IRC log for #koha, 2013-02-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
02:36 jenkins_koha Starting build #265 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
03:06 wizzyrea joined #koha
03:13 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #265: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/265/
03:13 jenkins_koha Jared Camins-Esakov: Bug 9174: Fix itemtype image display in OPAC lists
03:13 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9174 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Item type image does not display for biblio-level itemtypes in list display in OPAC
03:14 jenkins_koha Starting build #56 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
03:30 jcamins_away Yay!
03:54 NateC joined #koha
03:55 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #56: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.10.x/56/
03:55 jenkins_koha * liz: Bug 9382 - updating permission labels
03:55 jenkins_koha * Jared Camins-Esakov: Bug 9382: Increment version number
03:55 jenkins_koha * liz: Bug 9268 - Scanning in barcode or ISBN in Acquisitions -> new order submits the form unexpectedly
03:55 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9382 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Stable , Bold necessary permissions for staff client access.
03:55 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9268 trivial, P5 - low, ---, liz, Pushed to Stable , Scanning in barcode or ISBN in Acquisitions -> new order submits the form unexpectedly
03:55 jcamins_away Yay!
03:55 jenkins_koha Starting build #266 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
04:32 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #266: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/266/
04:32 jenkins_koha liz: Bug 9268 - Scanning in barcode or ISBN in Acquisitions -> new order submits the form unexpectedly
04:32 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9268 trivial, P5 - low, ---, liz, Pushed to Stable , Scanning in barcode or ISBN in Acquisitions -> new order submits the form unexpectedly
04:33 jenkins_koha Starting build #57 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
04:43 wizzyrea yusss
04:47 NateC joined #koha
04:54 wizzyrea[…]annotation_960881
05:01 wizzyrea soren says "cats being jedis - that's adorable"
05:13 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #57: SUCCESS in 40 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.10.x/57/
05:13 jenkins_koha ed.veal: Bug 9308 - logo-koha.png not transparent in ccsr theme
05:13 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9308 minor, P5 - low, ---, ed.veal, Pushed to Stable , logo-koha.png not transparent in ccsr theme.
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07:38 rambutan joined #koha
07:45 cait joined #koha
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08:41 drojf good morning #koha
08:42 wizzyrea morning
08:43 drojf hi wizzyrea
08:43 * cait waves
08:44 drojf hi cait
08:44 wizzyrea hi cait :)
09:16 wizzyrea this seems topical for jcamins:[…]e=player_embedded
09:30 cait search rewrite!
09:30 * cait coulnd't hold it back
10:15 cait oh interesting
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15:08 jcamins_away For the record, I got excited about that announcement when they first made it and told everyone on #koha how exciting it was.
15:09 jcamins_away So you should be retroactively interested in my announcement about it as well.
15:09 jcamins_away :)
15:16 cait I may have missed it - blaming timezones :)
15:16 cait wondering when this will be available to us?
15:16 cait probably needs a new version of zebra.. packages and stuff?
15:20 jcamins_away I don't think they package new versions of Zebra very often, so to use it we'd probably have to install from source.
15:23 cait oh boo
15:56 drojf or build our own packages
15:56 cait hm maybe
15:57 drojf yay, cait is volunteering \o/
15:57 drojf not?
15:58 cait lol
15:58 cait no not :)
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18:21 rangi Morning
18:22 drojf morning rangi
18:22 NateC joined #koha
18:25 cait morning rangi
18:28 rangi 11 days of sun in a row comes to an end. It's cloudy today
18:28 rangi @wunder nzwn
18:28 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0°C (7:00 AM NZDT on February 04, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
18:28 cait sad?
18:28 drojf sun? i have heard about that
18:28 drojf i thought it's an urban legend
18:29 rangi Still warm for 7am though
18:29 NateC joined #koha
18:31 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
18:31 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 3.4°C (7:12 PM CET on February 03, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
18:31 drojf huginn: you are missing the snow rain
18:31 huginn drojf: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
18:38 rangi My stop bbiab
18:39 cait @wunder Konstanz
18:39 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 0.9°C (7:35 PM CET on February 03, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: 1.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Steady).
