Time Nick Message 06:19 rangi hmm 07:31 busla hey everyone.. just found your amazing ILS 07:33 busla I have a question about MARCXML .. are people generally using that format to import data, or just regular MARC21? 07:34 busla I´ve got a huge Excel file with Title, Author, Pub and Year.. that I´m preparing to import to Koha and wondering if I should parse it and convert to MARCXML 07:35 rangi you could you can convert that easily to iso2709 07:35 rangi koha can handle marc21, unimarc or normarc 07:35 busla ahh ok.. so no MARCXML yet 07:35 rangi marcxml isnt a flavour of marc 07:35 rangi its just a storage mechanism 07:36 rangi you can store any flavour of marc in it 07:37 rangi and yep, you can send marcxml to bulkmarcimport 07:38 rangi but like i said, you still have to decide what flavour of marc you are using, that is immaterial to the storage format you choose 07:39 busla well, I haven´t taken a proper look at that yet.. I´m just starting and have this Excel sheet to work with 07:39 busla I guess I´ll use whatever Koha recommends 07:40 rangi it doesnt recommend anything thats entirely up to you 07:41 rangi its probably best to use the flavour of marc that the libraries around you use 07:42 rangi so whether you store it as MARCXML or ISO2709 you still have to decide that 07:43 busla well, it´s a small library that has everything catalogued in Excel and I offered to move it to a standardized format and an online access 07:43 rangi yep 07:43 busla so .. I guess I´ll read the docs about which MARC is appropriate 07:44 rangi yep but not the koha docs 07:45 rangi its not a koha thing :) its a what your country uses, and what you want to use thing 07:45 busla right 07:46 rangi i have no idea what belgium uses 07:46 rangi i know france is UNIMARC 07:46 rangi germany is MAB/MARC21 07:48 busla great, thanks. 07:48 busla what´s your opinion on MARCXML versus ISO2709 07:48 busla ? 07:51 rangi i suspect that if you go with UNIMARC iso2709 is easier 07:52 rangi but im not sure 07:52 rangi both iso2709 and MARCXML are horrid 07:52 rangi but MARCXML doesnt have the length limitation that iso2709 does 07:53 rangi however you are unlikely to run into that problem unless you have a biblio record with masses of items attached 07:56 busla thanks for the info 07:57 magnuse i find it easier to get the encoding right when i use marcxml, but that might just be me 08:00 busla also the interoperability of the format is why I´m considering it 08:00 rangi it only matters until you import it 08:00 rangi koha stores everything as both marcxml and iso2709 anyway 08:01 rangi just pick whatever is easiest to do your conversion with 08:01 busla ahh ok.. so the storage is only before I import, gotcha. Koha does not store it in MARCXML 08:01 busla oops 08:01 busla didn´t read that properly 08:01 busla it stores both 08:02 busla I guess the most comfortable method for me is to convert this CSV file to MARCXML with a python script 08:02 busla I guess there are some libs out there 08:03 busla might even be a conversion lib to iso2709 08:03 rangi pymarc 08:07 busla wow great, and it´s active 08:24 busla ok, Belgium seems to be using UNIMARC .. but I´m not sure. I only found one source that mentions it. 08:25 busla just so I understand this correctly, my process would be: Convert from CSV to MARCXML/ISO2709 -> Import to Koha as UNIMARC ? 08:25 rangi are you in the flemish or french speaking part ? 08:25 busla flamish 08:26 rangi ahh, yeah not sure then 08:26 busla but just arrived here, I´m actually from ICeland 08:26 busla :Ð 08:26 rangi if it was french, then UNIMARC would make sense 08:26 rangi katrin would know, but she isnt here 08:26 rangi or irma 08:29 busla ok 08:29 busla INTERMARC is mentioned also.. 08:29 busla which is used by the french national library... but they also export to UNIMARC 08:56 cait hi #koha 08:57 rangi cait: do you know what marc standard they use in belgium? 08:58 cait um. no? 08:58 wahanui http://i.imgur.com/hVVuP.jpg 08:58 cait is it a trick question? 08:59 rangi nope just busla is about to do a conversion 09:01 cait i think i'd heck the z39.50 sources he can use from national library and such 09:03 busla hey.. 09:03 busla still here :-) 09:04 cait hi busla 09:04 cait i have seen this allows to export marcxml http://www.bib.belgium.be/?uilang=nl 09:04 cait which owuld be marc21 09:04 cait but no idea about other catalogs 09:05 busla I´ll look at this.. although I don´t speak dutch :-/ 09:05 cait oh 09:05 cait sorry 09:06 cait me neither 09:06 cait i followed the links here: http://www.kbr.be/catalogues/catalogues_nl.html 09:06 cait just trying to see what export formats would be offered 09:07 busla right.. 