| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 19:10 |
|
gavin |
|
| 19:10 |
|
gavin |
hi all |
| 19:10 |
|
rach |
hi |
| 19:10 |
|
gavin |
kados: any luck with that marc data? |
| 01:57 |
|
hdl |
hi |
| 06:29 |
|
kados |
hi all |
| 06:52 |
|
paul_away |
hi joshua/kados |
| 06:53 |
|
paul |
what's new about your 2.4 features/roadmap ? |
| 06:53 |
|
paul |
you can include me for at least 2 features : |
| 06:53 |
|
paul |
* managing the leader. |
| 06:54 |
|
paul |
should be easy, with a simple trick : i'll store the leader in a "000" MARC field (& change 000 to leader in Biblio.pm) |
| 06:54 |
|
paul |
+ writing a plugin to fill it & do some automatic changes where needed after storing (like date...) |
| 06:54 |
|
paul |
* what we call in french "listes de circulation" (don't know the word in english) |
| 06:55 |
|
paul |
it's saying how we should distribute the item once he arrives (=who should read it) |
| 06:55 |
|
paul |
there are 2 kindw of "listes de circulation". start & circle. |
| 06:55 |
|
paul |
s/start/star/ |
| 06:55 |
|
paul |
the star means the doc goes back to the librarian after each reading. |
| 06:56 |
|
paul |
the circle means reader X gives it to reader X+1 on the list |
| 07:05 |
|
paul |
beeping kados ... if you have a minut could you help me for an english template. |
| 07:05 |
|
paul |
read here pls : |
| 07:05 |
|
paul |
http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:[…]&selectview=small |
| 07:06 |
|
paul |
is the text correct & easy to understand in english. I'm afraid it can be improved. |
| 07:06 |
|
paul |
the 1st date (12/12/2004) is the date where the subscription began, for the 1st time |
| 07:06 |
|
paul |
the 2nd date (01/01/2005) is the date where the subscript has been renewed for the last time. |
| 07:07 |
|
paul |
(note that dates values are stupid, they are just for sample) |
| 07:07 |
|
paul |
thanks for your opinion. |
| 07:22 |
|
kados |
paul: sorry ... writing an email |
| 07:22 |
|
kados |
back now |
| 07:22 |
|
paul |
no pb, i'm staying here for some hours ;-) |
| 07:22 |
|
kados |
I can't read that page |
| 07:23 |
|
paul |
why ? |
| 07:23 |
|
kados |
18320,N°18321,N°18322,N°18323 |
| 07:23 |
|
kados |
that's what it looks like |
| 07:23 |
|
paul |
with firefox ? |
| 07:23 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 07:24 |
|
paul |
isit better now ? |
| 07:24 |
|
paul |
(note you may need to change language to english) |
| 07:24 |
|
paul |
(as it's french by default iirc) |
| 07:24 |
|
kados |
ahh ;-) |
| 07:25 |
|
kados |
Subscription information for Test logiciel en pratique |
| 07:25 |
|
paul |
that's it |
| 07:25 |
|
kados |
t began on 12/12/2004 and is issued every for 1 weeks 12 months |
| 07:25 |
|
kados |
Last renewal of subscription was 01/01/2005 |
| 07:25 |
|
kados |
This subscription is now ended. The last issue was recieved on 01/01/2006 |
| 07:25 |
|
kados |
Destinataire : CDI |
| 07:26 |
|
kados |
Recieved issues |
| 07:26 |
|
paul |
(ignore "destinataire CDI", it has been entered in notes by EMN) |
| 07:26 |
|
kados |
18320 à18344 |
| 07:26 |
|
kados |
(ok) |
| 07:26 |
|
kados |
it's understandable in English |
| 07:27 |
|
paul |
understandable OK. But is there a better way to write it ? |
| 07:27 |
|
kados |
(every ?) |
| 07:27 |
|
kados |
hmmm |
| 07:27 |
|
kados |
maybe as a table? |
| 07:27 |
|
kados |
s/every for/every/ |
| 07:28 |
|
paul |
every should be "every week/month/quarter/day" (periodicity) |
| 07:28 |
|
paul |
looking for the bug... |
| 07:28 |
|
kados |
ahh |
| 07:28 |
|
kados |
also not sure about 1 weeks 12 months |
