IRC log for #koha, 2007-08-31

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
15:16 owen foxnorth, are you around?
15:21 kados morning owen
15:21 owen Hi kados
15:21 kados meetings--
15:22 owen Got your message. Sent you some patches to cover the whole </head><body> change.
15:22 kados cool
15:22 kados owen++
15:22 owen (Sent you => submitted)
15:22 kados excellent
15:22 kados that was fast!
15:23 owen I worked on it yesterday afternoon
15:23 owen I've been poking around this morning looking and what kind of javascript issues we've got that can be addressed by the reorganization.
15:23 kados right
15:24 owen I was hoping to get foxnorth's opinion on a default js lib.
15:24 kados he's around, probably just deep in code :-)
15:24 foxnorth hey owen-- here i am
15:24 owen We'll want to have something loaded by default to give us a baseline of functionality for the staff-global.js
15:24 owen Hi foxnorth
15:25 foxnorth you were wondering which javascript toolkit to use as a default?
15:26 owen Yeah. I'm thinking of situations like adding a class to a form field so that onload it will get focus. Little interface things that don't require big js lib plugins
15:27 foxnorth yeah i mean, jquery sounds perfect for that
15:27 foxnorth no need to for big widgets as w/ yui or ext
15:27 foxnorth although keep in mind i really don't know dojo, scriptaculous or prototype, so i'm missing part of the picture
15:28 owen Yeah, I think at some point we just pick and go with it.
15:29 owen If we have jquery loaded by default, then it's "hard-coded" into the page header...
15:29 owen Then what if I want to use ext for a calendar widget or tabs or something
15:29 owen Is that going to be a problem because jquery hasn't been properly integrated into ext? Instead they're being loaded on top of each other?
15:30 kados I think there's some way to avoid the global function problem
15:30 kados by defining a local variable for the object or something
15:30 owen Part of what we'll have to do in the next stages is choose how we're going to handle common widgets like calendars, tabs, etc.
15:30 kados yep
15:31 owen I'd like to ditch the current calendar widget because it seems to depend on inline <script> tags
15:31 owen We've got several pages that use tabs to show/hide content, and it makes sense to me to use one of the js libs to standardize that
15:32 foxnorth bbias
15:36 owen kados: I think there are ways to use namespaces to get around conflicts, but I'm really hazy on the concept
15:37 owen Even something as simple as the top-level nav which you mentioned in your email depends on making a js lib decision, if we're going to have our "more" drop-down menu
15:38 owen I'm not sure how to handle graceful degradation for that...maybe link it by default back to intranet-main
15:38 kados well, we should always have page markup that fills the content of any menus
15:39 kados ie, not use the strictly js methods of a toolbar or drop-down menu
15:39 kados IMO
15:41 owen Sure. I'm saying that if we've got a 'more' link that triggers a drop-down menu, what's the non-js result of clicking it? You'd need to send the user somewhere where they can get an overview
15:43 owen there are lots of places where we'll have to make hard decisions about what to make functional without js and what not to. I can't see making addbiblio work without js
15:43 kados yea, addbiblio's especially tricky
15:43 kados but highly deprecated as a core part of Koha IMO ... or at least should be soon
15:44 kados hard choices
15:44 kados I guess we just do our best
15:51 owen kados: with head content now getting added to templates directly, do we still need to set css and js parameters in the script?
16:31 kados hmmm
16:31 kados well, I dunno
16:32 kados I still think it's useful to distinguish between types of css and js
16:32 kados ie, global, module, page, widget
16:50 libtux hi..if i run sudo apt-get install mysql-server-4.1
16:50 libtux then i cant install mysql4.1 on ubuntu..
17:25 jaron libtux: what version of ubuntu? that might just be a transitional package to mysql 5
18:17 libtux jaron: i have a ubuntu6.06 version but still i cant install mysql-server4.1
18:18 owen "autolocation" defines the users branch based on their IP?
18:22 kados there is some IP-based location determination in 3.0 but I haven't played iwth it
18:27 owen I may not like the markup that Koha's calendar widget requires, but I sure can't find a js lib replacement that has as many features
18:28 kados yea, that's the prob
18:28 kados the includes/ markup isn't too bad
18:28 kados what about it don't you like, the inline stuff?
18:32 hdl kados : Is liblime working on members pages ?
18:32 kados hdl: nope
18:34 kados hdl: but it must be re-written before 3.0 can be released, it's very buggy and doesn't conform to our coding standards
18:35 hdl I know.
18:35 owen I don't like that you have to embed a <script> block in the main body of the page for each input you want to connect to a calendar widget.
18:35 hdl I am loosing my hair trying to debug it.
