IRC Logs

Time Nick Message
23:59 rhcl bag: whatup?
23:58 bag NateC?
23:12 liw rangi, I don't see a mention there of which open source library software they'll use -- koha? something else?
23:12 melia hi
23:12 rhcl ping melia
23:00 rangi yeah
22:58 liw rangi, yeah, that sounds about right, from the Finnish text -- it's still weird that they backed out from a press release
22:34 rangi but they are gonna use open source to expose it
22:34 rangi which is just a big catalogue essentially
22:32 rangi "
22:32 rangi liw: the inside story is "That's correct.But it doesn't say they'll use Primo, but Primo Central, which is the metadata index only
22:21 rangi ahhh
22:21 liw rangi, meh, the page now says the original press release has been replaced with a new one, which says they'll continue to try to use primo, while using some open source stuff too
21:23 cait bed time :) night #koha
21:23 cait hm
21:17 * wizzyrea goes back to her hole.
21:17 wizzyrea reading fail
21:17 wizzyrea nm
21:17 wizzyrea oh
21:17 wizzyrea action logs?
21:17 cait I was wondering about the fastest way to find out when a borrower was deleted
21:17 cait which brought up that thought today :)
21:17 cait transferred to deletedborrowers
21:14 cait it's only a bit hard to get out and a timestamp would also show the date when a borrower was created or transferred - a bit faster than querying action_logs
21:14 sekjal the library I was training last week was very information in a verification method for emails, because they don't trust the data they have
21:14 cait you can get the update information from action_logs I think
21:14 sekjal I"m sure it is
21:14 cait I am not sure if this isn't overcomplicating things
21:13 sekjal I was thinking, it would be handy to have timestamps for emails, addresses and phone numbers, for "date last verified"
21:13 cait something like a last update date
21:13 cait yes
21:13 cait ype
21:13 sekjal cait: you were mentioning something about a timestamp on the borrowers table earlier today
21:12 rhcl the english link at the top took me to their index page, not the document of interest, but translate.google.com gave me the gist of it
21:10 cait finland++ :)
21:09 jcamins Awesome!
21:09 rangi National Library of Finland cancels Ex Libris Primo pilot and investigates Open Source for national digital library
21:09 rangi summary
21:08 wizzyrea an*
21:08 wizzyrea there's a "in english" link at the top
21:08 rhcl what's it say?
21:08 rangi yeah it is
21:08 rhcl cool, really cool
21:07 rangi liw: check this out http://www.kansalliskirjasto.fi/kirjastoala/uutiset/1323856166325.html
21:07 rangi w00t w00t
20:25 mbalmer gn8 koha world.
20:19 jcamins Either that or it could be that the title is wrong.
20:19 jcamins Possible. I just read the title and was confused.
20:18 bag maybe she linked to the wrong video
20:17 * magnus_afk hides
20:17 magnus_afk perhaps it's the medication? ;-)
20:17 jcamins She just posted a new video on the Koha 3.2 OPAC, didn't she?
20:17 rangi jsut came through in the feeds
20:17 rangi http://www.web2learning.net/archives/4901
20:17 jcamins :)
20:17 bag sorry jcamins_away
20:17 bag what are you talking about jcamins?
20:16 rangi shes a hipster?
20:14 jcamins_away Why's nengard recording new videos for 3.2?
19:57 wizzyrea ah it's all good
19:55 cait wizzyrea: sorry for cuasing you more work
19:55 mbalmer re
19:54 wizzyrea naw if you think it's bad wording we should change it. I'll fix it
19:53 cait it's a nice enhancement :)
19:53 cait yep
19:53 cait was only what I was thinking looking at it
19:53 wizzyrea which is what the patch does.
19:53 * wizzyrea doesn't care, the workflow on that screen is awkward and needs to be fixed.
19:53 cait not sure it's necessary
19:53 wizzyrea if that's better
19:53 wizzyrea I can make it say something different when it succeeds
19:50 cait when it actually succeeded
19:50 cait only thought it sounded like there was an error
19:49 cait heh
19:45 jcamins_away wizzyrea: or an equal when there should be an =>
19:44 wizzyrea jcamins_away: I will look for that.
19:44 wizzyrea oo
19:44 wizzyrea what's one more
19:44 * wizzyrea has changed the wording on advisement 3x now
19:43 wizzyrea what do you want it to say
19:43 cait why it always asked me to "try again"
19:43 jcamins_away wizzyrea: comma missing in a template->param() block.
19:43 cait i was wondering
19:42 cait I am looking at your new patch
19:42 cait ok, out of ideas :)
19:42 wizzyrea is superlibrarian (but not the koha user), no indy branches
19:42 cait user has no rights to edit catalog?
