IRC log for #koha, 2011-12-19

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:37 Waylon joined #koha
00:37 Waylon hiya all!
00:38 Waylon koha 3.0presomething. How easy is it going to be to speed things up slightly, using memcached?
00:38 Waylon And what about nginx? how do I use that with koha
00:38 Waylon ?
00:39 eythian 3.6 supports memcached fairly easily I think. I doubt 3.0 does.
00:39 Waylon during a siege using 15 concurrent, im getting returns of up to 16 seconds... thats.. bad.
00:39 druthb joined #koha
00:39 eythian I don't think you'd get much gain from nginx (though you might.) It'd still be a CGI app though.
00:40 druthb o/
00:40 eythian Waylon: but a slow query watcher on your database, maybe you've got something that's taking too long there, or IO troubles.
00:40 eythian *put
00:40 eythian perhaps a missing index somewhere.
00:40 Waylon so, if i want speed, im going to have to upgrade koha?
00:40 eythian it'd be the easiest way, yes.
00:41 Waylon Longest transaction:       17.45
00:41 eythian You could always backport the memcached etc. patches, but it'd be a fair bit of work.
00:41 Waylon Response time:        6.38 secs
00:41 eythian My money is on it spending that time in the database.
00:41 Waylon right
00:42 eythian I think the option you should turn on is slow-query-log, or something similr
00:42 Waylon right
00:42 eythian it'll make mysql dump out anything that takes longer than /n/ seconds
00:42 eythian (or ms perhaps)
00:42 eythian which helps figuring out where problems are.
00:43 rangi thats 3.0 pre .. 3.0.0 was releases 10 aug 2008 ... so its even older than that so trying to backport to that will be a world of pain
00:44 Waylon yeah. hell.. i tried doing a git review on this install.. i couldn't find a version match. its a mismash of pre and manually applied patches that I can't figure out, and the arabic mods.
00:45 Waylon so... yeah.. backporting memcached patches... not going to happen.
00:47 eythian I'd recommend upgrading, but in the short term check out your database.
00:48 Waylon and getting nginx to replace apache, not going to be easy either?
00:48 eythian Probably easier, but apache isn't adding 16 seconds of delay to your requests.
00:50 eythian (unless something else is, and your apache maxchilds is set low)
01:04 Waylon hmm.. slow queries are inserts into sessions, and a borrower_attribute increment due to login (tracking times logged in for that user, only done while logging in) both of them are query time 2. but once the first query is done by siege.. there isn't any more slow queries.
01:04 Waylon yet the siege time still increaes.
01:06 Waylon this server runs on a virtual machine, how much memory should i allow for each apache child in calculations?
01:06 Waylon xen vm that is.
01:06 Waylon not a first gen virtualbox.
01:20 Waylon okay.. my apache is prefork type.
01:20 Waylon StartServers          5
01:20 Waylon MinSpareServers       5
01:20 Waylon MaxSpareServers      10
01:20 Waylon MaxClients          150
01:20 Waylon MaxRequestsPerChild   0
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01:42 druthb how big is count(*) from sessions?
01:43 druthb Waylon:  ^^   I've found that cleaning up the clutter there helps.
01:45 jcamins_away Yikes! Pre-3.0?
01:46 Waylon 3.0.0.pre2 i think it started out as.
01:46 Waylon yea
01:46 jcamins_away Better you than me!
01:46 jcamins_away Waylon: I have no useful advice to offer, but I'd agree with druthb that your sessions table should be cleaned.
01:47 jcamins_away And with eythian that you should figure out a way to upgrade.
01:47 Waylon eventually ill get it upgraded, and be developing with you guys.. until then... this job is mostly sysadmin and coding additions.
01:48 Waylon 1035 sessions.. yeah....
01:49 druthb well, that's not the issue--the times I've seen it being a problem, it had tens of thousands of entries.
01:53 Waylon its only 15 concurrent users for the siege.. i don't get why the response time increases.
01:55 Waylon ah.. adding a branch limit on the zebra query, adds a second.
01:57 Waylon but, a search that results in a precise match redirect, with only basic kw search... took 11 seconds to redirect.
01:58 Waylon maybe i need to tune zebra?
02:02 eythian do you know that zebra is the issue?
02:02 eythian if not, you can't begin to tune it
02:11 Waylon mysqld is at the top of the top list..
02:11 jcamins_away Waylon: I would be shocked if it were Zebra.
02:11 * Waylon nods.
02:11 jcamins_away Waylon: in fact, if it were Zebra, I'd be so shocked that I might fall over.
02:11 jcamins_away ;)
02:12 Waylon it may be archiac and mysterious, difficult to work with, but it was coded well?
02:12 jcamins_away Waylon: I don't know about "coded well," but it's pretty fast.
02:14 eythian when it works, it works really quite well. When it breaks it gets mysterious.
02:14 * Waylon nods.
