IRC log for #koha, 2009-05-07

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:02 slef sending
12:06 gmcharlt slef: thanks
12:13 gmcharlt slef: dokuwiki changelogs most easily give me the number of times a user made an edit
12:13 gmcharlt so I propose that voting be open to anybody who's made more than say 5 edits
12:14 gmcharlt hmm - actually, no that's not good enough
12:14 gmcharlt anybody who's created a page should be included as well
12:51 slef heh[…]e-on-twitter.html
12:56 gmcharlt slef: just sent out an RFC for relicensing the wiki
12:57 gmcharlt as a side note, it looks like clarifying the manual's license is in order
12:57 gmcharlt currently GPL, should be GFDL or CC (or both)
13:02 slef no, should be GPL
13:02 slef neither FDL or (nearly all) CC are FOSS licences
13:03 slef I guess the wiki should probably be something very free-for-all or GPL
13:04 slef FDL particularly irks me.  A non-free-software licence from the Free Software Foundation which allows adware and is impractical for most documentation
13:05 gmcharlt re wiki, is CC-BY-SA ok, or would you want it plain CC-CY
13:05 gmcharlt *CC-BY
13:16 slef CC-BY-SA would be incompatible with anything GPL'd I think, so CC-By may be better
13:17 slef I licensed today's new page under the WTFPL just to be silly
13:17 slef CC0 is another option if you really want some sort of CC
13:17 slef at least I think it is - I've not looked in detail at it yet
13:18 slef it appeared since I was on the debian-CC working group
13:18 slef looking
13:20 slef
13:31 gmcharlt[…]ommonsShare-Alike.28CC-SA.29v3.0
13:31 gmcharlt CC-BY is fine
13:32 slef never trust wikis without citations
13:33 slef it's being allowed in for now, but there's considerable uncertainty about the TPM/DRM ban
13:34 gmcharlt slef: not that you could tell from
13:34 slef sure - there are examples of both main and not distributable
13:35 slef is a summary and I didn't list lots of ambiguous cases
13:35 slef I also didn't link the WTFPL because it's NSFW and I didn't want that flamewar
13:36 gmcharlt if it's any consolation, I did find the WTFPL funny
13:48 hdl_laptop1 gmcharlt: are you better now ?
13:48 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: yes, thank you
13:48 hdl_laptop1 gmcharlt: I have worked on 3.0.2
13:48 gmcharlt cool
13:48 hdl_laptop1 only based on cherry picking.
13:49 hdl_laptop1 It is about 200 commits.
13:49 hdl_laptop1 It might be considered as 1st step towards reconciliation.
13:49 gmcharlt yep
13:50 hdl_laptop1 but I will let you judge it.
13:50 hdl_laptop1 Problem is :
13:50 hdl_laptop1 I told there would be no NEW feature. only bugfixes.
13:50 hdl_laptop1 But
13:51 hdl_laptop1 LT Babeltheque and all the fixes on holds and Branchtransfer limit.
13:51 hdl_laptop1 Are new things.
13:51 hdl_laptop1 I would like to :
13:52 hdl_laptop1 release this time without those features and then announce reconciliation and integration of those features.
13:52 hdl_laptop1 does that sound realistic and ok ?
13:52 hdl_laptop1 I think we can discuss it tonight.
13:52 gmcharlt backporting support for enhanced content providers is reasonable
13:53 gmcharlt & hold fixes
13:53 gmcharlt my main concern is that there ends up being a clean path to upgrade 3.0.x installations to 3.2 in the future
13:53 gmcharlt particularly managing the DB schema
13:54 gmcharlt and ensuring that any other new features in 3.0.x don't disappear unexpected after upgrade to tip
13:54 gmcharlt slef: CC0 is OK with me as an alternative license
13:56 gmcharlt slef: my preference is descending order is CC-BY, CC0, outright public domain dedication (but may as well do CC0), CC-BY-SA
13:57 gmcharlt I feel that retaining attribution is a Feature
13:57 gmcharlt by that can be done by CC0 + a request that reusers consider attribution
13:58 slef is there an equivalent of git annotate for the wiki?
13:59 slef I'm not confident that I could find who was the author for wiki pages
13:59 slef much less for parts of them
14:01 atz slef: wiki has built in "diff" view (side by side comparison)
14:01 atz but i don't know any way to get git-blame style info
14:02 gmcharlt a blame/annotation mode could be built
14:02 gmcharlt but I'm not finding a plugin that does it automatically
14:03 slef atz: try using it to find who wrote what on[…]portingfornewbies - I think we have a practical problem with attributing across several versions of a couple of at least three wiki sites :-/
14:03 slef s/a couple of/
14:04 gmcharlt we could always export each version of every page, and feed results into a git repo
14:04 gmcharlt *then* use git-blame :)
14:05 slef oooh look, gmcharlt wrote it all
14:07 gmcharlt simpler for future may be requiring use of signatures on certain pages
14:07 atz yeah, that actually is proper "wiki style" afaik
14:29 wizzyrea rhcl or gmcharlt: have a min?
14:29 gmcharlt wizzyrea: what's up?
14:29 wizzyrea idk if you're in the loop on the bizarre hold pick list problems we're having?
14:30 wizzyrea we don't really understand the message we got from cookie
14:30 wizzyrea ^.^
14:30 gmcharlt wizzyrea: it's on my bug list
14:31 wizzyrea is that  LL bug or a koha bug? Number?
14:31 gmcharlt LL bug at moment - I'll make sure it's added to koha bug DB later today
14:33 wizzyrea k. cool. So the workaround is to set the numbering manually?
14:33 wizzyrea the queuing?
14:33 gmcharlt for now
14:34 wizzyrea is there a way with your ticketing to make sure that a further info reply attaches to a specific ticket?
14:34 wizzyrea or just reply w/ subject intact
14:35 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yeah, just reply w/subject intact
14:35 wizzyrea kk ty
14:35 wizzyrea I have more examples, if you need them (you probably don't)
14:36 jwagner wizzyrea, can you describe the holds problem?  I'm still having trouble here.
14:37 wizzyrea oi, I can try
14:38 wizzyrea books have been transferred, they show up on the pick list the next day
14:38 wizzyrea is issue 1
14:38 jwagner transferred between branches?
14:39 wizzyrea yea, and the transferring branch gets the book on the pick list again
14:41 jwagner So it's on the pick list at both branches?  Not likely to be our problem (single branch), but holds are gnarly in general....
14:41 atz wizzyrea: did the receiving branch not confirm the hold when they checked in the book?
14:42 wizzyrea it probably was in a courier bin
14:42 wizzyrea but they were definitely transferred out (slips printed as evidence) correctly
14:43 wizzyrea probably the item was in the bin but the transfer didn't get registered?
14:43 wizzyrea so it thought it was still at the transferring library
14:43 wizzyrea it = koha
14:43 atz yeah, i'm guessing that's what it is.
14:44 atz the workflow is to receive the item (checking it in), because who knows, maybe the user cancelled the hold, right?
14:44 wizzyrea the reporting library has pretty low human error rate on transferring holds out
14:44 atz at that checkin, the normal alert "This is on hold for user X" asks for confirmation
14:45 wizzyrea right, right
14:45 atz and then it goes on the hold shelf
14:45 wizzyrea or in the courier bin
14:45 wizzyrea to be transferred
14:45 atz no, i mean after transferral
14:45 wizzyrea oh, right
14:45 atz the workflow is to recieve the item ....
14:45 wizzyrea yes, on the shelf
14:46 atz it can't go straight to the shelf because the user might have cancelled the hold during (undetermined time of) the transfer
14:46 atz and because the system won't know it is in the right branch now
14:46 atz (triggering pickup notices)
14:47 wizzyrea because it hasn't been received
14:47 atz does that make sense?
14:48 wizzyrea or because the hold that is targetting doesn't exist
14:48 wizzyrea 2nd, right?
14:48 atz yeah... it's still in a "branch A says they sent it" status until branch B says "we got it"
14:48 atz wizzyrea: the 1st, i think
14:49 wizzyrea if branch b checks it in, and the hold doesn't exist, this process goes fubar?
14:49 wizzyrea atm?
14:50 wizzyrea right, in a normal circumstance it would say "branch A sent it" until branch B receives it, but it didn't always put items that had been transferred back on the sending branch's pick list
14:50 wizzyrea (hold queue)
14:50 wizzyrea which is something we're seeing now
14:51 wizzyrea in addition to this deal with the queuing of holds going funny when someone cancels a hold
14:51 atz no, it goes normal
14:51 atz same thing as would happen in any case "This item belongs to Branch A.  Initiate Transfer?"
14:51 atz not sure what you mean.  the message saying effectively "send it back" doesn't have anything to do w/ holds
14:52 atz so you are just looking to add a status on pick list that indicates "you say you sent this already, but they haven't confirmed yet"
14:52 atz ?
14:53 wizzyrea let me rephrase... koha shouldn't put items that are in the courier bin to be transferred back on the holds queue list
14:53 wizzyrea which is (apparently?) a new behavior we're seeing now
14:54 atz "to be transferred, back on"  or "to be transferred back, on"  ?
14:54 wizzyrea to be transferred, back on
14:54 wizzyrea hehe, sorry. it's confusing
14:57 wizzyrea so, jwagner, you can see that we're all in a muddle with holds :P
15:00 jwagner It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma?
