IRC log for #koha, 2013-10-06

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:58 wajasu joined #koha
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06:19 rangi hmm
07:31 busla joined #koha
07:31 busla hey everyone.. just found your amazing ILS
07:33 busla I have a question about MARCXML .. are people generally using that format to import data, or just regular MARC21?
07:34 busla I´ve got a huge Excel file with Title, Author, Pub and Year.. that I´m preparing to import to Koha and wondering if I should parse it and convert to MARCXML
07:35 rangi you could you can convert that easily to iso2709
07:35 rangi koha can handle marc21, unimarc or normarc
07:35 busla ahh ok.. so no MARCXML yet
07:35 rangi marcxml isnt a flavour of marc
07:35 rangi its just a storage mechanism
07:36 rangi you can store any flavour of marc in it
07:37 rangi and yep, you can send marcxml to bulkmarcimport
07:38 rangi but like i said, you still have to decide what flavour of marc you are using, that is immaterial to the storage format you choose
07:39 busla well, I haven´t taken a proper look at that yet.. I´m just starting and have this Excel sheet to work with
07:39 busla I guess I´ll use whatever Koha recommends
07:40 rangi it doesnt recommend anything thats entirely up to you
07:41 rangi its probably best to use the flavour of marc that the libraries around you use
07:42 rangi so whether you store it as MARCXML or ISO2709 you still have to decide that
07:43 busla well, it´s a small library that has everything catalogued in Excel and I offered to move it to a standardized format and an online access
07:43 rangi yep
07:43 busla so .. I guess I´ll read the docs about which MARC is appropriate
07:44 rangi yep but not the koha docs
07:45 rangi its not a koha thing :) its a what your country uses, and what you want to use thing
07:45 busla right
07:46 rangi i have no idea what belgium uses
07:46 rangi i know france is UNIMARC
07:46 rangi germany is MAB/MARC21
07:48 busla great, thanks.
07:48 busla what´s your opinion on MARCXML versus ISO2709
07:48 busla ?
07:51 rangi i suspect that if you go with UNIMARC iso2709 is easier
07:52 rangi but im not sure
07:52 rangi both iso2709 and MARCXML are horrid
07:52 rangi but MARCXML doesnt have the length limitation that iso2709 does
07:53 rangi however you are unlikely to run into that problem unless you have a biblio record with masses of items attached
07:56 busla thanks for the info
07:57 magnuse i find it easier to get the encoding right when i use marcxml, but that might just be me
08:00 busla also the interoperability of the format is why I´m considering it
08:00 rangi it only matters until you import it
08:00 rangi koha stores everything as both marcxml and iso2709 anyway
08:01 rangi just pick whatever is easiest to do your conversion with
08:01 busla ahh ok.. so the storage is only before I import, gotcha. Koha does not store it in MARCXML
08:01 busla oops
08:01 busla didn´t read that properly
08:01 busla it stores both
08:02 busla I guess the most comfortable method for me is to convert this CSV file to MARCXML with a python script
08:02 busla I guess there are some libs out there
08:03 busla might even be a conversion lib to iso2709
08:03 rangi pymarc
08:07 busla wow great, and it´s active
08:24 busla ok, Belgium seems to be using UNIMARC .. but I´m not sure. I only found one source that mentions it.
08:25 busla just so I understand this correctly, my process would be: Convert from CSV to MARCXML/ISO2709 -> Import to Koha as UNIMARC ?
08:25 rangi are you in the flemish or french speaking part ?
08:25 busla flamish
08:26 rangi ahh, yeah not sure then
08:26 busla but just arrived here, I´m actually from ICeland
08:26 busla
08:26 rangi if it was french, then UNIMARC would make sense
08:26 rangi katrin would know, but she isnt here
08:26 rangi or irma
08:29 busla ok
08:29 busla INTERMARC is mentioned also..
08:29 busla which is used by the french national library... but they also export to UNIMARC
08:49 cait joined #koha
08:56 cait hi #koha
08:57 rangi cait: do you know what marc standard they use in belgium?
08:58 cait um. no?
08:58 wahanui
08:58 cait is it a trick question?
08:59 rangi nope just busla is about to do a conversion
09:01 cait i think i'd heck the z39.50 sources he can use from national library and such
09:03 busla hey..
