Time  Nick          Message
23:53 dcook         I use open source at home... :(
23:52 dcook         All the more reason to use open source :p
23:52 pianohacker   we're far too polite to kick you out, but we'll give you very meaningful looks
23:52 nengard       yeah ... what the heck is going on here??
23:52 pianohacker   what are you talking about in an open source channel >:(
23:51 * dcook       thinks this isn't going to happen
23:51 dcook         Right...so I need a Microsoft Account just to install some software onto Windows 8.1...
23:49 dcook         I love that Microsoft have a Windows app for troubleshooting issues with Windows...
23:25 * dcook       was wondering what all this grabbing and hiding was about :p
23:24 eythian       g'day papa
23:18 nengard       hey #koha if anyoen wants to read the rough notes from the users group meeting today you are welcome  - they are at: http://goo.gl/I62TGm
23:17 bag           we’ll probably leave here in about 45
23:17 nengard       carmen has the new mac so her charger won't work on my old one :(
23:16 nengard       but I think I'm okay
23:16 nengard       If my battery dies before you return here I'll head back out to get it :)
23:16 nengard       thank you both!!
23:16 bag           Kyle just grabbed it YO
23:16 nengard       front of the room
23:16 bag           one sec
23:15 bag           nengard: power cable?
23:15 nengard       we wanted to work quietly
23:15 nengard       at the hotel with dani, rocio, carmen and todd
23:15 bag           nengard: where are you?
23:15 bag           pianohacker: no hiding behind me :)  I trust your judgement
23:14 * dcook       ponders
22:49 pianohacker   heheheh
22:49 pianohacker   I mean, MARC proper doesn't even require numeric field numbers
22:49 rangi         a cascading vortex of horror of indicators
22:49 rangi         probably in RDA you can
22:48 pianohacker   eythian: yeah, that's the main question
22:48 eythian       (i.e. the MARC file format, I don't know if MARC21 or something ever actually does.)
22:48 eythian       pianohacker: according to the MARC standard, yes.
22:47 pianohacker   *have indicators that are something besides a number or blank?
22:46 pianohacker   marc question; is it possible to ha
22:41 LordOfDuh     Gotta run and talk with people face to face.  Later!
22:39 * pianohacker hides behind his "talk to my boss" mask
22:39 pianohacker   Yup
22:39 eythian       when we have a nice ajax type API, then that sort of thing will become a lot more possible
22:39 LordOfDuh     So you'll do it!  Yay!
22:38 pianohacker   LordOfDuh: Ah, yeah. That kind of cross-module scripting would be rather tricky
22:38 pianohacker   I have export/import functionality on the list, don't worry :)
22:38 pianohacker   WNickC_: In browser
22:37 LordOfDuh     Seriously, though, when we pull holds that have been sitting too long, we have to search for the item, pull up the patron, write a note in the patron messages that they didn't pick up the item, then cancel the hold, and then check it in to trigger the next hold.  It would be great if you have a repetitive group of tasks that you do over and over, if you could do it like a macro.  :)
22:37 pianohacker   woot woot
22:35 bag           we demo’d your rancor today
22:35 WNickC_       pianohacker: are they stored in browser?  or actually on the system
22:35 bag           what’s up man
22:35 bag           yo pianohacker
22:34 pianohacker   I'd like to have some sort of shared macro functionality, but that's down the line
22:34 WNickC_       yay!  you read our minds!
22:34 pianohacker   LordOfDuh: of course ;) what specific areas, though?
22:33 pianohacker   hi, WNickC_. The macros already are limited; they're stored per-user
22:33 LordOfDuh     ;)
22:33 LordOfDuh     pianohacker can you do that next?
22:33 LordOfDuh     I would just like macros for several tasks in Koha staff in general.
22:32 jmsasse       quit
22:32 WNickC_       someone suggested today it would be nice of the macros were like authorized values and could be liimited as to who sees them
22:32 pianohacker   http://paste.koha-community.org/122
22:32 pianohacker   yup, for the new editor
22:32 LordOfDuh     Macros for cataloging?
22:31 pianohacker   I'm writing a macro language!
22:30 LordOfDuh     ah.  Duh.  ;)
22:30 wizzyrea      pianohacker, what amazing code are you writing right now?
22:30 wizzyrea      that's the wrong question.
22:30 LordOfDuh     pianohacker, are you writing any amazing code?
22:29 pianohacker   hi LordOfDuh
22:26 LordOfDuh     Now I don't like yogurt.  Thanks bag.
22:23 wizzyrea      :)
22:23 cait          yes yes... i know
22:22 wizzyrea      cait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G17wQR3DL0
22:21 LordOfDuh     I think we should remove scanning from inventory
22:21 cait          now i want yoghurt
22:21 * cait        waves
22:17 LordOfDuh     :)
22:17 wizzyrea      well hi :)
22:17 LordOfDuh     Brannon
22:17 cait          danone?
