IRC log for #koha, 2014-08-06

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 tcohen heh
00:01 dcook That can't be a real bug..
00:01 rangi 11244
00:02 * dcook was just doing the process of elimination
00:02 dcook hehe
00:03 tcohen not even the linux kernel bugzilla has that bug number
00:03 tcohen night
00:04 rangi night
00:14 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10220 IDs on checkin columns <[…]29bcd33ab9c060820>
00:38 NateC joined #koha
00:41 pianohacker heh, has mozilla hit the millions yet?
00:42 dcook Dang, they do seem to have a lot...
00:51 eythian[…]l-tiemann-red-hat <-- dcook, for your OSDC talk
00:51 dcook Never heard about about that so not sure it's a thing, but thanks!
00:52 eythian neither have I yet, but that's not too unexpected
00:53 eythian it looks like the CFP is still open, too.
00:58 dcook Hmm, interesting.
00:58 wahanui hmmm... interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
01:25 * dcook wonders how people manage their authorities in Koha
01:25 dcook I'm planning to upload 600,000+ authorities into Koha
01:26 dcook Store the 001 from the original system in the 035
01:26 dcook Then upload annual updates using the 001 from those updates against the 035 for the existing records
01:26 dcook In theory, that should work perfectly
01:26 dcook But...I'll have to tweak Zebra to do it...which makes me wonder what folks do now...
01:26 * dcook assumes that people don't update their authorities
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01:27 * dcook looks at record matching rules more...
01:30 dcook Ah...except I don't think you can compare different fields...
01:34 dcook Oh wait...yes it does
01:34 dcook Derp
01:35 dcook Muahahahaha
01:35 dcook Except...that still won't work
01:35 dcook Unless...
01:35 wahanui unless is probably meant to give code that reads more like natural language? but i'm not a fan either
01:36 dcook Marc modification templates might work for this...
01:40 dcook Hmmm
01:41 dcook Well that's special...
01:41 dcook Turns out importing an authority using matching rules will overwrite the 001...
01:41 dcook That's not good...
01:41 dcook (I imagine)
01:55 dcook Interesting... "authid" really is just the auth_header.authid column...hmmm
01:58 dcook So really your 001 can be anything you want...
01:59 mtj hey dcook
01:59 dcook heya mtj
02:00 mtj i have been poking at a similar AUTH task to yours
02:00 dcook Neato!
02:00 dcook I'd love to hear about it :)
02:02 mtj importing newer LA auth records into a koha, matching on 035 strings
02:02 dcook Intriguing
02:02 dcook Are you moving the 001 from the LA records into the 035?
02:03 mtj actually i cant remember if i matched on 035 or 001, atm
02:03 dcook If you didn't changing the indexing, it would be 001
02:03 mtj ok, its 001 then :)
02:03 dcook Because Koha doesn't index 035 by default
02:03 dcook Interesting
02:03 wahanui rumour has it Interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:03 dcook So how are you importing the records in the beginning?
02:04 mtj ./ -v -a -m ISO2709 -file ~/formal_extra_final_10184.aut
02:04 dcook Mmm, same
02:04 dcook Well, actually
02:04 dcook I used -keepid=035a
02:04 dcook To move the 001 into the 035a
02:05 dcook In your case, I imagine you're nuking the 001?
02:05 dcook Unless doesn't do that..
02:05 mtj then a --update for the following files...
02:05 mtj ./ -u -v -a -file  ./NCG-20140212-18_00_44-All-titles.prd
02:06 mtj i dont seem to have required any more tricks than that ^^
02:07 dcook Interesting
02:07 wahanui Interesting is, like, sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:07 dcook I'm surprised that would update properly
02:07 dcook Because -u will match on the 001
02:07 mtj record matching seemed to 'just work'
02:07 dcook Unless doesn't nuke the 001 and replace it with the authid from auth_header...
02:07 dcook Which it probably doesn't
02:07 dcook Interesting
02:07 wahanui well, Interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:07 dcook Thanks for that, mtj :)
02:08 dcook Ideally, we should be using a Koha-specific number in 001, and put LA's 001 in the 016$a or 035$a...
02:08 dcook Probably 016$a according to the spec
02:08 mtj ah ok
02:09 dcook But...*shrug*
02:09 dcook I can't be too fussed over this
02:09 dcook If I were really fussed over everything, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning :p
02:10 dcook Ahh, yep, as I expected
02:11 dcook won't replace the 001 unless you use -keepid=FIELD
02:12 dcook That's probably a bug...
02:12 dcook But fixing that will screw up the workflow for others (like yourself)
02:13 dcook Which could get nasty when importing records...
