IRC log for #koha, 2007-09-19

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:56 kados morning all
12:59 paul hello kados
13:03 owen Hi paul
13:04 paul hi owen.
13:04 masonj hi guys, im up too
13:04 owen I thought it was required by law in France :)
13:04 paul owen : I haven't seen any commit from monday. you had no success with patrons ?
13:05 paul owen : it's required by law , maybe, but i'm a Rebel :-D
13:05 owen paul, I submitted a patch, but it didn't get approved yet
13:05 paul ok. kados, feel free to approve owen patch then ;-)
13:05 paul I have a quick question for you :
13:05 paul http://i15.bureau.paulpoulain.[…]?borrowernumber=1
13:06 paul (login abel / abel)
13:06 paul there is a breadcrumb on the left and an "action" bar on the right (my css)
13:06 paul should not one of them be removed ?
13:07 paul (and if it's action, were should we store all actions that are not in breadcrumb ?)
13:07 owen Our plan was to have "views" on the left, and "actions" in a toolbar at the top of the main content area
13:07 paul Fines, Read reco, modif log are "views", right ?
13:08 owen yes
13:08 paul is there a page where it's done ?
13:08 owen No, unfortunately. That's next on our list
13:09 paul OK. So, next question :
13:09 paul http://i15.bureau.paulpoulain.[…]qui/
13:09 paul the menu on the left will disappeard, right ?
13:09 owen It will be replaced with an acquisitions-specific menu
13:10 paul (that is atm the "submenu" : "Add supplier, Late orders,...
13:10 paul right ?
13:10 owen Yes, and anything else that is missing
13:10 paul ???
13:11 owen I mean we can put anything we want in the menu, it doesn't have to be just like the one that's there now
13:11 paul but just acqui related things, isn't it ?
13:11 owen yes
13:11 paul OK
13:12 paul what about letting me play with acqui module design, to see if I have understood the concepts ?
13:13 owen Sure, I don't mind
13:13 paul which module do you consider as "most advanced"
13:13 paul (/me suspect a frenchism)
13:13 owen I'm not doing things module-by-module. I'm adding one piece to everything, then another piece to everything, etc.
13:13 owen For instance, toolbars are not done on any pages
13:13 owen Breadcrumbs are done for many pages
13:14 paul ok, so I may let you play with everything.
13:14 paul do you have an idea of the timeline to have something correct ?
13:25 owen Sorry, paul, I don't have a timeline. I know that is frustrating.
13:26 paul not frustating : very frustrating !
13:26 kados there are still non-template things we're waiting to finalize anyway
13:26 paul kados: installer is done and members on the way. anything else ?
13:27 kados for instance, we still need to 'walk the database' and make sure all the db design is correct
13:27 kados the installer is far from done
13:27 kados paul: have you tried it?
13:27 paul (something like half the bugs on are related to members & I plan to deal with them asap)
13:27 kados (cool)
13:27 paul kados: nope, could not find time for that
13:27 kados paul++
13:28 paul why, it does not work ?
13:29 kados the installer is not finished
13:31 paul what do you mean by "not finished" ? it is bugguy in what it does or it does not do everything ?
13:33 kados perhaps both
13:33 kados definitely doesn't do everything
13:33 kados for instance, it doesn't set up zebra at all
13:34 kados it's really just a matter of moving files into place
13:34 paul misc/ can help a lot anyway
13:34 kados but the installer doesn't do that yet
13:34 paul so, maybe the installer could do that.
13:34 paul Note that it depends wether you want Zebra or NoZebra ;-)
13:36 kados :_)
13:50 owen Paul, do you plan to do some template work?
13:50 paul not today. I'll wait for some more commits
13:51 paul + as kados spoke of the installer, i'll give it a try ;-)
13:53 owen Lots of other fun bugs in Bugzilla too ;)
13:53 paul affected to v3 ?