19:42 wizzyrea no, I don't think so
19:42 cait indy branches?
19:42 cait hm some permisson thing perhaps?
19:39 wizzyrea that's next ;)
19:39 rangi ie, how does that get set
19:39 wizzyrea [Mon Dec 19 13:35:30 2011] [error] [client 192.168.1.137] [Mon Dec 19 13:35:30 2011] batchMod.pl: Problem = a value of 1 has been passed to param without key at /home/liz/kohaclone/C4/Templates.pm line 185., referer: http://koha-staff.
19:39 rangi what does the .tt file say
19:39 rangi hmm not me, never seen that before
19:38 wizzyrea can anyone explain why this appears? http://screencast.com/t/KxbFdxkPQ6U
19:36 huginn bag: The current temperature in Santa Barbara, California is 13.0ï¿½C (10:53 AM PST on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 9.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 30.07 in 1018 hPa (Falling).
19:36 bag @wunder sba
19:28 maximep closer to the truth
19:28 huginn maximep: The current temperature in Montreal Mirabel, Quebec is -2.0ï¿½C (2:00 PM EST on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: -4.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 29.67 in 1005 hPa (Falling).
19:28 maximep @wunder ymx
19:28 cait brrrrr!
19:27 huginn maximep: The current temperature in Kangirsuk, Quebec is -16.0ï¿½C (2:00 PM EST on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Low Drifting Snow. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: -20.0ï¿½C. Windchill: -28.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 29.51 in 999 hPa (Rising).
19:27 maximep @wunder yqc
19:27 maximep let's see what random city i will get
19:27 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is -1.7ï¿½C (8:24 PM CET on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: -3.0ï¿½C. Windchill: -2.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 30.20 in 1022.6 hPa (Falling).
19:27 cait @wunder Konstanz
19:12 ibeardslee sure no harm in that
19:12 ibeardslee ahh, and additional session
19:12 rangi this was to catch the ones that really got it
19:12 rangi yup
19:12 ibeardslee 'freedom' is an important part of the Academy
19:10 ibeardslee 24 of them, but not after a substitute for the session that gets everyone
19:07 rangi try and catch the ones who are interested
19:07 rangi yeah
19:06 rangi back
19:01 ibeardslee the academy?
19:01 rangi bus stop bbiab
19:00 rangi thats as far as we had thought
19:00 rangi ahh was an idea that one of the days, say these ppl are gonna be eating lunch someplace (level 6 kitchen maybe) you should join them to talk about software freedom
18:58 ibeardslee no he didn't
18:55 rangi ibeardslee: did francois talk to you about the freedom lunch idea?
18:45 rangi its test fixes, not broken functionality but be nice to stop them complaining
18:44 rangi just some patches need to be cherry picked
18:43 cait what's the problem with 3.4?
18:43 cait could be worse?
18:43 cait hm
18:43 jenkins_koha Koha_master: last build: 578 (3 j 1 h ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/578/
18:43 jenkins_koha Koha_3.6.x: last build: 25 (5 j 0 h ago): SUCCESS: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.6.x/25/
18:43 jenkins_koha Koha_3.4.x: last build: 68 (10 j ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.4.x/68/
18:43 jenkins_koha Koha_3.2.x: last build: 36 (15 j ago): UNSTABLE: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.2.x/36/
18:43 jenkins_koha status of all projects:
18:43 rangi !jenkins status
18:37 rangi I love this week on the bus, no schoolkids, and not many others
18:35 rangi bus time
18:33 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 12.0ï¿½C (7:00 AM NZDT on December 20, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 6.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Rising).
18:32 rangi @wunder wellington nz
18:32 cait morning rangi
18:32 rangi morning
18:31 cait because yo have no gema
18:31 magnus_afk cait, wizzyrea: Shiny Happy People works for me! ;-)
17:52 wizzyrea yea :(
17:51 cait but youtube - lots of problems
17:51 cait grooveshark is normally ok :)
17:51 wizzyrea does this work cait: http://grooveshark.com/s/Shiny+Happy+People/365FuD?src=5
17:49 wizzyrea don't
17:49 * cait panics because she has nothing to give
17:49 cait that's wow
17:49 cait oh
17:48 wizzyrea i'm getting you all presents and wrapping them in small urls so you don't know what they are ;)
17:47 cait digital xmas gifts?
17:47 wizzyrea aw
17:47 wizzyrea NO!
17:47 cait can't watch the video - blocked from here
17:46 wizzyrea also: nice unibrow.
17:46 * wizzyrea gets to work on everybody's digital xmas gifts.
17:44 wizzyrea http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DiCQ0vDAbF7s&ei=_nfvTrDRGMKItgezloWECw&usg=AFQjCNFanIdji5CxhT-Gi6teLsg-mRmYEw
17:44 cait shinnig?