02:14 mtj hmm, this is stuff i havent considered yet, to be honest
02:14 dcook I don't think anyone ever considers it ;)
02:14 mtj i'll take a closer look next tme i work on it
02:15 * dcook shrugs
02:15 dcook Your workflow works, which is good
02:15 dcook The only downside would be if someone imported records via the web UI
02:16 dcook Because that will toss the 001 and put authid there instead
02:19 dcook Ideally, I think the 001 would be a unique number that we would also store in the DB and use for linking records together
02:19 dcook (the 001 for both authorities and bibliographic records)
02:19 dcook I suppose there is some difficulty with that though..
02:19 dcook So maybe not store in the DB...
02:19 dcook Well, stored in the DB but maybe not as the primary key
02:20 dcook I don't know.
02:27 dcook I don't know about this stuff either
02:28 dcook Now that I think about it, perhaps it is appropriate to leave the 001 untouched
02:28 dcook An organization receiving a record may move the incoming control number from field 001 (and the control number identifier from field 003) to field 035 (System Control Number), 010 (Library of Congress Control Number), or 016 (National Bibliographic Agency Control Number), as appropriate, and place its own system control number in field 001 (and its control number identifier in field 003).
02:28 dcook
02:30 dcook Same for authorities..
02:30 dcook Since it's "may", you could never count on 001 as a local number really...
02:30 dcook MARC--
02:39 dcook mtj: Now that I think about it... wouldn't -u not work that well?
02:39 dcook I'm just looking at the documentation now, but it looks like that's supposed to only update existing authorities
02:39 dcook Not add missing ones
02:40 dcook Hmm, the documentation looks like it might be wrong...
02:47 dcook mtj++
02:47 dcook I think I'm going to use your method. Cheers :)
02:48 mtj afaik, the -u arg did add new unmatched records too (as i hoped)
02:48 dcook Yep, it does
02:49 dcook The documentation is wrong :/
03:01 dcook Hmm, trying to think of all the ways to import authorities...
03:01 dcook Staged MARC Management, Z39.50 Authority Search,
03:28 mtj dcook: thats all , i think... ^^
03:31 dcook Me too
03:31 dcook Btw, mtj, you might want to look at your action_logs
03:32 dcook If you have logging for authorities turned on, your action_logs will fill up when using for authorities
04:14 eythian There's a terrible annoyance with the plugin system. When you upload files using them, they go onto the system with 666 perms. a) other-writable is bad, b) some of them may need to be 755 and you have to manually update that.
04:14 eythian .zip is a silly format on unix machines.
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04:16 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
04:16 mtompset How accurate is[…]/Translating_Koha
04:18 eythian I'm not sure, but that is pretty accurate:
04:24 dcook Bahaha
04:24 dcook This guy is fantastic
04:26 eythian he does a lot of videos on various interesting things that are good.
04:26 dcook Apparently Korean is super interesting when it comes to counting
04:26 dcook No, not counting
04:26 dcook Placement I think...
04:26 dcook He seems like he'd be good for a few things
04:28 mtompset Good video.
04:32 mtompset Have a great day, #koha eythian dcook.
04:33 * dcook ponders patching
04:34 dcook But...
04:34 dcook Well, not the actual patching. Just the process...
04:35 dcook fix is
04:35 dcook fix?
04:35 wahanui somebody said fix was going to be something else
04:35 dcook fix?
04:35 wahanui fix is going to be something else
04:35 dcook hmm
04:35 dcook fix is also
04:35 wahanui okay, dcook.
04:35 dcook fix?
04:35 wahanui well, fix is going to be something else
04:35 dcook fix?
04:35 wahanui fix is probably
04:42 dcook Hehe. Like this line in "Upgrade to done (the road goes ever on)"
04:42 dcook "Upgrade to done (there is no time to rest on our laurels)"
04:45 cait joined #koha
04:46 eythian hi cait
04:46 dcook hey cait
05:01 * cait waves
05:04 dcook Hmm, I seem to recall there being an issue with system preference caching...
05:05 dcook eythian: Didn't you do a fix for that?
05:05 eythian there is, sometimes
05:05 eythian yeah
05:05 eythian I need to re-do it actually
05:05 eythian after doing it, I wrote a proper caching system, and the syspref fix doesn't use it.
05:06 dcook Hmm
05:08 dcook I suppose for now I should just use "C4::Context->disable_syspref_cache();" ?
05:08 dcook temporarily changes CataloguingLog, but it with caching it doesn't actually change...
05:08 eythian ah, that'd be an issue
05:09 dcook Totes
05:09 eythian yeah, I think then you should call that
05:09 dcook Sweet.
05:09 dcook Would I need to re-enable it afterward?
05:09 dcook I suppose for Plack setups...
