IRC log for #koha, 2006-09-21

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
19:38 kados thd: you around?
20:52 thd kados: I am back and even awake
21:25 kados thd: one of my clients had a request for music cataloging
21:25 kados fields 511 518
21:25 kados they also need 710 $4 and 700 $4
21:25 thd kados:sheet music or recorded music
21:25 thd ?
21:26 kados I don't know ...
21:29 thd kados: $4 should be available for names in all frameworks which I created in collapsed form.
21:29 thd kados: unless I missed something
21:29 kados thd: they are doing original cataloging and need it to be visible
21:30 kados it's not currently I don't think ... I will check now
21:30 thd kados: no it is not visible
21:30 thd 511 and 518 are easy to add
21:33 thd kados:I think that 518 may be in the simple sound recordings framework
21:35 thd kados:do they want these added to the multi-purpose default framework or do they want a special standards based recorded music framework
21:35 thd ?
21:36 kados I think the multi-purpose default would be good
21:38 kados I had to greatly simplify the item fields
21:38 kados for one client
21:39 kados thd: would there be a way to separate out the items fields from the rest of the framework?
21:39 kados that way, all clients could share one framework sql file, but each have their own items framework
21:39 kados I think it should be possible
21:39 kados so long as they are always applied one after the other
21:40 kados thd: what do you think?
21:40 thd kados: the koha specific fields including the item fields are in a separate section in the frameworks which I have edited
21:41 kados yes, but I would want them in a separate file
21:41 kados because each client will have slightly different items fields
21:41 kados for instance, we have one client that uses 852 fields instead of 952 fields for items
21:42 kados does that make sense?
21:43 kados thd: ?
21:43 thd kados: well a supplementary file makes sense but if you are using 852 or other standard fields, those have not been separated.
21:43 kados thd: right now the technique is to have a seprate framework file for each client
21:44 kados but this is unmanagable
21:44 kados it's very difficult to merge in changes from the main framework
21:44 thd kados: exactly
21:44 kados especially since the only things that _need_ to be differnt are the items
21:45 kados it would make sense to abstract them out completely into a different file
21:45 kados it would also perhaps make sense to have all frameworks share items settings
21:46 kados since they will not differ from framework to framework (within a single installation)
21:46 thd kados:so should 852 be added to the items file along with the Koha fields?
21:46 kados no ...
21:50 thd kados: how does sharing the same items fields across frameworks work in an SQL file, except that only the default seems to be used?
21:51 kados I don't know
21:51 thd kados:you could loop through them in Perl substituting framework codes
21:51 kados yea, that may be the way to do it
21:51 kados right now I must get some rest
21:51 thd kados: haven't you killed sleep yet?
21:52 kados I wish :-)
21:52 kados 4 hours a night seems to be the lowest I can survive on
21:52 kados and still function :-)
21:53 thd kados:it did not help Lady MacBeth to kill sleep
21:53 kados that does not count sleeping in one day a week
21:53 kados hehe
21:54 thd kados: you need one day for each of those 4 hour nights
21:55 thd s/day/day of extra sleep/
21:55 kados thd: yes, or I may die young from lack of sleep :-)
21:55 kados thd: or so the sleep experts tell me :-)
21:56 thd kados: yes, I have read a couple of books on sleep research
21:56 thd kados: there is no verified experimental evidence that anyone can survive on four hours sleep a night
21:57 kados hehe
21:58 thd I managed only 2 hours at once most of last week but I became a non-functional zombie
21:58 kados my typical cycle is 4 hours 8-9 times per week ... the intervals don't always line up with the days :-)
21:59 thd kados: famous people like Bucky Fuller have claimed to survive without proper sleep but researches believe that they would take frequent brief naps
22:02 thd kados:no one who has claimed to train himself to go without much sleep and function well has allowed himself to be submitted to a controlled laboratory test of his functioning while maintaining minimal sleep
22:02 kados probably too busy to waste the time :-)
22:02 kados there is a sleep clinic in Athens
22:02 kados I wonder if they have wifi ;-)
22:03 thd kados: you can probably get a fast directly wired connection there
22:05 thd and you can have the researchers reading your messages to you while you sleep
22:05 kados hehe
22:08 thd kados: I spent overnight Friday at the NYU library and I have still not had enough waking time to process even the least of what I found there
22:21 qiqo hello everybody!
22:21 qiqo just want to ask if how do i edit the default marc framework of koha
22:26 thd qiqo:grab the marc21_standard_bib_framework.sql in the CVS misc directory and edit that file or use the Koha interface in Koha System Administration
22:29 qiqo so that will automatically update the framework?
