Time Nick Message 11:28 hdl_laptop ok thanks 11:28 gmcharlt anyway, koha-maintenance.git now exists and you shoudl be able to push to it 11:28 gmcharlt on IRC 11:28 hdl_laptop in an email ? 11:27 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt good morning. 11:27 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: did you see my mention of koha-maintenance.git yesterday? 11:27 slef 0726? hi gmcharlt 11:26 gmcharlt greetings #koha 10:58 kf lol 10:57 soul9 ah, dungeon and dragons :D 10:56 soul9 d&d? 10:51 mason they sound like like D&D characters 10:50 mason paludis -s x-perl-experimental 10:50 mason playman -a perl-experimental 10:49 mason soul9++ 10:20 chris that looks commendably simple 10:15 soul9 anyways, to whoever wants to take a look: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=gentoo , feedback welcome :) 10:15 soul9 yeah, for koha installation 10:15 slef soul9: instructions? 10:14 soul9 :) 10:14 chris i did for about 3 months in about 2005 10:14 soul9 oh, well, i have some instructions and was wondering if anyone was in the position of taking a look at it.. 10:13 slef soul9: I used to until I tied it in knots. I might not be much help. 10:13 slef chris: We used to call that a WikiBender where I was 10:13 soul9 anyone around using gentoo? 09:37 kf new vocabulary - yay :) 09:34 chris http://onlineslangdictionary.com/definition+of/go+to+town 09:33 hdl_laptop town on ? 09:29 chris slef is going to town on the wiki :) 08:25 chris hi fredericd 08:25 kf hi frederic 08:25 hdl_laptop hello 08:24 fredericd hello 08:09 chris cool 08:09 kf I will add some German training materials later 08:08 chris often a small thing like that, makes a huge difference 08:08 chris every little bit helps 08:05 kf but I can translate those new mailing list mail to German when its ready 08:04 kf I d like to contribute more to Koha, but I cant atm 08:03 kf thanks hdl 08:03 kf sounds great :) 08:03 chris i love we are releasing more often again :) 08:03 hdl_laptop in fact the sooner as possible kf ;) 08:02 chris happy happy joy joy :) 08:02 hdl_laptop should hopefully be issued in August. 08:02 chris which will definitely be out before october eh? 08:02 hdl_laptop kf: all the features which are in master version at the moment will be in reconciliation version on 3.0.3 08:01 kf thats a no? 08:01 hdl_laptop I chose not to take in hold queues which adds a new table. 08:00 kf i d really like to have that feature in a stable version before october ... 08:00 paul_p hello all 08:00 kf hi paul 08:00 chris hi paul_p :) 07:59 kf hdl_laptop: you wrote yesterday about cherry picking holds to 3.0.2, does that mean the "holdability flag"? 07:59 chris me too 07:58 kf I m really courious about the results 07:58 chris cool 07:58 kf yes, i follow her on twitter 07:58 chris she is writing up her results now i think 07:57 kf yes 07:57 chris katrin kopf? 07:57 kf a library in bremen, one in hannover and one in stuttgart considering migration to koha 07:57 kf there is a library student doing a survey about koha 07:57 chris yay! 07:57 kf our project is still not official - but i get mails asking about Koha - I think the interest will be great, once its announced 07:57 chris and yes i think waiting for 3.2 is a good idea, as lots is still changing 07:56 chris should be 3.0.2 soon, but there wont be too many changes 07:56 kf 3.0.1 is complete and we decided not to start with 3.2 07:55 kf I think its because there is no translation work atm 07:55 kf back 07:55 Amit hi kf 07:54 chris excellent 07:53 Amit chris; i m working on dari & pashto translation 07:45 chris *nod* 07:44 hdl_laptop it all depends on the community. 07:43 hdl_laptop But it is the problem with mailing lists, 07:43 hdl_laptop oh i hadnot realized that. 07:43 kf sorry, meeting atm, bbl 07:41 chris yes she said they had been quiet lately 07:41 hdl_laptop nice to see you yesterday kf. Were you not there any longer when i spoke about german lists ? 07:39 hdl_laptop hi chris and kf 07:35 soul9 hello all 07:32 kf morning chris 07:31 chris evening 03:39 Amit heya mason 03:39 mason morning amit 03:32 chris excellent 03:32 Amit my team is on top delhi daredevils 03:31 chris hi amit 03:31 Amit good morning #koha 03:31 Amit hi chris, brendan, mason 02:29 chris he's good like that 02:29 Jo hehe - he has helped me on irc a number of times :) 02:29 chris different gender tho :) 02:28 chris jo, you have met atz before eh? he is a Joe too :) 02:28 Jo yepo. 02:28 atz np 02:28 Jo thanks Atz 02:28 chris we will have the opportunity to fix it again if we get something wrong (i have scheduled a few test migrations) but as close as possible is a good start :) 02:27 Jo be 10 minutes 02:27 Jo to make sure I got it right! 02:27 Jo just double checking the mapping table 02:27 Jo ok. 02:27 chris yep 02:27 Jo Re lof from the koha meeting: would that be on the wiki? 02:26 chris yep, you cant do more than one .. and i dont think you will be able to do more than one in the future, but you might be able to do see also/see instead type links 02:26 Jo (in our brains i mean) 02:26 Jo so for now, we'll stick with 1 ccode 02:26 Jo ok. 02:26 chris which i think we can solve with the summary records maybe 02:25 Jo at the moment i have to choose 1 or the other. 02:25 Jo chris: exactly. 02:25 Jo I am setting advanced search to CCode, but using itemtypes to arrange the collection. ccodes in adv search looks like a good way to cluster all related itemtypes iunto 1 search 02:25 chris basically the problem is you have a book that you want to appear when someone searches LP (large print) and when they search for F (fiction) 02:24 atz but that doesn't put more CCODE fields in the dB 02:24 atz you can make other MARC fields governed by CCODE 02:24 Jo i think the authorized values can be set to allow you to enter more than 1 (in patrons i think ...) 02:23 chris atz: i think the summary records will solve the problem jo is seeking to achieve 02:23 chris wont be in 3.0.x though 02:22 Jo ok. 02:22 chris ahh we are working on a fix for that 02:22 Jo so that a LP novel can appear in the advanced search in the LP and (rather than or) in the F lists 02:22 atz Jo: no, it's one field in the DB 02:22 chris is that possible in marc? 02:21 Jo so that i can assign yep. 02:21 chris so an item can have more than one ccode? 02:21 Jo question for you: is it possible to make ccode a repeatable field 02:21 chris did you read the minutes/log from this mornings koha meeting? 02:21 Jo hey Chris 02:21 chris heya jo 01:11 mason chris: back on now.. 01:04 brendan we're prepared. if need be 01:04 chris yeah 01:03 brendan it's just so rapid... 01:03 brendan so for now... I'm good 01:02 brendan I'm upwind about 8.5 miles 01:02 chris do you think you will need to evacuate? 01:02 chris yikes 00:53 brendan Afternoon Winds Blow Wildfire Toward Mission Canyon and East; Evac Orders and Warnings Expanded Dramatically 00:53 brendan Jesusita Fire Rages “Out of Control� 00:48 brendan hey chris -- the fire has gotten worse over the day... afternoon winds kicked up ... the fire looks four times as big as last night 23:01 chris hehe yeah, we know how to get the good deals to the US, ... not so much the other way 23:00 chris ohh good idea reed 22:49 reed so if next kohacon is in wellington then it might be good to find out when those windows are and try to do it then 22:48 reed 8 wks advance is about right 22:48 reed and not too much advance notice or too little 22:48 reed but not during holidays, etc 22:48 reed fyi - there's almost always sub $1000 (US) flights at http://www.airnewzealand.com/ 22:17 chris mason: you about? 22:04 pianohacker rhcl: Are you in the denver area? 22:01 chris best way to do it 22:01 davi and at the same time contribute something. 22:01 davi ok, good to know. I hope fix it in two or three months. I will use that task to get more used to the Koha source code 21:59 gmcharlt davi: no problem, that bug isn't urgent 21:50 rhcl Too much. 21:50 atz you have to know middle initials to tell them apart 21:49 chris heh 21:49 atz w/ usernames crc and cfc 21:49 chris and you too rhcl 21:49 chris atz you should add yourself to this :) 21:49 chris http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=irc_regulars 21:49 atz rhcl: if you think that is confusing, you should try working w/ both of them at the same time 21:48 chris :) 21:48 chris im chris cormack, and i have never lived in connecticut 21:48 rhcl What? My tech services director lied to me AGAIN? 21:48 chris does that remove confusion :) 21:48 chris im not chris catalfo 21:47 rhcl OK, so I'm confused. Librarything says you live in Connecticut, but everything else makes it sound like you're in NZ. So which is it? 21:47 davi gmcharlt, I think it will take me two months to fix that bug, depending on my work load. I hope there is not urgent? 21:45 chris rhcl: when you have inlaws continents away, a blog is a good way to keep the grandparents up to date :) 21:43 chris (thats ad advert here, L&P world famous, in new zealand) 21:42 chris in nz 21:42 chris heh 21:42 rhcl chris: I didn't know you had a blog. Gee, you're world famous. 