IRC log for #koha, 2008-01-22

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:56 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: phasefx_
12:57 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el
13:12 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: archimbaud
13:13 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: archimbaud
13:13 frederic Hi
13:23 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: phasefx_
13:24 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el
13:25 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: phasefx_
13:27 hdl kados ?
14:01 kados hi hdl
14:09 paul hi kados
14:12 kados hiya paul
14:14 paul (in fact, I think my train ticket has been stolen, but that's another story...)
14:15 kados :(
14:15 kados no heat in the house and it's quite cold in Ohio atm :-)
14:16 paul (does it mean some fever or the heat in your appartment ?)
14:16 paul woops...
14:16 kados (no heat in my apartment)
14:16 kados :-)
14:16 paul and hdl feces some problems to come to code4lib (as you may have seen on ggl groups)
14:16 kados about 7 degrees Celsius
14:16 kados yes, I saw that
14:17 paul +7° ? outside or IN your home ?
14:17 kados hhe, outside
14:20 paul git is quite calm since 1 week. does it means things are stabilized, or there are zillions of patches waiting impatiently for your approval ?
14:23 kados paul: no patches waiting, excelt a couple
14:23 kados paul: i think it's because people are on holiday :-)
14:23 paul (including some from me ;-) )
14:23 paul are there holidays in US now ?
14:24 kados today is MLK day
14:24 paul MLK ?
14:24 paul Milk ?
14:24 kados Martin Luther King
14:25 kados civil rights leader
14:26 kados I'm sure :-)
14:43 gmcharlt greetings #koha
15:04 gmcharlt paul: about?
15:04 paul yep
15:04 paul hello gmcharlt
15:04 gmcharlt hi paul -- how are you doing?
15:04 paul (will leave in something like 1 hour)
15:04 paul not that fine today...
15:04 gmcharlt quick question about the 995 and SUDOC recommendations
15:05 gmcharlt (shouldn't be too bad :) )in both scenarios, exactly one field is used for each item
15:05 gmcharlt i.e., you don't have the data for one item split over two tags, correct?
15:06 paul yes, correct (although SUDOC can handle that, librarians using it all says that they never need so many informations)
15:06 paul (I mean : SUDOC can have items information splitted in 930, 917 and some other fields I don't remember atm)
15:07 paul (915,917,919,930,931,932,955,956,9​57,958,980,985,990,991,992,997,999 !!!
15:08 paul (ha had the paper just near me. don't ask me to give to you, it's not publicly accessible, which is really ridiculous...)
15:08 gmcharlt paul: OK, thanks
15:08 gmcharlt and yikes! re SUDOC
15:08 paul (I only have a print made from a place that can look at it)
15:08 gmcharlt non_electronically_accessible_standards--
15:08 paul note that they are really cutting hairs in 10 or more, as we have :
15:08 paul - call number
15:08 paul - local cll number
15:08 paul - previous call number
15:09 paul - future call number
15:09 gmcharlt pluferfect call number?
15:10 paul pluferfect ???
15:10 gmcharlt or should I say plus que parfait call number?
15:10 paul lol
15:32 frederic Kados? gmcharlt?
15:32 gmcharlt hi frederic
15:33 frederic You (kados) said yesterday that some improvements to autorities were to be expected in the 1st February beta release.
15:33 frederic Will it include a better handling of autority/biblio synchronization?
15:33 frederic Lets explain...
15:33 gmcharlt frederic: that's one of my goals
15:34 frederic When you add a biblio record in koha with the web interface (, biblio fields linked with thesaurus are used to add/update authorities if there is syspref BiblioAddsAuthorities. A function do that: BiblioAddAuthorities.
15:34 frederic But when you add a biblio record programmaticaly ( or a specific program), authorities aren't updated.
15:34 frederic Wouldn't it have sense to move this function (BiblioAddAuthorities) from to
15:34 gmcharlt frederic: yes, i agree that this needs to be moved to C4 instead of
15:35 frederic I don't understand well Koha architecture... So...
15:35 gmcharlt also, that batch jobs need to treat authority handling the same way as adding a bib from the web interface
15:58 matthew Hello. I've got a database dump error I have a question about.
15:58 matthew mysqldump: Got error: 1016: Can't open file: 'marc_subfield_table.MYI' (errno: 145) when using LOCK TABLES
16:00 matthew I've researched error 1016 and it seems as if I can delete the corresponding .frm file (/var/lib/mysql/Koha/marc_subfield_table.frm) to fix the problem. Does anyone have experience with an issue like this?
16:21 matthew I backup up the file by moving it to another location. I then ran msqyl dump again and it seems to work. The funny thing is that the dump is much smaller than previous dumps. I hope I'm getting all my information.
16:44 gmcharlt hdl: about?