09:03 busla still here :-)
09:04 cait hi busla
09:04 cait i have seen this allows to export marcxml
09:04 cait which owuld be marc21
09:04 cait but no idea about other catalogs
09:05 busla I´ll look at this.. although I don´t speak dutch :-/
09:05 cait oh
09:05 cait sorry
09:06 cait me neither
09:06 cait i followed the links here:
09:06 cait just trying to see what export formats would be offered
09:07 busla right..
09:07 busla I´m going to repost a question I asked earlier: just so I understand this correctly, my process would be: Convert from CSV to MARCXML/ISO2709 -> Import to Koha as UNIMARC ?
09:07 busla UNIMARC/MARC21
09:09 cait yes
09:09 cait but you will have to pick UNIMARC or MARC21 - both are quite different
09:09 cait my guess would be marc21
09:09 cait but might be worth if you do some research there
09:09 cait what other libraries you want to use data from offer as a format
09:10 busla I´ll talk to the librarian that speaks dutch :-) I´m only here to setup the ILS
09:10 busla can I get remote metadata about titles?
09:11 busla by querying the ISBN number?
09:11 busla or just the titles even?
09:11 cait yeah, you are looking for z39.50 targets
09:11 busla right
09:12 busla that would be neccessary since the catalogue is an Excel sheet with only Title, Author, Pub and Date
09:13 cait irspy might have some
09:13 cait irspy?
09:13 wahanui rumour has it irspy is a good source for identifying Z39.50 targets. See
09:13 busla I need alot of meta with that to make the ILS useful
09:13 busla ok, will take a look
09:20 busla any Z39.50 linux clients you recommend?
09:21 cait i think yaz is the one
09:22 cait the problem is that you probably will get multiple results
09:22 cait koha has a client too - how bib is the collection?
09:23 busla 8000 titles in total... a small library and then an archive in another location
09:23 busla it´s all kinds of stuff, most of it does not exist in public libraries
09:24 busla pamphlets, radical magazines, even posters
09:24 cait might be hard to find those online then
09:24 cait teh problem is that identifying the right record could be hard
09:24 cait might be necessary to do that later manually
09:25 busla right.. I was hoping to get some meta with the books that were published
09:25 busla but other than that.. it´s all manual indexing
09:25 cait yeah but even with an isbn you might get multiple hits
09:25 cait different editions
09:25 busla ahh ok
09:26 busla I might just use Koha then... when the items have been imported
09:26 cait but might be worth doing some tests
09:26 busla will Koha try to match local items with remote items if I set up a Z39.50 connection?
09:29 cait it's a manual process in Koha
09:29 cait meant for cataloguing new items
09:29 cait so when you go an dhave a new item, you search external sources for metadata, then can enhance and change it locally etc.
09:30 busla ahhh that´s nice
09:30 busla is there a way to have "suggestions" from external sources when you view an item?
09:31 cait so not right what you need now, but should make things easier later
09:31 busla for sure
09:31 cait hm not so much
09:31 cait you can overwrite existing records... open them in cataloguing and search... but that's not what you mean I guess
09:33 busla what I´m thinking is a setting where you configure a remote Z39.50 host to pull in suggestions from that host when you view a local item...
09:34 busla that way staff could continuously be updating local items if the remote host has an item that matches
09:35 busla even if it would bring in duplicates
09:35 busla or several items that have the same title..
09:35 busla maybe the critaria would be that the title and author would match
09:35 busla maybe one day...
09:35 busla :)
09:37 cait :)
10:48 busla no docs with Pymarc :-/
10:48 busla
10:58 cait are you looking for tools to convert csv to marc?
11:00 busla csv -> marcxml
11:00 busla but the format is pretty straightforward.. I think I´ll just write out the marcxml format myself
11:01 busla one of the reasons I want to use marcxml
11:01 busla :)
11:01 busla only three syntaxes
11:01 cait yeah, it's probably easier
11:01 cait and then convert that later
11:01 cait have an eye on the controlfields
11:01 cait those are a bit complicatd but used for search
11:02 cait LDR, 007
11:03 busla the index I´m using is so primitive, it´s only four columns in a CSV file (Title, Author, Pub, Year)
11:03 busla so I´ll only be writing out those fields
11:03 cait ah and 008 - pos. 7-10 - you will want to put the publication year there too in addition to 260$c
11:03 cait yeah, but make the best of it? :)
11:03 cait this 008 position is used for the publication date range search, so nice to have if you know it now :)
11:03 busla yes :-)
11:04 busla ahh ok
11:11 busla not easy to find a marc21 cheatsheet around ..
