Time Nick Message
11:44 kados bye even :-)
11:44 kados mye paul
11:43 paul bye bye world
11:39 paul yes, but not for instance, as I must leave now (7PM soon)
11:39 kados after changing to 8859-15 in TemplateEncoding var?
11:39 paul but the only diff between them is the ¤ symbol
11:38 kados could you try latest rel_2_2 marc edits of existing data in emn fo r instance?
11:38 paul 8859-1 has been transformed to -15 when EU switches to ¤
11:38 kados I thought it was 8859-1
11:38 kados maybe it already works perfectly
11:38 kados ahh, well that would explain something
11:37 paul but the only diff is the ¤
11:37 paul except it's iso8859-15 and not -1
11:37 paul yes.
11:36 kados s /if utfU//
11:36 kados if utf?
11:35 kados ie, if 8859-1, only 8859-1
11:35 kados and will not permit mixed encoding
11:35 kados it will only allow storage of utf-8 and iso-8859
11:35 kados paul: do we agree that Koha will support handling MARC-8, iso-8859, utf-8
11:34 kados paul: so re: encoding
11:31 kados great!
11:31 paul waiting for confirmation
11:31 paul ok, opencataloger registered at gna.org
11:29 kados paul: sounds good
11:29 paul ok, so let's start with opencataloger then
11:29 kados paul: whereas I own opencataloger.org/com
11:29 paul opencat seems to be something for google
11:29 kados paul: opencat.org is taken
11:28 kados paul: wait
11:28 kados paul: ok, lets use it then
11:28 paul I don't think so
11:28 kados paul: is OpenCat taken?
11:27 paul kados: do we call our project OpenCat, OpenCataloger or OpenCataloguer ?
11:10 kados but we want to avoid Encode completely I think
11:09 kados I'll check
11:09 paul perldoc Encode don't give you a hint here ?
11:07 kados but I"m not sure how to do this yet
11:07 kados so I need need to tell Perl that the data in the $xml variable /is not utf8/
11:07 kados /Perl/ thinks is utf-8. In other words, perl is mangling the data going into the parser, possibly turning it into valid, correct UTF8, but the parser has been told that this is /not/ in fact UTF8, but ISO
11:06 kados is that Perl is handing the XML parser
11:06 kados what I think is happening
11:06 kados paul: I'll give you an update
11:06 kados paul: (before you leave)
11:06 kados paul: about encoding probs
11:05 kados pierrick: have a great weekend :-)
11:05 pierrick I'm leaving office now, I'll continue my headache on zebra on tuesday :-)
11:04 kados and compaare
11:04 kados then do the above
11:04 kados then install zebra plugin
11:04 kados select count(*) from biblio;
11:04 kados but it would be very interesting to do
11:04 kados which looks at least in the 'ballpark' :-)
11:04 kados <commonInfo><dateAdded>20060401200734</dateAdded><dateChanged>20060402182248</dateChanged><languageCode>EN</languageCode></commonInfo><accessInfo><unitSystems><string>ISO</string></unitSystems><attributeSetIds><oid>1.2.840.10003.3.5</oid><oid>1.2.840.10003.3.1</oid></attributeSetIds></accessInfo><name>kohaplugin</name><userFee>0</userFee><available>1</available><recordCount><recordCountActual>148636</recordCountActual></recordCount><zebraInfo><recordBytes>133463477</
11:03 kados <explain><databaseInfo>DatabaseInfo
11:03 kados [IR-Explain-1]Record type: XML
11:03 kados Records: 1
11:03 kados Sent presentRequest (1+1).
11:03 kados I get:
11:03 paul a phpYazAdmin would be something useful ;-)
11:02 kados cool
11:02 paul (my question & sebastian hammer answer)
11:02 paul You can also ask for targetInfo, AttributeSetInfo (per database, as before), and possibly other things..
11:02 paul The contents should be self-explanatory.
11:02 paul Z> f @and @attr exp1 1=1 databaseInfo @attr exp1 1=3 myDatabaseName
11:02 paul You can retrieve information about a specific database name like this:
11:02 paul The XML representation of Explain records is private to Zebra, but much easier to handle than the more standard alternatives.
11:02 paul etc.
11:02 paul Z> show 1
11:02 paul Z> form xml
11:02 paul Z> find @attr exp1 1=1 databaseInfo
11:02 paul % yaz-client host:port/IR-Explain-1
11:02 paul You can get some info like that out of Zebra by searching the Explain database... Using the YAZ client:
11:02 paul > something like the number of record in the DB, and other related infos ?
11:02 paul > Is there a tool to have some infos on a zebra DB.
11:02 paul >
11:02 paul > Hi,
11:02 paul Paul POULAIN wrote:
11:02 paul jan,9th
11:00 paul it was something strange & long
11:00 paul iirc, I asked indexdata ml, and got an answer.
11:00 kados I'm interested too :-)
10:59 kados maybe ask koha-zebra?
10:59 kados not sure
10:59 pierrick kados, how do I "select count(*) from zebra" ?
10:58 pierrick I have 10K biblio
10:57 pierrick if it did, we would have a big problem for Koha 3.0 conversion to utf8
10:56 pierrick no that doesn't
10:56 kados sorry :-)
10:56 kados but that doesn't make sense
10:56 kados I mean do the select count(*) before converting to utf8
10:56 kados it just exports it :-)
10:56 kados no, it shouldn't
10:56 pierrick did the export deleted my biblio ????
10:55 pierrick I didn't
10:55 pierrick what is a normal weight for a isoXXX export ?
10:55 kados before and after?
10:55 kados pierrick: did you do 'select count(*) from biblio'
10:55 kados weird
10:54 pierrick no, I reversed and my export is still 0.2MB :-/ I really don't understand all this thing :-/
10:54 kados pierrick: export.pl in 2.2 I think
10:52 pierrick wait... I made a mistake in the utf8 conversion procedure
10:47 pierrick should I use export.pl in 2.2 or HEAD ?
10:45 kados that can't be good
10:45 pierrick (it was 6MB before and now it's 0.2MB)
10:44 pierrick I've converted my marc_subfield_table to utf8 and now my export is very small
10:44 kados ahh
10:43 pierrick OK, in fact my problem seems to be my export
10:42 kados which deletes everything
10:42 kados zebraidx init
10:42 kados you have to go:
10:42 kados drop doesn't work in zebra
10:42 pierrick I had encoding problem in what was displayed
10:41 pierrick drop/create
10:41 kados recreation?
10:41 pierrick kados, it seem I can't update my zebra database after recreation
10:38 kados pierrick: could you explain?
10:14 slef never mind hosting services, you have your own webspace, you have git/cogito, host it yourself
10:13 pierrick kados, zebra has worked but I should not have tried to solve the encoding problems... nothing work anymore
09:51 kados bug report created
09:50 kados paul: email was: Apr 12 Joshua Ferraro ( 23) [Koha-devel] Bug in MARC sync in rel_2_2
09:49 kados paul: I will file a bug report and mark it as blocker
09:49 kados paul: it seems that Koha never deletes old holdings entries from marc_word
09:48 paul kados: not yet
09:48 kados paul: on koha-devel
09:48 thd kados: freedom is better than openness any day
09:48 pierrick it took less than a day to register PEM on gna.org
09:48 kados paul: did you see my mention of a bug in syncing between koha tables and marc tables?