21:39 gmcharlt ping me tonight / tomorrow morning if you run into problems 21:39 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: if you're still here, koha-maintenance.git exists and gitosis should let you push to it 21:36 chris re NZ, im sure I can swing a good deal on a venue (read no cost to attend) but yes the airfare is the gotcha 21:34 Colin Bye all 21:34 cait good night everybody 21:28 hdl_laptop1 bonne nuit _eric_b 21:26 gmcharlt g'night 21:26 _eric_b bonne nuit hdl! 21:26 hdl_laptop1 good night 21:25 davi night 21:25 slef night all 21:25 hdl_laptop1 pls keep me informed when I can push my testing branch 21:24 hdl_laptop1 thanks all and gmcharlt. 21:24 jwagner Useful session -- thanks all. 21:24 wizzyrea good ideas :) 21:24 pianohacker agreed, good night and good morning 21:24 wizzyrea thanks everybody 21:24 Sharon ty 21:24 gmcharlt thanks all 21:24 gmcharlt :) 21:24 gmcharlt ok, well to accommodate people who have this really strange desire for sleep, let's call this meeting adjourned 21:24 pianohacker yup 21:23 hdl_laptop1 I think regional session is good, but worldwide is also good to get some more general view. 21:23 calyx Thanks for the good meeting - Time to start my day. Cheers all. 21:23 rhcl Denver! Great place except for driving in downtown. 21:23 wizzyrea pianohacker ++ 21:23 pianohacker wizzyrea: hehe 21:23 Brooke nice 21:23 pianohacker There's some libraries moving to Koha in Colorado, maybe I can convince some of them to go 21:23 slef hdl_laptop1: your clock is 8 mins fast ;) 21:22 wizzyrea It's a kegger even you can enjoy, pianohacker 21:22 hdl_laptop1 ok guys, 23:30 here. 21:22 wizzyrea ;) 21:22 pianohacker wizzyrea: You enjoy that too much 21:22 rhcl Yummy. We'll be there. 21:22 wizzyrea Koha explorer's Group. What were you thinking? 21:22 wizzyrea yea, you're all welcome at our keggers 21:21 Sharon We will advertise the next KS regional users group meeting for adjoining states 21:21 jwagner Brooke, didn't mean no big conf (esp in NZ), but I don't want that to be the only one. 21:21 Brooke the pickle with regional sessions is that they have to be held so as not to conflict with large national gatherings. 21:21 jdavidb Regionals++ 21:21 jdavidb I would suggest Abilene, TX, for one some time....naah! Nevermind. NZ sounds great to me, but it'd be a bear to get to, I 'spect. 21:21 rhcl Regional Sessions +1 21:20 Brooke rare that that is 21:20 Brooke This is an international project, and I am being serious 21:20 jwagner More seriously, I'd really be interested in some small regional sessions -- easier for various people in various areas to travel. There was some discussion on the list a bit ago. Hope things keep happening there. 21:19 wizzyrea (crackers) 21:19 wizzyrea lulz and crunchy jif peanut butter + goldfish 21:18 jwagner Hmmm. How to sell a trip to NZ at company expense.... 21:18 Brooke and we owe chris a new year's party... 21:18 Sharon we 2nd that and are willing to pay our own way to go! 21:18 hdl_laptop1 to celebrate 10th year Koha 21:18 Brooke they should have da anniversary rights 21:18 wizzyrea Yes, and I had a great time meeting most of you, is fun to imagine you all sitting at your computers thinking koha. 21:18 Brooke I think it should be in NZ if we're going to hold one next year 21:18 pianohacker jwagner: agreed 21:17 calyx Schuster++ 21:17 jwagner I found Kohacon extremely helpful, and especially the devel session. 21:17 rhcl Where will KohaCon 2010 be held? 21:17 atz very successful event 21:17 pianohacker schuster++ 21:17 Brooke needs more alcohol next time 21:17 gmcharlt thanks to schuster and the Plano ISD for being excellant hosts 21:17 Brooke aw come on, let's go for an even 2.5 ;) 21:17 hdl_laptop1 I donot even have a 1.1 version up. 21:17 gmcharlt does anybody want to say anything quickly about KohaCon? 21:16 gmcharlt ok, well since we've already spent 2.25 hours at this 21:16 gmcharlt I assume nobody's stepping up with a burning desire to fix or report Koha 1.1 bugs 21:15 gmcharlt re pre < 2.2 versions 21:15 atz cool, then i'm down with that 21:15 gmcharlt as well as the bugs.koha.org homepage 21:15 gmcharlt so we most likely can put in two 'new bug' links in the header - new Koha bug, new 'other' bug 21:14 gmcharlt https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Firefox&format=guided does work 21:14 hdl_laptop1 needs testing on a white box. 21:14 hdl_laptop1 But no chang in your workflow. 21:14 wizzyrea er, I guess we don't know that for sure 21:13 hdl_laptop1 so it would be a new bookmark. 21:13 wizzyrea so it wouldn't *have* to change your workflow... 21:13 atz hdl_laptop1: probably some kind of link?product=koha 21:13 hdl_laptop1 koha.bugs.koha.org ? 21:13 wizzyrea hdl_laptop1: I was wondering that myself 21:13 hdl_laptop1 or the product as subdomain ? 21:12 hdl_laptop1 atz: wouldn't it be possible to add a direct link to the product ? 21:12 atz not sure about creation knowing what "product" to select 21:11 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: it needs to be tested, but should be possible 21:11 hdl_laptop1 but from what I read, now we can create/update bugs on bugzilla via emails can't we ? 21:10 atz so it' s a toss up for me 21:10 atz namely, it gives you a product selector page on adding a new ticket 21:09 atz wizzyrea: it changes the workflow of bugzilla if more than 1 product is defined 21:09 wizzyrea um... make it so, #1? 21:09 atz i agree w/ the idea, but in practice i don't want an extra click 21:08 gmcharlt any comments? 21:08 gmcharlt re the two smaller cleanups (creating new product for website changes) and merging/cleaning up the dropdown for Koha version 21:08 hdl_laptop1 slef: imho, could be good to indicate branch patch has been pushed on. 21:08 jdavidb hdl_laptop1: mine was plain old clumsiness. Didn't realize what branch I was *on*, and merged, then had to unravel and try again.. It didn't eat them, but it nibbled a little. 21:07 Sharon ty 21:07 gmcharlt slef: ok 21:07 Brooke http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:roadmap3.0 21:07 hdl_laptop1 oh the changing branch syndrome jdavidb and wizzyrea 21:07 slef gmcharlt: I guess two most useful are having something to --cc on a git send-email command, and some link from bugs to gitweb when it gets pushed 21:07 Sharon Brooke where's the 3.0 roadmap on the wiki? can't find 21:06 schuster Yes will do that before I do anything... Moving forward! I feel progress in motion! 21:06 jdavidb wizzyrea++ after git ate two of mine on my repo. 21:06 wizzyrea I just like levity ^.^ 21:06 gmcharlt schuster: go for it, but also be sure to check out the bugzilla page on the wiki 21:06 schuster wizzyrea - must have been a long day... too many kittens? 21:06 hdl_laptop1 thx schuster. 21:06 wizzyrea I maded you a patch, but git eated it 21:05 schuster Then maybe next week I can work on putting together a document about documenting a sponsored development and send it out to koha-dev for comment as well? 21:05 pianohacker i has a marc flavor? 21:05 Brooke ftr neither the 3.0 roadmap or the 3.2 roadmap have what I'm talking about, but the 3.0 is closer. 21:05 schuster I'll work on getting my outline for a committee to review together and send it to Koha-Dev for comment? 21:04 gmcharlt slef: re bugzilla to gitweb links - both directions, or which one do you care about the most? 21:04 schuster Great. 21:03 schuster Remember "free like a kitten"...:) 21:03 gmcharlt schuster: in a months time, I woudl say 21:03 schuster OK end of day... Gotta go pickup 4 year old... Great discussion... When's the next one? 21:02 gmcharlt slef: but thanks for putting that up 21:02 gmcharlt slef: in terms of details, anyway 21:02 atz all they do is spam chat 21:02 wizzyrea dunno, I'm pretty good with the spray bottle 21:02 atz gmcharlt: no, in my experience. 21:02 gmcharlt wizzyrea: but will the kittens work for Koha? 21:02 gmcharlt sponsored - funding and dev lined up together 21:01 gmcharlt seeking dev - have money / boxes of chocolate, want somebody to do it yesterday 21:01 jwagner er, Have Gnu, Will Travel? Sorry, getting a litty fuzzy. 21:01 wizzyrea gmcharlt: that is epic win re: change sponsored 21:01 schuster gmcharlt yep. 21:01 gmcharlt seeking cosponsors - want partners 21:01 slef gmcharlt: since an hour ago? 21:00 gmcharlt slef, Brooke - which needs updating 21:00 gmcharlt so blank - don't care 21:00 slef Brooke: see roadmap3.2 on the wiki 21:00 gmcharlt slef: added a seeking dev value 21:00 wizzyrea atz: lulz 21:00 Brooke after folks lock in features 21:00 atz the "are we there yet?" of project management 21:00 mdhafen I don't hear that. My librarians don't want another (painful) upgrade ;) 21:00 gmcharlt Brooke: october 21:00 Brooke is there a way to roll all of this stuff into a thermometer either on the roadmap or in bugzilla to show progress. 20:59 Brooke I'm thinking one of the most nagging questions y'all get asked as devs is when is 3.2 coming out? 20:59 davi ok 20:59 slef davi: never mind looked it up 20:59 Brooke whole picture wise 20:59 wizzyrea Ooh, yea... seeking developer or something 20:58 slef gmcharlt: other status is seeking workers I guess? 20:58 wizzyrea sorry, kind of had a zombie moment there 20:58 wizzyrea we require your braaaaiiinnnnsss 20:58 wizzyrea yes, travel safely 20:58 schuster later chris you are very valuable...;) 20:57 davi slef, what do you mean by "sponsorship statuses"? 20:57 wizzyrea gmcharlt: ++ perfect 20:56 slef davi: can you remember gnuherds sponsorship statuses or shall I check? 20:56 gmcharlt on the bug form, it shows up in the top details box, below the horizontal line under the URL field 20:56 atz later chris 20:56 gmcharlt current valid values are blank, seeking cosponsors, and sponsored 20:56 chris ok, im going to have to go get ready and head into work, will read back over the logs 20:56 gmcharlt label on the bug form is 'change sponsored?' 