IRC log for #koha, 2006-04-15

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:51 thd kados: I just sent you the bzipped file.  Sending had failed to work this morning because the gzipped file had exceeded my quota for attachment size.
12:51 kados thd: thanks
12:51 kados thd: I'll take a look asap
12:53 thd kados: the useful file content is not very large but the HTML log files contained even unused records :)
12:55 kados thd: very useful explaination
12:55 kados thd: in the email
12:55 kados thd: thanks
12:56 thd kados: I try to avoid being incomplete in explanation :)
14:27 kados owen: have you worked at all on the barcodes stuff?
14:28 kados owen: if so, could you commit what you've got?
14:28 kados owen: I was gonna work on it a bit but wanted to avoid merge conflicts
14:29 owen I /did/ work on it.  Then I overwrote it with a CVS update. :(
14:30 kados hehe
14:30 owen It was just cleanup, though.  Easy to do again. *sigh*
14:30 owen Say, while you're here...
14:31 owen Is there any reason why the AmazonContent system pref shouldn't apply to OPAC and Intranet both?
14:31 kados owen: no, just haven't merged that stuff again
14:31 kados owen: I'll hack on the barcodes stuff
14:31 kados owen: get it working first
14:32 kados owen: then you can beautify it :-)
14:32 owen Right now it's inside "unless ($in->{'type'} eq "intranet") {"
14:32 owen Can I just move the 'AmazonContent => C4::Context->preference("AmazonContent"),' outside of that unless?
14:34 owen Hmmm... looks like I can.
14:54 owen kados: why doesn't labels-home.pl belong in /barcodes ?
15:06 kados owen: all the -home stuff should go in the root dir
15:06 kados owen: ok, cvs is updated as far as placement and links go
15:07 kados owen: it's all yours
15:07 kados owen: I've send a mail to mason with a list of remaining tasks
15:07 kados owen: having to do with db updating, installer, etc.
15:08 kados owen: re: amacon change, sure
15:08 kados owen: not sure why it was wrapped in that to begin with
16:04 osmoze hello
16:39 slef hello osmoze
16:40 slef Are the .nz working today or is it a holiday there now?
16:57 kados i think it's holiday until tuesday
16:57 kados monday for us
17:20 chris yep its a holiday, im around for the next 20 mins or so tho if you need something slef?
17:39 slef chris: mostly curious. Nothing in partic unless you can make si /mode #koha -t ;-)
17:39 slef kados: what? The US doesn't celebrate Easter Monday?
17:40 kados slef: no idea, I don't do holidays :-)
17:41 chris ahh, ill ask next time i see him slef
17:41 chris easter and christmas nz pretty much shuts down ... you have to get permission to trade
17:42 kados heh
17:42 chris and you have to pay your staff double time
17:42 chris i think its double time .. might be time and a half
17:42 chris so only gas stations, movie theatres and restaurants generally
17:42 chris oh and there is a rogue garden store chain
17:42 chris that opens and gets fined every year
17:43 kados hehe
17:44 chris then we have anzac day next tuesday .. lots of public holidays in april
17:44 chris (the 25th)
17:44 slef chris: it's like Eng 20 years ago...
17:45 chris :-)
17:45 chris 20 years ago .. shops didnt open on sundays
17:45 slef although in the village I grew up, it closed pretty much every weekend
17:45 chris and there was no advertising on tv on sundays
17:45 chris in nz
17:46 chris i forget when 6 oclock closing ended
17:47 chris 1967
17:47 chris it got changed to 10 oclock closing
17:47 chris i dont think there is a set time anymore, there are bars that seem to never be closed :)
17:48 slef we've only just got deregulated opening times for bars
17:48 chris does mail come on sunday in the US joshua?
17:48 slef shops have been 24 hours for a while
17:48 chris ahh yes i remember seeing that on the news slef
17:48 slef s/deregulated/derestricted/
17:48 chris right
17:48 slef still the police object to pretty much all applications for longer hours
17:49 slef as far as I can tell
17:49 slef given most the bars in this town, that's probably correct, though :-/
17:49 chris :)
17:49 chris whats the drinking age 20?
17:49 slef England has binge drinking trouble as we adapt to the idea that alcohol is always available
17:49 slef 18
17:50 chris ahh same as here then
17:50 chris yeah, binge drinking is still a problem in nz
17:51 chris mainly young kids
17:52 chris so they are proposing to raise the drinking age again .. which i suspect wont do a damn thing except hide the problem again
17:52 slef and you can legally drink younger than that in some situations which I forget
17:52 slef personally, I think if you're old enough to get it, you're old enough to drink it... sooner you start, sooner you learn when to stop
17:52 slef as ever, some people are slower learners than others ;-)
17:52 slef I just hope the English figure out drinking before we drag the rest of Europe down with us
17:52 slef I think only the Nordics have a worse reputation... and they had even tighter alcohol restrictions!
17:52 chris IMO there isnt actually anymore drinking going on by 18,19 year olds, its just they can do it in the open now
17:52 slef for sure
17:53 chris i forget where in the UK are u slef?
17:53 chris i have friends who I went to uni with, who are pharmacists in bristol
18:05 chris hi kyle
18:05 chris nice work on the template, very snazzy
18:05 kados hey kyle
18:09 slef Someone buy .nz a new link to the world, please.
18:10 slef at least to .uk
18:10 slef <slef> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/blog/2006/cyclynn has some pictures of just
18:10 slef           outside town
18:10 slef <slef> yes, it is really that flat
18:10 slef <slef> no, it's not all like that here (despite what some morons tell you)
18:10 slef <slef> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/photos/lynn/lynnwide is the town, as seen from
18:10 slef           across the river
18:10 slef <chris> i have friends who I went to uni with, who are pharmacists in bristol
18:10 slef *** The server says: ERROR :Closing Link: 50-30-55-213.adsl.realpoptel.net
18:10 chris ahh cool
18:11 slef what did I miss?
18:11 chris nothing really
18:11 chris i just congratulated kyle on the template he committed
18:11 chris and kados said hi, thats about it
18:12 slef Bristol is about 4hrs train or full-speed driving away
18:12 slef but I'll probably move there soon
18:12 slef well, near
18:13 chris ahh ok
18:14 slef btw, if you mouseover bits of the image, the titles tell you what's what
18:14 slef on lynnwide that is
18:14 chris oohh tricky
18:15 chris thats cool
18:15 slef I can't identify everything
18:15 slef there are buildings you see really clearly from Ferry Square that I don't usually notice
18:15 chris http://photos.bigballofwax.co.[…]llington.jpg.html
18:16 chris how many people live there?
18:16 slef 10k in the main town, 40k inside the bypass
18:17 chris right, so quite small in the scheme of things
18:17 slef (there are four or so villages inside the bypass, slowing running into the town)
18:17 chris ahh right
18:17 slef yes and no
18:18 slef I think it's a very small town, but it's the biggest place for 35 miles by land
18:18 chris right, its reasonably sized compared to a lot of places in nz too
18:19 slef most of the stuff until those places to the south and west looks like the pictures from the bridge
18:19 slef so it has more shops and stuff than a town of 10k usually would
18:19 Genji hello all.
