| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 11:00 |
|
Genji |
and excited by what ive achieved with koha. |
| 11:00 |
|
paul |
<troll on> Pepsi is bad, coca is the only best</troll> |
| 11:00 |
|
Genji |
hey, i had coke this morning.. its good. |
| 11:00 |
|
paul |
(was purely a joke, i drink none, and my boys didn't too) |
| 11:00 |
|
paul |
(we just drink water & fruit juices on the morning) |
| 11:01 |
|
Genji |
hmmm.. okay.. peps say that tables don't show up the same on all browsers. not sure what that means. |
| 11:02 |
|
Genji |
ack.. i can't even use the main page with opera. |
| 11:02 |
|
paul |
the main problem with tables, is that they were NOT planned to be used to define the position of something on the screen |
| 11:02 |
|
Genji |
the main menu... |
| 11:03 |
|
paul |
you're right. |
| 11:03 |
|
Genji |
too much ie/mozilla based javascript. |
| 11:03 |
|
paul |
worked before. I'll investigate... |
| 11:03 |
|
paul |
(i use opera sometimes, as opera is available on linux !) |
| 11:05 |
|
Genji |
whats a hint class? |
| 11:05 |
|
paul |
?? |
| 11:05 |
|
Genji |
hey, you can now run linux on top of windows. Colinux. :) |
| 11:06 |
|
Genji |
<!-- RIGHT (disappearing) BLOC --> |
| 11:06 |
|
Genji |
<div id="Hint1" class="hint"> |
| 11:06 |
|
paul |
to have the bugs of Windows without the speed of Linux, no, thanks ;-) |
| 11:06 |
|
paul |
(and i have no legal licence of Windows anyway !) |
| 11:06 |
|
paul |
it's a CSS class just to put the white box on the left. |
| 11:06 |
|
Genji |
Opera supports hint classes? |
| 11:06 |
|
paul |
i modified it to work on IE, but seems it has broken something for OPera... |
| 11:07 |
|
paul |
hint is not a pre defined class |
| 11:07 |
|
paul |
in CSS, you can define the class name you need |
| 11:07 |
|
Genji |
ah. okay. |
| 11:07 |
|
paul |
go to templates/default/en/includes/commonstyles.css |
| 11:07 |
|
paul |
and search hint |
| 11:08 |
|
paul |
you'll find how it's defined. |
| 11:08 |
|
paul |
probably a problem with margin-left or something like that |
| 11:09 |
|
Genji |
actually, its intranet-main.ccs |
| 11:11 |
|
Genji |
Doubled margin-left, no diff. |
| 11:11 |
|
Genji |
i think its the javascript... not sure... |
| 11:11 |
|
Genji |
the menu should still show if its ccs prob? |
| 11:12 |
|
paul |
in fact, the menu is hidden by the hint "circulation", that is the last one, and is not enough on the right. |
| 11:14 |
|
Genji |
ahh.. interesting. |
| 11:15 |
|
Genji |
so the fix is? |
| 11:16 |
|
paul |
just need tests... |
| 11:16 |
|
paul |
i'm not a CSS warlord, just a basis fighter ;-) |
| 11:17 |
|
Genji |
why are we using these fancy javascript menus anyway? |
| 11:17 |
|
paul |
no good reason. Just to have a sexy mainpage... |
| 11:18 |
|
Genji |
one that a opera user can't use. |
| 11:18 |
|
paul |
no, of course ;-) |
| 11:18 |
|
paul |
if you have another one that is sexy and works on any browser, let us know ! |
| 11:19 |
|
Genji |
the old mainpage was good. |
| 11:23 |
|
paul |
but untranslatable... |
| 11:23 |
|
paul |
as hints were pictures |
| 11:23 |
|
paul |
(& the "Koha a gift, a contribution text") |
| 11:23 |
|
paul |
don't forget some librarians are happy to see Koha in their native language ;-) |
| 11:24 |
|
Genji |
true... okay.. its 3:23 am.. and fatiage is hitting my body. what time your usually up to? |
| 11:25 |
|
Genji |
up/online. |
| 11:25 |
|
paul |
... |
| 11:25 |
|
paul |
7AM-17AM (GMT) |
| 11:25 |
|
paul |
i'm just 12H from you. |
| 11:26 |
|
paul |
when 8AM for you, 8PM for me. |
| 11:26 |
|
paul |
which is the worst thing we could expect |
| 11:26 |
|
Genji |
so, you knock off in 2 hours, then? |
| 11:26 |
|
paul |
say 3 |
| 11:26 |
|
paul |
and a half |
| 11:26 |
|
Genji |