02:14 eythian I think this is due in no small part to me not really understanding how it works inside.
02:14 Waylon cryptic messages like error: 114
02:15 eythian yeah
02:15 Waylon looks like mysql might need optimizing.
02:16 eythian there also have been speed improvements in newer Koha versions...just sayin' :)
02:16 Waylon yeah.
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02:19 Markus2 is now known as Waylon2
02:19 Waylon2 ouch
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02:20 jcamins_away Hmmm... I think Waylon is having some connection troubles.
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02:21 Markus3 is now known as Waylon4
02:21 Waylon4 ...
02:21 Waylon4 damn nz net..
02:21 jcamins_away Waylon4: what on earth are you doing?
02:22 jcamins_away (as an aside, I think you missed Waylon3)
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02:26 Waylon23 router needed a complete reset.... not sure why.
02:26 jcamins_away 23? Wow, we missed 5-24!
02:26 Waylon left #koha
02:26 Waylon23 hah. nah, i just added a random number.
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02:28 Waylon and my reindex cron job just started on the test server.. and i didn't load siege on a screen. damn.
02:28 Waylon can't see the performance changes.
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02:30 Waylon anyway, afk, back later
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03:20 AmitG heya bag, rangi
03:20 bag hey there AmitG
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05:06 cait joined #koha
05:07 cait good morning #koha
05:07 eythian hello cait
05:07 cait hi eythian :)
05:11 huginn` New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5473] 952 fields should be filled in by Acquisitions <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5473>
05:15 cait eythian: what are you working on that late?
05:15 eythian it's not late, it's still sunny outside.
05:15 eythian I'm making the returns process be not dependent on barcodes.
05:15 eythian i.e, you can do a return using an item number.
05:16 eythian however, a lot of the code around there is Old Code that treats barcode like a primary key, so I'm having to refactor a whole lot.
05:17 eythian the next step for this would be allowing searching for titles on the circ screen to issue/return things.
05:17 eythian (for a new client we have who doesn't tend to use barcodes so much)
05:21 cait ah
05:22 cait well good luck :)
05:22 eythian yeah, ta :)
05:43 AmitG heya Robin, cait
05:44 cait morning AmitG
05:44 cait time to go - bbiab
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05:47 eythian hi
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05:58 Waylon hi
05:58 wahanui hey, Waylon
05:59 Waylon .... that was abit quick for a human.
05:59 eythian wahanui is always on the ball.
05:59 Waylon A bot?
05:59 wahanui a bot are longstrings
05:59 Waylon a bot.
06:00 Waylon !commands
06:00 Waylon no?
06:00 wahanui somebody said no was failing unit tests
06:01 Waylon koha?
06:01 wahanui it has been said that koha is a free software ils see http://koha-community.org for more info
06:01 Waylon liblime?
06:01 wahanui liblime is no brandcuffs
06:01 Waylon ptfs?
06:01 wahanui ptfs is Piss-Taking Flaming Swines!
06:01 eythian
06:01 Waylon omg..
06:02 eythian Waylon: hipsters is http://www.harrisburgbicyclecl[…]es/wheelclub1.jpg
06:02 eythian err
06:02 eythian wahanui: hipsters is http://www.harrisburgbicyclecl[…]es/wheelclub1.jpg
06:02 wahanui i already had it that way, eythian.
06:02 eythian heh good.
06:03 Waylon waylon?
06:03 wahanui i heard waylon was having some connection troubles.
06:04 Waylon wahanui, Waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for Mandumah.com.
06:05 wahanui ...but waylon is having some connection troubles....
06:05 Waylon hrm.. damn.
06:05 mib_41oce5 Hello
06:05 eythian no wahanui, Waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for Mandumah.com.
06:05 wahanui okay, eythian.
06:06 Waylon hello mib_41oce5 !
06:06 mib_41oce5 I am new to Koha
06:06 mib_41oce5 one basic question: is Koha and LibLime koha different?
06:06 eythian mib_41oce5: yep
06:07 Waylon welcome! Yes, sadly, Koha and Liblime broke company some time ago... Liblime has a fork off of old code... and has extensively customised it.
06:07 mib_41oce5 ok, damn, two days wasted
06:07 mib_41oce5 I installed debain in my Mac using Virtual Box
06:08 Waylon Hmm? at least you haven't invested money into a liblime solution.
06:08 mib_41oce5 and simply searched google for Koha and ended up installing liblime koha
06:08 Waylon ooo.
06:08 eythian sounds unpleasant
06:08 Waylon how did that happen?
06:08 mib_41oce5 but now when I researched more
06:08 Waylon so.. the first result that comes up is liblime koha?
06:08 mib_41oce5 yes
06:09 mib_41oce5 i ended up installing from version 4.08 from liblime but it's not working
06:09 Waylon yeah... we can't help you with liblime.
06:10 Waylon at least i can't.