18:19 slef and more factories... it's just generally a bit wrong
18:20 slef hello Genji
18:21 slef how many in Wellington?
18:21 chris hmm good question
18:21 chris 3 are 4 cities .. wellington itself, porirua, hutt city, and upper hutt ... i think combined its around 600k
18:22 chris im not sure how many in wellington proper
18:22 slef look of it reminds me of Toronto somehow
18:22 slef apart from the wooded hill, which reminds me of Worlebury (small, don't ask)
18:22 chris heh
18:22 Genji okay.. im going to be doing chores but can someone please inform me of the current bugs and feature requests on Koha? want to get back into it.
18:24 chris ah ha
18:24 chris 2001 census 163k in wellington city
18:24 chris 423k in wellington region
18:25 slef is the region much bigger?
18:25 chris hmmm, kados might be the best one to answer that genji
18:26 chris well it includes those other 3 cities .. but from the city of the centre to the outlying cities, furthest one would be 30 mins in a car
18:26 chris centre of the city even :)
18:27 Genji when is kados most active?
18:27 chris http://maps.google.com/maps?f=[…]0.282259,0.839767
18:28 chris wellington city is at teh southern end of the harbour
18:28 chris across the harbour to the northeast is huttcity, and upper hutt
18:28 slef http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/worlebury-hill.asp but it only has a picture of Crook Peak on the other side of the valley (picture with the Hutton label)
18:28 chris and north is porirua
18:29 slef heh, maps.google.com is a night view here
18:29 slef biiig black rectangle
18:29 chris heh
18:29 chris thats not that helpful :)
18:29 slef http://uk2.multimap.com/client[…]000&scale=4000000
18:30 chris genji: might be a good idea to drop a mail to koha-devel that way lots of eyes willl see it
18:30 slef next large place is peterborough, 33 miles WSW
18:30 chris ahh
18:31 slef next political capital upwards is Norwich, 45 miles E
18:31 chris right, i have a much better idea now
18:31 slef forgot I had that map bookmarked
18:31 chris im not sure why, but i had it my head you were way more to the west
18:32 Genji we dont have a bugzilla anymore?
18:32 chris yep we do
18:32 chris bugs.koha.org
18:32 slef .uk sites don't like concave coastlines - I search for cinema showings and get results for "Skegness, 22 miles North"
18:32 chris anything there you are welcome to have a go at
18:32 slef (~70 miles by road)
18:32 chris heh
18:33 slef chris: I'm from near Northampton and spend some time near Bristol.
18:33 slef went to uni in Norwich and got distracted on the way back
18:34 chris hehe
18:34 slef that was, what, 12 years ago now
18:38 Genji what libs use NPL templates?
18:38 chris ok im gonna go out for a bit and enjoy some sun
18:39 chris probably be back later
18:39 chris NPL do genji .. and i think liblime's clients use variants of it but im not sure
19:04 Genji how is it that all bugs are assigned to people, even though its status is NEW?
19:14 slef bugzilla assigns them automatically
19:14 slef doesn't mean much unless they accept them
19:22 kados thd: you around?
19:24 thd kados: yes I am sending you some media type code
19:24 kados thd: the script's 90% done
19:24 kados thd: already got the media type codes
19:24 kados thd: http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/Bib0443.htm
19:24 kados thd: unless they go above and beyone that list
19:24 kados thd: the script works like a charm
19:25 kados thd: just have to add a few more things and I'll be done
19:25 kados thd: but I can actually insert the files as they are so you can look at them
19:27 thd kados: I have more media type code than you could determine from that page.
19:27 thd kados: you may be missing something for books.
19:28 thd kados: I will send my code in two minutes.
19:28 kados thd: do they all rely on the leader?
19:29 thd kados: my code starts with the leader but you have to use both leader positions 06 and 07.
19:30 thd kados: media type quickly becomes complex after leader but leader code is sufficient for what we need today.
19:30 kados k
19:31 kados thd: leader position6 only has two values, right?
19:32 thd kados: more than two
19:38 thd kados: you should have the message now
19:41 Genji kados: media type codes? like my idea i implemented last year?
19:42 thd Genji: what was your idea?
19:43 Genji hmm... checking if its still in the cvs...
19:44 Genji the root of koha module has been trimmed extremely....
19:45 Genji okay...
19:46 Genji ah... maybe mediatype is different.. but my implementation, which is in cvs, is mediatype -> itemtype-> itemsubtype
19:47 thd kados: obviously parts of my code are missing something as I stopped part way through but those issues can be easily fixed.  Some variables certainly need a larger scope or some different treatment.
19:48 thd Genji: how did you determine media type in your code?
19:50 thd Genji: kados and I were discussing reading some media type information from the leader, etc. for copy catalogued records.
19:50 Genji new tables... media type table, itemtype table, itemsubtype table... one linked to the other. for instance... CNFB means Children nonfiction books... ahh.. copying cataloged records.. right. haven't got that far.
19:52 kados thd:  remember that error you were having when attempting to import record #11?
19:53 kados thd: these records have some major problems with encoding
19:53 kados thd: mostlikely because of the way they were saved
19:53 kados thd: did you write binmode utf8 when you wrote them to file?
19:53 kados thd: (did php or perl write them to file?)
19:54 kados thd: (and were they downloaded in raw format?)
19:54 thd Genji: the media type is a very amorphous term.  MARC generally uses media types contained in standard cataloguing rules but spreads the information all over the record while the leader contains the most important information in positions 06 and 07.
19:54 kados the script i wrote dies with:
19:54 kados utf8 "\xEC" does not map to Unicode at /usr/lib/perl/5.8/Encode.pm line 164, <INFILE> line 171.
19:54 kados on record #11
19:55 thd kados: they were raw and I mostly had no problems but I did nothing to encode the raw data.  The raw data was the raw data except for display.
19:56 thd kados: Is record 11 Unicode and not MARC 8?
19:57 kados no
19:57 kados NUMBER 10 =>
19:57 kados LDR 00450cam  2200157   4500
19:57 kados NUMBER 11 =>
19:57 kados LDR 01467cam  2200361 i 4500
19:57 kados at least it claims to be marc-8
19:57 thd kados: look at 11.html .  Do you see anything wrong?
19:57 kados however, it's perl that's complaining in this case
19:58 kados thd: no, not sure what that would tell me anyway
19:58 kados thd: it's the encoding of a char that's the prob
19:59 thd kados: why does Perl want to complain about characters that should all be ASCII.
19:59 thd ?
20:00 thd kados: what is the offending character?
20:00 Genji offline for chores
20:01 thd kados: These records should not have encoding issues except for maybe some native Alaskan language characters which I had not noticed in any records.
20:03 thd kados: does YAZ itself have some encoding bugs?
20:12 thd kados: PHP wrote to the raw records but did not alter their content except for later in the code where htmlspecialchars() is used for encoding to post the record in a form for manual record saving only after LWP directed automated saving has already happened.  The htmlspecialchars() encoding is removed at the time of manual saving after parsing the post information.