15:02 wizzyrea snuggled with a conundrum
15:07 wizzyrea can anybody tell me what would cause this:[…]817d-42e944400e90
15:07 wizzyrea when viewing a normal bib detail in staff
15:09 jwagner A corrupted MARC record?  I've seen similar displays in other systems when the MARC got really screwed.
15:10 wizzyrea we can look at the marc view :/
15:11 wizzyrea fwiw that's what I thought too. I don't really have a way to fix it though. :(
15:11 jwagner If you have the biblio number, export it and look at it in MarcEdit?
15:12 atz wizzyrea: encoding
15:12 atz but that level of browser confusion shouldn't be possible
15:13 atz since that is the details page... the first chunk of the HTML, CSS, and JS are all going to be normal and change based on record data
15:13 atz wizzyrea: can you "view source" and see if it is any different?
15:13 atz also check headers... see what the content type is
15:16 wizzyrea kk un  moment
15:18 wizzyrea this one is a little different
15:18 wizzyrea[…]9cc3-ebb786ae4f71
15:19 wizzyrea
15:19 wizzyrea source
15:21 wizzyrea doesn't look too suspicious to me
15:27 atz wizzyrea: possible gzip compression error?
15:27 atz source looks normal
15:32 atz a friend of a friend admins for pastebin.... he was saying ppl put *all kinds* of personal/confidential info in there
15:34 atz wizzyrea: using amazon content?
15:35 atz i think ryan found that amazon sends back some insane data for certain items
15:35 Sharon atz Liz is in the lab with us discussing stuff.  She's on her way back to the office.
15:36 wizzyrea yessir, we are
15:36 Sharon think we should turn off amazon for awhile?
15:37 atz please try disabling it.  if the records view fine, then we at least know the culprit.
15:37 wizzyrea the only thing that is "weird" about this bib is that 1. it has a gazillion items and 2. it has bunches of holds
15:37 wizzyrea but will try turning off amazn
15:37 wizzyrea 2 possibly being more relevant than 1
15:37 wizzyrea since this just started happening with the last patches
15:37 wizzyrea and only on high hold items
15:38 atz wizzyrea: interesting.
15:38 atz don't know how it would cause the encoding though... if it couldn't process it, you would just get a clean 500 error
15:38 Sharon I have a list of problematic bibs - Max, Twilight, Eclipse, New Moon
15:39 atz same publisher? (i.e., same amazon content originator)
15:39 wizzyrea dk, let me turn it off
15:40 Sharon let's look
15:40 atz wizzyrea: did you have a chance to check firebug for the content-type?
15:40 wizzyrea is amazon
15:40 wizzyrea it loads now
15:40 wizzyrea atz = epic win
15:41 wizzyrea checking, sorry stepped away for a sec
15:41 atz np, doesn't matter
15:42 atz not much quality control @amazon apparently... the just let publishers throw whatever code in there that they want
15:42 atz valid/invalid HTML, crazy formatting hacks from the 90's, etc.
15:42 pianohacker Sharon: Gah, New Moon seemed to highlight several bugs in our koha too
15:43 Sharon those stephanie meyer books are just so popular, they test the limits
15:43 wizzyrea hm. So. Turning it off fixes it
15:43 wizzyrea but we like that functionality...
15:43 wizzyrea so... try google?
15:43 wizzyrea lol
15:43 atz heh
15:43 wizzyrea iknorite
15:46 wizzyrea does anybody know is there a "report this cover art as <insert negative adjective here>" functionality for book covers?
15:47 wizzyrea from amazon
15:47 wizzyrea I'll go lookk just thought maybe someone might know right off
15:48 pianohacker atz: Is there a Koha source convention on using parens for language-core functions ( like split )?
15:49 atz pianohacker: mostly whatever perl best practices says
15:49 atz just go for clarity
15:50 pianohacker Yeah. It's looking like I'll need a copy of that book if I want to keep developing in this wacky language
15:51 atz you work for a library right?
15:51 atz :)
15:52 pianohacker Heh. Would be a bit of an abuse of my friendship with the acq people; the HTML book I donated last year still has not been checked out, to my knowledge
15:53 wizzyrea ILL!
15:53 Sharon all the music CDs I donated to my library haven't circulated either...nobody likes alt country, I guess.
15:54 pianohacker I confess I have never even heard of alt-country
15:54 atz CDs are the vinyl of the rather immediate future.
15:56 Sharon I don't own an ipod yet, I'm still old skool
15:56 wizzyrea atz: I have a friend who still only buys CD's just so she can show everyone what a music snob she is. So yes, I agree.
15:57 wizzyrea I'm working on her though. She'd get more benefit from an iPhone I think ;)
15:57 pianohacker Not a G1? :)
15:57 atz the real gap-bridger will be when your average touring band has a mechanism to sell MP3s *for cash* at the end of their shows
15:58 atz so they can make it to the next town
15:58 Sharon true
15:59 pianohacker The way flash memory's going, it'll probably be disposable usb drives
15:59 Sharon or add their band logo tot he usb and sell it for $5
16:00 atz bluetooth data xfer for the environmentalists
16:00 pianohacker Four years ago, a device the size of your thumb that can store 2GB of data for about 30 bucks would have seemed insane (it still does, really)
16:00 pianohacker bluetooth++
16:00 atz pianohacker: $30?  try $5
16:01 pianohacker atz: ... and it's apparently dropped in the months since I got mine, wow
16:01 wizzyrea they have 30GB ones now that are around 30 bucks
16:01 wizzyrea which to me just seems nuts
16:01 wizzyrea why are SSD's so expensive again?
16:02 atz wizzyrea: bandwidth
16:02 wizzyrea Bah. You have an answer for everything ;)
16:02 atz USB 2 < ATA < SCSI
16:03 wizzyrea ok ok you win
16:03 wizzyrea lol
16:03 pianohacker And I image they would use slightly higher-quality flash memory, so it would last longer
16:03 atz yeah, since it's not supposed to be disposable
16:04 Sharon unrelated, we just noticed the new Item Checkout and Item Check in options in the messaging. cool beans
16:04 wizzyrea isn't the wear cycle of flash memory on the order of 5-10 years continuous use though?
16:04 atz Sharon: yeah, i believe john beppu worked on those
16:04 wizzyrea so like, 30 years average use
16:04 wizzyrea or somesuch
16:05 wizzyrea I'd have to look it up heh
16:05 Sharon with story time coming up, I can see some Mom's excited about losing the 3 ft slip of receipt paper and just getting an email
16:11 atz my web connection is choking...
16:12 Sharon We need to turn off the images in the OPAC as well as the staff client
17:15 Sharon question - what does the 'cancel reserve' check box do? Who's reserve is canceled?
17:17 slef 'cancel reserve' check box on which page?
17:17 Sharon
17:17 slef looking
17:18 Sharon ty. trying to determine if it's useful or dangerous
17:19 slef (thinking aloud) actual call is AddIssue( $borrower, $barcode, $datedue, $cancelreserve );
17:19 slef AddIssue is in C4::Circulation
17:20 slef =item C<$cancelreserve> is 1 to override and cancel any pending reserves for the item (optional).
17:20 slef
17:20 slef so it cancels everyone else's reserves
17:20 slef OK?
17:21 Sharon yep. we'll have to see if there's a way to add a name after 'cancel reserve' so it's very clear to staff whose reserve is being cancelled
17:21 slef (I've not checked that the code matches perldoc C4/, though)
17:22 slef edit en/modules/circulation.tmpl to put a label by it
17:23 slef the checkbox is actually named cancelreserve
17:23 Sharon cool, I'll ask Liz to do that for us.
17:23 Sharon or we'll just comment out the cancelreserve function
17:23 slef don't they give you a text editor? ;-)
17:24 Sharon i'm not smart 'nuf for that template changing
17:24 slef (I know the reasons for not letting everyone edit, really)
17:24 slef (being silly)
17:24 slef ok, off to cook
17:24 Sharon thanks for the explanation
17:24 slef np
17:25 slef hope I gave enough info to suggest where to look for similar questions if no-one is alive here ;)
17:26 pianohacker I consider the fact that you got that much useful information out of valiant and admirable (I've had some memorable battles with that module)
17:27 Sharon we'll have to share our tests later - when you cancel a reserve, it reprioritizes the holds list unfairly.
17:46 brendan good morning #koha
17:47 brendan interesting night last night - with the brush fires in Santa Barbara (where I live) getting big
17:47 brendan had a few friends evacuated and crashing at my house
17:50 atz crazy
17:52 brendan yeah atz, I guess time to get used to living in Socal.
17:52 atz and pay your insurance
17:53 brendan the fire insurance is the easy part...  the most difficult is coming up with good earthquake insurance
17:53 atz yeah, how do you shop for that?
17:53 brendan All of the insurance companies have really weird rules
17:54 brendan they will insure you only if you are allowed back in the build.  but if the build is commended then you don't get insurance
17:54 brendan kind of pointless IMHO
17:55 atz yeah... catch22 there
18:03 schuster Is there an easy way to turn off the language preferences in pac?  I can't seem to locate that.
18:03 gmcharlt via opaclanguages
18:04 gmcharlt I recently did a patch to remove the language chooser if only one OPAC (or staff) language is selected
18:07 schuster Is that "under the hood" or is there a system preference someplace that I am missing?  What I am seeing is that with languages on in the PAC - with IE you can't see the 1, 2, 3 etc... for more display titles.