09:47 kados you can decide
09:46 kados I'm ok with whatever
09:46 kados the nerv!
09:46 kados but requested I change the name to freencip :-)
09:46 paul ok, then maybe another OSS platform ?
09:46 kados a month later they accepted openncip
09:46 kados eventually I gave up and went to sourceforge
09:46 kados I tried to register openncip there
09:46 kados I'll warn you that savannah takes forever to register a project
09:45 kados yep
09:45 paul x2 ?
09:45 kados paul: sure
09:45 paul maybe it could be a good idea to play with subvestion with openCat ?
09:44 paul do we create a openCat project on savannah ?
09:44 kados great!
09:44 paul he seems confident with XUL now !
09:44 paul ToinS is writing a document to explain what he will work on, and how.
09:44 kados paul: sure
09:43 pierrick so, do I add something to Makefile.PL? (on rel_2_2)
09:43 paul kados: a quick question about openCataloger
09:42 kados yea
09:42 pierrick so my sentence is useless, just to say I think "we are playing with fire"
09:41 kados right, but MARC::* isn't like Koha, their HEAD almost always works
09:41 pierrick kados, it seems we have no choice if we want zebra working
09:41 pierrick using the HEAD CVS is dangerous
09:41 kados how so?
09:41 pierrick MARC::*
09:41 kados what's unstable?
09:40 kados slef: and a MARC::File::XML that hasn't been written yet :-)
09:39 kados slef: but 2.4 does require very latest MARC::*
09:39 pierrick oups
09:39 kados pierrick: but it does need yaz
09:39 kados slef: otherwise, it doesn't need the very latest
09:39 slef standard 2.4
09:39 kados slef: if you use zebra, it needs the very latest
09:39 pierrick standard 2.4 doesn't need zebra
09:39 kados slef: depends on if you use the zebra plugin or not
09:38 slef how about 2.4? what libyaz does that need?
09:38 kados slef: similar but different to the ones we discussed today
09:38 kados slef: we still have major encoding troubles
09:38 paul as there are still some major bugs.
09:38 kados slef: well, not quite
09:38 kados paul: good :-0 I was beginning to worry :-)
09:38 slef as in, does it work today? ;-)
09:38 kados slef: yep
09:38 paul kados : no, of course.
09:38 slef could I just set everything to today's versions?
09:37 kados paul: still aiming for the 18th for release date?
09:37 kados hi paul
09:37 kados thx
09:37 pierrick OK
09:36 kados pierrick: could you do it?
09:36 kados I don't have time to track everything down
09:36 slef it really would help me get the installer working
09:36 slef can you add them to koha/Makefile.PL in CVS instead then, please?
09:36 pierrick kados, the latest version of zebra available on indexdata site is 1.3.34
09:36 kados esp with all the work being done on MARC::*
09:36 kados on like a weekly basis
09:36 kados well, it keeps changing
09:35 kados yep
09:35 slef can you add the versions needed to http://www.kohadocs.org/Installing_Koha_on_Debian_sarge.html please?
09:35 pierrick 2.1.16
09:35 kados the very latest :-)
09:35 slef what do we need?
09:35 slef libyaz-dev 2.1.8
09:34 slef I'd upload libperl-marc-* if someone has time to build them, or you can wait for me to remember how perl debs work.
09:34 kados yea, but libyaz-dev what version?
09:34 slef libyaz-dev seems to be there
09:33 kados completely unmaintained to my knowledge
09:32 slef what's the current state of koha support modules debian packages?
09:30 kados k ... thanks :-)
09:30 slef bah, I'm going to have to leave this and get back to work
09:29 kados slef: yea, on the sourceforge page you can nab it
09:29 kados pierrick: I'll tell stephen to add it
09:28 slef uh, isn't there a tarball of marcpm?
09:28 kados pierrick: it's not there?
09:28 pierrick kados, could you add the instruction "run # zebrasrv localhost:2100/kohaplugin" in your documentation ?
09:28 kados no kidding
09:27 slef this installation sucks atm
09:26 kados slef: cvs listed there
09:26 kados slef: http://www.kohadocs.org/Installing_Koha_on_Debian_sarge.html
09:25 kados slef: to work with unicode with MARC::* you need to grab the sourceforge versions
09:25 kados slef: unfortunately, the cpan version of MARC::* don't support unicode
09:25 kados use Encode qw /WARN_ON_ERR/
09:25 kados at one point I tried
09:24 kados if (Encode::decode_utf8($marcrecord)) {
09:24 kados I did:
09:24 kados utf8 "\xEC" does not map to Unicode at /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.4/Encode.pm line 167, <INFILE> line 171.
09:22 slef if that still works, I'll write something
09:22 kados k
09:22 slef may need to use Encode 'decode_utf8'; too - I forget.
09:21 slef if (decode_utf8($marcrecord))
09:21 kados utf8 "\xEC" does not map to Unicode at /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.4/Encode.pm line 167, <INFILE> line 171.
09:21 slef replace the eval with
09:21 kados slef: so line 171 has a non-mapping character in it
09:20 kados same end result
09:20 kados line
09:20 kados yea, but I've tried with and without that lie
09:20 kados utf8 "\xEC" does not map to Unicode
09:20 slef MARC::Charset->assume_unicode(1);
09:20 kados record 171 throws:
09:20 slef as you say
09:20 kados slef: if you comment out the first eval
09:20 slef $record = MARC::File::USMARC->decode($marcrecord); # or warn "not this record\n";
09:20 slef I think you need to test and encode before
09:19 kados grrr
09:19 kados it seems to be working now
09:18 kados I think i was wrong about that reading problem
09:18 kados hmm
09:18 slef or at least not MARC/File/XML
09:18 kados ahh
09:18 slef no, I commented all the MARC stuff as the ramfs box hasn't got MARC::* installed
09:18 kados hmmm
09:18 kados maybe not though
09:18 kados slef: that's probably because of the eval
09:18 kados slef: meaning you get all the way through the file?
09:17 slef kados: the data reading part works OK here.
09:17 kados slef: sure
09:17 slef kados: ok, ready for an annoying thing?
09:17 kados pierrick: great!
09:17 pierrick kados, zebra plugin is working on my 2.2 :-)
09:17 kados thd: sorry about that
09:17 kados thd: no, I was incorrect about that record
09:17 thd kados: are you certain about the title?
09:15 kados I only get 398
09:15 kados rather than 479 records
09:15 kados but then when I try to bulkmarcimport
09:15 kados the rest seem to go in ok
09:15 kados in eval
09:15 kados records 170 and 308 throw errors
09:14 kados in this version of the script I've got the whole operation wrapped in 'eval'
09:14 kados 171 actually
09:14 kados thd: it's number 170 or something
09:14 thd kados: which record is it for you?