09:07 busla I´m going to repost a question I asked earlier: just so I understand this correctly, my process would be: Convert from CSV to MARCXML/ISO2709 -> Import to Koha as UNIMARC ? 09:07 busla UNIMARC/MARC21 09:09 cait yes 09:09 cait but you will have to pick UNIMARC or MARC21 - both are quite different 09:09 cait my guess would be marc21 09:09 cait but might be worth if you do some research there 09:09 cait what other libraries you want to use data from offer as a format 09:10 busla I´ll talk to the librarian that speaks dutch :-) I´m only here to setup the ILS 09:10 busla can I get remote metadata about titles? 09:11 busla by querying the ISBN number? 09:11 busla or just the titles even? 09:11 cait yeah, you are looking for z39.50 targets 09:11 busla right 09:12 busla that would be neccessary since the catalogue is an Excel sheet with only Title, Author, Pub and Date 09:13 cait irspy might have some 09:13 cait irspy? 09:13 wahanui rumour has it irspy is a good source for identifying Z39.50 targets. See http://irspy.indexdata.com 09:13 busla I need alot of meta with that to make the ILS useful 09:13 busla ok, will take a look 09:20 busla any Z39.50 linux clients you recommend? 09:21 cait i think yaz is the one 09:22 cait the problem is that you probably will get multiple results 09:22 cait koha has a client too - how bib is the collection? 09:23 busla 8000 titles in total... a small library and then an archive in another location 09:23 busla it´s all kinds of stuff, most of it does not exist in public libraries 09:24 busla pamphlets, radical magazines, even posters 09:24 cait might be hard to find those online then 09:24 cait teh problem is that identifying the right record could be hard 09:24 cait might be necessary to do that later manually 09:25 busla right.. I was hoping to get some meta with the books that were published 09:25 busla but other than that.. it´s all manual indexing 09:25 cait yeah but even with an isbn you might get multiple hits 09:25 cait different editions 09:25 busla ahh ok 09:26 busla I might just use Koha then... when the items have been imported 09:26 cait but might be worth doing some tests 09:26 busla will Koha try to match local items with remote items if I set up a Z39.50 connection? 09:29 cait it's a manual process in Koha 09:29 cait meant for cataloguing new items 09:29 cait so when you go an dhave a new item, you search external sources for metadata, then can enhance and change it locally etc. 09:30 busla ahhh that´s nice 09:30 busla is there a way to have "suggestions" from external sources when you view an item? 09:31 cait so not right what you need now, but should make things easier later 09:31 busla for sure 09:31 cait hm not so much 09:31 cait you can overwrite existing records... open them in cataloguing and search... but that's not what you mean I guess 09:33 busla what I´m thinking is a setting where you configure a remote Z39.50 host to pull in suggestions from that host when you view a local item... 09:34 busla that way staff could continuously be updating local items if the remote host has an item that matches 09:35 busla even if it would bring in duplicates 09:35 busla or several items that have the same title.. 09:35 busla maybe the critaria would be that the title and author would match 09:35 busla maybe one day... 09:35 busla :) 09:37 cait :) 10:48 busla no docs with Pymarc :-/ 10:48 busla https://github.com/edsu/pymarc 10:58 cait are you looking for tools to convert csv to marc? 11:00 busla csv -> marcxml 11:00 busla but the format is pretty straightforward.. I think I´ll just write out the marcxml format myself 11:01 busla one of the reasons I want to use marcxml 11:01 busla :) 11:01 busla only three syntaxes 11:01 cait yeah, it's probably easier 11:01 cait and then convert that later 11:01 cait have an eye on the controlfields 11:01 cait those are a bit complicatd but used for search 11:02 cait LDR, 007 11:03 busla the index I´m using is so primitive, it´s only four columns in a CSV file (Title, Author, Pub, Year) 11:03 busla so I´ll only be writing out those fields 11:03 cait ah and 008 - pos. 7-10 - you will want to put the publication year there too in addition to 260$c 11:03 cait yeah, but make the best of it? :) 11:03 cait this 008 position is used for the publication date range search, so nice to have if you know it now :) 11:03 busla yes :-) 11:04 busla ahh ok 11:11 busla not easy to find a marc21 cheatsheet around .. 