20:55 gmcharlt I've just added a sponsorship custom field 20:54 schuster I was thinking in the Sponsorship template it might indicate a tentative released to client info... 20:54 hdl_laptop1 schuster: orig est. is your friend 20:54 gmcharlt slef: I'll check 20:54 slef ok, other question before I move rooms: how does the email-to-bugzilla feature work? 20:53 schuster Oh wizzyrea - +++ and hdl_laptop1+++ 20:53 wizzyrea I think that would be VERY helpful 20:53 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yes 20:53 hdl_laptop1 also orthogonal to time requested. 20:53 gmcharlt slef: very, very raraely 20:53 wizzyrea if you do a custom sponsorship field, could you have Sponsored, Looking for partners, or other sponsorship related statuses? 20:53 schuster I don't know the back end so whatever you all feel works - that I can figure out how to extract data from! LOL! 20:52 slef gmcharlt: while we're simplifying: does anyone use Hardware meaningfully? 20:52 slef gmcharlt: you're right. forgot it was in priority. also orthogonal to severity. 20:51 wizzyrea custom field: I was just thinking that 20:51 Brooke that used to be on the roadmap, back in the day 20:51 gmcharlt slef: I think a custom field might be better - sponsorship status can be orthognal to priority 20:51 schuster Some sponsorships have been paid, but we may not see the coding until next summer... 20:50 schuster for those of us that don't code - but want to see what others have "paid for" already Sponsored makes more sense... 20:49 schuster wizzyrea +++ 20:49 slef schuster: I suspect something like PATCH-Sent but Sponsored might be better 20:49 wizzyrea enhancement/bug* 20:49 wizzyrea yea, and if you have something very lengthy, like a rfc to post, *that* should go on the wiki, and be referenced in the bug 20:49 schuster Can we add a category that says "sponsored" similar to enhancement so people can enter the items they have already sponsored? 20:49 slef hello - bugzilla docs are back online - thanks to $WHOEVER 20:48 gmcharlt schuster: agreed 20:48 schuster Cool - I still think an example/template so people know what type of information needs to be added when they create the enhancement. 20:48 gmcharlt schuster: anybody can identify and merge duplicate bugs 20:48 gmcharlt schuster: yeah, you could, but since it's cheap to create, merge, and close bugs in bugzilla, it's no problem 20:48 Brooke /agree 20:48 schuster wizzyrea - ++ - I believe then someone gmcharlt? merges/links? 20:47 chris imho its better to have a duplicate than fear of a duplicate stopping anything being posted at all 20:47 slef Brooke: at times you need rhino hide *rolls eyes* 20:47 schuster If people are concerned about adding an enhancement they might post to discuss first to see if anyone already knows about an enhancement etc that does X 20:47 Brooke thicker skin? 20:46 wizzyrea hehe, my experience is that if you miss a duplicate, it won't take long for someone else to point it out 20:46 gmcharlt just look for duplicates, then add the idea 20:46 slef added section below http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=bugreportingfornewbies#determine_if_you_have_a_new_bug mentioning CC 20:46 gmcharlt and there's no reason to over formalize posting an idea to bugs.koha.org 20:46 schuster Again keeping all the discussion for the developer in one place once it does get sponsored. 20:45 chris there is a good page on the wiki about it 20:45 davi ok 20:45 wizzyrea gmcharlt and schuster+++++ 20:45 chris to patches@koha.org .. that way lots of eyes get to see them 20:45 davi chris, ok 20:45 chris patches all the way davi 20:45 schuster skushner - I don't want another list personally - you could enter the enhancement - and publish the # to discuss and people could login to bugzilla and comment etc... 20:45 gmcharlt skushner: actually, it would be better to use bugzilla for the discussions - it doesn't have a threaded comments, but it does have comments 20:44 davi gmcharlt, Yes, that can be an start. What is the process to fix a bug. Should I send a patch to the mailing list or will you allow me to directly commit to the Git repository? 20:44 thd davi: MARC 21 is a more comprehensive larger format but not necessarily better for being based on US MARC the first way of doing MARC 20:44 skushner What about a threaded forum to discuss enhancements/bugs amongst the user groups to facilitate the conversation..."Like, I'm thinking of sponsoring X"..before it gets "comitted" to Bugzilla, or wherever? 20:43 schuster Group to review existing enhancements to determine if they have been coded or no longer of interest by individual creating the enhancement. 20:43 davi thd, thanks for the information 20:43 davi gmcharlt, looking at it 20:43 cait there is some interest in Koha in Germany atm - but translation list was silent in the last weeks 20:42 thd davi: In the world of US imperialist influence MARC 21 is more used 20:42 schuster Template for entering wishlist enhancements - tag 20:42 gmcharlt davi: is http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2616 the sort of bug you're looking for? 20:42 schuster So I see three things that need to happen - group to create a "template" for entering sponsored enhancements - tag? 20:42 davi thd, Is the MARC21 more used in Brazil than the UNIMARC format? 20:41 davi hdl_laptop1, ah, I did not know 20:41 gmcharlt slef: didn't you get the memo - the official language will be Klingon 20:41 hdl_laptop1 thd davi : brasil is MARC21, portugal UNIMARC. 20:41 schuster gmcharlt - I agree. 20:41 slef chris: official language of Koha will be Spanish. I'm learning it. 20:40 davi chris, no comment :) 20:40 chris davi: cultural imperialist :-) 20:40 gmcharlt but I think simply promoting its use will go a long way 20:40 wizzyrea slef++ 20:40 hdl_laptop1 but some german speaking ppl are testing koha atm 20:40 slef gmcharlt: could redirect todo.koha.org to a search for enhancements 20:40 gmcharlt sure 20:40 davi thd, I think the Brazilian and Portuguese list should be the same due to the language differences are minimal 20:40 gmcharlt but if it needs a different name to encourage people to think of it as more than just a defects database 20:40 hdl_laptop1 slef: yes quite idle 20:40 gmcharlt wizzyrea: it would break a lot of links to *move* bugs.koha.org to another domain 20:39 chris both 20:39 thd hdl_laptop1 chris: Brazilian and Portuguese have different email lists or merely different translations? 20:39 gmcharlt but perhaps emphasize CCing 20:39 slef hdl_laptop1: where is the german list now? http://listes.koha-fr.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-i18n-german seems idle 20:39 hdl_laptop1 schuster: yes. 20:39 hdl_laptop1 they asked for it. 20:38 skushner If it was put in one place, everyone would know to look there. Pls. no more email lists. 20:38 wizzyrea maybe the bugs.koha.org name is the problem, it needs branding... like, todo.koha.org or something 20:38 hdl_laptop1 thd: yes. 20:38 chris yes thd 20:38 schuster There's a translator list correct? 20:38 gmcharlt I think should last for six months 20:38 thd hdl_laptop1: Is the Brazilian list different from the Portuguese list? 20:38 gmcharlt since it generally takes a few months for a group of disparate libraries to organize a cosponsorship arrangment 20:38 slef hdl_laptop1: until we get something more formal, ask chris for active translators perhaps? 20:38 schuster hdl_lpatop1 - yes it would 20:38 gmcharlt re timeline for experiment 20:37 schuster Just looking for clarification. 20:37 hdl_laptop1 maybe it could be good to spread also news to those ppl. 20:37 gmcharlt schuster: it would be both 20:37 schuster Are we voting on BUGS or Enhancements or both? 20:37 hdl_laptop1 there is now brasilian, portuguese, german and french speaking list. 20:36 gmcharlt it ultimately depends on whether somebody actually does something with the top vote-getting bugs 20:36 wizzyrea yea, I can see an email to the list saying "i've proposed X enhancement, bugs.koha.org bug #XXXX, please check it out 20:36 Sharon I like the CC option because it gives funders contact information for other potential funders 20:36 gmcharlt re voting in particular 20:36 hdl_laptop1 schuster++ 20:35 gmcharlt and more importantly, a communication place for ensuring that requests get funding or done 20:35 schuster Posting info to the koha-discuss/dev etc... for volunteers etc... 20:35 gmcharlt well, success ultimately is going to be determined by whether users see bugzilla as the place to go to for dev requests 20:35 slef Barca scored! 20:35 schuster At Koha con there were 264 "enhancements" as I remember - I was working on a proposal to get a committee together to "review" them. 20:35 slef we've a similar "RT for software.coop" but we'll refer to bugs.koha.org as appropriate 20:35 richard morning 20:34 hdl_laptop1 kohala has no public bug tracker. 20:34 slef gmcharlt: ok to experiment, but define "success" and end-of-trial before we start 20:34 hdl_laptop1 but it is only biblibre at the moment. 20:34 hdl_laptop1 suivi.biblibre.com 20:34 gmcharlt if so we need to make sure that it's linked to from the wiki and other places more or less as prominently as bugs.khoa.org 20:34 jwagner Along the lines of the earlier discussion about monthly emails with useful info, can the intro page to bugzilla have some general info for new users? Like how to report bugs, use the cc feature, etc.? 20:33 gmcharlt as far as the kohala bugs database is concerned, I assume it has a public URL, hdl_laptop1? 