13:53 paul I see 16 bugs
13:55 owen There are also many marked "HEAD" which should be reviewed and corrected if they're not really v3 bugs
14:21 kados tim:
14:21 kados [Tue Sep 18 08:42:05 2007] [error] [client] Q2 : select distinct m1.bibid from biblio,biblioitems,marc_biblio,marc_word
14:21 kados as m1,marc_word as m2,marc_word as m3,marc_word as m4,marc_word as m5,marc_word as m6,marc_word as m7,marc_word as m8,marc_word as
14:21 kados m9 where biblio.biblionumber=marc_biblio.biblionumber and biblio.biblionumber=biblioitems.biblionumber and m1.bibid=marc_biblio.bibi
14:21 kados d and (m1.bibid=m2.bibid and m1.bibid=m3.bibid and m1.bibid=m4.bibid and m1.bibid=m5.bibid and m1.bibid=m6.bibid and m1.bibid=m7.bib
14:21 kados id and m1.bibid=m8.bibid and m1.bibid=m9.bibid) and ((m1.word  like 'Speed' and m1.tagsubfield in ('245a'))and (m2.word like 'show'
14:21 kados and m2.tagsubfield in('245a'))and (m3.word like 'How' and m3.tagsubfield in('245b'))and (m4.word like 'Nascar' and m4.tagsubfield in
14:21 kados ('245b'))and (m5.word like 'won' and m5.tagsubfield in('245b'))and (m6.word like 'heart' and m6.tagsubfield in('245b'))and (m7.word
14:21 kados like 'of' and m7.tagsubfield in('245b'))and (m8.word like 'America' and m8.tagsubfield in('245b'))and (m9.word like 'Caldwell' and m
14:21 kados 9.tagsubfield in('100a'))) order by biblio.title ASC term is  Speed show How Nascar won the heart of America Caldwell  Dave Kingfish
14:21 kados er at /home/kohatest/intranet/modules/C4/
14:22 kados tim: that's one heck of a query :-)
14:22 kados tim: I have a feeling that FindDuplicate routine is acting up
14:36 kados foxnorth: how's it going?
14:37 foxnorth kados: making a little progress
14:39 kados foxnorth: with searching?
14:39 foxnorth kados: i'm trying out the cvs marc-file-xml. I don't think it fixed the problem...i'm trying to track down why search results aren't displaying properly right now
14:39 kados *nod*
14:39 foxnorth kados: i'm disabling the target filtering code to see if that's the cultprit in results not displaying
14:57 kados paul: did you see my email about moving the MARC type (UNIMARC, MARC21, etc.) to the framework instead of a syspref?
14:57 kados paul: i was wondering what you thought about that
14:57 paul yep. sounds a good idea.
14:57 paul although it may be tricky & could confuse users that we support more than 1 marc at at once.
14:57 kados should we add something to the table in kohastructure.sql to allow that, even if we don't have time to code it before 3.0?
14:58 kados paul: ahh, I thought it would be a feature, some ILSes claim to support more than 1 marc at once
14:58 paul yes, but what about getting records from various z3950 servers ?
14:58 paul or indexing multimarc in zebra ?
14:58 paul that will fail miserabily
14:59 kados zebra you're right, we'd have to have biblios/usmarc biblios/unimarc
14:59 kados two separate databases
14:59 kados unless maybe the new xpath stuff could handle it
14:59 paul that will be more complex than just a new field ;-)
14:59 kados :-)
15:00 paul I think DublinCore is the best way to go on the long term
15:00 kados yea, DC++
15:05 paul kados : mail sent to koha-devel about installer
15:05 tim kados: I get a brain cramp trying to wrap my head around that query.
15:06 kados paul++
15:06 kados tim: hehe, yea, that's why no-one's fixed it :-)
15:06 kados paul: did you know there's a severe bug in FindDuplicate that causes mysql to come to a screeching halt under certain circumstances?
15:06 kados it happens pretty rarely, but when it does it's catestrophic
15:06 paul I don't think it's FindDuplicate...
15:07 kados yep, it is
15:07 paul I think it's the 2.2 search structure.
15:07 tim Just about everyone here's probably more prepared to fix it than I am.  Maybe the challenge will motivate me.
15:07 kados for certain long titles or authors
15:07 paul because when you search for
15:07 paul /password, and only that.
15:07 paul HTH
15:07 paul --
15:07 paul Paul POULAIN et Henri Damien LAURENT
15:07 paul Consultants indépendants en logiciels libres et bibliothéconomie (
15:07 paul Tel : 04 91 31 45 19
15:07 paul oups...
15:07 paul because when you search for
15:07 paul Speed show How Nascar won the heart of America Caldwell  Dave Kingfish
15:08 paul it search each word separately and LEFT join each search.
15:08 paul I bet that some words like "HOW", "WON", "America" have 1000 answers.
15:08 paul so the query is LLLLOOOOONNNNGGGG
15:08 kados yea
15:08 paul even if there are just a few results
15:08 tim I use the heck outta left join in my queries
15:08 paul heck outta ???
