IRC log for #koha, 2010-11-16

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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01:26 chris_n oooo... perl crashes on large marc imports on win32
01:26 chris_n win32--
01:28 cfouts left #koha
01:34 robin try win64, it's twice as big!
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01:48 chris_n interesting
01:48 chris_n the web import crashes, but works fine and fast
01:49 * chris_n seems to remember complaints in general about large imports and the web importer
01:50 cfouts chris_n: web servers are often configured to accept a limited amount of incoming data. could be that the input to larger than that threshold and the backgrounder functionality isn't handling that properly
01:52 robin could be an apache timeout/request too large or something along those lines
01:52 robin err, what cfouts said :)
01:52 chris_n that could be; it pages dramatically and then it appears that the kernel cuts off its resources and the perl instance crashes
01:53 cfouts oh. that sounds like a different problem if it's thrashing
01:53 robin You should find the kernel talking to you in dmesg/syslog if it's OOMing
01:53 robin oh wait, win32 :(
01:53 chris_n heh
01:54 chris_n the web importer pages in the high millions, while the cli script pages in the low thousands
01:58 * chris_n suspects it may have to do with spawing off of the child process
02:11 chris_n yup, win32 perl attempts to emulate fork() with some limitations/threading dangers
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02:26 Brooke :D
02:27 rhcl Brooke, why don't we see more of you around here? You add a little bit of, ah, "spice" to the channel.
02:28 Brooke he he
02:28 Brooke well, I have returned from fencing
02:28 Brooke so alas, more spice is in the future.
02:29 rhcl Like, fencing to keep the cattle in the pasture, or the sword fighting type?
02:29 Brooke swashbuckling yaarrr
02:29 Brooke brb apparently the ladies say I've blue no mah face.
02:30 Brooke back
02:36 rhcl is now known as rhcl_away
02:36 Brooke @quote
02:36 munin Brooke: Error: "quote" is not a valid command.
02:36 Brooke @quote random
02:36 munin Brooke: Quote #20: "<wizzyrea> you will see no wedgie-ing from me" (added by jdavidb at 03:50 PM, July 31, 2009)
02:37 Brooke @quote 256
02:37 munin Brooke: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "256" in it.  Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin.
02:37 Brooke list quote
02:42 Brooke well pfft, this is emptier than Church.
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02:47 chris_n well, here it is for posterity's sake:[…]s/heads/Win32-wip
02:48 * chris_n puts it on the shelf for another X months and heads to bed
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04:10 Brooke ahoy!
04:21 Brooke uh oh, adrenaline nearly gone, lactic acid not so much.
04:21 Brooke better stretch and sleep or Ima hurt like a wee prissy girl
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05:03 kmkale hi all
05:04 kmkale chris around?
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05:11 Amit heya kmkale
05:11 kmkale hi Amit
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05:31 kmkale hi cait
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05:32 cait hi kmkale :)
05:32 cait looking forward to fee receipt printing :)
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05:36 kmkale :) It should go through now with fredericd's blessings
05:37 cait I wrote that down on my 'missing' list a long time ago
05:37 cait glad to see that it's now in koha :)
05:37 cait or will be
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05:41 kmkale :)
06:07 pastebot "kmkale" at pasted "Problem while doing on a new branch git rebase origin/master" (22 lines) at
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06:09 kmkale any idea if its a problem on my side or womething wrong with that patch?
06:55 cait you have a merge conflict
06:56 cait you can see the file where the problem is with git status - search for <<< in the file
07:00 chris[…]resolving-a-merge
07:00 chris
07:01 chris its a hard life when you have to travel to places like that :)
07:03 kmkale cait  chris I had nothing to do with this. I am innocent ;)
07:03 kmkale :))
07:04 kmkale I was just trying to move on to some other work from the fee receipt one. so created a new branch and did a fet and rebase. Lo that paste was the result.
07:04 kmkale brb
07:04 chris how did you create your new branch?
07:05 kmkale git checkout -b vpmbarcodes origin
07:06 chris hmm if you did that, then a rebase should do nothing
07:07 kmkale didn't I say I was innocent?
07:07 chris there must be local changes on that branch
07:07 chris what i would do
07:08 chris is git fetch origin
07:08 kmkale on vpmbarcodes? nope. nothing touched yet.
07:08 chris git checkout -b new_branch_name origin/master
07:08 chris if you do the fetch first there is no need to rebase
07:09 chris because you are checking out a branch that is up to date
07:09 kmkale ok lets try that. Just for my understanding whats the diference between git fetch and git fetch origin?
07:10 chris git fetch origin is just the full way of saying it, but you may have more than one branch, if you git fetch it will fetch from the remote that branch is checking
07:10 chris s/checking/tracking/
07:10 chris for eg i have catalyst, kc, fbc, biblibre etc
07:10 chris so i always add the name, so that i make sure im fetching from the right remote
07:11 kmkale oohh. Thanks chris.
07:11 cait hi chris :) nice photo!
07:11 kmkale I am pretty sure that I did it from where I got the 4440 branch yesterday. So could that be it?
07:12 kmkale that I was tracking the 4440 branch?
07:12 cait showing kohacon photos today - looks like a lot of fun and not much work - everybody seems to be smiling most of the time :)
07:12 cait ok, time to go - bye :)
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07:17 chris sounds like you branched from 4440 yes, so that it is plausible
07:17 kmkale plausible. humm
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07:23 kmkale brb
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07:31 magnus ata marie, #koha
07:43 brendan hey magnus
07:44 magnus hi brendan! burning the midnight oil?