05:10 eythian it's just an in-process cache, I think
05:10 eythian it's not setting any global state
05:10 dcook Admittedly, I don't know how that works with Plack :/
05:11 eythian it'll just apply to the process
05:11 dcook So that means C4::Context gets re-loaded regularly with Plack?
05:12 eythian no, you're not setting it in plack if you call it from bulkmarcimport
05:14 dcook Stop me if I'm wrong... in both Plack and non-Plack, will load C4::Context, then calling C4::Context->disable_syspref_cache(); will create a new C4::Context object and disable the syspref cache, then the object is destroyed at the end of the process?
05:14 eythian yeah, though I'm not sure that it creates a new C4::Context (it might, I can't remember.)
05:14 dcook Or is it with Plack it would only load C4::Context when Plack goes up, but the object is still created and destroyed within the process?
05:14 eythian plack has nothing to do with bulkmarcimport
05:15 eythian bulkmarcimport doesn't know nor care that you have plack somewhere else.
05:15 dcook So long as there are no "our" variables?
05:15 dcook Admittedly, I've only poked at Plack a little bit so far
05:15 eythian it's a totally different process. The only communication they have is via the database or memcache.
05:16 dcook Interesting..
05:16 wahanui i think interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
05:16 dcook So what sort of persistence does Plack provide then?
05:17 eythian it serves multiple requests with one process, so once C4::Context etc. is loaded in that particular process, it doesn't need to be loaded again.
05:19 dcook Multiple requests you say?
05:19 eythian yeah
05:19 eythian that's why it's faster
05:19 eythian the startup overhead only happens once per process
05:20 dcook And how often is a process initiated?
05:20 eythian it depends. You might have 10 on startup, and it gets killed after say 50 requests.
05:21 eythian when it's killed a new one is started.
05:22 dcook Hmm, I think that leads me to more questions, which I might not burden you with at the moment
05:22 dcook Suffice it to say, I won't bother re-enabling the syspref cache in this case :)
05:22 eythian good, because I have to leave in a few minutes :)
05:22 dcook Me too, so I should hurry up on this patch
05:29 dcook I won't get a million entries in my action_logs...
05:29 dcook Of course, I suppose I could've just turned off AuthoritiesLogging this time...
05:29 dcook Actually, I think I might do that rather than do a local patch while waiting for this one to be signed off...
05:42 dcook Interesting...if I slump forward I get sunlight reflecting off a window, but if I have proper posture there is no glare
05:42 dcook Need to get more windows around here...
06:14 pianohacker jaysis I never closed my IRC!
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07:52 cait @wunder Konstanz
07:52 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 17.7°C (9:50 AM CEST on August 06, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Falling).
07:58 Viktor joined #koha
07:59 Viktor Hi!
07:59 Viktor Is anyone aware of any work on a separate renewal fee for item types?
08:00 Viktor We have DVDs that should cost the same for each renewals while ILLs is a one off fee where renewals are free.
08:01 Viktor Asking so I don't post a duplicate thread on Bugzilla.
08:02 cait Viktor: hm I can't remember something like that
08:02 cait but we'd have a similar problem i think
08:06 Viktor It's not the end of the world of course. But it would be a welcome improvement
08:08 Viktor Then I think a bugzilla thread might be called for. But as it feels like a patch that needs to store an extra parameter in the database it might be a little over my head.
08:28 cait maybe a step by step thing
08:28 cait the change int he database is not too bad
08:29 cait i think the rental fee is charged every time
08:29 cait for checkout and for renewal
08:29 cait the hold/reserve fee is what we use for ILL
08:29 cait bit it depends on the workflow
08:30 Viktor Hm - wondering if I missed an important part
08:31 Viktor I only see rental fee under item types. Does hold/reserve fee live i syspref?
08:31 cait Viktor: ah you are right... we wanted to use it, but it's by patron category
08:31 cait it's been a while, our ill workflow is not in production yet
08:32 Viktor Ah. Glad I didn't miss an important part though :)
08:32 cait sorry for confusing
08:32 cait hm guess right now ill fee is a bit complicated
08:32 Viktor No problem. Being confused is part of the fun.
08:32 cait apart from putting it on the account manually
08:33 Viktor Yes. Manually is no fun..
08:33 Viktor Another ILL-thought. A "per item type" flag for "allow patron renewals" would be great.
08:34 Viktor DVDs is fine if they renew by themselves but ILLs require the staff to check with issuing library before allowing renewal. A "request renewal" would be better for those.
08:45 cait Viktor: hm you can do renewals in the circulation matrix
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09:02 Viktor @cait - Sorry. Browser acting up. Working away from regular computer and no IRC-client.
