Time  Nick           Message
22:36 tweetbot`      [off] twitter: @IrmaLibraries: "Due to merger with other college, sad to see client go but just received + affirmation "I will remain a fan of both Koha and Calyx" #kohails"
22:31 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9343 minor, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Stable , SIP doesn't handle debarred date/status correctly
22:31 jenkins_koha   adrien.saurat: Bug 9343: handles the new format of Debarred [3.10.x]
22:31 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.10.x build #58: SUCCESS in 40 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/58/
22:07 wizzyrea       mornin
22:05 BobB           Morning all
21:59 rangi          night cait
21:59 cjh            night :)
21:59 cait           good night all :)
21:59 cait           d
21:59 cait           all goo
21:58 rangi          yep
21:58 wizzyrea       yes I think it probably did
21:58 cait           but i tmigt just have happened cleaning up a bug status
21:58 cait           I was wondering about you and liz showing up there
21:58 rangi          it does to me
21:57 * cait         is tired
21:57 cait           ordoes it... maybe
21:57 cait           that passed qa report doesn't look right
21:57 cait           the dashboard
21:57 wizzyrea       is there a "wishlist?"
21:57 cait           rangi: um
21:57 cait           hehe
21:56 * wizzyrea     learned from the best
21:56 cjh            heh, your reply is amusing to read :)
21:55 wizzyrea       HINT HINT NUDGE NUDGE
21:55 wizzyrea       I marked it as "assigned" and assigned it to him.
21:54 cait           wizzyrea: you could mark it wishlist :)
21:52 eythian        don't forget to include the patch where you include the patch where you include the patch where you include the log.
21:51 * wizzyrea     resists the urg to mark it wontfix.
21:51 cjh            eythian: I was just reading that page, and thought I was going crazy as I couldnt find the bugs list :)
21:51 jcamins_away   *one line
21:51 jcamins_away   As long as you note that the git log with only one-line per patch is almost 18k lines long.
21:51 eythian        http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/ <-- btw this says: "If you are a developer then you will probably want to join the patches,commits and bugs mailing lists as well." but lacks a link to it.
21:50 jenkins_koha   Starting build #58 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:50 jcamins_away   Go for it.
21:50 wizzyrea       but it's unlikely to be fixed.
21:50 * wizzyrea     is going to respond tthat this development would be welcomed :P
21:50 jcamins_away   And they're funny only if you have a deranged sense of humor.
21:49 jcamins_away   cjh: bugs list.
21:49 wizzyrea       bugs list
21:49 cjh            hmm I dont seem to get the funny emails, was this on the koha ml?
21:49 wizzyrea       THEN you might find me in a pub.
21:49 wizzyrea       if KU has a team in the tournament, and they get very far at all
21:49 wizzyrea       now, come march
21:49 wizzyrea       (we have a team?)
21:49 jcamins_away   Instead I should read Jasper Fforde and laugh uproariously.
21:48 wizzyrea       except for the food, I don't have much care for Superb ones
21:48 cait           heh
21:48 * jcamins_away should stop reading his e-mail and laughing uproariously.
21:48 wizzyrea       while I am wholly in favor of owls
21:48 eythian        wizzyrea: I assume you and trea are heading to a pub this afternoon for the Superb Owl? :)
21:48 jcamins_away   Sorry, I found it funny.
21:48 wizzyrea       oh and now he wants a git log in about.
21:48 * jcamins_away guffaws
21:45 eythian        ah, right. Glad we've moved on, then.
21:45 jcamins_away   eythian: because "back on System V you didn't have to worry about whether you had the dependencies," or something like that.
21:44 eythian        that's a very odd idea
21:44 eythian        why would we include Perl in our downloads?
21:39 jcamins_away   :)
21:39 cait           justforget what I said
21:39 jcamins_away   Nope.
21:38 cait           thought we were talking about magnus' patch
21:38 cait           ah right, misread
21:38 jcamins_away   [off] If this is the troll who objected to the fact that we don't include Perl in our downloads.
21:37 jcamins_away   [off] As far as I can tell, he has no intention of ever contributing, so I see no point in spending the time.
21:37 cait           jcamins_away: maybe leave a comment? might be a misunderstanding
21:37 wizzyrea       seems nuts.
21:36 jcamins_away   Nope.
21:36 jcamins_away   But prepopulating with every single possible encoding?
21:36 jcamins_away   I'd be fine with the table.
21:36 jcamins_away   Sure.