07:44 brendan heh - seems like I'm doing that a lot more lately
07:45 magnus a persons gotta do what a persons gotta do etc...
07:45 kmkale joined #koha
07:45 kmkale back.
07:45 kmkale Thanks fredericd
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07:53 chris kmkale: think we will declare soon? or bat for the draw?
07:53 chris i think now mccullum has his 200, we will declare at 300
07:54 kmkale chris : That will be fun
07:54 chris with about 38 overs
07:54 kmkale I dont think India will go for the target though
07:56 chris yes, but thats a psychological win for nz
07:56 chris we set you a target, and you didnt back yourselves to get it :)
07:56 chris cricket is mind games :)
07:57 chris i thought we would have lost both tests by now
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08:01 laurenthd hi
08:01 laurenthd is now known as hdl
08:06 ivanc joined #koha
08:06 ivanc hi #koha
08:07 wasabi heya ivan
08:12 kmkale NZ have great fielding which has greatly helped in this series IMHO
08:13 magnus hiya hdl, ivanc, wasabi, kmkale & chris!
08:13 chris hiya magnus
08:14 kmkale hi magnus
08:14 ivanc hiya magnus
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08:29 kmkale chris: why no declaration?
08:29 chris i think they came to same conclusion you did, india wouldnt go for it
08:30 chris so just batting practice now
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09:23 hdl chris: is already commited in our circ branch.
09:23 hdl And Clay is doing some work on that.
09:24 hdl so this is duplicated effort.
09:27 chris yes, its not the first time and it wont be the last, if people dont look at what others are doing it will happen
09:29 chris and there is nothing i can do about it either, except look at them both once they have both been through QA and test them and pick one implementation
09:32 hdl yes chris.
09:32 hdl But clay dev is one patch.
09:32 hdl And our has to pass QA.
09:32 chris yes
09:32 hdl And our has been done much before.
09:32 chris so does his
09:33 chris that doesnt mean anything
09:33 chris everyone has to pass qa
09:33 chris theres stuff in harley that has been done much before
09:33 chris it still has to pass qa too
09:35 chris do you want me to guarantee your work will go in, without even looking at?
09:35 * chris is unsure what you want from e
09:39 hdl I want our work to be considered. that's all.
09:39 chris of course it is
09:39 chris everyones is
09:41 chris meanwhile, did you see[…]/biblibre_reports and the feedback on it?
09:42 chris few little things to fix then that can be merged to master
09:43 chris http://lists.koha-community.or[…]ember/012870.html
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09:46 hdl chris: ok But this was the very little branch
09:47 chris wow
09:47 chris i cant win
09:47 chris do you want me to put them all in tomorrow? .. there is a lot to look at
09:49 chris none of which (apart from the reports branch) are signed off
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10:00 hdl chris ok. I got it.
10:06 wasabi[…]11/stuxnet-clues/
10:08 wasabi … thats the craziest malware story yet
10:16 magnus hm, nuclear plants running windows - not reassuring...
10:17 hdl indeed.
10:19 wasabi yes, that part is even crazier than the virus!
10:25 kmkale bbl
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10:48 magnus hiya irmaB
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11:05 irmaB Hi magnus
11:05 irmaB How are U?
11:06 magnus i'm fine irmaB, starting to normalize after the jetlag... and you?
11:06 irmaB recovering slowwwly from acute lower back pain :(
11:07 irmaB lifted a cabin bag into the overhead locker and regretted it 2 seconds later
11:07 irmaB too heavy!
11:07 magnus aouch
11:07 irmaB ackward space to twist
11:08 magnus that was probably not a fun flight, then...
11:08 irmaB had accupuncture and seems to have helped
11:09 irmaB a lot happening on the Koha planet at the moment
11:10 irmaB did you see Savitra Sirohi's Koha book
11:10 magnus yeah
11:11 magnus koha seems like a fast moving target for a printed book...
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11:12 irmaB back again...
11:13 kf joined #koha
11:14 kf hi #koha
11:14 magnus hiya kf
11:14 kf god morgen magnus
11:14 kf (correct?)
11:15 magnus kf: yep
11:17 kf cool :)
11:32 irmaB Hi kf ... Gehts gut?
11:34 kf ja Irma danke - und dir?
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11:38 irmaB es geht mir langsam besser
11:41 irmaB Rückenschmerzen  ..sehr langweilig und unangenehm
11:41 kf oh, das tut mir leid - ich hoffe es geht dir bald besser
11:42 irmaB but re Koha work ..slowly upgrading our clients to 3.2 and planning training
11:42 irmaB so that is fun :-)
11:42 irmaB danke kf
11:43 irmaB kf what are you working on?
11:43 kf koha presentation in berlin on friday - 45 minutes
11:43 kf longest so far - need more slides!
11:44 irmaB great
11:44 irmaB slides saying what?
11:44 irmaB perhaps I have some
11:45 irmaB 45 minutes is actually not that long
11:47 irmaB depending on the size of the audiance
11:47 kf hm a general talk about koha
11:47 kf and I have some cataloging questions from the attending libraries to prepare for
11:48 irmaB you can always show various Koha OPACS and point out the flexibility
11:49 kf yes, I have nice slides about the opac featues
11:49 kf but will show intranet too
11:50 irmaB re cataloguing ... maybe show them
11:50 irmaB and then the MARC frameworks in Koha etc.
11:51 irmaB kf You will be fine... in fact.. I think you will be great!!