17:44 wizzyrea and her shining, smiling face.
17:43 * wizzyrea missed cait
17:43 cait ;)
17:43 cait too late!
17:42 ketchup or rather, yes, we missed you cait
17:42 * cait hands over the cookies
17:42 cait ok
17:42 * cait sighs
17:42 ketchup missed the cookies
17:42 cait missed me? :)
17:41 wizzyrea woot cait is back
17:41 ketchup hihi
17:41 cait hi again #koha
17:17 gaetan_B bye
17:09 hdl see ya
17:06 rhcl time to hide
17:01 kf ok, time to leave - bye all :)
16:48 mbalmer with the introduction of a shim layer, I think that both mysql and pgsql can be used.
16:47 mbalmer maximep, only partly true (the snobcorner), it's actually worse ;)
16:47 maximep because i know it's way more powerful than mysql. someday :/
16:47 maximep i wish I had a project to learn to use all it's powerful features
16:47 wizzyrea ^^
16:46 maximep you come from a postgresql snob corner :p
16:46 reiveune bye
16:45 mbalmer (development wise, that is)
16:45 mbalmer as I said before, personally I think that code should be correct. But then maybe that is because I come from a different corner ;)
16:44 sekjal mbalmer: I'll happy to fix it in both my instance, and the legacy ones, at such time as there is a basis for it
16:44 mbalmer but go on, really, it is easy enough to fix later.
16:43 mbalmer yeah, repeating errors makes it correct use ;)
16:43 mbalmer no two callers can get same number if you use the right mechanism.
16:43 sekjal until then, I'm going to stick with last_insert_id(), as it's safe in this specific instance, and does have precedent elsewhere in the codebase
16:42 sekjal mbalmer: if you file a sub-bug to your "Koha uses MySQL" omnibus, detailing the methodology required for this, we can work on implementing it for Koha 4.0
16:41 mbalmer by using a monotonically increasing number.
16:41 maximep never seen anyone do that in myusql
16:41 maximep i just dont understand how you can create a new id upfront
16:40 mbalmer using stuff like last insert ids only creates non-portable code. creating a new unique id upfront, and using it in the next insert can be made portable.
16:40 sekjal ok, so by that logic, modifying EnqueueLetter should be okay. dbh is created, sth is set and executed, then subroutine ends
16:39 maximep threadsafe from the same sth
16:38 sekjal http://www.gossamer-threads.com/forum/General_C8/Perl_Programming_F14/MySQL%27s_last_insert_id_and_mod_perl_.._How_does_it_work%3F%3F_P171325/
16:38 mbalmer well, if you use MySQL you probably don't care to much about your data anyways, so the implementation details don't matter either ;P
16:38 maximep hmmm, pretty sure cgi scripts will always create a new connection
16:36 hdl maximep: should be... But if you are using persistent connection, then you may have some strange behaviour.
16:36 maximep someone else will be on a new connection to the db
16:35 mbalmer what if, in the meantime, someone else inserted sth?
16:35 maximep i dont understand how last_insert_id is not threadsafe. It returns the last insert from that particular connection, doesn't it ?
16:34 mbalmer ;)
16:34 mbalmer like non working, not safe code?
16:34 sekjal I'll have to find an alternate route
16:34 sekjal mbalmer: making that kind of change to the Koha datastructure is outside my specification
16:34 mbalmer mysql is such a POS that I would also test it before using it ;)
16:33 mbalmer hdl, ack.
16:33 mbalmer it's for sure worth the time to read the docs about them
16:33 hdl sekjal: I would not take it for granted it works same as postgresql. That Would need some test...
16:33 maximep i dont understand that serials stuff... the mysql doc says it's just a good old auto_increment unique
16:33 mbalmer sekjal, exactly, that is what serials are for.
16:32 mbalmer beacuse each values is guaranteed to be produced only once
16:32 sekjal mbalmer: does nextval(serial_name) reserve that new id? so no other process could slip in and claim it in the interim?
16:32 mbalmer maximep, getting the id from a serial upfront is safe, thread safe as well.
16:31 mbalmer in postgresql you use 'nextval(serial_name)', there exists a similar idiom in MySQL
16:31 maximep i don't get at all the difference with last_insert_id and getting the next id
16:31 mbalmer a serial is a 'BIGINT UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT UNIQUE'
16:30 sekjal mbalmer: so the 'next serial value' command reserves the ID?
16:29 mbalmer 3) return $id
16:29 mbalmer 2) insert into â€¦ (id, â€¦) values ($id, ...)
16:29 mbalmer 1) $id = next serial value
16:29 sekjal mbalmer: are you proposing I change the Koha data structure for my project?
