IRC log for #koha, 2009-05-27

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
18:03 gmcharlt pianohacker: it lives again
18:03 pianohacker Cool, thanks
18:04 tajoli Thank, I see the log now
18:11 wizzyrea ryan: true, though I just got it all figured out lol :)
18:12 wizzyrea pianohacker: epic thanks
18:15 pianohacker No problem, I've had my battles with jquery :)
18:16 wizzyrea a cookbook type page for this kind of stuff might be helpful on the wiki
18:16 wizzyrea maybe I'll start one
18:21 chris morning
18:21 pianohacker Good morning
18:25 chris you wanted to know about column.def?
18:27 pianohacker I was mainly going to ask if the Capitalized Column Names were an intentional convention, or an accidental one
18:30 chris accidental, its only used by the guided reports, there really is no convention :) it was just a way to present the columns as nicer text than biblioitems.lccn etc
18:30 pianohacker Yup
18:30 chris and make them translatable
18:30 pianohacker Were some of the columns in in from dev_week? Don't recognize them from 2.2 or 3.1
18:30 ebegin ls
18:30 pianohacker * in there in
18:31 chris yep
18:43 Brendan Good afternoon koha
18:45 pianohacker wizzyrea: That was a double-take moment; for a second, I thought nekls only had one copy of twilight
18:49 chris heh
19:04 chris why have i heard of leavenworth before?
19:05 pianohacker US prison for court martialled soldiers, I think
19:05 chris ahhhh that will be it
19:05 chris from movies
19:05 schuster Yep.
19:26 gmcharlt jwagner: about?
19:26 jwagner Yes
19:26 jwagner Sort of....
19:27 gmcharlt heh
19:27 gmcharlt will you have a chance some time this week to review some changes I'm making to the 007 plugin?
19:27 gmcharlt turns out it needs some work to not choke the translator
19:27 jwagner I can try -- what kind of changes?
19:27 gmcharlt mostly reformatting to break up the long JavaScript that xgettext.pl doesn't like
19:28 gmcharlt functionality should be identical otherwise
19:28 jwagner OK, when you're ready let me know what I need to do.
19:28 gmcharlt ok
19:30 chris ok, off to catch the hypothermia bus, back in a bit
19:30 wizzyrea ok, I have another jquery question... say I want to select a div that only shows when in another div: example, I only want to add something to the .container div when it's in yui-main
19:31 wizzyrea but it's a grandchild, not a child
19:31 wizzyrea (i've looked at the examples, I don't get it)
19:31 gmcharlt $('.yui-main .container'); # .yui-main must be an ancester, of any degree, of .container
19:33 wizzyrea hmm...
19:53 wizzyrea I did that but it's either not what I need or I'm doing it wrong. My goal is to get the purchase suggestion box to show both when logged in and when not logged in, with our special text/link additions
19:53 wizzyrea http://catalog.nexpresslibrary[…]=asdfasdfasdfasdf
19:53 wizzyrea i.e.
19:53 pianohacker wizzyrea: Have you tried the AnonSuggestions syspref?
19:55 wizzyrea but we don't want that
19:55 wizzyrea :/
19:56 wizzyrea we want to make them log in
19:56 pianohacker Ohh, I see
19:56 pianohacker Never mind
19:56 wizzyrea yea, good idea though :)
19:56 pianohacker Is the purchase suggestion box even sent to the browser? If it's not there, can't be shown
19:57 wizzyrea no, but the container that goes around it is
19:57 pianohacker OK
19:57 wizzyrea but... that container is used twice, I need to specify which
19:57 wizzyrea i *thought* that galen's way would work, but... it doesn't
19:58 wizzyrea and I"m not sure why... my brain says it should
19:58 wizzyrea but i'm not a computer :P
19:58 pianohacker If the structure of the page is pretty stable, you can use something like $('.container:eq(0)') to select the first one
19:58 wizzyrea Oh... yes... 0 is the index?
19:58 wizzyrea so if you want the 2nd, it's 1
19:58 wizzyrea ?
19:59 wizzyrea I believe it's stable
19:59 wizzyrea i suppose I could tack it onto different text there... maybe I'm going about it the hard way (entirely possible)
19:59 wizzyrea 1s
20:00 wizzyrea (but you gave me an idea!)
