to change. |
| 18:35 |
|
ryan |
but i've found altering the mambo css necessary to get the right look. |
| 18:35 |
|
shaun |
and the modules, i think (?) |
| 18:35 |
|
ryan |
otherwise, if you can find a template with roughly the right layout, it's not too difficult. |
| 18:36 |
|
ryan |
right, you'll have to also edit all the module css. |
| 18:37 |
|
ryan |
where is shaun's design? |
| 18:37 |
|
kados |
http://dev.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/koha/index.php |
| 18:37 |
|
shaun |
http://dev.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/koha/content.php for the inner pages |
| 18:39 |
|
ryan |
nice. |
| 18:39 |
|
richard |
yeah |
| 18:39 |
|
russ |
so we should be looking for a template that we can alter? |
| 18:40 |
|
ryan |
actually, the solar flare might work fine. |
| 18:40 |
|
shaun |
ryan: it uses tables, they make me cry |
| 18:40 |
|
owen |
I don't know if you can escape them in Mambo |
| 18:41 |
|
ryan |
yeah. I think tables are easier for mambo. |
| 18:41 |
|
russ |
hmm ok |
| 18:42 |
|
shaun |
russ: drupal? typo3? |
| 18:42 |
|
russ |
simply cos the katipo crew can get shaun's design into kea with a template |
| 18:42 |
|
russ |
in less than two days |
| 18:42 |
|
shaun |
owen: wordpress ;-) |
| 18:42 |
|
owen |
russ, your comment really makes me want to try Kea :) |
| 18:42 |
|
shaun |
http://www.mamboserver.com/ have done it, if you look at the code - although it's nowhere near as complex as my design |
| 18:42 |
|
ryan |
by changing the content, you'll end up with two columns at bottom of page |
| 18:43 |
|
ryan |
and generally the right layout. |
| 18:46 |
|
russ |
oh dear |
| 18:46 |
|
richard |
erk |
| 18:46 |
|
russ |
yikes where did everyone go |
| 18:47 |
|
bob |
looks like the rest of the world has fallen off |
| 19:02 |
|
russ |
ok looks like everyone coming back |
| 19:03 |
|
richard |
yeah |
| 19:03 |
|
kados |
wha happened ? ;-) |
| 19:04 |
|
russ |
no idea |
| 19:04 |
|
russ |
i just want to check where we are at with this template thing |
| 19:05 |
|
russ |
with mambo the easiest way to customise a template it to take an existing template and change the css |
| 19:05 |
|
russ |
there are some things that you can't or are ver difficult to change cos mambo likes the code a certain way |
| 19:06 |
|
russ |
so if we take a template |
| 19:06 |
|
russ |
and customise it to look right |
| 19:06 |
|
russ |
we may have to put up with code that we aren't all that happy with |
| 19:07 |
|
owen |
Particularly if you want to be able to have a smooth upgrade the next time mambo comes out with a major new version |
| 19:07 |
|
russ |
right |
| 19:07 |
|
owen |
Nobody wants to go in and re-edit those templates again |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
hello? |
| 19:07 |
|
russ |
hi kados |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
are we back up? |
| 19:07 |
|
owen |
Looks like it |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 19:08 |
|
owen |
NZ'ers were immune. |
| 19:08 |
|
chris |
only some of em |
| 19:08 |
|
chris |
genji fell off too |
| 19:08 |
|
chris |
i suspect one of the biggish isps had a problem |
| 19:09 |
|
russ |
i am starting to worry about how much time we could sink into mambo and then we could end up with something that we are still not happy with |
| 19:09 |
|
russ |
does that sound fair? |
| 19:10 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 19:10 |
|
owen |
russ, that sounds very fair given you have a good grasp of what Kea is capable of |
| 19:11 |
|
russ |
i think it is just going to be easier to do it in kea - seeing as shaun has done all the hard work of building the template already |
| 19:11 |
|
russ |
we can get that into kea ready to to load content in by the weekend |
| 19:11 |
|
kados |
that's cool |
| 19:12 |
|
kados |
fine with me really |
| 19:12 |
|
russ |
oh well next time |
| 19:13 |
|
russ |
ok so moving on from here - i'll take what shaun has done and load it into kea |
| 19:13 |
|
russ |
and i'll setup up users so people can get in |
| 19:15 |
|
kados |
sounds good |
| 19:16 |
|
kados |
anything else to discuss? |
| 19:16 |
|
russ |
nope i dont think so |
| 19:16 |
|
russ |
i hope the content writing is going well |
| 19:16 |
|
kados |
cool ... I'm gonna take off then |
| 19:16 |