11:11 busla yes: http://www.statemuseum.arizona[…]_marcformat.shtml
11:15 cait busla:
11:16 cait i think you'll need 245$a, 100$a, 260
11:21 busla nice.. thanks for posting
11:29 busla so the "$a" suffix in 245$a means that it can have several titles?
11:30 busla ahh .. subfield cosed
11:30 busla codes
11:30 busla
11:36 cait busla: if you look at the standard, there is NR (non repeatable) and R (repeatable) behind the fields
11:36 cait $a is just the title
11:37 busla right.. I´m looking at 005 now ..
11:37 busla the description doesn´t really explain what it means...
11:38 busla last edited?
11:39 busla or are all 00x fields rendered by the system from other fields?
11:41 busla I think I need to spend some time reading the MARC docs :-)
11:50 cait don't go insane :)
11:51 cait busla: sorry, not rendered
11:51 cait koha offers plugins to make it easier to catalog them, but they are really codes
11:51 cait marc is a bit insane.
11:51 cait you don't really need all of it, but there are some interesting as koha actually makes use of them, like the normalized publication year in 008
11:52 cait ah and last edited gets autofilled in Koha.... because noone wants to type that of course
11:53 busla I´m excited :-)
11:53 busla I will (hopefully) be running Koha on a Raspberry Pi .. might even try to use something lighter than Apache
11:53 busla we´ll see
11:54 busla but I seem to be taking the role of the actual librarian here.. which I shouldn´t .. but to some extent... I need to
11:54 busla the 008 is insane :-) haha
12:04 busla cait: have you heard about any projects where people have been importing titles from arbitrary indexes and then updating the records in Koha from a remotez
12:04 busla z
12:04 busla ... Z39.50 targets?
12:04 cait busla: you should talk to drojf maybe
12:05 cait but i think koha on raspi is not going to be very fast
12:05 cait but he did it
12:05 cait with some optimizations i think - maybe using nginx and plack
12:05 cait i think lots of people are doing it, lots of it in the mailign archives
12:06 cait some are using marcedit, but i think if you can program you are more flexible
12:06 busla right.. it would be headless so I have 512mb RAM
12:07 busla I´ll look at the archives
12:12 Oak joined #koha
12:57 Dyrcona joined #koha
12:59 * cait waves at Oak and Dyrcona
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15:08 tcohen joined #koha
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16:47 busla joined #koha
19:15 busla hey all.. does anyone know how ISBN fits in the realm of bibliographic formats? I´ve been trying to wrap my head around the MARC format today and now stumbled upon ISBN.
19:16 cait 022
19:16 cait hm or 020
19:16 cait @marc 020
19:16 huginn cait: The ISBN assigned to a monographic publication by designated agencies in each country participating in the program. The field may include terms of availability and canceled or invalid ISBNs. It may be repeated for multiple numbers associated with the item (e.g., ISBNs for the hard bound and paperback manifestations; ISBNs for a set as a whole and for the individual parts in the set). (Repeatable) (1 more message)
19:16 cait right issn is 022 :)
19:17 busla ok.. so it´s a subset of MARC?
19:17 busla my impression was that it´s a different format
19:18 busla ahh .. sorry
19:18 busla ISBD
19:18 busla my mistake.. it was a typo
19:18 busla[…]aphic-description
19:19 busla[…]aphic_Description
19:19 cait hm
19:19 cait the punctuation in marc is isbd
19:19 cait i think it goes back to printing catalog cards
19:19 cait .. somehow
19:20 cait no sane person would include punctuaton in a new format today (at least i hope so) :)
19:24 busla I´m not sure I follow.. is it the same format, but simpler?
19:24 busla fewer codes?
19:24 cait it's not really the same thing
19:24 cait but i am not sure i can explain it :(
19:25 cait i guess isbd is more human readable... while marc21 was thought to be machine readable
19:25 busla ahh ok
19:25 cait and isbd is a bit mixed into marc21
19:25 cait where is jcamins when you need him?