11:53 irmaB Time to say goodnight :) Goodluck kf
11:53 magnus so do i - on a mission to bring the joy of koha to germany... ;-)
11:53 magnus good night irmaB - see ya!
11:54 irmaB see ya Magnus and goodluck for your mission too!
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12:02 magnus is now known as magnus_a
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12:36 gmcharlt good morning
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12:56 kf hi gmcharlt
12:56 gmcharlt hi kf
12:56 gmcharlt when's your presentation?
12:57 kf ah on friday
12:58 kf it's a small group looking at various systems
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13:03 druthb howdy, #koha.
13:05 jwagner Morning.
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13:17 kmkale good evening
13:17 kmkale hi owen
13:17 owen Hi
13:28 kf hi owen, druthb and jwagner
13:34 jwagner Guten tag, kf
13:37 cfouts joined #koha
13:37 jwagner cfouts, what are you doing up so early?
13:37 * druthb boggles.
13:37 cfouts can't sleep... clowns will eat me.
13:38 * druthb bursts into giggles.
13:38 * jwagner wonders what cfouts has been eating/drinking/smoking lately....
13:44 kmkale hi druthb kf jwagner
13:44 druthb hi, kmkale. :)
13:45 kf cfouts: I am scared of clowns too
13:45 * kf hands cfouts some hot chocolate
13:45 jwagner hi kmkale
13:45 cfouts ever since "Poltergeist"...
13:48 * jwagner hands cfouts a teddy bear
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14:08 laurenthd is now known as hdl
14:10 jwagner Bonjour hdl
14:11 hdl hi jwagner
14:12 kf hi hdl
14:12 kf new nick?
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14:22 magnus_a is now known as magnus
14:23 hdl kf: it is mibbit.
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14:55 chris_n kf: about?
14:56 kf chris_n: wanted to write the same to you right now
14:56 kf chris_n: that's the possibility I haven't tested... *sighs*
14:56 chris_n can you do some testing on my latest remarks on bug 5379?
14:56 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5379 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, cnighswonger, ASSIGNED, fails with db insert/update errors
14:57 chris_n I think the problem is the poorly worded help text
14:57 chris_n but want to be sure what I replace it with does, indeed, work :-)
14:58 kf I can do tomorrow, is that ok?
14:58 kf and who invents somthing like that? it looks a bit scary
14:58 kf a better worded help is really needed
15:02 kf chris_n: what happens if you want to use single quotes? does that work too?
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15:04 chris_n the RFC does speak to single quotes
15:04 kf forgot my github passwort - again :(
15:05 kf chris_n: which RFC are we talking about?
15:06 chris_n if you do '"foo","bar","foobar"' things break
15:06 chris_n RFC-4180
15:06 kf do you have a link?
15:07 chris_n
15:08 chris_n so I think we must support the standard and clarify the help to use examples which follow
15:09 chris_n kf: section 2 number 7 of the above link deals with double quotes
15:09 kf standard++
15:09 kf ok, I support you in supporting the standard ;)
15:12 * chris_n feels better already :)
15:13 kf chris_n: but we need a good example on the page!
15:14 chris_n it appears that single quotes fail to cause the embedded commas to be properly escaped
15:14 chris_n so I think they are best left unused in this context
15:15 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
15:15 chris_n kf: probably having the sample csv really be a sample (ie. having a row or two of valid data) would help as well
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15:15 kf i think the sample csv is build with a script - we have no sample patron attributes
15:16 * chris_n will submit a follow-up patch later
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15:17 chris_n wizzyrea: is a wizzy_gon a new type of n-gon?
15:18 owen wizzyrea: Got your msg about the lost/damaged status but can't reproduce it
15:18 wizzyrea it has eleventy-billion sides
15:18 wizzyrea hmm
15:19 wizzyrea odd. it's an upgrade db. do you have to have an empty authorized value?
15:19 wizzyrea like, a value with no value?
15:19 * wizzyrea tries that
15:19 owen I wouldn't think so
15:19 owen Oh, spoke too soon
15:20 owen Damaged, authorized value 0, description empty
15:20 tcohen Has anyone seen this error:[…]=santa+mar%C3%ADa
15:21 tcohen look for "Colección"
15:21 wizzyrea AHA
15:21 wizzyrea this is what I had to do:
15:22 owen You had to create a completely blank entry?
15:22 wizzyrea to have it show blanks instead of the 1st one in the list, yea
15:23 wizzyrea perhaps I have done it wrong
15:23 owen tcohen: I've heard of that bug before tcohen, but I've not been able to reproduce it
15:24 owen tcohen: Bug 5147
15:24 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5147 minor, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, If a title has double quotes, item details not displayed correctly
15:25 wizzyrea owen: in yours it shows the currently set value in those drop downs?
15:25 owen Sorry tcohen that isn't right is it?
15:25 owen wizzyrea: Yes
15:25 wizzyrea hmm, in mine it doesn't
15:25 wizzyrea even if you set it, it defaults to the first in the list
15:26 wizzyrea must be something local, thanks for checking
15:27 tcohen oewn: i'm checking the marc for that biblio and cannot find double quotes
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15:30 tcohen s/oewn/owen/
15:30 owen tcohen: Looks like it might be the double quotes in the publisher name
15:32 tcohen owen, is this a bug or marc21 prohibits double quotes there?
15:33 owen A bug. I'm trying to reproduce it
15:38 kf *sighs*
15:38 kf why can't I push to my public repo?
15:38 kf :(
15:38 owen *sighs*
15:38 owen why can't I reproduce tcohen's bug?