20:13 thd kados: I specifically avoided passing the raw record over LWP to avoid any possible encoding problems.
20:15 thd kados: raw is as raw as YAZ provided.  If there are encoding problems those existed in the original record.  Would Columbia University Library really inflict encoding problems on an unsuspecting world? :)
20:27 kados thd: i found a workaround finally
20:27 kados thd: 479 records in the file?
20:28 thd kados: what was the problem?
20:28 kados thd: bad encoding
20:29 thd kados: where was the bad encoding?
20:30 kados thd: in several of the records
20:30 kados thd: it's impossible to know where
20:30 thd kados: I think there should be 456 records in the file.
20:30 kados I have 479 :-)
20:30 kados importing them into Koha now
20:31 kados http://library.afognak.org/
20:31 thd kados: ok more is better, maybe my script miscounted.
20:31 kados hmmm, some have 0 count
20:31 kados must be a flaw in my script
20:32 kados and we've got major encoding probs
20:32 kados http://library.afognak.org/cgi[…]-detail.pl?bib=12
20:32 kados for instance
20:33 thd kados: that is very pretty, are they all like that?
20:34 kados maybe we only have a few encoding probs
20:34 kados some of the records didn't conver to to utf-8
20:34 kados 12 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 13 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 128 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 175 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 219 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 299 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 302 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 326 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 330 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 331 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 332 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 333 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 334 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 393 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 407 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 15 to be exact
20:34 kados I bet everything but those 15 is ok
20:35 thd kados: what happened to record 11?
20:36 thd which would not have been 11.html because there were gaps.
20:40 thd kados: look at the bad record more importantly entirely different record in the MARC view from the detail view for http://library.afognak.org/cgi[…]-detail.pl?bib=12
20:42 thd kados: the MARC record looks like the bad title only match for "Am salmon"
20:46 kados thd: explain to me how the records are saved in the file with the tabs
20:46 thd or rather author title which are also suspect matches
20:47 kados thd: I think the problem with this whole thing is that you saved binary marc files with all different encodings into a file without specifying or controling the encoding
20:47 kados thd: so that file has mixed encoding
20:49 kados nope, I'm wrong about even that
20:49 thd            if (!empty($save_best) && !empty($recQuality) && $bestRec == 1) {
20:49 thd                $fh = fopen($marcCaptureFile, 'a') or die("can't open file");
20:49 thd                fwrite($fh, $rawRec);
20:49 thd                fclose($fh);
20:49 thd                $extraValues[] = "";
20:49 thd                $extraValues = array($progress, $version,
20:49 thd                        $recQuality, $recYearMatch, $hostSpec,
20:49 thd                        $search_fields, $isbn, $author, $title,
20:49 thd                        $publication, $pub_place, $pub_year,
20:49 thd                        $l_subject, $l_subject_subdivision,
20:49 thd                $purchased_price, $quantity, $rawRec);
20:49 thd                $extraValuesRow = implode("\t", $extraValues) . "\n";
20:49 thd                $fh = fopen($marcExtraValuesFile, 'a') or die("can't open file");
20:49 thd                fwrite($fh, $extraValuesRow);
20:49 thd                fclose($fh);
20:49 thd            }
20:49 kados thd: is this perl?
20:50 thd kados: no Perl uses join for join not implode :)
20:53 kados thd: so this is php?
20:53 thd kados: I assume that you would have the same problems if you tried importing the MARC records from the MARC records only file.
20:53 kados thd: I have even more probs
20:53 thd yes PHP :(
20:53 kados hmmm
20:54 kados I don't know what to say
20:54 kados hmmm
20:54 thd kados: what are the more problems?
20:55 kados how can we salvage this?
20:55 thd kados: I can send you the scripts and we can rerun everything form your speedy system after we find the problem.
20:55 kados hmmm
20:56 thd \kados: what is the problem except for 15 records?
20:56 kados I don't even know where to begin looking for the problem
20:56 thd kados: but what problem do you actually see aside from 15 records?
20:57 kados well, I can't seem to convert the marc-8 to utf-8
20:57 kados because of the encoding probs
20:57 kados so if I leave everything as marc-8
20:57 kados I can import all but 3 or so
20:58 kados and at least 15 records appear mangled
20:58 thd kados: I was uncertain about how I added the newline separating the rows but do you see a problem there for . "\n"
20:58 thd ?
20:58 kados yes that is also a problem
20:58 kados but I was able to correct that
20:58 kados in a true marc file
20:59 kados you wouldn't have \n as the last char
20:59 kados I was able to chomp() that line to remove it
21:00 thd kados: yes of course but was there any strange character just before the newline?
21:01 kados thd: well, there is the end of file that every marc has
21:02 thd kados: as long as that is a well formed end of file then that is fine.
21:04 thd kados: what happens if you try to import the records from the MARC only file?
21:04 thd kados: What workaround did you use for the 11th record?
21:04 kados thd: it dies on record 171 if I try to import from marc only
21:05 thd kados: so in Perl you made some character conversion?
21:12 kados thd: first I tried doing nothing with encoding
21:12 kados then, I tried converting everything to utf-89
21:12 kados utf-8 even
21:12 kados basically the real problem
21:13 kados is that the records weren't saved correctly
21:13 kados they must have been re-encoded by php or something
21:14 kados were they downloaded directly in binary marc or were they scraped off an html page?
21:14 thd kados: there were direct raw MARC so that we would not have this problem?
21:15 kados hmmm
21:15 kados very strange
21:15 thd s/there/they/
21:15 kados so how did you acomplish the download?
21:15 kados sometimes if you don't specify a binary transfer it doesn't do a binary transfer
21:15 kados is that a possible cause of the problem?
21:18 thd kados: $rawRec = yaz_record($id[$i],$p,"raw");
21:18 thd kados: raw is raw
21:18 kados huh
21:19 kados then presumably you write that $rawRec to a filehandle?
21:19 kados huh ... what version of yaz are you running on that box?
21:20 thd yes, written directly to filehandle
21:24 thd kados: I have YAZ version 2.1.8-4
21:28 thd kados: I think I built PHP/YAZ for PHP5 because the Debian package is only for PHP4, and rather old.
21:30 thd kados: Do you want to try running against the sample 29 records on your system?
21:33 thd s/running/running the LWP and PHP script/
21:36 thd kados: are all records affected or only 15?
21:58 thd kados: the content is ASCII the conversion presumably does nothing but change the indicated encoding in the leader
21:58 thd s/the/if the/
21:59 kados ok, so whether or not I convert to utf-8 it crashes on number 171
21:59 kados I was mistaken that they all imported if they were not re-encoded
21:59 thd kados: that is the 171st record imported?