21:36 * jcamins_away proceeds to ignore it other than the amused comment.
21:36 * wizzyrea     would be ok with people having to specify the ones they want on top of the default.
21:36 wizzyrea       oo I read that wrong.
21:36 jcamins_away   He says "please prepopulate with every valid encoding."
21:35 wizzyrea       in his message
21:35 wizzyrea       well he says "pick and choose which ones to add"
21:35 cait           ?
21:34 jcamins_away   I foresee nearly limitless problems with a dropdown fifty pages long.
21:34 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9536 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Make it still easier to add to the the list of possible encodings for Z39.50 servers.
21:34 jcamins_away   Heh. Bug 9536 is not going in on my watch.
21:31 rangi          yep
21:28 wizzyrea       the problem of completing one transfer completing them all needs to be fixed
21:27 wizzyrea       (A librarian wants to transfer this to A, but it is on reserve for patron at B, what do you want me to do?)
21:26 wizzyrea       the prompts need to be made clearer as to what actually is happening
21:26 wizzyrea       we need to be able to delete transfers that are independent of reserves
21:25 wizzyrea       I think a couple of things need to happen
21:25 wizzyrea       this behaviour has been this way at least since I've been using koha. I wasn't able to explain it until recently
21:24 wizzyrea       it's needed fixing for a while ;)
21:24 jcamins_away   Shouldn't we?
21:23 rangi          yeah
21:22 jcamins_away   I'm now confused about why we don't have non-current transfers.
21:22 wizzyrea       and fixing the delete one deletes them all
21:22 rangi          i do think the delete is the best way round this
21:22 jcamins_away   True.
21:22 wizzyrea       yea, it was one of the things that I had to fight with the people at NEKLS a lot about "doing that will break it for other libraries, our way is not the only way"
21:22 rangi          neither are 99% of the things that get broken
21:21 jcamins_away   It's not a minor workflow issue.
21:21 * cait         hands rangi a big cookie
21:21 rangi          oh lemme just kill the aqordersbreakdown code
21:21 jcamins_away   But _every_ library system with more than one branch has to send books to multiple places.
21:21 rangi          if we dont, we end up with acquisitions
21:20 rangi          99% of things that are 'not useful' end up being "i dont have a library who does it like that" i always keep that in mind
21:19 jcamins_away   In which case I'm just confused about how that could be not useful.
21:18 jcamins_away   Unless the "chaining" is "having transfers that should be triggered later."
21:18 jcamins_away   I guess I don't see how the chaining he's talking about exists if you delete the erroneous transfer.
21:17 wizzyrea       and leave the chaining alone.
21:17 jcamins_away   I like that idea.
21:17 wizzyrea       make an oopsie, delete that one, put in the one they meant to.
21:17 wizzyrea       the solution to kyle's problem is to create an interface for librarians to delete a transfer that they have initiated.
21:15 jcamins_away   (and it's not the mail... I type in the barcodes myself!)
21:15 jcamins_away   I regularly have my holds show up at Fairfield when I sent them to Centerville for no reason at all.
21:15 jcamins_away   I'm not entirely sure because I've been using Plack, which means holds don't function.
21:14 jcamins_away   I thought Kyle was talking about the situation where the librarian at library A starts a transfer to library B, then says "no, I meant library C," retransfers, and the book still gets sent via library B.
21:14 jcamins_away   rangi: sure, but I'm not talking about mailing the book to library C when they meant library B.
21:13 wizzyrea       ^^
21:13 rangi          people put things in the wrong box all the time
21:13 wizzyrea       and it creates a new transfer back from c to b
21:13 wizzyrea       is you get an entry for wrongtransfer
21:13 wizzyrea       what happens there
21:13 wizzyrea       currently
21:13 jcamins_away   And I maintain that shouldn't happen.
21:13 wizzyrea       that scenario happens ALL THE TIME
21:13 wizzyrea       heh
21:12 jcamins_away   So if someone at library A initiates a transfer to library B for a book then transfers it to library C instead, it shouldn't be marked as going to library B.
21:12 wizzyrea       only having one period doesn't
21:12 wizzyrea       only having one active makes sense.
21:12 wizzyrea       and reserve ones
21:12 wizzyrea       because there may be reasons to have both standard transfers
21:11 jcamins_away   I thought he was getting at a solution whereby only one transfer could be active at a time for any item.
21:11 wizzyrea       and I think that we cannot go there.