22:17 wizzyrea      Dannon
22:17 * cait        is still confused
22:17 wizzyrea      hrmph.
22:16 LordOfDuh     There we go...a better fitting name
22:16 wizzyrea      http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgn6chbBdF1qa6j6co1_500.gif
22:15 bag           lightbulb !!!!
22:15 bag           yeah wizzyrea think company name
22:15 wizzyrea      OH WAIT.
22:15 wahanui       hola, eythian
22:15 eythian       hi
22:15 wizzyrea      the only yogurt I can think of is peaches and cream.
22:14 cait          and i was relying on you to figure out the riddle :)
22:14 cait          wizzyrea: i think now he got you distracted
22:14 LordOfKoha    Hi pianohacker!
22:14 wizzyrea      hafthor bjornsson is who he looks like.
22:13 bag           !!!!
22:13 wizzyrea      OH NO you've just crossed a line there bag.
22:13 bag           oh even better - wizzyrea your husband looks like a MLB baseball player
22:12 wizzyrea      lol, obtuse is just obtuse >.>
22:12 bag           wizzyrea: that’s the best dig I could come up with
22:12 wizzyrea      hehe yes he does.
22:12 LordOfKoha    I could call bag a bot.
22:12 bag           well your husband has an excellent radio voice wizzyrea
22:12 * wizzyrea    guesses it's not Richard Peachesncream
22:12 bag           ouch wizzyrea
22:12 bag           obtuse!!!
22:11 wizzyrea      Name of a yogurt? now you're just being obtuse
22:10 LordOfKoha    I'm being ratted out!
22:10 bag           you are on your own now
22:10 * cait        can't sleep with you all talking in here :P
22:10 bag           that’s the last one
22:10 bag           last night is the name of a yogurt
22:10 LordOfKoha    :)
22:10 wizzyrea      nope. Nuthin.
22:09 wizzyrea      ummmmm
22:09 bag           CIN
22:09 bag           wizzyrea: I’ll give you a hint
22:08 wizzyrea      ok now I have to know who you are >.>
22:08 LordOfKoha    I can't keep this place straight!
22:08 wizzyrea      ^.^
22:08 LordOfKoha    sorry
22:08 LordOfKoha    hahaha
22:08 LordOfKoha    Liz, you're not a bot!
22:07 wizzyrea      err
22:07 LordOfKoha    Great, a bot hug
22:03 * pianohacker blinks
22:02 wizzyrea      i hope that's not weird.
22:02 * wizzyrea    hugs LordOfKoha
22:02 bag           LordOfKoha++
22:01 LordOfKoha    I need a hug.  Was just FORCED to do a presentation on Sandboxes with NO PREP!
22:01 bag           will try cait
22:01 cait          i always find that very helpful
22:01 cait          bag: could you encourage them to write up how they test/what they test?
22:01 * wizzyrea    pats bag
22:01 wizzyrea      ;)
22:01 huginn        bag: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
22:01 bag           bag--
22:01 bag           “don’t over react “  I guess /me just uses that as common speak
22:01 wizzyrea      I'm ok with being accused of over-reacting - but it's more that I'm emphatic.
22:01 cait          it's midnight here :)
22:00 * cait        just turned into a pumkin
22:00 bag           night night cait
22:00 cait          time for sleep
22:00 cait          oh
22:00 wahanui       somebody said now was good time with holidays coming up
22:00 cait          rangi: where now?
22:00 bag           HA rangi I wasn’t accusing you - I was accusing everyone - don’t think I picked on just you
22:00 cait          i have trouble with the vocabulary in german already!
21:59 cait          the problem might be understanding her in english :)
21:59 rangi         thats the 2nd time this week ive been accused of over reacting
21:59 bag           cait ANYTIME!!!!
21:59 bag           goal tomorrow is to get everyone into the computer lab here and go at it
21:59 rangi         cait: you could always ask sonja (bag's wife) to help with math :)
21:59 bag           yeah don’t over react about the notes - those are from nicole - but she’s in the middle of talking at the same time - we’ll clean the notes up in a bit :)
21:58 bag           just finished demoing sandboxes and now we’re going around helping set up people with a nice sign-off system
21:58 cait          not sure it has been mentioned - but the dashboard is missing from the notes
21:58 rangi         sweet
21:58 bag           the notes aren’t totally reflecting the actual conversation that is happening
21:57 bag           yeah no worries rangi - we are pushing sign-offs here
21:57 cait          it's encryption algorithms
21:57 rangi         only if its not combinatorics
21:57 cait          i can do more qa that way :P
21:57 cait          rangi: does it mean you are going to do my math homework for me now?
21:56 wizzyrea      (we knew that)
21:56 cait          lol
21:56 rangi         im a math genius :)
21:56 rangi         problem solved
21:56 rangi         holy crap thats 600
21:56 rangi         1 each a year
21:56 rangi         how many NA libraries .. 600 or so?
21:55 wizzyrea      also reducing scope creep would be good.