21:59 kados yep
21:59 kados well, give or take one :-)
21:59 kados my counting is notoriously off by one :-)
22:00 thd :)
22:00 kados thd: I'm going to try eliminating all problematic records from the write
22:01 thd kados:that sound like an excellent plan
22:03 thd at least as long as the remaining records are at least one
22:15 kados I'm going to just have to manually skip the problem records
22:34 thd kados: I do a character conversion for display from a separate variable.  Maybe a PHP bug creates an upstream problem.  $rec is used for display only.                  $rec = yaz_record($id[$i],$p,"render; charset=marc8,utf-8");
22:34 kados hmmm
22:34 kados it might set the charset in yaz-record
22:34 kados or something
22:36 thd kados: maybe I should be setting the value of $rawRec first in  $rawRec = yaz_record($id[$i],$p,"raw");
22:36 thd kados: order that the variables were set had not seemed important
22:37 thd and it should not be important :)
22:37 kados agreed
22:37 kados but it might be
22:40 kados wow, this is strange
22:40 thd kados: what is strange?
22:40 kados in this case, it dies on record 17 even if I delete records 10-25
22:41 thd kados: delete records 10-25 again
22:42 kados i did
22:42 thd and?
22:42 kados same error
22:42 thd did it die on 17 again?
22:42 kados yep
22:42 thd kados: that is a loop error unless 17 is an unlucky number
22:44 thd kados: koha has many loop errors in the templates at least.
23:39 thd kados: after moving the setting of $rawRec for saving before $rec for display, I still have the XML/parser error on the 11th record.
23:50 kados thd: got 398 records in
23:50 kados thd: http://library.afognak.org
23:51 kados thd: a search on 'and' pulls up 298 of them
23:51 kados thd: seems like quite a few duplicates in there
23:55 kados and I don't see any with more than one copy
23:58 Genji kados: you awake?
23:58 kados Genji: barely :-)
23:59 Genji kados: good enuf. Im looking at doing some koha devel... have any particular bug / feature enhancement you think I could tackle on my first day back?
23:59 kados great news!
00:00 kados know much about encoding?
00:00 Genji hmm.... not really. what sort of encoding?
00:00 kados we're currently really hurting in the encoding area
00:00 kados character encoding
00:00 Genji utf8?
00:00 kados iso-8859-1 vs utf-8 vs marc-8, etc.
00:00 kados we need Koha to be able to handle any encoding we hand it
00:01 kados well ...
00:01 kados there's other stuff
00:01 kados that's just first on my mind
00:01 kados have you tried out the new zebra plugin?
00:01 kados there's plenty of work to do on zebra
00:01 kados in head
00:02 kados hmmm
00:02 kados not quite
00:02 kados we have that already
00:02 kados in the form of MARC::File::XML
00:03 kados I've been struggling with a bug
00:03 kados related to encoding
00:03 kados in rel_2_2
00:03 kados if you use a Koha that has iso-8859 encoding in the db
00:03 kados and you upgrade to rel_2_2
00:04 kados when you edit existing records
00:04 kados the special characters get mangled
00:04 kados I think it's perl's fault
00:04 kados but I haven't been successful in tracking down exactly where it's happening
00:06 Genji special characters like accented e's etc?
00:06 kados yep
00:07 Genji so... perl is converting the characters before the script has the chance to convert them?
00:08 kados well, it's complicated
00:08 kados if you use CVS rel_2_2
00:08 kados and you updatedatabase
00:08 kados there's a new syspref
00:08 kados TemplateEncoding
00:08 kados set that to the desired encoding
00:08 kados so if you're running an old Koha
00:08 kados it should probably be
00:09 kados iso-8859
00:09 kados (if it's unimarc that is)
00:09 kados (in marc21 there are only two valid encodings: marc8 and utf8)
00:09 kados so ... once you've done that
00:09 kados look in addbiblio.pl
00:10 kados ahh ... before that
00:10 kados you need to upgrade MARC::Record, MARC::File::XML and MARC::Charset
00:10 kados to the latest sourceforge versions
00:10 kados the CPAN versions won't cut it
00:10 kados hehe
00:10 kados k
00:10 kados cool
00:13 si happy easter, joshua
00:13 kados si: can you oper me?
00:13 kados si: you too :-)
00:13 kados go /set +o kados
00:14 si or indeed
00:14 si /mode #koha +o kados
00:14 kados woot
00:14 kados thx
00:14 si no worries
00:15 kados hehe
00:19 thd kados: the source file had many duplicates
00:21 kados thd: right ...
00:21 kados thd: multiple items are now working
00:21 kados http://library.afognak.org/cgi[…]-detail.pl?bib=26
00:21 thd kados: sometimes the same record appears in the source both with and without an ISBN
00:26 si russ, you might find this useful
00:26 si http://video.google.com/videop[…]imoncelli&pl=true
00:27 si ack, wrong #
00:27 thd kados: from that record it seems that you created 690 subfields even when the values for the 690 subfields were empty
00:32 kados thd: fixing that now
00:33 kados thd: fixed
00:39 thd kados: there is a similar issue for cost, purchase price.
00:39 kados yep, investigating now
00:56 thd kados: that record is actually a bad match.  OCLC does not have what the record ought to be.  That goes with the unfindable shareholder guides to a native corporation.
01:02 thd kados: I suppose that any characters in MARC 8 would necessarily exist in Unicode.  I assume MARC::Charset includes every native american language in MARC 8.
01:48 Genji ok.. back again... on and off doing dishes....
02:44 Genji hiya all
02:47 pierrick hi Genji
02:53 Genji pierrick: whats your pet bug/idea for koha?
02:57 pierrick Genji, sorry, I'm not native englush speaker :-/ what do you mean "pet bug/idea"?
02:57 pierrick s/englush/english
03:00 paul hello all
03:00 pierrick hello Paul
03:04 ToinS hello
04:03 thd pierrick: It seems that Genji missed answering your English question.  Pet something is favourite something, usually a personal favourite.
04:07 thd pierrick: I think Genji was trying to ask what special idea were you interested in pursuing or implementing in Koha.
04:08 thd pierrick: a bug in this context is something that keeps motivating you to pursue something.
04:09 thd pierrick: are you there?
04:14 pierrick thd, I'm back
04:14 pierrick thd, thank you for precision
04:15 thd pierrick: So what are you specially interested in pursing in or for Koha?
04:15 paul thd : a quick english question
04:15 thd yes paul
04:15 pierrick Genji, I have no "pet idea/bug" for the moment. Maybe I'm interested in tagging biblio from users and presenting something like a tag cloud and related tags
04:15 paul is "collectivity" a correct word so speak of an professional organisation
04:16 paul (an institution, a company...)
04:16 paul because i'm afraid it's a frenchism
04:16 paul "collectivité"
04:16 thd paul: Yes that is perfect French:)
04:17 thd paul: try organisation
04:18 thd paul: that would be the most interchangeable general term for institution, company, etc.
04:18 paul pierrick: 1st bug squashing meeting => 18th, april, but which time ?
04:20 paul (i should be here, with my tank, 2 fighters, 1 cruiser and at least 5 companies. I'll also get my +5 sword of the paladin and my shield of the deadbug)
04:21 pierrick paul, I've written a specific mail for BSP
04:22 paul ok, I missed it
04:22 thd paul: you need some special potions to keep the bugs from returning from the dead
04:23 thd pierrick: what is tagging biblios from users?