06:10 mib_41oce5 have to uninstall and install 3.4 from koha
06:10 mib_41oce5 yes, I understand
06:10 eythian http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]on_Debian_Squeeze <-- mib_41oce5, perhaps start here
06:10 eythian 3.6 is the current version that you want.
06:10 * Waylon nods. "For maximum support from this channel, yes.
06:10 Waylon 3.6...
06:10 mib_41oce5 Thanks for the link
06:10 mib_41oce5 oh 3.6
06:10 Waylon man, im way behind on mandumah.
06:11 Waylon prehistorically behind.
06:11 eythian that's what we keep telling you ;)
06:11 mib_41oce5 ok great thanks
06:11 mib_41oce5 will have a got at it today
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06:12 kf hi #koha
06:12 Waylon yeah. gotta recode all this stuff into a module that i can patch in and out without too much trouble though. And teach the designer how to use koha's translation system, and css customization to move things around.
06:14 Waylon so yeah.. alot of work to upgrade.
06:14 eythian yeah. The best way to deal with that really is just to keep on top of it all.
06:16 * Waylon nods. "And then you got the os security updates, vunerablility reports, optimization, drupal security updates... properly on top of, its a fulltime job?"
06:16 * Waylon is the sole admin of mandumah.com... and is feeling slightly bewildered by how much there is to do.
06:17 eythian clearly you just need to automate things ;)
06:18 Waylon how do you automate without the risk of breaking something?
06:18 eythian you have a test server you roll out to first.
06:20 * Waylon nods, "I have one of those. my 2 bare metal xen servers, have 1 live server and 1 non-public server, one will be used for dev,. the other for all updates.
06:20 * eythian needs to develop some Puppet modules for Koha
06:20 Waylon hmm? Puppet?
06:21 eythian puppet makes automating server configs easier.
06:23 Waylon ah.
06:25 Waylon I think ill do rsync from the update server to the 2 live servers, of koha code and the various configs that need to be changed. (apache, bind), and the actual data archive.
06:28 eythian http://www.kallisti.net.nz/~ro[…]aming_handout.pdf <-- also read my KohaCon slides if you need more incentive ;)
06:28 Waylon yeah.. incentives are good.
06:29 Waylon wha? a arabic crowd?
06:29 Waylon where was this?
06:30 eythian I was doing a workshop thing in Malaysia, that's where that photo is from.
06:30 Waylon ah wow cool.
06:31 Waylon yeah.. i suppose, properly coded, my database within a database idea might be useful.
06:31 eythian every problem can be solved just by adding another layer of abstraction, after all...
06:32 Waylon that is, mandumah is seperated into three segments, currently. but all in the same mysql/zebra ... just abusing the branch table and marc tags.
06:33 Waylon cause.. we don't have branches.
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06:33 eythian wouldn't it be easier just to pretend they're branches?
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06:34 Waylon yeah. thats what i do. for each biblio... those segments that have that biblio in them, have a item in the biblio.
06:34 Waylon ... that changes in 3.6 though, right?
06:34 Waylon zebra doesn't include items anymore?
06:34 eythian zebra does, just the database doesn't
06:35 eythian basically, 952 doesn't exist and is generated when needed.
06:35 eythian (which includes sending to zebra)
06:35 Waylon ah... hrm... so.. how would my system be ported then?
06:35 eythian no reason you couldn't do it the same way.
06:36 eythian you just might query differently inside Koha.
06:37 eythian although my recommendation would be to rebuild it, and make it an option inside Koha so that you can make it public and not worry about it in the future :)
06:37 eythian wholly chao, my code works.
06:37 Waylon yeah. ill probably make an actual table with actual custom marc tags.
06:37 Waylon i think...
06:38 Waylon eh.. im not sure.
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06:38 eythian I'm going to leave it there and go away and hopefully it'll still be working tomorrow.
06:39 eythian well, there is the extended marc thing still there.
06:39 Waylon eythian?
06:39 wahanui eythian is probably in NZ. ;) or a good influence
06:39 Waylon what, thats all thats said? hrm.
06:39 Waylon robin?
06:39 wahanui robin is probably on annual leave
06:39 eythian but, it does seem like you're just making more pain for yourself.
06:39 Waylon Yeah. well.. its what the boss wants.
06:40 eythian sure, but you could do it in a more portable fashion and ultimately not worry about it.
06:40 Waylon hmm, any advice?
06:41 eythian Not really. I'd write up what you need it to do and start a mailing list discussion. I don't really have enough information to be constructive.
06:41 * Waylon nods.
06:42 eythian later, y'all
06:42 Waylon And the authentication by ip , iprange and virtualhost, may be useful to others too.
06:42 eythian definitely.
06:42 eythian we're always adding new mad authentication schemes
06:42 Waylon and referer url
06:43 Waylon so.. currently, virtualhost + referer url  or ip address + virtualhost = pass.
06:43 Waylon on top of standard username/password.