20:00 pianohacker Yup
20:02 wizzyrea lulz
20:11 wizzyrea pianohacker: http://nekls.test.kohalibrary.[…]fasdfasdfasdfasdf
20:11 wizzyrea good idea!
20:12 wizzyrea ty for leading me to it
20:12 pianohacker No problem
20:14 chris back
20:20 chris if so, that explains why i cant edit stuff :)
20:20 pianohacker Seems like an odd restriction, given that even adding things requires approval
20:27 chris gmcharlt: started some work on doing a prototype of using template toolkit
20:27 chris http://git.workbuffer.org/cgi-[…]Koha/Templates.pm
20:27 chris http://git.workbuffer.org/cgi-[…]fs/heads/template  
20:27 chris i plan do do the opac-main.pl to use it, and see if we like it or hate it
20:29 pianohacker chris++
20:35 magnusenger TT sounds like a good idea! Haven't had the time to look much at Koha templates yet, but prefer the look of TT to what Koha is using today...
20:36 pianohacker I should have some free time here pretty soon to try to make an H::T::P to TT convertor
20:36 pianohacker From what I know of the languages, it should at least be possible
20:36 chris yeah, at least a darn good start
20:42 gmcharlt chris: cool
20:45 gmcharlt bbiab
20:47 richard hi
20:59 chris hi richard
20:59 richard hey chris
21:04 chris gmcharlt: can you ping me when you get back please/
21:17 nicomo_laptop chris : do you know if any usability testing has been done on Koha in the past?
21:17 chris yes there has been
21:17 chris katipo did some
21:17 chris but not in the last 5 years that i know of
21:17 nicomo_laptop way back when, then...
21:17 nicomo_laptop ok
21:18 nicomo_laptop so we would need to start over if we wanted to do something along those lines
21:18 chris well there has been none done for 3.x afaik
21:18 chris and the UI is pretty much totally different
21:18 chris so yep
21:19 nicomo_laptop I'd love to be able to do this
21:20 nicomo_laptop see you tomorrow #koha
21:20 chris both russel and rachel have a lot of experience with usability testing, dropping them an email might be an idea
21:20 nicomo_laptop ok, will do
21:20 nicomo_laptop thanks
21:23 wizzyrea NEKLS would be happy to help with that
21:23 wizzyrea usability testing
21:23 wizzyrea speaking of usability
21:24 wizzyrea is there a reason why in the OPAC it shows the current location of the item in location, but the home branch's call number?
21:24 chris ohh reed has brought brownies to work JOY!
21:24 wizzyrea shouldn't the two match?
21:24 chris do we store both?
21:24 pianohacker wizzyrea: How do you mean? On what screen?
21:24 wizzyrea 1s, example inc.
21:25 wizzyrea Chris: you can get them in the intranet
21:25 chris i guess we do then ;)
21:25 wizzyrea http://nekls.test.kohalibrary.[…]iblionumber=47833
21:26 wizzyrea i know that you all probably wouldn't know the difference, but wellsville does not have a call number of JF MEYER
21:27 chris what is wrong with them?
21:27 chris ohh i can't spell
21:27 chris yep i see what you mean
21:27 wizzyrea so, a patron could be standing in a library
21:28 chris i cant think of a reason why you wouldnt want the callnumber where it is actually shelved showing there
21:28 wizzyrea say to the staff "I'm looking for JF MEYER"
21:28 chris seems like a bug to me
21:28 wizzyrea and  staff says "that's not our call number"
21:28 wizzyrea or "that's not in our library"
21:28 wizzyrea we thought the exact opposite
21:28 wizzyrea we figured that if a patron wanted to know if wellsville had a book, it should say "wellsville" and show wellsville's call number
21:29 chris yeah thats what i meant
21:29 pianohacker There should really only be one call number per item
21:29 wizzyrea the status says where it is (if it's checked out, we don't care where it is b/c it's not available anyway"
21:29 chris pianohacker: ahh not in consortia
21:29 wizzyrea well I had a mind to fix it but I thought maybe someone would want a syspref to manage that
21:29 wizzyrea which I'm probably not competent to do
21:29 chris couldnt hurt
21:30 pianohacker chris: It makes sense that it should be possible, but Koha can't store multiple call numbers per item, correct?