21:11 wizzyrea       is a simple solution whereby only one transfer can be placed at a time for any item.
21:11 wizzyrea       I think what kyle is getting at, unless I'm being daft
21:11 jcamins_away   It makes just as much sense to me as checking one item out to two patrons, which we don't allow.
21:10 jcamins_away   rangi: what, chop the book in half?
21:10 wizzyrea       :)
21:10 rangi          as if that would stop them trying
21:10 jcamins_away   lol
21:10 wizzyrea       that is exactly what happens now with automatic itemreturn generated transfers and reserves transfers
21:10 rangi          how long have you been working with libraries
21:10 jcamins_away   Not quote 123, just impossible on all but a sub-atomic level.
21:09 jcamins_away   Which is insane.
21:09 jcamins_away   Because the book is getting simultaneously sent to two different places.
21:09 jcamins_away   With a distinction, having two current transfers makes no sense at all.
21:09 wizzyrea       no, afaict there is no mechanism by which a transfer can be prioritised.
21:09 jcamins_away   I thought there was a distinction.
21:09 jcamins_away   Oh, hm.
21:09 wizzyrea       every transfer is the current transfer.
21:09 wizzyrea       right now, they are essentially the same thing as far as I can tell
21:08 jcamins_away   Isn't he asking about *current* transfers?
21:08 jcamins_away   I think.
21:08 jcamins_away   At least, different from what Kyle asks about.
21:08 jcamins_away   But that's a different situation.
21:07 wizzyrea       and all of the others as subsequent.
21:07 wizzyrea       not unless you mark one as the current transfer
21:07 jcamins_away   No matter how many transfers there are.
21:07 jcamins_away   However, as far as I can understand, the situation you're describing is impossible to resolve.
21:06 jcamins_away   Yeah, and I don't care whether there's more than one transfer.
21:06 eythian        hi
21:06 huginn         wizzyrea: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
21:06 wizzyrea       @quote get 123
21:06 wizzyrea       i'm not really arguing with you - I just always remember
21:06 jcamins_away   Okay, let me put my objection a different way.
21:05 wizzyrea       but completing the first one completes them all.
21:05 wizzyrea       it will do two chained transfers.
21:05 wizzyrea       if you put 2 transfers on at one originating branch
21:05 wizzyrea       It tries to do that though.
21:05 jcamins_away   There is no way to make the system cope with that.
21:05 jcamins_away   Period.
21:05 jcamins_away   The system can't cope with that.
21:04 wizzyrea       only the person at APL does.
21:04 wizzyrea       but the person at DPL doesn't know it's supposed to go to EPL
21:04 jcamins_away   Even if only for a few minutes.
21:04 jcamins_away   They wanted the book at DPL.
21:04 wizzyrea       but what if the librarian wants it to go to dpl, and then EPL
21:04 jcamins_away   And they should not start the transfer to EPL before it has arrived for whatever reason.
21:04 jcamins_away   Then they want the book at DPL.
21:03 wizzyrea       but what if the person *intended* to chain the transfers.
21:03 jcamins_away   (in the comment, not in the bug)
21:03 jcamins_away   Right, and that's the problem that Kyle identified.
21:03 wizzyrea       but that's not how transfers are currently designed to work. and you can't see or delete them from the interface
21:02 jcamins_away   If a book is wanted at DPL *and* at EPL, nothing changes.
21:02 jcamins_away   That's just a waste of postage.
21:01 jcamins_away   If a book is at CPL, and someone adds a transfer to DPL but doesn't actually start the transfer, when they change their mind and decide the book is needed at EPL, the book should not be sent to DPL first.
21:01 cait           jcamins_away: that was what I was thinking
21:01 jcamins_away   Having more than one transfer active makes no sense.
20:42 cait           hmm
20:40 wizzyrea       hehe it's cool I probably deserve teasing. ^.^
20:33 cait           only trying to tease you a little :) it was all ok
20:32 wizzyrea       :)
20:32 wizzyrea       oh I thought maybe you were suggesting this was an abuse of power ^.^
20:31 cait           wizzyrea++ :)
20:31 cait           yeah I did :)
20:30 wizzyrea       <.<
20:30 wizzyrea       >.>
20:30 wizzyrea       you told someone to "push you out of #koha"
20:28 cait           ok, i had requested it... somehow
20:28 cait           :P
20:28 cait           rangi: wizzyrea kicked me
20:28 cait           hm?
20:27 wizzyrea       hm.