20:33 davi gmcharlt, I would like be assigned a bug to fix. An easy one 20:33 gmcharlt bug voting we could do as an experiment 20:32 gmcharlt encouraging people to use CC lists is a good regardless of anything else 20:32 davi slef, anyway the hosting and users data will follow controlled by them 20:32 wizzyrea (just let it go... bad idea, I get it) 20:32 slef davi: they say they'll publish some of it eventually. But that's an aside. 20:32 gmcharlt as is going over documenation (on wiki) for filing bugs and improving it 20:31 slef so bugs get reported there which will never get fixed. 20:31 gmcharlt "cleaning up" bugzilla is fine 20:31 gmcharlt as far as specific action items go 20:31 slef wizzyrea: in case you didn't know, launchpad.net creates bug trackers for things which are maintained by other people who don't want to use it. 20:31 wizzyrea (I just like the nub friendly interface) 20:31 wizzyrea fair enough 20:30 davi wizzyrea, launchpad.net is controlled by Canonical. And they refuse to publish the source code. They want to control the system 20:29 slef gmcharlt: thanks 20:29 slef wizzyrea: I really dislike launchpad.net on both usability and philosophy angles. 20:29 gmcharlt slef: http://bugzilla.zimbra.com/ has voting enabled 20:29 reed missed part of the conversation but -- bugzilla is always going to go daunting to new users however you skin it 20:29 wizzyrea actually, launchpad.net is a really nice bugtracker 20:29 chris local groups could talk amongst themselves, then file an enhancement on bugs.koha.org 20:28 hdl_laptop1 schuster++ 20:28 schuster If we put a concerted effort into "cleanup" bugzilla and a "template" of how to create an enhancement - that would at least give users new and old an opportunity to see what is under development or consideration. 20:27 slef Sharon: Il n'y aucun. ;) 20:27 slef thd: oic 20:27 Sharon Paul brought up the language issue a kohacon 20:27 thd slef: I merely meant that users need to know that is the way to express interest where it may not be obvious to them 20:27 hdl_laptop1 imho 20:27 hdl_laptop1 But bugs.koha.org is a good starting point. 20:27 skushner So..sync the servers worldwide, but have regional groups too, like Kudos Northeast, etc.. 20:26 hdl_laptop1 But it would also be the problem with bugs.koha.org 20:26 chris wizzyrea++ 20:26 hdl_laptop1 And maybe interest is wider than your language community 20:26 wizzyrea rather than an additional place for everyone to check 20:26 gmcharlt skushner: I thnk the users groups are a valid forum for sponsorship arrangements, but one of many 20:25 wizzyrea I think it's definitely better to have the payers (libraries using koha) and the payees (developers making koha) looking at the same database of bugs and enhancement requests 20:25 slef mick_laptop: whatever's on bugs.koha.org ;-) 20:25 mick_laptop the newer versions have gotten a lot nicer 20:25 jwagner Another problem with using KUDOS is that it's US/North America, but development needs to be coordinated worldwide. 20:25 hdl_laptop1 skushner: because you have many localized user groups 20:25 mick_laptop what version of bz are you complaining about? 20:25 schuster Voting I think comes later in the game - when there might be a user group with money to sponsor development projects. 20:25 slef jwagner: I'm not a fan of bugzilla's user interface, but I'm equally not a fan of changing bug tracker :-/ 20:25 atz skushner: kudos group isn't incorporated yet, among other things 20:24 slef Can someone tell me a bugzilla with voting enabled, please? I'm not seeing it on bugzilla.mozilla.org 20:24 skushner Why not through Kudos, and other interest groups to share development ideas and commitments? 20:24 jwagner I lost track of how many times I visited bugzilla before I even NOTICED the cc function. Maybe I'm blind as a bat, but usability is an issue here. 20:23 schuster yes you did, but was waiting for after KohaCon to see what happens 20:23 slef thd: what else would adding yourself to the CC on a bug show apart from interest? 20:23 gmcharlt a bugzilla tag could be useful 20:23 gmcharlt and for something where somebody is actively looking for cosponsors 20:23 thd slef: a CC might show that if there were clear and obvious instructions that CC should be used for that purpose 20:23 slef Sharon: we (software.coop) support gnuherds.org which I think I mentioned to schuster 20:23 gmcharlt I've no problem using a CC instead of bug voting as such, but I think users woudl still want a report of bugs ordered by number of CCs 20:22 hdl_laptop1 mmm... but then maybe only the higher interest bugs would be coped with by big companies and the other ones could be left alone. 20:22 Sharon I 2nd Schuster, we need a way to facilitate co-sponsorships 20:22 sekjal I got the impression at KohaCon that there is some concern about users and developers drifting apart 20:22 atz slef: indeed, wizzyrea recommended that option 20:22 schuster Many users were unaware of bugzilla for enhancements. 20:21 slef atz: doesn't a cc show that? 20:21 schuster Squeaky wheel also provides people to figure out who might have money to co sponsor... 20:21 mdhafen yeah, level of interest in a feature can be a big motivator for a developer (myself included) 20:20 atz slef: KohaCon users were unaware of each others' interests in given bugs, fixes, etc. 20:20 gmcharlt obviously to actual get a change done, ultimately somebody has to pony up effort, time, or money 20:20 chris squeaky wheel does actually have merit in a lot of cases 20:20 gmcharlt more of a mechanism for interested users to find out what each other cares about 20:19 slef Why bug voting? Squeaky wheel syndrome and rule of the mob? 20:19 gmcharlt in addition to use of wiki for RFCs 20:18 gmcharlt in conjunction with developers and vendors putting in an effort to put significant features as enhancement bugs 20:18 gmcharlt or establshing consitent tagging 20:18 gmcharlt turning bug voting 20:17 gmcharlt so specific ideas re using bugs database for that purpose include 20:16 mdhafen thd: both suggestions are applicable here. hdl seems willing to resolve merge conficts. 20:16 gmcharlt thd: patches should be against HEAD unless something is truly 3.0.x specific, or if a particular file(s) have diverged enough that you need a patch for HEAD and a patch for 3.0.x 20:16 gmcharlt is that bugzilla is probably a better place to try first 20:16 thd atz hdl_laptop1: mdhafen suggests sending 3.0.x patches against 3.0.x as [3.0.x]. atz: suggests sending almost all patches against HEAD only unless they cannot be. 20:16 gmcharlt but general agreement during that KohaCon meeting 20:15 gmcharlt initial suggestion was to use a Google spreadsheet or the like 20:15 gmcharlt particularly for big projects 20:15 gmcharlt can coordinate arrangement funding or person-time to do it 20:15 gmcharlt is desire to have a process whereby people interested in an enhnacement 20:15 gmcharlt but big point among many Koha users 20:15 gmcharlt schuster can speak to this better 20:14 gmcharlt http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes09apr07 20:14 gmcharlt a very brief summary of the big proposals from KohaCon is on the wiki 20:14 slef go for it 20:14 gmcharlt anyway, I think we're ambling towards the bugzilla topic of the agenda 20:13 gmcharlt bracket for "[3.0.x]" is fine, as it's redundant once patch is applied 20:13 hdl_laptop1 I saw that it should rather be () and not [] 20:13 slef yikes 20:13 gmcharlt slef: "bug 1234" or "bug1234" or whatever is better than "[bug 1234]" - git-am strips anything in brackets in subject line when patch is applied 20:13 hdl_laptop1 is brackets the correct tag. 20:13 slef (and also remembered that section of the page myself - sorry for recent ignorance of it) 20:12 slef I've updated http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:codingguidelines#good_commit_message with the branch-tagging idea 20:12 chris ack attacked by a 2year old with a soccer ball, brb 20:12 slef ok, end of digression for now ;) 20:11 gmcharlt if not, may be issue with dokuwiki's openid plugin 20:11 gmcharlt slef: seems accurate - let me know if the increased timeout has an effect 20:10 slef gmcharlt: thanks. if you're still logged in, is it's clock accurate? Didn't feel like 15mins 20:10 hdl_laptop1 and i think it could be a good practise. 20:10 hdl_laptop1 Some LLers and chris did publicize their branches. 20:10 thd atz hdl_laptop1: I have a contradictory messages 20:09 hdl_laptop1 I think that we underestimate the goodness of topic branches 20:09 gmcharlt slef: increased timeout from 900 to 3600 seconds 20:09 atz (exceptional circumstances notwithstanding) 20:08 atz thd: hdl_laptop1 described why your changes should go to HEAD first 20:08 hdl_laptop1 thd : then I think that mdhafen's suggestion sould be used. 20:08 thd atz: hdl_laptop1 described the issue well as they diverge 20:08 chris if its not relevant to a future release, then the case is moot, it doesnt need to be on HEAD 20:08 slef aside - can someone (gmcharlt?) lengthen the login time on wiki.koha.org please? I seem to be booted out rather too easily. 