21:54 rangi         wizzyrea: what you said
21:54 cait          ah thx
21:53 rangi         you could also use relax
21:53 wizzyrea      but that means we need more people willing to sign off, not more people to QA
21:53 cait          cool :)
21:53 rangi         cait: yep you can use lessen in that way
21:53 rangi         pianohacker: its https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CSQMS_XbZVeA2IaniTQf_edqQaB4CJ6Ajk97MTWdU18/edit  (from the NAKUG meeting)
21:53 wizzyrea      (and testing the same things over and over is tiresome, for sure)
21:53 cait          lessen right word there?
21:53 cait          yeah, overall, we need more hands, but can't lessen quality control
21:52 rangi         thats where the problem is imho
21:52 rangi         a few people are shouldering most of hte signoffs
21:52 wizzyrea      until it's a good solution.
21:52 wizzyrea      bad solutions = qa kicks it out.
21:52 wizzyrea      but people need to understand that dynamic.
21:51 cait          but it's good, of course they should
21:51 rangi         marc has done 88
21:51 cait          wizzyrea: i can promise it's not fun... because those bugs keep coming back at you! like zombies heh
21:51 rangi         bernardo has done 115 signoffs
21:51 wizzyrea      and that's OK!!
21:51 wizzyrea      because you want quality, things get kicked out.
21:51 wizzyrea      ^ I think this is why people see QA as a bottleneck.
21:51 cait          it takes a lot of time to come back to a bug again and again, so more eyes before it hits qa could also help that
21:51 rangi         the fact is
21:50 cait          and need to be redone
21:50 rangi         yep
21:50 cait          less things get failed
21:50 rangi         yep
21:50 cait          also - more sign offs, more testing... faster qa
21:50 rangi         qa is not, and hasnt been  for a few years, where the bottle neck is
21:50 cait          just went up a bit, will go down again
21:50 rangi         yeah
21:50 rangi         from NAKUG
21:50 cait          it also was down to 30 last week or so
21:49 pianohacker   where is this from?
21:49 * cait        agrees
21:49 rangi         id edit the doc, but it wont let me
21:49 rangi         its initial sign off
21:49 rangi         the bottle neck is not qa
21:49 rangi         187!!! waiting for sign off
21:49 rangi         there are only 54 patches at signed off
21:48 rangi         check the numbers
21:48 wahanui       http://dashboard.koha-community.org/ are the better stats to optimise
21:48 rangi         http://dashboard.koha-community.org/
21:48 rangi         and there is a logical fallacy here
21:48 rangi         https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CSQMS_XbZVeA2IaniTQf_edqQaB4CJ6Ajk97MTWdU18/edit
21:48 rangi         im reading this
21:47 wizzyrea      ...cascading vortex or horror is not a phrase that was previously in my vocabulary but I am glad that it is now.
21:46 pianohacker   I really was not expecting that in an academic style paper
21:43 rangi         https://twitter.com/karencoyle/status/497072124540907520
21:43 rangi         hehe
21:25 cait          :)
21:25 jmsasse       cait: yes:)
21:23 cait          jmsasse: having fun at nakug?
21:22 huginn        cait: ashimema was last seen in #koha 4 days, 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <ashimema> laters
21:22 cait          @seen ashimema
21:22 jmsasse       cait: I'm good, thank you.
21:10 mario         hey all
21:09 bag           mario:
21:09 mario         bag:
21:08 cait          jmsasse: good, how are you?
21:08 LordOfKoha    naug?
21:07 wahanui       well, ByWater is a great place to work!
21:07 LordOfKoha    ByWater?
21:06 jmsasse       Hi cait. Wie geht's heute? :)
21:05 rangi         after https://secure.flickr.com/photos/ranginui/10374977936/
21:05 rangi         before https://secure.flickr.com/photos/ranginui/10375159583/
21:04 cait          hehe
21:04 cait          ew
21:04 rangi         heh
21:04 bag           ;)
21:04 bag           oh man rangi the second picture is your leg
21:03 rangi         if you collect them and bring them to kohacon that would be sweet!
21:03 bag           heya cait
21:02 carmenh       hi cait
21:02 * bag         or maybe I’ll just collect them for you
21:02 * cait        waves
21:02 bag           hey rangi - can you email me your mailing address?  I’ll announce it here so peeps can send you library cards
21:02 rangi         https://secure.flickr.com/photos/ranginui/14000457698/   <-- to go here
21:02 bag           oh nice
21:02 rangi         can someone grab library cards for me
21:01 bag           and let’s all thank NCRL for having us :)
21:01 rangi         also
21:01 bag           or maybe you can have chad talk about that
21:01 bag           oh nengard bring up the newsletter too
21:00 rangi         :)
21:00 jmsasse       rangi glad to here you are no longer blocking all betas:)
21:00 wahanui       well, zebra is a fielded free text indexing and retrieval engine with a Z39.50 front-end. You can use any compatible, commercial, or freeware Z39.50 client to access data stored in Zebra. or the search engine koha uses
21:00 bag           zebra?