19:40 wizzyrea MARC is a digital format for library metadata, MARCXML is an XML based variant of MARC, ISBD is a standard for actually describing and expressing bibliographic data
19:40 wizzyrea as far as I understand it
19:41 wizzyrea or you could just read this:
19:42 cait wizzyrea for the rescue :)
19:42 busla ok.. so I guess I can store records in MARC21 using Koha and then have the online catalogue display the records as ISBD?
19:42 wizzyrea If you want, but ISBD is really old school.
19:42 busla that WP article has limited info
19:42 wizzyrea have you looked at demo kohas?
19:43 busla yes
19:43 wizzyrea but it has excellent links
19:43 wizzyrea but sure, you can make koha display ISBD if you want to
19:43 wizzyrea it's just not very pretty ;)
19:44 busla thanks :-)
19:52 tcohen joined #koha
19:53 tcohen Hijo #koha
19:53 tcohen *Hi
19:54 tcohen es keyboard
20:00 cait hi tcohen :)
20:00 tcohen Hi cait
20:00 tcohen Waiting for my Sunday tennis partner
20:00 tcohen Just remembered I had irc on the phone
20:00 cait hm why do we have waiting date on the reserve slip when it doesn't print? :(
20:01 cait tcohen:  :)
20:01 tcohen How are you doing?
20:01 cait good, kind of a lazy weekend with lots of sleep :)
20:02 cait and some walking in the forrest
20:03 tcohen :-)
20:04 cait ok :( the docs i have been writing are hidden in a broken odt now...
20:04 * cait is having some bad luck today
20:06 tcohen Its a zip file with a bunch of xml
20:06 tcohen Court ready, gotta leave, good luck cait!
20:06 cait thx tcohen :)
20:06 cait you too!
20:18 wizzyrea cait I don't understand your question
20:18 cait ?
20:18 wizzyrea about the waiting date?
20:19 cait we have it in the default template
20:19 cait but it doesn't print
20:19 cait i am revamping the german templates for slips
20:19 wizzyrea gotta be a bug
20:19 cait probably
20:19 wizzyrea something to do with reservestatus maybe?
20:19 cait ?
20:20 wizzyrea nm forget I said anything ;)
20:24 cait wizzyrea: getting late here - i might not make much sense :)
20:24 cait hm
20:24 cait no transport slip.
20:24 cait oh
20:25 cait hidden window... yeah i am not making sense
20:25 cait hm when you try to repeat printing of a transport script by doing another check in.... you get a normal reserve slip
20:25 cait that intended?
20:26 cait oh forgot I asked.. I think I don't wnat to know that tonight
20:26 wizzyrea yep because the transit is complete
20:29 cait yeah, but... it's not nice
20:29 rangi plugins are in 3.12 eh?
20:29 cait yes
20:29 rangi cool thanks
20:30 * cait thinks it would be cool if we could print barcodes on the slips :)
20:30 cait but yeah, limited use case, thinking of ILL items
20:34 twirlip joined #koha
20:34 cait tansports are weird.
20:34 cait are we sure those work?
20:34 wizzyrea transits?
20:34 wizzyrea what issue are you having?
20:34 cait hm those yes
20:35 cait i deleted the hold
20:35 cait then i made a new one
20:35 cait for pickup at another library than i am logged in at
20:35 cait then i check in the item
20:35 cait and i get 2 messages
20:35 cait well 2
20:36 wizzyrea yep that's "normal"
20:36 cait Please return Handbuch der Religionspädagogik. to CentervillePrint slip or Cancel transfer
20:36 cait and a second blue box with:
20:36 wizzyrea there's a bug for that.
20:36 cait Hold found: Handbuch der Religionspädagogik.                  Hold for:                              Admin, Koha              (1)
20:36 cait Transfer to: Centerville
20:36 wizzyrea yep
20:36 cait and both don't print the transport slip
20:36 cait but a reserveslip
20:37 wizzyrea right, when you transport for a hold, it prints a reserve slip
20:37 wizzyrea that says "transit to xxx"
20:37 cait oh
20:37 cait um no
20:37 cait the transit to appears only on the slip for transports
20:37 cait well transits
20:37 rangi transfers
20:37 wahanui transfers are totally independent of holds
20:37 cait ok, I might just be too confused for this :(
20:37 wizzyrea double messages is nothing new though
20:38 rangi is the word
20:38 cait lol thx rangi
20:38 wizzyrea sorry transfers.