18:07 schuster So you see the first page, but can't see the second but only in IE.
18:09 schuster Question about speeding up Circ as well.  Currently say Time magazine - you get 52 a year(weekly) but if we have 10 schools that get it you have over 520 items attached to it.
18:09 schuster When you checkout it REALLY slows down currently in 3.0.  Should we make seperate Bibs for each location or will this be handled differently with 3.2?
18:11 gmcharlt the idea for 3.2 is to speed it up by not embedding items in in the MARC bib record (except when you need to export a MARC bib or index it)
18:11 gmcharlt that will basically solve the performance problem
18:13 schuster OK thanks - just trying to plan how to implement serials and what I need to do.  In the upgrade from 3.0 to 3.2 then it will "remove" the item information from the bib or just leave it?
18:14 gmcharlt remove it, most likely
18:24 schuster thanks - still working to find the language issue - I saw a reference to syspref's, but nothing with language or opaclanguage on any of those pages.
18:25 gmcharlt schuster: the syspref is called opaclanguages
18:38 chris morning
18:39 pianohacker mornin'
18:39 gmcharlt howdy chris
18:39 brendan morning chris
18:40 chris fires under control brendan ?
18:40 brendan the wind has died down... so some what under control.  They had helicopters dumping water on the flames all night
18:41 brendan the fire is close to builds though...  so far none have been lost, but it's close
18:41 brendan s/buildings/
18:42 chris heres hoping they get it under control before any are lost
18:42 chris do they know what started it?
18:42 brendan still no known cause
18:42 brendan that I've heard of
18:43 brendan it started up on a hiking trail, so I guess you could draw your own conclusions
18:44 chris *nod*
18:59 chris oh wow that was just my 800th blog post
18:59 gmcharlt and on that note, let's start the meeting
18:59 slef chris: newbie
18:59 chris heh
18:59 gmcharlt greetings all
18:59 gmcharlt first general Koha IRC meeting in yonks
19:00 gmcharlt agenda and meeting notes:[…]etingnotes09apr07
19:00 gmcharlt thanks to slef for starting the wiki page
19:00 gmcharlt shall we start with a quick roll call of whoever's in channel and participating/listening?
19:01 chris chris cormack here
19:01 slef MJ Ray here
19:01 sekjal sure.  Ian Walls, NYU Health Science Libraries
19:01 jwagner Jane Wagner here
19:01 brendan Brendan Gallagher here
19:01 danny Danny Bouman here
19:01 Colin Colin Campbell here
19:01 thd gmcharlt: how long is a yonk?
19:02 gmcharlt thd: unspecific unit, but too long
19:02 thd Thomas Dukleth here
19:02 chris hi reed, we are just doing roll call
19:03 slef thd: 1 year 9 months thereabouts
19:03 mdhafen here
19:03 _eric_b Eric Begin here
19:03 slef thd: or 2 years 3 months for general meeting
19:04 reed hey, Reed Wade here (lost my keyboard for a moment)
19:04 gmcharlt reed: better chain it :)
19:04 meliss Melissa Lefebvre here
19:05 ruth Ruth Vargas here
19:05 dbirmingham David Birmingham in the room
19:05 gmcharlt ok - thanks - any latecomers should  feel free to chime in for rollcall at any point
19:05 gmcharlt so for agenda, we have four points
19:05 gmcharlt 1/ Koha 3.2/tip status and timeline
19:06 gmcharlt 2. Koha 3.0.x status
19:06 gmcharlt 3. Koha bugs database
19:06 gmcharlt 4. KohaCon 2009 report
19:06 gmcharlt so starting with the 3.2 update
19:06 gmcharlt there are several large bits of integration to do over the summer
19:07 gmcharlt BibLibre's acq developments
19:07 gmcharlt holdings & circ work by LL
19:07 gmcharlt so my intention is to declare a feature freeze for 3.2 by end of August
19:07 gmcharlt start a 3.4/future at that point in time
19:08 wizzyrea Liz Rea NEKLS here
19:08 gmcharlt allow two months for bugfixes, stabliization, and 3.2 translation
19:08 gmcharlt putting release by end of October
19:08 gmcharlt as far as anything past the end of summer goes
19:08 gmcharlt 3.2 is going to be calendar driven by that point
19:09 gmcharlt i.e., what we have by end of August in terms of features and major archictrual changes
19:09 gmcharlt will be it
19:09 chris works for me
19:09 gmcharlt anything new will be relegated to the future branch
19:09 gmcharlt I will do a pre-pre-alpha release some time in June
19:09 gmcharlt just to run through the packaing process
19:10 gmcharlt and at least one intermediate between then and August
19:10 gmcharlt paul's recently got his acq stuff ported to head
19:10 gmcharlt so once he has the patches read
19:10 gmcharlt ready
19:10 gmcharlt they'll be put on a topic branch in the public repo
19:10 gmcharlt for a couple weeks of integration
19:10 gmcharlt prior to merging into main
19:11 gmcharlt so unless something goes seriously awry
19:11 gmcharlt the acq module should be in the June tarball
19:11 gmcharlt from my and LL's point of view
19:11 gmcharlt we have a large backlog of stuff to communicate
19:11 gmcharlt about what we've been up to development-wise
19:12 gmcharlt and we'll be posting about that as part of the ramp-up to June
19:12 gmcharlt some experimental branches are in order
19:12 gmcharlt as a result of things people want to play around with
19:12 gmcharlt and metnioned during KohaCon or before
19:12 gmcharlt pianohacker's JSON work
19:13 gmcharlt chris and beppu et al memcached experimentation
19:13 gmcharlt and some investigation of Template Toolkit
19:13 chris slef: what do you reckon the chances of having .debs for 3.2 are ? is that something we can aim for too?
19:13 gmcharlt and experimental ORM (DBIx::Class, most likely)
19:14 slef chris: pretty good I think
19:14 cait Katrin Fischer here
19:14 gmcharlt slef: you're doing the deb for 3.0.x as well, right?
19:14 slef gmcharlt: probably
19:14 thd slef: what about debs for backports?
19:14 slef thd: should be doable
19:15 chris yay!
19:15 slef lenny or later at least
19:15 gmcharlt other 3.2 stuff not related to code as such
19:15 gmcharlt I'm going to revive a weekly RM newsletter
19:15 gmcharlt "stuff new in tip" or the like
19:16 chris cool
19:16 gmcharlt or possibly do it as
19:16 gmcharlt I don't have any personal preference whether it is a blog or e-mail newsletter
19:16 chris or both?
19:16 gmcharlt or both
19:16 wizzyrea I like that, always accessible and archived and not in my inbox
19:17 pianohacker I think there are rss-to-email gateways that would automate it for you
19:17 gmcharlt if I do it as blog off of, my inclination is to give accounts to anybody who was an RM or RMaint for any version of Koha
19:17 reed i'm thinking there may be some automated blog to email services around
19:17 wizzyrea def are with WP
19:17 slef ok but suggest feedwordpress plugin
19:17 chris that sounds like a good idea
19:18 gmcharlt the other thing re periodic email
19:18 slef can help with plugins offlist
19:18 gmcharlt is somebody at KohaCon suggested a monthly (or whatever) project FAQ email
19:18 gmcharlt i.e., here's where to find Koha doc
19:19 gmcharlt how to ask questions, etc.
19:19 chris like the first of the month email losts of lists do?
19:19 gmcharlt somethign like that
19:19 gmcharlt I'm inclined to call something like that documentation and fob it off to nengard ;)
19:19 chris :)
19:19 slef is that best, or making sure the welcome email is as good as it can be?
19:19 chris yeah if she isnt here, she gets it ... them's the rules
19:20 slef ISTR koha list welcome emails are the Mailman boilerplate
19:20 chris apostrophe fail, need more coffee
19:20 hdl_laptop1 gm i can help with list manager monhtly email
19:20 chris ahh good idea too slef, make the initial email better too
19:21 hdl_laptop1 or initial email.
19:21 hdl_laptop1 i just need the text.
19:21 hdl_laptop1 and will have it translated.
19:23 chris i guess it could be written up in draft on the wiki then let people make some edits
19:23 hdl_laptop1 mmm....could be.
19:24 gmcharlt[…]koha_list_welcome
19:24 hdl_laptop1 but when should it called freezed version then ?
19:24 gmcharlt assuming nengard has time and is willing to do the first draft
19:24 gmcharlt I suppose when she says so and has given people a chance to look at it
19:25 thd gmcharlt: In the past, there has been some confusion about what a feature freeze should mean.  Some have thought no new database columns while others have thought that adding columns could not possibly break anything.
19:25 hdl_laptop1 thd: it is not about koha feature ;)
19:25 gmcharlt thd: my preference is that a feature freeze means no new database tables or columns
19:25 gmcharlt thd: except to fix blockers
19:26 hdl_laptop1 gmcharlt: ++
19:26 gmcharlt but hdl_laptop1 is right
19:26 gmcharlt about the context
19:26 chris good morning IrmaCalyx, kudos for being awake at 5.30am
19:26 IrmaCalyx G'day all
19:26 chris i like the no new database tables or columns rule too
19:26 thd yes: I realised that hdl_laptop1 was not advancing the agenda as soon as I pressed enter
19:26 hdl_laptop1 i was wondering when this text should be updated in mailman.