09:13 kados thd: sorry, it's not the first record
09:13 kados where the 'all.mrc' is the output
09:13 thd kados: you did not say last night that you had problems with the first captured record.
09:13 kados ./afognak2koha.pl alaska_mrc_extra_val.csv all.mrc alldump.txt
09:13 kados slef: I typically run it like this:
09:13 thd s/second captured/first captured/
09:12 kados http://kados.org/alaska_mrc_extra_val.csv
09:12 kados http://kados.org/afognak2koha.pl
09:11 slef I'll take a look on the ramfs here
09:10 kados yep
09:10 slef kados: sounds like something is ignoring you. Can you publish script and test data?
09:10 kados slef: I just tried 'raw' with the same results
09:09 kados slef: whether I open as utf-8 or not it dies with the same error
09:09 slef kados: well, you're asserting that it's utf8 when it isn't. Could you just open() it and read it in and *then* test it?
09:08 thd kados: That is the second captured record. The second captured record had no problem for me.
09:07 thd kados: maybe the issue for that record could be an em dash if "440 0 $a --For dummies", had an em dash. However it seems to have two hyphens.
09:06 kados I'd be fine with it just warning and mangling a single character in that record
09:06 kados the thing that gets my goat is that it just dies
09:04 slef hrm, I guess you get to play "guess the encoding" if this is a one-off
09:02 kados yea, but I could probably do a re-read
09:02 kados still dies on the first record
09:02 slef Have you read man perlunicode?
09:02 kados I'll try that
09:01 slef you can try <:raw instead, but you may end up outputting gibberish if you can't fix the encoding
09:01 kados ../alaska_mrc.mrc: data
09:01 kados file ../alaska_mrc.mrc #
09:01 kados k
09:01 slef file yourbatchfile # on the command line
09:00 kados hmmm ... not sure how to do that
09:00 slef 8859-which? Can file figure it out?
09:00 kados slef: with a few hundred wide chars thrown in
08:59 kados slef: but I'm assuming either mostly 8859 or marc-8
08:59 kados slef: it seems to be a combo of encodings :-)
08:59 kados slef: it's one of the problems with a batch file of marc records - they can lie about their encoding ... claiming to be marc-8 but actually some other encoding
08:59 slef what encoding is $infile?
08:58 kados slef: the reason is because there are some wide chars in the file
08:58 kados slef: either way I get the error
08:58 slef kados: why are you trying to open a non-utf8 $infile with :utf8?
08:56 kados thd: I have no idea, there must be something going on somewhere in that yaz or php stuff
08:56 thd kados: well if that is the record how could there be any non-ASCII characters?
08:56 kados open(INFILE, "<:utf8",$infile);
08:56 kados where INFILE is:
08:55 kados slef: while (my $line = <INFILE>) {
08:55 slef what's afognak2koha.pl line 25 ?
08:55 kados thd: but line 1 is : InDesign CS2 for dummies
08:54 kados it's possible
08:54 thd kados: what about the possibility that the MARC::Charset mapping or Unicode is incomplete for native Alaskan languages?
08:53 kados slef: is there any way to get Encode to just warn rather than die on that error?
08:53 kados slef: utf8 "\xEB" does not map to Unicode at ./afognak2koha.pl line 25, <INFILE> line 1.
08:53 kados slef: you've dealt with encoding issues in perl, right?
08:52 kados hey slef
08:52 kados thd: but sourceforge version has some untested functions that need to be tested before being put in CPAN
08:52 kados thd: yes, I do have access to MARC::File::XML finally
08:51 thd kados: I thought that you were updating CPAN to avoid this problem
08:51 kados thd: involving some people at follett
08:51 kados thd: CPAN: it's a long story
08:51 thd kados: Why is CPAN behind?
08:50 thd kados: I cannot import any record at the moment so I cannot determine encoding problems even for my old ASCII only records :0
08:49 thd kados: I think the only encoding problems were some native Alaskan names.
08:48 kados (out of curiosity)
08:48 kados thd: do those MARC records have the same encoding probs as the first batch?
08:46 thd s/615/no hits from 615/
08:46 thd kados: I have succeeded slowly in capturing more MARC records by gradually adding targets and searching the correct form of serial titles. I am a little less than half way through the 615 records.
08:41 kados thd: the CPAN versions aren't up to date
08:41 kados thd: as with MARC::Charset
08:41 kados thd: MARC::Record needs to be installed from Sourceforge
08:40 thd kados: MARC::Charset and MARC::Record are up to date
08:40 kados thd: my 'installing on debian' document has details
08:40 kados thd: check kohadocs.org for instructions on installing the latest sourceforge versions
08:40 kados thd: did you install MARC::Charset?
08:39 thd kados: yes I was using the CPAN version
08:39 kados thd: the cpan version has a make test error?
08:38 kados thd: you must use the sourceforge version of MARC::File::XML
08:38 kados pierrick: no, no kohaplugin user
08:38 thd kados: rel_2_2 is now so broken for me that I cannot import even one record :(
08:37 thd kados: I last updated MARC::XML a few weeks ago but the current CPAN version has a make test error.
08:34 thd kados: what causes this error from bulkmarcimport.pl on any MARC record: Can't locate object method "as_xml" via package "MARC::Record" ?
08:31 pierrick kados, you created a "kohaplugin" user on your system?
08:30 pierrick thx
08:30 pierrick OK
08:30 kados pierrick: no they can be the same
08:29 pierrick :-/
08:29 kados lemme look quickly
08:29 kados I think so
08:29 pierrick (should there be differences?)
08:29 kados well, yes
08:29 pierrick are there difference between the two files?
08:26 kados pierrick: yep :-)
08:26 pierrick should I suppose unimarc zebra configuration file is not up to date at all?
08:25 pierrick 65 ./usmarc/zebra.cfg
08:25 pierrick 31 ./unimarc/zebra.cfg
08:25 pierrick pierrick@plegall:~/dev/koha/head/misc/zebra$ wc -l ./unimarc/zebra.cfg ./usmarc/zebra.cfg
08:25 kados paul_away: are you here?
08:18 kados thx
08:18 pierrick done
08:16 kados yep
08:16 pierrick if you want
08:16 pierrick I you want
08:16 kados could you commit it to rel_2_2?
08:16 kados right
08:16 kados hmmm
08:15 pierrick (and it should not be, I suppose)
08:15 pierrick mis/missing090field.pl is not in rel_2_2 but in HEAD
08:15 kados cool
08:15 pierrick I'm testing the zebra plugin (still installing it)
08:14 kados pierrick: am now
07:50 pierrick kados, are you around?
06:34 slef thd++
05:52 thd slef: at least the FSF mail system is not any worse than I have experienced on Sourceforge. All Koha devel messages are at least appearing in the log without loss eventually :)
05:48 thd slef: well yes that was a point of significant discussion and a special presentation at the FSF members meeting.
