IRC log for #koha, 2005-09-11

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:30 kados w
12:30 kados heh ... not vi ;-)
14:05 hdl shaun around ?
14:09 kados hdl: to your knowledge does the 'exact' radio button work with Koha 2.2.3 MARC searching?
14:13 kados I just checked ... the answer is no
14:13 shaun hdl: yep
14:13 hdl but we had problems with adding criteria.
14:14 hdl Shaun : when wilt the frnch version be issued ?
14:15 hdl I would like either to have look at it before it is.
14:15 hdl An probably would paul too.
14:15 shaun hdl: i'm not sure - paul said earlier about being updated to match my design, but i'll have to talk to you/paul and russ at the same time to work out the translation procedure for the main site
14:17 hdl We could make our site a replica of yours with Kea... But I couldn't find Kea sources. And then use rsync or anything else to make a replica.
14:17 hdl But sure, this need talk.
14:18 hdl The fact is that we find it useful to have hands on our version.
14:19 hdl That gives us the opportunity to adapt to our audience.
14:20 hdl Would there be a way to edit french pages for us ?
14:21 shaun if it was as a part of the main ( website, of course - kea has permissions
14:21 hdl Wouldn't it be cool if we could be mirrors ?
14:22 hdl kados : adding a fourth or more criterium ends up in error.
14:22 kados ?
14:22 kados hdl: fourth or more what?
14:22 shaun it would be good to have some international mirrors - one in america and one in france could really improve things
14:22 kados I think mirrors are planned
14:23 kados I'd like to host one as well
14:23 hdl kados :in cat search, add criteria.
14:23 kados shouldn't be too difficult but it should wait until after Katipo's conference ;-)
14:23 kados hdl: do you know why?
14:24 hdl kados shaun : So mirrors shall wait a bit. But let me know. I am in charge of Koha(s french netserver.
14:25 hdl kados : mysql error.
14:25 hdl kados : but ain't got no logs ?
14:27 kados hdl: I tried searching for keyword, title, author, subject and series title (on a record I know exists) and it seems to work ok
14:27 kados hdl: what I'd like to know is how can we search for an exact phrase like in author "Lewis, C.S."
14:27 kados hdl: I think Koha 2.2.x cannot do this but tell me if I'm wrong
14:30 kados hdl: I think the only search Koha can do now is 'Lewis% AND C% AND S%' because we're doing an AND search on marc_word table
14:31 kados hdl: and marc_word only has single words
14:31 kados hdl: (but I suppose we could add a search for marc_subfield_table that searched for phrases ... but I think it's not worth it since we'll be moving to Zebra soon anyway)
14:33 hdl Yes, it joins paul's remark :
14:34 hdl he said he wondered if we should go on adding features, since a third version is on the way. We should focus on debugging.
14:34 kados I agree
14:34 hdl And not make any new dev.
14:34 hdl He asked it to the french clients.
14:34 hdl Becaus they must aggre too :)
14:35 kados :-)
14:42 thd shaun: are you there?
14:46 thd kados: Do I understand correctly that phrase searching does not work in 2.2.3?
14:46 kados thd: correct
14:46 kados thd: in fact, I don't see an option for phrase searching ;-)
14:46 kados thd: do you have one?
14:47 shaun thd: now i am
14:48 thd kados: No, I write generically.  Well, fixing that would not be adding a new feature as hdl may have suggested against, but fixing a bug :)
14:49 kados thd: I like that in theory
14:49 kados thd: but I think that approach is impractical
14:49 kados thd: since we're already moving towards Zebra which will the 'the right way' to go
14:49 kados thd: no sense in polishing the brass on a sinking ship ;-)
14:50 kados thd: or polishing the turd ;-)
14:50 thd shaun: paul had noticed earlier that the new site has no bgcolor for body, therefore, text appeared on a grey background in his browser.