19:27 gmcharlt I'll let nengard know about the welcome message
19:27 gmcharlt of course, anybody is free to proposed ideas or wording on the wiki page
19:27 gmcharlt does anybody have a serious objection to sending this message out monthly?
19:28 gmcharlt in addition to having the text be part of the welcome message?
19:28 slef no, especially if it is combined with the "mailman day" emails
19:28 brendan no objection here --
19:28 brendan ++
19:28 sekjal sounds like a good plan
19:28 hdl_laptop1 except that usually ppl only read the 1st message then throw it to dustbin ;)
19:28 chris thats why monthly reminders are good :)
19:29 gmcharlt we can only lead our horses to the water
19:29 _eric_b I suggest to place in the email how to search the archived mails... :)
19:29 hdl_laptop1 k for me.
19:29 thd my horse is thirsty
19:29 hdl_laptop1 nabble
19:29 _eric_b hdl: agree
19:30 gmcharlt we could also change the footer that the mailing list adds
19:30 chris good idea _eric_b ... quick write it on the wiki :)
19:30 slef gmcharlt: careful not to make footer too long
19:31 gmcharlt yeah, I was thinking of combining the currently first two lines, adding a line for a link to a search archive, ending up with no net changes in the number of lines in the footer
19:31 wizzyrea a "Search the Archives: <link> would suffice I think
19:31 hdl_laptop1 adding a link to that page could be nice ;)
19:31 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1++
19:32 gmcharlt ok
19:32 gmcharlt shall we move on to 3.0.x (don't worry, we can have general discussion after we go through the formal agenda items)
19:33 jwagner One more point on the welcome message?
19:33 gmcharlt sure
19:33 jwagner I'd also suggest adding to the welcome/monthly message links to such things as the online manual site, bugzilla, the wiki -- whatever someone new would find most helpful.
19:33 gmcharlt jwagner: agreed
19:34 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: ready to give a 3.0.x update?
19:34 hdl_laptop1 so.
19:35 hdl_laptop1 I am late, but I have been quite busy
19:36 hdl_laptop1 trying to cherry-pick HEAD commits on 3.0.x
19:36 hdl_laptop1 I have at the moment 260 commits on my queue.
19:36 chris yoicks
19:36 hdl_laptop1 and a branch that one could want to test.
19:36 chris do you need some help with that?
19:37 hdl_laptop1 i have already applied all those 260  commits.
19:37 chris ahhh
19:37 hdl_laptop1 187 are still apppart :
19:37 hdl_laptop1 holds and branchtransfer limits, and syndetics and LT stuff mainly
19:38 hdl_laptop1 But I think that I am getting something quite interesting now.
19:38 chris i can help with testing
19:38 hdl_laptop1 I have not pushed them because I want the branch to be tested.
19:38 hdl_laptop1 And nicolas and laurence will certainly help me.
19:39 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: is the branch in a publicly available git repo? if so, URL could be added, or could fetch a clone periodically
19:40 hdl_laptop1 at the moment, it is on a biblibre gitosis, which could be open with ssh keys.
19:40 gmcharlt are ssh keys need to just fetch from it?
19:41 mdhafen though some say passing around a private key is evil, you could setup a gitosis key with read access, and pass around that private key.  I think that would work at least.
19:41 hdl_laptop1 right now i thik so.
19:42 hdl_laptop1 mmm... I can create a new project that would contain that branch only.
19:42 hdl_laptop1 with read access.
19:42 chris you could push it to .. or github etc if you wanted to let people clone it without needing a key
19:43 mdhafen or there's the git-daemon option
19:43 gmcharlt or better, link via
19:43 mdhafen yeah, make a private key on, and do regular pulls from there on a separate branch
19:43 hdl_laptop1 can you explain ?
19:43 hdl_laptop1 link via ?
19:43 gmcharlt e.g., push to a new koha-hdl.git or git-biblibre.git hosted on
19:44 hdl_laptop1 so you would create a new git repo on and I would push on it then ?
19:44 hdl_laptop1 fine for me.
19:45 gmcharlt ok
19:45 gmcharlt let me know what you want it called
19:45 gmcharlt and I'll init it and set up gitosis so that you can push to it
19:45 chris hdl_laptop1: how far away do you think a string freeze is?
19:45 hdl_laptop1 koha-maintenance.git
19:46 hdl_laptop1 I think I am really close to that.
19:46 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: ok
19:46 chris excellent, let me know when you think its good to go, and i will regen and msgmerge the .po files and let all the translators know
19:46 hdl_laptop1 In fact, i hope it should already be freezed.
19:47 slef Aside to new joiners - I've added a "Read the meeting so far..." link to the start of[…]etingnotes09apr07
19:47 hdl_laptop1 But I prefer to test updating french strings first to tell you.
19:47 chris hdl_laptop1: cool, just say the word whenever you think it's ready
19:48 hdl_laptop1 chris: I wall.
19:48 slef Can we semi-automate branches?  At least get the requests to its maintainers in a ready-to-use form.
19:49 slef or "private" repos or whatever you want to call them
19:49 gmcharlt slef: sure
19:49 hdl_laptop1 as soon as I have posted the branch, i will send an email for testers.
19:49 gmcharlt first step would be pretty manual
19:50 slef sorry, this is a tangent... can we wiki it later?
19:50 gmcharlt i.e., who are you and what's your public key (for gitosis to control who gets to push to that particular repo)
19:50 hdl_laptop1 So I won't be able to release it before june.
19:50 gmcharlt ok
19:50 gmcharlt another other 3.0.2/3.0.x stuff?
19:50 hdl_laptop1 But then will come reconciliation branch.
19:51 hdl_laptop1 that gmcharlt and I will set up.
19:51 slef hdl_laptop1: reconciliation as in library reconciliation or git merging?
19:51 gmcharlt slef: git merging
19:51 hdl_laptop1 and test.
19:51 gmcharlt and ensuring a clean database & feature upgrade path from 3.0.x to 3.2
19:52 schuster Schuster - sitting in corner listening...
19:52 chris 3.0.2 should be the last 3.0.x release eh? barring a super bad bug that means an urgent 3.0.3 release eh
19:53 gmcharlt the calendar permits a 3.0.3
19:53 gmcharlt up to hdl_laptop1 , of course :)
19:53 chris :)
19:53 slef gmcharlt: I was just thinking that.  If 3.0.2 is June.
19:53 hdl_laptop1 I think it is urgent to release 3.0.2 and reconciliation branch
19:54 hdl_laptop1 before tough job for 3.2 is merged on HEAD.
19:54 gmcharlt yep
19:54 hdl_laptop1 acquisitions, item management and so on.
19:54 chris right
19:55 hdl_laptop1 maybe 3.0.3 could be quite near after 3.0.2
19:55 hdl_laptop1 I said June because translators should have some time to do translations.
19:56 chris i dont think there will be many changes, so it shouldn't take too long
19:56 chris (translation wise)
19:56 chris but always good to give them time
19:57 hdl_laptop1 But feature and bug tracking freeze for 3.0.2 should be done in the next two weeks.
19:57 hdl_laptop1 Then it would be time for reconciliation and 3.0.3
19:58 chris cya in a bit reed
19:59 hdl_laptop1 and then 3.2
19:59 chris (reed works with me)
19:59 chris cool
19:59 hdl_laptop1 does that sound sound gmcharlt ?
19:59 gmcharlt positively euphonious
19:59 slef hdl_laptop1: as you probably know, we've a 3.0.x.c branch.  Do you want me to submit patches against 3.0.x or concentrate on sending to HEAD and letting you cherry-pick?
20:00 gmcharlt nom nom nom
20:00 hdl_laptop1 all i did was cherry picking.
20:00 gmcharlt agree with hdl_laptop1
20:00 hdl_laptop1 So I would say please send on HEAD.
20:01 hdl_laptop1 And But post bug # on it.
20:01 slef from memory, it's mostly new features... I'm trying to get any bugfixes out first
20:01 slef 2287 being the first
20:01 hdl_laptop1 (1st line)
20:02 slef ok
20:02 hdl_laptop1 and then headline of the bug.
20:02 hdl_laptop1 Now that bugzilla can accept emails, should be prety easy to send patches to it.
20:02 hdl_laptop1 so that the patch is attached to the bug.
20:02 slef I'll ask about that under the next item.
20:02 thd hdl_laptop1: does only cherry picking mean that you have not or do not intend to add from the 3.0.x or 3.0,x,c branches on the main repository?
20:03 slef thd: clarification: 3.0.x.c is only in our co-op's repo (which is what the c is for)
20:03 hdl_laptop1 sorry ?
20:03 thd slef: I was wondering about the c
20:04 atz thd: cherry picking means taking from patches submitted at HEAD and applying them to 3.0.x
20:04 hdl_laptop1 3.0.x will still be the official maintenance branch.
20:04 hdl_laptop1 koha-maintenance will be out there only for testing purpose.
20:04 mdhafen if there is a patch that applies only to 3.0.x (unlikely) sending them to the patches list should be ok still.  Just make sure to include [3.0.x] in the heading
20:05 thd hdl_laptop1: If I add patches against the 3.0.x branch will you have those changes or are you only taking from HEAD?
20:06 atz thd: is there a reason they shouldn't be in HEAD?
