Time  Nick     Message
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13:13 frederic Hi
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13:27 hdl      kados ?
14:01 kados    hi hdl
14:09 paul     hi kados
14:12 kados    hiya paul
14:14 paul     (in fact, I think my train ticket has been stolen, but that's another story...)
14:15 kados    :(
14:15 kados    no heat in the house and it's quite cold in Ohio atm :-)
14:16 paul     (does it mean some fever or the heat in your appartment ?)
14:16 paul     woops...
14:16 kados    (no heat in my apartment)
14:16 kados     :-)
14:16 paul     and hdl feces some problems to come to code4lib (as you may have seen on ggl groups)
14:16 kados    about 7 degrees Celsius
14:16 kados    yes, I saw that
14:17 paul     +7° ? outside or IN your home ?
14:17 kados    hhe, outside
14:20 paul     git is quite calm since 1 week. does it means things are stabilized, or there are zillions of patches waiting impatiently for your approval ?
14:23 kados    paul: no patches waiting, excelt a couple
14:23 kados    paul: i think it's because people are on holiday :-)
14:23 paul     (including some from me ;-) )
14:23 paul     are there holidays in US now ?
14:24 kados    today is MLK day
14:24 paul     MLK ?
14:24 paul     Milk ?
14:24 kados    Martin Luther King
14:25 kados    civil rights leader
14:26 kados    I'm sure :-)
14:43 gmcharlt greetings #koha
15:04 gmcharlt paul: about?
15:04 paul     yep
15:04 paul     hello gmcharlt
15:04 gmcharlt hi paul -- how are you doing?
15:04 paul     (will leave in something like 1 hour)
15:04 paul     not that fine today...
15:04 gmcharlt quick question about the 995 and SUDOC recommendations
15:05 gmcharlt (shouldn't be too bad :) )in both scenarios, exactly one field is used for each item
15:05 gmcharlt i.e., you don't have the data for one item split over two tags, correct?
15:06 paul     yes, correct (although SUDOC can handle that, librarians using it all says that they never need so many informations)
15:06 paul     (I mean : SUDOC can have items information splitted in 930, 917 and some other fields I don't remember atm)
15:07 paul     (915,917,919,930,931,932,955,956,957,958,980,985,990,991,992,997,999 !!!
15:08 paul     (ha had the paper just near me. don't ask me to give to you, it's not publicly accessible, which is really ridiculous...)
15:08 gmcharlt paul: OK, thanks
15:08 gmcharlt and yikes! re SUDOC
15:08 paul     (I only have a print made from a place that can look at it)
15:08 gmcharlt non_electronically_accessible_standards--
15:08 paul     note that they are really cutting hairs in 10 or more, as we have :
15:08 paul     - call number
15:08 paul     - local cll number
15:08 paul     - previous call number
15:09 paul     - future call number
15:09 gmcharlt pluferfect call number?
15:10 paul     pluferfect ???
15:10 gmcharlt or should I say plus que parfait call number?
15:10 paul     lol
15:32 frederic Kados? gmcharlt?
15:32 gmcharlt hi frederic
15:33 frederic You (kados) said yesterday that some improvements to autorities were to be expected in the 1st February beta release.
15:33 frederic Will it include a better handling of autority/biblio synchronization?
15:33 frederic Lets explain...
15:33 gmcharlt frederic: that's one of my goals
15:34 frederic When you add a biblio record in koha with the web interface (addbiblio.pl), biblio fields linked with thesaurus are used to add/update authorities if there is syspref BiblioAddsAuthorities. A function do that: BiblioAddAuthorities.
15:34 frederic But when you add a biblio record programmaticaly (bulkmarcimport.pl or a specific program), authorities aren't updated.
15:34 frederic Wouldn't it have sense to move this function (BiblioAddAuthorities) from addbiblio.pl to Biblio.pm?
15:34 gmcharlt frederic: yes, i agree that this needs to be moved to C4 instead of addbiblio.pl
15:35 frederic I don't understand well Koha architecture... So...
15:35 gmcharlt also, that batch jobs need to treat authority handling the same way as adding a bib from the web interface
15:58 matthew  Hello. I've got a database dump error I have a question about.
15:58 matthew  mysqldump: Got error: 1016: Can't open file: 'marc_subfield_table.MYI' (errno: 145) when using LOCK TABLES
16:00 matthew  I've researched error 1016 and it seems as if I can delete the corresponding .frm file (/var/lib/mysql/Koha/marc_subfield_table.frm) to fix the problem. Does anyone have experience with an issue like this?
16:21 matthew  I backup up the file by moving it to another location. I then ran msqyl dump again and it seems to work. The funny thing is that the dump is much smaller than previous dumps. I hope I'm getting all my information.
16:44 gmcharlt hdl: about?