| 07:29 |
|
kados |
does that mean 53 weeks? |
| 07:29 |
|
paul |
no, it's for testing purposes |
| 07:29 |
|
paul |
should be |
| 07:29 |
|
kados |
or every week for 12 months? |
| 07:29 |
|
paul |
X weeks XOR Y months XOR Z issues |
| 07:29 |
|
kados |
ok |
| 07:30 |
|
paul |
ok "every..." fixed |
| 07:30 |
|
kados |
better |
| 07:30 |
|
kados |
so I'm still not clear on the 1 weeks 12 months |
| 07:31 |
|
kados |
does it mean 53 weeks? |
| 07:31 |
|
paul |
when you create a subscription, you must write how long it lasts. |
| 07:31 |
|
paul |
& it can be entered as X weeks or Y months or Z issues. |
| 07:31 |
|
paul |
for example, you subscribe for 52 weeks. |
| 07:31 |
|
paul |
of 4 issues |
| 07:32 |
|
kados |
so in this example you subscribed to 365 issues for 53 weeks |
| 07:32 |
|
kados |
? |
| 07:32 |
|
paul |
(in public libraries, it's usually 1 year. But some specific serials for academic/research you need "strange" durations) |
| 07:32 |
|
kados |
(right) |
| 07:32 |
|
paul |
in fact, 1 week + 12 months means nothing in subscriptions. |
| 07:33 |
|
paul |
i think Koha will only take the 1st value entered (1 week in this sample) |
| 07:33 |
|
kados |
hmmm, that might be confusing |
| 07:33 |
|
paul |
you should NOT enter both values. |
| 07:33 |
|
paul |
(in librarian interface) |
| 07:33 |
|
paul |
http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:[…]&subscriptionid=1 |
| 07:33 |
|
paul |
(test/test should work) |
| 07:34 |
|
paul |
subscription length : |
| 07:34 |
|
paul |
Saisir 1 des champs suivants : |
| 07:34 |
|
paul |
"enter one of the following" |
| 07:34 |
|
kados |
right |
| 07:35 |
|
kados |
so this is a new feature? (it looks similar to the one you demoed to NPL some months back) |
| 07:35 |
|
paul |
no, not a new feature. |
| 07:35 |
|
paul |
it's the one i've demoed when in Athens |
| 07:35 |
|
kados |
ok |
| 07:36 |
|
paul |
just that i've improved some opac pages. |
| 07:36 |
|
paul |
(with "complete view" for example) |
| 07:36 |
|
kados |
paul: would you like to see 5 million marc records searched in under one second? |
| 07:36 |
|
paul |
& a new systempref. |
| 07:36 |
|
paul |
of course ! |
| 07:36 |
|
kados |
http://liblime.com/zap/advanced.html |
| 07:36 |
|
kados |
click on "LibLime" |
| 07:36 |
|
paul |
with zebra ? |
| 07:36 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 07:37 |
|
paul |
searching "joshua" |
| 07:37 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 07:37 |
|
paul |
1st answer : terrorism ! |
| 07:37 |
|
paul |
1nd answer : the wrong man !!! |
| 07:37 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 07:37 |
|
paul |
(2nd sorry) |
| 07:37 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 07:37 |
|
paul |
stupid search tool ;-) |
| 07:37 |
|
kados |
very funny coincidence ;-) |
| 07:37 |
|
paul |
(on phone) |
| 07:50 |
|
paul |
kados, i'm back |
| 07:51 |
|
paul |
kados, a question : when I surf with ff on bureau.paulpoulain.com I often get a page without stylesheet. |
| 07:52 |
|
paul |
this never happend on another server with ff |
| 07:52 |
|
paul |
neither with another browser on bureau.paulpoulain.com |
| 07:52 |
|
paul |
any idea why this happends ? |
| 07:58 |
|
kados |
hmmm |
| 07:58 |
|
kados |
how are you declaring the stylesheet? |
| 07:59 |
|
paul |
what's strange, is that i SOMETIMES loose the stylesheet |
| 07:59 |
|
kados |
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="homepage.css" /> |
| 07:59 |
|
kados |
so does it know where to find the homepage.css if not / is present? |
| 07:59 |
|
paul |