15:09 paul (tim : remember i'm french, english is not native to me ;-) )
15:09 kados tim means that he uses left join queries a lot :-)
15:10 tim It's the first join I figured out how to use so I stuck with it.
15:10 paul yep, but this one is 10 left join (stopword should remove THE and OF I think)
15:10 kados 'use the heck outta' or ... 'to use the heck out of' ... means 'use a lot' :-)
15:10 paul and 10 left join are really a lot !
15:11 tim I'll try to use real English here.
15:11 tim Or at least something close.
15:13 kados :)
15:20 owen Is there a difference between and
15:20 paul owen: breeding is for the reservoir.
15:20 paul i don't know what import is done for.
15:21 owen The look the same. The both say MARC acquisition system: Import into the reservoir
15:26 hdl owen :
15:26 hdl a diff between the two files showed no diff but the template name. (and some versionning history.)
15:27 kados git-rm is in order :-)
15:27 hdl < # Changing import script name ( to
15:28 hdl line 126.
15:52 owen Can anyone confirm that tools/printerConfig.tmpl is no longer used?
15:52 paul you should ask chris, he may have some suggestions about that
15:52 paul afaik, you're right
15:53 paul mmm... nope, i'm wrong
15:53 paul it was something related to barcode printing iirc
15:53 kados I thought it was for the old unix printer
15:53 kados which I'm not sure anyone uses anymore
15:54 kados grep -r printerConfig.tmpl *
15:54 kados just shows some po files on my install
15:54 paul iirc, admin/ is for the old unix printer
15:54 paul printerConfig was used by the old barcode module
15:54 kados ahh, right
15:54 kados yea, we can safely remov that I think
15:54 kados git-rm ++
15:54 paul (we can remove both I think...)à
15:55 kados ye
15:55 kados a
15:55 kados but lets make sure hlt aren't still using
15:55 paul (except we should ask chris about
15:55 paul (that's what I was meaning)
15:55 kados and if it works, no sense in removing it just because no--one uses it ... someone in the future might want to :-)
15:59 kados I'm confused about the distinction between tools/ and admin/
16:00 kados and BTW: ading a printer, queue, and type works OK
16:00 kados whether it actually _does_ anything is another story :-)
16:00 kados so tools vs admin?
16:00 kados paul: do you know the diff?
16:01 paul tool is for librarian tools, admin is to set up parameters.
16:01 paul printerConfig was related to configuring a printer for PDF generator (barcode)
16:01 paul it was something like "page size", orientation...
16:01 paul iirc
16:02 kados ok, I see now
16:02 kados reservoir, export, news, these are librarian tools
16:02 kados and the admin stuff is just for the sys admin
16:02 kados got it
16:02 kados paul: would you object to changing the name of 'Letters' to 'Notices' ?
16:03 kados Letters doesn't make much sense in english, we usually say 'Notices'
16:03 paul not at all. "letters" is a frenchism i'm afraid
16:03 paul you're better in english than me, definetly ;-)
16:03 kados hehe
16:05 kados and maybe 'News' should be 'Library Blog' ?
16:05 paul it's not really blogging.
16:06 paul on OPAC, it's more a small tool to inform the users that the library is closed next monday, that books related to X are available,...
16:06 kados ahh, ok
16:07 paul will appear on OPAC or on librarian interface, depending on the librarian choice
16:07 paul SANOP uses them on librarian interface to announce bugfixing & specific koha-related things.
16:07 kados why is overdue rules a tool, but circulation rules an admin?
16:07 paul good question...
16:07 paul they should probably be at the same place.
16:07 kados probably admin IMO
16:08 kados and clean borrowers seems like an admin function too
16:08 kados and 'Show lost items' is a report, right?
16:09 kados so shouldn't it go in reports?
16:09 kados and what about log viewer, isn't that  admin function?
16:09 paul clean borrower = mmm... I don't think it's an admin function.
16:09 kados k
16:09 paul (at least in france, were we have a law specifying the rules)
16:10 paul show lost items : maybe it's a report. In fact, I think we should divide the reports in 2 parts : the lists and the stats
16:10 owen clean borrowers is not an admin function because it needs to be performed by non-admin users?
16:10 kados we have a new report writer too
16:10 paul log viewer: can be discussed wether it's a tool or an admin.
16:10 paul kados : really, we have ?
16:10 kados paul: chris is developing it
16:10 paul owen : I think yes
16:10 owen I see
16:11 kados paul: it's a 'guided report wizard'
16:11 paul kados : when will something be commited to git ?