21:30 wizzyrea not that I'm aware of
21:30 chris i thought you said you could see it in the intranet?
21:30 wizzyrea you can, it's one of our custom changes
21:30 wizzyrea well, we can
21:31 chris oohhh
21:31 chris so you must be storing more than one then
21:31 pianohacker Ah
21:31 wizzyrea I don't think so, we're only talking about the home location vs. current location
21:31 wizzyrea not about call numbers
21:31 chris hehe
21:31 chris we broke pianohacker
21:31 wizzyrea doh >.<
21:31 chris made him reboot
21:32 wizzyrea i've been abusing his mind all day whilst battling jquery.
21:32 chris ok, right, so you have curernt and home branch .. yep thats in koha
21:32 wizzyrea right
21:32 wizzyrea just seems like whatever it is it should be consistent
21:33 chris yep, but how would it know what callnumber it should be if it is at wellsville
21:33 wizzyrea but the most logical way to me is to show the home location (holding branch/library) with its associated call number
21:33 wizzyrea both are attached to the item record
21:33 chris you would have to have one for every branch
21:33 wizzyrea hm... i don't think I'm being clear
21:33 chris for every item
21:34 wizzyrea what we have in the opac is we show the item record, with it's home branch, and home call number
21:34 chris right
21:35 chris and you want to show current branch and current branch callnumber?
21:35 chris but there is no such thing as home callnumber and current branch callnumber ... just 1 callnnumber
21:36 chris so we would need to add callnumbers to all the items, 1 per branch
21:36 wizzyrea what the opac is showing is CURRENT location (where it's been transferred to) and HOME call number
21:36 chris ohhh so
21:36 chris you just want homebranch to show?
21:36 wizzyrea exactly
21:36 chris oh i think there might even be a syspref for that already
21:37 wizzyrea I can't think of a reason anybody would want that combo, current location and home call number
21:37 wizzyrea it would be so spectacular if there was
21:37 chris like pianohacker said, lots of libraries shelf in the same callnumber in all branches
21:37 chris so they wont have noticed the issue
21:37 wizzyrea that's true
21:39 chris ahh there is one for circulation
21:39 chris but not for the opac
21:39 chris Used by Circulation to determine which branch of an item to check with independent branches on, and by search to determine which branch to choose for availability
21:39 chris ok, i reckon we need one in the Opac tab
21:40 chris with the default set to holdingbranch .. so it works the same for everyone now, and you can switch that to homebranch
21:40 wizzyrea right
21:46 chris hmmm
21:46 chris can you do me a flavour wizzyrea
21:46 chris on your test one
21:47 chris toggle the HomeOrHoldingBranch to homebranch
21:47 chris and then refresh taht opac page
21:48 chris i found this in the code
21:48 chris # set item's branch name, use HomeOrHoldingBranch syspref first, fall back to the other one
21:49 ryan imo, that should be considered a bug.  if an item is not in its home location, the call number should not display.
21:50 chris thats another way to do it too
21:53 chris wizzyrea: might be best to file a bug
21:53 chris be nice to have someway for people to tell from the opac that its not in its home location
21:54 chris maybe callnumber should say "go ask a librarian, koha has no idea where this might be shelved" :-)
21:55 chris http://eaves.ca/2009/05/26/why[…]r-in-open-source/
21:57 wizzyrea well I honestly think that it should be a toggle for the OPAC. For systems that use uniform call numbers the default way works fine
21:57 wizzyrea homeorholdingbranch made no difference
21:57 chris worth a try
21:58 chris i think a toggle is good too
21:59 chris probably good to file a bug, and see if you can get some comments on it
21:59 chris ryan: still enjoying the west coast?
21:59 wizzyrea I think it's OK, since the availability is showing, that even if the item is checked out that the home location and home call number show, instead of current location. Patrons (at least ours) dont' care where it is now, they just want to know if they can have it.