22:29 qiqo because i need to use koha as a cataloguing tool for an LIS course here in our univeristy
22:30 qiqo students will encode marc entries as their exercise
22:33 thd qiqo: editing the framework within Koha System Administration : Biblio framework will update automatically
22:34 thd qiqo:editing an external SQL file for rebuilding the framework requires importing the framework for the update to take effect
22:35 thd qiqo: there are instructions in marc21_standard_bib_framework.sql for importing the SQL file
22:35 qiqo ahh ok..
22:36 qiqo because i need all the fields seen on the edit MARC section..
22:36 qiqo so that students will be familiarized with the structure
22:37 thd qiqo: that will not produce satisfactory results or the standard framework would have them all
22:40 thd qiqo: if every standard field and subfield is set to appear by default in the editor it will take over ten minutes or possibly much longer even on fast  hardware for the record editor to finish loading and building all the fields and subfields
22:40 qiqo ah really?
22:40 thd qiqo: that is why there are a range of visibility options
22:41 thd at the subfield level
22:41 qiqo ok..
22:41 qiqo so ill just ask the professor if which fields are needed?
22:42 thd qiqo we should have a means of adding additional fields or subfields on the fly but that code has not been written yet
22:42 qiqo so what do you suggest?
22:44 thd qiqo: unless you want to write the add arbitrary field subfield code I would suggest trying to figure out which ones you are actually likely to use in advance
22:46 thd qiqo: the editor runs in JavaScript and merely hides the fields and subfields from tabs that you cannot see.
22:46 thd s/cannot see/do not have open/
22:47 qiqo ok..
22:47 qiqo it seems like its a huge work for me... :(
22:47 qiqo is the marc framework of 2.2.6RC2 diffrent from 2.2.5?
22:48 thd qiqo: MARC 21 has about 500 standard or commonly used fields defined and about 4000 subfields
22:49 thd qiqo: 2.2.6 has an entirely different MARC 21 framework and editor code where most of the hard work has been done for you.
22:51 thd qiqo: The 2.2.5 record editor will not allow you to put subfields in the correct order
22:51 qiqo so i think ill use 2.2.6RC2
22:52 thd qiqo: see this message[…]/2006/010504.html
22:54 thd qiqo: the asmp: frameworks were found to introduce a bug with template code and have been recommitted as marc21_simple_bib_frameworks.sql
22:56 thd qiqo: I also just noticed that my recent default framework update has set the visibility values backwards for 7XX
22:57 thd qiqo:I will fix 7XX in a couple of hours or so
22:57 qiqo cool//
22:57 qiqo so i will just update through the cvs?
22:59 thd qiqo: a cvs update alone will not update the MARC frameworks
22:59 qiqo so what will i do then?
23:00 qiqo i mean if youve fixed the bug on 7XX...
23:00 thd qiqo: you have to actually execute the marc21_standard_bib_framework.sql following instructions in the comments contained within the file
23:00 qiqo will i get the fix through cvs?
23:01 qiqo ok will i get that on cvs??
23:02 thd qiqo: the file itself will update through CVS then you have to use MySQL to import the file as the comments instruct
23:03 qiqo ok..
23:07 thd qiqo: if you have 2.2.5 updated though CVS then the record editor code will work the same as 2.2.6
23:14 qiqo ok..
23:14 qiqo so il just update 2.2.5 through CVS then,,
23:15 qiqo thanks thd
23:15 qiqo i will probably wait for you 7XX fix...
23:17 thd qiqo: you are welcome, I have a slow connection and system so testing and committing takes a while
23:18 qiqo no problem,, we're not in a hurry
23:20 thd qiqo: no but it is a little disturbing to see that I set the visibility values backwards for 7XX
23:25 qiqo ermm ok
07:15 kados toins: you here?
07:15 toins kados: yep
07:15 kados did you see my commit?
07:17 toins kados: yes... and i'll try to synch with rel_3_0 this afternoon
07:17 kados toins: let me know if you have any questions about the approach
07:18 kados toins: or ideas ;-)
07:18 toins kados: ok no problem !
07:23 kados paul here?
07:43 toins kados: paul will back on friday
07:46 kados morning owen
07:48 owen Hi
07:48 dewey hey, owen
07:49 owen dewey: Whassaaaaaaaaaaap?
07:49 dewey wish i knew, owen
07:52 owen kados: I have a Perl question for you if you have a moment
07:52 kados yup, whats up?