09:02 huginn Viktor: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
09:10 cait Viktor: i only said that for the renwals the configuratin is in the circ matrix now - so that shodl be ok
09:18 cait Viktor: ah... sorry, i am a bit slow today
09:18 cait Viktor: you could allow staff to override renewal limits
09:18 cait and set it to 0 for the patrons
09:41 Viktor Good idea. I think that is how we have it configured actually :)
09:42 Viktor But am I right that this will block borrower renewals altogheter?
09:43 Viktor I'd like to see a middle ground where you can still do a "request renewal from staff" where the renewal is handled by the staff as we do with tags etc.
10:19 cait renewals for this cmbination of itemtype/patron category/library
10:19 cait we use a separate itemtype for ill material
10:21 Viktor We do too :) Just thought it would be cool if people could still request a renewal in opac in the middle of the night. At least I as a patron would like that instead of having to wait until morning and call the library :)
10:55 cait @later tell Viktor - true :)
10:55 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
10:55 cait @seen ashimema
10:55 huginn cait: ashimema was last seen in #koha 4 days, 3 hours, 24 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <ashimema> laters
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12:44 tcohen morning!
12:44 wahanui morning is, like, a state of the cait
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12:59 tcohen oleonard: how do I add the calendar button to a form field?
13:01 oleonard tcohen: Often all you need is 'class="datepicker"' on the input
13:02 tcohen can the class be appended using jquery?
13:02 tcohen i was using $("#dateenrolled").datepicker({ maxDate: "-1D" });
13:02 tcohen which adds the datepicker, but no icon
13:03 tcohen .addClass :-D
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13:19 oleonard I disagree with the style changes made by Bug 12576 but I don't know if it's because of reasons or because I'm a stick-in-the-mud
13:19 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12576 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, seanh, Signed Off , search links need style id
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14:31 cait oleonard: still around?
14:31 oleonard yes
14:32 cait not sure what a stick-in-the-mud is... but I added you in cc to the bug because I had similar feelings :)
14:37 oleonard A stick-in-the-mud is someone who doesn't like new things because they're different.
14:37 cait ah
14:37 cait is there a story to it or something?
14:37 cait why it's called so?
14:38 oleonard No idea :) I don't even know if it's a widely-used expression in the US or if it's a regional thing
14:38 cait it's a patch from a new contributor
14:38 cait i think it will make all links look the same?
14:38 cait all being buttons?
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14:42 oleonard I think it's good that the links look like links because they look less important
14:42 oleonard But it is also true that the styling of the buttons make them appear less important too, but in a different way.
14:42 wahanui okay, oleonard.
14:43 oleonard okay what wahanui ?
14:43 wahanui i am a bot
14:43 oleonard But it?
14:47 cait but it
14:47 cait wahanui is being weird
14:47 cait i think i haven't looked at the styleing yet - i probably should
14:51 druthb wahanui:  botsnack oatmeal cookie
14:51 wahanui :)
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15:24 paul_p cait ?
15:24 wahanui cait: go to bed
15:24 paul_p not really a time to go to bed yet ;-)
15:25 paul_p cait = is it true that the german national library has closed its z39.50 server ? How do you copy catalogue then ?
15:25 * oleonard waves to paul_p
15:26 paul_p hi oleonard. I hope the mud is not annoying you too much :D
15:27 cait paul_p: i think they offer sru now
15:27 cait paul_p: and there are still union catalogs offering z39.50
15:27 paul_p cait right. but how do you manage copy catlaoguing with Koha then ?
15:27 cait we have our own target
15:27 paul_p own target ???
15:28 cait the swb unoin catalog still offers z39.50
15:28 cait it's only the nationa library that does not
15:28 cait and i am not sure if they totally closed it - but i remember they don't offer for authorities
15:29 cait[…]m:daten:z39.50neu
15:29 cait paul_p: remember, we are a bit similar to abes i think
15:29 paul_p cait (thanks, it's for a -I hope future- customer that has german books & would like retro-cataloguing)
15:30 cait it's free you can use ours
15:30 paul_p "give me a XSL with scanned ISBN, and we populate your database"
15:30 cait bibliographic and authorities
15:30 paul_p s/xsl/xls/ ;-)
15:30 cait hm the result might not be what they expect
15:31 cait given different editions can have different isbn etc
15:31 cait other union catalogs also offer z39.50 - but only marc21 I think not unimarc
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15:37 Mahdi i'm setting up a fresh amazon machine to run a Koha instance. are there any suggestions about which machine is a better option?
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16:30 indradg Hi oleonard... around?
16:30 oleonard yes
16:32 indradg sorry i wasnt clear enough on the m/l. the kohanews block (in the case I was working on) was large enough that it was pushing the new block almost down to the edge of the screen
16:33 indradg the idea behind is (if I have it right) for news and other other updates that admins might want to publish... that why I was trying to bounce the idea
16:33 indradg nothing more
16:34 oleonard I still don't understand the problem. News is displaying but you don't want it to? You want news to display but too much displays?