05:44 slef http://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/lists
05:42 thd pierrick: FSF is buying new servers for the mail system and improving the routing so the mail queue may not be an endless disc thrashing session in a few months. They know the delay of the mail queue is a very important issue.
05:42 slef thd: je rigole
05:40 pierrick but I had hoped you wouldn't answer
05:40 thd slef: I understand what that would mean but that leaves me even more uncertain of your message.
05:40 pierrick didn't received yet
05:39 slef yep
05:39 pierrick slef, you answered to my mail about forum Vs mailing-list?
05:38 slef thd: it's obtaining possession of the football by kicking the player in the back of the leg
05:37 thd pierrick: the term may generally mean to impolitely kick another in the trousers for obtaining attention severely.
05:36 thd pierrick: Savannah hardware is not fast enough for me to see exactly what slef means yet.
05:34 pierrick slef, what does "puts the boot" means?
05:31 thd what is this error: Can't locate object method "as_xml" via package "MARC::Record" ?
05:29 thd pierrick: and volume 2 http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2765408246
05:29 slef ;-)
05:24 thd pierrick: http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2765405514
05:24 thd pierrick: the Chan book is most likely excellent but it may be helpful to consult also a book on French UNIMARC practise.
05:16 pierrick thanks a lot thd, I don't need a translation, the majority of my technical books are in english
05:14 thd pierrick: I do not know what might be a French equivalent, but would be pleased to know
05:12 thd pierrick: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0070105065
05:10 thd pierrick: There is a generally well respected book by Chan, although, I unfortunately do not have a copy.
04:57 thd pierrick: you should look at a library science textbook to understand the concepts behind what goes into MARC well.
04:56 thd s/paradym/paradym/
04:55 thd pierrick: full marks!! see my brief paragraphs about the alternative to the search paridym at http://www.agogme.com
04:53 pierrick thd, not very far. I think I understand the tag/subfields structure. I don't bind description to each tag/subfield depending on the MARC flavour
04:52 pierrick after this discussion, I would answer Genji that I would like to have other navigation mode in the OPAC, not only the search mode
04:51 thd pierrick: How is your study of MARC going?
04:51 thd pierrick: I would like to see such a feature implemented in a MARC compliant manner even if it would inevitably lead to breaking the ISO 2709 record size barrier requiring XML.
04:49 thd s./form/from/
04:49 thd pierrick: yes there will always be the issue of the librarian needing to protect the library institution form users who may see public tagging as a forum for causing mischief :)
04:48 pierrick I know an online service blogmarks.net that let each user have public and private tags on their bookmarks
04:47 thd pierrick: I favour standard thesauri but I also like the idea of giving users freedom to contribute to the library in any way that is comfortable to the user.
04:46 pierrick thd, of course, it could mandatory that a librarian validate tags before making them public
04:45 thd pierrick: the user can have filters to protect himself from the mess potential.
04:44 thd paul: well one could have both a standard tag thesaurus and free form tagging. One need not exclude the other.
04:43 paul oups, I must leave NOW
04:43 paul in fact, i'm not sure there would be so many ppl entering tags. so having them worldwide could improve a lot their interest
04:43 pierrick paul, don't you think it would become a real mess if all libraries share their tags?
04:42 pierrick thd, PhpWebGallery
04:42 thd pierrick: what is PWG?
04:42 paul I thought such system where without any available tag list, and the user could enter what he wants.
04:41 pierrick thd, in PWG there are several mode of navigation, not only the search one.
04:41 thd pierrick: It would not need to be centralised if every library was free to add individual fields and subfields from records at any other library automatically in a distributed network.
04:41 paul pierrick: why do you want an available tag list ?
04:41 pierrick thd, my experience is 5 years of photo gallery development, and IMO managing biblio is not that different from managing photographs
04:41 paul (login test/test)
04:41 paul http://i20.bureau.paulpoulain.com/cgi-bin/koha/members/members-home.pl
04:40 paul you can check what it does at :
04:40 paul it works correctly for me, I think i've commited everything. Could someone check that an update of CVS + updater/updatedatabase make the feature working ?
04:39 pierrick paul, that would mean the set of avilable tags is centralized
04:39 paul OK guys, I've just commited many many things for borrowers improvements.
04:39 thd pierrick: that is a very important concept. Blank search forms are a very limited concept.
04:39 paul when a library from Koha network get a tag, it is send to a central server, that can distribute it to all libraries during the night.
04:38 pierrick search mode, tag mod, category mode, chronology mode, best rated, most read, etc.
04:38 paul pierrick: the best would be to have a world-wide tag system, based on ISBN
04:38 thd pierrick: I had asked hdl some time ago why that was not already a feature extension to the virtual bookshelves.
04:38 pierrick I think the current OPAC is only a search form while we could provide other navigation modes
04:37 pierrick having a navigation mode based on chronology would be interesting too
04:35 pierrick (through metadata in reality)
04:35 pierrick thd, yes. The admin of the gallery has added the tags manually
04:35 thd pierrick: such tags seem like user added subject headings.
04:35 pierrick if users can participate, it can be interesting but not mandatory
04:34 pierrick the origin is a question, but IMO the most important is the navigation
04:34 thd pierrick: yes records need as many access points and as much content as can be provided.
04:33 pierrick from users, from librarians...
04:33 pierrick I mean I don't really mind were tags come from
04:33 thd pierrick: what do you mean by why not using it?
04:33 pierrick what I mean is having this kind of navigation : http://www.modusoptimus.com/bsf/tags.php
04:32 pierrick thd, why not using it
04:32 thd pierrick: well the cataloguer can already add notes if that is what you mean by tagging.
04:31 pierrick The idea is the new navigation way it creates
04:31 pierrick but maybe having only "tagging" and not "user tagging" would be enough
04:30 pierrick thd, yes some kind of
04:30 thd pierrick: you mean user added notes fields.
04:29 pierrick thd, an example: you're connected to the OPAC, you can add some tag to a biblio
04:29 thd pierrick: I have had a few interesting ideas before you were born :)
04:29 Genji hmmm.. users tag.. as in add subjects to their own books?
04:28 pierrick "Tagging" is a very common features nowadays in applications managing items (any kind of items).
04:28 thd pierrick: How would you describe tagging biblios from users? I know hat the individual words mean but not the concept that you are attempting to describe.
04:27 pierrick I wanted to see if you already had the idea before me, and yes. But it does not seem to have been implemented
04:26 pierrick http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/koha-devel/2005-10/msg00011.html
04:26 thd paul: I hope it is even an interesting idea if you are wrong :)
04:25 Genji whats tagging biblios?
04:25 paul but if i'm right, it's an interesting idea ;-)
04:25 paul yes, I think I know what pierrick is speaking of, and i'm waiting for it's explanations.
04:25 thd paul: if you understand what is it?
04:24 paul tagging biblios is a very interesting idea, if I understand what it is ;-)
04:23 thd pierrick: what is tagging biblios from users?