20:07 thd atz: not at this point but there have been reasons in the past why one would have two different patches or why a patch would only be relevant to stable but not to a future development release 20:07 mdhafen for example the aqui rewrite 20:06 hdl_laptop1 the fact is that the more HEAD and 3.0.x diverge, the harder it will be to guarantee that your patch will be preserved from one version to another. 20:06 atz thd: is there a reason they shouldn't be in HEAD? 20:05 thd hdl_laptop1: If I add patches against the 3.0.x branch will you have those changes or are you only taking from HEAD? 20:04 mdhafen if there is a patch that applies only to 3.0.x (unlikely) sending them to the patches list should be ok still. Just make sure to include [3.0.x] in the heading 20:04 hdl_laptop1 koha-maintenance will be out there only for testing purpose. 20:04 hdl_laptop1 3.0.x will still be the official maintenance branch. 20:04 atz thd: cherry picking means taking from patches submitted at HEAD and applying them to 3.0.x 20:03 thd slef: I was wondering about the c 20:03 hdl_laptop1 sorry ? 20:03 slef thd: clarification: 3.0.x.c is only in our co-op's repo (which is what the c is for) 20:02 thd hdl_laptop1: does only cherry picking mean that you have not or do not intend to add from the 3.0.x or 3.0,x,c branches on the main repository? 20:02 slef I'll ask about that under the next item. 20:02 hdl_laptop1 so that the patch is attached to the bug. 20:02 hdl_laptop1 Now that bugzilla can accept emails, should be prety easy to send patches to it. 20:02 hdl_laptop1 and then headline of the bug. 20:02 slef ok 20:01 hdl_laptop1 (1st line) 20:01 slef 2287 being the first 20:01 slef from memory, it's mostly new features... I'm trying to get any bugfixes out first 20:01 hdl_laptop1 And But post bug # on it. 20:00 hdl_laptop1 So I would say please send on HEAD. 20:00 gmcharlt agree with hdl_laptop1 20:00 hdl_laptop1 all i did was cherry picking. 20:00 gmcharlt nom nom nom 19:59 slef hdl_laptop1: as you probably know, we've a 3.0.x.c branch. Do you want me to submit patches against 3.0.x or concentrate on sending to HEAD and letting you cherry-pick? 19:59 gmcharlt positively euphonious 19:59 hdl_laptop1 does that sound sound gmcharlt ? 19:59 chris cool 19:59 chris (reed works with me) 19:59 hdl_laptop1 and then 3.2 19:58 chris cya in a bit reed 19:57 hdl_laptop1 Then it would be time for reconciliation and 3.0.3 19:57 hdl_laptop1 But feature and bug tracking freeze for 3.0.2 should be done in the next two weeks. 19:56 chris but always good to give them time 19:56 chris (translation wise) 19:56 chris i dont think there will be many changes, so it shouldn't take too long 19:55 hdl_laptop1 I said June because translators should have some time to do translations. 19:55 hdl_laptop1 maybe 3.0.3 could be quite near after 3.0.2 19:54 chris right 19:54 hdl_laptop1 acquisitions, item management and so on. 19:54 gmcharlt yep 19:54 hdl_laptop1 before tough job for 3.2 is merged on HEAD. 19:53 hdl_laptop1 I think it is urgent to release 3.0.2 and reconciliation branch 19:53 slef gmcharlt: I was just thinking that. If 3.0.2 is June. 19:53 chris :) 19:53 gmcharlt up to hdl_laptop1 , of course :) 19:53 gmcharlt the calendar permits a 3.0.3 19:52 chris 3.0.2 should be the last 3.0.x release eh? barring a super bad bug that means an urgent 3.0.3 release eh 19:52 schuster Schuster - sitting in corner listening... 19:51 gmcharlt and ensuring a clean database & feature upgrade path from 3.0.x to 3.2 19:51 hdl_laptop1 and test. 19:51 gmcharlt slef: git merging 19:51 slef hdl_laptop1: reconciliation as in library reconciliation or git merging? 19:51 hdl_laptop1 that gmcharlt and I will set up. 19:50 hdl_laptop1 But then will come reconciliation branch. 19:50 gmcharlt another other 3.0.2/3.0.x stuff? 19:50 gmcharlt ok 19:50 hdl_laptop1 So I won't be able to release it before june. 19:50 gmcharlt i.e., who are you and what's your public key (for gitosis to control who gets to push to that particular repo) 19:50 slef sorry, this is a tangent... can we wiki it later? 19:49 gmcharlt first step would be pretty manual 19:49 hdl_laptop1 as soon as I have posted the branch, i will send an email for testers. 19:49 gmcharlt slef: sure 19:49 slef or "private" repos or whatever you want to call them 19:48 slef Can we semi-automate git.koha.org branches? At least get the requests to its maintainers in a ready-to-use form. 19:48 hdl_laptop1 chris: I wall. 19:47 chris hdl_laptop1: cool, just say the word whenever you think it's ready 19:47 hdl_laptop1 But I prefer to test updating french strings first to tell you. 19:47 slef Aside to new joiners - I've added a "Read the meeting so far..." link to the start of http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes09apr07 19:46 hdl_laptop1 In fact, i hope it should already be freezed. 19:46 chris excellent, let me know when you think its good to go, and i will regen and msgmerge the .po files and let all the translators know 19:46 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: ok 19:46 hdl_laptop1 I think I am really close to that. 19:45 hdl_laptop1 koha-maintenance.git 19:45 chris hdl_laptop1: how far away do you think a string freeze is? 19:45 gmcharlt and I'll init it and set up gitosis so that you can push to it 19:45 gmcharlt let me know what you want it called 19:45 gmcharlt ok 19:44 hdl_laptop1 fine for me. 19:44 hdl_laptop1 so you would create a new git repo on git.koha.org and I would push on it then ? 19:43 gmcharlt e.g., push to a new koha-hdl.git or git-biblibre.git hosted on git.koha.org 19:43 hdl_laptop1 link via git.koha.org ? 19:43 hdl_laptop1 can you explain ? 19:43 mdhafen yeah, make a private key on git.koha.org, and do regular pulls from there on a separate branch 19:43 gmcharlt or better, link via git.koha.org 19:43 mdhafen or there's the git-daemon option 19:42 chris you could push it to repo.or.cz .. or github etc if you wanted to let people clone it without needing a key 19:42 hdl_laptop1 with read access. 19:42 hdl_laptop1 mmm... I can create a new project that would contain that branch only. 19:41 hdl_laptop1 right now i thik so. 19:41 mdhafen though some say passing around a private key is evil, you could setup a gitosis key with read access, and pass around that private key. I think that would work at least. 19:40 gmcharlt are ssh keys need to just fetch from it? 19:40 hdl_laptop1 at the moment, it is on a biblibre gitosis, which could be open with ssh keys. 19:39 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: is the branch in a publicly available git repo? if so, URL could be added, or git.koha.org could fetch a clone periodically 19:38 hdl_laptop1 And nicolas and laurence will certainly help me. 19:38 hdl_laptop1 I have not pushed them because I want the branch to be tested. 19:38 chris i can help with testing 19:38 hdl_laptop1 But I think that I am getting something quite interesting now. 19:37 hdl_laptop1 holds and branchtransfer limits, and syndetics and LT stuff mainly 19:37 hdl_laptop1 187 are still apppart : 19:37 chris ahhh 19:37 hdl_laptop1 i have already applied all those 260 commits. 19:36 chris do you need some help with that? 19:36 hdl_laptop1 and a branch that one could want to test. 19:36 chris yoicks 19:36 hdl_laptop1 I have at the moment 260 commits on my queue. 19:36 hdl_laptop1 trying to cherry-pick HEAD commits on 3.0.x 19:35 hdl_laptop1 I am late, but I have been quite busy 19:34 hdl_laptop1 so. 19:34 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: ready to give a 3.0.x update? 19:33 gmcharlt jwagner: agreed 19:33 jwagner I'd also suggest adding to the welcome/monthly message links to such things as the online manual site, bugzilla, the wiki -- whatever someone new would find most helpful. 19:33 gmcharlt sure 19:33 jwagner One more point on the welcome message? 19:32 gmcharlt shall we move on to 3.0.x (don't worry, we can have general discussion after we go through the formal agenda items) 19:32 gmcharlt ok 19:31 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1++ 19:31 hdl_laptop1 adding a link to that page could be nice ;) 19:31 wizzyrea a "Search the Archives: <link> would suffice I think 19:31 gmcharlt yeah, I was thinking of combining the currently first two lines, adding a line for a link to a search archive, ending up with no net changes in the number of lines in the footer 19:30 slef gmcharlt: careful not to make footer too long 19:30 chris good idea _eric_b ... quick write it on the wiki :) 19:30 gmcharlt we could also change the footer that the mailing list adds 19:29 _eric_b hdl: agree 19:29 hdl_laptop1 nabble 19:29 thd my horse is thirsty 19:29 hdl_laptop1 k for me. 19:29 _eric_b I suggest to place in the email how to search the archived mails... :) 19:29 gmcharlt we can only lead our horses to the water 19:28 chris thats why monthly reminders are good :) 19:28 hdl_laptop1 except that usually ppl only read the 1st message then throw it to dustbin ;) 19:28 sekjal sounds like a good plan 19:28 brendan ++ 19:28 brendan no objection here -- 19:28 slef no, especially if it is combined with the "mailman day" emails 19:28 gmcharlt in addition to having the text be part of the welcome message? 19:27 gmcharlt does anybody have a serious objection to sending this message out monthly? 19:27 gmcharlt of course, anybody is free to proposed ideas or wording on the wiki page 19:27 gmcharlt I'll let nengard know about the welcome message 19:26 hdl_laptop1 i was wondering when this text should be updated in mailman. 