18:35 owen Some other versions I've seen can put all the scripts in <head> and work off an input class or id
18:36 hdl I have a first page on member adding I can show. But it doesnot work at all at the moment.
18:37 hdl http://i20.hdlaurent.paulpoula[…]d&category_type=A
18:37 hdl If you want to see.
18:38 kados looks much better
18:38 kados hd[…]lates_style_guide
18:38 kados hdl:[…]lates_style_guide
18:38 hdl Is that written coding standards or your internal coding standard.
18:38 kados hdl: I started a template guide
18:39 kados the Dos and Donts section is where we're going to try to establish conventions for the project
18:39 kados such as:
18:39 kados For block elements, use <div>, not <p>.
18:40 hdl Sure. But these statements are done way after it was first written.
18:40 hdl And our previous code relied on <p> and not <div>
18:41 kados if it was just p vs div I wouldn't be complaining
18:41 kados I believe I sent an email a while ago explaining my problems with the members code
18:41 kados the primary one was that the html code had been bloated 8000% from the previous version
18:42 kados and it is completely unmanagable
18:42 hdl I agree.
18:42 hdl This is why I try to do it again.
18:43 kados it also has some very unfriendly defaults (like ALL CAPS for last names)
18:43 kados (which is still a problem BTW)
18:43 kados hdl:++
18:43 hdl But belive me, going from this Code is quite a trouble.
18:43 kados I can imagine
18:43 hdl ALL Caps for French is Default for lastnames.
18:44 kados yep, but no where else it seems :-)
18:45 kados but librarians won't like it
18:48 owen All caps for last names should be handled by custom CSS and/or js
18:49 kados hdl: most libraries in the US ask for a patron entry screen that allows all 'required' info to be filled out in one page
18:49 kados hdl: other pages can be used for supplemental information if there is time
18:49 kados hdl: but often the patron must be added very quickly and there is not time to fill out all the data
20:33 chris i thought i fixed the all caps with a system preference
20:34 chris maybe it never got committed
20:38 kados morning chris
20:38 hdl hi gang
20:38 kados chris: should be a few patches waitin fr ya :-)
20:39 chris ill go look, yeah i made a systempreference that controlled wether the js in the template converted surnames to caps, i wonder what happened to that
20:40 kados for some reason a change I'm 100% sure I committed and patched was lost too
20:41 kados i fixed the CGI header that was causing the page to be downloaded
20:41 kados ages ago
20:41 chris oh this one was well before git
20:41 kados ahh
20:41 chris was i think the first koha project day
20:41 kados wow, that does go back a bit
20:42 chris ill track it down
20:42 chris it wasnt to tricky
20:42 kados cool
20:43 chris 3 from owen, 3 from you, going to read them now
20:43 kados cool
20:45 chris hmm owen has gone, problem with his patch
20:45 kados bummer
20:45 kados what's the prob?
20:45 chris error: koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/css/staff-global.css: does not exist in index
20:47 chris ill apply the rest and bounce that one back with the error message, it seems it needs a patch to creae that file first
20:48 kados huh
20:48 kados that was one from me
20:48 kados maybe apply mine first?
20:49 kados ahh
20:49 kados I know
20:49 kados there were a couple of template patches that I pushed directly
20:49 kados chris: you probably need to pull
20:49 chris ahh ill try that
20:50 chris yep that worked
20:50 chris pushing_directly-- :-)
20:50 kados yea, I know
20:50 chris its tempting tho eh
20:59 chris did you just get a push email?
20:59 kados nope
20:59 kados ahh, yes
21:00 hdl kados : problem with one page entry screen as you suggest is that it would mix both Personnal information and Librarian information, which would be in two separate screens on edition.... But I am going to bed now. Sorry.
21:01 kados hdl: g'night
01:26 CGI412 Hello everyone.
01:27 CGI412 I am looking for an application that will allow me to sort my eBook collection.  I read a lot, and such, have a lot of ebooks, but sometimes they are hard to locate.  Will koha do this?  If not do you know of a product that might.  That runs on linux, preferable oss?
03:19 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: rangi n=nnchris@
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09:21 chris just over 1 week to go paul :-)
09:21 paul hi chris
09:22 chris hi paul
09:22 paul only 55% of kiwis think you'll win I hear on the radio...
09:22 chris hehe
09:22 chris i think it will be nz, south africa or france
09:23 chris anyone of those 3 teams could win i think
09:23 chris australia dont have good forwards
09:23 chris england are horrible this year
09:24 chris argentina are my outside bet .. they sometimes play way better than they should :-)
09:25 paul 1st match : argentina/france.
