Time Nick Message 19:38 kados thd: you around? 20:52 thd kados: I am back and even awake 21:25 kados thd: one of my clients had a request for music cataloging 21:25 kados fields 511 518 21:25 kados they also need 710 $4 and 700 $4 21:25 thd kados:sheet music or recorded music 21:25 thd ? 21:26 kados I don't know ... 21:29 thd kados: $4 should be available for names in all frameworks which I created in collapsed form. 21:29 thd kados: unless I missed something 21:29 kados thd: they are doing original cataloging and need it to be visible 21:30 kados it's not currently I don't think ... I will check now 21:30 thd kados: no it is not visible 21:30 thd 511 and 518 are easy to add 21:33 thd kados:I think that 518 may be in the simple sound recordings framework 21:35 thd kados:do they want these added to the multi-purpose default framework or do they want a special standards based recorded music framework 21:35 thd ? 21:36 kados I think the multi-purpose default would be good 21:38 kados I had to greatly simplify the item fields 21:38 kados for one client 21:39 kados thd: would there be a way to separate out the items fields from the rest of the framework? 21:39 kados that way, all clients could share one framework sql file, but each have their own items framework 21:39 kados I think it should be possible 21:39 kados so long as they are always applied one after the other 21:40 kados thd: what do you think? 21:40 thd kados: the koha specific fields including the item fields are in a separate section in the frameworks which I have edited 21:41 kados yes, but I would want them in a separate file 21:41 kados because each client will have slightly different items fields 21:41 kados for instance, we have one client that uses 852 fields instead of 952 fields for items 21:42 kados does that make sense? 21:43 kados thd: ? 21:43 thd kados: well a supplementary file makes sense but if you are using 852 or other standard fields, those have not been separated. 21:43 kados thd: right now the technique is to have a seprate framework file for each client 21:44 kados but this is unmanagable 21:44 kados it's very difficult to merge in changes from the main framework 21:44 thd kados: exactly 21:44 kados especially since the only things that _need_ to be differnt are the items 21:45 kados it would make sense to abstract them out completely into a different file 21:45 kados it would also perhaps make sense to have all frameworks share items settings 21:46 kados since they will not differ from framework to framework (within a single installation) 21:46 thd kados:so should 852 be added to the items file along with the Koha fields? 21:46 kados no ... 21:50 thd kados: how does sharing the same items fields across frameworks work in an SQL file, except that only the default seems to be used? 21:51 kados I don't know 21:51 thd kados:you could loop through them in Perl substituting framework codes 21:51 kados yea, that may be the way to do it 21:51 kados right now I must get some rest 21:51 thd kados: haven't you killed sleep yet? 21:52 kados I wish :-) 21:52 kados 4 hours a night seems to be the lowest I can survive on 21:52 kados and still function :-) 21:53 thd kados:it did not help Lady MacBeth to kill sleep 21:53 kados that does not count sleeping in one day a week 21:53 kados hehe 21:54 thd kados: you need one day for each of those 4 hour nights 21:55 thd s/day/day of extra sleep/ 21:55 kados thd: yes, or I may die young from lack of sleep :-) 21:55 kados thd: or so the sleep experts tell me :-) 21:56 thd kados: yes, I have read a couple of books on sleep research 21:56 thd kados: there is no verified experimental evidence that anyone can survive on four hours sleep a night 21:57 kados hehe 21:58 thd I managed only 2 hours at once most of last week but I became a non-functional zombie 21:58 kados my typical cycle is 4 hours 8-9 times per week ... the intervals don't always line up with the days :-) 21:59 thd kados: famous people like Bucky Fuller have claimed to survive without proper sleep but researches believe that they would take frequent brief naps 22:02 thd kados:no one who has claimed to train himself to go without much sleep and function well has allowed himself to be submitted to a controlled laboratory test of his functioning while maintaining minimal sleep 22:02 kados probably too busy to waste the time :-) 22:02 kados there is a sleep clinic in Athens 22:02 kados I wonder if they have wifi ;-) 22:03 thd kados: you can probably get a fast directly wired connection there 22:05 thd and you can have the researchers reading your messages to you while you sleep 22:05 kados hehe 22:08 thd kados: I spent overnight Friday at the NYU library and I have still not had enough waking time to process even the least of what I found there 22:21 qiqo hello everybody! 