04:24 paul tagging biblios is a very interesting idea, if I understand what it is ;-)
04:25 thd paul: if you understand what is it?
04:25 paul yes, I think I know what pierrick  is speaking of, and i'm waiting for it's explanations.
04:25 paul but if i'm right, it's an interesting idea ;-)
04:25 Genji whats tagging biblios?
04:26 thd paul: I hope it is even an interesting idea if you are wrong :)
04:26 pierrick http://lists.nongnu.org/archiv[…]-10/msg00011.html
04:27 pierrick I wanted to see if you already had the idea before me, and yes. But it does not seem to have been implemented
04:28 thd pierrick: How would you describe tagging biblios from users?  I know hat the individual words mean but not the concept that you are attempting to describe.
04:28 pierrick "Tagging" is a very common features nowadays in applications managing items (any kind of items).
04:29 Genji hmmm.. users tag.. as in add subjects to their own books?
04:29 thd pierrick: I have had a few interesting ideas before you were born :)
04:29 pierrick thd, an example: you're connected to the OPAC, you can add some tag to a biblio
04:30 thd pierrick: you mean user added notes fields.
04:30 pierrick thd, yes some kind of
04:31 pierrick but maybe having only "tagging" and not "user tagging" would be enough
04:31 pierrick The idea is the new navigation way it creates
04:32 thd pierrick: well the cataloguer can already add notes if that is what you mean by tagging.
04:32 pierrick thd, why not using it
04:33 pierrick what I mean is having this kind of navigation : http://www.modusoptimus.com/bsf/tags.php
04:33 thd pierrick: what do you mean by why not using it?
04:33 pierrick I mean I don't really mind were tags come from
04:33 pierrick from users, from librarians...
04:34 thd pierrick: yes records need as many access points and as much content as can be provided.
04:34 pierrick the origin is a question, but IMO the most important is the navigation
04:35 pierrick if users can participate, it can be interesting but not mandatory
04:35 thd pierrick: such tags seem like user added subject headings.
04:35 pierrick thd, yes. The admin of the gallery has added the tags manually
04:35 pierrick (through metadata in reality)
04:37 pierrick having a navigation mode based on chronology would be interesting too
04:38 pierrick I think the current OPAC is only a search form while we could provide other navigation modes
04:38 thd pierrick: I had asked hdl some time ago why that was not already a feature extension to the virtual bookshelves.
04:38 paul pierrick: the best would be to have a world-wide tag system, based on ISBN
04:38 pierrick search mode, tag mod, category mode, chronology mode, best rated, most read, etc.
04:39 paul when a library from Koha network get a tag, it is send to a central server, that can distribute it to all libraries during the night.
04:39 thd pierrick: that is a very important concept.  Blank search forms are a very limited concept.
04:39 paul OK guys, I've just commited many many things for borrowers improvements.
04:39 pierrick paul, that would mean the set of avilable tags is centralized
04:40 paul it works correctly for me, I think i've commited everything. Could someone check that an update of CVS + updater/updatedatabase make the feature working ?
04:40 paul you can check what it does at :
04:41 paul http://i20.bureau.paulpoulain.[…]s/members-home.pl
04:41 paul (login test/test)
04:41 pierrick thd, my experience is 5 years of photo gallery development, and IMO managing biblio is not that different from managing photographs
04:41 paul pierrick: why do you want an available tag list ?
04:41 thd pierrick: It would not need to be centralised if every library was free to add individual fields and subfields from records at any other library automatically in a distributed network.
04:41 pierrick thd, in PWG there are several mode of navigation, not only the search one.
04:42 paul I thought such system where without any available tag list, and the user could enter what he wants.
04:42 thd pierrick: what is PWG?
04:42 pierrick thd, PhpWebGallery
04:43 pierrick paul, don't you think it would become a real mess if all libraries share their tags?
04:43 paul in fact, i'm not sure there would be so many ppl entering tags. so having them worldwide could improve a lot their interest
04:43 paul oups, I must leave NOW
04:44 thd paul: well one could have both a standard tag thesaurus and free form tagging.  One need not exclude the other.
04:45 thd pierrick: the user can have filters to protect himself from the mess potential.
04:46 pierrick thd, of course, it could mandatory that a librarian validate tags before making them public
04:47 thd pierrick: I favour standard thesauri but I also like the idea of giving users freedom to contribute to the library in any way that is comfortable to the user.
04:48 pierrick I know an online service blogmarks.net that let each user have public and private tags on their bookmarks
04:49 thd pierrick: yes there will always be the issue of the librarian needing to protect the library institution form users who may see public tagging as a forum for causing mischief :)
04:49 thd s./form/from/
04:51 thd pierrick: I would like to see such a feature implemented in a MARC compliant manner even if it would inevitably lead to breaking the ISO 2709 record size barrier requiring XML.
04:51 thd pierrick: How is your study of MARC going?
04:52 pierrick after this discussion, I would answer Genji that I would like to have other navigation mode in the OPAC, not only the search mode
04:53 pierrick thd, not very far. I think I understand the tag/subfields structure. I don't bind description to each tag/subfield depending on the MARC flavour
04:55 thd pierrick: full marks!!  see my brief paragraphs about the alternative to the search paridym at http://www.agogme.com
04:56 thd s/paradym/paradym/
04:57 thd pierrick: you should look at a library science textbook to understand the concepts behind what goes into MARC well.
05:10 thd pierrick: There is a generally well respected book by Chan, although, I unfortunately do not have a copy.
05:12 thd pierrick: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0070105065
05:14 thd pierrick: I do not know what might be a French equivalent, but would be pleased to know
05:16 pierrick thanks a lot thd, I don't need a translation, the majority of my technical books are in english
05:24 thd pierrick: the Chan book is most likely excellent but it may be helpful to consult also a book on French UNIMARC practise.
05:24 thd pierrick: http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2765405514
05:29 slef ;-)
05:29 thd pierrick: and volume 2 http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2765408246
05:31 thd what is this error:  Can't locate object method "as_xml" via package "MARC::Record" ?
05:34 pierrick slef, what does "puts the boot" means?
05:36 thd pierrick: Savannah hardware is not fast enough for me to see exactly what slef means yet.
05:37 thd pierrick: the term may generally mean to impolitely kick another in the trousers for obtaining attention severely.
05:38 slef thd: it's obtaining possession of the football by kicking the player in the back of the leg
05:39 pierrick slef, you answered to my mail about forum Vs mailing-list?
05:39 slef yep
05:40 pierrick didn't received yet
05:40 thd slef: I understand what that would mean but that leaves me even more uncertain of your message.
05:40 pierrick but I had hoped you wouldn't answer
05:42 slef thd: je rigole
05:42 thd pierrick: FSF is buying new servers for the mail system and improving the routing so the mail queue may not be an endless disc thrashing session in a few months.  They know the delay of the mail queue is a very important issue.