04:22 thd paul: you need some special potions to keep the bugs from returning from the dead
04:22 paul ok, I missed it
04:21 pierrick paul, I've written a specific mail for BSP
04:20 paul (i should be here, with my tank, 2 fighters, 1 cruiser and at least 5 companies. I'll also get my +5 sword of the paladin and my shield of the deadbug)
04:18 paul pierrick: 1st bug squashing meeting => 18th, april, but which time ?
04:18 thd paul: that would be the most interchangeable general term for institution, company, etc.
04:17 thd paul: try organisation
04:16 thd paul: Yes that is perfect French:)
04:16 paul "collectivité"
04:16 paul because i'm afraid it's a frenchism
04:16 paul (an institution, a company...)
04:15 paul is "collectivity" a correct word so speak of an professional organisation
04:15 pierrick Genji, I have no "pet idea/bug" for the moment. Maybe I'm interested in tagging biblio from users and presenting something like a tag cloud and related tags
04:15 thd yes paul
04:15 paul thd : a quick english question
04:15 thd pierrick: So what are you specially interested in pursing in or for Koha?
04:14 pierrick thd, thank you for precision
04:14 pierrick thd, I'm back
04:09 thd pierrick: are you there?
04:08 thd pierrick: a bug in this context is something that keeps motivating you to pursue something.
04:07 thd pierrick: I think Genji was trying to ask what special idea were you interested in pursuing or implementing in Koha.
04:03 thd pierrick: It seems that Genji missed answering your English question. Pet something is favourite something, usually a personal favourite.
03:04 ToinS hello
03:00 pierrick hello Paul
03:00 paul hello all
02:57 pierrick s/englush/english
02:57 pierrick Genji, sorry, I'm not native englush speaker :-/ what do you mean "pet bug/idea"?
02:53 Genji pierrick: whats your pet bug/idea for koha?
02:47 pierrick hi Genji
02:44 Genji hiya all
01:48 Genji ok.. back again... on and off doing dishes....
01:02 thd kados: I suppose that any characters in MARC 8 would necessarily exist in Unicode. I assume MARC::Charset includes every native american language in MARC 8.
00:56 thd kados: that record is actually a bad match. OCLC does not have what the record ought to be. That goes with the unfindable shareholder guides to a native corporation.
00:39 kados yep, investigating now
00:39 thd kados: there is a similar issue for cost, purchase price.
00:33 kados thd: fixed
00:32 kados thd: fixing that now
00:27 thd kados: from that record it seems that you created 690 subfields even when the values for the 690 subfields were empty
00:27 si ack, wrong #
00:26 si http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7278397109952382318&q=tom+limoncelli&pl=true
00:26 si russ, you might find this useful
00:21 thd kados: sometimes the same record appears in the source both with and without an ISBN
00:21 kados http://library.afognak.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=26
00:21 kados thd: multiple items are now working
00:21 kados thd: right ...
00:19 thd kados: the source file had many duplicates
00:15 kados hehe
00:14 si no worries
00:14 kados thx
00:14 kados woot
00:14 si /mode #koha +o kados
00:14 si or indeed
00:13 kados go /set +o kados
00:13 kados si: you too :-)
00:13 kados si: can you oper me?
00:13 si happy easter, joshua
00:10 kados cool
00:10 kados k
00:10 kados hehe
00:10 kados the CPAN versions won't cut it
00:10 kados to the latest sourceforge versions
00:10 kados you need to upgrade MARC::Record, MARC::File::XML and MARC::Charset
00:10 kados ahh ... before that
00:09 kados look in addbiblio.pl
00:09 kados so ... once you've done that
00:09 kados (in marc21 there are only two valid encodings: marc8 and utf8)
00:09 kados (if it's unimarc that is)
00:09 kados iso-8859
00:08 kados it should probably be
00:08 kados so if you're running an old Koha
00:08 kados set that to the desired encoding
00:08 kados TemplateEncoding
00:08 kados there's a new syspref
00:08 kados and you updatedatabase
00:08 kados if you use CVS rel_2_2
00:08 kados well, it's complicated
00:07 Genji so... perl is converting the characters before the script has the chance to convert them?
00:06 kados yep
00:06 Genji special characters like accented e's etc?
00:04 kados but I haven't been successful in tracking down exactly where it's happening
00:04 kados I think it's perl's fault
00:04 kados the special characters get mangled
00:04 kados when you edit existing records
00:03 kados and you upgrade to rel_2_2
00:03 kados if you use a Koha that has iso-8859 encoding in the db
00:03 kados in rel_2_2
00:03 kados related to encoding
00:03 kados I've been struggling with a bug
00:02 kados in the form of MARC::File::XML
00:02 kados we have that already
00:02 kados not quite
00:02 kados hmmm
00:01 kados in head
00:01 kados there's plenty of work to do on zebra
00:01 kados have you tried out the new zebra plugin?
00:01 kados that's just first on my mind
00:01 kados there's other stuff
00:01 kados well ...
00:00 kados we need Koha to be able to handle any encoding we hand it
00:00 kados iso-8859-1 vs utf-8 vs marc-8, etc.
00:00 Genji utf8?
00:00 kados character encoding
00:00 kados we're currently really hurting in the encoding area
00:00 Genji hmm.... not really. what sort of encoding?
00:00 kados know much about encoding?
23:59 kados great news!
23:59 Genji kados: good enuf. Im looking at doing some koha devel... have any particular bug / feature enhancement you think I could tackle on my first day back?
23:58 kados Genji: barely :-)
23:58 Genji kados: you awake?
23:55 kados and I don't see any with more than one copy
23:51 kados thd: seems like quite a few duplicates in there
23:51 kados thd: a search on 'and' pulls up 298 of them
23:50 kados thd: http://library.afognak.org
23:50 kados thd: got 398 records in
23:39 thd kados: after moving the setting of $rawRec for saving before $rec for display, I still have the XML/parser error on the 11th record.
22:44 thd kados: koha has many loop errors in the templates at least.
22:42 thd kados: that is a loop error unless 17 is an unlucky number
22:42 kados yep
22:42 thd did it die on 17 again?
22:42 kados same error
22:42 thd and?
22:42 kados i did
22:41 thd kados: delete records 10-25 again
22:40 kados in this case, it dies on record 17 even if I delete records 10-25
22:40 thd kados: what is strange?
22:40 kados wow, this is strange
22:37 kados but it might be
22:37 kados agreed
22:37 thd and it should not be important :)
22:36 thd kados: order that the variables were set had not seemed important
22:36 thd kados: maybe I should be setting the value of $rawRec first in $rawRec = yaz_record($id[$i],$p,"raw");
22:34 kados or something
22:34 kados it might set the charset in yaz-record
22:34 kados hmmm
22:34 thd kados: I do a character conversion for display from a separate variable. Maybe a PHP bug creates an upstream problem. $rec is used for display only. $rec = yaz_record($id[$i],$p,"render; charset=marc8,utf-8");
22:15 kados I'm going to just have to manually skip the problem records
22:03 thd at least as long as the remaining records are at least one
22:01 thd kados:that sound like an excellent plan
22:00 kados thd: I'm going to try eliminating all problematic records from the write
22:00 thd :)
21:59 kados my counting is notoriously off by one :-)
21:59 kados well, give or take one :-)
21:59 kados yep
21:59 thd kados: that is the 171st record imported?