22:21 qiqo just want to ask if how do i edit the default marc framework of koha 22:26 thd qiqo:grab the marc21_standard_bib_framework.sql in the CVS misc directory and edit that file or use the Koha interface in Koha System Administration 22:29 qiqo so that will automatically update the framework? 22:29 qiqo because i need to use koha as a cataloguing tool for an LIS course here in our univeristy 22:30 qiqo students will encode marc entries as their exercise 22:33 thd qiqo: editing the framework within Koha System Administration : Biblio framework will update automatically 22:34 thd qiqo:editing an external SQL file for rebuilding the framework requires importing the framework for the update to take effect 22:35 thd qiqo: there are instructions in marc21_standard_bib_framework.sql for importing the SQL file 22:35 qiqo ahh ok.. 22:36 qiqo because i need all the fields seen on the edit MARC section.. 22:36 qiqo so that students will be familiarized with the structure 22:37 thd qiqo: that will not produce satisfactory results or the standard framework would have them all 22:40 thd qiqo: if every standard field and subfield is set to appear by default in the editor it will take over ten minutes or possibly much longer even on fast hardware for the record editor to finish loading and building all the fields and subfields 22:40 qiqo ah really? 22:40 thd qiqo: that is why there are a range of visibility options 22:41 thd at the subfield level 22:41 qiqo ok.. 22:41 qiqo so ill just ask the professor if which fields are needed? 22:42 thd qiqo we should have a means of adding additional fields or subfields on the fly but that code has not been written yet 22:42 qiqo so what do you suggest? 22:44 thd qiqo: unless you want to write the add arbitrary field subfield code I would suggest trying to figure out which ones you are actually likely to use in advance 22:46 thd qiqo: the editor runs in JavaScript and merely hides the fields and subfields from tabs that you cannot see. 22:46 thd s/cannot see/do not have open/ 22:47 qiqo ok.. 22:47 qiqo it seems like its a huge work for me... :( 22:47 qiqo is the marc framework of 2.2.6RC2 diffrent from 2.2.5? 22:48 thd qiqo: MARC 21 has about 500 standard or commonly used fields defined and about 4000 subfields 22:49 thd qiqo: 2.2.6 has an entirely different MARC 21 framework and editor code where most of the hard work has been done for you. 22:51 thd qiqo: The 2.2.5 record editor will not allow you to put subfields in the correct order 22:51 qiqo so i think ill use 2.2.6RC2 22:52 thd qiqo: see this message http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2006/010504.html 22:54 thd qiqo: the asmp: frameworks were found to introduce a bug with template code and have been recommitted as marc21_simple_bib_frameworks.sql 22:56 thd qiqo: I also just noticed that my recent default framework update has set the visibility values backwards for 7XX 22:57 thd qiqo:I will fix 7XX in a couple of hours or so 22:57 qiqo cool// 22:57 qiqo so i will just update through the cvs? 22:59 thd qiqo: a cvs update alone will not update the MARC frameworks 22:59 qiqo so what will i do then? 23:00 qiqo i mean if youve fixed the bug on 7XX... 23:00 thd qiqo: you have to actually execute the marc21_standard_bib_framework.sql following instructions in the comments contained within the file 23:00 qiqo will i get the fix through cvs? 23:01 qiqo ok will i get that on cvs?? 23:02 thd qiqo: the file itself will update through CVS then you have to use MySQL to import the file as the comments instruct 23:03 qiqo ok.. 23:07 thd qiqo: if you have 2.2.5 updated though CVS then the record editor code will work the same as 2.2.6 23:14 qiqo ok.. 23:14 qiqo so il just update 2.2.5 through CVS then,, 23:15 qiqo thanks thd 23:15 qiqo i will probably wait for you 7XX fix... 23:17 thd qiqo: you are welcome, I have a slow connection and system so testing and committing takes a while 23:18 qiqo no problem,, we're not in a hurry 23:20 thd qiqo: no but it is a little disturbing to see that I set the visibility values backwards for 7XX 23:25 qiqo ermm ok 07:15 kados toins: you here? 07:15 toins kados: yep 07:15 kados did you see my commit? 07:17 toins kados: yes... and i'll try to synch with rel_3_0 this afternoon 07:17 kados toins: let me know if you have any questions about the approach 07:18 kados toins: or ideas ;-) 07:18 toins kados: ok no problem ! 07:23 kados paul here? 07:43 toins kados: paul will back on friday 07:46 kados morning owen 07:48 owen Hi 07:48 dewey hey, owen 07:49 owen dewey: Whassaaaaaaaaaaap? 