16:28 mbalmer MySQL _has_ the SERIAL data type. so use it.
16:27 mbalmer sekjal, no hacks, do it right ;)
16:27 sekjal hi, Amitg
16:27 Amitg Hi sekjal
16:25 sekjal but if I order by the timestamp desc, and limit to 1, that should reduce the odds fetching the wrong info to virtually nil
16:24 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6323] Attach/move items -- error handling cleanup <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6323>
16:24 sekjal hmmm... I can't assume that the information INSERT'ed in EnqueueLetter is unique... it would be safe to do so with the timestamp, but that's using MySQL's NOW()
16:20 mbalmer I just hope I get a few customers that use it, so I can justify putting some effort in to the code.
16:19 mbalmer yeah ;)
16:19 hdl mbalmer: so many ways to make improvements :D
16:18 mbalmer and that means fun.
16:18 mbalmer ;)
16:18 mbalmer the whole SQL underpinnings seem a bit, well, questionable. but of course that leaves room for improvement.
16:17 jcamins_away Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure Koha uses autocommit=1.
16:17 mbalmer not using transactions is a crime anyways. but that is a different story.
16:17 jcamins_away mbalmer: if Koha used transactions, it'd be easy.
16:17 mbalmer check if mysql does have the equivalent of PostgreSQL serials, then it is easy.
16:16 sekjal what I'm looking to do: alter EnqueueLetter to return the message_id of the newly added message, instead of just "true"
16:15 sekjal that seems so inelegant, though
16:15 hdl otherwise, we should do a select on the table... which imho is quite... awkward too.
16:15 mbalmer with postgres you can use a serial, maybe mysql has sth similar.
16:15 sekjal suppose I could do a query looking for a row that matches all the field values I just put in...
16:15 jcamins_away hdl: yes, and it's a problem, but that's probably why Koha doesn't use it.
16:14 hdl But no other way to get the latest id in table.
16:14 jcamins_away sekjal: in my experience using C (granted, that was pretty high-performance), very.
16:14 hdl jcamins_away: yep.
16:14 jcamins_away hdl: still not thread-safe.
16:14 hdl last_insert_id can be and should be retricted to table.
16:14 sekjal wondering how likely that actually is
16:13 jcamins_away Right.
16:13 sekjal I could see there being a race condition... if another INSERT happens before the function is called, you'd get the wrong ID
16:13 jcamins_away sekjal: unless it's implemented in a different way in Perl/DBI than it is in libmysql.
16:12 jcamins_away sekjal: it's not thread-safe.
16:12 sekjal does anyone have an opinion on the usage of $dbh->last_insert_id()? it's used very rarely in Koha, and I'm wondering if there is a particular reason
15:59 Amitg Hi indra
15:57 Amitg Irc on my mobile
15:57 Amitg Hi hdl
15:57 bg yup
15:57 hdl hi Amitg
15:57 Amitg bg around?
15:56 Amitg Hi irc on my mobile
15:55 wizzyrea ;)
15:55 wizzyrea welcome back
15:55 Amitg Hi
15:53 wizzyrea well that was random
15:52 huginn Koha: I've exhausted my database of quotes
15:52 Koha @wounder delhi
15:50 Koha bg thr
15:48 Koha Amit@
15:48 wizzyrea hi there
15:48 Koha Hi
15:10 mbalmer this will be more discussion style. this library is my customer since many years, and they are a bit "unhappy" with their current product.
15:09 kf got a lot of interest
15:09 kf mbalmer: I gave a presenttion about koha at inetbib in zÃ¼rich hm last year
15:08 kf hi wizzyrea :)
15:07 wizzyrea mornin
15:02 mbalmer yes, maybe. at least we get the chance to present it.
15:01 kf ah, a library interested in koha?
15:01 mbalmer maybe we expand the userbase in .ch in january a bit ;)
14:59 maximep gooooooooood morning
14:58 kf hi maximep :)
14:50 mbalmer I did a few tests with (semi)generated SQL vs. static SQL as Koha uses now. It seems to be a route that workable any only minimal invasive to the existing codebase.
14:36 kf hm ok
14:34 jcamins_away kf: no, and yes, respectively.
14:34 kf and would it be nice to have one?
14:34 kf is there a reason we have no timestamp in borrowers?
14:34 kf hm
14:11 magnuse \o/
13:02 sophie_m no, very easy
13:01 kf but this one should not be hard to test :)
13:01 kf hard to find time :(
13:00 kf glad rangi did the last sign off for the other overdue bug
12:59 sophie_m kf :-)
12:59 kf thx!