19:26 thd yes: I realised that hdl_laptop1 was not advancing the agenda as soon as I pressed enter 19:26 chris i like the no new database tables or columns rule too 19:26 IrmaCalyx G'day all 19:26 chris good morning IrmaCalyx, kudos for being awake at 5.30am 19:26 gmcharlt about the context 19:26 gmcharlt but hdl_laptop1 is right 19:26 hdl_laptop1 gmcharlt: ++ 19:25 gmcharlt thd: except to fix blockers 19:25 gmcharlt thd: my preference is that a feature freeze means no new database tables or columns 19:25 hdl_laptop1 thd: it is not about koha feature ;) 19:25 thd gmcharlt: In the past, there has been some confusion about what a feature freeze should mean. Some have thought no new database columns while others have thought that adding columns could not possibly break anything. 19:24 gmcharlt I suppose when she says so and has given people a chance to look at it 19:24 gmcharlt assuming nengard has time and is willing to do the first draft 19:24 hdl_laptop1 but when should it called freezed version then ? 19:24 gmcharlt http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=koha_list_welcome 19:23 hdl_laptop1 mmm....could be. 19:23 chris i guess it could be written up in draft on the wiki then let people make some edits 19:21 hdl_laptop1 and will have it translated. 19:21 hdl_laptop1 i just need the text. 19:21 hdl_laptop1 or initial email. 19:20 chris ahh good idea too slef, make the initial email better too 19:20 hdl_laptop1 gm i can help with list manager monhtly email 19:20 chris apostrophe fail, need more coffee 19:20 slef ISTR koha list welcome emails are the Mailman boilerplate 19:19 chris yeah if she isnt here, she gets it ... them's the rules 19:19 slef is that best, or making sure the welcome email is as good as it can be? 19:19 chris :) 19:19 gmcharlt I'm inclined to call something like that documentation and fob it off to nengard ;) 19:19 gmcharlt somethign like that 19:19 chris like the first of the month email losts of lists do? 19:19 gmcharlt how to ask questions, etc. 19:18 gmcharlt i.e., here's where to find Koha doc 19:18 gmcharlt is somebody at KohaCon suggested a monthly (or whatever) project FAQ email 19:18 slef can help with plugins offlist 19:18 gmcharlt the other thing re periodic email 19:17 chris that sounds like a good idea 19:17 slef ok but suggest feedwordpress plugin 19:17 wizzyrea def are with WP 19:17 reed i'm thinking there may be some automated blog to email services around 19:17 gmcharlt if I do it as blog off of koha.org, my inclination is to give accounts to anybody who was an RM or RMaint for any version of Koha 19:17 pianohacker I think there are rss-to-email gateways that would automate it for you 19:16 wizzyrea I like that, always accessible and archived and not in my inbox 19:16 gmcharlt or both 19:16 chris or both? 19:16 gmcharlt I don't have any personal preference whether it is a blog or e-mail newsletter 19:16 gmcharlt or possibly do it as rm.blog.koha.org 19:16 chris cool 19:15 gmcharlt "stuff new in tip" or the like 19:15 gmcharlt I'm going to revive a weekly RM newsletter 19:15 gmcharlt other 3.2 stuff not related to code as such 19:15 slef lenny or later at least 19:15 chris yay! 19:14 slef thd: should be doable 19:14 thd slef: what about debs for backports? 19:14 slef gmcharlt: probably 19:14 gmcharlt slef: you're doing the deb for 3.0.x as well, right? 19:14 cait Katrin Fischer here 19:14 slef chris: pretty good I think 19:13 gmcharlt and experimental ORM (DBIx::Class, most likely) 19:13 chris slef: what do you reckon the chances of having .debs for 3.2 are ? is that something we can aim for too? 19:13 gmcharlt and some investigation of Template Toolkit 19:13 gmcharlt chris and beppu et al memcached experimentation 19:12 gmcharlt pianohacker's JSON work 19:12 gmcharlt and metnioned during KohaCon or before 19:12 gmcharlt as a result of things people want to play around with 19:12 gmcharlt some experimental branches are in order 19:12 gmcharlt and we'll be posting about that as part of the ramp-up to June 19:11 gmcharlt about what we've been up to development-wise 19:11 gmcharlt we have a large backlog of stuff to communicate 19:11 gmcharlt from my and LL's point of view 19:11 gmcharlt the acq module should be in the June tarball 19:11 gmcharlt so unless something goes seriously awry 19:10 gmcharlt prior to merging into main 19:10 gmcharlt for a couple weeks of integration 19:10 gmcharlt they'll be put on a topic branch in the public repo 19:10 gmcharlt ready 19:10 gmcharlt so once he has the patches read 19:10 gmcharlt paul's recently got his acq stuff ported to head 19:10 gmcharlt and at least one intermediate between then and August 19:09 gmcharlt just to run through the packaing process 19:09 gmcharlt I will do a pre-pre-alpha release some time in June 19:09 gmcharlt anything new will be relegated to the future branch 19:09 chris works for me 19:09 gmcharlt will be it 19:09 gmcharlt i.e., what we have by end of August in terms of features and major archictrual changes 19:08 gmcharlt 3.2 is going to be calendar driven by that point 19:08 gmcharlt as far as anything past the end of summer goes 19:08 gmcharlt putting release by end of October 19:08 gmcharlt allow two months for bugfixes, stabliization, and 3.2 translation 19:08 wizzyrea Liz Rea NEKLS here 19:07 gmcharlt start a 3.4/future at that point in time 19:07 gmcharlt so my intention is to declare a feature freeze for 3.2 by end of August 19:07 gmcharlt holdings & circ work by LL 19:07 gmcharlt BibLibre's acq developments 19:06 gmcharlt there are several large bits of integration to do over the summer 19:06 gmcharlt so starting with the 3.2 update 19:06 gmcharlt 4. KohaCon 2009 report 19:06 gmcharlt 3. Koha bugs database 19:06 gmcharlt 2. Koha 3.0.x status 19:05 gmcharlt 1/ Koha 3.2/tip status and timeline 19:05 gmcharlt so for agenda, we have four points 19:05 gmcharlt ok - thanks - any latecomers should feel free to chime in for rollcall at any point 19:05 dbirmingham David Birmingham in the room 19:05 ruth Ruth Vargas here 19:04 meliss Melissa Lefebvre here 19:04 gmcharlt reed: better chain it :) 19:04 reed hey, Reed Wade here (lost my keyboard for a moment) 19:03 slef thd: or 2 years 3 months for general meeting 19:03 _eric_b Eric Begin here 19:03 mdhafen here 19:03 slef thd: 1 year 9 months thereabouts 19:02 chris hi reed, we are just doing roll call 19:02 thd Thomas Dukleth here 19:02 gmcharlt thd: unspecific unit, but too long 19:01 thd gmcharlt: how long is a yonk? 19:01 Colin Colin Campbell here 19:01 danny Danny Bouman here 19:01 brendan Brendan Gallagher here 19:01 jwagner Jane Wagner here 19:01 sekjal sure. Ian Walls, NYU Health Science Libraries 19:01 slef MJ Ray here 19:01 chris chris cormack here 19:00 gmcharlt shall we start with a quick roll call of whoever's in channel and participating/listening? 19:00 gmcharlt thanks to slef for starting the wiki page 19:00 gmcharlt agenda and meeting notes: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes09apr07 18:59 gmcharlt first general Koha IRC meeting in yonks 18:59 gmcharlt greetings all 18:59 chris heh 18:59 slef chris: newbie 18:59 gmcharlt and on that note, let's start the meeting 18:59 chris oh wow that was just my 800th blog post 18:44 chris *nod* 18:43 brendan it started up on a hiking trail, so I guess you could draw your own conclusions 18:42 brendan that I've heard of 18:42 brendan still no known cause 18:42 chris do they know what started it? 18:42 chris heres hoping they get it under control before any are lost 18:41 brendan s/buildings/ 18:41 brendan the fire is close to builds though... so far none have been lost, but it's close 18:40 brendan the wind has died down... so some what under control. They had helicopters dumping water on the flames all night 18:40 chris fires under control brendan ? 18:39 brendan morning chris 18:39 gmcharlt howdy chris 18:39 pianohacker mornin' 18:38 chris morning 18:25 gmcharlt schuster: the syspref is called opaclanguages 18:24 schuster thanks - still working to find the language issue - I saw a reference to syspref's, but nothing with language or opaclanguage on any of those pages. 18:14 gmcharlt remove it, most likely 18:13 schuster OK thanks - just trying to plan how to implement serials and what I need to do. In the upgrade from 3.0 to 3.2 then it will "remove" the item information from the bib or just leave it? 18:11 gmcharlt that will basically solve the performance problem 18:11 gmcharlt the idea for 3.2 is to speed it up by not embedding items in in the MARC bib record (except when you need to export a MARC bib or index it) 18:09 schuster When you checkout it REALLY slows down currently in 3.0. Should we make seperate Bibs for each location or will this be handled differently with 3.2? 18:09 schuster Question about speeding up Circ as well. Currently say Time magazine - you get 52 a year(weekly) but if we have 10 schools that get it you have over 520 items attached to it. 18:07 schuster So you see the first page, but can't see the second but only in IE. 18:07 schuster Is that "under the hood" or is there a system preference someplace that I am missing? What I am seeing is that with languages on in the PAC - with IE you can't see the 1, 2, 3 etc... for more display titles. 