14:51 kados looking back, we should have implemented marc_word searching for generic searching and marc_subfield_table searching for phrase searching
14:51 kados but there's no sense in doing that now ;-)
14:51 shaun thd: it's fixed now - russ hasn't given me trigger permissions though, so it won't appear in the site until he checks it
14:52 kados owen: wow ... we're wrong
14:52 kados owen: check out the advanced search in the intranet
14:52 kados owen: the MARC search has 'exact' and it works like a charm
14:53 thd kados: I agree, just making the logical point.  It is a nice turd though.  Nevertheless, the time-line for 3.0 should not be expected to be extremely short.
14:54 thd shaun: Thanks :)
14:56 thd kados: Does that mean that the template for the OPAC is wrong?
15:01 owen kados: ?
15:01 owen You mean under 'More fields' ?
15:02 thd owen: I have been noticing in my review of Koha features that the NPL templates break as much as they provide additionally.  I have not attempted to document which features work with which templates, as some do not work with any.  If you experimented with authorities in the default template, you should find that they can be made to work, you must know that the NPL templates are missing something important for authorities.
15:03 owen Until I have a proper understanding of how authorities work, I am unable to template them properly
15:05 thd owen: I managed to get them to work.  Next week if I have some time, I would be happy to try and write an explanation for you.  hdl was very patient with me in my experimentation :)
15:06 thd owen: They are very nice, although, much nicer with the prepackaging in UNIMARC Koha.
15:08 owen If you write something up, I can add it to the online help screens
15:10 thd owen: The worst problem with the authorities in Koha, such as they are now, is lack of proper documentation.
15:14 thd owen, kados: so is the issue about phrase or exact searching in Koha simply a problem with the OPAC templates that can be corrected with the code by using the correct code from the intranet templates?
15:48 shaun damn, i'm not going to catch russ now, it's saturday in NZ
16:00 chris you might catch him, but i doubt it shaun, hes probably packing, we head off down south today
16:00 chris can I help shaun?
16:00 chris if you need somethign triggered, i can do that
16:01 chris just let me know what file/files
16:03 thd chris: when is a currency conversion rate set for an order?
16:04 shaun chris: yep, screen.css
16:04 shaun cheers
16:04 chris done shaun
16:05 shaun chris: any chance i could get triggering permissions? i've got a few patches yet to do unfortunately
16:06 chris done
16:07 shaun thank you
16:07 chris thd: this is in full acquisitions right? well the way it used to work (i think it still does, we are still testing/fixing it for 2.2.x) was when you created/edited a supplier you entered in what currency you order in
16:07 thd chris: I have not been able to test when the conversion rate is set myself because of nonworking acquisitions implementations at the critical point.
16:07 chris you set the conversion rate yourself
16:08 chris it doesnt automatically update
16:09 chris or you can set up a cron job which fetches the rates from a site, and updates the db
16:09 thd chris: even full acquisitions on the 1.92 Koha demo on fails with a tell chris screen at some point in receiving :)
16:09 chris yep, the last known good full acquisitions was 1.2.3
16:09 chris hlt use it pretty much everyday
16:10 chris but we are busy fixing it in 2.2.3 for them, so they can upgrade
16:10 chris so it should be all working again soon
16:10 thd chris: what I am asking about is what happens to orders that have not been received when I change the conversion rate in parameters.
16:10 chris ahh nothing thd
16:10 thd ?
16:10 chris it doesnt apply the conversion until you receive them
16:11 thd chris: and then the conversion is fixed for that order but still floating for open orders?
16:12 chris thats right
16:12 thd chris: what about a partial order receipt?  What happens for the conversion rate for the order in that case?
16:13 chris it'll get applied for the items received, and the replacement price on the item table will have that, its still technically floating for any items outstandingy
16:13 chris -y
16:15 thd chris: Can the projected budget use the conversion rate?
16:16 chris yep, i think it may actually, the projected budget is drawn from the estimated price .. which if i remember rightly is the converted rate when the order is placed
16:16 thd chris: I mean while the order is still open, does the conversion rate affect the projected budget?