hmmm... nah. can't stay up. bed looks really good right now. |
| 11:27 |
|
paul |
:-D |
| 11:27 |
|
Genji |
what do you think of the object orientated shelf tree? |
| 11:27 |
|
paul |
I think it's a good idea |
| 11:28 |
|
paul |
but I don't see yet how to code it... |
| 11:28 |
|
Genji |
how would you implement it, with the new permissions code? |
| 11:28 |
|
paul |
that's what i don't see for instance. |
| 11:29 |
|
Genji |
i mean, i can code the basic virtual shelf.. but tying the permissions code into it.. im just not sure how to. |
| 11:30 |
|
paul |
do what you can, and, free software miracle, someone will complete it ! |
| 11:30 |
|
paul |
(me or someone else) |
| 11:30 |
|
Genji |
Virtual shelf tree table (shelfparent int, shelfchild int) |
| 11:31 |
|
Genji |
main shelf defined as a systempreference. |
| 11:32 |
|
Genji |
example data... (1,3)(3,4)(4,5) |
| 11:33 |
|
paul |
yes, I understand this. The next topic being to have a opac-page to "swim" into virtual shelves |
| 11:33 |
|
Genji |
or, resolved to names, maybe (Main hall,General)(General,Buddhism)(Buddhism,Zen) |
| 11:35 |
|
Genji |
AHHA! |
| 11:35 |
|
paul |
yes, and how do you fill your virtual shelves ? |
| 11:35 |
|
Genji |
new itemtype "intranet" |
| 11:35 |
|
paul |
for a 100 000 library book, it's really a huge job ! |
| 11:36 |
|
Genji |
a web link, that when put into a virtual shelf, is a instant web link, rather than a click for details. |
| 11:36 |
|
Genji |
point the intranet web link at another shelf... |
| 11:36 |
|
Genji |
that would work? |
| 11:38 |
|
Genji |
for our library, our subject areas are going to have barcodes on their labels. |
| 11:38 |
|
Genji |
we type in the subject areas, map the parent-child relationships, scan the books into the subject areas. |
| 11:39 |
|
Genji |
simultaniously stocktaking( updating last seen) and filling the virtual shelves. |
| 11:39 |
|
paul |
very good suggestion ! |
| 11:42 |
|
Genji |
hmmm... virtual shelf-add new item, listbox of itemtypes, select shelve, shows you a dropdown of shelves, select one, and thats added to the current virtual shelf. |
| 11:46 |
|
Genji |
in shelfcontents, what are possible flags, currently? |
| 11:59 |
|
Genji |
ohhh! flags is unused, there for future use... okay.. ill use it. |
| 12:00 |
|
Genji |
flag set to 1 equals shelfitem is another virtual shelf, so go to it when clicked. |
| 12:06 |
|
Genji |
okay, going to bed, but keeping this open. |
| 12:09 |
|
paul |
g'night |
| 12:09 |
|
paul |
hello owen |
| 12:09 |
|
paul |
g'morning |
| 12:10 |
|
owen |
Hi paul. I just sent you an email--I don't get any online help for ISBD. Are you sure it's there? |
| 12:10 |
|
paul |
yes, it's in Koha >> Parameters >> systempreferences >> Help |
| 12:11 |
|
owen |
when I click 'help' it says there isn't any help for that topic. |
| 12:11 |
|
paul |
are you with default template or npl ? |
| 12:11 |
|
owen |
css |
| 12:11 |
|
paul |
and language english. |
| 12:11 |
|
paul |
mmm... strange. |
| 12:11 |
|
owen |
yes |
| 12:12 |
|
paul |
what do you have after "insecure" parameter help ? |
| 12:12 |
|
paul |
ok, I understand |
| 12:12 |
|
paul |
i have not commited online help :-( |
| 12:12 |
|
paul |
so it's in 2.2.0RC1 official, but not on CVS... |
| 12:13 |
|
owen |
That explains it! |
| 12:13 |
|
paul |
ok, it's on CVS now ! |
| 12:13 |
|
paul |
can you update immediatly or you want a copy ? |
| 12:13 |
|
paul |
here |
| 12:13 |
|
paul |
? |
| 12:14 |
|
owen |
Thanks! :) I'll update. |
| 12:15 |
|
paul |
(you can see it on bureau.paulpoulain.com:808/cgi-bin/koha/opac-ISBDdetail.pl?bib=2369) |
| 12:15 |
|
paul |
8081 NOT 808 |
| 12:19 |
|
owen |
Is 'default' the most current template now? |
| 12:21 |
|
paul |
for librarian intranet, css does not exist, so Koha automatically uses default |