|
kados |
yea ... getting there |
| 19:16 |
|
kados |
I'll send you what I have tonight |
| 19:16 |
|
kados |
promise ;-) |
| 19:16 |
|
russ |
:-) |
| 19:17 |
|
russ |
ok i gotta go as well |
| 19:17 |
|
russ |
i will send an email to the list about the change |
| 19:17 |
|
russ |
thanks everyone - especially ryan for scaring me |
| 19:19 |
|
owen |
ryan, I don't think that was your intention :) |
| 19:20 |
|
ryan |
not really, but mambo does have its limitations... |
| 19:23 |
|
owen |
ryan, are there sites online that you've done with Mambo? Liblime, right? |
| 19:25 |
|
ryan |
support.liblime.com, mambo.liblime.com |
| 19:26 |
|
ryan |
and my sister's wedding information site, amberandgreg.com :) |
| 19:27 |
|
owen |
ryan, have you tried other forum plugins besides the simpleboard one? What do you think of it? |
| 19:29 |
|
ryan |
owen, simpleboard is okay, but limited. Other forums are more full featured, stand-alone apps with some code to link them to mambo. |
| 19:29 |
|
ryan |
What mambo is good for, imo, is throwing together a decent looking, working site fast. |
| 19:30 |
|
owen |
You did a good job on the liblime mambo demo and your family site of making it look non-Mambo-like, which to me is a sign of success. |
| 19:31 |
|
ryan |
thx; really, the template customization isn't too bad. |
| 19:31 |
|
ryan |
but keeping versions upt o date is a problem. |
| 19:31 |
|
owen |
NBBC's site is Mambo too, isn't it? |
| 19:32 |
|
ryan |
you mean the customer support site? |
| 19:32 |
|
owen |
Their actual site http://www.nbbc.edu |
| 19:33 |
|
ryan |
yes. i guess so. |
| 19:34 |
|
ryan |
not a bad looking site. |
| 19:39 |
|
shaun |
The Fight |
| 19:39 |
|
shaun |
Is On |
| 19:39 |
|
russ |
hi shaun - you made it back |
| 19:40 |
|
russ |
fyi - bob from katipo is loading your pages into kea, we'll have the site setup and ready to load in content by the end of the day |
| 19:41 |
|
russ |
using the html that you have written |
| 19:41 |
|
shaun |
hi - yep - did the dns change at irc.citylink.co.nz? the ip was different to usual |
| 19:41 |
|
russ |
i think one of the isps we use wigged out a bit |
| 19:41 |
|
chris |
the number looks the same to me |
| 19:42 |
|
chris |
yo |
| 19:42 |
|
chris |
whoops wrong channel :-) |
| 19:42 |
|
russ |
shaun - i'll send you a kea login one it is loaded in and we can take it from there |
| 19:44 |
|
shaun |
so no chance of using another cms then? btw: i still have a couple of changes to make to the homepage but they are minimal |
| 19:44 |
|
si |
irc.citylink.co.nz got fixed yesterday, so that it does actually point at an irc server |
| 19:45 |
|
russ |
shaun - i'll give you a login to kea once the homepage is loaded in |
| 19:46 |
|
russ |
so you can make the changes |
| 20:05 |
|
shaun |
russ: have you finished with the files at my end? |
| 02:14 |
|
osmoze |
hello |
| 02:32 |
|
hdl |
hello |
| 04:08 |
|
hdl |
paul_away? |
| 04:28 |
|
Sylvain |
arg, cvs broken ? :( |
| 05:01 |
|
hdl |
sylvain ? |
| 05:01 |
|
hdl |
Tu dis cvs broken ? Quelle version ? |
| 05:02 |
|
hdl |
HEAD was under construction for ZEBRA. Paul worte a note about this. |
| 05:07 |
|
Sylvain |
non, hdl juste que j'arrivais pas à updater depuis sourceforge |
| 05:07 |
|
Sylvain |
c'est revenu |
| 06:09 |
|
shaun |
wow |
| 06:09 |
|
shaun |
anybody else checked out kea? |
| 06:09 |
|
si |
shaun: I've used it |
| 06:10 |
|
shaun |
i know you have ;-), i was talking about the new koha site in kea, it looks very impressive with so little work |
| 06:11 |
|
si |
there's been a fair amount of work gone into kea :-) |
| 06:11 |
|
shaun |
i can tell, it looks awesome |
| 06:14 |
|
shaun |
who's been working on this particular site at the katipo end? |
| 06:14 |
|
si |
no idea |
| 06:14 |
|
si |
russ and his band of slaves, presumably |
| 06:16 |
|
si |
if it works, yo do |
| 06:18 |
|
Sylvain |
shaun what's the url of the kohasite with kea ? |
| 06:19 |
|
shaun |
i'm not sure whether it's allowed for sharing yet - i could only access it with a un+pw given to me by russ |
| 06:19 |
|
Sylvain |
ok, it must be the url in the mail so, I tried to access and was asked a login/pwd :) |
| 06:20 |
|
shaun |
yeah - i won't do the make public thing, i'll leave that to a katipo wizard |
| 06:20 |
|
Sylvain |
ok, no problem |