20:58 bag           nengard:
20:58 bag           nengard:
20:58 carmenh       you know it rangi!!! :) :)
20:58 jmsasse       Hiya rangi
20:58 ryanleesipes  nengard, example
20:57 wahanui       I LOVE DISNEY
20:57 rangi         carmenh?
20:57 bag           hey there NateC
20:57 NateC         :)
20:57 wahanui       hmmm... nengard is fast
20:57 nengard       nengard?
20:57 wahanui       I LIKE BASEBALL
20:57 bag           bag?
20:57 wahanui       I LIKE SPACE AND MY WIFE
20:57 bag           NateC?
20:56 ryanleesipes  -/------
20:56 ryanleesipes  jgs --//""--
20:56 ryanleesipes  // )
20:56 ryanleesipes  )(
20:56 ryanleesipes  (  ">
20:56 ryanleesipes  ___
20:56 carmenh       I am wahanui :)
20:56 bag           sweet thanks rangi
20:56 ryanleesipes  Too bad somebody didn't post some (safe) ascii art while she had the channel pulled up
20:56 wahanui       i think carmenh is a new trainer :) ... and hello cait
20:56 rangi         heya carmenh
20:56 carmenh       :)
20:56 carmenh       hello jmsasse…. hello rangi
20:56 rangi         http://webchat.oftc.net/?channels=koha  use that if you have to use a web based one
20:56 Robin_NEKLS   Hi jmsasse!
20:56 bag           nengard: yup looks like mibbit is blocked
20:55 jmsasse       Hello everybody!
20:55 rangi         bag: yeah, dont use mibbit
20:55 bag           hey there jmsasse
20:55 larryb        hi bag
20:54 bag           heya larryb
20:54 wahanui       it has been said that agenda is a wiki
20:54 bag           agenda?
20:53 larryb        o/ NAKUG
20:53 bag           HA
20:53 carmenh       lunch was great… came back with a food baby though :)
20:53 bag           heya carmenh - nice lunch?
20:53 huginn        bag: The current temperature in 3rd and Elliott, Wenatchee, Washington is 33.8°C (1:52 PM PDT on August 06, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 10%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Pressure: 29.90 in 1012 hPa (Falling).
20:53 bag           @wunder wenatchee, WA
20:52 Robin_NEKLS   Hi folks!!
20:52 nengard       Hi from the Koha Users Group meeting!
20:52 WNickC_       Hi nengard
20:52 bag           hello nengard
20:52 ryanleesipes  Hello Nicole.
20:52 bag           rangi: is mibbit banned from irc?
20:45 bag           it’s going well
20:45 rangi         hows hte conf going
20:45 rangi         hi bag
20:44 bag           hi there
19:55 huginn        04Bug 11404: major, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Master , add out-of-the-box support for Apache 2.4
19:55 cait          oleonard: maybe this? http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11404#c6
19:53 cait          hm way too old, forget that
19:53 cait          http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Deb-package-causes-conflicts-td4521315.html
19:53 cait          hm maybe
19:52 cait          oleonard: hm i think therw as something about the apachee itk lately
19:46 pianohacker   oleonard: Those errors should correspond to some other message during the installatin
19:43 oleonard      Anyone know what I should do about those errors?
19:42 pastebot      "oleonard" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Errors following new package install on Ubuntu 14" (5 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/144
18:49 pianohacker   hahaha yes you did, but I always love me some internet points
18:45 cait          did i give you karma for helping me yesterday yet? pianohacker++ :D
18:45 cait          and hi pianohacker :)
18:44 cait          i am arriving earlier, and leaving later... but still leave and arrive at the same time
18:44 cait          my flight schedule just completely changed
18:44 cait          hm
18:41 wahanui       bidet, pianohacker
18:41 pianohacker   hello
17:45 tcohen        oleonard: jenkins nodes aren't having trouble with it
17:41 oleonard      Anyone have any idea why a test would work with Perl v5.18.2 but not 5.14.2?
17:41 oleonard      So a few days ago I found that I couldn't run xt/author/valid-templates.t without error, but some reported that it worked if the Perl version was 5.18.2
16:43 oleonard      Oh yeah, time zones.
16:42 WNickC        nengard is going to share the agenda asap
16:41 WNickC        Just getting underway
16:37 oleonard      Anyone hear any news from Koha North America conference?
16:34 oleonard      I still don't understand the problem. News is displaying but you don't want it to? You want news to display but too much displays?
16:33 indradg       nothing more
16:33 indradg       the idea behind pages.pl is (if I have it right) for news and other other updates that admins might want to publish... that why I was trying to bounce the idea
16:32 indradg       sorry i wasnt clear enough on the m/l. the kohanews block (in the case I was working on) was large enough that it was pushing the new block almost down to the edge of the screen
16:30 oleonard      yes
16:30 indradg       Hi oleonard... around?
15:37 Mahdi         i'm setting up a fresh amazon machine to run a Koha instance. are there any suggestions about which machine is a better option?