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07:05 magnuse kia ora #koha
07:09 rangi hi magnuse
07:09 kf hi magnuse
07:13 bag eveing
07:13 bag heya magnuse rangi and kf
07:14 kf hi bag
07:15 magnuse hiya rangi kf bag et al
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07:24 indradg @wunder kolkata
07:24 huginn` indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 21.0�C (12:50 PM IST on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 14.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
07:25 magnuse @wunder boo
07:25 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 1.0�C (7:50 AM CET on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: -4.0�C. Windchill: -4.0�C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Steady).
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07:27 alex_a morning koha
07:29 magnuse bonjour alex_a
07:33 kf hi alex_a
07:33 alex_a bonjour magnuse
07:33 alex_a and kf
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07:35 julian_m hi #koha
07:38 kf hi julian_m
07:39 julian_m hi kf
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07:44 sophie_m hello #koha
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07:57 Oak kia ora #koha
07:57 Oak magnuse
07:57 magnuse Oak
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07:57 Oak :)
07:58 kf hi Oak
07:58 Oak Guten Morgen kf :)
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08:11 asaurat hi!
08:12 Oak hello asaurat
08:13 kf hi asaurat
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08:20 gaetan_B hello
08:20 wahanui hey, gaetan_B
08:21 kf hi gaetan_B
08:21 kf Gentle reminder to everyone: plz sing off on patches even if it's not GBSD!
08:22 magnuse kf++
08:23 AmitG heya gaetan_B
08:28 kf and I am serious!
08:30 Oak kf++
08:30 kf no karma, sign offs plz! :)
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08:36 Waylon can Location be a zebra search parameter?
08:36 Waylon like branch: is?
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08:42 reiveune hello
08:44 kf Waylon: I think so
08:44 kf Waylon: in current releases there is a free text search option for location
08:45 kf and hi reiveune
08:45 * Waylon has been abusing the branch system to create divisions within the same database into different sections of the database.
08:45 Waylon so a user that had access to A branch and B branch could only search A or B or both branches.
08:45 Waylon not C branch.
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08:58 huginn` New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6296] Allow authentication to Koha via PKI / x.509 certificates <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6296>
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09:15 francharb hi
09:15 wahanui salut, francharb
09:30 mbalmer so, if instead of writing all of SQL directly in the code, some of it is generated using a Perl module, that Perl module can produce optimal, database dependant SQL, e.g.:
09:30 mbalmer $sql = "select * from table where " . datediff(now, then);
09:31 AmitG heya francharb
09:31 wahanui francharb falls asleep easily at sea.  Don't believe me?  Just ask Brooke.
09:31 mbalmer so datediff produces the right SQL code for mysql or pgsql, depending on which db is being used.
09:31 mbalmer this technique could be used for low-level stuff, but also for high level operations:
09:32 mbalmer $sql = sort_all_books;
09:40 mbalmer I suggest two different modules for this:  SQL for the lower-level SQL formatting, with functions like SQL::today, and DB for higher level procedures, which may boild down to many lines of perl code in the Mysql case while simply calling a stored procedure in the PostgreSQL case.
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11:46 huginn` New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5607] Make fields from issues table available in overdues <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5607>
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12:04 AmitG heya NateC
12:04 mtj mbalmer:  you could call a stored procedure in mysql too?
12:05 mtj http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refma[…]te-procedure.html ?
12:06 mtj http://net.tutsplus.com/tutori[…]tored-procedures/
12:08 mbalmer mtj, that was just an "example".
12:09 mbalmer i.e. to show the flexibility of such a solution
12:11 mtj someone recently corrected me when i said 'mysql doesn't have stored procedures'
12:11 mtj ...so i learned something
12:12 mtj (looks like mysql got them in version 5)
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12:15 NateC Hi AmitG!
12:16 NateC and a good day to everyone else!
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12:24 * kf waves
12:25 * mtj waves to nate n cait
12:26 kf heya mason :)
12:27 mtj heya, long time, no chat :)
12:28 * magnuse waves
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12:33 kf mtj: I blame the time zones :)
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12:36 mtj kf:  yeah, i agree :) and its getting close to the end of the year, too
12:37 kf it's been crazy here
12:37 kf timezones can be blamed for a lot of things
12:38 kf and they don't complain about it
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12:48 tcohen hi #koha
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12:56 sophie_m kf : I have sent a patch for bug 5607, if you want to sign-off
12:56 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5607 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, sophie.meynieux, ASSIGNED , Make fields from issues table available in overdues
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12:59 kf sophie_m: I already moved it on my todo list :)
12:59 kf thx!
12:59 sophie_m kf :-)
13:00 kf glad rangi did the last sign off for the other overdue bug
13:01 kf hard to find time :(
13:01 kf but this one should not be hard to test :)
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13:02 sophie_m no, very easy
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14:11 magnuse \o/
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14:34 kf hm
14:34 kf is there a reason we have no timestamp in borrowers?
