Time Nick Message 19:10 gavin 19:10 gavin hi all 19:10 rach hi 19:10 gavin kados: any luck with that marc data? 01:57 hdl hi 06:29 kados hi all 06:52 paul_away hi joshua/kados 06:53 paul what's new about your 2.4 features/roadmap ? 06:53 paul you can include me for at least 2 features : 06:53 paul * managing the leader. 06:54 paul should be easy, with a simple trick : i'll store the leader in a "000" MARC field (& change 000 to leader in Biblio.pm) 06:54 paul + writing a plugin to fill it & do some automatic changes where needed after storing (like date...) 06:54 paul * what we call in french "listes de circulation" (don't know the word in english) 06:55 paul it's saying how we should distribute the item once he arrives (=who should read it) 06:55 paul there are 2 kindw of "listes de circulation". start & circle. 06:55 paul s/start/star/ 06:55 paul the star means the doc goes back to the librarian after each reading. 06:56 paul the circle means reader X gives it to reader X+1 on the list 07:05 paul beeping kados ... if you have a minut could you help me for an english template. 07:05 paul read here pls : 07:05 paul http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:9006/cgi-bin/koha/opac-serial-issues.pl?biblionumber=9798&selectview=small 07:06 paul is the text correct & easy to understand in english. I'm afraid it can be improved. 07:06 paul the 1st date (12/12/2004) is the date where the subscription began, for the 1st time 07:06 paul the 2nd date (01/01/2005) is the date where the subscript has been renewed for the last time. 07:07 paul (note that dates values are stupid, they are just for sample) 07:07 paul thanks for your opinion. 07:22 kados paul: sorry ... writing an email 07:22 kados back now 07:22 paul no pb, i'm staying here for some hours ;-) 07:22 kados I can't read that page 07:23 paul why ? 07:23 kados 18320,N°18321,N°18322,N°18323 07:23 kados that's what it looks like 07:23 paul with firefox ? 07:23 kados yep 07:24 paul isit better now ? 07:24 paul (note you may need to change language to english) 07:24 paul (as it's french by default iirc) 07:24 kados ahh ;-) 07:25 kados Subscription information for Test logiciel en pratique 07:25 paul that's it 07:25 kados t began on 12/12/2004 and is issued every for 1 weeks 12 months 07:25 kados Last renewal of subscription was 01/01/2005 07:25 kados This subscription is now ended. The last issue was recieved on 01/01/2006 07:25 kados Destinataire : CDI 07:26 kados Recieved issues 07:26 paul (ignore "destinataire CDI", it has been entered in notes by EMN) 07:26 kados 18320 à18344 07:26 kados (ok) 07:26 kados it's understandable in English 07:27 paul understandable OK. But is there a better way to write it ? 07:27 kados (every ?) 07:27 kados hmmm 07:27 kados maybe as a table? 07:27 kados s/every for/every/ 07:28 paul every should be "every week/month/quarter/day" (periodicity) 07:28 paul looking for the bug... 07:28 kados ahh 07:28 kados also not sure about 1 weeks 12 months 07:29 kados does that mean 53 weeks? 07:29 paul no, it's for testing purposes 07:29 paul should be 07:29 kados or every week for 12 months? 07:29 paul X weeks XOR Y months XOR Z issues 07:29 kados ok 07:30 paul ok "every..." fixed 07:30 kados better 07:30 kados so I'm still not clear on the 1 weeks 12 months 07:31 kados does it mean 53 weeks? 07:31 paul when you create a subscription, you must write how long it lasts. 07:31 paul & it can be entered as X weeks or Y months or Z issues. 07:31 paul for example, you subscribe for 52 weeks. 07:31 paul of 4 issues 07:32 kados so in this example you subscribed to 365 issues for 53 weeks 07:32 kados ? 07:32 paul (in public libraries, it's usually 1 year. But some specific serials for academic/research you need "strange" durations) 07:32 kados (right) 07:32 paul in fact, 1 week + 12 months means nothing in subscriptions. 07:33 paul i think Koha will only take the 1st value entered (1 week in this sample) 07:33 kados hmmm, that might be confusing 07:33 paul you should NOT enter both values. 07:33 paul (in librarian interface) 07:33 paul http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:9007/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-add.pl?op=mod&subscriptionid=1 07:33 paul (test/test should work) 07:34 paul subscription length : 07:34 paul Saisir 1 des champs suivants : 07:34 paul "enter one of the following" 07:34 kados right 07:35 kados so this is a new feature? (it looks similar to the one you demoed to NPL some months back) 07:35 paul no, not a new feature. 07:35 paul it's the one i've demoed when in Athens 07:35 kados ok 07:36 paul just that i've improved some opac pages. 07:36 paul (with "complete view" for example) 07:36 kados paul: would you like to see 5 million marc records searched in under one second? 07:36 paul & a new systempref. 07:36 paul of course ! 07:36 kados http://liblime.com/zap/advanced.html 07:36 kados click on "LibLime" 07:36 paul with zebra ? 07:36 kados yep 07:37 paul searching "joshua" 07:37 kados hehe 07:37 paul 1st answer : terrorism ! 