| 12:21 |
|
paul |
for OPAC, default is useless, css is OK |
| 12:27 |
|
owen |
Should the variable type for the ISBD system preference value be textarea? |
| 12:28 |
|
owen |
No, that doesn't seem to work |
| 12:28 |
|
paul |
yes, that should. |
| 12:28 |
|
paul |
use EXACTLY the typo as shown : |
| 12:28 |
|
paul |
Textarea iirc |
| 12:28 |
|
paul |
with row|colums under |
| 12:29 |
|
paul |
works fine for me |
| 12:29 |
|
owen |
Oh, I forgot about the row|columns |
| 12:29 |
|
owen |
On our installation is comes up as 'free'. I'm not sure why |
| 12:33 |
|
owen |
If I enter this: #245|Title: {245a}| Shouldn't that display the contents of the 245 tag, subfield a? |
| 12:33 |
|
paul |
yes. except you need 1 more | |
| 12:34 |
|
paul |
#245|Title:|{245a}| |
| 12:35 |
|
owen |
I see. |
| 12:37 |
|
owen |
By the way, this link in the intranet doesn't work for me: /cgi-bin/koha/bookshelves/shelves.pl |
| 13:08 |
|
paul |
owen, about shelves |
| 13:08 |
|
paul |
seems there is a cvs problem too |
| 13:08 |
|
paul |
i'm fixing it |
| 13:08 |
|
owen |
Thanks |
| 14:08 |
|
paul |
2.2.0RC2 has been released |
| 15:47 |
|
kados |
paul around? |
| 16:07 |
|
owen |
no, but I am now |
| 16:08 |
|
kados |
hey owen :-) |
| 16:08 |
|
owen |
How's it going? |
| 16:08 |
|
kados |
pretty good |
| 16:08 |
|
kados |
how about you? |
| 16:09 |
|
owen |
Just looking into Gloria's post about subject searches... |
| 16:10 |
|
kados |
right ... |
| 16:10 |
|
kados |
I was going to ask paul whether he'd thought much about subject searches in Koha 2.2 |
| 16:12 |
|
owen |
It's different that the way our production version works. It doesn't bring up the list of subject headings anymore. |
| 16:12 |
|
owen |
...but I don't know what fields it searches. |
| 16:13 |
|
kados |
gloria must be talking about intranet searches ... the opac seems to work normally |
| 16:14 |
|
kados |
yep ... /me checks the logs |
| 16:15 |
|
owen |
Is there an error? |
| 16:16 |
|
kados |
I don't see one yet |
| 16:16 |
|
kados |
for that prob |
| 16:16 |
|
kados |
there are a few other errors: |
| 16:16 |
|
kados |
[Fri Nov 19 13:45:43 2004] [error] [client 192.168.5.27] File does not exist: /usr/local/koha/intranet/htdocs/favicon.ico |
| 16:16 |
|
owen |
What is all that 'Duplicate entry '3400000000'? |
| 16:16 |
|
kados |
Doing a precise search |
| 16:16 |
|
kados |
DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Duplicate entry '340000000' for key 2 at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules/C4/Biblio.pm line 1519. |
| 16:16 |
|
kados |
I've no idea |
| 16:19 |
|
kados |
it's in the OLDdelitem subrouting |
| 16:20 |
|
slef |
hello... Does anyone know when paul will return? |
| 16:20 |
|
kados |
not sure slef |
| 16:20 |
|
owen |
Paul's probably off for the night. |
| 16:21 |
|
kados |
he's usually here only in the mornings |
| 16:21 |
|
owen |
(our mornings) |
| 16:21 |
|
kados |
us mornings that is :-) |
| 16:21 |
|
slef |
he left just over 2h ago, says whowas |
| 16:21 |
|
slef |
oh well, I'll fix the bug and send email |
| 16:22 |
|
kados |
so for you that'd be early afternoon slef (its what about 7ish now in UK?) |
| 16:23 |
|
slef |
1920 or so here now |
| 16:24 |
|
slef |
ah, bug didn't exist |
| 16:24 |
|
slef |
the best kind of bug :) |
| 16:24 |
|
kados |
which bug? |
| 16:24 |
|
slef |
who's ragni? |
| 16:25 |
|
slef |
No bug. It didn't exist. Don't worry about it. |
| 16:25 |
|
slef |
odd |
| 16:25 |
|
slef |
rangi = Chris Cormack, but koha-announce is maintained by ragni |
| 16:26 |
|
kados |
rangi? |
| 16:26 |
|
slef |
typo in the list config? |
| 16:26 |
|
kados |
must be |
| 16:26 |
|
chris |
weird, pat musta typo'd when he shifted it over to me .. |
| 16:26 |
|
kados |