20:25 rangi          hmm community survey
20:18 wizzyrea       chains = place a transfer from cpl ->mpl, place another it goes from mpl -> fpl, place another it goes from fpl -> fvpl, etc.
20:17 cait           I think my brain is not on
20:17 cait           hm
20:15 wizzyrea       which is the actual problem.
20:15 wizzyrea       it just deletes them all when you receive the first.
20:15 wizzyrea       like if you place multiple transfers, it chains them
20:15 cait           and not sure what takes precendence when another hold is placed and things like that
20:15 wizzyrea       but it does smart things with transfers
20:15 wizzyrea       we know it is confusing.
20:15 cait           to the system
20:15 cait           i think having mor ethan one transfer might be confusing
20:14 wizzyrea       the way it works now, is that the hold is stuck on that patron, and it will likely never be filled.
20:14 wizzyrea       so that the next item to pass a scanner gun triggers the hold and the patron is served expediently
20:13 wizzyrea       the more I think about it, I think a library always wants to have a record of where things are supposed to be going, that means that if an item is marked in transit for a hold, and it is *ignored* that transfer should be deleted, a transit home set up, and the hold set back to the top of the priority list
20:11 cait           but sunday night... is not much diferent :)
20:11 cait           not monday here yet
20:10 wizzyrea       you know what I mean. I hope.
20:10 wizzyrea       monday. my brain is not on.
20:09 wizzyrea       s/transfers/holds/
20:09 wizzyrea       but the deleting holds bug fixed
20:08 wizzyrea       My *instinct* is that the behaviour needs to be preserved
20:07 wizzyrea       thinking like that might be useful.
20:07 cait           and I might be influenced by reading too much about business processes in the last few days :)
20:07 cait           maybe really have a table or drawing
20:07 cait           I tihnk we have to think abou tthe possible processes
20:06 wizzyrea       manual ones, and ones that are tied to a reserve
20:05 wizzyrea       you can have two different types of transfers -
20:05 wizzyrea       well currently
20:05 cait           I would have to draw it I guess
20:04 cait           ? :)
20:04 cait           because it will mess with th ehold.
20:04 cait           yeah
20:04 cait           hm
20:04 wizzyrea       (not being a troll, I really want to know)
20:04 wizzyrea       why?
20:04 cait           it should not be possible to manually do another one
20:04 wizzyrea       should the ability to do this be preserved?
20:04 cait           I mean if something is in transfer already
20:03 wizzyrea       as well as a transfer that is related to a hold.
20:03 wizzyrea       but you can have a transfer that is unrelated to any hold.
20:03 cait           thereshould not be more than one
20:03 wizzyrea       transfers are separate
20:03 cait           and it should be not allowed to trigger a tranfer without resolving the hold first ...
20:03 cait           I assume... since we should not be able to trigger more than one hold at a time on the same item
20:02 rangi          yeah
20:02 rangi          both
20:02 cait           that right?
20:02 wizzyrea       yes, and can be triggered independently as well.
20:02 cait           or when I set something into transfer manually
20:02 cait           transfers get created when a hold is triggered?
20:02 cait           hm
20:02 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9322 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , If multiple transfers exist (from circ/branchtransfers.pl), completing one completes them all
20:02 wizzyrea       bug 9322 - what do you think of the assertion that there should probably never be more than one transfer on an item at a time?
20:01 wizzyrea       ok, since there are people here
19:57 cait           good morning wizzyrea :)
19:57 libsysguy      kia ora wizzyrea
19:52 wizzyrea       let's try that again - good morning
19:51 Guest286       good morning :)
19:12 cait           wish I could!
19:12 kathryn        come visit :)
19:12 kathryn        aha
19:12 cait           still so warm?
19:12 kathryn        this is warm for 8am...
19:11 cait           oh
19:11 kathryn        <-- I wore a t-shirt on the ferry today!
19:11 huginn         kathryn: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0°C (7:00 AM NZDT on February 04, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
19:11 kathryn        @wunder wellington, nz
19:10 cait           :)
19:10 kathryn        hi there cait :)
19:10 cait           good morning kathryn :)
19:07 tweetbot`      [off] twitter: @oleonard: "I’m on a #bootstrap kick. Want to get back to getting it into #kohails."
18:44 * cait         has soup
18:40 drojf          cait: i'm at home, all is fine ;)
18:40 cait           drojf: stop complaining :)
18:39 huginn         cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 0.9°C (7:35 PM CET on February 03, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: 1.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Steady).