15:38 owen :(
15:39 kf and it's not even monday!
15:41 kf chris_n: about the state address - we don't have that, but added some fields in the past - I think i could do it if you want it
15:41 kf state in address fields..
15:42 owen kf: Then can you write a script which will split the state info out of our city field and automatically populate the new field? :)
15:42 kf nope
15:43 kf owen: sorry... but I think that will vary for a lot of people
15:44 kf not sure I can do it... hm. but it should only be a sql command right?
15:45 * chris_n thinks it might be possible with a sql statement or two
15:45 owen tcohen: I'd be curious if removing the quotes from the publisher name fixed the problem
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15:46 gmcharlt splitting on a comma would handle it for US addresses (not counting inconsistently entered data, of course)
15:46 chris_n kf: that would be a nice addition; lots of other software consumes addresses in this format
15:46 owen Although even if I copy that publisher data into one of my records I can't reproduce the problem
15:47 owen Ah wait, now I can
15:47 kf gmcharlt: yeah, I think that's why I don't want to update it automatically - I fear people are not consistent
15:48 kf don't want to mess with their data
15:49 gmcharlt kf: the upgrade could be made optional, then, by having it handled by a separate script that the library could choose to run or not
15:49 kf hm ok
15:50 kf I am volunteering because I did something similar before - so I think I can handle it
15:50 kf but actually we (Germany) doesn't really need it
15:50 kf we don't have the state in the address
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15:53 owen Ooh, sneaky
15:54 owen You can have double quotes in your publisher name *only if* you also have something in 260c
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15:56 owen It's the COinS / OpenURL data messing up the markup
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15:58 jwagner schsuter is having an identity crisis?
15:58 schsuter yes and typing issues.
15:58 owen Do not anger bizzaro-schsuter
15:58 * jwagner knows that feeling....
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16:00 kf now new with a capital S :)
16:01 * kf still can't push to her repo
16:01 owen Zotero doesn't like those quotes in the publisher name either
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16:14 owen Bug 5412
16:14 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5412 normal, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, Double quotes in publisher name, no date cause search results links to break
16:18 * kf CAN push to her repo now :)
16:19 wizzyrea_ yay!
16:23 kf magnus++
16:23 magnus yay!
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16:41 tcohen owen, i'll follow this bug, is there a coins specification?
16:42 owen I assume so, but I don't know where offhand
16:42 gmcharlt tcohen:
16:52 kf ok, time to go - bbl! :)
16:52 kf left #koha
16:52 jcamins_a tcohen++ # I didn't read the scrollback, but maybe he's going to fix the COiNS support?
16:52 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
16:52 owen See Bug 5412 jcamins
16:53 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5412 normal, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, Double quotes in publisher name, no date cause search results links to break
16:53 owen What else is broken about COiNS?
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16:54 jcamins There's a laconic note "MARC21 needs some improve."
16:55 gmcharlt that's helpful
16:55 jcamins I think they're referring specifically to the fact that LDR and 008 are completely ignored, and the output is always described as a "book."
16:56 jcamins Also, I'm pretty sure the coins coding is non-standard compliant.
16:57 jcamins Specifically, the title attribute.
16:57 jcamins Unfortunately, the standard made no sense at all, and Zotero doesn't mind, so I gave up.
16:58 owen What's wrong with the title attribute?
16:58 jcamins (I noticed the problem when using the resulting coins with a link resolver)
16:58 jcamins I think it's the wrong one.
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16:58 jcamins coins has a bunch.
16:59 jcamins (which seems to me like a design flaw, but what do I know?
17:01 jcamins The links may work with SFX- I tested with Umlaut, and it was a while ago.
17:01 rhcl @seen sekjal
17:01 munin rhcl: sekjal was last seen in #koha 22 hours, 6 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: * sekjal makes a mental connection: so that's where that error originates from!
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17:08 chris_n bbiab
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17:25 tcohen jcamins: koha's coins support flaws are documented in a bug?
17:26 tcohen maybe we can start a rewrite or bugfix
17:28 jcamins tcohen: I have demo patches attached to bug 4366, but they're not really commitable.
17:28 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4366 normal, P5, ---, camins, ASSIGNED, COinS support for MARC21
17:29 jcamins Everything's hard-coded. :(
17:30 jcamins I'd like to get back to that, but who knows when I'll have time.
17:30 jcamins Especially since I really didn't understand the coins specification.
17:31 tcohen jcamins: i'll give it a try and report back
17:31 tcohen thanks for the data
17:36 magnus is now known as magnus_a
17:36 thd-away is now known as thd
17:38 thd tcohen: Even the bugs* for OpenURL COinS support are an incomplete report.
17:39 jcamins thd: yeah, as I said, I gave up on understanding the standard at some point.
17:40 thd jcamins: Was it the OpenURL standard which gave you trouble or the OpenURL COinS standard for embedding OpenURL in web pages?
17:41 jcamins thd: the OpenURL 1.0 Context Object.
17:42 cait joined #koha
17:42 cait jo
17:42 cait hi #koha
17:43 thd jcamins: Do you mean the nature of general context objects as distinct from specific bibliographic references?
17:44 jcamins thd: no, I specifically had trouble figuring out what data went where.
17:45 gmcharlt jcamins: jrochkind on #code4lib might be a good person to talk to about OpenURL's data model
17:45 thd jcamins: Do you mean what data should goes into particular OpenURL attributes?
17:46 thd jcamins: I could answer all your questions as I worked on OpenURL COinS and have some unpublished work on OpenURL.