18:40 cait drojf: stop complaining :)
18:40 drojf cait: i'm at home, all is fine ;)
18:44 * cait has soup
19:09 kathryn joined #koha
19:10 cait good morning kathryn :)
19:10 kathryn hi there cait :)
19:10 cait :)
19:11 kathryn @wunder wellington, nz
19:11 huginn kathryn: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0°C (7:00 AM NZDT on February 04, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
19:11 kathryn <-- I wore a t-shirt on the ferry today!
19:11 cait oh
19:12 kathryn this is warm for 8am...
19:12 cait still so warm?
19:12 kathryn aha
19:12 kathryn come visit :)
19:12 cait wish I could!
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19:51 Guest286 good morning :)
19:52 wizzyrea let's try that again - good morning
19:57 libsysguy kia ora wizzyrea
19:57 cait good morning wizzyrea :)
20:01 wizzyrea ok, since there are people here
20:02 wizzyrea bug 9322 - what do you think of the assertion that there should probably never be more than one transfer on an item at a time?
20:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9322 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , If multiple transfers exist (from circ/, completing one completes them all
20:02 cait hm
20:02 cait transfers get created when a hold is triggered?
20:02 cait or when I set something into transfer manually
20:02 wizzyrea yes, and can be triggered independently as well.
20:02 cait that right?
20:02 rangi both
20:02 rangi yeah
20:03 cait I assume... since we should not be able to trigger more than one hold at a time on the same item
20:03 cait and it should be not allowed to trigger a tranfer without resolving the hold first ...
20:03 wizzyrea transfers are separate
20:03 cait thereshould not be more than one
20:03 wizzyrea but you can have a transfer that is unrelated to any hold.
20:03 wizzyrea as well as a transfer that is related to a hold.
20:04 cait I mean if something is in transfer already
20:04 wizzyrea should the ability to do this be preserved?
20:04 cait it should not be possible to manually do another one
20:04 wizzyrea why?
20:04 wizzyrea (not being a troll, I really want to know)
20:04 cait hm
20:04 cait yeah
20:04 cait because it will mess with th ehold.
20:04 cait ? :)
20:05 cait I would have to draw it I guess
20:05 wizzyrea well currently
20:05 wizzyrea you can have two different types of transfers -
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20:06 wizzyrea manual ones, and ones that are tied to a reserve
20:07 cait I tihnk we have to think abou tthe possible processes
20:07 cait maybe really have a table or drawing
20:07 cait and I might be influenced by reading too much about business processes in the last few days :)
20:07 wizzyrea thinking like that might be useful.
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20:08 wizzyrea My *instinct* is that the behaviour needs to be preserved
20:09 wizzyrea but the deleting holds bug fixed
20:09 wizzyrea s/transfers/holds/
20:10 wizzyrea monday. my brain is not on.
20:10 wizzyrea you know what I mean. I hope.
20:11 cait not monday here yet
20:11 cait but sunday night... is not much diferent :)
20:13 wizzyrea the more I think about it, I think a library always wants to have a record of where things are supposed to be going, that means that if an item is marked in transit for a hold, and it is *ignored* that transfer should be deleted, a transit home set up, and the hold set back to the top of the priority list
20:14 wizzyrea so that the next item to pass a scanner gun triggers the hold and the patron is served expediently
20:14 wizzyrea the way it works now, is that the hold is stuck on that patron, and it will likely never be filled.
20:15 cait i think having mor ethan one transfer might be confusing
20:15 cait to the system
20:15 wizzyrea we know it is confusing.
20:15 wizzyrea but it does smart things with transfers
20:15 cait and not sure what takes precendence when another hold is placed and things like that
20:15 wizzyrea like if you place multiple transfers, it chains them
20:15 wizzyrea it just deletes them all when you receive the first.
20:15 wizzyrea which is the actual problem.
20:17 cait hm
20:17 cait I think my brain is not on
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20:18 wizzyrea chains = place a transfer from cpl ->mpl, place another it goes from mpl -> fpl, place another it goes from fpl -> fvpl, etc.
20:25 rangi hmm community survey
20:27 wizzyrea hm.
20:28 cait hm?