22:00 wizzyrea I'll file a bug
22:00 chris cool
22:02 wizzyrea ok peps, ttyl
22:02 wizzyrea thanks for all the help today
22:06 ryan chris: even moreso now that the rainy season has passed :)
22:08 chris :)
22:08 Ricardo Hi everyone  :)
22:08 chris hi Ricardo
22:08 Ricardo Chris: You're just the man I wanted to talk with!
22:09 Ricardo I'm contributing to the translation of Koha to Portuguese...
22:09 chris sup?
22:09 chris cool
22:09 Ricardo ... but I'm a bit lost regarding the translation of the UNIMARC framework. The French one seems to be done in a different way / files than the one from Russia and Ukraine  :-S
22:10 chris ahh yeah
22:10 Ricardo (I know the rest may be /should be translated through Pootle)
22:10 chris yep
22:10 Ricardo But Pootle does NOT cover the Framework, right?
22:10 chris currently the framework isnt translatable in Pootle
22:10 chris no
22:11 Ricardo Right
22:11 chris i would copy how the russian and ukranian ones are done
22:11 Ricardo So, what's the recommended way of translating the framework? I'm guessing editing SQL files but, like I said, the French and the Russian/Ucrainian seem to be doing it differently
22:12 Ricardo Hmmm.... OK. And how are those files "picked up" by Koha? For instance, "uk-UA" uses this:
22:12 Ricardo (running "updatedb"... please wait)
22:14 Ricardo File: /installer/data/mysql/ru-RU/marcfla​vour/unimarc/mandatory/unimarc_bibl​iographic_subfields_[DEFAULT].csv.sql
22:14 chris yep
22:14 Ricardo How does Koha pick that one?  I did a grep for unimarc_bibliographic_subfields and found nothing  :-(
22:14 chris the installer does
22:14 chris http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]76895d9904e8a9118
22:15 chris basically you need to do that
22:15 chris make a pt-PT dir
22:16 Ricardo Create a pt-PT under installer/data/mysql/ right?
22:16 chris yep
22:17 chris and copy all the files from uk-UA or ru-RU
22:17 Ricardo And is it correct to have files with Item Types "hardcoded" in the name, like the uk-UA has:
22:18 Ricardo File: installer/data/mysql/uk-UA/marcflavour/unimarc/opt​ional/unimarc_bibliographic_subfields_[BOOK].csv.sql
22:18 Ricardo ?
22:18 chris those are for special frameworks for books
22:18 chris doesnt hurt to have that in there
22:19 chris makes it easier to see what it is ;)
22:19 Ricardo Right. I gathered as much  :)  Doesn't that require the framework to be called "BOOK" as well, to work?
22:20 Ricardo I'm guessing it does, from this:
22:20 Ricardo INSERT INTO `authorised_values` (`tagfield`, `tagsubfield`, `liblibrarian`, `libopac`, `repeatable`, `mandatory`, `kohafield`, `tab`, `authorised_value`, `authtypecode`, `value_builder`, `isurl`, `hidden`, `frameworkcode`, `seealso`, `link`, `defaultvalue`) VALUES ('001','@','Ð?ПЌер іЎеМтОфікації прОЌіткО','','0','0','','3','​','','','0','1','BOOK','','','NULL');
22:20 Ricardo (frameworkcode = BOOK, if I'm reading this right)
22:21 chris http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]ee0caa59bbcbcf8f3
22:21 chris yep
22:21 Ricardo My Ukrainian is a bit rusty, but thanks anyway!  ;-)
22:21 chris looks like it makes those framworks
22:21 chris BOOK
22:21 chris PER
22:21 chris etc
22:21 Ricardo Right
22:21 chris then populates each of them
22:22 chris whereas in marc21 en
22:22 chris we have one huge file that does both at once
22:23 chris so you can do it either way really
22:23 Ricardo It's the hard coding of the name in the frameworkcode that may cause me some trouble, but I guess that will do
22:23 chris since you will probably be maintaining it, do it in whatever way makes more sense for you :)
22:23 Ricardo So, if those files exist under "pt-PT", the installer will "automagically" work with it, or must I edit some code in the installer Perl code, in order for it to work?
22:24 chris lemme check that, i hope its automagically but i will check
22:24 Ricardo OK. Thanks. Waiting  :)
22:28 chris i see nothing specific in the code
22:28 Ricardo Great... I guess I'll have long nights and afternoon...