07:49 dewey wish i knew, owen 07:52 owen kados: I have a Perl question for you if you have a moment 07:52 kados yup, whats up? 07:52 owen Take a look at line 32 of opac-user.pl (on dev_week) 07:53 kados k 07:53 kados my ($borr, $flags) = getpatroninformation(undef, $borrowernumber); 07:53 owen That's followed by a bunch of manipulations to the data returned by the getpatroninformation function 07:53 kados $bor is a hash 07:53 kados well, it's a reference to a hash 07:53 owen then we see: my@bordat; $bordat[0] = $borr; 07:53 kados $borr->{'dateenrolled'} is how you de-reference it 07:54 kados yep 07:54 owen What's going on there? 07:54 kados the first element of that array is a reference to that same hash 07:55 kados the data needs to be coaxed into a format that HTML::Template can use 07:55 kados for a TMPL_LOOP it requires a reference to an array of hashes :-) 07:55 owen And what's the function of the slash in $template->param(BORROWER_INFO => \@bordat); 07:55 owen ? 07:55 kados (and if that works, it also accepts a reference to an array of hash refs) 07:55 kados it turns the array into a reference 07:56 kados so starting at the beginning 07:56 kados $borr starts it's life as a regular ole scalar 07:56 kados but through magical means is transformed into a hash reference 07:57 kados yea ... it's called autovivification :-) 07:57 kados very neat stuff :-) 07:57 kados anyway ... then it's basically pushed into an array's first element 07:57 kados and then that array is passed to the template as a reference 07:58 kados not the way I would do it 07:58 kados but it's working, right? 07:59 kados more info that you may or may not need 07:59 kados if you have a hash like: 07:59 kados my %hash 07:59 kados the way to refer to the data is like: 07:59 kados $hash{key} 08:00 kados it's only when it's a reference that you use the -> (de-reference) operator 08:00 kados $hashref->{key} 08:00 owen The reason I asked was I was interested in getting borrower firstname and borrower surname into opac-passwd.tmpl. opac-passwd.pl already calls getpatroninformation(), but it doesn't seem to pass anything back to the template 08:01 owen In fact I'm not sure how it's using getpatroninformation() 08:01 kados looks like it just discards that data 08:01 kados so you can basically copy/paste what's in opac-user and it will work 08:02 kados or ... 08:02 kados if all you need is the data 08:02 kados you could do: 08:02 kados $template->param('firstname' => $borr->{'firstname'}); 08:03 kados that should work 08:03 kados bypass the loop method 08:05 owen Cool, worked like a charm 08:06 kados ahh, I see what's going on there 08:07 kados the reason it was passed as an array ref is to avoid the verbosity of specifying every element 08:07 kados so if you want all borrower data available you can do: 08:07 kados my @borrdat; 08:08 kados push @borrdat, $borr; 08:08 kados $template->param("BORROWER_LOOP" => \@borrdat); 08:08 kados that's a bit cleaner 08:09 kados and then you'll have a loop with all the borrower fields available 08:09 kados owen: make sense? 08:09 owen "push @borrdat, $borr; " instead of "$bordat[0] = $borr;" ? 08:09 kados either way will work 08:10 owen Since all I needed was the two variables, I just grabbed those two. 08:11 kados that works too :-) 08:11 owen I don't really have a concept of how efficient things need to be, whether passing more data to the template is inefficient 08:12 kados yea ... perl kinda hides all hat 08:12 kados that even 08:12 kados the fact is that passing data around in perl is very efficient 08:12 kados the most expensive part of running perl is compiling 08:13 kados so the less overall code your code calls (in terms of modules) the faster it will runn 08:15 kados owen: those breadcrumbs are nifty 08:16 owen Thanks. I felt like it closed a gap in the navigation scheme 08:18 kados having tabs for overdue items and reserves might be nice ;-) 08:18 owen yeah, I was thinking about that on my way in this morning 08:18 kados hehe 08:19 kados also the more I play with this 08:19 owen Is it important to be able to see /just/ overdues? 08:19 kados yea, I think that could be interesting 08:19 owen They had been separated out, but we merged them. 08:19 kados right ... three tabs would be nice 08:19 kados with overdues as the default if there are any 08:20 kados also I've been thinking about the layout 08:20 kados personal details, password and fines go together nicely 08:21 kados reading history, 'account' (which has issues,reserves,overdues) and virtual shelves go together nicely 08:21 kados and 'cart' is it's own animal 08:21 kados it might even be a good idea to have each tab of account explicitly identified in a drop-down nav or something 08:22 toins kados: do you think i may remove css, default, npl template on rel_3_0 for the opac ? 08:22 toins and keep only prog 08:22 toins (on the intranet there is only prog)