05:44 slef http://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/lists
05:48 thd slef: well yes that was a point of significant discussion and a special presentation at the FSF members meeting.
05:52 thd slef: at least the FSF mail system is not any worse than I have experienced on Sourceforge.  All Koha devel messages are at least appearing in the log without loss eventually :)
06:34 slef thd++
07:50 pierrick kados, are you around?
08:14 kados pierrick: am now
08:15 pierrick I'm testing the zebra plugin (still installing it)
08:15 kados cool
08:15 pierrick mis/missing090field.pl is not in rel_2_2 but in HEAD
08:15 pierrick (and it should not be, I suppose)
08:16 kados hmmm
08:16 kados right
08:16 kados could you commit it to rel_2_2?
08:16 pierrick I you want
08:16 pierrick if you want
08:16 kados yep
08:18 pierrick done
08:18 kados thx
08:25 kados paul_away: are you here?
08:25 pierrick pierrick@plegall:~/dev/koha/head/misc/zebra$ wc -l  ./unimarc/zebra.cfg ./usmarc/zebra.cfg
08:25 pierrick  31 ./unimarc/zebra.cfg
08:25 pierrick  65 ./usmarc/zebra.cfg
08:26 pierrick should I suppose unimarc zebra configuration file is not up to date at all?
08:26 kados pierrick: yep :-)
08:29 pierrick are there difference between the two files?
08:29 kados well, yes
08:29 pierrick (should there be differences?)
08:29 kados I think so
08:29 kados lemme look quickly
08:29 pierrick :-/
08:30 kados pierrick: no they can be the same
08:30 pierrick OK
08:30 pierrick thx
08:31 pierrick kados, you created a "kohaplugin" user on your system?
08:34 thd kados: what causes this error from bulkmarcimport.pl on any MARC record:   Can't locate object method "as_xml" via package "MARC::Record" ?
08:37 thd kados: I last updated MARC::XML a few weeks ago but the current CPAN version has a make test error.
08:38 thd kados: rel_2_2 is now so broken for me that I cannot import even one record :(
08:38 kados pierrick: no, no kohaplugin user
08:38 kados thd: you must use the sourceforge version of MARC::File::XML
08:39 kados thd: the cpan version has a make test error?
08:39 thd kados: yes I was using the CPAN version
08:40 kados thd: did you install MARC::Charset?
08:40 kados thd: check kohadocs.org for instructions on installing the latest sourceforge versions
08:40 kados thd: my 'installing on debian' document has details
08:40 thd kados: MARC::Charset and MARC::Record are up to date
08:41 kados thd: MARC::Record needs to be installed from Sourceforge
08:41 kados thd: as with MARC::Charset
08:41 kados thd: the CPAN versions aren't up to date
08:46 thd kados: I have succeeded slowly in capturing more MARC records by gradually adding targets and searching the correct form of serial titles.  I am a little less than half way through the 615 records.
08:46 thd s/615/no hits from 615/
08:48 kados thd: do those MARC records have the same encoding probs as the first batch?
08:48 kados (out of curiosity)
08:49 thd kados: I think the only encoding problems were some native Alaskan names.
08:50 thd kados: I cannot import any record at the moment so I cannot determine encoding problems even for my old ASCII only records :0
08:51 thd kados: Why is CPAN behind?
08:51 kados thd: CPAN: it's a long story
08:51 kados thd: involving some people at follett
08:51 thd kados: I thought that you were updating CPAN to avoid this problem
08:52 kados thd: yes, I do have access to MARC::File::XML finally
08:52 kados thd: but sourceforge version has some untested functions that need to be tested before being put in CPAN
08:52 kados hey slef
08:53 kados slef: you've dealt with encoding issues in perl, right?
08:53 kados slef: utf8 "\xEB" does not map to Unicode at ./afognak2koha.pl line 25, <INFILE> line 1.
08:53 kados slef: is there any way to get Encode to just warn rather than die on that error?
08:54 thd kados: what about the possibility that the MARC::Charset mapping or Unicode is incomplete for native Alaskan languages?
08:54 kados it's possible
08:55 kados thd: but line 1 is : InDesign CS2 for dummies
08:55 slef what's afognak2koha.pl line 25 ?
08:55 kados slef: while (my $line = <INFILE>) {
08:56 kados where INFILE is:
08:56 kados open(INFILE, "<:utf8",$infile);
08:56 thd kados: well if that is the record how could there be any non-ASCII characters?
08:56 kados thd: I have no idea, there must be something going on somewhere in that yaz or php stuff
08:58 slef kados: why are you trying to open a non-utf8 $infile with :utf8?
08:58 kados slef: either way I get the error
08:58 kados slef: the reason is because there are some wide chars in the file
08:59 slef what encoding is $infile?
08:59 kados slef: it's one of the problems with a batch file of marc records - they can lie about their encoding ... claiming to be marc-8 but actually some other encoding
08:59 kados slef: it seems to be a combo of encodings :-)
08:59 kados slef: but I'm assuming either mostly 8859 or marc-8
09:00 kados slef: with a few hundred wide chars thrown in
09:00 slef 8859-which? Can file figure it out?
09:00 kados hmmm ... not sure how to do that
09:01 slef file yourbatchfile # on the command line
09:01 kados k
09:01 kados file ../alaska_mrc.mrc #
09:01 kados ../alaska_mrc.mrc: data
09:01 slef you can try <:raw instead, but you may end up outputting gibberish if you can't fix the encoding
09:02 kados I'll try that
09:02 slef Have you read man perlunicode?
09:02 kados still dies on the first record
09:02 kados yea, but I could probably do a re-read
09:04 slef hrm, I guess you get to play "guess the encoding" if this is a one-off
09:06 kados the thing that gets my goat is that it just dies
09:06 kados I'd be fine with it just warning and mangling a single character in that record
09:07 thd kados: maybe the issue for that record could be an em dash if "440 0 $a --For dummies", had an em dash.  However it seems to have two hyphens.
09:08 thd kados: That is the second captured record.  The second captured record had no problem for me.
09:09 slef kados: well, you're asserting that it's utf8 when it isn't. Could you just open() it and read it in and *then* test it?
09:09 kados slef: whether I open as utf-8 or not it dies with the same error
09:10 kados slef: I just tried 'raw' with the same results
09:10 slef kados: sounds like something is ignoring you. Can you publish script and test data?
09:10 kados yep
09:11 slef I'll take a look on the ramfs here
09:12 kados http://kados.org/afognak2koha.pl
09:12 kados http://kados.org/alaska_mrc_extra_val.csv
09:13 thd s/second captured/first captured/
09:13 kados slef: I typically run it like this:
09:13 kados ./afognak2koha.pl alaska_mrc_extra_val.csv all.mrc alldump.txt
09:13 thd kados: you did not say last night that you had problems with the first captured record.
09:13 kados where the 'all.mrc' is the output
09:13 kados thd: sorry, it's not the first record
09:14 thd kados: which record is it for you?