12:59 kf sophie_m: I already moved it on my todo list :)
12:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5607 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, sophie.meynieux, ASSIGNED , Make fields from issues table available in overdues
12:56 sophie_m kf : I have sent a patch for bug 5607, if you want to sign-off
12:48 tcohen hi #koha
12:38 kf and they don't complain about it
12:37 kf timezones can be blamed for a lot of things
12:37 kf it's been crazy here
12:36 mtj kf: yeah, i agree :) and its getting close to the end of the year, too
12:33 kf mtj: I blame the time zones :)
12:28 * magnuse waves
12:27 mtj heya, long time, no chat :)
12:26 kf heya mason :)
12:25 * mtj waves to nate n cait
12:24 * kf waves
12:16 NateC and a good day to everyone else!
12:15 NateC Hi AmitG!
12:12 mtj (looks like mysql got them in version 5)
12:11 mtj ...so i learned something
12:11 mtj someone recently corrected me when i said 'mysql doesn't have stored procedures'
12:09 mbalmer i.e. to show the flexibility of such a solution
12:08 mbalmer mtj, that was just an "example".
12:06 mtj http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/an-introduction-to-stored-procedures/
12:05 mtj http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/create-procedure.html ?
12:04 mtj mbalmer: you could call a stored procedure in mysql too?
12:04 AmitG heya NateC
11:46 huginn` New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5607] Make fields from issues table available in overdues <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5607>
09:40 mbalmer I suggest two different modules for this: SQL for the lower-level SQL formatting, with functions like SQL::today, and DB for higher level procedures, which may boild down to many lines of perl code in the Mysql case while simply calling a stored procedure in the PostgreSQL case.
09:32 mbalmer $sql = sort_all_books;
09:31 mbalmer this technique could be used for low-level stuff, but also for high level operations:
09:31 mbalmer so datediff produces the right SQL code for mysql or pgsql, depending on which db is being used.
09:31 wahanui francharb falls asleep easily at sea. Don't believe me? Just ask Brooke.
09:31 AmitG heya francharb
09:30 mbalmer $sql = "select * from table where " . datediff(now, then);
09:30 mbalmer so, if instead of writing all of SQL directly in the code, some of it is generated using a Perl module, that Perl module can produce optimal, database dependant SQL, e.g.:
09:15 wahanui salut, francharb
09:15 francharb hi
08:58 huginn` New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6296] Allow authentication to Koha via PKI / x.509 certificates <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6296>
08:45 Waylon not C branch.
08:45 Waylon so a user that had access to A branch and B branch could only search A or B or both branches.
08:45 * Waylon has been abusing the branch system to create divisions within the same database into different sections of the database.
08:45 kf and hi reiveune
08:44 kf Waylon: in current releases there is a free text search option for location
08:44 kf Waylon: I think so
08:42 reiveune hello
08:36 Waylon like branch: is?
08:36 Waylon can Location be a zebra search parameter?
08:30 kf no karma, sign offs plz! :)
08:30 Oak kf++
08:28 kf and I am serious!
08:23 AmitG heya gaetan_B
08:22 magnuse kf++
08:21 kf Gentle reminder to everyone: plz sing off on patches even if it's not GBSD!
08:21 kf hi gaetan_B
08:20 wahanui hey, gaetan_B
08:20 gaetan_B hello
08:13 kf hi asaurat
08:12 Oak hello asaurat
08:11 asaurat hi!
07:58 Oak Guten Morgen kf :)
07:58 kf hi Oak
07:57 Oak :)
07:57 magnuse Oak
07:57 Oak magnuse
07:57 Oak kia ora #koha
07:44 sophie_m hello #koha
07:39 julian_m hi kf
07:38 kf hi julian_m
07:35 julian_m hi #koha
07:33 alex_a and kf
07:33 alex_a bonjour magnuse
07:33 kf hi alex_a
07:29 magnuse bonjour alex_a
07:27 alex_a morning koha
07:25 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 1.0ï¿½C (7:50 AM CET on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: -4.0ï¿½C. Windchill: -4.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Steady).
07:25 magnuse @wunder boo
07:24 huginn` indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 21.0ï¿½C (12:50 PM IST on December 19, 2011). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 14.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
07:24 indradg @wunder kolkata
07:15 magnuse hiya rangi kf bag et al
07:14 kf hi bag
07:13 bag heya magnuse rangi and kf
07:13 bag eveing
07:09 kf hi magnuse
07:09 rangi hi magnuse
07:05 magnuse kia ora #koha
06:43 Waylon on top of standard username/password.
06:43 Waylon so.. currently, virtualhost + referer url or ip address + virtualhost = pass.
06:42 Waylon and referer url
06:42 eythian we're always adding new mad authentication schemes
06:42 eythian definitely.