16:37 oleonard Anyone hear any news from Koha North America conference?
16:41 WNickC Just getting underway
16:42 WNickC nengard is going to share the agenda asap
16:43 oleonard Oh yeah, time zones.
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17:41 oleonard So a few days ago I found that I couldn't run xt/author/valid-templates.t without error, but some reported that it worked if the Perl version was 5.18.2
17:41 oleonard Anyone have any idea why a test would work with Perl v5.18.2 but not 5.14.2?
17:45 tcohen oleonard: jenkins nodes aren't having trouble with it
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18:41 pianohacker hello
18:41 wahanui bidet, pianohacker
18:44 cait hm
18:44 cait my flight schedule just completely changed
18:44 cait i am arriving earlier, and leaving later... but still leave and arrive at the same time
18:45 cait and hi pianohacker :)
18:45 cait did i give you karma for helping me yesterday yet? pianohacker++ :D
18:46 indradg joined #koha
18:49 pianohacker hahaha yes you did, but I always love me some internet points
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19:42 pastebot "oleonard" at pasted "Errors following new package install on Ubuntu 14" (5 lines) at
19:43 oleonard Anyone know what I should do about those errors?
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19:46 pianohacker oleonard: Those errors should correspond to some other message during the installatin
19:52 cait oleonard: hm i think therw as something about the apachee itk lately
19:53 cait hm maybe
19:53 cait http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.[…]ts-td4521315.html
19:53 cait hm way too old, forget that
19:55 cait oleonard: maybe this?[…]g.cgi?id=11404#c6
19:55 huginn Bug 11404: major, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Master , add out-of-the-box support for Apache 2.4
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20:44 bag hi there
20:45 rangi hi bag
20:45 rangi hows hte conf going
20:45 bag it’s going well
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20:52 bag rangi: is mibbit banned from irc?
20:52 nengard joined #koha
20:52 ryanleesipes Hello Nicole.
20:52 bag hello nengard
20:52 WNickC_ Hi nengard
20:52 nengard Hi from the Koha Users Group meeting!
20:52 Robin_NEKLS joined #koha
20:52 Robin_NEKLS Hi folks!!
20:53 bag @wunder wenatchee, WA
20:53 huginn bag: The current temperature in 3rd and Elliott, Wenatchee, Washington is 33.8°C (1:52 PM PDT on August 06, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 10%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Pressure: 29.90 in 1012 hPa (Falling).
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20:53 bag heya carmenh - nice lunch?
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20:53 carmenh lunch was great… came back with a food baby though :)
20:53 bag HA
20:53 larryb o/ NAKUG
20:54 bag agenda?
20:54 wahanui it has been said that agenda is a wiki
20:54 bag heya larryb
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20:55 larryb hi bag
20:55 bag hey there jmsasse
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20:55 rangi bag: yeah, dont use mibbit
20:55 jmsasse Hello everybody!
20:56 bag nengard: yup looks like mibbit is blocked
20:56 Robin_NEKLS Hi jmsasse!
20:56 rangi  use that if you have to use a web based one
20:56 carmenh hello jmsasse…. hello rangi
20:56 carmenh :)
20:56 rangi heya carmenh
20:56 wahanui i think carmenh is a new trainer :) ... and hello cait
20:56 ryanleesipes Too bad somebody didn't post some (safe) ascii art while she had the channel pulled up
20:56 bag sweet thanks rangi
20:56 carmenh I am wahanui :)
20:56 ryanleesipes ___
20:56 ryanleesipes (  ">
20:56 ryanleesipes )(
20:56 ryanleesipes // )
20:56 ryanleesipes jgs --//""--
20:56 ryanleesipes -/------
20:57 bag NateC?
20:57 wahanui I LIKE SPACE AND MY WIFE
20:57 bag bag?
20:57 wahanui I LIKE BASEBALL
20:57 nengard nengard?
20:57 wahanui hmmm... nengard is fast
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20:57 NateC :)
20:57 bag hey there NateC
20:57 rangi carmenh?
20:57 wahanui I LOVE DISNEY
20:58 mario joined #koha
20:58 ryanleesipes nengard, example
20:58 jmsasse Hiya rangi
20:58 carmenh you know it rangi!!! :) :)
20:58 bag nengard:
20:58 bag nengard:
21:00 bag zebra?