14:34 kf and would it be nice to have one?
14:34 jcamins_away kf: no, and yes, respectively.
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14:36 kf hm ok
14:50 mbalmer I did a few tests with (semi)generated SQL vs. static SQL as Koha uses now.  It seems to be a route that workable any only minimal invasive to the existing codebase.
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14:58 kf hi maximep :)
14:59 maximep gooooooooood morning
15:01 mbalmer maybe we expand the userbase in .ch in january a bit ;)
15:01 kf ah, a library interested in koha?
15:02 mbalmer yes, maybe.  at least we get the chance to present it.
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15:07 wizzyrea mornin
15:08 kf hi wizzyrea :)
15:09 kf mbalmer: I gave a presenttion about koha at inetbib in zürich hm last year
15:09 kf got a lot of interest
15:10 mbalmer this will be more discussion style.  this library is my customer since many years,  and they are a bit "unhappy" with their current product.
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15:48 Koha Hi
15:48 wizzyrea hi there
15:48 Koha Amit@
15:50 Koha bg thr
15:52 Koha @wounder delhi
15:52 huginn Koha: I've exhausted my database of quotes
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15:53 wizzyrea well that was random
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15:55 Amitg Hi
15:55 wizzyrea welcome back
15:55 wizzyrea ;)
15:56 Amitg Hi irc on my mobile
15:57 Amitg bg around?
15:57 hdl hi Amitg
15:57 bg yup
15:57 Amitg Hi hdl
15:57 bg is now known as bag
15:57 Amitg Irc on my mobile
15:58 indradg joined #koha
15:59 Amitg Hi indra
16:12 sekjal does anyone have an opinion on the usage of $dbh->last_insert_id()?  it's used very rarely in Koha, and I'm wondering if there is a particular reason
16:12 jcamins_away sekjal: it's not thread-safe.
16:13 jcamins_away sekjal: unless it's implemented in a different way in Perl/DBI than it is in libmysql.
16:13 sekjal I could see there being a race condition... if another INSERT happens before the function is called, you'd get the wrong ID
16:13 jcamins_away Right.
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16:14 sekjal wondering how likely that actually is
16:14 hdl last_insert_id can be and should be retricted to table.
16:14 jcamins_away hdl: still not thread-safe.
16:14 hdl jcamins_away: yep.
16:14 jcamins_away sekjal: in my experience using C (granted, that was pretty high-performance), very.
16:14 hdl But no other way to get the latest id in table.
16:15 jcamins_away hdl: yes, and it's a problem, but that's probably why Koha doesn't use it.
16:15 sekjal suppose I could do a query looking for a row that matches all the field values I just put in...
16:15 mbalmer with postgres you can use a serial, maybe mysql has sth similar.
16:15 hdl otherwise, we should do a select on the table... which imho is quite... awkward too.
16:15 sekjal that seems so inelegant, though
16:16 sekjal what I'm looking to do:  alter EnqueueLetter to return the message_id of the newly added message, instead of just "true"
16:17 mbalmer check if mysql does have the equivalent of PostgreSQL serials, then it is easy.
16:17 jcamins_away mbalmer: if Koha used transactions, it'd be easy.
16:17 mbalmer not using transactions is a crime anyways.  but that is a different story.
16:17 jcamins_away Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure Koha uses autocommit=1.
16:18 mbalmer the whole SQL underpinnings seem a bit, well, questionable.  but of course that leaves room for improvement.
16:18 mbalmer ;)
16:18 mbalmer and that means fun.
16:19 hdl mbalmer: so many ways to make improvements :D
16:19 mbalmer yeah ;)
16:20 mbalmer I just hope I get a few customers that use it, so I can justify putting some effort in to the code.
16:24 sekjal hmmm... I can't assume that the information INSERT'ed in EnqueueLetter is unique... it would be safe to do so with the timestamp, but that's using MySQL's NOW()
16:24 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6323] Attach/move items -- error handling cleanup <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6323>
16:25 sekjal but if I order by the timestamp desc, and limit to 1, that should reduce the odds fetching the wrong info to virtually nil
16:25 trea is now known as trea-phone
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16:27 Amitg Hi sekjal
16:27 sekjal hi, Amitg
16:27 mbalmer sekjal, no hacks, do it right ;)
16:28 mbalmer MySQL _has_ the SERIAL data type.  so use it.
16:29 sekjal mbalmer:  are you proposing I change the Koha data structure for my project?
16:29 mbalmer 1) $id = next serial value
16:29 mbalmer 2) insert into … (id, …) values ($id, ...)
16:29 mbalmer 3) return $id
16:30 sekjal mbalmer: so the 'next serial value' command reserves the ID?