bug it :-) |
| 16:27 |
|
slef |
chris: can you fix and approve the recent queued announces? |
| 16:27 |
|
kados |
hey chris |
| 16:27 |
|
chris |
yep ill see if i can, i havent been getting any mail .. probably cos its sending it to ragni :) ill see |
| 16:27 |
|
chris |
i can do it now |
| 16:27 |
|
slef |
cool, tyvm |
| 16:27 |
|
chris |
the dogs have woken me up, so theres no going back to bed |
| 16:28 |
|
slef |
I need to reskew my day... currently working 9-11 and 15-21, which isn't ideal |
| 16:28 |
|
chris |
i need to figure some way to make the dogs want to sleep in on weekends :-) |
| 16:29 |
|
chris |
cant see it happening |
| 16:29 |
|
slef |
oh yeah, it's tomorrow for you ;-) |
| 16:29 |
|
slef |
Have you considered drugging their food? >:-> |
| 16:29 |
|
chris |
perhaps something not quite that drastic :) |
| 16:30 |
|
kados |
yea well sugar gliders are nocturnal :-) |
| 16:30 |
|
kados |
so I am sorta forced to get up every couple of hours |
| 16:30 |
|
chris |
ahh |
| 16:30 |
|
chris |
ok, typo fixed, and message approved |
| 16:31 |
|
kados |
last night they got into my insectivore terrariam and ate some of my prized venus flytraps |
| 16:32 |
|
chris |
ack |
| 16:32 |
|
chris |
so they have free rein of the house at night? |
| 16:32 |
|
kados |
pretty much |
| 16:32 |
|
owen |
kados, it sounds like you've got quite a menagerie |
| 16:33 |
|
kados |
I close out the kitchen and bathroom but the bedroom/living room is pretty much theirs |
| 16:36 |
|
slef |
what's a sugar glider? |
| 16:39 |
|
owen |
http://www.skinhorse.net/gliders/ |
| 16:40 |
|
owen |
http://www.chaffeezoo.org/anim[…]/sugarGlider.html |
| 16:48 |
|
owen |
kados: it looks like Gloria's problem is a real bug. The same thing happens in the 2.2 default template. |
| 16:48 |
|
owen |
I wonder how long that's been broken? |
| 16:50 |
|
slef |
"lost all its body weight and turned into a towel" - it'll be happy when the h2g2 movie is released next summer then? |
| 16:51 |
|
kados |
slef: exactly, I never leave the house without my towels ;-) |
| 16:52 |
|
kados |
owen: it's strange that noone noticed it before now |
| 17:32 |
|
kados |
hehe, sage (one of the gliders) just woke up for a minute just in time for a photo opp |
| 17:32 |
|
kados |
http://kados.org/images/sage.gif |
| 17:33 |
|
chris |
heh |
| 17:33 |
|
owen |
Cute! |
| 17:33 |
|
owen |
How long have you had them? |
| 17:34 |
|
kados |
willow (the other one) is in there too but she's a deep sleeper |
| 17:34 |
|
kados |
about 4 months or so I guess |
| 18:35 |
|
GenjiNapp |
hiya slef. |
| 18:39 |
|
kados |
this has to be some kind of record: |
| 18:39 |
|
kados |
koha:/usr/local/koha/log# uptime |
| 18:39 |
|
kados |
16:33:21 up 68 days, 4:31, 4 users, load average: 137.92, 127.03, 80.62 |
| 18:42 |
|
kados |
I've got lots of 9136 www-data 20 0 7696 7692 1596 R 2.5 0.3 0:00 mainpage.pl |
| 18:42 |
|
kados |
when I run top |
| 18:43 |
|
kados |
chris around? |
| 18:44 |
|
kados |
our load averate is usually about .33 or so |
| 18:44 |
|
kados |
so 137.92 is really bad |
| 18:48 |
|
kados |
I've disabled apache till I can get things under control |
| 18:49 |
|
kados |
the marc_word table is corrupted so that may be one problem |
| 19:00 |
|
kados |
I think that when marc_word got corrupted (for whatever reason) that triggered a lot of defunct processes and caused the high load |
| 19:00 |
|
kados |
chris does that sound plausable? |
| 19:00 |
|
kados |
marc_word is so huge that it's taking forever to repair |
| 19:01 |
|
kados |
should finish up in about 5 minutes owen |
| 19:02 |
|
owen |
Thanks Joshua. I'm heading out. Good luck. |
| 19:02 |
|
kados |
take care owen |
| 19:20 |
|
kados |
chris around? |
| 19:21 |
|
chris |
sorta |
| 19:21 |
|
chris |