17:46 Brooke joined #koha
17:47 thd jcamins: I also investigated the Koha attempt at an implementation and had been preparing to use it as an example of a deficiency in the Koha development process.
17:48 thd jcamins: I did not go forward with my example because adversarial relations between LibLime and PTFS came to dominate all my attention.
17:50 cait hi brooke
17:50 Brooke howdy
17:51 thd jcamins: Bug #3092 was my start at what is wrong with Koha's OpenURL COinS effort.
17:51 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3092 normal, P1, ---, frederic, NEW, Data values storage and use 100 bug meta-bug
17:52 jcamins thd: sorry for the pause, I was on the phone.
17:53 thd jcamins: Values had to first be appropriately normalised for inclusion in OpenURL.
17:53 jcamins Yes, my initial problem was that I'm not entirely sure there's a clear mapping of MARC field-COinS field
17:54 rhcl Brooke is back......
17:54 wizzyrea_ she's nice
17:54 wizzyrea_ :D
17:54 * wizzyrea_ waves to Brooke
17:54 jcamins thd: please ignore my random tenses.
17:54 jcamins I'm apparently a bit distracted.
17:54 * Brooke blushes
17:55 thd jcamins: Exactly, that is what bug #3092 is all about, whether the data is stored in MARC or in Koha SQL columns, the data is not normalised correctly for any specific purpose.
17:55 rhcl Yesterday is was us that was blushing
17:55 gmcharlt thd: since there's no one true normalization for all specific purposes, normalization needs to happen at the edges and interfaces
17:56 gmcharlt I grant that it could be done a lot more systematically
17:57 thd gmcharlt: In bug  #3092 I suggest storing data in various forms normalised for various purposes.
17:57 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3092 normal, P1, ---, frederic, NEW, Data values storage and use 100 bug meta-bug
17:58 thd gmcharlt: I suggest that the degree of normalisation needed for so many different purposes would make too much of a real time demand upon the CPU if all needed normalisation would be done for every possible feature.
17:58 * jcamins wanders off to eat lunch, muttering something about OpenURL binding descriptions
17:59 gmcharlt thd: the normalization wouldn't have to be done all at once for all possibly purposes
18:00 thd gmcharlt: That depends on the number of simultaneous users.  Given enough simultaneous users everything would be requested at once.
18:00 gmcharlt thd: I don't think that's a realistic view of system load
18:00 gmcharlt obviously better caching might be called for
18:01 thd gmcharlt: I want Koha to be able to work on a world OPAC scale.
18:02 thd A world OPAC could make good use of OpenURL.
18:04 thd Open Library is partly intended as a world OPAC in a very modest way.
18:04 * Brooke drools at the thought of Open Library
18:06 thd Brooke: Open Library is a real project of the Internet Archive but which is much less inspiring on close examination of the implementation.
18:06 wizzyrea_ maybe we should be encouraging instead of trying to replace them.
18:06 Brooke mmm. think they are not quite done laying solid foundations.
18:07 thd wizzyrea: I have been and am encouraging them.
18:07 Brooke I'd expect them to offer more meaningful services in future than OCLC if things shake out correctly
18:07 wizzyrea_ ^^ what she said
18:09 rhcl left #koha
18:09 thd Brooke: They are not aimed at competing with OCLC except for interlibrary loan facilitation of electronic copies perhaps.
18:09 Brooke change your footing from an open source advocate to an OCLC wonk and give me the same answer.
18:10 thd Brooke: Ok, you are correct.  OCLC sees any aggregation of bibliographic records, however poor the data model, as a threat to their monopoly.
18:11 jcamins To be fair, OCLC has a point.
18:11 * Brooke is a pessimist after many years of optimism.
18:12 thd jcamins: The treat which OCLC has to fear from Open Library is a threat from raw record redistribution.
18:13 thd jcamins:  You can download all the originating source records used to create Open Library records from the Internet Archive.
18:14 druthb joined #koha
18:14 Brooke ahoy druthb
18:14 druthb hi.
18:16 thd jcamins:  Thankfully, OCLCs members compelled them to come up with a half reasonable record reuse policy after their previous attempt.
18:19 gmcharlt thd: I think that's an optimistic reading of what happened
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18:22 thd gmcharlt: I do prefer to be optimistic.
18:23 thd gmcharlt: I have never met anyone from OCLC whom I did not like on a personal basis when I met the person with only one exception.
18:24 wizzyrea_ left #koha
18:24 * owen has learned that liking someone on a personal basis is unrelated to their company's behavior
18:25 jcamins thd: I have met personally the former CEO of a company which is generally reviled by everyone, including myself. I liked him just fine, but I still hope the company he helped build collapses in on itself.
18:25 Brooke Tayloristic company behaviour is often unrelated to individual behaviour for obvious reasons.
18:27 tcohen left #koha
18:27 thd Brooke: I think that the scary people at OCLC mostly work in the legal department, although, I have a good rapport with lawyers in general.  I have never met any OCLC lawyers.
18:28 * jcamins thinks longingly about making a comment to do with daylight and thd not looking at the ceiling when he was given a tour...
18:29 wizzyrea_ joined #koha
18:29 thd jcamins: I have never been to Ohio.  I only met people from OCLC at conferences, never in their lair.
18:29 Brooke lol @ lair.
18:30 jcamins Ah, that explains it. :)
18:34 owen Must be something about Ohio
18:34 * wizzyrea_ remembers that owen had a plan to take over the world
18:34 * owen wonders where he left that
18:35 * Brooke chastises owen again for not collaborating with Rosalie and JoAnn on the same.