16:44 hdl yes
16:44 hdl hi galen
16:44 gmcharlt hi henri
16:44 gmcharlt about to finish up work on items and send through your patches
16:45 gmcharlt had a question about the last one you sent, adding an eval to _add_unlinked_marc_fields
16:45 gmcharlt under what conditions did the add_subfields call fail?
16:49 fbcit g'morning koha
16:49 gmcharlt hi fbcit
16:49 fbcit where do I setup Patron types (as opposed to categories)?
16:50 fbcit I would think under "Patron types and categories", but I seem to be missing it.
16:50 gmcharlt fbcit: patron category == patron type
16:50 kados fbcit: types are hard-coded in Koha 3.0
16:50 kados gmcharlt: not quite :-)
16:51 fbcit hrmmm...
16:51 kados types = Adult, Child, Professional, Organization
16:51 fbcit I saw sample types
16:51 kados then categories can be built off of those types
16:51 fbcit so just another db field?
16:51 kados fbcit: sample types? I think you mean sample categories
16:51 fbcit maybe so...
16:51 gmcharlt kados: what most systems refer to as type is category in Koha, I should have said
16:51 fbcit kados: so I can just edit the db directly to adjust types?
16:52 gmcharlt also, editor for patron category refers to a "category type", not a "patron type"
16:52 kados yea, so you can have, say, 25 patron categories of type 'Adult'
16:52 kados Student, Patron, Homebound, etc.
16:53 kados oh, maybe the label is wrong in the patron editor
16:53 gmcharlt personally, I'd prefer fully spelled-out "patron category type" rather than plain "patron type"
16:53 hdl gmcharlt: it failed whe ppl tried to add void item.
16:54 gmcharlt hdl: thanks -- and how would a void item be attempted -- in serials receiving?
16:54 fbcit kados: so category type == patron type?
16:54 fbcit and patron == category?
16:55 kados fbcit: I think I understand what you mean, and yes :-)
16:55 kados there's no such thing as a 'category type' in Koha
16:55 hdl gmcharlt: yes. I found that the old bug I fixed came up again.
16:55 kados there are 'types' and 'categories'
16:55 hdl gmcharlt:  I have to fix it.
16:55 gmcharlt kados: then language in edit category page needs to be changed
16:55 kados types are hard-coded: Adult, Child, Proffessional, Organization, and Staff
16:55 kados and you can build out Categories from there
16:56 hdl bbs
16:56 kados so you can have a Category called 'Homebound' which is of type 'adult'
16:56 kados and another called 'Under 12' which is of type 'Child' (and child accounts have guarantors)
16:56 fbcit k, so types are the LCD?
16:56 kados yea
16:57 kados so a label for 'Category type:' shoud probably be re-named as 'Type:'
16:57 kados I assume it lists the five hard-coded types?
16:57 fbcit yup
16:57 kados yea, so it's miss-labeled
16:58 kados should just be 'Type'
16:58 kados someone recently said they wanted to be able to customize the 'Types'
16:58 fbcit I remembered that discussion.
16:58 kados so maybe that will be in 3.2 or a future version
16:58 fbcit shouldn't be too hard.
16:58 kados *nod*
16:58 kados hehe
17:00 fbcit kados: so "types" also show up as "Patron types/categories" in the New Patron section....?
17:01 fbcit or rather...
17:01 fbcit I can have patrons that are members of a type as opposed to a category?
17:02 kados ?
17:02 kados no, you can only have patrons that are members of a category
17:02 kados but the categories are grouped by type :-)
17:02 fbcit kados: with no categories built...
17:02 fbcit I go to add a patron....
17:02 kados I think you have to add a category
17:03 fbcit and the "New" button displays the five types as options.
17:03 kados yea, but I don't think you can choose them
17:03 fbcit :)
17:03 kados try it :-)
17:04 kados interesting
17:04 fbcit seems a restraint is missing?
17:04 kados well, that's a bug, I don't think you should be able to assign a raw type to a patron, you should be forced to first defined some categories
17:04 fbcit I agree based on what I have learned in the past 5 min.
17:04 kados chris cormack is our resident circ and patrons expert, so he'd be the one to ask
17:05 fbcit How about I open a bug on it and he can close it if it is by design?
17:05 kados sounds good
19:39 fbcit kados: so what other logic is based on patron 'type' other than 'category'?
19:41 fbcit gmcharlt ?
19:42 gmcharlt fbcit: it's all tied to patron categories
19:42 gmcharlt but functionally, type 'S' is for staff (user) records
19:42 gmcharlt 'C' for child implies an 'A' adult as a guarantor
19:43 gmcharlt and no doubt other implications
19:43 gmcharlt chris is now around to ask as well
19:43 atz there are age limits
19:44 atz different circ and fine structure, enrollment fees, etc.