06:42 Waylon And the authentication by ip , iprange and virtualhost, may be useful to others too.
06:42 eythian later, y'all
06:41 * Waylon nods.
06:41 eythian Not really. I'd write up what you need it to do and start a mailing list discussion. I don't really have enough information to be constructive.
06:40 Waylon hmm, any advice?
06:40 eythian sure, but you could do it in a more portable fashion and ultimately not worry about it.
06:39 Waylon Yeah. well.. its what the boss wants.
06:39 eythian but, it does seem like you're just making more pain for yourself.
06:39 wahanui robin is probably on annual leave
06:39 Waylon robin?
06:39 Waylon what, thats all thats said? hrm.
06:39 wahanui eythian is probably in NZ. ;) or a good influence
06:39 Waylon eythian?
06:39 eythian well, there is the extended marc thing still there.
06:38 eythian I'm going to leave it there and go away and hopefully it'll still be working tomorrow.
06:38 Waylon eh.. im not sure.
06:37 Waylon i think...
06:37 Waylon yeah. ill probably make an actual table with actual custom marc tags.
06:37 eythian wholly chao, my code works.
06:37 eythian although my recommendation would be to rebuild it, and make it an option inside Koha so that you can make it public and not worry about it in the future :)
06:36 eythian you just might query differently inside Koha.
06:35 eythian no reason you couldn't do it the same way.
06:35 Waylon ah... hrm... so.. how would my system be ported then?
06:35 eythian (which includes sending to zebra)
06:35 eythian basically, 952 doesn't exist and is generated when needed.
06:34 eythian zebra does, just the database doesn't
06:34 Waylon zebra doesn't include items anymore?
06:34 Waylon ... that changes in 3.6 though, right?
06:34 Waylon yeah. thats what i do. for each biblio... those segments that have that biblio in them, have a item in the biblio.
06:33 eythian wouldn't it be easier just to pretend they're branches?
06:33 Waylon cause.. we don't have branches.
06:32 Waylon that is, mandumah is seperated into three segments, currently. but all in the same mysql/zebra ... just abusing the branch table and marc tags.
06:31 eythian every problem can be solved just by adding another layer of abstraction, after all...
06:31 Waylon yeah.. i suppose, properly coded, my database within a database idea might be useful.
06:30 Waylon ah wow cool.
06:30 eythian I was doing a workshop thing in Malaysia, that's where that photo is from.
06:29 Waylon where was this?
06:29 Waylon wha? a arabic crowd?
06:28 Waylon yeah.. incentives are good.
06:28 eythian http://www.kallisti.net.nz/~robin/kohacon11_upstreaming_handout.pdf <-- also read my KohaCon slides if you need more incentive ;)
06:25 Waylon I think ill do rsync from the update server to the 2 live servers, of koha code and the various configs that need to be changed. (apache, bind), and the actual data archive.
06:23 Waylon ah.
06:21 eythian puppet makes automating server configs easier.
06:20 Waylon hmm? Puppet?
06:20 * eythian needs to develop some Puppet modules for Koha
06:20 * Waylon nods, "I have one of those. my 2 bare metal xen servers, have 1 live server and 1 non-public server, one will be used for dev,. the other for all updates.
06:18 eythian you have a test server you roll out to first.
06:18 Waylon how do you automate without the risk of breaking something?
06:17 eythian clearly you just need to automate things ;)
06:16 * Waylon is the sole admin of mandumah.com... and is feeling slightly bewildered by how much there is to do.
06:16 * Waylon nods. "And then you got the os security updates, vunerablility reports, optimization, drupal security updates... properly on top of, its a fulltime job?"
06:14 eythian yeah. The best way to deal with that really is just to keep on top of it all.
06:14 Waylon so yeah.. alot of work to upgrade.
06:12 Waylon yeah. gotta recode all this stuff into a module that i can patch in and out without too much trouble though. And teach the designer how to use koha's translation system, and css customization to move things around.
06:12 kf hi #koha
06:11 mib_41oce5 will have a got at it today
06:11 mib_41oce5 ok great thanks
06:11 eythian that's what we keep telling you ;)
06:11 Waylon prehistorically behind.
06:10 Waylon man, im way behind on mandumah.
06:10 mib_41oce5 oh 3.6
06:10 mib_41oce5 Thanks for the link
06:10 Waylon 3.6...
06:10 * Waylon nods. "For maximum support from this channel, yes.
06:10 eythian 3.6 is the current version that you want.
06:10 eythian http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.6_on_Debian_Squeeze <-- mib_41oce5, perhaps start here
06:10 mib_41oce5 yes, I understand
06:10 mib_41oce5 have to uninstall and install 3.4 from koha
06:10 Waylon at least i can't.