20:06 hdl_laptop1 the fact is that the more HEAD and 3.0.x diverge, the harder it will be to guarantee that your patch will be preserved from one version to another.
20:07 mdhafen for example the aqui rewrite
20:07 thd atz: not at this point but there have been reasons in the past why one would have two different patches or why a patch would only be relevant to stable but not to a future development release
20:08 slef aside - can someone (gmcharlt?) lengthen the login time on please?  I seem to be booted out rather too easily.
20:08 chris if its not relevant to a future release, then the case is moot, it doesnt need to be on HEAD
20:08 thd atz: hdl_laptop1 described the issue well as they diverge
20:08 hdl_laptop1 thd : then I think that mdhafen's suggestion sould be used.
20:08 atz thd: hdl_laptop1 described why your changes should go to HEAD first
20:09 atz (exceptional circumstances notwithstanding)
20:09 gmcharlt slef: increased timeout from 900 to 3600 seconds
20:09 hdl_laptop1 I think that we underestimate the goodness of topic branches
20:10 thd atz hdl_laptop1: I have a contradictory messages
20:10 hdl_laptop1 Some LLers and chris did publicize their branches.
20:10 hdl_laptop1 and i think it could be a good practise.
20:10 slef gmcharlt: thanks. if you're still logged in, is it's clock accurate? Didn't feel like 15mins
20:11 gmcharlt slef: seems accurate - let me know if the increased timeout has an effect
20:11 gmcharlt if not, may be issue with dokuwiki's openid plugin
20:12 slef ok, end of digression for now ;)
20:12 chris ack attacked by a 2year old with a soccer ball, brb
20:12 slef I've updated[…]od_commit_message with the branch-tagging idea
20:13 slef (and also remembered that section of the page myself - sorry for recent ignorance of it)
20:13 hdl_laptop1 is brackets the correct tag.
20:13 gmcharlt slef: "bug 1234" or "bug1234" or whatever is better than "[bug 1234]" - git-am strips anything in brackets in subject line when patch is applied
20:13 slef yikes
20:13 hdl_laptop1 I saw that it should rather be () and not []
20:13 gmcharlt bracket for "[3.0.x]" is fine, as it's redundant once patch is applied
20:14 gmcharlt anyway, I think we're ambling towards the bugzilla topic of the agenda
20:14 slef go for it
20:14 gmcharlt a very brief summary of the big proposals from KohaCon is on the wiki
20:14 gmcharlt[…]etingnotes09apr07
20:15 gmcharlt schuster can speak to this better
20:15 gmcharlt but big point among many Koha users
20:15 gmcharlt is desire to have a process whereby people interested in an enhnacement
20:15 gmcharlt can coordinate arrangement funding or person-time to do it
20:15 gmcharlt particularly for big projects
20:15 gmcharlt initial suggestion was to use a Google spreadsheet or the like
20:16 gmcharlt but general agreement during that KohaCon meeting
20:16 thd atz hdl_laptop1: mdhafen suggests sending 3.0.x patches against 3.0.x as [3.0.x].  atz: suggests sending almost all patches against HEAD only unless they cannot be.
20:16 gmcharlt is that bugzilla is probably a better place to try first
20:16 gmcharlt thd: patches should be against HEAD unless something is truly 3.0.x specific, or if a particular file(s) have diverged enough that you need a patch for HEAD and a patch for 3.0.x
20:16 mdhafen thd: both suggestions are applicable here.  hdl seems willing to resolve merge conficts.
20:17 gmcharlt so specific ideas re using bugs database for that purpose include
20:18 gmcharlt turning bug voting
20:18 gmcharlt or establshing consitent tagging
20:18 gmcharlt in conjunction with developers and vendors putting in an effort to put significant features as enhancement bugs
20:19 gmcharlt in addition to use of wiki for RFCs
20:19 slef Why bug voting?  Squeaky wheel syndrome and rule of the mob?
20:20 gmcharlt more of a mechanism for interested users to find out what each other cares about
20:20 chris squeaky wheel does actually have merit in a lot of cases
20:20 gmcharlt obviously to actual get a change done, ultimately somebody has to pony up effort, time, or money
20:20 atz slef: KohaCon users were unaware of each others' interests in given bugs, fixes, etc.
20:21 mdhafen yeah, level of interest in a feature can be a big motivator for a developer (myself included)
20:21 schuster Squeaky wheel also provides people to figure out who might have money to co sponsor...
20:21 slef atz: doesn't a cc show that?
20:22 schuster Many users were unaware of bugzilla for enhancements.
20:22 atz slef: indeed, wizzyrea recommended that option
20:22 sekjal I got the impression at KohaCon that there is some concern about users and developers drifting apart
20:22 Sharon I 2nd Schuster, we need a way to facilitate co-sponsorships
20:22 hdl_laptop1 mmm... but then maybe only the higher interest bugs would be coped with by big companies and the other ones could be left alone.
20:23 gmcharlt I've no problem using a CC instead of bug voting as such, but I think users woudl still want a report of bugs ordered by number of CCs
20:23 slef Sharon: we ( support which I think I mentioned to schuster
20:23 thd slef: a CC might show that if there were clear and obvious instructions that CC should be used for that purpose
20:23 gmcharlt and for something where somebody is actively looking for cosponsors
20:23 gmcharlt a bugzilla tag could be useful
20:23 slef thd: what else would adding yourself to the CC on a bug show apart from interest?
20:23 schuster yes you did, but was waiting for after KohaCon to see what happens
20:24 jwagner I lost track of how many times I visited bugzilla before I even NOTICED the cc function.  Maybe I'm blind as a bat, but usability is an issue here.
20:24 skushner Why not through Kudos, and other interest groups to share development ideas and commitments?
20:24 slef Can someone tell me a bugzilla with voting enabled, please?  I'm not seeing it on
20:25 atz skushner: kudos group isn't incorporated yet, among other things
20:25 slef jwagner: I'm not a fan of bugzilla's user interface, but I'm equally not a fan of changing bug tracker :-/
20:25 schuster Voting I think comes later in the game - when there might be a user group with money to sponsor development projects.
20:25 mick_laptop what version of bz are you complaining about?
20:25 hdl_laptop1 skushner: because you have many localized user groups
20:25 jwagner Another problem with using KUDOS is that it's US/North America, but development needs to be coordinated worldwide.
20:25 mick_laptop the newer versions have gotten a lot nicer
20:25 slef mick_laptop: whatever's on ;-)
20:25 wizzyrea I think it's definitely better to have the payers (libraries using koha) and the payees (developers making koha) looking at the same database of bugs and enhancement requests
20:26 gmcharlt skushner: I thnk the users groups are a valid forum for sponsorship arrangements, but one of many
20:26 wizzyrea rather than an additional place for everyone to check
20:26 hdl_laptop1 And maybe interest is wider than your language community
20:26 chris wizzyrea++
20:26 hdl_laptop1 But it would also be the problem with
20:27 skushner So..sync the servers worldwide, but have regional groups too, like Kudos Northeast, etc..
20:27 hdl_laptop1 But is a good starting point.
20:27 hdl_laptop1 imho
20:27 thd slef: I merely meant that users need to know that is the way to express interest where it may not be obvious to them
20:27 Sharon Paul brought up the language issue a kohacon
20:27 slef thd: oic
20:27 slef Sharon: Il n'y aucun. ;)
20:28 schuster If we put a concerted effort into "cleanup" bugzilla and a "template" of how to create an enhancement - that would at least give users new and old an opportunity to see what is under development or consideration.
20:28 hdl_laptop1 schuster++
20:29 chris local groups could talk amongst themselves, then file an enhancement on
20:29 wizzyrea actually, is a really nice bugtracker
20:29 reed missed part of the conversation but -- bugzilla is always going to go daunting to new users however you skin it
20:29 gmcharlt slef: has voting enabled
20:29 slef wizzyrea: I really dislike on both usability and philosophy angles.
20:29 slef gmcharlt: thanks
20:30 davi wizzyrea, is controlled by Canonical. And they refuse to publish the source code. They want to control the system
20:31 wizzyrea fair enough
20:31 wizzyrea (I just like the nub friendly interface)
20:31 slef wizzyrea: in case you didn't know, creates bug trackers for things which are maintained by other people who don't want to use it.
20:31 gmcharlt as far as specific action items go
20:31 gmcharlt "cleaning up" bugzilla is fine
20:31 slef so bugs get reported there which will never get fixed.
20:32 gmcharlt as is going over documenation (on wiki) for filing bugs and improving it
20:32 slef davi: they say they'll publish some of it eventually.  But that's an aside.
20:32 wizzyrea (just let it go... bad idea, I get it)
20:32 davi slef, anyway the hosting and users data will follow controlled by them
20:32 gmcharlt encouraging people to use CC lists is a good regardless of anything else
20:33 gmcharlt bug voting we could do as an experiment
20:33 davi gmcharlt, I would like be assigned a bug to fix. An easy one
20:33 gmcharlt as far as the kohala bugs database is concerned, I assume it has a public URL, hdl_laptop1?
20:34 jwagner Along the lines of the earlier discussion about monthly emails with useful info, can the intro page to bugzilla have some general info for new users?  Like how to report bugs, use the cc feature, etc.?
20:34 gmcharlt if so we need to make sure that it's linked to from the wiki and other places more or less as prominently as
20:34 hdl_laptop1
20:34 hdl_laptop1 but it is only biblibre at the moment.