07:52 owen Take a look at line 32 of (on dev_week)
07:53 kados k
07:53 kados my ($borr, $flags) = getpatroninformation(undef, $borrowernumber);
07:53 owen That's followed by a bunch of manipulations to the data returned by the getpatroninformation function
07:53 kados $bor is a hash
07:53 kados well, it's a reference to a hash
07:53 owen then we see: my@bordat; $bordat[0] = $borr;
07:53 kados $borr->{'dateenrolled'} is how you de-reference it
07:54 kados yep
07:54 owen What's going on there?
07:54 kados the first element of that array is a reference to that same hash
07:55 kados the data needs to be coaxed into a format that HTML::Template can use
07:55 kados for a TMPL_LOOP it requires a reference to an array of hashes :-)
07:55 owen And what's the function of the slash in $template->param(BORROWER_INFO => \@bordat);
07:55 owen ?
07:55 kados (and if that works, it also accepts a reference to an array of hash refs)
07:55 kados it turns the array into a reference
07:56 kados so starting at the beginning
07:56 kados $borr starts it's life as a regular ole scalar
07:56 kados but through magical means is transformed into a hash reference
07:57 kados yea ... it's called autovivification :-)
07:57 kados very neat stuff :-)
07:57 kados anyway ... then it's basically pushed into an array's first element
07:57 kados and then that array is passed to the template as a reference
07:58 kados not the way I would do it
07:58 kados but it's working, right?
07:59 kados more info that you may or may not need
07:59 kados if you have a hash like:
07:59 kados my %hash
07:59 kados the way to refer to the data is like:
07:59 kados $hash{key}
08:00 kados it's only when it's a reference that you use the -> (de-reference) operator
08:00 kados $hashref->{key}
08:00 owen The reason I asked was I was interested in getting borrower firstname and borrower surname into opac-passwd.tmpl. already calls getpatroninformation(), but it doesn't seem to pass anything back to the template
08:01 owen In fact I'm not sure how it's using getpatroninformation()
08:01 kados looks like it just discards that data
08:01 kados so you can basically copy/paste what's in opac-user and it will work
08:02 kados or ...
08:02 kados if all you need is the data
08:02 kados you could do:
08:02 kados $template->param('firstname' => $borr->{'firstname'});
08:03 kados that should work
08:03 kados bypass the loop method
08:05 owen Cool, worked like a charm
08:06 kados ahh, I see what's going on there
08:07 kados the reason it was passed as an array ref is to avoid the verbosity of specifying every element
08:07 kados so if you want all borrower data available you can do:
08:07 kados my @borrdat;
08:08 kados push @borrdat, $borr;
08:08 kados $template->param("BORROWER_LOOP" => \@borrdat);
08:08 kados that's a bit cleaner
08:09 kados and then you'll have a loop with all the borrower fields available
08:09 kados owen: make sense?
08:09 owen "push @borrdat, $borr; " instead of "$bordat[0] = $borr;" ?
08:09 kados either way will work
08:10 owen Since all I needed was the two variables, I just grabbed those two.
08:11 kados that works too :-)
08:11 owen I don't really have a concept of how efficient things need to be, whether passing more data to the template is inefficient
08:12 kados yea ... perl kinda hides all hat
08:12 kados that even
08:12 kados the fact is that passing data around in perl is very efficient
08:12 kados the most expensive part of running perl is compiling
08:13 kados so the less overall code your code calls (in terms of modules) the faster it will runn
08:15 kados owen: those breadcrumbs are nifty
08:16 owen Thanks. I felt like it closed a gap in the navigation scheme
08:18 kados having tabs for overdue items and reserves might be nice ;-)
08:18 owen yeah, I was thinking about that on my way in this morning
08:18 kados hehe
08:19 kados also the more I play with this
08:19 owen Is it important to be able to see /just/ overdues?
08:19 kados yea, I think that could be interesting
08:19 owen They had been separated out, but we merged them.
08:19 kados right ... three tabs would be nice
08:19 kados with overdues as the default if there are any
08:20 kados also I've been thinking about the layout
08:20 kados personal details, password and fines go together nicely
08:21 kados reading history, 'account' (which has issues,reserves,overdues) and virtual shelves go together nicely
08:21 kados and 'cart' is it's own animal
08:21 kados it might even be a good idea to have each tab of account explicitly identified in a drop-down nav or something
08:22 toins kados: do you think i may remove css, default, npl template on rel_3_0 for the opac ?
08:22 toins and keep only prog
08:22 toins (on the intranet there is only prog)

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