18:36 Brooke by missing conference, you missed poor Lee seated between those two.
18:36 thd jcamins: I have even met Karen Calhoon, and spoken with her extensively.  I was prepared to regard her as champion of everything wrong but she came across as misguided but willing to be accommodating.
18:37 rhcl joined #koha
18:39 thd Whatever, the problems with OCLC, the money which they obtain from users pays for a great research department.  Microsoft also does great research with their loot.
18:41 * Brooke grins impishly.
18:41 * jcamins had never considered the possibility that Brooke's grins were not impish
18:41 * Brooke cackles.
18:42 Brooke just remember that you've 2 Kuia protecting ye. It'll be fine.
18:42 thd OCLC research has some real heros for the future of library science.  We need to be alert so that OCLC does not control that future.
18:44 Brooke bah
18:45 Brooke control as it relates to the arrow of time would seem to be less centralised, not more.
18:45 thd jcamins: On the subject of OpenURL Koha is missing a required attribute, has strings such as p. for pages included in numberic attributes, etc.
18:46 thd Brooke: I hope that times' arrow and progress have a general alignment but that is not a necessary condition of the world.
18:46 Brooke didn't say progres.s
18:47 thd I know that you did not.
18:47 Brooke just clarifying that so I needn't disagree with meself.
18:48 thd Brooke: I substituted 'progress' for your use of 'less centralised'.  I think of decentralisation as good progress.
18:50 ebegin joined #koha
18:51 Brooke back to the salt mines.
18:51 Brooke left #koha
18:56 mib_7zr4h left #koha
19:00 wizzyrea_ left #koha
19:01 chris morning
19:01 druthb hi, chris.  :)
19:02 thd jcamins: s/attributes/keys/ for a closer match to OpenURL terminology above.
19:02 francharb joined #koha
19:02 francharb left #koha
19:04 thd jcamins: Some of the OpenURL standards documents have some minor terminological inconsistencies which does not make them easier to read :)
19:08 sfortin joined #koha
19:12 chris is now known as chrisc
19:12 chrisc is now known as chris
19:12 Schuster left #koha
19:17 wizzyrea how would I go about finding the patch for this bug?
19:17 wizzyrea[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3520
19:17 munin Bug 3520: blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, crash when adding or editing item record
19:18 chris do a google
19:18 wizzyrea update to 3.0.4 I guess
19:18 chris koha bug 3250
19:18 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3250 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, Overdues report shows unique ID instead of location name
19:18 chris third link should be the patch
19:18 chris and again on the 6th :)
19:18 chris http://lists.koha-community.or[…]ugust/009833.html
19:18 chris google rules
19:19 wizzyrea ok that last one is helpful. :)
19:19 wizzyrea I did teh googlez… but I guess I didn't look for the right thing
19:19 gmcharlt wizzyrea: alternatively
19:19 wizzyrea :( sickie google fu fail.
19:20 gmcharlt git log and look for the patch
19:20 gmcharlt then git show 7f7dfa0a1
19:20 wizzyrea aha
19:20 wizzyrea that is also helpful, thanks
19:29 richard joined #koha
19:41 wizzyrea woot the patch fixed it
19:41 * wizzyrea does a dance
19:41 gmcharlt wizzyrea: old version?
19:43 chris_n is anyone using SMS for notices?
19:45 chris not me
19:46 owen Is there a special name for Perl's "@_" variable?
19:46 hdl joined #koha
19:47 wizzyrea yep, very
19:47 wizzyrea and almost retired anyway
19:47 chris hdl:[…]ibre_acquisitions one done
19:48 chris_n g'evening hdl
19:48 chris_n g'morning chris
19:48 laurenthd joined #koha
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19:50 wizzyrea does the functionality exist in koha to alert an administrator about "orphaned" reserves? An example of this would be a bib where the last item available for reserve is marked missing, lost, or damaged, and the people on the list won't get their holds filled
19:51 indradg joined #koha
19:54 wizzyrea never mind, I consulted the wiki and found a report that's pretty close to that
19:54 hdl good evening all
19:54 hdl chris: Don't work on authorities now.
19:54 hdl I will push one patch on that right away
19:55 jcamins They're evil and will shorten your lifespan!
19:55 chris cool
19:55 chris_n ^^what he said
19:55 chris_n well, what jcamins said
19:55 chris im doing the opac now
19:56 hdl ok thanks.
19:57 hdl chris where can I find the reason why 3.0.x is not sunny ?
19:58 hdl (on hudson)
19:58 chris i noticed that add limits to search history pulls in a whole pile of database changes, not just the limiting to search history one, so fixing that as i go
19:58 chris ahh here
19:59 chris[…]lastBuild/console
20:02 mib_zmggw joined #koha
20:06 chris[…]_qa/biblibre_opac
20:07 chris done, and its now only doing the 2 database updates it needs to
20:07 mib_zmggw left #koha
20:07 chris so should be easier to test and more likely to be able to be merged
20:08 hdl chris+++++
20:08 hdl chris++
20:08 owen chris does the Koha/kete integration use AJAX to display the kete results sidebar?
20:08 chris yes
20:09 chris pulls them into a div
20:09 owen But the div is coded into the template eh?
20:09 chris yup
20:10 owen Did you experiment with adding the div via js as well?