20:34 slef gmcharlt: ok to experiment, but define "success" and end-of-trial before we start
20:34 hdl_laptop1 kohala has no public bug tracker.
20:35 richard morning
20:35 slef we've a similar "RT for" but we'll refer to as appropriate
20:35 schuster At Koha con there were 264 "enhancements" as I remember - I was working on a proposal to get a committee together to "review" them.
20:35 slef Barca scored!
20:35 gmcharlt well, success ultimately is going to be determined by whether users see bugzilla as the place to go to for dev requests
20:35 schuster Posting info to the koha-discuss/dev etc... for volunteers etc...
20:35 gmcharlt and more importantly, a communication place for ensuring that requests get funding or done
20:36 hdl_laptop1 schuster++
20:36 gmcharlt re voting in particular
20:36 Sharon I like the CC option because it gives funders contact information for other potential funders
20:36 wizzyrea yea, I can see an email to the list saying "i've proposed X enhancement, bug #XXXX, please check it out
20:36 gmcharlt it ultimately depends on whether somebody actually does something with the top vote-getting bugs
20:37 hdl_laptop1 there is now brasilian, portuguese, german and french speaking list.
20:37 schuster Are we voting on BUGS or Enhancements or both?
20:37 gmcharlt schuster: it would be both
20:37 hdl_laptop1 maybe it could be good to spread also news to those ppl.
20:37 schuster Just looking for clarification.
20:38 gmcharlt re timeline for experiment
20:38 schuster hdl_lpatop1 - yes it would
20:38 slef hdl_laptop1: until we get something more formal, ask chris for active translators perhaps?
20:38 gmcharlt since it generally takes a few months for a group of disparate libraries to organize a cosponsorship arrangment
20:38 thd hdl_laptop1: Is the Brazilian list different from the Portuguese list?
20:38 gmcharlt I think should last for six months
20:38 schuster There's a translator list correct?
20:38 chris yes thd
20:38 hdl_laptop1 thd: yes.
20:38 wizzyrea maybe the name is the problem, it needs branding... like, or something
20:38 skushner If it was put in one place, everyone would know to look there. Pls. no more email lists.
20:39 hdl_laptop1 they asked for it.
20:39 hdl_laptop1 schuster: yes.
20:39 slef hdl_laptop1: where is the german list now?[…]/koha-i18n-german seems idle
20:39 gmcharlt but perhaps emphasize CCing
20:39 thd hdl_laptop1 chris: Brazilian and Portuguese have different email lists or merely different translations?
20:39 chris both
20:40 gmcharlt wizzyrea: it would break a lot of links to *move* to another domain
20:40 hdl_laptop1 slef: yes quite idle
20:40 gmcharlt but if it needs a different name to encourage people to think of it as more than just a defects database
20:40 davi thd, I think the Brazilian and Portuguese list should be the same due to the language differences are minimal
20:40 gmcharlt sure
20:40 slef gmcharlt: could redirect to a search for enhancements
20:40 hdl_laptop1 but some german speaking ppl are testing koha atm
20:40 wizzyrea slef++
20:40 gmcharlt but I think simply promoting its use will go a long way
20:40 chris davi: cultural imperialist :-)
20:40 davi chris, no comment :)
20:41 slef chris: official language of Koha will be Spanish. I'm learning it.
20:41 schuster gmcharlt - I agree.
20:41 hdl_laptop1 thd davi : brasil is MARC21, portugal UNIMARC.
20:41 gmcharlt slef: didn't you get the memo - the official language will be Klingon
20:41 davi hdl_laptop1, ah, I did not know
20:42 davi thd, Is the MARC21 more used in Brazil than the UNIMARC format?
20:42 schuster So I see three things that need to happen - group to create a "template" for entering sponsored enhancements - tag?
20:42 gmcharlt davi: is[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2616 the sort of bug you're looking for?
20:42 schuster Template for entering wishlist enhancements - tag
20:42 thd davi: In the world of US imperialist influence MARC 21 is more used
20:43 cait there is some interest in Koha in Germany atm - but translation list was silent in the last weeks
20:43 davi gmcharlt,  looking at it
20:43 davi thd, thanks for the information
20:43 schuster Group to review existing enhancements to determine if they have been coded or no longer of interest by individual creating the enhancement.
20:44 skushner What about a threaded forum to discuss enhancements/bugs amongst the user groups to facilitate the conversation..."Like, I'm thinking of sponsoring X"..before it gets "comitted" to Bugzilla, or wherever?
20:44 thd davi: MARC 21 is a more comprehensive larger format but not necessarily better for being based on US MARC the first way of doing MARC
20:44 davi gmcharlt, Yes, that can be an start.  What is the process to fix a bug. Should I send a patch to the mailing list or will you allow me to directly commit to the Git repository?
20:45 gmcharlt skushner: actually, it would be better to use bugzilla for the discussions - it doesn't have a threaded comments, but it does have comments
20:45 schuster skushner - I don't want another list personally - you could enter the enhancement - and publish the # to discuss and people could login to bugzilla and comment etc...
20:45 chris patches all the way davi
20:45 davi chris, ok
20:45 chris to .. that way lots of eyes get to see them
20:45 wizzyrea gmcharlt and schuster+++++
20:45 davi ok
20:45 chris there is a good page on the wiki about it
20:46 schuster Again keeping all the discussion for the developer in one place once it does get sponsored.
20:46 gmcharlt and there's no reason to over formalize posting an idea to
20:46 slef added section below[…]ou_have_a_new_bug mentioning CC
20:46 gmcharlt just look for duplicates, then add the idea
20:46 wizzyrea hehe, my experience is that if you miss a duplicate, it won't take long for someone else to point it out
20:47 Brooke thicker skin?
20:47 schuster If people are concerned about adding an enhancement they might post to discuss first to see if anyone already knows about an enhancement etc that does X
20:47 slef Brooke: at times you need rhino hide *rolls eyes*
20:47 chris imho its better to have a duplicate than fear of a duplicate stopping anything being posted at all
20:48 schuster wizzyrea - ++ - I believe then someone gmcharlt? merges/links?
20:48 Brooke /agree
20:48 gmcharlt schuster: yeah, you could, but since it's cheap to create, merge, and close bugs in bugzilla, it's no problem
20:48 gmcharlt schuster: anybody can identify and merge duplicate bugs
20:48 schuster Cool - I still think an example/template so people know what type of information needs to be added when they create the enhancement.
20:48 gmcharlt schuster: agreed
20:49 slef hello - bugzilla docs are back online - thanks to $WHOEVER
20:49 schuster Can we add a category that says "sponsored" similar to enhancement so people can enter the items they have already sponsored?
20:49 wizzyrea yea, and if you have something very lengthy, like a rfc to post, *that* should go on the wiki, and be referenced in the bug
20:49 wizzyrea enhancement/bug*
20:49 slef schuster: I suspect something like PATCH-Sent but Sponsored might be better
20:49 schuster wizzyrea +++
20:50 schuster for those of us that don't code - but want to see what others have "paid for" already Sponsored makes more sense...
20:51 schuster Some sponsorships have been paid, but we may not see the coding until next summer...
20:51 gmcharlt slef: I think a custom field might be better - sponsorship status can be orthognal to priority
20:51 Brooke that used to be on the roadmap, back in the day
20:51 wizzyrea custom field: I was just thinking that
20:52 slef gmcharlt: you're right. forgot it was in priority. also orthogonal to severity.
20:52 slef gmcharlt: while we're simplifying: does anyone use Hardware meaningfully?
20:53 schuster I don't know the back end so whatever you all feel works - that I can figure out how to extract data from!  LOL!
20:53 wizzyrea if you do a custom sponsorship field, could you have Sponsored, Looking for partners, or other sponsorship related statuses?
20:53 gmcharlt slef: very, very raraely
20:53 hdl_laptop1 also orthogonal to time requested.
20:53 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yes
20:53 wizzyrea I think that would be VERY helpful
20:53 schuster Oh wizzyrea - +++ and hdl_laptop1+++
20:54 slef ok, other question before I move rooms: how does the email-to-bugzilla feature work?
20:54 gmcharlt slef: I'll check
20:54 hdl_laptop1 schuster: orig est. is your friend
20:54 schuster I was thinking in the Sponsorship template it might indicate a tentative released to client info...
20:55 gmcharlt I've just added a sponsorship custom field
20:56 gmcharlt label on the bug form is 'change sponsored?'
20:56 chris ok, im going to have to go get ready and head into work, will read back over the logs
20:56 gmcharlt current valid values are blank, seeking cosponsors, and sponsored
20:56 atz later chris
20:56 gmcharlt on the bug form, it shows up in the top details box, below the horizontal line under the URL field
20:56 slef davi: can you remember gnuherds sponsorship statuses or shall I check?
20:57 wizzyrea gmcharlt: ++ perfect
20:57 davi slef, what do you mean by "sponsorship statuses"?
20:58 schuster later chris you are very valuable...;)
20:58 wizzyrea yes, travel safely
20:58 wizzyrea we require your braaaaiiinnnnsss
20:58 wizzyrea sorry, kind of had a zombie moment there
20:58 slef gmcharlt: other status is seeking workers I guess?