15:31 cait          other union catalogs also offer z39.50 - but only marc21 I think not unimarc
15:31 cait          given different editions can have different isbn etc
15:30 cait          hm the result might not be what they expect
15:30 paul_p        s/xsl/xls/ ;-)
15:30 cait          bibliographic and authorities
15:30 paul_p        "give me a XSL with scanned ISBN, and we populate your database"
15:30 cait          it's free you can use ours
15:29 paul_p        cait (thanks, it's for a -I hope future- customer that has german books & would like retro-cataloguing)
15:29 cait          paul_p: remember, we are a bit similar to abes i think
15:29 cait          https://wiki.bsz-bw.de/doku.php?id=v-team:daten:z39.50neu
15:28 cait          and i am not sure if they totally closed it - but i remember they don't offer for authorities
15:28 cait          it's only the nationa library that does not
15:28 cait          the swb unoin catalog still offers z39.50
15:27 paul_p        own target ???
15:27 cait          we have our own target
15:27 paul_p        cait right. but how do you manage copy catlaoguing with Koha then ?
15:27 cait          paul_p: and there are still union catalogs offering z39.50
15:27 cait          paul_p: i think they offer sru now
15:26 paul_p        hi oleonard. I hope the mud is not annoying you too much :D
15:25 * oleonard    waves to paul_p
15:25 paul_p        cait = is it true that the german national library has closed its z39.50 server ? How do you copy catalogue then ?
15:24 paul_p        not really a time to go to bed yet ;-)
15:24 wahanui       cait: go to bed
15:24 paul_p        cait ?
14:51 wahanui       :)
14:51 druthb        wahanui:  botsnack oatmeal cookie
14:47 cait          i think i haven't looked at the styleing yet - i probably should
14:47 cait          wahanui is being weird
14:47 cait          but it
14:43 oleonard      But it?
14:43 wahanui       i am a bot
14:43 oleonard      okay what wahanui ?
14:42 wahanui       okay, oleonard.
14:42 oleonard      But it is also true that the styling of the buttons make them appear less important too, but in a different way.
14:42 oleonard      I think it's good that the links look like links because they look less important
14:38 cait          all being buttons?
14:38 cait          i think it will make all links look the same?
14:38 cait          it's a patch from a new contributor
14:38 oleonard      No idea :) I don't even know if it's a widely-used expression in the US or if it's a regional thing
14:37 cait          why it's called so?
14:37 cait          is there a story to it or something?
14:37 cait          ah
14:37 oleonard      A stick-in-the-mud is someone who doesn't like new things because they're different.
14:32 cait          not sure what a stick-in-the-mud is... but I added you in cc to the bug because I had similar feelings :)
14:31 oleonard      yes
14:31 cait          oleonard: still around?
13:19 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12576 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, seanh, Signed Off , search links need style id
13:19 oleonard      I disagree with the style changes made by Bug 12576 but I don't know if it's because of reasons or because I'm a stick-in-the-mud
13:03 tcohen        .addClass :-D
13:02 tcohen        which adds the datepicker, but no icon
13:02 tcohen        i was using $("#dateenrolled").datepicker({ maxDate: "-1D" });
13:02 tcohen        can the class be appended using jquery?
13:01 oleonard      tcohen: Often all you need is 'class="datepicker"' on the input
12:59 tcohen        oleonard: how do I add the calendar button to a form field?
12:44 wahanui       morning is, like, a state of the cait
12:44 tcohen        morning!
10:55 huginn        cait: ashimema was last seen in #koha 4 days, 3 hours, 24 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <ashimema> laters
10:55 cait          @seen ashimema
10:55 huginn        cait: The operation succeeded.
10:55 cait          @later tell Viktor - true :)
10:21 Viktor        We do too :) Just thought it would be cool if people could still request a renewal in opac in the middle of the night. At least I as a patron would like that instead of having to wait until morning and call the library :)
10:19 cait          we use a separate itemtype for ill material
10:19 cait          renewals for this cmbination of itemtype/patron category/library
09:43 Viktor        I'd like to see a middle ground where you can still do a "request renewal from staff" where the renewal is handled by the staff as we do with tags etc.
09:42 Viktor        But am I right that this will block borrower renewals altogheter?
09:41 Viktor        Good idea. I think that is how we have it configured actually :)
09:18 cait          and set it to 0 for the patrons
09:18 cait          Viktor: you could allow staff to override renewal limits
09:18 cait          Viktor: ah... sorry, i am a bit slow today
09:10 cait          Viktor: i only said that for the renwals the configuratin is in the circ matrix now - so that shodl be ok
09:02 huginn        Viktor: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
09:02 Viktor        @cait - Sorry. Browser acting up. Working away from regular computer and no IRC-client.
08:45 cait          Viktor: hm you can do renewals in the circulation matrix
08:34 Viktor        DVDs is fine if they renew by themselves but ILLs require the staff to check with issuing library before allowing renewal. A "request renewal" would be better for those.