22:29 chris :)
22:29 Ricardo Could you please do NOT consider the deadline the New Zealand time? You're many hours ahead of us!  ;-)
22:29 chris it will be french time :)
22:29 Ricardo OK. Fair enough  :)
22:30 Ricardo I found it kind of funny then, when searching for Translation information in the wiki, I found this:
22:30 Ricardo http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]owtotranslatekoha
22:30 Ricardo Read that page  :)
22:30 chris heh
22:31 Ricardo I'm NOT any of those Portuguese / Brazilian guys, but I think that proves 2 things:
22:31 Ricardo 1 - We need to put some information about the translation process in the Wiki
22:31 chris yep
22:31 Ricardo 2 - There's interest in the Portuguese community to have a Portuguese translation!  :)
22:32 chris http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php#translation
22:33 Ricardo chris: Right. There's where I found the "HowToTranslateKoha" page (the one with the Portuguese people asking for a Portuguese translation)
22:33 chris we should fill that area out a lot more
22:33 Ricardo Ah! Agreed!
22:33 chris the first thing should be
22:33 chris email koha-translate
22:33 chris and introduce yourself
22:34 chris because there may be people already working on things you want to work on
22:34 Ricardo Maybe... Adding information about the mailing list "koha-translate" is vital, granted.
22:34 Ricardo ... but I would also add some information about Pootle.
22:34 chris yep
22:34 Ricardo Oh well, it's always easier to talk about things (like I'm doing now), than ACTUALLY doing them, right?  ;-)
22:36 Ricardo I think that's one of the reasons that prompted me to create the "INSTALL.opensuse" file / wiki page (I had problems installing Koha in openSUSE, saw people with some problems, and had the knowledge/experience to try to help. And some TIME too... NOW that's lacking now  :(
22:38 chris http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]owtotranslatekoha
22:38 chris theres a start
22:38 Ricardo now THAT was quick!  :)
22:38 chris will try to add some more after work
22:39 Ricardo Great Chris!
22:39 Ricardo My gitweb skills are lame...
22:40 Ricardo How do I find/search for the "user_flags.txt" file in gitweb?
22:40 chris use the tree links
22:40 chris http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]gi?p=Koha;a=tree;
22:40 chris if you have some idea where it is anyway
22:40 Ricardo chris: Right. That enables me to browse.... If I know the directory of the file that helps...
22:41 Ricardo I'm guessing it's easier to find the file in my Linux installation than in gitweb then  :-(
22:41 chris yep
22:41 Ricardo OK. Thanks for the feedback
22:42 Ricardo Chris: Should the Portuguese translation be sent to the "3.0.x" branch? To HEAD? To both?
22:43 chris of the frameworks? hmm both
22:43 Ricardo Right ("of the frameworks"). OK. Thanks!  :)
22:44 Ricardo I think that, for some of the files, I will copy the english version instead (it's easier to translate and not that bad if I miss the translation of some terms...)
22:46 chris sounds like a good idea to me
22:47 Ricardo Hmm... Yes, thanks. There's a problem though. Filename differences:
22:47 Ricardo "user_flags.txt" (uk-UA) Vs "userflags.txt" (en), for instance
22:48 Ricardo Also "userpermissions.sql" that "uk-UA" has and "en" does NOT
22:48 chris im not sure it matters as long as the .sql and .txt files have the same filename
22:48 chris also if it turns out it does
22:48 chris git mv is easy :)
22:48 Ricardo You're the git guru. Not me!  :)
22:49 Ricardo I just "get around" git
22:49 Ricardo I'm only one step above "git newbie"
22:49 chris git mv oldname somenewname
22:49 chris done :)
22:49 Ricardo OK. Thanks for the tip!  :)
22:55 Ricardo Shoud I add:
22:55 Ricardo set NAMES 'utf8';
22:56 Ricardo at the top of my .sql framework files?
22:56 chris hmm that im not sure about, but yeah, i reckon so
22:57 Ricardo OK. Thanks
23:01 pianohacker Ricardo: Confirmed from source that you do. The installation module does not do SET NAMES utf8, though the rest of koha does
23:02 Ricardo pianohacker: Thanks for the info. So, I should ADD it at the top of my .sql files, right?