18:04 gmcharlt I recently did a patch to remove the language chooser if only one OPAC (or staff) language is selected 18:03 gmcharlt via opaclanguages 18:03 schuster Is there an easy way to turn off the language preferences in pac? I can't seem to locate that. 17:55 atz yeah... catch22 there 17:54 brendan kind of pointless IMHO 17:54 brendan they will insure you only if you are allowed back in the build. but if the build is commended then you don't get insurance 17:53 brendan All of the insurance companies have really weird rules 17:53 atz yeah, how do you shop for that? 17:53 brendan the fire insurance is the easy part... the most difficult is coming up with good earthquake insurance 17:52 atz and pay your insurance 17:52 brendan yeah atz, I guess time to get used to living in Socal. 17:50 atz crazy 17:47 brendan had a few friends evacuated and crashing at my house 17:47 brendan interesting night last night - with the brush fires in Santa Barbara (where I live) getting big 17:46 brendan good morning #koha 17:27 Sharon we'll have to share our tests later - when you cancel a reserve, it reprioritizes the holds list unfairly. 17:26 pianohacker I consider the fact that you got that much useful information out of Circulation.pm valiant and admirable (I've had some memorable battles with that module) 17:25 slef hope I gave enough info to suggest where to look for similar questions if no-one is alive here ;) 17:24 slef np 17:24 Sharon thanks for the explanation 17:24 slef ok, off to cook 17:24 slef (being silly) 17:24 slef (I know the reasons for not letting everyone edit, really) 17:24 Sharon i'm not smart 'nuf for that template changing 17:23 slef don't they give you a text editor? ;-) 17:23 Sharon or we'll just comment out the cancelreserve function 17:23 Sharon cool, I'll ask Liz to do that for us. 17:23 slef the checkbox is actually named cancelreserve 17:22 slef edit en/modules/circulation.tmpl to put a label by it 17:21 slef (I've not checked that the code matches perldoc C4/Circulation.pm, though) 17:21 Sharon yep. we'll have to see if there's a way to add a name after 'cancel reserve' so it's very clear to staff whose reserve is being cancelled 17:20 slef OK? 17:20 slef so it cancels everyone else's reserves 17:20 slef 17:20 slef =item C<$cancelreserve> is 1 to override and cancel any pending reserves for the item (optional). 17:19 slef AddIssue is in C4::Circulation 17:19 slef (thinking aloud) actual call is AddIssue( $borrower, $barcode, $datedue, $cancelreserve ); 17:18 Sharon ty. trying to determine if it's useful or dangerous 17:17 slef looking 17:17 Sharon circulation.pl 17:17 slef 'cancel reserve' check box on which page? 17:15 Sharon question - what does the 'cancel reserve' check box do? Who's reserve is canceled? 16:12 Sharon We need to turn off the images in the OPAC as well as the staff client 16:11 atz my web connection is choking... 16:05 Sharon with story time coming up, I can see some Mom's excited about losing the 3 ft slip of receipt paper and just getting an email 16:05 wizzyrea I'd have to look it up heh 16:04 wizzyrea or somesuch 16:04 wizzyrea so like, 30 years average use 16:04 atz Sharon: yeah, i believe john beppu worked on those 16:04 wizzyrea isn't the wear cycle of flash memory on the order of 5-10 years continuous use though? 16:04 Sharon unrelated, we just noticed the new Item Checkout and Item Check in options in the messaging. cool beans 16:03 atz yeah, since it's not supposed to be disposable 16:03 pianohacker And I image they would use slightly higher-quality flash memory, so it would last longer 16:03 wizzyrea lol 16:03 wizzyrea ok ok you win 16:02 atz USB 2 < ATA < SCSI 16:02 wizzyrea Bah. You have an answer for everything ;) 16:02 atz wizzyrea: bandwidth 16:01 wizzyrea why are SSD's so expensive again? 16:01 wizzyrea which to me just seems nuts 16:01 wizzyrea they have 30GB ones now that are around 30 bucks 16:01 pianohacker atz: ... and it's apparently dropped in the months since I got mine, wow 16:00 atz pianohacker: $30? try $5 16:00 pianohacker bluetooth++ 16:00 pianohacker Four years ago, a device the size of your thumb that can store 2GB of data for about 30 bucks would have seemed insane (it still does, really) 16:00 atz bluetooth data xfer for the environmentalists 15:59 Sharon or add their band logo tot he usb and sell it for $5 15:59 pianohacker The way flash memory's going, it'll probably be disposable usb drives 15:58 Sharon true 15:58 atz so they can make it to the next town 15:57 atz the real gap-bridger will be when your average touring band has a mechanism to sell MP3s *for cash* at the end of their shows 15:57 pianohacker Not a G1? :) 15:57 wizzyrea I'm working on her though. She'd get more benefit from an iPhone I think ;) 15:56 wizzyrea atz: I have a friend who still only buys CD's just so she can show everyone what a music snob she is. So yes, I agree. 15:56 Sharon I don't own an ipod yet, I'm still old skool 15:54 atz CDs are the vinyl of the rather immediate future. 15:54 pianohacker I confess I have never even heard of alt-country 15:53 Sharon all the music CDs I donated to my library haven't circulated either...nobody likes alt country, I guess. 15:53 wizzyrea ILL! 15:52 pianohacker Heh. Would be a bit of an abuse of my friendship with the acq people; the HTML book I donated last year still has not been checked out, to my knowledge 15:51 atz :) 15:51 atz you work for a library right? 15:50 pianohacker Yeah. It's looking like I'll need a copy of that book if I want to keep developing in this wacky language 15:49 atz just go for clarity 15:49 atz pianohacker: mostly whatever perl best practices says 15:48 pianohacker atz: Is there a Koha source convention on using parens for language-core functions ( like split )? 15:47 wizzyrea I'll go lookk just thought maybe someone might know right off 15:47 wizzyrea from amazon 15:46 wizzyrea does anybody know is there a "report this cover art as <insert negative adjective here>" functionality for book covers? 15:43 wizzyrea iknorite 15:43 atz heh 15:43 wizzyrea lol 15:43 wizzyrea so... try google? 15:43 wizzyrea but we like that functionality... 15:43 wizzyrea hm. So. Turning it off fixes it 15:43 Sharon those stephanie meyer books are just so popular, they test the limits 15:42 pianohacker Sharon: Gah, New Moon seemed to highlight several bugs in our koha too 15:42 atz valid/invalid HTML, crazy formatting hacks from the 90's, etc. 15:42 atz not much quality control @amazon apparently... the just let publishers throw whatever code in there that they want 15:41 atz np, doesn't matter 15:41 wizzyrea checking, sorry stepped away for a sec 15:40 wizzyrea atz = epic win 15:40 wizzyrea it loads now 15:40 wizzyrea is amazon 15:40 atz wizzyrea: did you have a chance to check firebug for the content-type? 15:40 Sharon let's look 15:39 wizzyrea dk, let me turn it off 15:39 atz same publisher? (i.e., same amazon content originator) 15:38 Sharon I have a list of problematic bibs - Max, Twilight, Eclipse, New Moon 15:38 atz don't know how it would cause the encoding though... if it couldn't process it, you would just get a clean 500 error 15:38 atz wizzyrea: interesting. 15:37 wizzyrea and only on high hold items 15:37 wizzyrea since this just started happening with the last patches 15:37 wizzyrea 2 possibly being more relevant than 1 15:37 wizzyrea but will try turning off amazn 15:37 wizzyrea the only thing that is "weird" about this bib is that 1. it has a gazillion items and 2. it has bunches of holds 15:37 atz please try disabling it. if the records view fine, then we at least know the culprit. 15:36 Sharon think we should turn off amazon for awhile? 15:36 wizzyrea yessir, we are 15:35 Sharon atz Liz is in the lab with us discussing stuff. She's on her way back to the office. 15:35 atz i think ryan found that amazon sends back some insane data for certain items 15:34 atz wizzyrea: using amazon content? 15:32 atz a friend of a friend admins for pastebin.... he was saying ppl put *all kinds* of personal/confidential info in there 15:27 atz source looks normal 15:27 atz wizzyrea: possible gzip compression error? 15:21 wizzyrea doesn't look too suspicious to me 15:19 wizzyrea source 15:19 wizzyrea http://pastebin.com/d492dd6d4 15:18 wizzyrea http://www.screencast.com/users/lizrea/folders/Jing/media/0ac91f4c-c223-4b55-9cc3-ebb786ae4f71 15:18 wizzyrea this one is a little different 15:16 wizzyrea kk un moment 15:13 atz also check headers... see what the content type is 15:13 atz wizzyrea: can you "view source" and see if it is any different? 15:13 atz since that is the details page... the first chunk of the HTML, CSS, and JS are all going to be normal and change based on record data 15:12 atz but that level of browser confusion shouldn't be possible 15:12 atz wizzyrea: encoding 15:11 jwagner If you have the biblio number, export it and look at it in MarcEdit? 15:11 wizzyrea fwiw that's what I thought too. I don't really have a way to fix it though. :( 15:10 wizzyrea we can look at the marc view :/ 15:09 jwagner A corrupted MARC record? I've seen similar displays in other systems when the MARC got really screwed. 15:07 wizzyrea when viewing a normal bib detail in staff 15:07 wizzyrea can anybody tell me what would cause this: http://www.screencast.com/users/lizrea/folders/Jing/media/42d29d28-5fa6-4ac7-817d-42e944400e90 15:02 wizzyrea snuggled with a conundrum 15:00 jwagner It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma? 14:57 wizzyrea so, jwagner, you can see that we're all in a muddle with holds :P 14:54 wizzyrea hehe, sorry. it's confusing 14:54 wizzyrea to be transferred, back on 14:54 atz "to be transferred, back on" or "to be transferred back, on" ? 