20:28 cait rangi: wizzyrea kicked me
20:28 cait :P
20:28 cait ok, i had requested it... somehow
20:30 wizzyrea you told someone to "push you out of #koha"
20:30 wizzyrea >.>
20:30 wizzyrea <.<
20:31 cait yeah I did :)
20:31 cait wizzyrea++ :)
20:32 wizzyrea oh I thought maybe you were suggesting this was an abuse of power ^.^
20:32 wizzyrea :)
20:33 cait only trying to tease you a little :) it was all ok
20:40 wizzyrea hehe it's cool I probably deserve teasing. ^.^
20:42 cait hmm
21:01 jcamins_away Having more than one transfer active makes no sense.
21:01 cait jcamins_away: that was what I was thinking
21:01 jcamins_away If a book is at CPL, and someone adds a transfer to DPL but doesn't actually start the transfer, when they change their mind and decide the book is needed at EPL, the book should not be sent to DPL first.
21:02 jcamins_away That's just a waste of postage.
21:02 jcamins_away If a book is wanted at DPL *and* at EPL, nothing changes.
21:03 wizzyrea but that's not how transfers are currently designed to work. and you can't see or delete them from the interface
21:03 jcamins_away Right, and that's the problem that Kyle identified.
21:03 jcamins_away (in the comment, not in the bug)
21:03 wizzyrea but what if the person *intended* to chain the transfers.
21:04 jcamins_away Then they want the book at DPL.
21:04 jcamins_away And they should not start the transfer to EPL before it has arrived for whatever reason.
21:04 wizzyrea but what if the librarian wants it to go to dpl, and then EPL
21:04 jcamins_away They wanted the book at DPL.
21:04 jcamins_away Even if only for a few minutes.
21:04 wizzyrea but the person at DPL doesn't know it's supposed to go to EPL
21:04 wizzyrea only the person at APL does.
21:05 jcamins_away The system can't cope with that.
21:05 jcamins_away Period.
21:05 jcamins_away There is no way to make the system cope with that.
21:05 wizzyrea It tries to do that though.
21:05 wizzyrea if you put 2 transfers on at one originating branch
21:05 wizzyrea it will do two chained transfers.
21:05 wizzyrea but completing the first one completes them all.
21:06 jcamins_away Okay, let me put my objection a different way.
21:06 wizzyrea i'm not really arguing with you - I just always remember
21:06 wizzyrea @quote get 123
21:06 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
21:06 eythian hi
21:06 jcamins_away Yeah, and I don't care whether there's more than one transfer.
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21:07 jcamins_away However, as far as I can understand, the situation you're describing is impossible to resolve.
21:07 jcamins_away No matter how many transfers there are.
21:07 wizzyrea not unless you mark one as the current transfer
21:07 wizzyrea and all of the others as subsequent.
21:08 jcamins_away But that's a different situation.
21:08 jcamins_away At least, different from what Kyle asks about.
21:08 jcamins_away I think.
21:08 jcamins_away Isn't he asking about *current* transfers?
21:09 wizzyrea right now, they are essentially the same thing as far as I can tell
21:09 wizzyrea every transfer is the current transfer.
21:09 jcamins_away Oh, hm.
21:09 jcamins_away I thought there was a distinction.
21:09 wizzyrea no, afaict there is no mechanism by which a transfer can be prioritised.
21:09 jcamins_away With a distinction, having two current transfers makes no sense at all.
21:09 jcamins_away Because the book is getting simultaneously sent to two different places.
21:09 jcamins_away Which is insane.
21:10 jcamins_away Not quote 123, just impossible on all but a sub-atomic level.
21:10 rangi how long have you been working with libraries
21:10 wizzyrea that is exactly what happens now with automatic itemreturn generated transfers and reserves transfers
21:10 jcamins_away lol
21:10 rangi as if that would stop them trying
21:10 wizzyrea :)
21:10 jcamins_away rangi: what, chop the book in half?
21:11 jcamins_away It makes just as much sense to me as checking one item out to two patrons, which we don't allow.
21:11 wizzyrea I think what kyle is getting at, unless I'm being daft
21:11 wizzyrea is a simple solution whereby only one transfer can be placed at a time for any item.