20:59 wizzyrea Ooh, yea... seeking developer or something
20:59 Brooke whole picture wise
20:59 slef davi: never mind looked it up
20:59 davi ok
20:59 Brooke I'm thinking one of the most nagging questions y'all get asked as devs is when is 3.2 coming out?
21:00 Brooke is there a way to roll all of this stuff into a thermometer either on the roadmap or in bugzilla to show progress.
21:00 gmcharlt Brooke: october
21:00 mdhafen I don't hear that.  My librarians don't want another (painful) upgrade ;)
21:00 atz the "are we there yet?" of project management
21:00 Brooke after folks lock in features
21:00 wizzyrea atz: lulz
21:00 gmcharlt slef: added a seeking dev value
21:00 slef Brooke: see roadmap3.2 on the wiki
21:00 gmcharlt so blank - don't care
21:00 gmcharlt slef, Brooke - which needs updating
21:01 slef gmcharlt: since an hour ago?
21:01 gmcharlt seeking cosponsors - want partners
21:01 schuster gmcharlt yep.
21:01 wizzyrea gmcharlt: that is epic win re: change sponsored
21:01 jwagner er, Have Gnu, Will Travel?  Sorry, getting a litty fuzzy.
21:01 gmcharlt seeking dev - have money / boxes of chocolate, want somebody to do it yesterday
21:02 gmcharlt sponsored - funding and dev lined up together
21:02 gmcharlt wizzyrea: but will the kittens work for Koha?
21:02 atz gmcharlt: no, in my experience.
21:02 wizzyrea dunno, I'm pretty good with the spray bottle
21:02 atz all they do is spam chat
21:02 gmcharlt slef: in terms of details, anyway
21:02 gmcharlt slef: but thanks for putting that up
21:03 schuster OK end of day...  Gotta go pickup 4 year old...  Great discussion...  When's the next one?
21:03 gmcharlt schuster: in a months time, I woudl say
21:03 schuster Remember "free like a kitten"...:)
21:04 schuster Great.
21:04 gmcharlt slef: re bugzilla to gitweb links - both directions, or which one do you care about the most?
21:05 schuster I'll work on getting my outline for a committee to review together and send it to Koha-Dev for comment?
21:05 Brooke ftr neither the 3.0 roadmap or the 3.2 roadmap have what I'm talking about, but the 3.0 is closer.
21:05 pianohacker i has a marc flavor?
21:05 schuster Then maybe next week I can work on putting together a document about documenting a sponsored development and send it out to koha-dev for comment as well?
21:06 wizzyrea I maded you a patch, but git eated it
21:06 hdl_laptop1 thx schuster.
21:06 schuster wizzyrea - must have been a long day...  too many kittens?
21:06 gmcharlt schuster: go for it, but also be sure to check out the bugzilla page on the wiki
21:06 wizzyrea I just like levity ^.^
21:06 jdavidb wizzyrea++ after git ate two of mine on my repo.  
21:06 schuster Yes will do that before I do anything...  Moving forward!  I feel progress in motion!
21:07 Sharon Brooke where's the 3.0 roadmap on the wiki?  can't find
21:07 slef gmcharlt:  I guess two most useful are having something to --cc on a git send-email command, and some link from bugs to gitweb when it gets pushed
21:07 hdl_laptop1 oh the changing branch syndrome jdavidb and wizzyrea
21:07 Brooke[…]opment:roadmap3.0
21:07 gmcharlt slef: ok
21:07 Sharon ty
21:08 jdavidb hdl_laptop1: mine was plain old clumsiness.  Didn't realize what branch I was *on*, and merged, then had to unravel and try again..  It didn't eat them, but it nibbled a little.
21:08 hdl_laptop1 slef: imho, could be good to indicate branch patch has been pushed on.
21:08 gmcharlt re the two smaller cleanups (creating new product for website changes) and merging/cleaning up the dropdown for Koha version
21:08 gmcharlt any comments?
21:09 atz i agree w/ the idea, but in practice i don't want an extra click
21:09 wizzyrea um... make it so, #1?
21:09 atz wizzyrea: it changes the workflow of bugzilla if more than 1 product is defined
21:10 atz namely, it gives you a product selector page on adding a new ticket
21:10 atz so it' s a toss up for me
21:11 hdl_laptop1 but from what I read, now we can create/update bugs on bugzilla via emails can't we ?
21:11 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: it needs to be tested, but should be possible
21:12 atz not sure about creation knowing what "product" to select
21:12 hdl_laptop1 atz: wouldn't it be possible to add a direct link to the product ?
21:13 hdl_laptop1 or the product as subdomain ?
21:13 wizzyrea hdl_laptop1: I was wondering that myself
21:13 hdl_laptop1 ?
21:13 atz hdl_laptop1: probably some kind of link?product=koha
21:13 wizzyrea so it wouldn't *have* to change your workflow...
21:13 hdl_laptop1 so it would be a new bookmark.
21:14 wizzyrea er, I guess we don't know that for sure
21:14 hdl_laptop1 But no chang in your workflow.
21:14 hdl_laptop1 needs testing on a white box.
21:14 gmcharlt[…]fox&format=guided does work
21:15 gmcharlt so we most likely can put in two 'new bug' links in the header - new Koha bug, new 'other' bug
21:15 gmcharlt as well as the homepage
21:15 atz cool, then i'm down with that
21:15 gmcharlt re pre < 2.2 versions
21:16 gmcharlt I assume nobody's stepping up with a burning desire to fix or report Koha 1.1 bugs
21:16 gmcharlt ok, well since we've already spent 2.25 hours at this
21:17 gmcharlt does anybody want to say anything quickly about KohaCon?
21:17 hdl_laptop1 I donot even have a 1.1 version up.
21:17 Brooke aw come on, let's go for an even 2.5 ;)
21:17 gmcharlt thanks to schuster and the Plano ISD for being excellant hosts
21:17 Brooke needs more alcohol next time
21:17 pianohacker schuster++
21:17 atz very successful event
21:17 rhcl Where will KohaCon 2010 be held?
21:17 jwagner I found Kohacon extremely helpful, and especially the devel session.
21:17 calyx Schuster++
21:18 pianohacker jwagner: agreed
21:18 Brooke I think it should be in NZ if we're going to hold one next year
21:18 wizzyrea Yes, and I had a great time meeting most of you, is fun to imagine you all sitting at your computers thinking koha.
21:18 Brooke they should have da anniversary rights
21:18 hdl_laptop1 to celebrate 10th year Koha
21:18 Sharon we 2nd that and are willing to pay our own way to go!
21:18 Brooke and we owe chris a new year's party...
21:18 jwagner Hmmm.  How to sell a trip to NZ at company expense....
21:19 wizzyrea lulz and crunchy jif peanut butter + goldfish
21:19 wizzyrea (crackers)
21:20 jwagner More seriously, I'd really be interested in some small regional sessions -- easier for various people in various areas to travel.  There was some discussion on the list a bit ago.  Hope things keep happening there.
21:20 Brooke This is an international project, and I am being serious
21:20 Brooke rare that that is
21:21 rhcl Regional Sessions +1
21:21 jdavidb I would suggest Abilene, TX, for one some time....naah!  Nevermind.  NZ sounds great to me, but it'd be a bear to get to, I 'spect.  
21:21 jdavidb Regionals++
21:21 Brooke the pickle with regional sessions is that they have to be held so as not to conflict with large national gatherings.
21:21 jwagner Brooke, didn't mean no big conf (esp in NZ), but I don't want that to be the only one.
21:21 Sharon We will advertise the next KS regional users group meeting for adjoining states
21:22 wizzyrea yea, you're all welcome at our keggers
21:22 wizzyrea Koha explorer's Group. What were you thinking?
21:22 rhcl Yummy. We'll be there.
21:22 pianohacker wizzyrea: You enjoy that too much
21:22 wizzyrea ;)
21:22 hdl_laptop1 ok guys, 23:30 here.
21:22 wizzyrea It's a kegger even you can enjoy, pianohacker
21:23 slef hdl_laptop1: your clock is 8 mins fast ;)
21:23 pianohacker There's some libraries moving to Koha in Colorado, maybe I can convince some of them to go
21:23 Brooke nice
21:23 pianohacker wizzyrea: hehe
21:23 wizzyrea pianohacker ++
21:23 rhcl Denver! Great place except for driving in downtown.
21:23 calyx Thanks for the good meeting - Time to start my day. Cheers all.
21:23 hdl_laptop1 I think regional session is good, but worldwide is also good to get some more general view.
21:24 pianohacker yup
21:24 gmcharlt ok, well to accommodate people who have this really strange desire for sleep, let's call this meeting adjourned
21:24 gmcharlt :)
21:24 gmcharlt thanks all
21:24 Sharon ty
21:24 wizzyrea thanks everybody
21:24 pianohacker agreed, good night and good morning
21:24 wizzyrea good ideas :)
21:24 jwagner Useful session -- thanks all.
21:24 hdl_laptop1 thanks all and gmcharlt.
21:25 hdl_laptop1 pls keep me informed when I can push my testing branch
21:25 slef night all
21:25 davi night
21:26 hdl_laptop1 good night
21:26 _eric_b bonne nuit hdl!