11:11 busla yes: http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/library/cataloging_manual/ref_marcformat.shtml 11:15 cait busla: http://loc.gov/marc 11:16 cait i think you'll need 245$a, 100$a, 260 11:21 busla nice.. thanks for posting 11:29 busla so the "$a" suffix in 245$a means that it can have several titles? 11:30 busla ahh .. subfield cosed 11:30 busla codes 11:30 busla http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd100.html 11:36 cait busla: if you look at the standard, there is NR (non repeatable) and R (repeatable) behind the fields 11:36 cait $a is just the title 11:37 busla right.. I´m looking at 005 now .. 11:37 busla the description doesn´t really explain what it means... 11:38 busla last edited? 11:39 busla or are all 00x fields rendered by the system from other fields? 11:41 busla I think I need to spend some time reading the MARC docs :-) http://www.loc.gov/marc/umb/ 11:50 cait don't go insane :) 11:51 cait busla: sorry, not rendered 11:51 cait koha offers plugins to make it easier to catalog them, but they are really codes 11:51 cait marc is a bit insane. 11:51 cait you don't really need all of it, but there are some interesting as koha actually makes use of them, like the normalized publication year in 008 11:52 cait ah and last edited gets autofilled in Koha.... because noone wants to type that of course 11:53 busla I´m excited :-) 11:53 busla I will (hopefully) be running Koha on a Raspberry Pi .. might even try to use something lighter than Apache 11:53 busla we´ll see 11:54 busla but I seem to be taking the role of the actual librarian here.. which I shouldn´t .. but to some extent... I need to 11:54 busla the 008 is insane :-) haha 12:04 busla cait: have you heard about any projects where people have been importing titles from arbitrary indexes and then updating the records in Koha from a remotez 12:04 busla z 12:04 busla ... Z39.50 targets? 12:04 cait busla: you should talk to drojf maybe 12:05 cait but i think koha on raspi is not going to be very fast 12:05 cait but he did it 12:05 cait with some optimizations i think - maybe using nginx and plack 12:05 cait i think lots of people are doing it, lots of it in the mailign archives 12:06 cait some are using marcedit, but i think if you can program you are more flexible 12:06 busla right.. it would be headless so I have 512mb RAM 12:07 busla I´ll look at the archives 12:20 Oak [off] http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/05/us-scientists-boycott-nasa-china-ban 12:59 * cait waves at Oak and Dyrcona 19:15 busla hey all.. does anyone know how ISBN fits in the realm of bibliographic formats? I´ve been trying to wrap my head around the MARC format today and now stumbled upon ISBN. 19:16 cait 022 19:16 cait hm or 020 19:16 cait @marc 020 19:16 huginn cait: The ISBN assigned to a monographic publication by designated agencies in each country participating in the program. The field may include terms of availability and canceled or invalid ISBNs. It may be repeated for multiple numbers associated with the item (e.g., ISBNs for the hard bound and paperback manifestations; ISBNs for a set as a whole and for the individual parts in the set). (Repeatable) (1 more message) 19:16 cait right issn is 022 :) 19:17 busla ok.. so it´s a subset of MARC? 19:17 busla my impression was that it´s a different format 19:18 busla ahh .. sorry 19:18 busla ISBD 19:18 busla my mistake.. it was a typo 19:18 busla http://www.ifla.org/publications/international-standard-bibliographic-description 19:19 busla http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Bibliographic_Description 19:19 cait hm 19:19 cait the punctuation in marc is isbd 19:19 cait i think it goes back to printing catalog cards 19:19 cait .. somehow 19:20 cait no sane person would include punctuaton in a new format today (at least i hope so) :) 19:24 busla I´m not sure I follow.. is it the same format, but simpler? 19:24 busla fewer codes? 