20:38 rangi not transits or transports
20:38 rangi :)
20:38 cait transfer transfer transfer *writes it down a few times*
20:39 wizzyrea anyway, doing hold gymnastics with things already in transits is usually troublesome.
20:39 wizzyrea already being transferred, sorry.
20:40 cait hmm
20:40 cait i will make sure to use anotheritem :)
20:41 wizzyrea[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8451
20:41 huginn Bug 8451: minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , Confusing and problematic double prompt for processing transfers
20:41 wizzyrea and bug 9322
20:41 wahanui bug 9322 is going to be rear its head a lot more when bug 8292 is pushed.
20:41 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9322 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , If multiple transfers exist (from circ/, completing one completes them all
20:41 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8292 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , clicking ignore on hold cancels transfer
20:43 cait hm all 3 look pretty non-alive :(
20:44 wizzyrea yep because nobody wants to spend the time to properly fix it. They just want to fix the symptoms.
20:45 cait I think probably they don't know how to fix it right
20:45 wizzyrea bc nobody wants to pay for that kind of plumbing work.
20:45 cait funding bigger projects... always the issue
20:45 cait not sure how to do it
20:45 wizzyrea funding projects that aren't "add this feature from my old ILS"
20:46 rangi yes
20:46 cait you don't have to tell me :)
20:46 rangi THAT
20:46 wizzyrea bravery and audacity people!
20:46 rangi koha is not a cheap replacement for your old proprietary pile of crap
20:46 rangi stop trying to make it that
20:46 wizzyrea ^ so much this
20:46 rangi it's much better than that, if you let it be
20:47 cait the bad thing is - that our libraries would just want that too - because holds around here are supposed to work differently - at least they seem to agree that they should *sigh*
20:47 cait ohwell
20:48 cait trying to get that tranfer slip now again
20:49 cait grr.
20:50 * cait is going to give up on that for now
20:50 cait now the callnumber and barcode don't print on the hold slip... with the transfer.
20:50 cait but they printd nicely on the hold slip without the transfer
20:53 * cait is just going to pretend she didn't see that
21:13 eythian hi
21:13 wahanui niihau, eythian
21:14 wizzyrea cait: transfers are a sticky business.
21:14 wizzyrea it's not just you
21:15 cait wizzyrea: thx
21:15 wizzyrea those bugs I highlighted earlier, fixing them might well sort transfers.
21:15 wizzyrea or at least get it a long way along the line
21:15 cait hm yeah
21:15 cait but seems they got stuck becuase we couldn't agree on a solution?
21:16 wizzyrea because no one wants to tear out the guts of transfers
21:16 cait i can kinda understand that
21:27 cait oh rangi or wizzyrea - could you put a reminder about the irc meeting into the motd?
21:27 cait[…]g,_9_October_2013
21:28 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software Next general IRC meeting 9th October, 10:00 UTC
21:33 cait left #koha
21:36 wizzyrea since when have you been able to click the labels in the permission list to expand the permissions?
21:36 wizzyrea their style is funny, but the function is kind of neat
21:37 wizzyrea it's the only link in the staff client that is black, turning red (instead of blue, turning green) (that I know of)
21:39 mtj_ joined #koha
21:41 cait joined #koha
21:41 cait @later tell tcohen - 10609 is for you :)
21:41 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
21:58 eythian Who wants their name in signoff lights? That's right, you do! Refer bug 10944 for more information.
21:58 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10944 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Mixed content warnings in results and detail with Amazon images on https
21:58 eythian why's it allocated to oleonard, that's not right.
21:58 wizzyrea because he's the default for opac-y things
21:59 cait wizzyrea: you shoud ltake it :)
21:59 eythian odd, I apparently didn't add my patch to it.
21:59 * eythian fixes that.
22:03 cait oh
22:03 cait ok, time to sleep- night all
22:03 eythian later caiter
22:03 cait lol
22:03 cait left #koha
22:06 rangi bug 10908
22:06 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10908 blocker, P1 - high, ---, robin, Signed Off , Fix broken auth_by_bind LDAP mode
22:08 tcohen joined #koha
23:43 eythian <-- interesting, though I suspect they're all public domain. This said, if they're tidying them up and making good quality versions, go them.

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