21:59 kados I was mistaken that they all imported if they were not re-encoded
21:59 kados ok, so whether or not I convert to utf-8 it crashes on number 171
21:58 thd s/the/if the/
21:58 thd kados: the content is ASCII the conversion presumably does nothing but change the indicated encoding in the leader
21:36 thd kados: are all records affected or only 15?
21:33 thd s/running/running the LWP and PHP script/
21:30 thd kados: Do you want to try running against the sample 29 records on your system?
21:28 thd kados: I think I built PHP/YAZ for PHP5 because the Debian package is only for PHP4, and rather old.
21:24 thd kados: I have YAZ version 2.1.8-4
21:20 thd yes, written directly to filehandle
21:19 kados huh ... what version of yaz are you running on that box?
21:19 kados then presumably you write that $rawRec to a filehandle?
21:18 kados huh
21:18 thd kados: raw is raw
21:18 thd kados: $rawRec = yaz_record($id[$i],$p,"raw");
21:15 kados is that a possible cause of the problem?
21:15 kados sometimes if you don't specify a binary transfer it doesn't do a binary transfer
21:15 kados so how did you acomplish the download?
21:15 thd s/there/they/
21:15 kados very strange
21:15 kados hmmm
21:14 thd kados: there were direct raw MARC so that we would not have this problem?
21:14 kados were they downloaded directly in binary marc or were they scraped off an html page?
21:13 kados they must have been re-encoded by php or something
21:13 kados is that the records weren't saved correctly
21:12 kados basically the real problem
21:12 kados utf-8 even
21:12 kados then, I tried converting everything to utf-89
21:12 kados thd: first I tried doing nothing with encoding
21:05 thd kados: so in Perl you made some character conversion?
21:04 kados thd: it dies on record 171 if I try to import from marc only
21:04 thd kados: What workaround did you use for the 11th record?
21:04 thd kados: what happens if you try to import the records from the MARC only file?
21:02 thd kados: as long as that is a well formed end of file then that is fine.
21:01 kados thd: well, there is the end of file that every marc has
21:00 thd kados: yes of course but was there any strange character just before the newline?
20:59 kados I was able to chomp() that line to remove it
20:59 kados you wouldn't have \n as the last char
20:58 kados in a true marc file
20:58 kados but I was able to correct that
20:58 kados yes that is also a problem
20:58 thd ?
20:58 thd kados: I was uncertain about how I added the newline separating the rows but do you see a problem there for . "\n"
20:58 kados and at least 15 records appear mangled
20:57 kados I can import all but 3 or so
20:57 kados so if I leave everything as marc-8
20:57 kados because of the encoding probs
20:57 kados well, I can't seem to convert the marc-8 to utf-8
20:56 thd kados: but what problem do you actually see aside from 15 records?
20:56 kados I don't even know where to begin looking for the problem
20:56 thd \kados: what is the problem except for 15 records?
20:55 kados hmmm
20:55 thd kados: I can send you the scripts and we can rerun everything form your speedy system after we find the problem.
20:55 kados how can we salvage this?
20:54 thd kados: what are the more problems?
20:54 kados hmmm
20:54 kados I don't know what to say
20:53 kados hmmm
20:53 thd yes PHP :(
20:53 kados thd: I have even more probs
20:53 thd kados: I assume that you would have the same problems if you tried importing the MARC records from the MARC records only file.
20:53 kados thd: so this is php?
20:50 thd kados: no Perl uses join for join not implode :)
20:49 kados thd: is this perl?
20:49 thd }
20:49 thd fclose($fh);
20:49 thd fwrite($fh, $extraValuesRow);
20:49 thd $fh = fopen($marcExtraValuesFile, 'a') or die("can't open file");
20:49 thd $extraValuesRow = implode("\t", $extraValues) . "\n";
20:49 thd $purchased_price, $quantity, $rawRec);
20:49 thd $l_subject, $l_subject_subdivision,
20:49 thd $publication, $pub_place, $pub_year,
20:49 thd $search_fields, $isbn, $author, $title,
20:49 thd $recQuality, $recYearMatch, $hostSpec,
20:49 thd $extraValues = array($progress, $version,
20:49 thd $extraValues[] = "";
20:49 thd fclose($fh);
20:49 thd fwrite($fh, $rawRec);
20:49 thd $fh = fopen($marcCaptureFile, 'a') or die("can't open file");
20:49 thd if (!empty($save_best) && !empty($recQuality) && $bestRec == 1) {
20:49 kados nope, I'm wrong about even that
20:47 kados thd: so that file has mixed encoding
20:47 kados thd: I think the problem with this whole thing is that you saved binary marc files with all different encodings into a file without specifying or controling the encoding
20:46 thd or rather author title which are also suspect matches
20:46 kados thd: explain to me how the records are saved in the file with the tabs
20:42 thd kados: the MARC record looks like the bad title only match for "Am salmon"
20:40 thd kados: look at the bad record more importantly entirely different record in the MARC view from the detail view for http://library.afognak.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=12
20:36 thd which would not have been 11.html because there were gaps.
20:35 thd kados: what happened to record 11?
20:34 kados I bet everything but those 15 is ok
20:34 kados 15 to be exact
20:34 kados 407 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 393 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 334 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 333 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 332 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 331 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 330 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 326 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 302 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 299 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 219 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 175 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 128 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 13 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados 12 EncodingMARC-8
20:34 kados some of the records didn't conver to to utf-8
20:34 kados maybe we only have a few encoding probs
20:33 thd kados: that is very pretty, are they all like that?
20:32 kados for instance
20:32 kados http://library.afognak.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=12
20:32 kados and we've got major encoding probs
20:31 kados must be a flaw in my script
20:31 kados hmmm, some have 0 count
20:31 thd kados: ok more is better, maybe my script miscounted.
20:31 kados http://library.afognak.org/
20:30 kados importing them into Koha now
20:30 kados I have 479 :-)
20:30 thd kados: I think there should be 456 records in the file.
20:30 kados thd: it's impossible to know where
20:30 kados thd: in several of the records
20:29 thd kados: where was the bad encoding?
20:28 kados thd: bad encoding
20:28 thd kados: what was the problem?
20:27 kados thd: 479 records in the file?
20:27 kados thd: i found a workaround finally
20:15 thd kados: raw is as raw as YAZ provided. If there are encoding problems those existed in the original record. Would Columbia University Library really inflict encoding problems on an unsuspecting world? :)
20:13 thd kados: I specifically avoided passing the raw record over LWP to avoid any possible encoding problems.
20:12 thd kados: PHP wrote to the raw records but did not alter their content except for later in the code where htmlspecialchars() is used for encoding to post the record in a form for manual record saving only after LWP directed automated saving has already happened. The htmlspecialchars() encoding is removed at the time of manual saving after parsing the post information.