08:33 Viktor        Another ILL-thought. A "per item type" flag for "allow patron renewals" would be great.
08:33 Viktor        Yes. Manually is no fun..
08:32 cait          apart from putting it on the account manually
08:32 Viktor        No problem. Being confused is part of the fun.
08:32 cait          hm guess right now ill fee is a bit complicated
08:32 cait          sorry for confusing
08:32 Viktor        Ah. Glad I didn't miss an important part though :)
08:31 cait          it's been a while, our ill workflow is not in production yet
08:31 cait          Viktor: ah you are right... we wanted to use it, but it's by patron category
08:31 Viktor        I only see rental fee under item types. Does hold/reserve fee live i syspref?
08:30 Viktor        Hm - wondering if I missed an important part
08:29 cait          bit it depends on the workflow
08:29 cait          the hold/reserve fee is what we use for ILL
08:29 cait          for checkout and for renewal
08:29 cait          i think the rental fee is charged every time
08:28 cait          the change int he database is not too bad
08:28 cait          maybe a step by step thing
08:08 Viktor        Then I think a bugzilla thread might be called for. But as it feels like a patch that needs to store an extra parameter in the database it might be a little over my head.
08:06 Viktor        It's not the end of the world of course. But it would be a welcome improvement
08:02 cait          but we'd have a similar problem i think
08:02 cait          Viktor: hm I can't remember something like that
08:01 Viktor        Asking so I don't post a duplicate thread on Bugzilla.
08:00 Viktor        We have DVDs that should cost the same for each renewals while ILLs is a one off fee where renewals are free.
07:59 Viktor        Is anyone aware of any work on a separate renewal fee for item types?
07:59 Viktor        Hi!
07:52 huginn        cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 17.7°C (9:50 AM CEST on August 06, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Falling).
07:52 cait          @wunder Konstanz
06:14 pianohacker   jaysis I never closed my IRC!
05:42 dcook         Need to get more windows around here...
05:42 dcook         Interesting...if I slump forward I get sunlight reflecting off a window, but if I have proper posture there is no glare
05:29 dcook         Actually, I think I might do that rather than do a local patch while waiting for this one to be signed off...
05:29 dcook         Of course, I suppose I could've just turned off AuthoritiesLogging this time...
05:29 dcook         Yay...now I won't get a million entries in my action_logs...
05:22 dcook         Me too, so I should hurry up on this patch
05:22 eythian       good, because I have to leave in a few minutes :)
05:22 dcook         Suffice it to say, I won't bother re-enabling the syspref cache in this case :)
05:22 dcook         Hmm, I think that leads me to more questions, which I might not burden you with at the moment
05:21 eythian       when it's killed a new one is started.
05:20 eythian       it depends. You might have 10 on startup, and it gets killed after say 50 requests.
05:20 dcook         And how often is a process initiated?
05:19 eythian       the startup overhead only happens once per process
05:19 eythian       that's why it's faster
05:19 eythian       yeah
05:19 dcook         Multiple requests you say?
05:17 eythian       it serves multiple requests with one process, so once C4::Context etc. is loaded in that particular process, it doesn't need to be loaded again.
05:16 dcook         So what sort of persistence does Plack provide then?
05:16 wahanui       i think interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
05:16 dcook         Interesting..
05:15 eythian       it's a totally different process. The only communication they have is via the database or memcache.
05:15 dcook         Admittedly, I've only poked at Plack a little bit so far
05:15 dcook         So long as there are no "our" variables?
05:15 eythian       bulkmarcimport doesn't know nor care that you have plack somewhere else.
05:14 eythian       plack has nothing to do with bulkmarcimport
05:14 dcook         Or is it with Plack it would only load C4::Context when Plack goes up, but the object is still created and destroyed within the process?
05:14 eythian       yeah, though I'm not sure that it creates a new C4::Context (it might, I can't remember.)
05:14 dcook         Stop me if I'm wrong... in both Plack and non-Plack, bulkmarcimport.pl will load C4::Context, then calling C4::Context->disable_syspref_cache(); will create a new C4::Context object and disable the syspref cache, then the object is destroyed at the end of the process?
05:12 eythian       no, you're not setting it in plack if you call it from bulkmarcimport
05:11 dcook         So that means C4::Context gets re-loaded regularly with Plack?
05:11 eythian       it'll just apply to the bulkmarcimport.pl process
05:10 dcook         Admittedly, I don't know how that works with Plack :/
05:10 eythian       it's not setting any global state
05:10 eythian       it's just an in-process cache, I think
05:09 dcook         I suppose for Plack setups...
05:09 dcook         Would I need to re-enable it afterward?
05:09 dcook         Sweet.
05:09 eythian       yeah, I think then you should call that
05:09 dcook         Totes
05:08 eythian       ah, that'd be an issue
05:08 dcook         bulkmarcimport.pl temporarily changes CataloguingLog, but it with caching it doesn't actually change...