21:26 gmcharlt g'night
21:28 hdl_laptop1 bonne nuit _eric_b
21:34 cait good night everybody
21:34 Colin Bye all
21:36 chris re NZ, im sure I can swing a good deal on a venue (read no cost to attend) but yes the airfare is the gotcha
21:39 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: if you're still here, koha-maintenance.git exists and gitosis should let you push to it
21:39 gmcharlt ping me tonight / tomorrow morning if you run into problems
21:42 rhcl chris: I didn't know you had a blog. Gee, you're world famous.
21:42 chris heh
21:42 chris in nz
21:43 chris (thats ad advert here, L&P world famous, in new zealand)
21:45 chris rhcl: when you have inlaws continents away, a blog is a good way to keep the grandparents up to date :)
21:47 davi gmcharlt, I think it will take me two months to fix that bug, depending on my work load. I hope there is not urgent?
21:47 rhcl OK, so I'm confused. Librarything says you live in Connecticut, but everything else makes it sound like you're in NZ. So which is it?
21:48 chris im not chris catalfo
21:48 chris does that remove confusion :)
21:48 rhcl What? My tech services director lied to me AGAIN?
21:48 chris im chris cormack, and i have never lived in connecticut
21:48 chris :)
21:49 atz rhcl: if you think that is confusing, you should try working w/ both of them at the same time
21:49 chris
21:49 chris atz you should add yourself to this :)
21:49 chris and you too rhcl
21:49 atz w/ usernames  crc and cfc
21:49 chris heh
21:50 atz you have to know middle initials to tell them apart
21:50 rhcl Too much.
21:59 gmcharlt davi: no problem, that bug isn't urgent
22:01 davi ok, good to know. I hope fix it in two or three months. I will use that task to get more used to the Koha source code
22:01 davi and at the same time contribute something.
22:01 chris best way to do it
22:04 pianohacker rhcl: Are you in the denver area?
22:17 chris mason: you about?
22:48 reed fyi - there's almost always sub $1000 (US) flights at
22:48 reed but not during holidays, etc
22:48 reed and not too much advance notice or too little
22:48 reed 8 wks advance is about right
22:49 reed so if next kohacon is in wellington then it might be good to find out when those windows are and try to do it then
23:00 chris ohh good idea reed
23:01 chris hehe yeah, we know how to get the good deals to the US, ... not so much the other way
00:48 brendan hey chris -- the fire has gotten worse over the day...  afternoon winds kicked up ...  the fire looks four times as big as last night
00:53 brendan Jesusita Fire Rages “Out of Controlâ€?
00:53 brendan Afternoon Winds Blow Wildfire Toward Mission Canyon and East; Evac Orders and Warnings Expanded Dramatically
01:02 chris yikes
01:02 chris do you think you will need to evacuate?
01:02 brendan I'm upwind about 8.5 miles
01:03 brendan so for now... I'm good
01:03 brendan it's just so rapid...
01:04 chris yeah
01:04 brendan we're prepared. if need be
01:11 mason chris: back on now..
02:21 chris heya jo
02:21 Jo hey Chris
02:21 chris did you read the minutes/log from this mornings koha meeting?
02:21 Jo question for you: is it possible to make ccode a repeatable field
02:21 chris so an item can have more than one ccode?
02:21 Jo so that i can assign yep.
02:22 chris is that possible in marc?
02:22 atz Jo: no, it's one field in the DB
02:22 Jo so that a LP novel can appear in the advanced search in the LP and (rather than or) in the F lists
02:22 chris ahh we are working on a fix for that
02:22 Jo ok.
02:23 chris wont be in 3.0.x though
02:23 chris atz: i think the summary records will solve the problem jo is seeking to achieve
02:24 Jo i think the authorized values can be set to allow you to enter more than 1 (in patrons i think ...)
02:24 atz you can make other MARC fields governed by CCODE
02:24 atz but that doesn't put more CCODE fields in the dB
02:25 chris basically the problem is you have a book that you want to appear when someone searches LP (large print) and when they search for F (fiction)
02:25 Jo I am setting advanced search to CCode, but using itemtypes to arrange the collection. ccodes in adv search looks like a good way to cluster all related itemtypes iunto 1 search
02:25 Jo chris: exactly.
02:25 Jo at the moment i have to choose 1 or the other.
02:26 chris which i think we can solve with the summary records maybe
02:26 Jo ok.
02:26 Jo so for now, we'll stick with 1 ccode
02:26 Jo (in our brains i mean)
02:26 chris yep, you cant do more than one .. and i dont think you will be able to do more than one in the future, but you might be able to do see also/see instead type links
02:27 Jo Re lof from the koha meeting: would that be on the wiki?
02:27 chris yep
02:27 Jo ok.
02:27 Jo just double checking the mapping table
02:27 Jo to make sure I got it right!
02:27 Jo be 10 minutes
02:28 chris we will have the opportunity to fix it again if we get something wrong (i have scheduled a few test migrations) but as close as possible is a good start :)
02:28 Jo thanks Atz
02:28 atz np
02:28 Jo yepo.
02:28 chris jo, you have met atz before eh? he is a Joe too :)
02:29 chris different gender tho :)
02:29 Jo hehe - he has helped me on irc a number of times :)
02:29 chris he's good like that
03:31 Amit hi chris, brendan, mason
03:31 Amit good morning #koha
03:31 chris hi amit
03:32 Amit my team is on top delhi daredevils
03:32 chris excellent
03:39 mason morning amit
03:39 Amit heya mason
07:31 chris evening
07:32 kf morning chris
07:35 soul9 hello all
07:39 hdl_laptop hi chris and kf
07:41 hdl_laptop nice to see you yesterday kf. Were you not there any longer when i spoke about german lists ?
07:41 chris yes she said they had been quiet lately
07:43 kf sorry, meeting atm, bbl
07:43 hdl_laptop oh i hadnot realized that.
07:43 hdl_laptop But it is the problem with mailing lists,
07:44 hdl_laptop it all depends on the community.
07:45 chris *nod*
07:53 Amit chris; i m working on dari & pashto translation
07:54 chris excellent
07:55 Amit hi kf
07:55 kf back
07:55 kf I think its because there is no translation work atm
07:56 kf 3.0.1 is complete and we decided not to start with 3.2
07:56 chris should be 3.0.2 soon, but there wont be too many changes
07:57 chris and yes i think waiting for 3.2 is a good idea, as lots is still changing
07:57 kf our project is still not official - but i get mails asking about Koha - I think the interest will be great, once its announced
07:57 chris yay!
07:57 kf there is a library student doing a survey about koha
07:57 kf a library in bremen, one in hannover and one in stuttgart considering migration to koha
07:57 chris katrin kopf?
07:57 kf yes
07:58 chris she is writing up her results now i think
07:58 kf yes, i follow her on twitter
07:58 chris cool
07:58 kf I m really courious about the results
07:59 chris me too
07:59 kf hdl_laptop: you wrote yesterday about cherry picking holds to 3.0.2, does that mean the "holdability flag"?
08:00 chris hi paul_p :)
08:00 kf hi paul
08:00 paul_p hello all
08:00 kf i d really like to have that feature in a stable version before october ...
08:01 hdl_laptop I chose not to take in hold queues which adds a new table.
08:01 kf thats a no?
08:02 hdl_laptop kf: all the features which are in master version at the moment will be in reconciliation version on 3.0.3
08:02 chris which will definitely be out before october eh?
08:02 hdl_laptop should hopefully be issued in August.
08:02 chris happy happy joy joy :)
08:03 hdl_laptop in fact the sooner as possible kf ;)
08:03 chris i love we are releasing more often again :)
08:03 kf sounds great :)
08:03 kf thanks hdl
08:04 kf I d like to contribute more to Koha, but I cant atm
08:05 kf but I can translate those new mailing list mail to German when its ready
08:08 chris every little bit helps
08:08 chris often a small thing like that, makes a huge difference
08:09 kf I will add some German training materials later
08:09 chris cool
08:24 fredericd hello
08:25 hdl_laptop hello
08:25 kf hi frederic
08:25 chris hi fredericd
09:29 chris slef is going to town on the wiki :)
09:33 hdl_laptop town on ?
09:34 chris http://onlineslangdictionary.c[…]ion+of/go+to+town
09:37 kf new vocabulary - yay :)
10:13 soul9 anyone around using gentoo?
10:13 slef chris: We used to call that a WikiBender where I was
10:13 slef soul9: I used to until I tied it in knots. I might not be much help.
10:14 soul9 oh, well, i have some instructions and was wondering if anyone was in the position of taking a look at it..
10:14 chris i did for about 3 months in about 2005
10:14 soul9 :)
10:15 slef soul9: instructions?
10:15 soul9 yeah, for koha installation
10:15 soul9 anyways, to whoever wants to take a look: , feedback welcome :)
10:20 chris that looks commendably simple
10:49 mason soul9++
10:50 mason playman -a perl-experimental
10:50 mason paludis -s x-perl-experimental
10:51 mason they sound like like D&D characters
10:56 soul9 d&d?
10:57 soul9 ah, dungeon and dragons :D
10:58 kf lol
11:26 gmcharlt greetings #koha
11:27 slef 0726? hi gmcharlt
11:27 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: did you see my mention of koha-maintenance.git yesterday?
11:27 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt good morning.
11:28 hdl_laptop in an email ?
11:28 gmcharlt on IRC
11:28 gmcharlt anyway, koha-maintenance.git now exists and you shoudl be able to push to it
11:28 hdl_laptop ok thanks

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