18:39 cait           @wunder Konstanz
18:38 rangi          My stop bbiab
18:31 huginn         drojf: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
18:31 drojf          huginn: you are missing the snow rain
18:31 huginn         drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 3.4°C (7:12 PM CET on February 03, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
18:31 drojf          @wunder berlin, germany
18:29 rangi          Still warm for 7am though
18:28 drojf          i thought it's an urban legend
18:28 drojf          sun? i have heard about that
18:28 cait           sad?
18:28 huginn         rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0°C (7:00 AM NZDT on February 04, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
18:28 rangi          @wunder nzwn
18:28 rangi          11 days of sun in a row comes to an end. It's cloudy today
18:25 cait           morning rangi
18:22 drojf          morning rangi
18:21 rangi          Morning
15:58 cait           no not :)
15:58 cait           lol
15:57 drojf          not?
15:57 drojf          yay, cait is volunteering \o/
15:56 cait           hm maybe
15:56 drojf          or build our own packages
15:23 cait           oh boo
15:20 jcamins_away   I don't think they package new versions of Zebra very often, so to use it we'd probably have to install from source.
15:16 cait           probably needs a new version of zebra.. packages and stuff?
15:16 cait           wondering when this will be available to us?
15:16 cait           I may have missed it - blaming timezones :)
15:09 jcamins_away   :)
15:09 jcamins_away   So you should be retroactively interested in my announcement about it as well.
15:08 jcamins_away   For the record, I got excited about that announcement when they first made it and told everyone on #koha how exciting it was.
10:15 cait           oh interesting
09:53 tweetbot`      [off] twitter: @27point7: "OH! Zebra supports left truncation and left+right truncation for ICU since last month! #kohails http://t.co/iYNpZLvb"
09:30 * cait         coulnd't hold it back
09:30 cait           search rewrite!
09:29 tweetbot`      [off] twitter: @27point7: "What?! there is a facet feature in Zebra? could we use it in Kohails? http://t.co/yd2O8y8h"
09:16 wizzyrea       this seems topical for jcamins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyC3PxCdDRc&feature=player_embedded
08:44 wizzyrea       hi cait :)
08:44 drojf          hi cait
08:43 * cait         waves
08:43 drojf          hi wizzyrea
08:42 wizzyrea       morning
08:41 drojf          good morning #koha
05:13 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9308 minor, P5 - low, ---, ed.veal, Pushed to Stable , logo-koha.png not transparent in ccsr theme.
05:13 jenkins_koha   ed.veal: Bug 9308 - logo-koha.png not transparent in ccsr theme
05:13 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.10.x build #57: SUCCESS in 40 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/57/
05:01 wizzyrea       soren says "cats being jedis - that's adorable"
04:54 wizzyrea       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtgtMQwr3Ko&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_960881
04:43 wizzyrea       yusss
04:33 jenkins_koha   Starting build #57 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
04:32 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9268 trivial, P5 - low, ---, liz, Pushed to Stable , Scanning in barcode or ISBN in Acquisitions -> new order submits the form unexpectedly
04:32 jenkins_koha   liz: Bug 9268 - Scanning in barcode or ISBN in Acquisitions -> new order submits the form unexpectedly
04:32 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #266: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/266/
03:55 jenkins_koha   Starting build #266 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
03:55 jcamins_away   Yay!
03:55 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9268 trivial, P5 - low, ---, liz, Pushed to Stable , Scanning in barcode or ISBN in Acquisitions -> new order submits the form unexpectedly
03:55 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9382 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Stable , Bold necessary permissions for staff client access.
03:55 jenkins_koha   * liz: Bug 9268 - Scanning in barcode or ISBN in Acquisitions -> new order submits the form unexpectedly
03:55 jenkins_koha   * Jared Camins-Esakov: Bug 9382: Increment version number
03:55 jenkins_koha   * liz: Bug 9382 - updating permission labels
03:55 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.10.x build #56: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/56/
03:30 jcamins_away   Yay!
03:14 jenkins_koha   Starting build #56 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
03:13 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9174 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Item type image does not display for biblio-level itemtypes in list display in OPAC
03:13 jenkins_koha   Jared Camins-Esakov: Bug 9174: Fix itemtype image display in OPAC lists
03:13 jenkins_koha   Project Koha_3.8.x build #265: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/265/
02:36 jenkins_koha   Starting build #265 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)