19:24 cait it's not really the same thing 19:24 cait but i am not sure i can explain it :( 19:25 cait i guess isbd is more human readable... while marc21 was thought to be machine readable 19:25 busla ahh ok 19:25 cait and isbd is a bit mixed into marc21 19:25 cait where is jcamins when you need him? 19:40 wizzyrea MARC is a digital format for library metadata, MARCXML is an XML based variant of MARC, ISBD is a standard for actually describing and expressing bibliographic data 19:40 wizzyrea as far as I understand it 19:41 wizzyrea or you could just read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARC_standards 19:42 cait wizzyrea for the rescue :) 19:42 busla ok.. so I guess I can store records in MARC21 using Koha and then have the online catalogue display the records as ISBD? 19:42 wizzyrea If you want, but ISBD is really old school. 19:42 busla that WP article has limited info 19:42 wizzyrea have you looked at demo kohas? 19:43 busla yes 19:43 wizzyrea but it has excellent links 19:43 wizzyrea but sure, you can make koha display ISBD if you want to 19:43 wizzyrea it's just not very pretty ;) 19:44 busla thanks :-) 19:53 tcohen Hijo #koha 19:53 tcohen *Hi 19:54 tcohen es keyboard 20:00 cait hi tcohen :) 20:00 tcohen Hi cait 20:00 tcohen Waiting for my Sunday tennis partner 20:00 tcohen Just remembered I had irc on the phone 20:00 cait hm why do we have waiting date on the reserve slip when it doesn't print? :( 20:01 cait tcohen: :) 20:01 tcohen How are you doing? 20:01 cait good, kind of a lazy weekend with lots of sleep :) 20:02 cait and some walking in the forrest 20:03 tcohen :-) 20:04 cait ok :( the docs i have been writing are hidden in a broken odt now... 20:04 * cait is having some bad luck today 20:06 tcohen Its a zip file with a bunch of xml 20:06 tcohen Court ready, gotta leave, good luck cait! 20:06 cait thx tcohen :) 20:06 cait you too! 20:18 wizzyrea cait I don't understand your question 20:18 cait ? 20:18 wizzyrea about the waiting date? 20:19 cait we have it in the default template 20:19 cait but it doesn't print 20:19 cait i am revamping the german templates for slips 20:19 wizzyrea gotta be a bug 20:19 cait probably 20:19 wizzyrea something to do with reservestatus maybe? 20:19 cait ? 20:20 wizzyrea nm forget I said anything ;) 20:24 cait wizzyrea: getting late here - i might not make much sense :) 20:24 cait hm 20:24 cait no transport slip. 20:24 cait oh 20:25 cait hidden window... yeah i am not making sense 20:25 cait hm when you try to repeat printing of a transport script by doing another check in.... you get a normal reserve slip 20:25 cait that intended? 20:26 cait oh forgot I asked.. I think I don't wnat to know that tonight 20:26 wizzyrea yep because the transit is complete 20:29 cait yeah, but... it's not nice 20:29 rangi plugins are in 3.12 eh? 20:29 cait yes 20:29 rangi cool thanks 20:30 * cait thinks it would be cool if we could print barcodes on the slips :) 20:30 cait but yeah, limited use case, thinking of ILL items 20:34 cait tansports are weird. 20:34 cait are we sure those work? 20:34 wizzyrea transits? 20:34 wizzyrea what issue are you having? 20:34 cait hm those yes 20:35 cait i deleted the hold 20:35 cait then i made a new one 20:35 cait for pickup at another library than i am logged in at 20:35 cait then i check in the item 20:35 cait and i get 2 messages 20:35 cait well 2 20:36 wizzyrea yep that's "normal" 20:36 cait Please return Handbuch der Religionspädagogik. to CentervillePrint slip or Cancel transfer 20:36 cait and a second blue box with: 20:36 wizzyrea there's a bug for that. 20:36 cait Hold found: Handbuch der Religionspädagogik. Hold for: Admin, Koha (1) 20:36 cait Transfer to: Centerville 20:36 wizzyrea yep 20:36 cait and both don't print the transport slip 20:36 cait but a reserveslip 20:37 wizzyrea right, when you transport for a hold, it prints a reserve slip 20:37 wizzyrea that says "transit to xxx" 20:37 cait oh 20:37 cait um no 20:37 cait the transit to appears only on the slip for transports 20:37 cait well transits 20:37 rangi transfers 20:37 wahanui transfers are totally independent of holds 20:37 cait ok, I might just be too confused for this :( 20:37 wizzyrea double messages is nothing new though 20:38 rangi is the word 20:38 cait lol thx rangi 20:38 wizzyrea sorry transfers. 