16:44 hdl      yes
16:44 hdl      hi galen
16:44 gmcharlt hi henri
16:44 gmcharlt about to finish up work on items and send through your patches
16:45 gmcharlt had a question about the last one you sent, adding an eval to _add_unlinked_marc_fields
16:45 gmcharlt under what conditions did the add_subfields call fail?
16:49 fbcit    g'morning koha
16:49 gmcharlt hi fbcit
16:49 fbcit    where do I setup Patron types (as opposed to categories)?
16:50 fbcit    I would think under "Patron types and categories", but I seem to be missing it.
16:50 gmcharlt fbcit: patron category == patron type
16:50 kados    fbcit: types are hard-coded in Koha 3.0
16:50 kados    gmcharlt: not quite :-)
16:51 fbcit    hrmmm...
16:51 kados    types = Adult, Child, Professional, Organization
16:51 fbcit    I saw sample types
16:51 kados    then categories can be built off of those types
16:51 fbcit    so just another db field?
16:51 kados    fbcit: sample types? I think you mean sample categories
16:51 fbcit    maybe so...
16:51 gmcharlt kados: what most systems refer to as type is category in Koha, I should have said
16:51 fbcit    kados: so I can just edit the db directly to adjust types?
16:52 gmcharlt also, editor for patron category refers to a "category type", not a "patron type"
16:52 kados    yea, so you can have, say, 25 patron categories of type 'Adult'
16:52 kados    Student, Patron, Homebound, etc.
16:53 kados    oh, maybe the label is wrong in the patron editor
16:53 gmcharlt personally, I'd prefer fully spelled-out "patron category type" rather than plain "patron type"
16:53 hdl      gmcharlt: it failed whe ppl tried to add void item.
16:54 gmcharlt hdl: thanks -- and how would a void item be attempted -- in serials receiving?
16:54 fbcit    kados: so category type == patron type?
16:54 fbcit    and patron == category?
16:55 kados    fbcit: I think I understand what you mean, and yes :-)
16:55 kados    there's no such thing as a 'category type' in Koha
16:55 hdl      gmcharlt: yes. I found that the old bug I fixed came up again.
16:55 kados    there are 'types' and 'categories'
16:55 hdl      gmcharlt:  I have to fix it.
16:55 gmcharlt kados: then language in edit category page needs to be changed
16:55 kados    types are hard-coded: Adult, Child, Proffessional, Organization, and Staff
16:55 kados    and you can build out Categories from there
16:56 hdl      bbs
16:56 kados    so you can have a Category called 'Homebound' which is of type 'adult'
16:56 kados    and another called 'Under 12' which is of type 'Child' (and child accounts have guarantors)
16:56 fbcit    k, so types are the LCD?
16:56 kados    yea
16:57 kados    so a label for 'Category type:' shoud probably be re-named as 'Type:'
16:57 kados    I assume it lists the five hard-coded types?
16:57 fbcit    yup
16:57 kados    yea, so it's miss-labeled
16:58 kados    should just be 'Type'
16:58 kados    someone recently said they wanted to be able to customize the 'Types'
16:58 fbcit    I remembered that discussion.
16:58 kados    so maybe that will be in 3.2 or a future version
16:58 fbcit    shouldn't be too hard.
16:58 kados    *nod*
16:58 kados    hehe
17:00 fbcit    kados: so "types" also show up as "Patron types/categories" in the New Patron section....?
17:01 fbcit    or rather...
17:01 fbcit    I can have patrons that are members of a type as opposed to a category?
17:02 kados    ?
17:02 kados    no, you can only have patrons that are members of a category
17:02 kados    but the categories are grouped by type :-)
17:02 fbcit    kados: with no categories built...
17:02 fbcit    I go to add a patron....
17:02 kados    I think you have to add a category
17:03 fbcit    and the "New" button displays the five types as options.
17:03 kados    yea, but I don't think you can choose them
17:03 fbcit    :)
17:03 kados    try it :-)
17:04 kados    interesting
17:04 fbcit    seems a restraint is missing?
17:04 kados    well, that's a bug, I don't think you should be able to assign a raw type to a patron, you should be forced to first defined some categories
17:04 fbcit    I agree based on what I have learned in the past 5 min.
17:04 kados    chris cormack is our resident circ and patrons expert, so he'd be the one to ask
17:05 fbcit    How about I open a bug on it and he can close it if it is by design?
17:05 kados    sounds good
19:39 fbcit    kados: so what other logic is based on patron 'type' other than 'category'?
19:41 fbcit    gmcharlt ?
19:42 gmcharlt fbcit: it's all tied to patron categories
19:42 gmcharlt but functionally, type 'S' is for staff (user) records
19:42 gmcharlt 'C' for child implies an 'A' adult as a guarantor
19:43 gmcharlt and no doubt other implications
19:43 gmcharlt chris is now around to ask as well
19:43 atz      there are age limits
19:44 atz      different circ and fine structure, enrollment fees, etc.
19:44 fbcit    I'm just wondering what I'll have to contend with if I work toward making 'type' user-definable...