21:11 wizzyrea and I think that we cannot go there.
21:11 jcamins_away I thought he was getting at a solution whereby only one transfer could be active at a time for any item.
21:12 wizzyrea because there may be reasons to have both standard transfers
21:12 wizzyrea and reserve ones
21:12 wizzyrea only having one active makes sense.
21:12 wizzyrea only having one period doesn't
21:12 jcamins_away So if someone at library A initiates a transfer to library B for a book then transfers it to library C instead, it shouldn't be marked as going to library B.
21:13 wizzyrea heh
21:13 wizzyrea that scenario happens ALL THE TIME
21:13 jcamins_away And I maintain that shouldn't happen.
21:13 wizzyrea currently
21:13 wizzyrea what happens there
21:13 wizzyrea is you get an entry for wrongtransfer
21:13 wizzyrea and it creates a new transfer back from c to b
21:13 rangi people put things in the wrong box all the time
21:13 wizzyrea ^^
21:14 jcamins_away rangi: sure, but I'm not talking about mailing the book to library C when they meant library B.
21:14 jcamins_away I thought Kyle was talking about the situation where the librarian at library A starts a transfer to library B, then says "no, I meant library C," retransfers, and the book still gets sent via library B.
21:15 jcamins_away I'm not entirely sure because I've been using Plack, which means holds don't function.
21:15 jcamins_away I regularly have my holds show up at Fairfield when I sent them to Centerville for no reason at all.
21:15 jcamins_away (and it's not the mail... I type in the barcodes myself!)
21:17 wizzyrea the solution to kyle's problem is to create an interface for librarians to delete a transfer that they have initiated.
21:17 wizzyrea make an oopsie, delete that one, put in the one they meant to.
21:17 jcamins_away I like that idea.
21:17 wizzyrea and leave the chaining alone.
21:18 jcamins_away I guess I don't see how the chaining he's talking about exists if you delete the erroneous transfer.
21:18 jcamins_away Unless the "chaining" is "having transfers that should be triggered later."
21:19 jcamins_away In which case I'm just confused about how that could be not useful.
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21:20 rangi 99% of things that are 'not useful' end up being "i dont have a library who does it like that" i always keep that in mind
21:21 rangi if we dont, we end up with acquisitions
21:21 jcamins_away But _every_ library system with more than one branch has to send books to multiple places.
21:21 rangi oh lemme just kill the aqordersbreakdown code
21:21 * cait hands rangi a big cookie
21:21 jcamins_away It's not a minor workflow issue.
21:22 rangi neither are 99% of the things that get broken
21:22 wizzyrea yea, it was one of the things that I had to fight with the people at NEKLS a lot about "doing that will break it for other libraries, our way is not the only way"
21:22 jcamins_away True.
21:22 rangi i do think the delete is the best way round this
21:22 wizzyrea and fixing the delete one deletes them all
21:22 jcamins_away I'm now confused about why we don't have non-current transfers.
21:23 rangi yeah
21:24 jcamins_away Shouldn't we?
21:24 wizzyrea it's needed fixing for a while ;)
21:25 wizzyrea this behaviour has been this way at least since I've been using koha. I wasn't able to explain it until recently
21:25 wizzyrea I think a couple of things need to happen
21:26 wizzyrea we need to be able to delete transfers that are independent of reserves
21:26 wizzyrea the prompts need to be made clearer as to what actually is happening
21:27 wizzyrea (A librarian wants to transfer this to A, but it is on reserve for patron at B, what do you want me to do?)
21:27 barriers joined #koha
21:28 wizzyrea the problem of completing one transfer completing them all needs to be fixed
21:31 rangi yep
21:33 nengard joined #koha
21:34 jcamins_away Heh. Bug 9536 is not going in on my watch.
21:34 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9536 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Make it still easier to add to the the list of possible encodings for Z39.50 servers.
21:34 jcamins_away I foresee nearly limitless problems with a dropdown fifty pages long.
21:35 cait ?
21:35 wizzyrea well he says "pick and choose which ones to add"
21:35 wizzyrea in his message
21:36 jcamins_away He says "please prepopulate with every valid encoding."