06:09 Waylon yeah... we can't help you with liblime.
06:09 mib_41oce5 i ended up installing from version 4.08 from liblime but it's not working
06:08 mib_41oce5 yes
06:08 Waylon so.. the first result that comes up is liblime koha?
06:08 mib_41oce5 but now when I researched more
06:08 Waylon how did that happen?
06:08 eythian sounds unpleasant
06:08 Waylon ooo.
06:08 mib_41oce5 and simply searched google for Koha and ended up installing liblime koha
06:08 Waylon Hmm? at least you haven't invested money into a liblime solution.
06:07 mib_41oce5 I installed debain in my Mac using Virtual Box
06:07 mib_41oce5 ok, damn, two days wasted
06:07 Waylon welcome! Yes, sadly, Koha and Liblime broke company some time ago... Liblime has a fork off of old code... and has extensively customised it.
06:06 eythian mib_41oce5: yep
06:06 mib_41oce5 one basic question: is Koha and LibLime koha different?
06:06 mib_41oce5 I am new to Koha
06:06 Waylon hello mib_41oce5 !
06:05 wahanui okay, eythian.
06:05 eythian no wahanui, Waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for Mandumah.com.
06:05 mib_41oce5 Hello
06:05 Waylon hrm.. damn.
06:05 wahanui ...but waylon is having some connection troubles....
06:04 Waylon wahanui, Waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for Mandumah.com.
06:03 wahanui i heard waylon was having some connection troubles.
06:03 Waylon waylon?
06:02 eythian heh good.
06:02 wahanui i already had it that way, eythian.
06:02 eythian wahanui: hipsters is http://www.harrisburgbicycleclub.org/images/stories/wheelclub1.jpg
06:02 eythian err
06:02 eythian Waylon: hipsters is http://www.harrisburgbicycleclub.org/images/stories/wheelclub1.jpg
06:01 Waylon omg..
06:01 eythian â€½
06:01 wahanui ptfs is Piss-Taking Flaming Swines!
06:01 Waylon ptfs?
06:01 wahanui liblime is no brandcuffs
06:01 Waylon liblime?
06:01 wahanui it has been said that koha is a free software ils see http://koha-community.org for more info
06:01 Waylon koha?
06:00 wahanui somebody said no was failing unit tests
06:00 Waylon no?
06:00 Waylon !commands
05:59 Waylon a bot.
05:59 wahanui a bot are longstrings
05:59 Waylon A bot?
05:59 eythian wahanui is always on the ball.
05:59 Waylon .... that was abit quick for a human.
05:58 wahanui hey, Waylon
05:58 Waylon hi
05:47 eythian hi
05:44 cait time to go - bbiab
05:44 cait morning AmitG
05:43 AmitG heya Robin, cait
05:22 eythian yeah, ta :)
05:22 cait well good luck :)
05:21 cait ah
05:17 eythian (for a new client we have who doesn't tend to use barcodes so much)
05:17 eythian the next step for this would be allowing searching for titles on the circ screen to issue/return things.
05:16 eythian however, a lot of the code around there is Old Code that treats barcode like a primary key, so I'm having to refactor a whole lot.
05:15 eythian i.e, you can do a return using an item number.
05:15 eythian I'm making the returns process be not dependent on barcodes.
05:15 eythian it's not late, it's still sunny outside.
05:15 cait eythian: what are you working on that late?
05:11 huginn` New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5473] 952 fields should be filled in by Acquisitions <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5473>
05:07 cait hi eythian :)
05:07 eythian hello cait
05:07 cait good morning #koha
03:20 bag hey there AmitG
03:20 AmitG heya bag, rangi
02:30 Waylon anyway, afk, back later
02:28 Waylon can't see the performance changes.
02:28 Waylon and my reindex cron job just started on the test server.. and i didn't load siege on a screen. damn.
02:26 Waylon23 hah. nah, i just added a random number.
02:26 jcamins_away 23? Wow, we missed 5-24!
02:26 Waylon23 router needed a complete reset.... not sure why.
02:22 jcamins_away (as an aside, I think you missed Waylon3)
02:21 jcamins_away Waylon4: what on earth are you doing?
02:21 Waylon4 damn nz net..
02:21 Waylon4 ...
02:20 jcamins_away Hmmm... I think Waylon is having some connection troubles.
02:19 Waylon2 ouch
02:16 Waylon yeah.
02:16 eythian there also have been speed improvements in newer Koha versions...just sayin' :)
02:15 Waylon looks like mysql might need optimizing.
02:15 eythian yeah
02:14 Waylon cryptic messages like error: 114
02:14 eythian I think this is due in no small part to me not really understanding how it works inside.
02:14 * Waylon nods.