still got load troubles? |
| 19:22 |
|
kados |
no I think I got it fixed |
| 19:22 |
|
chris |
cool |
| 19:23 |
|
kados |
just wondering about that security you were mentioning online |
| 19:23 |
|
kados |
on the list I mean |
| 19:23 |
|
kados |
what kinds of measures do you take for your koha systems? |
| 19:30 |
|
chris |
well, not making the librarian interface available to the world is the main one |
| 19:30 |
|
kados |
right and that's done be replacing the allow from right? |
| 19:31 |
|
chris |
you can do it that way |
| 19:32 |
|
chris |
or just have the virtualhost only listening on the local interface |
| 19:32 |
|
kados |
ahh |
| 19:33 |
|
kados |
I didn't know about that one |
| 19:34 |
|
chris |
say if its listening to somedomain.that.only.resolves.internally |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
and I'd have to set up that somedomain with an internal DNS server |
| 19:35 |
|
chris |
then no one can get to it, otherwise you can put it behind some authentication |
| 19:35 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
which I don't have right now |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
hmmm |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
I'm in the middle of a security audit |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
we're basically screwed =[ |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
I've got to start patching this stuff |
| 19:41 |
|
chris |
which stuff? |
| 19:47 |
|
kados |
si are you around? |
| 20:36 |
|
Genji |
anyone active? |
| 21:18 |
|
kados |
hey Genji |
| 21:18 |
|
kados |
still around? |
| 21:27 |
|
kados |
wow that's interesting ... I just noticed that OpenBSD has an ISBN |
| 21:27 |
|
kados |
3.6 Release: |
| 21:27 |
|
kados |
Released November 1, 2004 |
| 21:27 |
|
kados |
Copyright 1997-2004, Theo de Raadt. |
| 21:27 |
|
kados |
ISBN 0-9731791-4-7 |
| 00:18 |
|
si |
joshua: what sort of bandwidth runs between the libraries? |
| 00:18 |
|
kados |
well our network has changed quite a bit over the past year |
| 00:18 |
|
si |
and over what media (frame relay, ethernet, t1, ISDN? |
| 00:18 |
|
kados |
for th branches that are directly connected we hav et1s |
| 00:19 |
|
kados |
but a couple of our branches have cablemodem or dsl |
| 00:19 |
|
kados |
the bandwidth is about 500Mb for those branches |
| 00:19 |
|
si |
Kb, preumably |
| 00:19 |
|
kados |
sorry yea |
| 00:20 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 00:20 |
|
si |
a 500Mb cable modem would indeed be a thing of beauty :) |
| 00:20 |
|
kados |
sure would |
| 00:20 |
|
kados |
so the t1s are 1.5 Mb :-) |
| 00:20 |
|
si |
and you've got cisco's on the E1's, prolly 160x or 25xx class devices? |
| 00:20 |
|
kados |
sorry the're T1s |
| 00:21 |
|
si |
and who knows what on the cable modems/dsl? |
| 00:21 |
|
kados |
yea 25xxs |
| 00:21 |
|
si |
yes, sorry, T1's are E1's here, |
| 00:21 |
|
kados |
well actually ... two of our branches also have a wireless connection |
| 00:21 |
|
kados |
it's VPN to our main library |
| 00:21 |
|
kados |
so they have 2500s |
| 00:22 |
|
kados |
our T1 libraries have 2500s |
| 00:22 |
|
kados |
our main library has a 4500 (which takes in all those 2500s) |
| 00:22 |
|
si |
and what's the problem - lack of available support for the Cisco's, or some more specifc security issue? |
| 00:22 |
|
kados |
this was a good idea a few years ago before cable and dsl got so cheap |
| 00:23 |
|
kados |
right no support on the Ciscos |
| 00:23 |
|
kados |
and I'm afraid there are probably major security vulnerabilities on such old systsms |
| 00:24 |
|
si |
my perspective is that PC's make great routers/firewalls if you can render any given problem into one of routing ethernet |
| 00:24 |
|
kados |