20:10 chris nope, i didnt, but no reason why you couldnt do that
20:11 chris i just found it easier to have a place to pop it in
20:11 owen I'm asking because Stephen and I are talking about ways to integrate results from the Ohio Web Library into Koha search results
20:11 chris ahh
20:11 chris can you get search results as an rss feed?
20:11 hdl chris : Can't locate in @INC
20:11 chris if so, the code for kete will just work
20:12 hdl (in the console.)
20:12 chris if you change the base url
20:12 chris hdl: that would do it
20:12 owen Oh, interesting
20:12 hdl Is there a problem with the test script ?
20:13 chris owen: i started changing it it, to and changing the syspref so you could just plug in anything
20:13 chris takes your rss, and makes it into JSON
20:13 chris then the js does stuff with it
20:14 chris calling a local script which then fetches the data, gets round all the anti XSS script measures most browsers have now
20:14 chris hdl: yes, could well be, ill try to have a look today
20:14 chris its probably an ENV variable missing
20:14 chris ill have a quick look now
20:14 hdl thanks chris.
20:16 hdl we decided to use a hudson bot too.
20:16 hdl We shall implement that soon.
20:16 owen SMFPL is doing a different kind of Ohio Web Library integration, wherein OWL scrapes the Koha search results screen and integrates the results into its own search results:[…]arch&search=maori
20:16 hdl We will also make some use case for and some tests.
20:16 magnus_a left #koha
20:17 hdl I saw there were very little in the test suite.
20:17 * owen finds the output of that search much more confusing than what he sees on HLT's site
20:17 chris hdl: excellent :)
20:18 hdl We will ask for contribution when we have the meeting around solr
20:18 hdl We are trying to build some from our tests and experience
20:18 hdl We also Worked out a Z3950::SimpleServer...
20:18 chris hdl: i cant fidn that file?
20:18 hdl (to be built upon solr)
20:19 chris Auth.t has use override_context_prefs;
20:19 chris but i cant find that file?
20:19 hdl shoot.
20:19 chris t/db_dependent/Auth.t
20:21 hdl maybe some backport from master to 3.0
20:21 chris yeah, sounds likely
20:21 hdl funny it just appeared now.
20:22 chris we might not have been running the db_dependent tests before
20:25 * chris_n gives up on SMS and just uses email2txt
20:26 hdl chris: what about running tests on all the branches awaiting_qa ?
20:27 hdl would maybe provide some basic tests for qa at least.
20:28 chris i run the sweet before i push the branch
20:28 chris suite too
20:28 chris :)
20:28 hdl I understood
20:28 hdl nice.
20:28 chris but yep, wouldnt hurt
20:28 chris bugs is a fairly smallish box though
20:28 gmcharlt hdl: not a bad idea to have it done automatically, but I think would require more server horsepower
20:28 chris i might have to pay linode for more disk if i run more
20:28 gmcharlt that would be a case where some distribution would help
20:28 chris what gmcharlt said :)
20:29 hdl we may try and mutualise some diskspace on that.
20:29 hdl ... I never understood why blib was so important.
20:30 hdl (It takes so much space....)
20:31 hdl as soon as our hudson is up, i'll send a message.
20:31 gmcharlt hdl: blib is mostly an artifact of how the installer was implemented as an application of EU::MM, but isn't valuable per se
20:32 chris hdl: excellent
20:32 hdl sure... it just takes space and time. ;)
20:33 hdl I have to get on an unfriendly VPN... And then go to bed..
20:33 hdl See you folks.
20:33 chris i really like linode
20:33 chris if you ever are looking for a new provider
20:37 laurenthd left #koha
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20:42 tomascohe is now known as tcohen
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20:44 tcohen joined #koha
20:45 hdl anyone aware of a good tcp2com FOSS project ?
20:46 hdl I have been using com0com... But command line... and not much windows user friendly
20:57 hdl found 2 other for record :
20:58 hdl
20:59 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
20:59 jwagner left #koha
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21:04 hdl Good night.
21:04 chris night hdl
21:11 laurenthd left #koha
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21:18 darling joined #koha
21:22 chris wb darling  :)
21:22 trea o/
21:22 wizzyrea yay darling!
21:23 darling howdy howdy howdy
21:24 darling did I miss anything?
21:27 chris hmm
21:27 chris <-- that
21:27 wizzyrea there was the epic RFC discussion.
21:27 wizzyrea quite a bit of talk about solr
21:29 chris someone suggested rewriting all of koha in java
21:29 chris (happens usually once a year)
21:29 wizzyrea oh yea, that was a good one
21:30 rhcl I did not--I wanted Ada!
21:31 gmcharlt Forth!
21:31 cfouts ML
21:31 rhcl Lisp is better than Forth
21:32 rhcl APL is pretty good too.
21:32 rhcl APL1
21:32 gmcharlt ((((really?)))
21:32 rhcl PL1 (I'll get it right this time)
21:33 wizzyrea alright, anybody have a moment for a probably elementary report question?
21:33 chris they are all crap compared to awesomechrisc+091LPxl
21:33 chris i just rewrote the whole world in it
21:33 chris right now!
21:33 trea sweet
21:34 wizzyrea I'm trying to get a report that shows the persons who hold reserves on bibs that only have items that are marked lost, withdrawn, or damaged (lol chris)
21:34 chris with more ponies
21:34 Brooke joined #koha
21:35 wizzyrea (abandoned holds)
21:36 wizzyrea what I have shows the person who has an abandoned reserve item checked out, I want to know who has the reserve
21:37 chris who placed the reserve?
21:38 chris can you paste what you have?