05:08 dcook         I suppose for now I should just use "C4::Context->disable_syspref_cache();" ?
05:06 dcook         Hmm
05:05 eythian       after doing it, I wrote a proper caching system, and the syspref fix doesn't use it.
05:05 eythian       I need to re-do it actually
05:05 eythian       yeah
05:05 eythian       there is, sometimes
05:05 dcook         eythian: Didn't you do a fix for that?
05:04 dcook         Hmm, I seem to recall there being an issue with system preference caching...
05:01 * cait        waves
04:46 dcook         hey cait
04:46 eythian       hi cait
04:42 dcook         "Upgrade to 3.17.00.000 done (there is no time to rest on our laurels)"
04:42 dcook         Hehe. Like this line in updatadatabase.pl: "Upgrade to 3.15.00.000 done (the road goes ever on)"
04:35 wahanui       fix is probably https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg_ArW8lrl0
04:35 dcook         fix?
04:35 wahanui       well, fix is going to be something else
04:35 dcook         fix?
04:35 wahanui       okay, dcook.
04:35 dcook         fix is also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg_ArW8lrl0
04:35 dcook         hmm
04:35 wahanui       fix is going to be something else
04:35 dcook         fix?
04:35 wahanui       somebody said fix was going to be something else
04:35 dcook         fix?
04:35 dcook         fix is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg_ArW8lrl0
04:34 dcook         Well, not the actual patching. Just the process...
04:34 dcook         But... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg_ArW8lrl0
04:33 * dcook       ponders patching bulkmarcimport.pl
04:32 mtompset      Have a great day, #koha eythian dcook.
04:28 mtompset      Good video.
04:26 dcook         He seems like he'd be good for a few things
04:26 dcook         Placement I think...
04:26 dcook         No, not counting
04:26 dcook         Apparently Korean is super interesting when it comes to counting
04:26 eythian       he does a lot of videos on various interesting things that are good.
04:24 dcook         This guy is fantastic
04:24 dcook         Bahaha
04:18 eythian       I'm not sure, but that is pretty accurate: http://youtu.be/0j74jcxSunY
04:16 mtompset      How accurate is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Translating_Koha
04:16 mtompset      Greetings, #koha.
04:14 eythian       .zip is a silly format on unix machines.
04:14 eythian       There's a terrible annoyance with the plugin system. When you upload files using them, they go onto the system with 666 perms. a) other-writable is bad, b) some of them may need to be 755 and you have to manually update that.
03:32 dcook         If you have logging for authorities turned on, your action_logs will fill up when using bulkmarcimport.pl for authorities
03:31 dcook         Btw, mtj, you might want to look at your action_logs
03:31 dcook         Me too
03:28 mtj           dcook: thats all , i think... ^^
03:01 dcook         Staged MARC Management, Z39.50 Authority Search, bulkmarcimport.pl...
03:01 dcook         Hmm, trying to think of all the ways to import authorities...
02:49 dcook         The documentation is wrong :/
02:48 dcook         Yep, it does
02:48 mtj           afaik, the -u arg did add new unmatched records too (as i hoped)
02:47 dcook         I think I'm going to use your method. Cheers :)
02:47 dcook         mtj++
02:40 dcook         Hmm, the documentation looks like it might be wrong...
02:39 dcook         Not add missing ones
02:39 dcook         I'm just looking at the documentation now, but it looks like that's supposed to only update existing authorities
02:39 dcook         mtj: Now that I think about it... wouldn't -u not work that well?
02:30 dcook         MARC--
02:30 dcook         Since it's "may", you could never count on 001 as a local number really...
02:30 dcook         Same for authorities..
02:28 dcook         http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd001.html
02:28 dcook         An organization receiving a record may move the incoming control number from field 001 (and the control number identifier from field 003) to field 035 (System Control Number), 010 (Library of Congress Control Number), or 016 (National Bibliographic Agency Control Number), as appropriate, and place its own system control number in field 001 (and its control number identifier in field 003).
02:28 dcook         Now that I think about it, perhaps it is appropriate to leave the 001 untouched
02:27 dcook         I don't know about this stuff either
02:20 dcook         I don't know.
02:19 dcook         Well, stored in the DB but maybe not as the primary key
02:19 dcook         So maybe not store in the DB...
02:19 dcook         I suppose there is some difficulty with that though..
02:19 dcook         (the 001 for both authorities and bibliographic records)
02:19 dcook         Ideally, I think the 001 would be a unique number that we would also store in the DB and use for linking records together
02:16 dcook         Because that will toss the 001 and put authid there instead
02:15 dcook         The only downside would be if someone imported records via the web UI
02:15 dcook         Your workflow works, which is good
02:15 * dcook       shrugs
02:14 mtj           i'll take a closer look next tme i work on it
02:14 dcook         I don't think anyone ever considers it ;)
02:14 mtj           hmm, this is stuff i havent considered yet, to be honest
02:13 dcook         Which could get nasty when importing records...