21:36 wizzyrea oo I read that wrong.
21:36 * wizzyrea would be ok with people having to specify the ones they want on top of the default.
21:36 * jcamins_away proceeds to ignore it other than the amused comment.
21:36 jcamins_away Sure.
21:36 jcamins_away I'd be fine with the table.
21:36 jcamins_away But prepopulating with every single possible encoding?
21:36 jcamins_away Nope.
21:37 wizzyrea seems nuts.
21:37 cait jcamins_away: maybe leave a comment? might be a misunderstanding
21:38 cait ah right, misread
21:38 cait thought we were talking about magnus' patch
21:39 jcamins_away Nope.
21:39 cait justforget what I said
21:39 jcamins_away :)
21:44 eythian why would we include Perl in our downloads?
21:44 eythian that's a very odd idea
21:45 jcamins_away eythian: because "back on System V you didn't have to worry about whether you had the dependencies," or something like that.
21:45 eythian ah, right. Glad we've moved on, then.
21:48 * jcamins_away guffaws
21:48 wizzyrea oh and now he wants a git log in about.
21:48 jcamins_away Sorry, I found it funny.
21:48 eythian wizzyrea: I assume you and trea are heading to a pub this afternoon for the Superb Owl? :)
21:48 wizzyrea while I am wholly in favor of owls
21:48 * jcamins_away should stop reading his e-mail and laughing uproariously.
21:48 cait heh
21:48 wizzyrea except for the food, I don't have much care for Superb ones
21:49 jcamins_away Instead I should read Jasper Fforde and laugh uproariously.
21:49 wizzyrea (we have a team?)
21:49 wizzyrea now, come march
21:49 wizzyrea if KU has a team in the tournament, and they get very far at all
21:49 wizzyrea THEN you might find me in a pub.
21:49 cjh hmm I dont seem to get the funny emails, was this on the koha ml?
21:49 wizzyrea bugs list
21:49 jcamins_away cjh: bugs list.
21:50 jcamins_away And they're funny only if you have a deranged sense of humor.
21:50 * wizzyrea is going to respond tthat this development would be welcomed :P
21:50 wizzyrea but it's unlikely to be fixed.
21:50 jcamins_away Go for it.
21:50 jenkins_koha Starting build #58 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:51 eythian[…]ha-mailing-lists/ <-- btw this says: "If you are a developer then you will probably want to join the patches,commits and bugs mailing lists as well." but lacks a link to it.
21:51 jcamins_away As long as you note that the git log with only one-line per patch is almost 18k lines long.
21:51 jcamins_away *one line
21:51 cjh eythian: I was just reading that page, and thought I was going crazy as I couldnt find the bugs list :)
21:51 * wizzyrea resists the urg to mark it wontfix.
21:52 eythian don't forget to include the patch where you include the patch where you include the patch where you include the log.
21:54 cait wizzyrea: you could mark it wishlist :)
21:55 wizzyrea I marked it as "assigned" and assigned it to him.
21:55 wizzyrea HINT HINT NUDGE NUDGE
21:56 cjh heh, your reply is amusing to read :)
21:56 * wizzyrea learned from the best
21:57 cait hehe
21:57 cait rangi: um
21:57 wizzyrea is there a "wishlist?"
21:57 cait the dashboard
21:57 cait that passed qa report doesn't look right
21:57 cait ordoes it... maybe
21:57 * cait is tired
21:58 rangi it does to me
21:58 cait I was wondering about you and liz showing up there
21:58 cait but i tmigt just have happened cleaning up a bug status
21:58 wizzyrea yes I think it probably did
21:58 rangi yep
21:59 cait all goo
21:59 cait d
21:59 cait good night all :)
21:59 cjh night :)
21:59 rangi night cait
21:59 cait left #koha
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22:05 BobB Morning all
22:07 wizzyrea mornin
22:31 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #58: SUCCESS in 40 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.10.x/58/
22:31 jenkins_koha adrien.saurat: Bug 9343: handles the new format of Debarred [3.10.x]
22:31 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9343 minor, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Stable , SIP doesn't handle debarred date/status correctly
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