20:03 thd kados: does YAZ itself have some encoding bugs?
20:01 thd kados: These records should not have encoding issues except for maybe some native Alaskan language characters which I had not noticed in any records.
20:00 Genji offline for chores
20:00 thd kados: what is the offending character?
19:59 thd ?
19:59 thd kados: why does Perl want to complain about characters that should all be ASCII.
19:58 kados thd: it's the encoding of a char that's the prob
19:58 kados thd: no, not sure what that would tell me anyway
19:57 kados however, it's perl that's complaining in this case
19:57 thd kados: look at 11.html . Do you see anything wrong?
19:57 kados at least it claims to be marc-8
19:57 kados LDR 01467cam 2200361 i 4500
19:57 kados NUMBER 11 =>
19:57 kados LDR 00450cam 2200157 4500
19:57 kados NUMBER 10 =>
19:57 kados no
19:56 thd kados: Is record 11 Unicode and not MARC 8?
19:55 thd kados: they were raw and I mostly had no problems but I did nothing to encode the raw data. The raw data was the raw data except for display.
19:54 kados on record #11
19:54 kados utf8 "\xEC" does not map to Unicode at /usr/lib/perl/5.8/Encode.pm line 164, <INFILE> line 171.
19:54 kados the script i wrote dies with:
19:54 thd Genji: the media type is a very amorphous term. MARC generally uses media types contained in standard cataloguing rules but spreads the information all over the record while the leader contains the most important information in positions 06 and 07.
19:54 kados thd: (and were they downloaded in raw format?)
19:53 kados thd: (did php or perl write them to file?)
19:53 kados thd: did you write binmode utf8 when you wrote them to file?
19:53 kados thd: mostlikely because of the way they were saved
19:53 kados thd: these records have some major problems with encoding
19:52 kados thd: remember that error you were having when attempting to import record #11?
19:50 Genji new tables... media type table, itemtype table, itemsubtype table... one linked to the other. for instance... CNFB means Children nonfiction books... ahh.. copying cataloged records.. right. haven't got that far.
19:50 thd Genji: kados and I were discussing reading some media type information from the leader, etc. for copy catalogued records.
19:48 thd Genji: how did you determine media type in your code?
19:47 thd kados: obviously parts of my code are missing something as I stopped part way through but those issues can be easily fixed. Some variables certainly need a larger scope or some different treatment.
19:46 Genji ah... maybe mediatype is different.. but my implementation, which is in cvs, is mediatype -> itemtype-> itemsubtype
19:45 Genji okay...
19:44 Genji the root of koha module has been trimmed extremely....
19:43 Genji hmm... checking if its still in the cvs...
19:42 thd Genji: what was your idea?
19:41 Genji kados: media type codes? like my idea i implemented last year?
19:38 thd kados: you should have the message now
19:32 thd kados: more than two
19:31 kados thd: leader position6 only has two values, right?
19:30 kados k
19:30 thd kados: media type quickly becomes complex after leader but leader code is sufficient for what we need today.
19:29 thd kados: my code starts with the leader but you have to use both leader positions 06 and 07.
19:28 kados thd: do they all rely on the leader?
19:28 thd kados: I will send my code in two minutes.
19:27 thd kados: you may be missing something for books.
19:27 thd kados: I have more media type code than you could determine from that page.
19:25 kados thd: but I can actually insert the files as they are so you can look at them
19:25 kados thd: just have to add a few more things and I'll be done
19:24 kados thd: the script works like a charm
19:24 kados thd: unless they go above and beyone that list
19:24 kados thd: http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/Bib0443.htm
19:24 kados thd: already got the media type codes
19:24 kados thd: the script's 90% done
19:24 thd kados: yes I am sending you some media type code
19:22 kados thd: you around?
19:14 slef doesn't mean much unless they accept them
19:14 slef bugzilla assigns them automatically
19:04 Genji how is it that all bugs are assigned to people, even though its status is NEW?
18:39 chris NPL do genji .. and i think liblime's clients use variants of it but im not sure
18:39 chris probably be back later
18:38 chris ok im gonna go out for a bit and enjoy some sun
18:38 Genji what libs use NPL templates?
18:34 slef that was, what, 12 years ago now
18:34 chris hehe
18:33 slef went to uni in Norwich and got distracted on the way back
18:33 slef chris: I'm from near Northampton and spend some time near Bristol.
18:32 chris heh
18:32 slef (~70 miles by road)
18:32 chris anything there you are welcome to have a go at
18:32 slef .uk sites don't like concave coastlines - I search for cinema showings and get results for "Skegness, 22 miles North"
18:32 chris bugs.koha.org
18:32 chris yep we do
18:32 Genji we dont have a bugzilla anymore?
18:31 chris im not sure why, but i had it my head you were way more to the west
18:31 slef forgot I had that map bookmarked
18:31 chris right, i have a much better idea now
18:31 slef next political capital upwards is Norwich, 45 miles E
18:30 chris ahh
18:30 slef next large place is peterborough, 33 miles WSW
18:30 chris genji: might be a good idea to drop a mail to koha-devel that way lots of eyes willl see it
18:29 slef http://uk2.multimap.com/clients/browse.cgi?X=562000&Y=320500&gride=562078&gridn=320484&width=700&height=400&client=M6&db=ap&scale=10000&scale=4000000
18:29 chris thats not that helpful :)
18:29 chris heh
18:29 slef biiig black rectangle
18:29 slef heh, maps.google.com is a night view here
18:28 chris and north is porirua
18:28 slef http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/worlebury-hill.asp but it only has a picture of Crook Peak on the other side of the valley (picture with the Hutton label)
18:28 chris across the harbour to the northeast is huttcity, and upper hutt
18:28 chris wellington city is at teh southern end of the harbour
18:27 chris http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=wellington+nz&t=k&ll=-41.279998,174.779998&spn=0.282259,0.839767
18:27 Genji when is kados most active?
18:26 chris centre of the city even :)
18:26 chris well it includes those other 3 cities .. but from the city of the centre to the outlying cities, furthest one would be 30 mins in a car
18:25 chris hmmm, kados might be the best one to answer that genji
18:25 slef is the region much bigger?
18:24 chris 423k in wellington region
18:24 chris 2001 census 163k in wellington city
18:24 chris ah ha
18:22 Genji okay.. im going to be doing chores but can someone please inform me of the current bugs and feature requests on Koha? want to get back into it.
18:22 chris heh
18:22 slef apart from the wooded hill, which reminds me of Worlebury (small, don't ask)
18:22 slef look of it reminds me of Toronto somehow
18:22 chris im not sure how many in wellington proper
18:21 chris 3 are 4 cities .. wellington itself, porirua, hutt city, and upper hutt ... i think combined its around 600k
18:21 chris hmm good question
18:21 slef how many in Wellington?
18:20 slef hello Genji
18:19 slef and more factories... it's just generally a bit wrong
18:19 Genji hello all.