21:38 wizzyrea yep, so you can contact them to say "sorry, this item isn't available anymore"
21:38 wizzyrea yep
21:39 pastebot "wizzyrea" at pasted "orphaned hold report" (12 lines) at
21:40 cait :)
21:43 chris you dont care if its out or not? just who placed it?
21:43 wizzyrea right
21:44 chris k
21:44 chris 2 secs
21:45 tcohen 1 question: do you think it'd be awful to generate a $record->htmlized_subfield method for biblios?
21:46 chris itd be awful if i had to do it
21:46 tcohen such that " is substituted by &quot; and ' by &#39;
21:47 chris hmm, i think its better to have the template do it
21:47 chris with escape="HTML"
21:47 tcohen to get coins to work sth like that needs to be done
21:47 chris for html::template
21:47 chris and | h
21:47 tcohen yes
21:47 chris for template::toolkit
21:48 tcohen the thing is that the problem is in
21:48 tcohen specifically in GetCOinSBiblio
21:48 tcohen when we "construct" the coins span
21:49 pastebot "chris" at pasted "SELECT borrowers.cardnumber, b" (11 lines) at
21:49 chris that *might* work
21:49 tcohen we cannot be sure the marc fields don't have single or double quotes
21:49 wizzyrea *trying&*
21:50 wizzyrea (plz don't be like my mother and say "yes, you are")
21:50 chris right, have you looked at C4::Scrubber
21:50 * wizzyrea sobs
21:50 chris which uses HTML::Scrubber
21:50 chris using that might be what you want to do
21:51 wizzyrea oooh
21:51 * wizzyrea looks at what you did thar
21:52 wizzyrea MEH! I tried that (I thought) and it didn't work. At the very least I was on the right path several times.
21:52 Brooke you just had issues ;)
21:53 wizzyrea ba dum bum
21:53 tcohen wizzyrea: what r u talking abouT
21:53 Brooke SQL script to enable phoning a Patron and telling em how hosed they are for procrastination
21:54 robin Brooke: next step is an SQL script that'll go around to their house with a few heavies and discourage them from being late again.
21:55 Brooke >:)
21:55 Brooke never did by my Library jacket...[…]rwear/LibraryRaid
21:56 robin Brooke: have you ever watched "Castle"?
21:56 Brooke don't believe so
21:56 tcohen chris: it looks like scrubber sanitizes tags and its attributes
21:56 * Brooke lives under a rock with only rats for company.
21:58 tcohen and i'm not sure it can resolve our coins issue
21:59 tcohen damn, yakuake core dumped
21:59 tcohen lost my ssh session
21:59 tcohen damn1
21:59 robin Brooke: it's about a crime writer who follows police around to get ideas. Anyway, at one point he gets a bulletproof vest made that says "WRITER"
21:59 wizzyrea tcohen: i am talking about a script that shows who has holds on items where their hold will never be filled because the item is lost, damaged, or withdrawn
21:59 wizzyrea er
21:59 wizzyrea a report
22:03 chris you should make it a script
22:06 wizzyrea to what, run on a cron?
22:06 chris yeah
22:06 wizzyrea capital idea
22:09 Brooke that's why he gets the big bucks
22:09 wizzyrea true dat
22:09 chris i think you misunderstand how the economy works
22:09 chris its the people with the retarded ideas that get the big bucks
22:09 wizzyrea revision: this is why chris has the most social capital of any of us ;)
22:10 cait chris: ture
22:10 cait true
22:12 eric_b joined #koha
22:12 * Brooke waves to eric
22:13 cait left #koha
22:13 robin chris: I think we should be powering all this with the use of goats. Can I get the big bucks now?
22:13 chris heh
22:14 * Brooke resents being called a goat.
22:14 ebegin left #koha
22:14 robin you started it! you just called yourself one!
22:14 Brooke look, just because I have hooves, a tail, and some horns...
22:15 wizzyrea that seems a bit synonymous with the common description of a demon as well
22:15 robin wizzyrea: no, the cron job is better than the daemon at the moment :)
22:15 darling goats!
22:16 wizzyrea robin: …lol
22:16 * wizzyrea remembers that "bonk" means something totally different here, refrains from using it
22:16 robin haha
22:26 wizzyrea ah I just love libre office. The fact that you can paste a delimited clipboard makes me so. very. happy.
22:31 ronald joined #koha
22:32 Brooke hi
22:34 sekjal joined #koha
22:34 sekjal hi everyone!
22:35 Brooke howdy
22:35 sekjal just showing the awesomeness of the Koha community and our chat
22:35 sekjal wehoo
22:35 wizzyrea hey sekjal :)
22:35 wizzyrea so that report to show who has abandoned holds is pretty great
22:35 sekjal time to go
22:36 wizzyrea it even catches item level holds that are on lost items
22:36 chris yay
22:36 wizzyrea superawesome
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23:46 owen joined #koha
23:48 owen Hey, I was just trying to check out the biblibre_opac qa branch and I'm having trouble with the updatedatabase
23:48 owen "We are upgrading from Koha to 3.03.00.XXX
23:49 gmcharlt owen: since the database version can't be set precisely for a QA branch, you'll have to adjust and when you test
23:49 gmcharlt making a backup of your test database beforehand would be a good idea, too
23:49 owen Okay, I didn't know that
23:50 gmcharlt first time, really, that we've been dealing with a large number of topic branches each of which can have database updates on them
23:51 owen Is the version number I'm upgrading to arbitrary?
23:59 * owen increments the last recorded version number in

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