09:14 kados thd: it's number 170 or something
09:14 kados 171 actually
09:14 kados in this version of the script I've got the whole operation wrapped in 'eval'
09:15 kados records 170 and 308 throw errors
09:15 kados in eval
09:15 kados the rest seem to go in ok
09:15 kados but then when I try to bulkmarcimport
09:15 kados rather than 479 records
09:15 kados I only get 398
09:17 thd kados: are you certain about the title?
09:17 kados thd: no, I was incorrect about that record
09:17 kados thd: sorry about that
09:17 pierrick kados, zebra plugin is working on my 2.2 :-)
09:17 kados pierrick: great!
09:17 slef kados: ok, ready for an annoying thing?
09:17 kados slef: sure
09:17 slef kados: the data reading part works OK here.
09:18 kados slef: meaning you get all the way through the file?
09:18 kados slef: that's probably because of the eval
09:18 kados maybe not though
09:18 kados hmmm
09:18 slef no, I commented all the MARC stuff as the ramfs box hasn't got MARC::* installed
09:18 kados ahh
09:18 slef or at least not MARC/File/XML
09:18 kados hmm
09:18 kados I think i was wrong about that reading problem
09:19 kados it seems to be working now
09:19 kados grrr
09:20 slef I think you need to test and encode before
09:20 slef $record = MARC::File::USMARC->decode($marcrecord); # or warn "not this record\n";
09:20 kados slef: if you comment out the first eval
09:20 slef as you say
09:20 kados record 171 throws:
09:20 slef MARC::Charset->assume_unicode(1);
09:20 kados utf8 "\xEC" does not map to Unicode
09:20 kados yea, but I've tried with and without that lie
09:20 kados line
09:20 kados same end result
09:21 kados slef: so line 171 has a non-mapping character in it
09:21 slef replace the eval with
09:21 kados utf8 "\xEC" does not map to Unicode at /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.4/Encode.pm line 167, <INFILE> line 171.
09:21 slef if (decode_utf8($marcrecord))
09:22 slef may need to use Encode 'decode_utf8'; too - I forget.
09:22 kados k
09:22 slef if that still works, I'll write something
09:24 kados utf8 "\xEC" does not map to Unicode at /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.4/Encode.pm line 167, <INFILE> line 171.
09:24 kados I did:
09:24 kados if (Encode::decode_utf8($marcrecord)) {
09:25 kados at one point I tried
09:25 kados use Encode qw /WARN_ON_ERR/
09:25 kados slef: unfortunately, the cpan version of MARC::* don't support unicode
09:25 kados slef: to work with unicode with MARC::* you need to grab the sourceforge versions
09:26 kados slef: http://www.kohadocs.org/Instal[…]Debian_sarge.html
09:26 kados slef: cvs listed there
09:27 slef this installation sucks atm
09:28 kados no kidding
09:28 pierrick kados, could you add the instruction "run # zebrasrv localhost:2100/kohaplugin" in your documentation ?
09:28 kados pierrick: it's not there?
09:28 slef uh, isn't there a tarball of marcpm?
09:29 kados pierrick: I'll tell stephen to add it
09:29 kados slef: yea, on the sourceforge page you can nab it
09:30 slef bah, I'm going to have to leave this and get back to work
09:30 kados k ... thanks :-)
09:32 slef what's the current state of koha support modules debian packages?
09:33 kados completely unmaintained to my knowledge
09:34 slef libyaz-dev seems to be there
09:34 kados yea, but libyaz-dev what version?
09:34 slef I'd upload libperl-marc-* if someone has time to build them, or you can wait for me to remember how perl debs work.
09:35 slef libyaz-dev 2.1.8
09:35 slef what do we need?
09:35 kados the very latest :-)
09:35 pierrick 2.1.16
09:35 slef can you add the versions needed to http://www.kohadocs.org/Instal[…]Debian_sarge.html please?
09:35 kados yep
09:36 kados well, it keeps changing
09:36 kados on like a weekly basis
09:36 kados esp with all the work being done on MARC::*
09:36 pierrick kados, the latest version of zebra available on indexdata site is 1.3.34
09:36 slef can you add them to koha/Makefile.PL in CVS instead then, please?
09:36 slef it really would help me get the installer working
09:36 kados I don't have time to track everything down
09:36 kados pierrick: could you do it?
09:37 pierrick OK
09:37 kados thx
09:37 kados hi paul
09:37 kados paul: still aiming for the 18th for release date?
09:38 slef could I just set everything to today's versions?
09:38 paul kados : no, of course.
09:38 kados slef: yep
09:38 slef as in, does it work today? ;-)
09:38 kados paul: good :-0 I was beginning to worry :-)
09:38 kados slef: well, not quite
09:38 paul as there are still some major bugs.
09:38 kados slef: we still have major encoding troubles
09:38 kados slef: similar but different to the ones we discussed today
09:38 slef how about 2.4? what libyaz does that need?
09:39 kados slef: depends on if you use the zebra plugin or not
09:39 pierrick standard 2.4 doesn't need zebra
09:39 kados slef: if you use zebra, it needs the very latest
09:39 slef standard 2.4
09:39 kados slef: otherwise, it doesn't need the very latest
09:39 kados pierrick: but it does need yaz
09:39 pierrick oups
09:39 kados slef: but 2.4 does require very latest MARC::*
09:40 kados slef: and a MARC::File::XML that hasn't been written yet :-)
09:41 kados what's unstable?
09:41 pierrick MARC::*
09:41 kados how so?
09:41 pierrick using the HEAD CVS is dangerous
09:41 pierrick kados, it seems we have no choice if we want zebra working
09:41 kados right, but MARC::* isn't like Koha, their HEAD almost always works
09:42 pierrick so my sentence is useless, just to say I think "we are playing with fire"
09:42 kados yea
09:43 paul kados: a quick question about openCataloger
09:43 pierrick so, do I add something to Makefile.PL? (on rel_2_2)
09:44 kados paul: sure
09:44 paul ToinS is writing a document to explain what he will work on, and how.
09:44 paul he seems confident with XUL now !
09:44 kados great!
09:44 paul do we create a openCat project on savannah ?
09:45 paul maybe it could be a good idea to play with subvestion with openCat ?
09:45 kados paul: sure
09:45 paul x2 ?
09:45 kados yep
09:46 kados I'll warn you that savannah takes forever to register a project
09:46 kados I tried to register openncip there
09:46 kados eventually I gave up and went to sourceforge
09:46 kados a month later they accepted openncip
09:46 paul ok, then maybe another OSS platform ?
09:46 kados but requested I change the name to freencip :-)
09:46 kados the nerv!
09:46 kados I'm ok with whatever
09:47 kados you can decide
09:48 kados paul: did you see my mention of a bug in syncing between koha tables and marc tables?