16:11 kados we'll have to check with russ
16:12 kados it's quite nice from what I've seen
16:12 kados he's working on a 'dictionary' currently
16:13 paul a dictionary ?
16:13 dewey rumour has it a dictionary is not entirely correct, as you will see
16:13 owen NPL is impatient to see it too ;)
16:13 kados it allows you to define a generic category, and map it to a group of fields in the db
16:14 kados so you can create a category called, for instance, 'young borrowers' and map it to a range of borrower birthdays
16:15 kados anyway ...
16:15 kados owen: so we can move Overdue Rules to admin
16:15 kados and Items Lost shoudl be in reports
16:16 kados I will volunteer to do it if noone else wants to
16:16 kados (and re-name Letters to 'Notices')
16:16 kados owen: should I wait until you push your latest changes, have there been massive updates to tools/ and admin/ templates?
16:17 owen I just did a lot of commits to Tools and some to Admin
16:17 kados cool, I'll wait then
16:17 owen I can submit patches now if that helps move things along
16:17 kados naw, no rush
16:18 kados I've got plenty to do :-)
16:18 owen Imagine that.
16:18 kados hehe
16:18 kados one thing I noticed
16:18 kados is that the tools subnav is a bit different than the tools 'dashboard'
16:19 owen Thanks, I'll review it
16:20 kados and I was thinking about those dashboards
16:20 kados what I think we should do there
16:20 kados is have a four column design
16:20 kados no left-hand panel
16:20 kados or maybe a three column design
16:20 kados so we can fit more toolname+description on the page
16:20 owen that makes sense
16:23 kados each tool could have an icon too if we wanted to get fancy :-)
16:25 owen Add that to your wish list
16:27 kados hehe, yea
16:31 paul kados : i have some commits that could be interesting for owen.
16:31 paul can I send them directly to you ?
16:31 paul (so you validate them quickly & owen can retrieve them)
16:34 kados well, Chris is QA
16:34 kados they have to go through him first
16:34 kados but you can send them to owen separately
16:34 kados and he can submit to chris
16:35 kados we're running in distributed mode now, remember? :-)
16:36 paul owen : mail with some patches sent.
16:36 paul kados : yep, although i'm still a little bit troubled by that ;-)
16:39 kados heh
16:39 kados bug fixes?
16:40 paul member editing + a hardcoded CPL branch in some templates
16:40 kados CPL?
16:40 kados ahh, removing CPL you mean?
16:40 paul yes, I really don't know what it means. It was written <input type=hidden name="branch" value="CPL">
16:41 owen Ah, a badly-done cut and paste on my part
16:41 paul probably ;-)
16:41 owen Should have had a <!-- TMPL_VAR --> instead, sorry.
16:41 paul the patch fixed that owen
16:41 paul the patch fixes that owen
16:41 paul the patch fix that owen (is the correct way to write it isn't it ?)
16:42 owen #2 is correct
16:47 paul_away see you tomorrow world
17:40 kados scarry, I'm almost caught up with my todo list
17:41 kados that never happens :-)
18:05 kados owen: I've seen the light w/respect to virtual shelves btw
18:05 owen Shine it on me, man
18:06 kados well, we need to re-implement them, and the book bag
18:06 kados basically merge the two, plus add some new features
18:06 kados rather than have 'types' of virtual shelves, we should have them owned by a user and make them 'sharable' to individuals or globally
18:07 kados and we should rename them to something like 'Lists'
18:07 kados 'my lists' or something
18:07 kados cuz the're not really shelves in the first place :-)
18:08 kados and the staff ones could be 'staff picks'
18:09 kados basically the idea is good, but we need to expand it a bit
18:10 owen Sounds good to me. Is this what happens when you finish your todo list?
18:12 kados hehe
18:12 kados well, I don't have time to work on that unfortunately, I just noticed the thread on NPL's forums
18:13 kados but we do have a customer who's going to be sponsoring this work in early 08
18:17 jaron liblime customers who sponsor changes I like++ :)
18:18 kados hehe, me too :-)
18:18 kados staying_in_business++ :-)
18:54 johnb Kados you around?
18:54 kados johnb: sure am
18:55 johnb At ALA we talked about a way to take the fuzziness out of the Intranet side of things?
18:55 kados right, I think I gave cindy that info
18:56 kados no luck with it yet?