19:45 chris    id leave that for 3.2
19:45 atz      it breaks everything, imho
19:45 fbcit    :-(
19:45 chris    i didnt do the type things, not im not quite sure
19:45 atz      for example, we have a script that used to work... promote juvenile members to adults
19:45 atz      check if they juveniles are 18, if so, convert them to adults
19:46 atz      but it gets messed up with all the other stuff
19:46 gmcharlt yeah, for user-definiability, patron_types table would have to have columns for behavior, like patron_types.needs_guarantor, patron_types.can_be_staff_user, etc.
19:46 gmcharlt at least as one approach
19:46 chris    but from my bugfixing i have done, im fairly sure it would be quite a bit of effort to change, and unlikely to get accepted for 3.0
19:46 fbcit    that's the info I was looking for... I'm sufficiently scared off now... ;-)
19:46 atz      patron_types.can_be_promoted_to = @{....};
19:47 atz      patron_types.must_be_promoted_to = $...;
19:47 atz      patron_types.new_enrollment_fee_applies_for =@{...}
19:48 atz      it seems like an easy thing, right?
19:48 atz      all the kids who aren't kids yet, make'm adult users.
19:48 fbcit    hehe
19:48 atz      *anymore (not yet)
19:48 fbcit    how about the adults who are not adults yet...
19:49 atz      don't give'm cards   :)
09:07 custard  hiho. If Koha 3.0 is running on MacOS, do the z39.50 lookups work?
09:08 chris    yes
09:08 chris    assuming your mac isnt behind a firewall blocking them that is :)
09:08 custard  have to find that one out.
09:09 chris    you can try from the commandline with yaz
09:09 chris    if that works, then from koha should too
09:09 custard  Was looking at it for a rather large and diverse home collection, and really wasn't looking forward to entering it all in by hand.
09:09 chris    chances are it will work fine
09:21 lloyd_   hey chris, you go a mo?
09:22 chris    yep
09:23 lloyd_   staged an import, searched for it in cataloguing, added biblio... but not coming up in search?
09:23 chris    ahh i may have forgotten to start the reindexing daemon
09:23 chris    2 secs
09:24 lloyd_   ah ha
09:26 chris    hows that now?
09:26 custard  I read that there's some things that are being replaced in 3.0? Is there much variation in the dependencies and install process?
09:26 lloyd_   perfect!
09:27 chris     /etc/init.d/koha-zebraqueue-daemon restart
09:27 chris    is what i did
09:27 lloyd_   cool, didnt know it was stopped hehe
09:27 chris    yeah i stopped it to reindex manually to clear out the deleted records (faster than letting the queue do it one by one) but didnt restart
09:28 chris    custard: the install for 3 is much nicer than for 2.2
09:29 chris    the INSTALL file should explain it all
09:29 chris    i know of at least 3 people who have it running on OS X
09:30 lloyd_   when in the cataloguing menu and you search, then click add.. any way to stop people from editing that page and going directly to the one after (when you click save)
09:30 chris    so that they cant change what they are adding?
09:30 custard  Righto. Thanks :)
09:30 lloyd_   exactly
09:31 chris    currently no
09:31 lloyd_   they'll be able to add new items, but not change what they're adding
09:32 lloyd_   I guess that wouldnt work so well.. if they added an item chances are they'll want to edit it at some stage
09:32 chris    *nod*
09:32 lloyd_   but we don't want them changing paid for marc records
09:32 chris    currently if you can add you can edit
09:33 chris    sounds like a tech solution for a human problem :-)
09:33 chris    but thats often the way
09:33 lloyd_   you got it :)
09:33 chris    life would be so much easier if you could trust users :-)
09:34 chris    we could do something with permissions
09:34 chris    split them
09:34 lloyd_   28 branches, all independent...  trusting would be unwise
09:34 chris    to allow for editing items, but not editing records
09:35 chris    so you could add or edit an item, but not change the marc record .. ... but i guess its only some records
09:35 lloyd_   yeah that would be great for all the items that have been imported
09:37 lloyd_   say they added a record that wasn't in the pool. then added the item, what would they be able to change in the item?
09:38 chris    hmm anything at the item level
09:38 chris    classification, branch, barcode etc
09:39 lloyd_   and if they spooned it when adding, they would need to add it again and request the other record be deleted by the super librarian?
09:39 chris    yep
09:40 chris    or anyone who had record editing privs
09:40 lloyd_   what if 1 month later we get a proper marc record for it. Easy to replace the made up record with the proper marc record?
09:45 chris    with the new cataloguing tool, biblios (which was worked on over the google summer of code) and is nearing completion yet
09:45 chris    yet=yep
10:05 lloyd_   great. in for 3.0 final?
10:10 hdl      chris ?
10:11 hdl      Your work for merging biblios will be integrated into 3.X ?
10:31 lloyd_   he's gone to bed now