we're gradually seeing our network become less centralized (cause the price of cable or dsl is about 10% of our T1s) |
| 00:24 |
|
si |
if you need to handle exotic telco media, then PC's become a lot less compelling, vs buying a box from the likes of Cisco |
| 00:24 |
|
kados |
so I expect that within a few months most of our libraries will be running on cable or dsl |
| 00:25 |
|
si |
ie, if you need isdn or t1 or atm or similar, then most of the cost justifications of PC's tend to go out the window |
| 00:25 |
|
kados |
but these lines will only have one static address |
| 00:25 |
|
si |
right |
| 00:25 |
|
kados |
so we'll need to do dhcp and dns |
| 00:25 |
|
si |
and if you move to DSL or CM, then your edge adapters basically become ethernet |
| 00:25 |
|
kados |
right |
| 00:26 |
|
si |
because they cable service probably comes with a modem that does cable to ethernet bridging |
| 00:26 |
|
kados |
so pcs are good routers in that scenario right? |
| 00:26 |
|
kados |
router/dns/dhcp? |
| 00:26 |
|
si |
and DSL to ethernet routers are about US$50 a throw |
| 00:26 |
|
si |
yes, for that sort of environment, PC's make a pretty good choice |
| 00:26 |
|
kados |
well we don't actually have to pay for the dsl/cable to ethernet |
| 00:26 |
|
kados |
the telco takes care of that cost |
| 00:27 |
|
si |
yes, it often comes as part of the service |
| 00:27 |
|
kados |
they expect you to have the hub/dhcp server/nics |
| 00:27 |
|
si |
which you presumably do, in the main |
| 00:27 |
|
kados |
and a firewall of course |
| 00:27 |
|
kados |
right |
| 00:27 |
|
kados |
the prob is our budget is so bad we need really cheap machines |
| 00:28 |
|
si |
but you want to maintain reliability |
| 00:28 |
|
si |
always an interesting tradeoff |
| 00:28 |
|
kados |
we have seven branches all of which NEED a firewall/dhcp server/dns server |
| 00:28 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 00:28 |
|
si |
by DNS server you presumably mean a caching proxy, rather than something authoratitve? |
| 00:28 |
|
kados |
I"m thinking we could spend about 200 per branch |
| 00:29 |
|
si |
what sor of VPN requirements do you have between branches? |
| 00:29 |
|
kados |
well chris mentioned the advantage of haveing something athorititave would be security for Koha |
| 00:29 |
|
kados |
none really |
| 00:29 |
|
kados |
we just need to make sure our koha authentication is secure |
| 00:29 |
|
kados |
accross thosehostile netowrks |
| 00:30 |
|
si |
so you need an https server, and a trusted DNS infrastructure |
| 00:30 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 00:30 |
|
kados |
well https is tricky ... I didn't think you could do that with virtual hosts |
| 00:30 |
|
si |
I've deployed a lot of these things: http://www.soekris.com/ |
| 00:31 |
|
kados |
I was looking at them eariler they look like they're in our price range |
| 00:31 |
|
kados |
do you think they would handle DNS and DHCP as well as a firewall for each branch? |
| 00:31 |
|
si |
they're interesting - they behave pretty much like a low end PC |
| 00:32 |
|
si |
yes, we have loads deployed in that sort of environment |
| 00:32 |
|
kados |
sweet ... and the data speeds aren't going to bog them down, eh? |
| 00:32 |
|
si |
depending on your OS choice and firewalling, they'll happily route at up to 20Mb/s, and bridge at 40Mb/s |
| 00:32 |
|
si |
that's the 4501 |
| 00:32 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 00:32 |
|
si |
the 4801'a are a bit faster |
| 00:32 |
|
kados |
that's plenty fast for ue |
| 00:33 |
|
kados |
us |
| 00:33 |
|
si |
in terms of code to run on them, you're somewhat spoilt for choice |
| 00:33 |
|
si |
which is a nice way of saying there is no one clear leader |
| 00:33 |
|
kados |
well I've played with OpenBSD a bit |