14:53 wizzyrea which is (apparently?) a new behavior we're seeing now 14:53 wizzyrea let me rephrase... koha shouldn't put items that are in the courier bin to be transferred back on the holds queue list 14:52 atz ? 14:52 atz so you are just looking to add a status on pick list that indicates "you say you sent this already, but they haven't confirmed yet" 14:51 atz not sure what you mean. the message saying effectively "send it back" doesn't have anything to do w/ holds 14:51 atz same thing as would happen in any case "This item belongs to Branch A. Initiate Transfer?" 14:51 atz no, it goes normal 14:51 wizzyrea in addition to this deal with the queuing of holds going funny when someone cancels a hold 14:50 wizzyrea which is something we're seeing now 14:50 wizzyrea (hold queue) 14:50 wizzyrea right, in a normal circumstance it would say "branch A sent it" until branch B receives it, but it didn't always put items that had been transferred back on the sending branch's pick list 14:49 wizzyrea atm? 14:49 wizzyrea if branch b checks it in, and the hold doesn't exist, this process goes fubar? 14:48 atz wizzyrea: the 1st, i think 14:48 atz yeah... it's still in a "branch A says they sent it" status until branch B says "we got it" 14:48 wizzyrea 2nd, right? 14:48 wizzyrea or because the hold that is targetting doesn't exist 14:47 atz does that make sense? 14:47 wizzyrea because it hasn't been received 14:46 atz (triggering pickup notices) 14:46 atz and because the system won't know it is in the right branch now 14:46 atz it can't go straight to the shelf because the user might have cancelled the hold during (undetermined time of) the transfer 14:45 wizzyrea yes, on the shelf 14:45 atz the workflow is to recieve the item .... 14:45 wizzyrea oh, right 14:45 atz no, i mean after transferral 14:45 wizzyrea to be transferred 14:45 wizzyrea or in the courier bin 14:45 atz and then it goes on the hold shelf 14:45 wizzyrea right, right 14:44 atz at that checkin, the normal alert "This is on hold for user X" asks for confirmation 14:44 wizzyrea the reporting library has pretty low human error rate on transferring holds out 14:44 atz the workflow is to receive the item (checking it in), because who knows, maybe the user cancelled the hold, right? 14:43 atz yeah, i'm guessing that's what it is. 14:43 wizzyrea it = koha 14:43 wizzyrea so it thought it was still at the transferring library 14:43 wizzyrea probably the item was in the bin but the transfer didn't get registered? 14:42 wizzyrea but they were definitely transferred out (slips printed as evidence) correctly 14:42 wizzyrea it probably was in a courier bin 14:41 atz wizzyrea: did the receiving branch not confirm the hold when they checked in the book? 14:41 jwagner So it's on the pick list at both branches? Not likely to be our problem (single branch), but holds are gnarly in general.... 14:39 wizzyrea yea, and the transferring branch gets the book on the pick list again 14:38 jwagner transferred between branches? 14:38 wizzyrea is issue 1 14:38 wizzyrea books have been transferred, they show up on the pick list the next day 14:37 wizzyrea oi, I can try 14:36 jwagner wizzyrea, can you describe the holds problem? I'm still having trouble here. 14:35 wizzyrea I have more examples, if you need them (you probably don't) 14:35 wizzyrea kk ty 14:35 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yeah, just reply w/subject intact 14:34 wizzyrea or just reply w/ subject intact 14:34 wizzyrea is there a way with your ticketing to make sure that a further info reply attaches to a specific ticket? 14:33 gmcharlt for now 14:33 wizzyrea the queuing? 14:33 wizzyrea k. cool. So the workaround is to set the numbering manually? 14:31 gmcharlt LL bug at moment - I'll make sure it's added to koha bug DB later today 14:31 wizzyrea is that LL bug or a koha bug? Number? 14:30 gmcharlt wizzyrea: it's on my bug list 14:30 wizzyrea ^.^ 14:30 wizzyrea we don't really understand the message we got from cookie 14:29 wizzyrea idk if you're in the loop on the bizarre hold pick list problems we're having? 14:29 gmcharlt wizzyrea: what's up? 14:29 wizzyrea rhcl or gmcharlt: have a min? 14:07 atz yeah, that actually is proper "wiki style" afaik 14:07 gmcharlt simpler for future may be requiring use of signatures on certain pages 14:05 slef oooh look, gmcharlt wrote it all 14:04 gmcharlt *then* use git-blame :) 14:04 gmcharlt we could always export each version of every page, and feed results into a git repo 14:03 slef s/a couple of/ 14:03 slef atz: try using it to find who wrote what on http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=bugreportingfornewbies - I think we have a practical problem with attributing across several versions of a couple of at least three wiki sites :-/ 14:02 gmcharlt but I'm not finding a plugin that does it automatically 14:02 gmcharlt a blame/annotation mode could be built 14:01 atz but i don't know any way to get git-blame style info 14:01 atz slef: wiki has built in "diff" view (side by side comparison) 13:59 slef much less for parts of them 13:59 slef I'm not confident that I could find who was the author for wiki pages 13:58 slef is there an equivalent of git annotate for the wiki? 13:57 gmcharlt by that can be done by CC0 + a request that reusers consider attribution 13:57 gmcharlt I feel that retaining attribution is a Feature 13:56 gmcharlt slef: my preference is descending order is CC-BY, CC0, outright public domain dedication (but may as well do CC0), CC-BY-SA 13:54 gmcharlt slef: CC0 is OK with me as an alternative license 13:54 gmcharlt and ensuring that any other new features in 3.0.x don't disappear unexpected after upgrade to tip 13:53 gmcharlt particularly managing the DB schema 13:53 gmcharlt my main concern is that there ends up being a clean path to upgrade 3.0.x installations to 3.2 in the future 13:53 gmcharlt & hold fixes 13:52 gmcharlt backporting support for enhanced content providers is reasonable 13:52 hdl_laptop1 I think we can discuss it tonight. 13:52 hdl_laptop1 does that sound realistic and ok ? 13:52 hdl_laptop1 release this time without those features and then announce reconciliation and integration of those features. 13:51 hdl_laptop1 I would like to : 13:51 hdl_laptop1 Are new things. 13:51 hdl_laptop1 LT Babeltheque and all the fixes on holds and Branchtransfer limit. 13:50 hdl_laptop1 But 13:50 hdl_laptop1 I told there would be no NEW feature. only bugfixes. 13:50 hdl_laptop1 Problem is : 13:50 hdl_laptop1 but I will let you judge it. 13:49 gmcharlt yep 13:49 hdl_laptop1 It might be considered as 1st step towards reconciliation. 13:49 hdl_laptop1 It is about 200 commits. 13:48 hdl_laptop1 only based on cherry picking. 13:48 gmcharlt cool 13:48 hdl_laptop1 gmcharlt: I have worked on 3.0.2 13:48 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: yes, thank you 13:48 hdl_laptop1 gmcharlt: are you better now ? 13:36 gmcharlt if it's any consolation, I did find the WTFPL funny 13:35 slef I also didn't link the WTFPL because it's NSFW and I didn't want that flamewar 13:35 slef http://www.debian.org/legal/licenses/ is a summary and I didn't list lots of ambiguous cases 13:34 slef sure - there are examples of both main and not distributable 13:34 gmcharlt slef: not that you could tell from http://www.debian.org/legal/licenses/ 13:33 slef it's being allowed in for now, but there's considerable uncertainty about the TPM/DRM ban 13:32 slef never trust wikis without citations 13:31 gmcharlt CC-BY is fine 13:31 gmcharlt https://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses#CreativeCommonsShare-Alike.28CC-SA.29v3.0 13:20 slef http://creativecommons.org/about/cc0 13:18 slef looking 13:18 slef it appeared since I was on the debian-CC working group 13:17 slef at least I think it is - I've not looked in detail at it yet 13:17 slef CC0 is another option if you really want some sort of CC 13:17 slef I licensed today's new page under the WTFPL just to be silly 13:16 slef CC-BY-SA would be incompatible with anything GPL'd I think, so CC-By may be better 13:05 gmcharlt *CC-BY 13:05 gmcharlt re wiki, is CC-BY-SA ok, or would you want it plain CC-CY 13:04 slef FDL particularly irks me. A non-free-software licence from the Free Software Foundation which allows adware and is impractical for most documentation 13:03 slef I guess the wiki should probably be something very free-for-all or GPL 13:02 slef neither FDL or (nearly all) CC are FOSS licences 13:02 slef no, should be GPL 12:57 gmcharlt currently GPL, should be GFDL or CC (or both) 12:57 gmcharlt as a side note, it looks like clarifying the manual's license is in order 12:56 gmcharlt slef: just sent out an RFC for relicensing the wiki 12:51 slef heh http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/grahamjones/~3/-Ci1gIJxWnw/your-work-will-deteriorate-if-people-are-rude-on-twitter.html 12:14 gmcharlt anybody who's created a page should be included as well 12:14 gmcharlt hmm - actually, no that's not good enough 12:13 gmcharlt so I propose that voting be open to anybody who's made more than say 5 edits 12:13 gmcharlt slef: dokuwiki changelogs most easily give me the number of times a user made an edit 12:06 gmcharlt slef: thanks 12:02 slef sending