20:38 rangi not transits or transports 20:38 rangi :) 20:38 cait transfer transfer transfer *writes it down a few times* 20:39 wizzyrea anyway, doing hold gymnastics with things already in transits is usually troublesome. 20:39 wizzyrea already being transferred, sorry. 20:40 cait hmm 20:40 cait i will make sure to use anotheritem :) 20:41 wizzyrea http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8451 20:41 huginn 04Bug 8451: minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , Confusing and problematic double prompt for processing transfers 20:41 wizzyrea and bug 9322 20:41 wahanui bug 9322 is going to be rear its head a lot more when bug 8292 is pushed. 20:41 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9322 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , If multiple transfers exist (from circ/branchtransfers.pl), completing one completes them all 20:41 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8292 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , clicking ignore on hold cancels transfer 20:43 cait hm all 3 look pretty non-alive :( 20:44 wizzyrea yep because nobody wants to spend the time to properly fix it. They just want to fix the symptoms. 20:45 cait I think probably they don't know how to fix it right 20:45 wizzyrea bc nobody wants to pay for that kind of plumbing work. 20:45 cait funding bigger projects... always the issue 20:45 cait not sure how to do it 20:45 wizzyrea funding projects that aren't "add this feature from my old ILS" 20:46 rangi yes 20:46 cait you don't have to tell me :) 20:46 rangi THAT 20:46 wizzyrea bravery and audacity people! 20:46 rangi koha is not a cheap replacement for your old proprietary pile of crap 20:46 rangi stop trying to make it that 20:46 wizzyrea ^ so much this 20:46 rangi it's much better than that, if you let it be 20:47 cait the bad thing is - that our libraries would just want that too - because holds around here are supposed to work differently - at least they seem to agree that they should *sigh* 20:47 cait ohwell 20:48 cait trying to get that tranfer slip now again 20:49 cait grr. 20:50 * cait is going to give up on that for now 20:50 cait now the callnumber and barcode don't print on the hold slip... with the transfer. 20:50 cait but they printd nicely on the hold slip without the transfer 20:53 * cait is just going to pretend she didn't see that 21:13 eythian hi 21:13 wahanui niihau, eythian 21:14 wizzyrea cait: transfers are a sticky business. 21:14 wizzyrea it's not just you 21:15 cait wizzyrea: thx 21:15 wizzyrea those bugs I highlighted earlier, fixing them might well sort transfers. 21:15 wizzyrea or at least get it a long way along the line 21:15 cait hm yeah 21:15 cait but seems they got stuck becuase we couldn't agree on a solution? 21:16 wizzyrea because no one wants to tear out the guts of transfers 21:16 cait i can kinda understand that 21:27 cait oh rangi or wizzyrea - could you put a reminder about the irc meeting into the motd? 21:27 cait http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_9_October_2013 21:36 wizzyrea since when have you been able to click the labels in the permission list to expand the permissions? 21:36 wizzyrea their style is funny, but the function is kind of neat 21:37 wizzyrea it's the only link in the staff client that is black, turning red (instead of blue, turning green) (that I know of) 21:41 cait @later tell tcohen - 10609 is for you :) 21:41 huginn cait: The operation succeeded. 21:58 eythian Who wants their name in signoff lights? That's right, you do! Refer bug 10944 for more information. 21:58 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10944 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Mixed content warnings in results and detail with Amazon images on https 21:58 eythian why's it allocated to oleonard, that's not right. 21:58 wizzyrea because he's the default for opac-y things 21:59 cait wizzyrea: you shoud ltake it :) 21:59 eythian odd, I apparently didn't add my patch to it. 21:59 * eythian fixes that. 22:03 cait oh 22:03 cait ok, time to sleep- night all 22:03 eythian later caiter 22:03 cait lol 22:06 rangi bug 10908 22:06 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10908 blocker, P1 - high, ---, robin, Signed Off , Fix broken auth_by_bind LDAP mode 23:43 eythian http://epubebookeditions.com.au/ <-- interesting, though I suspect they're all public domain. This said, if they're tidying them up and making good quality versions, go them.