19:44 fbcit I'm just wondering what I'll have to contend with if I work toward making 'type' user-definable...
19:45 chris id leave that for 3.2
19:45 atz it breaks everything, imho
19:45 fbcit :-(
19:45 chris i didnt do the type things, not im not quite sure
19:45 atz for example, we have a script that used to work... promote juvenile members to adults
19:45 atz check if they juveniles are 18, if so, convert them to adults
19:46 atz but it gets messed up with all the other stuff
19:46 gmcharlt yeah, for user-definiability, patron_types table would have to have columns for behavior, like patron_types.needs_guarantor, patron_types.can_be_staff_user, etc.
19:46 gmcharlt at least as one approach
19:46 chris but from my bugfixing i have done, im fairly sure it would be quite a bit of effort to change, and unlikely to get accepted for 3.0
19:46 fbcit that's the info I was looking for... I'm sufficiently scared off now... ;-)
19:46 atz patron_types.can_be_promoted_to = @{....};
19:47 atz patron_types.must_be_promoted_to = $...;
19:47 atz patron_types.new_enrollment_fee_applies_for =@{...}
19:48 atz it seems like an easy thing, right?
19:48 atz all the kids who aren't kids yet, make'm adult users.
19:48 fbcit hehe
19:48 atz *anymore (not yet)
19:48 fbcit how about the adults who are not adults yet...
19:49 atz don't give'm cards   :)
09:07 custard hiho. If Koha 3.0 is running on MacOS, do the z39.50 lookups work?
09:08 chris yes
09:08 chris assuming your mac isnt behind a firewall blocking them that is :)
09:08 custard have to find that one out.
09:09 chris you can try from the commandline with yaz
09:09 chris if that works, then from koha should too
09:09 custard Was looking at it for a rather large and diverse home collection, and really wasn't looking forward to entering it all in by hand.
09:09 chris chances are it will work fine
09:21 lloyd_ hey chris, you go a mo?
09:22 chris yep
09:23 lloyd_ staged an import, searched for it in cataloguing, added biblio... but not coming up in search?
09:23 chris ahh i may have forgotten to start the reindexing daemon
09:23 chris 2 secs
09:24 lloyd_ ah ha
09:26 chris hows that now?
09:26 custard I read that there's some things that are being replaced in 3.0? Is there much variation in the dependencies and install process?
09:26 lloyd_ perfect!
09:27 chris /etc/init.d/koha-zebraqueue-daemon restart
09:27 chris is what i did
09:27 lloyd_ cool, didnt know it was stopped hehe
09:27 chris yeah i stopped it to reindex manually to clear out the deleted records (faster than letting the queue do it one by one) but didnt restart
09:28 chris custard: the install for 3 is much nicer than for 2.2
09:29 chris the INSTALL file should explain it all
09:29 chris i know of at least 3 people who have it running on OS X
09:30 lloyd_ when in the cataloguing menu and you search, then click add.. any way to stop people from editing that page and going directly to the one after (when you click save)
09:30 chris so that they cant change what they are adding?
09:30 custard Righto. Thanks :)
09:30 lloyd_ exactly
09:31 chris currently no
09:31 lloyd_ they'll be able to add new items, but not change what they're adding
09:32 lloyd_ I guess that wouldnt work so well.. if they added an item chances are they'll want to edit it at some stage
09:32 chris *nod*
09:32 lloyd_ but we don't want them changing paid for marc records
09:32 chris currently if you can add you can edit
09:33 chris sounds like a tech solution for a human problem :-)
09:33 chris but thats often the way
09:33 lloyd_ you got it :)
09:33 chris life would be so much easier if you could trust users :-)
09:34 chris we could do something with permissions
09:34 chris split them
09:34 lloyd_ 28 branches, all independent...  trusting would be unwise
09:34 chris to allow for editing items, but not editing records
09:35 chris so you could add or edit an item, but not change the marc record .. ... but i guess its only some records
09:35 lloyd_ yeah that would be great for all the items that have been imported
09:37 lloyd_ say they added a record that wasn't in the pool. then added the item, what would they be able to change in the item?
09:38 chris hmm anything at the item level
09:38 chris classification, branch, barcode etc
09:39 lloyd_ and if they spooned it when adding, they would need to add it again and request the other record be deleted by the super librarian?
09:39 chris yep
09:40 chris or anyone who had record editing privs
09:40 lloyd_ what if 1 month later we get a proper marc record for it. Easy to replace the made up record with the proper marc record?
09:45 chris with the new cataloguing tool, biblios (which was worked on over the google summer of code) and is nearing completion yet
09:45 chris yet=yep
10:05 lloyd_ great. in for 3.0 final?
10:10 hdl chris ?
10:11 hdl Your work for merging biblios will be integrated into 3.X ?
10:31 lloyd_ he's gone to bed now

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