| 00:33 |
|
si |
there are web pages that discuss cutting down openbsd to fit on a CF |
| 00:34 |
|
kados |
yea I figured ... I just wanted to get some confirmation from real world scenarios as to whether it was worth the investment, etc. |
| 00:35 |
|
si |
at Citylink, we've been deploying PC's as routers for customers for about 8 years now |
| 00:35 |
|
si |
initially floppy boot, then CF in IDE adapters, and so forth |
| 00:35 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 00:35 |
|
si |
using all sorts of hardware, biscuit PC's, small (micro-ATX) std PC's, all sorts of oddball bits |
| 00:36 |
|
si |
depending on what was available |
| 00:36 |
|
si |
the nice thing about the soekris units is that they've allowed us to standarddise |
| 00:36 |
|
kados |
yea ... that's my goal too |
| 00:36 |
|
kados |
right now everything is haywire |
| 00:36 |
|
si |
the problem with using desktop PC hardware is that it's really difficult to get contenuity of supply for more than a few months |
| 00:36 |
|
kados |
do you ssh into those machines or do you disable ssh? |
| 00:37 |
|
si |
you get everything dialed on a specific set of hardware, and then it's no longer available |
| 00:37 |
|
kados |
yea I hate that |
| 00:37 |
|
si |
if you want something with a bit more herb, and can afford something a little bigger physically, then we've also had reasonable success with mini-ITX boards |
| 00:37 |
|
kados |
upgrades become almost impossible cause the hardware doesn't exist any more |
| 00:38 |
|
si |
they're not a lot bigger, and can still be run fanless |
| 00:38 |
|
si |
fanless is really important, as is decent power supplies |
| 00:38 |
|
si |
even the soekris units go wacky if you don't give them enough amps |
| 00:38 |
|
si |
on our soekris boxes we run Bering |
| 00:38 |
|
kados |
thanks for all the advice si |
| 00:38 |
|
si |
which is a severly cut down debian |
| 00:38 |
|
kados |
Bering? |
| 00:39 |
|
kados |
ahh |
| 00:39 |
|
kados |
not bsd? |
| 00:39 |
|
si |
and we run ssh on them |
| 00:39 |
|
kados |
why Bering over openbsd? |
| 00:39 |
|
si |
and a couple of really newbie ex cablers |
| 00:39 |
|
si |
and bering uses shorewall |
| 00:40 |
|
si |
which is a firewalling overlay on top of iptables |
| 00:40 |
|
si |
that makes firewalling on linux comprehensible |
| 00:40 |
|
si |
since iptables sure as hell isn't |
| 00:40 |
|
kados |
ahh |
| 00:40 |
|
kados |
iptables is pretty tough |
| 00:40 |
|
si |
so with something like 200 routers deployed, I've got a retraining issue if we change them |
| 00:41 |
|
si |
we've played with monowall |
| 00:41 |
|
si |
http://m0n0.ch/wall/ |
| 00:41 |
|
si |
which is very slick, and great if you need an http GUI to manage the router |
| 00:41 |
|
si |
but not as featurefull as our Bering load. |
| 00:42 |
|
si |
we also use vtun and openvpn on top of Bering, which allows us to do ethernet bridging between different locations, over IP |
| 00:42 |
|
kados |
that sounds pretty useful |
| 00:43 |
|
si |
it's useful in our environment - it means we don't have to get involved with customer routing |
| 00:43 |
|
kados |
Thanks si ... I've gotta run but I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out |
| 00:43 |
|
si |
it becomse a more classic "packets you push in here, come out over there" type service |
| 00:43 |
|
si |
no worries |
| 00:43 |
|
si |
one other site to look at |
| 00:43 |
|
si |
http://nexcom.com.tw/ |
| 00:44 |
|
si |
is particularly loony |
| 00:44 |
|
si |
but they do have great 1U boxes for PIII and P4, with lots of ethernet ports |
| 00:44 |
|
si |
we use them for high end |
| 00:44 |
|
si |
http://nsa.nexcom.com.tw/index.jsp |
| 10:19 |
|
slef |
ho hum... left this connected overnight |
| 10:19 |
|
slef |
hi all |