18:19 slef so it has more shops and stuff than a town of 10k usually would
18:19 slef most of the stuff until those places to the south and west looks like the pictures from the bridge
18:18 chris right, its reasonably sized compared to a lot of places in nz too
18:18 slef I think it's a very small town, but it's the biggest place for 35 miles by land
18:17 slef yes and no
18:17 chris ahh right
18:17 slef (there are four or so villages inside the bypass, slowing running into the town)
18:17 chris right, so quite small in the scheme of things
18:16 slef 10k in the main town, 40k inside the bypass
18:16 chris how many people live there?
18:15 chris http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/v/2003/wellington/wellington.jpg.html
18:15 slef there are buildings you see really clearly from Ferry Square that I don't usually notice
18:15 slef I can't identify everything
18:15 chris thats cool
18:14 chris oohh tricky
18:14 slef on lynnwide that is
18:14 slef btw, if you mouseover bits of the image, the titles tell you what's what
18:13 chris ahh ok
18:12 slef well, near
18:12 slef but I'll probably move there soon
18:12 slef Bristol is about 4hrs train or full-speed driving away
18:11 chris and kados said hi, thats about it
18:11 chris i just congratulated kyle on the template he committed
18:11 chris nothing really
18:11 slef what did I miss?
18:10 chris ahh cool
18:10 slef *** The server says: ERROR :Closing Link: 50-30-55-213.adsl.realpoptel.net
18:10 slef <chris> i have friends who I went to uni with, who are pharmacists in bristol
18:10 slef across the river
18:10 slef <slef> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/photos/lynn/lynnwide is the town, as seen from
18:10 slef <slef> no, it's not all like that here (despite what some morons tell you)
18:10 slef <slef> yes, it is really that flat
18:10 slef outside town
18:10 slef <slef> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/blog/2006/cyclynn has some pictures of just
18:10 slef at least to .uk
18:09 slef Someone buy .nz a new link to the world, please.
18:05 kados hey kyle
18:05 chris nice work on the template, very snazzy
18:05 chris hi kyle
17:53 chris i have friends who I went to uni with, who are pharmacists in bristol
17:53 chris i forget where in the UK are u slef?
17:52 slef for sure
17:52 chris IMO there isnt actually anymore drinking going on by 18,19 year olds, its just they can do it in the open now
17:52 slef I think only the Nordics have a worse reputation... and they had even tighter alcohol restrictions!
17:52 slef I just hope the English figure out drinking before we drag the rest of Europe down with us
17:52 slef as ever, some people are slower learners than others ;-)
17:52 slef personally, I think if you're old enough to get it, you're old enough to drink it... sooner you start, sooner you learn when to stop
17:52 slef and you can legally drink younger than that in some situations which I forget
17:52 chris so they are proposing to raise the drinking age again .. which i suspect wont do a damn thing except hide the problem again
17:51 chris mainly young kids
17:50 chris yeah, binge drinking is still a problem in nz
17:50 chris ahh same as here then
17:49 slef 18
17:49 slef England has binge drinking trouble as we adapt to the idea that alcohol is always available
17:49 chris whats the drinking age 20?
17:49 chris :)
17:49 slef given most the bars in this town, that's probably correct, though :-/
17:49 slef as far as I can tell
17:48 slef still the police object to pretty much all applications for longer hours
17:48 chris right
17:48 slef s/deregulated/derestricted/
17:48 chris ahh yes i remember seeing that on the news slef
17:48 slef shops have been 24 hours for a while
17:48 chris does mail come on sunday in the US joshua?
17:48 slef we've only just got deregulated opening times for bars
17:47 chris i dont think there is a set time anymore, there are bars that seem to never be closed :)
17:47 chris it got changed to 10 oclock closing
17:47 chris 1967
17:46 chris i forget when 6 oclock closing ended
17:45 chris in nz
17:45 chris and there was no advertising on tv on sundays
17:45 slef although in the village I grew up, it closed pretty much every weekend
17:45 chris 20 years ago .. shops didnt open on sundays
17:45 chris :-)
17:44 slef chris: it's like Eng 20 years ago...
17:44 chris (the 25th)
17:44 chris then we have anzac day next tuesday .. lots of public holidays in april
17:43 kados hehe
17:42 chris that opens and gets fined every year
17:42 chris oh and there is a rogue garden store chain
17:42 chris so only gas stations, movie theatres and restaurants generally
17:42 chris i think its double time .. might be time and a half
17:42 chris and you have to pay your staff double time
17:42 kados heh
17:41 chris easter and christmas nz pretty much shuts down ... you have to get permission to trade
17:41 chris ahh, ill ask next time i see him slef
17:40 kados slef: no idea, I don't do holidays :-)
17:39 slef kados: what? The US doesn't celebrate Easter Monday?
17:39 slef chris: mostly curious. Nothing in partic unless you can make si /mode #koha -t ;-)
17:20 chris yep its a holiday, im around for the next 20 mins or so tho if you need something slef?
16:57 kados monday for us
16:57 kados i think it's holiday until tuesday
16:40 slef Are the .nz working today or is it a holiday there now?
16:39 slef hello osmoze
16:04 osmoze hello
15:08 kados owen: not sure why it was wrapped in that to begin with
15:08 kados owen: re: amacon change, sure
15:07 kados owen: having to do with db updating, installer, etc.
15:07 kados owen: I've send a mail to mason with a list of remaining tasks
15:07 kados owen: it's all yours
15:06 kados owen: ok, cvs is updated as far as placement and links go
15:06 kados owen: all the -home stuff should go in the root dir
14:54 owen kados: why doesn't labels-home.pl belong in /barcodes ?
14:34 owen Hmmm... looks like I can.
14:32 owen Can I just move the 'AmazonContent => C4::Context->preference("AmazonContent"),' outside of that unless?
14:32 owen Right now it's inside "unless ($in->{'type'} eq "intranet") {"
14:32 kados owen: then you can beautify it :-)
14:31 kados owen: get it working first
14:31 kados owen: I'll hack on the barcodes stuff
14:31 kados owen: no, just haven't merged that stuff again
14:31 owen Is there any reason why the AmazonContent system pref shouldn't apply to OPAC and Intranet both?
14:30 owen Say, while you're here...
14:30 owen It was just cleanup, though. Easy to do again. *sigh*
14:30 kados hehe
14:29 owen I /did/ work on it. Then I overwrote it with a CVS update. :(
14:28 kados owen: I was gonna work on it a bit but wanted to avoid merge conflicts
14:28 kados owen: if so, could you commit what you've got?
14:27 kados owen: have you worked at all on the barcodes stuff?
12:56 thd kados: I try to avoid being incomplete in explanation :)
12:55 kados thd: thanks
12:55 kados thd: in the email
12:55 kados thd: very useful explaination
12:53 thd kados: the useful file content is not very large but the HTML log files contained even unused records :)
12:51 kados thd: I'll take a look asap
12:51 kados thd: thanks
12:51 thd kados: I just sent you the bzipped file. Sending had failed to work this morning because the gzipped file had exceeded my quota for attachment size.