23:02 pianohacker Yup
23:03 Ricardo pianohacker: Cool. Thanks!  :)
23:03 pianohacker ++ for translation, by the way
23:05 Ricardo pianohacker: Right. At least, for the SQL files that have "weird" characters in it (accented and/or foreign characters)
23:05 chris yeah, it doesnt hurt to do it for everything anway
23:05 pianohacker Yup
23:05 Ricardo chris: OK :)
23:07 Ricardo BRB
23:17 Ricardo Back
23:19 Ricardo Are there any mandatory files for the translation to work (I mean, NOT to crash Koha)?
23:19 Ricardo (regarding the files under /installer/data/mysql  I mean)
23:20 pianohacker I think the only language-dependent, mandatory files are the framework definitions
23:20 chris the mandatory ones maybe?
23:20 chris im not sure actually
23:20 chris translating frameworks is a new(ish) thing
23:20 Ricardo pianohacker / chris: OK. Thanks. If Koha 3.02 crashes hard, you'll know I'm the one to blame!  ;-)
23:20 chris :)
23:29 Ricardo Hmmm... The French translation has authorities SQL files for MARC21 but not for UNIMARC:
23:30 Ricardo FILE: /blib/INTRANET_CGI_DIR/installer/dat​a/mysql/fr-FR/marcflavour/marc21/Obl​igatoire/authorities_normal_marc21.sql
23:30 Ricardo Is this to be expected?  :-S
23:30 chris authorities work totally different in UNIMARC
23:30 chris maybe they dont use that file
23:30 chris you would want to talk the french guys about that
23:31 Ricardo Could be... This is looking darker and darker by the minute...
23:31 chris i would also suggest emailing Andrei
23:32 chris pm'd you the email address
23:32 chris he did hte UK and RU translations
23:32 chris and has excellent english
23:32 Ricardo chris: OK. Thanks for the info  :)
23:32 chris so he might be a good source of help
23:32 Ricardo Right
23:34 Ricardo BRB
23:56 Ricardo Back
23:57 Ricardo Furiously translating authority tags  :)
00:31 Ricardo OK. It's WAY past my bed time now (1H30 AM here in Lisbon). I need to go to sleep.
00:31 Ricardo Chris and pianohacker: Thank you very much for helping!  :)
00:31 pianohacker No problem, thanks for translating
00:31 chris sleep well
00:31 Ricardo pianohacker: You're welcome  :)
00:31 Ricardo chris: Thanks!
00:31 Ricardo chris: What's the time now there?
00:32 chris 12.32 pm
00:32 Ricardo chris: OK. Have a nice lunch, then!  ;-)
00:32 Ricardo Cheers!  :)
00:33 chris thanks :)
00:35 Ricardo Bye!
00:49 pianohacker Good night, #koha
03:26 Amit hi brendan, chris mason good morning
03:26 Amit hi hdl good morning
03:26 hdl_laptop hi Amit
03:28 Jo morning AMit
03:29 Amit hi jo good morning
03:46 brendan heya Amit
03:50 Amit heya brendan
04:57 mason mornign amit
05:02 Amit hi mason after long time
05:50 Amit hi honey
05:50 honey hi Amit
07:48 Amit hi kf
07:48 indradg chris, around?
07:49 kf hi Amit and indradg
07:49 indradg hi kf
07:54 chris hi indradg
07:54 chris ltns
08:02 indradg chris, yep.. lots of changes... but now getting back to old things that i really knew for a change :D
08:08 chris cool
08:25 Amit hi nicomo, paul
08:32 chris hi hdl_laptop
08:37 Amit hi chris
11:20 chris hmm must be nearly bedtime i think
11:30 chris hi jwagner and bye
11:31 gmcharlt good morning all
11:31 gmcharlt (and g'night chris)
11:33 jwagner Good morning and good night!
11:35 Amit hi gmcharlt
11:35 Amit hi jwagner
11:35 jwagner Hi Amit.
11:51 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt
11:51 gmcharlt hi hdl_laptop
11:51 gmcharlt hi Amit

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