02:14 eythian when it works, it works really quite well. When it breaks it gets mysterious.
02:12 jcamins_away Waylon: I don't know about "coded well," but it's pretty fast.
02:12 Waylon it may be archiac and mysterious, difficult to work with, but it was coded well?
02:11 jcamins_away ;)
02:11 jcamins_away Waylon: in fact, if it were Zebra, I'd be so shocked that I might fall over.
02:11 * Waylon nods.
02:11 jcamins_away Waylon: I would be shocked if it were Zebra.
02:11 Waylon mysqld is at the top of the top list..
02:02 eythian if not, you can't begin to tune it
02:02 eythian do you know that zebra is the issue?
01:58 Waylon maybe i need to tune zebra?
01:57 Waylon but, a search that results in a precise match redirect, with only basic kw search... took 11 seconds to redirect.
01:55 Waylon ah.. adding a branch limit on the zebra query, adds a second.
01:53 Waylon its only 15 concurrent users for the siege.. i don't get why the response time increases.
01:49 druthb well, that's not the issue--the times I've seen it being a problem, it had tens of thousands of entries.
01:48 Waylon 1035 sessions.. yeah....
01:47 Waylon eventually ill get it upgraded, and be developing with you guys.. until then... this job is mostly sysadmin and coding additions.
01:47 jcamins_away And with eythian that you should figure out a way to upgrade.
01:46 jcamins_away Waylon: I have no useful advice to offer, but I'd agree with druthb that your sessions table should be cleaned.
01:46 jcamins_away Better you than me!
01:46 Waylon yea
01:46 Waylon 3.0.0.pre2 i think it started out as.
01:45 jcamins_away Yikes! Pre-3.0?
01:43 druthb Waylon: ^^ I've found that cleaning up the clutter there helps.
01:42 druthb how big is count(*) from sessions?
01:20 Waylon MaxRequestsPerChild 0
01:20 Waylon MaxClients 150
01:20 Waylon MaxSpareServers 10
01:20 Waylon MinSpareServers 5
01:20 Waylon StartServers 5
01:20 Waylon okay.. my apache is prefork type.
01:06 Waylon not a first gen virtualbox.
01:06 Waylon xen vm that is.
01:06 Waylon this server runs on a virtual machine, how much memory should i allow for each apache child in calculations?
01:04 Waylon yet the siege time still increaes.
01:04 Waylon hmm.. slow queries are inserts into sessions, and a borrower_attribute increment due to login (tracking times logged in for that user, only done while logging in) both of them are query time 2. but once the first query is done by siege.. there isn't any more slow queries.
00:50 eythian (unless something else is, and your apache maxchilds is set low)
00:48 eythian Probably easier, but apache isn't adding 16 seconds of delay to your requests.
00:48 Waylon and getting nginx to replace apache, not going to be easy either?
00:47 eythian I'd recommend upgrading, but in the short term check out your database.
00:45 Waylon so... yeah.. backporting memcached patches... not going to happen.
00:44 Waylon yeah. hell.. i tried doing a git review on this install.. i couldn't find a version match. its a mismash of pre and manually applied patches that I can't figure out, and the arabic mods.
00:43 rangi thats 3.0 pre .. 3.0.0 was releases 10 aug 2008 ... so its even older than that so trying to backport to that will be a world of pain
00:42 eythian which helps figuring out where problems are.
00:42 eythian (or ms perhaps)
00:42 eythian it'll make mysql dump out anything that takes longer than /n/ seconds
00:42 Waylon right
00:42 eythian I think the option you should turn on is slow-query-log, or something similr
00:41 Waylon right
00:41 eythian My money is on it spending that time in the database.
00:41 Waylon Response time: 6.38 secs
00:41 eythian You could always backport the memcached etc. patches, but it'd be a fair bit of work.
00:41 Waylon Longest transaction: 17.45
00:40 eythian it'd be the easiest way, yes.
00:40 Waylon so, if i want speed, im going to have to upgrade koha?
00:40 eythian perhaps a missing index somewhere.
00:40 eythian *put
00:40 eythian Waylon: but a slow query watcher on your database, maybe you've got something that's taking too long there, or IO troubles.
00:40 druthb o/
00:39 eythian I don't think you'd get much gain from nginx (though you might.) It'd still be a CGI app though.
00:39 Waylon during a siege using 15 concurrent, im getting returns of up to 16 seconds... thats.. bad.
00:39 eythian 3.6 supports memcached fairly easily I think. I doubt 3.0 does.
00:38 Waylon ?
00:38 Waylon And what about nginx? how do I use that with koha
00:38 Waylon koha 3.0presomething. How easy is it going to be to speed things up slightly, using memcached?
00:37 Waylon hiya all!