16:30 Amitg left #koha
16:31 mbalmer a serial is a 'BIGINT UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT UNIQUE'
16:31 matts is now known as matts_away
16:31 maximep i don't get at all the difference with last_insert_id and getting the next id
16:31 mbalmer in postgresql you use 'nextval(serial_name)', there exists a similar idiom in MySQL
16:32 mbalmer maximep, getting the id from a serial upfront is safe, thread safe as well.
16:32 sekjal mbalmer:  does nextval(serial_name) reserve that new id?  so no other process could slip in and claim it in the interim?
16:32 mbalmer beacuse each values is guaranteed to be produced only once
16:32 trea-phone is now known as trea
16:33 mbalmer sekjal, exactly, that is what serials are for.
16:33 maximep i dont understand that serials stuff... the mysql doc says it's just a good old auto_increment unique
16:33 hdl sekjal: I would not take  it  for granted it works same as postgresql. That Would need some test...
16:33 mbalmer it's for sure worth the time to read the docs about them
16:33 mbalmer hdl, ack.
16:34 mbalmer mysql is such a POS that I would also test it before using it ;)
16:34 sekjal mbalmer:  making that kind of change to the Koha datastructure is outside my specification
16:34 sekjal I'll have to find an alternate route
16:34 mbalmer like non working, not safe code?
16:34 mbalmer ;)
16:35 maximep i dont understand how last_insert_id is not threadsafe. It returns the last insert from that particular connection, doesn't it ?
16:35 mbalmer what if, in the meantime, someone else inserted sth?
16:36 maximep someone else will be on a new connection to the db
16:36 hdl maximep: should be... But if you are using persistent connection, then you may have some strange behaviour.
16:38 maximep hmmm, pretty sure cgi scripts will always create a new connection
16:38 mbalmer well, if you use MySQL you probably don't care to much about your data anyways, so the implementation details don't matter either ;P
16:38 sekjal http://www.gossamer-threads.co[…]rk%3F%3F_P171325/
16:39 maximep threadsafe from the same sth
16:40 sekjal ok, so by that logic, modifying EnqueueLetter should be okay.  dbh is created, sth is set and executed, then subroutine ends
16:40 mbalmer using stuff like last insert ids only creates non-portable code.  creating a new unique id upfront, and using it in the next insert can be made portable.
16:41 maximep i just dont understand how you can create a new id upfront
16:41 maximep never seen anyone do that in myusql
16:41 mbalmer by using a monotonically increasing number.
16:42 sekjal mbalmer:  if you file a sub-bug to your "Koha uses MySQL" omnibus, detailing the methodology required for this, we can work on implementing it for Koha 4.0
16:43 sekjal until then, I'm going to stick with last_insert_id(), as it's safe in this specific instance, and does have precedent elsewhere in the codebase
16:43 mbalmer no two callers can get same number if you use the right mechanism.
16:43 mbalmer yeah, repeating errors makes it correct use ;)
16:44 mbalmer but go on, really, it is easy enough to fix later.
16:44 sekjal mbalmer:  I'll happy to fix it in both my instance, and the legacy ones, at such time as there is a basis for it
16:45 mbalmer as I said before, personally I think that code should be correct.  But then maybe that is because I come from a different corner ;)
16:45 mbalmer (development wise, that is)
16:46 reiveune bye
16:46 reiveune left #koha
16:46 maximep you come from a postgresql snob corner :p
16:47 wizzyrea ^^
16:47 maximep i wish I had a project to learn to use all it's powerful features
16:47 maximep because i know it's way more powerful than mysql. someday :/
16:47 mbalmer maximep, only partly true (the snobcorner), it's actually worse ;)
16:48 mbalmer with the introduction of a shim layer, I think that both mysql and pgsql can be used.
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17:01 kf ok, time to leave - bye all :)
17:01 kf left #koha
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17:05 francharb` joined #koha
17:06 rhcl time to hide
17:07 rhcl is now known as ketchup
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17:09 hdl see ya
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17:17 gaetan_B bye
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17:40 cait joined #koha
17:41 cait hi again #koha
17:41 ketchup hihi
17:41 wizzyrea woot cait is back
17:42 cait missed me? :)
17:42 ketchup missed the cookies
17:42 * cait sighs
17:42 cait ok
17:42 * cait hands over the cookies
17:42 ketchup or rather, yes, we missed you cait
17:43 cait too late!
17:43 cait ;)
17:43 * wizzyrea missed cait
17:44 schuster joined #koha
17:44 wizzyrea and her shining, smiling face.
17:44 cait shinnig?
17:44 wizzyrea http://www.google.com/url?sa=t[…]T-Gi6teLsg-mRmYEw
17:46 * wizzyrea gets to work on everybody's digital xmas gifts.
17:46 wizzyrea also: nice unibrow.
17:47 cait can't watch the video - blocked from here
17:47 wizzyrea NO!
17:47 wizzyrea aw
17:47 cait digital xmas gifts?