21:00 wahanui well, zebra is a fielded free text indexing and retrieval engine with a Z39.50 front-end. You can use any compatible, commercial, or freeware Z39.50 client to access data stored in Zebra. or the search engine koha uses
21:00 jmsasse rangi glad to here you are no longer blocking all betas:)
21:00 rangi :)
21:01 bag oh nengard bring up the newsletter too
21:01 bag or maybe you can have chad talk about that
21:01 rangi also
21:01 bag and let’s all thank NCRL for having us :)
21:02 rangi can someone grab library cards for me
21:02 bag oh nice
21:02 rangi[…]inui/14000457698/   <-- to go here
21:02 bag hey rangi - can you email me your mailing address?  I’ll announce it here so peeps can send you library cards
21:02 * cait waves
21:02 jenkins_koha joined #koha
21:02 * bag or maybe I’ll just collect them for you
21:02 carmenh hi cait
21:03 bag heya cait
21:03 rangi if you collect them and bring them to kohacon that would be sweet!
21:04 bag oh man rangi the second picture is your leg
21:04 bag ;)
21:04 rangi heh
21:04 cait ew
21:04 cait hehe
21:05 rangi before[…]inui/10375159583/
21:05 rangi after[…]inui/10374977936/
21:06 jmsasse Hi cait. Wie geht's heute? :)
21:06 LordOfKoha joined #koha
21:07 LordOfKoha ByWater?
21:07 wahanui well, ByWater is a great place to work!
21:08 LordOfKoha naug?
21:08 cait jmsasse: good, how are you?
21:09 mario bag:
21:09 bag mario:
21:10 mario hey all
21:18 sophie_m joined #koha
21:19 ryanleesipes joined #koha
21:20 kmlussier left #koha
21:20 chrisrohde joined #koha
21:22 indradg joined #koha
21:22 jmsasse cait: I'm good, thank you.
21:22 cait @seen ashimema
21:22 huginn cait: ashimema was last seen in #koha 4 days, 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <ashimema> laters
21:23 cait jmsasse: having fun at nakug?
21:24 mario left #koha
21:24 chrisrohde left #koha
21:25 jmsasse cait: yes:)
21:25 cait :)
21:29 hbraum joined #koha
21:43 rangi hehe
21:43 rangi[…]97072124540907520
21:43 carmenh joined #koha
21:43 dani joined #koha
21:44 ryanleesipes joined #koha
21:46 pianohacker I really was not expecting that in an academic style paper
21:47 wizzyrea ...cascading vortex or horror is not a phrase that was previously in my vocabulary but I am glad that it is now.
21:48 rangi im reading this
21:48 rangi[…]Ajk97MTWdU18/edit
21:48 rangi and there is a logical fallacy here
21:48 rangi
21:48 wahanui are the better stats to optimise
21:48 rangi check the numbers
21:49 rangi there are only 54 patches at signed off
21:49 rangi 187!!! waiting for sign off
21:49 rangi the bottle neck is not qa
21:49 rangi its initial sign off
21:49 rangi id edit the doc, but it wont let me
21:49 * cait agrees
21:49 pianohacker where is this from?
21:50 cait it also was down to 30 last week or so
21:50 rangi from NAKUG
21:50 rangi yeah
21:50 cait just went up a bit, will go down again
21:50 rangi qa is not, and hasnt been  for a few years, where the bottle neck is
21:50 cait also - more sign offs, more testing... faster qa
21:50 rangi yep
21:50 cait less things get failed
21:50 rangi yep
21:50 cait and need to be redone
21:51 rangi the fact is
21:51 cait it takes a lot of time to come back to a bug again and again, so more eyes before it hits qa could also help that
21:51 wizzyrea ^ I think this is why people see QA as a bottleneck.
21:51 wizzyrea because you want quality, things get kicked out.
21:51 wizzyrea and that's OK!!
21:51 rangi bernardo has done 115 signoffs
21:51 cait wizzyrea: i can promise it's not fun... because those bugs keep coming back at you! like zombies heh
21:51 rangi marc has done 88
21:51 cait but it's good, of course they should
21:52 wizzyrea but people need to understand that dynamic.
21:52 wizzyrea bad solutions = qa kicks it out.
21:52 wizzyrea until it's a good solution.
21:52 rangi a few people are shouldering most of hte signoffs
21:52 rangi thats where the problem is imho
21:53 cait yeah, overall, we need more hands, but can't lessen quality control
21:53 cait lessen right word there?
21:53 wizzyrea (and testing the same things over and over is tiresome, for sure)
21:53 rangi pianohacker: its[…]Ajk97MTWdU18/edit  (from the NAKUG meeting)
21:53 rangi cait: yep you can use lessen in that way
21:53 cait cool :)
21:53 wizzyrea but that means we need more people willing to sign off, not more people to QA
21:53 rangi you could also use relax
21:54 cait ah thx
21:54 rangi wizzyrea: what you said
21:55 wizzyrea also reducing scope creep would be good.
21:56 rangi how many NA libraries .. 600 or so?