07:37 paul 1nd answer : the wrong man !!! 07:37 kados hehe 07:37 paul (2nd sorry) 07:37 kados hehe 07:37 paul stupid search tool ;-) 07:37 kados very funny coincidence ;-) 07:37 paul (on phone) 07:50 paul kados, i'm back 07:51 paul kados, a question : when I surf with ff on bureau.paulpoulain.com I often get a page without stylesheet. 07:52 paul this never happend on another server with ff 07:52 paul neither with another browser on bureau.paulpoulain.com 07:52 paul any idea why this happends ? 07:58 kados hmmm 07:58 kados how are you declaring the stylesheet? 07:59 paul what's strange, is that i SOMETIMES loose the stylesheet 07:59 kados <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="homepage.css" /> 07:59 kados so does it know where to find the homepage.css if not / is present? 07:59 paul it I reload the page, 2 or 3 or more times, the stylesheet appears again. 07:59 paul ??? 08:00 paul stylesheet is 08:00 paul <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/opac-tmpl/css/en/includes/opac.css" /> 08:00 paul & it happend with other webservices i have on bureau.paulpoulain.com 08:00 kados hmmm ... which page are you looking at? (I was looking at just plain old bureau.paulpoulain.com 08:01 paul koha or kartouche, or dolibarr, my tool to follow my customers 08:01 kados strange 08:01 kados have you validated the css? 08:01 paul no 08:02 paul but everything worked fine until recently 08:02 paul in every website i host on bureau.paulpoulain.com 08:02 kados strange 08:02 kados maybe a ff bug? 08:02 paul & it seems that it has something to do with the speed I surf 08:03 paul if I click too quickly, i loost the stylesheet. 08:03 paul if i reload after 1mn or more, it's back. 08:03 paul very very strange... 08:04 paul back to ZAP! 08:04 paul zebra is compiled on my computer. i'll try to give it a test this week 08:04 kados great ... you may have trouble with unimarc 08:05 kados (I don't see a default for unimarc) 08:05 paul if it's used for search, then i think almost all marc_*_table tables will disappear.. 08:05 kados but if you send me some unimarc records i can try to find it 08:05 paul because there's something that I also plan to do : 08:05 kados paul: maybe that's not a bad idea? 08:05 kados (it would solve the leader problem ;-)) 08:05 paul for instance MARCgetrecord reads all lines in marc_subfield_table 08:06 paul and rebuilds the MARC record. 08:06 paul but we could store the marc record in raw format, in biblio or marc_biblio table. 08:06 kados right ... maybe it's not as good of a marc record? (if no leader, etc) 08:06 kados exactly 08:06 paul the leader problem remaining only in MARC editor. 08:06 paul as well as other problems. 08:07 kados IMO we need a new Z39.50 client with integrated MARC editor 08:07 paul about some unimarc datas, i can send you EMN database (13 000 biblios) 08:07 kados so records can be retrieved, stored temporarily in memory (of the machine cataloger is on), edited, and saved to a file on the server 08:07 paul any idea on z3950 client with integrated MARC editor ? 08:07 kados EMN database would be great 08:08 kados have you seen ITS.MARC? 08:08 paul no 08:08 kados or Bookwhere? 08:08 kados I have a meeting with NPL catalogers on Wed morning 08:08 kados to discuss 'an optimal tool' for cataloging 08:09 kados OCLC also has some nice MARC tools 08:09 kados the basic idea is to avoid all page reloads 08:09 paul my goal is to keep Koha as easy to setup as possible. even for libraries that want 'simple unimarc' 08:09 kados sure ... well here's a thought 08:09 kados _if_ we get rid of marc_*_table 08:10 kados we can have two flavours of Koha 08:10 kados (like now) 08:10 kados one with Zebra and MARC 08:10 kados one with old Koha tables 08:10 kados the one with old Koha tables is easy to setup and use 08:10 kados the one with Zebra and MARC probably means we need support from Paul, LibLime, MJ or Katipo 08:10 kados (unless very techie librarians) 08:11 kados I'm afraid that we'll worry too much about 'difficulty of setup' and sacrifice a better product 08:12 paul maybe it's time to start a poll on mailing lists ? 08:12 kados could be ... I need to send a couple of emails today 08:12 kados but I was waiting to finish another feature 08:13 kados 'opensearch' for Koha 08:13 paul what is opensearch ? 08:13 kados opensearch.a9.com 08:13 kados setup your 'columns' by searching for 'library' 08:13 kados you will find PINES and Nelsonville and LibLime (and a couple of other libraries also) 08:13 kados then you can do a search on all of those databases 08:14 kados and return the results in columns 08:16 paul how does it work ? 08:16 kados it's based on RSS and(so XML) 08:16 kados the Koha client searches via Z39.50 08:17 kados and returns valid RSS for the search 08:36 paul EMN.iso2709 sent to jmf at liblime.com (1.8MB, gzipped) 09:35 kados morning owen 09:35 owen Hi 09:35 paul hi owen 09:36 paul kados : i'm reading "embedding the zebra" doc 09:36 kados paul: great! ... that's probably a good plan 09:36 paul it should be very easy to query zebra . 