18:56 johnb Well, it worked but we lost sorting:(
18:57 kados hmmm
18:57 johnb My librarians really want it and frankly I do too
18:57 johnb I know this will take time and time is money
18:58 johnb If you could give this some thought and get abck to me
18:58 johnb sorry back
18:58 kados well I'll have to look at what cindy changed to figure out what happened to sorting
18:58 kados which I'd be happy to do
18:58 johnb The other thing is John H. from Pailnet stoped by last week
18:59 johnb Please forgive spelling
19:04 kados *nod*
19:06 johnb We talked about setting up a vm version of dev week
19:07 johnb Cindy is with me and said she will try again with you instructions concerning the sorting she is muttering something about we're running a new version of zebra
19:08 kados ok, sounds good
19:09 johnb Thans, Kados
19:09 johnb I can't even spell thanks
19:09 kados :)
19:38 owen kados those patches that paul sent me: none of them applied
19:38 owen I'm pretty vague about the whole patch process, so I'm not sure what to do about it
19:42 kados owen: right
19:42 kados ok, so don't worry abotu them
19:42 kados paul can submit to chris I'd say
19:43 owen Fair enough.
19:43 kados owen: I assumed you checked everything in before the attempt?
19:43 owen yes
19:43 kados if so, you can clean up by just doing a fresh checkout with -f for that branch
19:43 owen Why would I need a fresh checkout?
19:44 owen Because of possible conflicts with my unapproved changes?
19:44 kados I guess if there were conflicts you might want to start fresh
19:44 kados but if you didn't even get that far, I think everything's in the .dotest dir
19:44 kados so you can just delete that
19:44 kados chris: that sound right?
19:45 kados owen: so that virtual shelves script is exiting after get_template_and_user, it's weird
20:03 chris yep
00:41 Brooke hola hola!
00:42 kados hey Brooke
00:43 kados Brooke: I've got some good news for you :-)
00:43 Brooke oooooh
00:43 Brooke spill it
00:43 kados chris and russ finished the integrated help writer on Friday
00:43 kados you wanna try it out?
00:43 Brooke sure why not?
00:44 chris i think the v3 might still be broken :( or have you fixed it joshua?
00:44 kados k, sec and I'll get you creds
00:44 kados chris: it was working for me earlier
00:44 chris (by broken i mean uninstalled )
00:44 kados yea, I'll just give her my one
00:45 chris cool
00:55 chris heya dan
00:55 dbs Hi chris
00:55 dbs Another late night... sigh
00:56 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: rangi n=nnchris@
00:56 chris whats keeping you up tonight?
00:58 dbs Prepping for a faculty meeting tomorrow; I have three or four different agenda items to present on. Sigh.
00:58 chris ahh meetings
00:59 chris thinkgeek has a great poster about them
01:00 dbs On the bright side: I'll be hiring a good student who will be able to give me ten hours/week of support
01:00 chris
01:00 chris oh excellent
01:01 dbs Hey - am I blind? Who wrote[…]a-zoom-stacks-up/
01:01 chris tina
01:01 dbs Ah, okay
01:01 dbs Karen's comments on feedback from spellcheck looked very familiar
01:02 dbs lol - great poster
01:03 chris working lists would be cool
01:04 chris shouldnt be too hard to add, we do pretty decent session handling, so it would be just adding to that
01:05 dbs hah
01:05 dbs moi aussi
07:22 hdl chris around ?
07:33 chris yep hdl
07:38 paul chris : did you recieve my patches about systempreferences ?
07:38 paul I don't know why it doesn't apply...
07:38 chris i got an email, it only had one file attached
07:38 chris is that right?
07:38 paul nope, should have 2
07:38 paul (1 .sql, 1 .txt)
07:38 paul sending it again...
07:39 chris cool
07:39 paul sent
07:40 chris weird seems to just be the sql
07:40 paul the .txt is very small (2 or 3 lines)
07:41 chris i wonder if the mailserver is mashing it, can you try sending it to
07:41 paul done
07:42 chris Ce fichier contient la definition des preferences systemes pour une installation UNIMARC en Francais.
07:42 chris is that the text?
07:42 paul yep
07:43 chris ok and what file does that go in?
07:44 chris unimarc_standard_systemprefs.txt ?
07:44 paul chris : joshua told me you were working on a new report wizard too. Anything to show ?
07:44 paul yes.
07:44 chris not really yet, should have something to show by the end of the week though
07:45 chris :)
07:53 chris ok, committed and pushed up to joshuas repository
08:30 chris[…]ive-in-samoa.html

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