09:48 pierrick it took less than a day to register PEM on gna.org
09:48 thd kados: freedom is better than openness any day
09:48 kados paul: on koha-devel
09:48 paul kados: not yet
09:49 kados paul: it seems that Koha never deletes old holdings entries from marc_word
09:49 kados paul: I will file a bug report and mark it as blocker
09:50 kados paul: email was: Apr 12 Joshua Ferraro  (  23) [Koha-devel] Bug in MARC sync in rel_2_2
09:51 kados bug report created
10:13 pierrick kados, zebra has worked but I should not have tried to solve the encoding problems... nothing work anymore
10:14 slef never mind hosting services, you have your own webspace, you have git/cogito, host it yourself
10:38 kados pierrick: could you explain?
10:41 pierrick kados, it seem I can't update my zebra database after recreation
10:41 kados recreation?
10:41 pierrick drop/create
10:42 pierrick I had encoding problem in what was displayed
10:42 kados drop doesn't work in zebra
10:42 kados you have to go:
10:42 kados zebraidx init
10:42 kados which deletes everything
10:43 pierrick OK, in fact my problem seems to be my export
10:44 kados ahh
10:44 pierrick I've converted my marc_subfield_table to utf8 and now my export is very small
10:45 pierrick (it was 6MB before and now it's 0.2MB)
10:45 kados that can't be good
10:47 pierrick should I use export.pl in 2.2 or HEAD ?
10:52 pierrick wait... I made a mistake in the utf8 conversion procedure
10:54 kados pierrick: export.pl in 2.2 I think
10:54 pierrick no, I reversed and my export is still 0.2MB :-/ I really don't understand all this thing :-/
10:55 kados weird
10:55 kados pierrick: did you do 'select count(*) from biblio'
10:55 kados before and after?
10:55 pierrick what is a normal weight for a isoXXX export ?
10:55 pierrick I didn't
10:56 pierrick did the export deleted my biblio ????
10:56 kados no, it shouldn't
10:56 kados it just exports it :-)
10:56 kados I mean do the select count(*) before converting to utf8
10:56 kados but that doesn't make sense
10:56 kados sorry :-)
10:56 pierrick no that doesn't
10:57 pierrick if it did, we would have a big problem for Koha 3.0 conversion to utf8
10:58 pierrick I have 10K biblio
10:59 pierrick kados, how do I "select count(*) from zebra" ?
10:59 kados not sure
10:59 kados maybe ask koha-zebra?
11:00 kados I'm interested too :-)
11:00 paul iirc, I asked indexdata ml, and got an answer.
11:00 paul it was something strange & long
11:02 paul jan,9th
11:02 paul Paul POULAIN wrote:
11:02 paul > Hi,
11:02 paul >
11:02 paul > Is there a tool to have some infos on a zebra DB.
11:02 paul > something like the number of record in the DB, and other related infos ?
11:02 paul You can get some info like that out of Zebra by searching the Explain database... Using the YAZ client:
11:02 paul % yaz-client host:port/IR-Explain-1
11:02 paul Z> find @attr exp1 1=1 databaseInfo
11:02 paul Z> form xml
11:02 paul Z> show 1
11:02 paul etc.
11:02 paul The XML representation of Explain records is private to Zebra, but much easier to handle than the more standard alternatives.
11:02 paul You can retrieve information about a specific database name like this:
11:02 paul Z> f @and @attr exp1 1=1 databaseInfo @attr exp1 1=3 myDatabaseName
11:02 paul The contents should be self-explanatory.
11:02 paul You can also ask for targetInfo, AttributeSetInfo (per database, as before), and possibly other things..
11:02 paul (my question & sebastian hammer answer)
11:02 kados cool
11:03 paul a phpYazAdmin would be something useful ;-)
11:03 kados I get:
11:03 kados Sent presentRequest (1+1).
11:03 kados Records: 1
11:03 kados [IR-Explain-1]Record type: XML
11:03 kados <explain><databaseInfo>DatabaseInfo
11:04 kados <commonInfo><dateAdded>20060401200734</dat​eAdded><dateChanged>20060402182248</dateCh​anged><languageCode>EN</languageCode></com​monInfo><accessInfo><unitSystems><string>ISO</string></unitSystems><attributeSetIds><oi​d>1.2.840.10003.3.5</oid><oid>1.2.840.10003​.3.1</oid></attributeSetIds></accessInfo><n​ame>kohaplugin</name><userFee>0</userFee><a​vailable>1</available><recordCount><recordC​ountActual>148636</recordCountActual></reco​rdCount><zebraInfo><recordBytes>133463477</
11:04 kados which looks at least in the 'ballpark' :-)
11:04 kados but it would be very interesting to do
11:04 kados select count(*) from biblio;
11:04 kados then install zebra plugin
11:04 kados then do the above
11:04 kados and compaare
11:05 pierrick I'm leaving office now, I'll continue my headache on zebra on tuesday :-)
11:05 kados pierrick: have a great weekend :-)
11:06 kados paul: about encoding probs
11:06 kados paul: (before you leave)
11:06 kados paul: I'll give you an update
11:06 kados what I think is happening
11:06 kados is that Perl is handing the XML parser
11:07 kados /Perl/ thinks is utf-8.  In other words, perl is mangling the data going into the parser, possibly turning it into valid, correct UTF8, but the parser has been told that this is /not/ in fact UTF8, but ISO
11:07 kados so I need  need to tell Perl that the data in the $xml variable /is not utf8/
11:07 kados but I"m not sure how to do this yet
11:09 paul perldoc Encode don't give you a hint here ?
11:09 kados I'll check
11:10 kados but we want to avoid Encode completely I think
11:27 paul kados: do we call our project OpenCat, OpenCataloger or OpenCataloguer ?
11:28 kados paul: is OpenCat taken?
11:28 paul I don't think so
11:28 kados paul: ok, lets use it then
11:28 kados paul: wait
11:29 kados paul: opencat.org is taken
11:29 paul opencat seems to be something for google
11:29 kados paul: whereas I own opencataloger.org/com
11:29 paul ok, so let's start with opencataloger then
11:29 kados paul: sounds good
11:31 paul ok, opencataloger registered at gna.org
11:31 paul waiting for confirmation
11:31 kados great!
11:34 kados paul: so re: encoding
11:35 kados paul: do we agree that Koha will support handling MARC-8, iso-8859, utf-8
11:35 kados it will only allow storage of utf-8 and iso-8859
11:35 kados and will not permit mixed encoding
11:35 kados ie, if 8859-1, only 8859-1
11:36 kados if utf?
11:36 kados s /if utfU//
11:37 paul yes.
11:37 paul except it's iso8859-15 and not -1
11:37 paul but the only diff is the €
11:38 kados ahh, well that would explain something
11:38 kados maybe it already works perfectly
11:38 kados I thought it was 8859-1
11:38 paul 8859-1 has been transformed to -15 when EU switches to €
11:38 kados could you try latest rel_2_2 marc edits of existing data in emn fo r instance?
11:39 paul but the only diff between them is the € symbol
11:39 kados after changing to 8859-15 in TemplateEncoding var?
11:39 paul yes, but not for instance, as I must leave now (7PM soon)
11:43 paul bye bye world
11:44 kados mye paul
11:44 kados bye even :-)

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