02:12 dcook         But fixing that will screw up the workflow for others (like yourself)
02:12 dcook         That's probably a bug...
02:11 dcook         bulkmarcimport.pl won't replace the 001 unless you use -keepid=FIELD
02:10 dcook         Ahh, yep, as I expected
02:09 dcook         If I were really fussed over everything, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning :p
02:09 dcook         I can't be too fussed over this
02:09 dcook         But...*shrug*
02:08 mtj           ah ok
02:08 dcook         Probably 016$a according to the spec
02:08 dcook         Ideally, we should be using a Koha-specific number in 001, and put LA's 001 in the 016$a or 035$a...
02:07 dcook         Thanks for that, mtj :)
02:07 wahanui       well, Interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:07 dcook         Interesting
02:07 dcook         Which it probably doesn't
02:07 dcook         Unless bulkmarcimport.pl doesn't nuke the 001 and replace it with the authid from auth_header...
02:07 mtj           record matching seemed to 'just work'
02:07 dcook         Because -u will match on the 001
02:07 dcook         I'm surprised that would update properly
02:07 wahanui       Interesting is, like, sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:07 dcook         Interesting
02:06 mtj           i dont seem to have required any more tricks than that ^^
02:05 mtj           ./bulkmarcimport.pl -u -v -a -file  ./NCG-20140212-18_00_44-All-titles.prd
02:05 mtj           then a --update for the following files...
02:05 dcook         Unless bulkmarcimport.pl doesn't do that..
02:05 dcook         In your case, I imagine you're nuking the 001?
02:04 dcook         To move the 001 into the 035a
02:04 dcook         I used -keepid=035a
02:04 dcook         Well, actually
02:04 dcook         Mmm, same
02:04 mtj           ./bulkmarcimport.pl -v -a -m ISO2709 -file ~/formal_extra_final_10184.aut
02:03 dcook         So how are you importing the records in the beginning?
02:03 wahanui       rumour has it Interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:03 dcook         Interesting
02:03 dcook         Because Koha doesn't index 035 by default
02:03 mtj           ok, its 001 then :)
02:03 dcook         If you didn't changing the indexing, it would be 001
02:03 mtj           actually i cant remember if i matched on 035 or 001, atm
02:02 dcook         Are you moving the 001 from the LA records into the 035?
02:02 dcook         Intriguing
02:02 mtj           importing newer LA auth records into a koha, matching on 035 strings
02:00 dcook         I'd love to hear about it :)
02:00 dcook         Neato!
02:00 mtj           i have been poking at a similar AUTH task to yours
01:59 dcook         heya mtj
01:59 mtj           hey dcook
01:58 dcook         So really your 001 can be anything you want...
01:55 dcook         Interesting... "authid" really is just the auth_header.authid column...hmmm
01:41 dcook         (I imagine)
01:41 dcook         That's not good...
01:41 dcook         Turns out importing an authority using matching rules will overwrite the 001...
01:41 dcook         Well that's special...
01:40 dcook         Hmmm
01:36 dcook         Marc modification templates might work for this...
01:35 wahanui       unless is probably meant to give code that reads more like natural language? but i'm not a fan either
01:35 dcook         Unless...
01:35 dcook         Except...that still won't work
01:35 dcook         Muahahahaha
01:34 dcook         Derp
01:34 dcook         Oh wait...yes it does
01:30 dcook         Ah...except I don't think you can compare different fields...
01:27 * dcook       looks at record matching rules more...
01:26 * dcook       assumes that people don't update their authorities
01:26 dcook         But...I'll have to tweak Zebra to do it...which makes me wonder what folks do now...
01:26 dcook         In theory, that should work perfectly
01:26 dcook         Then upload annual updates using the 001 from those updates against the 035 for the existing records
01:26 dcook         Store the 001 from the original system in the 035
01:25 dcook         I'm planning to upload 600,000+ authorities into Koha
01:25 * dcook       wonders how people manage their authorities in Koha
00:58 wahanui       hmmm... interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
00:58 dcook         Hmm, interesting.
00:53 eythian       it looks like the CFP is still open, too.
00:52 eythian       neither have I yet, but that's not too unexpected
00:51 dcook         Never heard about about that so not sure it's a thing, but thanks!
00:51 eythian       http://opensource.com/business/14/8/interview-michael-tiemann-red-hat <-- dcook, for your OSDC talk
00:42 dcook         Dang, they do seem to have a lot...
00:41 pianohacker   heh, has mozilla hit the millions yet?
00:14 huginn        New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10220 IDs on checkin columns <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=ccd2a36c3c08f4ba25f9b6c29bcd33ab9c060820>
00:04 rangi         night
00:03 tcohen        night
00:03 tcohen        not even the linux kernel bugzilla has that bug number
00:02 dcook         hehe
00:02 * dcook       was just doing the process of elimination
00:01 rangi         11244
00:01 dcook         That can't be a real bug..
00:00 tcohen        heh