it I reload the page, 2 or 3 or more times, the stylesheet appears again. |
| 07:59 |
|
paul |
??? |
| 08:00 |
|
paul |
stylesheet is |
| 08:00 |
|
paul |
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/opac-tmpl/css/en/includes/opac.css" /> |
| 08:00 |
|
paul |
& it happend with other webservices i have on bureau.paulpoulain.com |
| 08:00 |
|
kados |
hmmm ... which page are you looking at? (I was looking at just plain old bureau.paulpoulain.com |
| 08:01 |
|
paul |
koha or kartouche, or dolibarr, my tool to follow my customers |
| 08:01 |
|
kados |
strange |
| 08:01 |
|
kados |
have you validated the css? |
| 08:01 |
|
paul |
no |
| 08:02 |
|
paul |
but everything worked fine until recently |
| 08:02 |
|
paul |
in every website i host on bureau.paulpoulain.com |
| 08:02 |
|
kados |
strange |
| 08:02 |
|
kados |
maybe a ff bug? |
| 08:02 |
|
paul |
& it seems that it has something to do with the speed I surf |
| 08:03 |
|
paul |
if I click too quickly, i loost the stylesheet. |
| 08:03 |
|
paul |
if i reload after 1mn or more, it's back. |
| 08:03 |
|
paul |
very very strange... |
| 08:04 |
|
paul |
back to ZAP! |
| 08:04 |
|
paul |
zebra is compiled on my computer. i'll try to give it a test this week |
| 08:04 |
|
kados |
great ... you may have trouble with unimarc |
| 08:05 |
|
kados |
(I don't see a default for unimarc) |
| 08:05 |
|
paul |
if it's used for search, then i think almost all marc_*_table tables will disappear.. |
| 08:05 |
|
kados |
but if you send me some unimarc records i can try to find it |
| 08:05 |
|
paul |
because there's something that I also plan to do : |
| 08:05 |
|
kados |
paul: maybe that's not a bad idea? |
| 08:05 |
|
kados |
(it would solve the leader problem ;-)) |
| 08:05 |
|
paul |
for instance MARCgetrecord reads all lines in marc_subfield_table |
| 08:06 |
|
paul |
and rebuilds the MARC record. |
| 08:06 |
|
paul |
but we could store the marc record in raw format, in biblio or marc_biblio table. |
| 08:06 |
|
kados |
right ... maybe it's not as good of a marc record? (if no leader, etc) |
| 08:06 |
|
kados |
exactly |
| 08:06 |
|
paul |
the leader problem remaining only in MARC editor. |
| 08:06 |
|
paul |
as well as other problems. |
| 08:07 |
|
kados |
IMO we need a new Z39.50 client with integrated MARC editor |
| 08:07 |
|
paul |
about some unimarc datas, i can send you EMN database (13 000 biblios) |
| 08:07 |
|
kados |
so records can be retrieved, stored temporarily in memory (of the machine cataloger is on), edited, and saved to a file on the server |
| 08:07 |
|
paul |
any idea on z3950 client with integrated MARC editor ? |
| 08:07 |
|
kados |
EMN database would be great |
| 08:08 |
|
kados |
have you seen ITS.MARC? |
| 08:08 |
|
paul |
no |
| 08:08 |
|
kados |
or Bookwhere? |
| 08:08 |
|
kados |
I have a meeting with NPL catalogers on Wed morning |
| 08:08 |
|
kados |
to discuss 'an optimal tool' for cataloging |
| 08:09 |
|
kados |
OCLC also has some nice MARC tools |
| 08:09 |
|
kados |
the basic idea is to avoid all page reloads |
| 08:09 |
|
paul |
my goal is to keep Koha as easy to setup as possible. even for libraries that want 'simple unimarc' |
| 08:09 |
|
kados |
sure ... well here's a thought |
| 08:09 |
|
kados |
_if_ we get rid of marc_*_table |
| 08:10 |
|
kados |
we can have two flavours of Koha |
| 08:10 |
|
kados |
(like now) |
| 08:10 |
|
kados |
one with Zebra and MARC |
| 08:10 |
|
kados |
one with old Koha tables |
| 08:10 |
|
kados |
the one with old Koha tables is easy to setup and use |
| 08:10 |
|
kados |