21:56 rangi 1 each a year
21:56 rangi holy crap thats 600
21:56 rangi problem solved
21:56 rangi im a math genius :)
21:56 cait lol
21:56 wizzyrea (we knew that)
21:57 cait rangi: does it mean you are going to do my math homework for me now?
21:57 cait i can do more qa that way :P
21:57 rangi only if its not combinatorics
21:57 cait it's encryption algorithms
21:57 bag yeah no worries rangi - we are pushing sign-offs here
21:58 bag the notes aren’t totally reflecting the actual conversation that is happening
21:58 rangi sweet
21:58 cait not sure it has been mentioned - but the dashboard is missing from the notes
21:58 bag just finished demoing sandboxes and now we’re going around helping set up people with a nice sign-off system
21:59 bag yeah don’t over react about the notes - those are from nicole - but she’s in the middle of talking at the same time - we’ll clean the notes up in a bit :)
21:59 rangi cait: you could always ask sonja (bag's wife) to help with math :)
21:59 bag goal tomorrow is to get everyone into the computer lab here and go at it
21:59 bag cait ANYTIME!!!!
21:59 rangi thats the 2nd time this week ive been accused of over reacting
21:59 cait the problem might be understanding her in english :)
22:00 cait i have trouble with the vocabulary in german already!
22:00 bag HA rangi I wasn’t accusing you - I was accusing everyone - don’t think I picked on just you
22:00 cait rangi: where now?
22:00 wahanui somebody said now was good time with holidays coming up
22:00 cait oh
22:00 cait time for sleep
22:00 bag night night cait
22:00 * cait just turned into a pumkin
22:01 cait it's midnight here :)
22:01 wizzyrea I'm ok with being accused of over-reacting - but it's more that I'm emphatic.
22:01 bag “don’t over react “  I guess /me just uses that as common speak
22:01 bag bag--
22:01 huginn bag: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
22:01 wizzyrea ;)
22:01 * wizzyrea pats bag
22:01 cait bag: could you encourage them to write up how they test/what they test?
22:01 cait i always find that very helpful
22:01 bag will try cait
22:01 LordOfKoha I need a hug.  Was just FORCED to do a presentation on Sandboxes with NO PREP!
22:02 bag LordOfKoha++
22:02 * wizzyrea hugs LordOfKoha
22:02 wizzyrea i hope that's not weird.
22:03 * pianohacker blinks
22:07 LordOfKoha Great, a bot hug
22:07 wizzyrea err
22:08 LordOfKoha Liz, you're not a bot!
22:08 LordOfKoha hahaha
22:08 LordOfKoha sorry
22:08 wizzyrea ^.^
22:08 LordOfKoha I can't keep this place straight!
22:08 kathryn joined #koha
22:08 wizzyrea ok now I have to know who you are >.>
22:09 bag wizzyrea: I’ll give you a hint
22:09 bag CIN
22:09 wizzyrea ummmmm
22:10 wizzyrea nope. Nuthin.
22:10 LordOfKoha :)
22:10 bag last night is the name of a yogurt
22:10 bag that’s the last one
22:10 * cait can't sleep with you all talking in here :P
22:10 bag you are on your own now
22:10 LordOfKoha I'm being ratted out!
22:11 wizzyrea Name of a yogurt? now you're just being obtuse
22:12 bag obtuse!!!
22:12 bag ouch wizzyrea
22:12 * wizzyrea guesses it's not Richard Peachesncream
22:12 bag well your husband has an excellent radio voice wizzyrea
22:12 LordOfKoha I could call bag a bot.
22:12 wizzyrea hehe yes he does.
22:12 bag wizzyrea: that’s the best dig I could come up with
22:12 wizzyrea lol, obtuse is just obtuse >.>
22:13 bag oh even better - wizzyrea your husband looks like a MLB baseball player
22:13 wizzyrea OH NO you've just crossed a line there bag.
22:13 bag !!!!
22:14 wizzyrea hafthor bjornsson is who he looks like.
22:14 LordOfKoha Hi pianohacker!
22:14 cait wizzyrea: i think now he got you distracted
22:14 cait and i was relying on you to figure out the riddle :)
22:15 wizzyrea the only yogurt I can think of is peaches and cream.
22:15 eythian hi
22:15 wahanui hola, eythian
22:15 wizzyrea OH WAIT.
22:15 bag yeah wizzyrea think company name
22:15 bag lightbulb !!!!
22:16 LordOfDuh joined #koha
22:16 wizzyrea[…]1qa6j6co1_500.gif
22:16 LordOfDuh There we go...a better fitting name
22:17 wizzyrea hrmph.
22:17 * cait is still confused
22:17 wizzyrea Dannon
22:17 cait danone?