17:48 melia is now known as melia_away
17:48 wizzyrea i'm getting you all presents and wrapping them in small urls so you don't know what they are ;)
17:49 cait oh
17:49 cait that's wow
17:49 * cait panics because she has nothing to give
17:49 wizzyrea don't
17:49 ago43 is now known as ago43_lunch
17:51 wizzyrea does this work cait: http://grooveshark.com/s/Shiny[…]ople/365FuD?src=5
17:51 cait grooveshark is normally ok :)
17:51 Callender joined #koha
17:51 cait but youtube - lots of problems
17:52 wizzyrea yea :(
17:53 trea is now known as trea-lunch
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18:31 magnus_afk cait, wizzyrea: Shiny Happy People works for me! ;-)
18:31 cait because yo have no gema
18:31 talljoy is now known as talljoy_lunch
18:32 rangi morning
18:32 cait morning rangi
18:32 rangi @wunder wellington nz
18:33 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 12.0�C (7:00 AM NZDT on December 20, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Rising).
18:35 rangi bus time
18:37 rangi I love this week on the bus, no schoolkids, and not many others
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18:40 mbalmer_ is now known as mbalmer
18:43 rangi !jenkins status
18:43 jenkins_koha status of all projects:
18:43 jenkins_koha Koha_3.2.x: last build: 36 (15 j ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/36/
18:43 jenkins_koha Koha_3.4.x: last build: 68 (10 j ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_3.4.x/68/
18:43 jenkins_koha Koha_3.6.x: last build: 25 (5 j 0 h ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_3.6.x/25/
18:43 jenkins_koha Koha_master: last build: 578 (3 j 1 h ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/578/
18:43 cait hm
18:43 cait could be worse?
18:43 cait what's the problem with 3.4?
18:44 rangi just some patches need to be cherry picked
18:45 rangi its test fixes, not broken functionality but be nice to stop them complaining
18:55 rangi ibeardslee: did francois talk to you about the freedom lunch idea?
18:58 ibeardslee no he didn't
19:00 rangi ahh was an idea that one of the days, say these ppl are gonna be eating lunch someplace (level 6 kitchen maybe) you should join them to talk about software freedom
19:00 rangi thats as far as we had thought
19:01 rangi bus stop bbiab
19:01 ibeardslee the academy?
19:06 rangi back
19:07 rangi yeah
19:07 rangi try and catch the ones who are interested
19:07 melia_away is now known as melia
19:09 tcohen left #koha
19:10 ibeardslee 24 of them, but not after a substitute for the session that gets everyone
19:12 ibeardslee 'freedom' is an important part of the Academy
19:12 rangi yup
19:12 rangi this was to catch the ones that really got it
19:12 ibeardslee ahh, and additional session
19:12 ibeardslee sure no harm in that
19:24 trea-lunch is now known as trea
19:27 cait @wunder Konstanz
19:27 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is -1.7�C (8:24 PM CET on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: -3.0�C. Windchill: -2.0�C. Pressure: 30.20 in 1022.6 hPa (Falling).
19:27 maximep let's see what random city i will get
19:27 maximep @wunder yqc
19:27 huginn maximep: The current temperature in Kangirsuk, Quebec is -16.0�C (2:00 PM EST on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Low Drifting Snow. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: -20.0�C. Windchill: -28.0�C. Pressure: 29.51 in 999 hPa (Rising).
19:28 cait brrrrr!
19:28 maximep @wunder ymx
19:28 huginn maximep: The current temperature in Montreal Mirabel, Quebec is -2.0�C (2:00 PM EST on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: -4.0�C. Pressure: 29.67 in 1005 hPa (Falling).
19:28 maximep closer to the truth
19:31 kathryn joined #koha
19:36 bag @wunder sba
19:36 huginn bag: The current temperature in Santa Barbara, California is 13.0�C (10:53 AM PST on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.07 in 1018 hPa (Falling).
19:38 wizzyrea can anyone explain why this appears? http://screencast.com/t/KxbFdxkPQ6U
19:39 rangi hmm not me, never seen that before
19:39 rangi what does the .tt file say
19:39 wizzyrea [Mon Dec 19 13:35:30 2011] [error] [client 192.168.1.137] [Mon Dec 19 13:35:30 2011] batchMod.pl: Problem = a value of 1 has been passed to param without key at /home/liz/kohaclone/C4/Templates.pm line 185., referer: http://koha-staff.
19:39 rangi ie, how does that get set
19:39 wizzyrea that's next ;)
19:42 cait hm some permisson thing perhaps?
19:42 cait indy branches?
19:42 wizzyrea no, I don't think so
19:42 cait user has no rights to edit catalog?
19:42 wizzyrea is superlibrarian (but not the koha user), no indy branches
19:42 cait ok, out of ideas :)
19:42 cait I am looking at your new patch
19:43 cait i was wondering
19:43 jcamins_away wizzyrea: comma missing in a template->param() block.