the one with Zebra and MARC probably means we need support from Paul, LibLime, MJ or Katipo |
| 08:10 |
|
kados |
(unless very techie librarians) |
| 08:11 |
|
kados |
I'm afraid that we'll worry too much about 'difficulty of setup' and sacrifice a better product |
| 08:12 |
|
paul |
maybe it's time to start a poll on mailing lists ? |
| 08:12 |
|
kados |
could be ... I need to send a couple of emails today |
| 08:12 |
|
kados |
but I was waiting to finish another feature |
| 08:13 |
|
kados |
'opensearch' for Koha |
| 08:13 |
|
paul |
what is opensearch ? |
| 08:13 |
|
kados |
opensearch.a9.com |
| 08:13 |
|
kados |
setup your 'columns' by searching for 'library' |
| 08:13 |
|
kados |
you will find PINES and Nelsonville and LibLime (and a couple of other libraries also) |
| 08:13 |
|
kados |
then you can do a search on all of those databases |
| 08:14 |
|
kados |
and return the results in columns |
| 08:16 |
|
paul |
how does it work ? |
| 08:16 |
|
kados |
it's based on RSS and(so XML) |
| 08:16 |
|
kados |
the Koha client searches via Z39.50 |
| 08:17 |
|
kados |
and returns valid RSS for the search |
| 08:36 |
|
paul |
EMN.iso2709 sent to jmf at liblime.com (1.8MB, gzipped) |
| 09:35 |
|
kados |
morning owen |
| 09:35 |
|
owen |
Hi |
| 09:35 |
|
paul |
hi owen |
| 09:36 |
|
paul |
kados : i'm reading "embedding the zebra" doc |
| 09:36 |
|
kados |
paul: great! ... that's probably a good plan |
| 09:36 |
|
paul |
it should be very easy to query zebra . |
| 09:36 |
|
paul |
from Koha API. |
| 09:36 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 09:37 |
|
kados |
the tricky bit will be auto-updates to index |
| 09:37 |
|
paul |
nope |
| 09:37 |
|
kados |
we'll need to use record ids |
| 09:37 |
|
kados |
(maybe bibids) |
| 09:37 |
|
paul |
yes & we already have biblionumber in 090$a ! |
| 09:37 |
|
kados |
ohh ... good point! |
| 09:38 |
|
paul |
;-) |
| 09:39 |
|
kados |
owen: how does NPL handle outgoing ILL (asside from MORE)? |
| 09:40 |
|
kados |
(acually, how do we handle MORE even?) |
| 09:40 |
|
owen |
I'm not really sure. |
| 09:40 |
|
owen |
...about non-MORE ILLs, that is. |
| 09:40 |
|
kados |
I'm wondering whether we create a borrower for the institution |
| 09:41 |
|
kados |
koha doesn't really have any built-in ILL features that I know of |
| 09:41 |
|
owen |
For MORE requests, each branch has a MORE-specific account |
| 09:41 |
|
kados |
paul: how do your libraries handle this? |
| 09:41 |
|
owen |
So items are recorded as being checked out to MORE, but the specific institution isn't recorded in Koha. |
| 09:41 |
|
kados |
ILL = Inter Library Loan |
| 09:41 |
|
kados |
right |
| 09:42 |
|
kados |
boy, that seems like a great way to lose track of where items are |
| 09:42 |
|
owen |
Yeah, the disadvantage is that you have to cross-reference the titles on the MORE account to the record of what items are still on loan to you in the MORE system |
| 09:43 |
|
kados |
we need some ILL categories with institutions and ability to record borrower ids even |
| 09:43 |
|
kados |
tha's probably going to be a requirement before NCIP will work |
| 09:44 |
|
owen |
I'm not sure I know what you mean |
| 09:44 |
|
paul |
kados : my libraries uses a borrower category & borrower card & issuing rules specific for ILL |
| 09:44 |
|
paul |
nothing more. |
| 09:44 |
|
kados |
yay ... Fedora Core 4 is released! |
| 09:44 |
|
kados |
paul: I see |
| 09:45 |
|
kados |
owen: well we should be able to add institutions as 'borrowers' and specify borrowers of those institutions as having an item on loan |
| 09:45 |
|
kados |
owen: or reserve, etc. |
| 09:46 |
|