09:25 chris yeah that will be an interesting one
09:25 paul everybody says it will be a tough match for is
09:25 chris i think you will beat them
09:25 paul s/think/hope/ !
09:25 chris because you are more match fit
09:25 paul (for me at least)
09:25 paul and we are at home...
09:26 paul x0 000 ppl supporting us can make a diff
09:26 chris if they had a few more warm up games  ... then it would be closer but yes france at home .. very hard to beat
09:28 chris i will be watching that game, its at 7am here
09:28 chris so good time
09:29 paul what time is it for you atm ?
09:29 paul almost time to go to bed I think...
09:29 chris 9.28pm
09:29 paul will you be back for the chat ?
09:29 chris ill try to be
09:30 chris but as its at 4am
09:31 chris not too likely unless kahurangi decides to wake up then
09:31 chris hehe
09:31 chris laurel will come round to your house and yell at you if the phone goes at 4am :-)
09:31 chris how is ben rach?
09:31 chris and how was the marae?
09:32 rach was good
09:32 chris paul: i might have to read the logs and add my comments in an email
09:32 rach Jo did a nice mihi
09:32 chris cool
09:32 paul chris : i've just thrown a mail about DB management, to prepare the meeting
09:32 paul (koha-devel)
09:32 chris cool paul
09:33 rach but is always hard to have essentially an 11 hr client meeting
09:33 chris *nod*
09:34 chris did you end up using that waiata?
09:34 rach yes I think so
09:34 chris cool, youtube comes in handy sometimes
09:34 rach yeah - jo knew it the best so she lead
09:35 rach it wasn't actually on the marae which was good - just their offices, so less formal was nice, but still quite formal welcome
09:35 chris yep
09:35 rach and we met the head librarian from puke ariki as well
09:35 chris ohh cool
09:36 rach poor old walter had some more hours doing training last night and today
09:36 rach he sounded beat by the time he got home
09:36 chris i bet
09:36 rach but is all looking good for Kete
09:36 chris excellent
09:37 rach Puke Ariki are thinking it might be better than the wiki they are using
09:38 rach Paul - in case you weren't aware, we've been writing an open source digital library/archive system called Kete. And we've just had 3 clients secure a second round of funding which is great
09:38 paul but never got a look at it
09:40 rach
09:40 chris paul: i agree with your email, we should deal with the 2 cases separately
09:41 chris is good too (for seeing it in action)
09:41 paul can I dl kete somewhere ? see some screenshots ? have some tech information (platform, requirements...) ?
09:42 rach today, slightly tricky, next few weeks yes - one of the bits of funding was to get the website etc all up and running, and by the end of the next round of work have a 1.0 release ready
09:43 rach there is some stuff up already =
09:45 paul rach : what does "is fully compatible with Koha" mean exactly ?
09:46 rach more context? Kete uses Zebra and z39:50 and other standards so I'm picking it will mean thay you can easily do federated searching Of Kete from Koha and vice versa
09:47 chris yep
09:47 paul OK. but no  SSO for instance ?
09:47 rach they both run on Debian, but Kete is a ruby on rails application
09:47 chris SSO?
09:47 rach what's sso
09:47 paul Single Sign On
09:47 paul 1 login for both apps
09:48 chris hmm you could do
09:48 chris they both store their user info in mysql
09:49 chris would take a little tweaking
09:49 rach kete is generally "looser" in who can be a member than Koha - For HLT it doesn't require you to be a library member for example, but yes if you could decide on your policies etc I would think they could be
09:51 rach you could do something simple like import all your koha users into Kete - you'd still need more verification before you let a kete member become a koha member I think
10:00 chris yeah that would work rach
10:02 rach would be possible to add someone to be a kete member when they become a koha member I think, and maybe just a "work flow" thing to punt people through to Koha to sign up if they come in from Kete
10:02 chris yeah shouldnt be too hard
10:04 rach good night - happy meeting I really hope I'm *not* awake for it :-)
10:04 chris hehe
10:17 hdl chris :  Does kete and greenstone have anything in common ?
10:18 chris well greenstone is more for a traditional digital library
10:18 chris where the librarian adds the data, catalogues it etc
10:18 chris kete is closer to say wikipedia
10:18 chris in that its community driven
10:20 chris does that make sense?
10:21 hdl Yes.
10:21 chris cool
10:22 chris i forget, do you watch rugby too hdl? or just paul?
10:24 hdl I am not a rugby fan.
10:25 chris ahh
10:25 hdl In fact, I am not a sport fan. I had rather do some sport than watch guys training sports :D
10:25 chris :-)
10:26 hdl But sometimes, I enjoy watching good sport performances.

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