19:43 cait why it always asked me to "try again"
19:43 wizzyrea what do you want it to say
19:43 talljoy_lunch is now known as talljoy
19:44 * wizzyrea has changed the wording on advisement 3x now
19:44 wizzyrea what's one more
19:44 wizzyrea oo
19:44 wizzyrea jcamins_away: I will look for that.
19:45 jcamins_away wizzyrea: or an equal when there should be an =>
19:49 cait heh
19:50 cait only thought it sounded like there was an error
19:50 cait when it actually succeeded
19:53 wizzyrea I can make it say something different when it succeeds
19:53 wizzyrea if that's better
19:53 cait not sure it's necessary
19:53 * wizzyrea doesn't care, the workflow on that screen is awkward and needs to be fixed.
19:53 wizzyrea which is what the patch does.
19:53 cait was only what I was thinking looking at it
19:53 cait yep
19:53 cait it's a nice enhancement :)
19:54 wizzyrea naw if you think it's bad wording we should change it. I'll fix it
19:55 mbalmer re
19:55 cait wizzyrea: sorry for cuasing you more work
19:56 ago43_lunch is now known as ago43
19:57 wizzyrea ah it's all good
20:06 indradg joined #koha
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20:14 jcamins_away Why's nengard recording new videos for 3.2?
20:16 rangi shes a hipster?
20:17 bag what are you talking about jcamins?
20:17 bag sorry jcamins_away
20:17 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
20:17 jcamins :)
20:17 rangi http://www.web2learning.net/archives/4901
20:17 rangi jsut came through in the feeds
20:17 jcamins She just posted a new video on the Koha 3.2 OPAC, didn't she?
20:17 magnus_afk perhaps it's the medication? ;-)
20:17 * magnus_afk hides
20:18 bag maybe she linked to the wrong video
20:19 jcamins Possible. I just read the title and was confused.
20:19 jcamins Either that or it could be that the title is wrong.
20:25 mbalmer gn8 koha world.
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21:07 rangi w00t w00t
21:07 rangi liw: check this out http://www.kansalliskirjasto.f[…]323856166325.html
21:08 rhcl cool, really cool
21:08 rangi yeah it is
21:08 rhcl what's it say?
21:08 wizzyrea there's a "in english" link at the top
21:08 wizzyrea an*
21:09 rangi summary
21:09 rangi National Library of Finland cancels Ex Libris Primo pilot and investigates Open Source for national digital library
21:09 jcamins Awesome!
21:10 cait finland++ :)
21:12 rhcl the english link at the top took me to their index page, not the document of interest, but translate.google.com gave me the gist of it
21:13 sekjal cait:  you were mentioning something about a timestamp on the borrowers table earlier today
21:13 cait ype
21:13 cait yes
21:13 cait something like a last update date
21:13 sekjal I was thinking, it would be handy to have timestamps for emails, addresses and phone numbers, for "date last verified"
21:14 cait I am not sure if this isn't overcomplicating things
21:14 sekjal I"m sure it is
21:14 cait you can get the update information from action_logs I think
21:14 sekjal the library I was training last week was very information in a verification method for emails, because they don't trust the data they have
21:14 cait it's only a bit hard to get out and a timestamp would also show the date when a borrower was created or transferred - a bit faster than querying action_logs
21:17 cait transferred to deletedborrowers
21:17 cait which brought up that thought today :)
21:17 cait I was wondering about the fastest way to find out when a borrower was deleted
21:17 wizzyrea action logs?
21:17 wizzyrea oh
21:17 wizzyrea nm
21:17 wizzyrea reading fail
21:17 * wizzyrea goes back to her hole.
21:18 tater joined #koha
21:23 wizzyrea is now known as wizzyrea_away
21:23 cait hm
21:23 cait bed time :) night #koha
21:24 cait left #koha
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22:21 liw rangi, meh, the page now says the original press release has been replaced with a new one, which says they'll continue to try to use primo, while using some open source stuff too
22:21 mtate joined #koha
22:21 rangi ahhh
22:22 mtate left #koha
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22:32 rangi liw: the inside story is "That's correct.But it doesn't say they'll use Primo, but Primo Central, which is the metadata index only
22:32 rangi "
22:34 bag is now known as bg
22:34 melia is now known as melia_lunch
22:34 rangi which is just a big catalogue essentially
22:34 rangi but they are gonna use open source to expose it
22:44 bg is now known as bag
22:44 bag left #koha
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22:44 bg is now known as bag
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22:50 melia_lunch is now known as melia
22:58 liw rangi, yeah, that sounds about right, from the Finnish text -- it's still weird that they backed out from a press release
23:00 rangi yeah
23:06 BobB joined #koha
23:12 rhcl ping melia
23:12 melia hi
23:12 liw rangi, I don't see a mention there of which open source library software they'll use -- koha? something else?
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23:58 bag NateC?
23:58 talljoy left #koha
23:59 rhcl bag: whatup?

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