09:36 paul from Koha API. 09:36 kados yep 09:37 kados the tricky bit will be auto-updates to index 09:37 paul nope 09:37 kados we'll need to use record ids 09:37 kados (maybe bibids) 09:37 paul yes & we already have biblionumber in 090$a ! 09:37 kados ohh ... good point! 09:38 paul ;-) 09:39 kados owen: how does NPL handle outgoing ILL (asside from MORE)? 09:40 kados (acually, how do we handle MORE even?) 09:40 owen I'm not really sure. 09:40 owen ...about non-MORE ILLs, that is. 09:40 kados I'm wondering whether we create a borrower for the institution 09:41 kados koha doesn't really have any built-in ILL features that I know of 09:41 owen For MORE requests, each branch has a MORE-specific account 09:41 kados paul: how do your libraries handle this? 09:41 owen So items are recorded as being checked out to MORE, but the specific institution isn't recorded in Koha. 09:41 kados ILL = Inter Library Loan 09:41 kados right 09:42 kados boy, that seems like a great way to lose track of where items are 09:42 owen Yeah, the disadvantage is that you have to cross-reference the titles on the MORE account to the record of what items are still on loan to you in the MORE system 09:43 kados we need some ILL categories with institutions and ability to record borrower ids even 09:43 kados tha's probably going to be a requirement before NCIP will work 09:44 owen I'm not sure I know what you mean 09:44 paul kados : my libraries uses a borrower category & borrower card & issuing rules specific for ILL 09:44 paul nothing more. 09:44 kados yay ... Fedora Core 4 is released! 09:44 kados paul: I see 09:45 kados owen: well we should be able to add institutions as 'borrowers' and specify borrowers of those institutions as having an item on loan 09:45 kados owen: or reserve, etc. 09:46 paul there is a standard for ILL. 09:46 paul like iso2709 09:46 kados right 09:46 kados but NCIP goes beyond this 09:46 paul but Koha does nothing about it. 09:46 kados right 09:46 paul will be for 4.0 ;-) 09:46 kados hehe 09:46 owen The current MORE mailing label list consists of 376 institutions, just to give you an idea of how many we're talking about. 09:47 kados not too bad 09:47 kados we dont' really need any information on anyone that doesn't have one of our items out 09:47 kados (in fact, we don't need to keep track of anyone really) 09:47 kados (but it might be nice to have a borrower id or something) 11:06 owen hi shaun. Long time no see. 11:14 shaun hi owen (signed in and went off) 11:16 shaun i've got my proposal into school now, but the other librarians were disappointed with the lack of figures, so I need to get in touch with a professional support agency before we go any further 11:17 kados shaun: professional support agency? 11:18 shaun kados gets excited ;) 11:18 shaun do you have any base in the UK? 11:18 kados shaun: hehe yep 11:18 kados shaun: I could handle a UK account 11:19 kados shaun: but you should talk to MJ first 11:19 shaun yep, I was hoping to talk to him 11:19 shaun would you ssh? I suppose it would cost far too much for you to get over here 11:20 kados yea ... I'd mail the configured server ... and ssh for configuration and updates, etc. 11:20 kados I'd also probably be able to setup a toll-free line for UK if I had one account there 11:20 owen Oooh, would it be shiny and green? 11:21 shaun I think they would feel safer with somebody actually based in the UK, so I will get in touch with MJ/slef first 11:21 kados hehe ... no ... we're not crazy like katipo ;-) 11:21 kados right ... sounds good 11:21 kados let me know if you need a proposal 11:23 shaun I have written up a proposal for everything except the support costings, so that's where you/MJ have to come in 11:24 shaun have you supported schools before? 11:24 kados nope ... just public libraries 11:25 kados but we're negociating contracts with like 4 schools at the moment (not sure if they will actually sign or not ... ) 11:25 shaun MJ said that he would be cautious over contracts with schools 11:25 kados so when you say you've written up a proposal for everything except the support costings -- what all does that entail? I wasn't aware of anything _but_ support costings ;-) 11:28 shaun everything technical, a thorough explanation of the free software model, "who are they and why should we trust them?", what to expect from 2.4, how the thing works 11:28 kados ahh ... so mainly an 'apology' for Koha and open source ... not really a proposal to do work for them 11:28 kados (LibLime's proposals include several sections on this ;-)) 11:28 shaun that's the main part of it, yeh 11:29 kados shaun: would you consider publishing this report on kohadocs.org? 11:31 shaun it's *very* specific to the school, as it compares the old library system and the new proprietary thing they were evaluating as well 11:32 shaun and it's also very much an introduction to the true concept of open source