paul |
there is a standard for ILL. |
| 09:46 |
|
paul |
like iso2709 |
| 09:46 |
|
kados |
right |
| 09:46 |
|
kados |
but NCIP goes beyond this |
| 09:46 |
|
paul |
but Koha does nothing about it. |
| 09:46 |
|
kados |
right |
| 09:46 |
|
paul |
will be for 4.0 ;-) |
| 09:46 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 09:46 |
|
owen |
The current MORE mailing label list consists of 376 institutions, just to give you an idea of how many we're talking about. |
| 09:47 |
|
kados |
not too bad |
| 09:47 |
|
kados |
we dont' really need any information on anyone that doesn't have one of our items out |
| 09:47 |
|
kados |
(in fact, we don't need to keep track of anyone really) |
| 09:47 |
|
kados |
(but it might be nice to have a borrower id or something) |
| 11:06 |
|
owen |
hi shaun. Long time no see. |
| 11:14 |
|
shaun |
hi owen (signed in and went off) |
| 11:16 |
|
shaun |
i've got my proposal into school now, but the other librarians were disappointed with the lack of figures, so I need to get in touch with a professional support agency before we go any further |
| 11:17 |
|
kados |
shaun: professional support agency? |
| 11:18 |
|
shaun |
kados gets excited ;) |
| 11:18 |
|
shaun |
do you have any base in the UK? |
| 11:18 |
|
kados |
shaun: hehe yep |
| 11:18 |
|
kados |
shaun: I could handle a UK account |
| 11:19 |
|
kados |
shaun: but you should talk to MJ first |
| 11:19 |
|
shaun |
yep, I was hoping to talk to him |
| 11:19 |
|
shaun |
would you ssh? I suppose it would cost far too much for you to get over here |
| 11:20 |
|
kados |
yea ... I'd mail the configured server ... and ssh for configuration and updates, etc. |
| 11:20 |
|
kados |
I'd also probably be able to setup a toll-free line for UK if I had one account there |
| 11:20 |
|
owen |
Oooh, would it be shiny and green? |
| 11:21 |
|
shaun |
I think they would feel safer with somebody actually based in the UK, so I will get in touch with MJ/slef first |
| 11:21 |
|
kados |
hehe ... no ... we're not crazy like katipo ;-) |
| 11:21 |
|
kados |
right ... sounds good |
| 11:21 |
|
kados |
let me know if you need a proposal |
| 11:23 |
|
shaun |
I have written up a proposal for everything except the support costings, so that's where you/MJ have to come in |
| 11:24 |
|
shaun |
have you supported schools before? |
| 11:24 |
|
kados |
nope ... just public libraries |
| 11:25 |
|
kados |
but we're negociating contracts with like 4 schools at the moment (not sure if they will actually sign or not ... ) |
| 11:25 |
|
shaun |
MJ said that he would be cautious over contracts with schools |
| 11:25 |
|
kados |
so when you say you've written up a proposal for everything except the support costings -- what all does that entail? I wasn't aware of anything _but_ support costings ;-) |
| 11:28 |
|
shaun |
everything technical, a thorough explanation of the free software model, "who are they and why should we trust them?", what to expect from 2.4, how the thing works |
| 11:28 |
|
kados |
ahh ... so mainly an 'apology' for Koha and open source ... not really a proposal to do work for them |
| 11:28 |
|
kados |
(LibLime's proposals include several sections on this ;-)) |
| 11:28 |
|
shaun |
that's the main part of it, yeh |
| 11:29 |
|
kados |
shaun: would you consider publishing this report on kohadocs.org? |
| 11:31 |
|
shaun |
it's *very* specific to the school, as it compares the old library system and the new proprietary thing they were evaluating as well |
| 11:32 |
|
shaun |
and it's also very much an introduction to the true concept of open source |