22:17 LordOfDuh Brannon
22:17 wizzyrea well hi :)
22:17 LordOfDuh :)
22:21 * cait waves
22:21 cait now i want yoghurt
22:21 LordOfDuh I think we should remove scanning from inventory
22:22 wizzyrea cait:
22:23 cait yes yes... i know
22:23 wizzyrea :)
22:24 cait left #koha
22:26 LordOfDuh Now I don't like yogurt.  Thanks bag.
22:29 pianohacker hi LordOfDuh
22:30 LordOfDuh pianohacker, are you writing any amazing code?
22:30 wizzyrea that's the wrong question.
22:30 wizzyrea pianohacker, what amazing code are you writing right now?
22:30 LordOfDuh ah.  Duh.  ;)
22:31 pianohacker I'm writing a macro language!
22:31 dani left #koha
22:32 LordOfDuh Macros for cataloging?
22:32 pianohacker yup, for the new editor
22:32 pianohacker
22:32 WNickC_ someone suggested today it would be nice of the macros were like authorized values and could be liimited as to who sees them
22:32 jmsasse quit
22:33 LordOfDuh I would just like macros for several tasks in Koha staff in general.
22:33 LordOfDuh pianohacker can you do that next?
22:33 LordOfDuh ;)
22:33 pianohacker hi, WNickC_. The macros already are limited; they're stored per-user
22:34 pianohacker LordOfDuh: of course ;) what specific areas, though?
22:34 WNickC_ yay!  you read our minds!
22:34 pianohacker I'd like to have some sort of shared macro functionality, but that's down the line
22:35 bag yo pianohacker
22:35 bag what’s up man
22:35 WNickC_ pianohacker: are they stored in browser?  or actually on the system
22:35 bag we demo’d your rancor today
22:37 pianohacker woot woot
22:37 LordOfDuh Seriously, though, when we pull holds that have been sitting too long, we have to search for the item, pull up the patron, write a note in the patron messages that they didn't pick up the item, then cancel the hold, and then check it in to trigger the next hold.  It would be great if you have a repetitive group of tasks that you do over and over, if you could do it like a macro.  :)
22:38 pianohacker WNickC_: In browser
22:38 pianohacker I have export/import functionality on the list, don't worry :)
22:38 pianohacker LordOfDuh: Ah, yeah. That kind of cross-module scripting would be rather tricky
22:39 LordOfDuh So you'll do it!  Yay!
22:39 eythian when we have a nice ajax type API, then that sort of thing will become a lot more possible
22:39 pianohacker Yup
22:39 * pianohacker hides behind his "talk to my boss" mask
22:41 LordOfDuh Gotta run and talk with people face to face.  Later!
22:46 pianohacker marc question; is it possible to ha
22:47 pianohacker *have indicators that are something besides a number or blank?
22:48 eythian pianohacker: according to the MARC standard, yes.
22:48 eythian (i.e. the MARC file format, I don't know if MARC21 or something ever actually does.)
22:48 pianohacker eythian: yeah, that's the main question
22:49 rangi probably in RDA you can
22:49 rangi a cascading vortex of horror of indicators
22:49 pianohacker I mean, MARC proper doesn't even require numeric field numbers
22:49 pianohacker heheheh
22:57 tgoat joined #koha
23:12 rocio joined #koha
23:14 * dcook ponders
23:15 nengard joined #koha
23:15 bag pianohacker: no hiding behind me :)  I trust your judgement
23:15 bag nengard: where are you?
23:15 nengard at the hotel with dani, rocio, carmen and todd
23:15 nengard we wanted to work quietly
23:15 bag nengard: power cable?
23:16 bag one sec
23:16 nengard front of the room
23:16 bag Kyle just grabbed it YO
23:16 nengard thank you both!!
23:16 nengard If my battery dies before you return here I'll head back out to get it :)
23:16 nengard but I think I'm okay
23:17 nengard carmen has the new mac so her charger won't work on my old one :(
23:17 bag we’ll probably leave here in about 45
23:18 nengard hey #koha if anyoen wants to read the rough notes from the users group meeting today you are welcome  - they are at:
23:23 papa joined #koha
23:24 eythian g'day papa
23:25 * dcook was wondering what all this grabbing and hiding was about :p
23:34 carmenh joined #koha
23:41 WNickC joined #koha
23:49 dcook I love that Microsoft have a Windows app for troubleshooting issues with Windows...
23:51 dcook I need a Microsoft Account just to install some software onto Windows 8.1...
23:51 * dcook thinks this isn't going to happen
23:52 pianohacker what are you talking about in an open source channel >:(
23:52 nengard yeah ... what the heck is going on here??
23:52 pianohacker we're far too polite to kick you out, but we'll give you very meaningful looks
23:52 dcook All the more reason to use open source :p
23:53 dcook I use open source at home... :(
23:56 dcook left #koha
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