16:17 chris not at the moment, it could tho, we could change it so that it stores the estimated price in the currency of the order (instead od the local currency)
16:17 chris and apply conversions when showing the budgest
16:18 chris would be a simple change, but currently no, it reflects the converted price at the time of the order, so when its received, it may end up costing more/less than you estimated (even without conversions this happens:-))
16:26 thd chris: Is the notice about this number should be close to the real one for last significant digit rounding errors with the tax rate on partial order receipts?
16:28 thd chris: I can bother you about this question at some other time.
16:29 thd chris: Good luck at catching more business during the conference.
16:33 shaun open question: what purpose does downloading koha from katipo (see serve? it seems to make it more confusing than necessary, and it isn't up-to-date, and it's expensive for katipo...
16:34 thd chris: I now expect to have the partial feature list submitted by late tomorrow.  The text is about completed but I have to do the mark-up.  If Irma and rach have a chance to look, maybe they will find it well enough to there liking to trigger it.
16:37 shaun thd: mark-up isn't a problem imo, nothing's the same on any two pages atm
16:38 thd shaun: The download leads to a 404 page for me.  That is certainly not very up to date.  But what did you mean about it not being up to date.
16:38 shaun thd: didn't realise it was that bad - but previously it only went up to 2.2.2, for example
16:43 thd shaun: I have written the feature list as one large text file thus far.  I still have to add a little more to include links to the docs; supply list tags for the outline; break it down into several nested pages in relevant directories; debug everything; see if it actually looks somewhat readable which it certainly is not as one giant file; and try to get some sleep.
16:44 shaun mmm, sleep :-)
16:47 thd shaun: Maybe tomorrow night is too ambitious, but I have done the hardest part.  So the rest looks easy now :)  It would serve more purposes than merely a feature list so it has been a fair amount of work.  I would like to get more sleep but I would also like it to be available for use during the conference if it may be helpful.
16:52 thd shaun: I have forgotten about sleep this week and that cannot have helped my work.  Just me trying to do the impossible and hoping that it would be realisable in the time constraint :)  I had not thought that learning the features that I had not examined would take so long.  Broken templates have not accelerated my process of discovery.  There was not enough error time tolerance in my schedule :)
16:54 shaun (i'm glad i'm mostly doing design) - i wouldn't have thought that it would be so complicated either
17:09 thd shaun: sorry, disconnected
17:10 shaun thd: np
17:14 thd my post has not been posting.  Must be a flood issue.
17:18 thd shaun: I deliberately made features into a large multiple use project.  My original intent for volunteering for features and FAQ had largely been to ensure that my knowledge was complete and up to date and that those parts would at least have the best chance that I could give them.  I understand that Koha generally and the web site in particular has suffered from a lack of time that people have had to work on it.
17:18 thd .
17:18 thd shaun: My ambitions for the FAQ are modest: 20 more main questions or so and some enhancements should save me and others from answering them over and over again on the koha list.  More to the point, good FAQ should definitely avoid some user frustration with some of the more troublesome recurring Koha complications.  In addition to clarifying the unfamiliar.
17:19 shaun katipods: just noticed, .htaccess does not have correct permissions (i can read it here), and the links are all at instead of
17:24 thd shaun: Had you seen the large text I just posted before or does logbot report correctly that it never made it to the channel?
17:25 shaun thd: i got two blocks and in the middle, "thd:  ."
17:25 thd s/channel/channel previously/
17:28 thd shaun: But did you get a similarly worded text several minutes ago without the block divisions?  I had tried to post it twice before, originally just after you posted, "i wouldn't have thought that it would be so complicated either."
17:28 shaun thd: nope
17:29 thd shaun: The post would only show up on logbot when I divided it into blocks.
17:29 shaun thd: that's how i get them in xchat
17:31 thd shaun: I never used IRC before a year ago.  I only learnt the /me command quite recently.  I have not had a chance to get in trouble with it yet:)
17:39 thd shaun: Are you suggesting that X-Chat is simply not posting a large text post without informing me rather than the channel refusing it?
17:39 thd shaun: I am using X-Chat.
17:40 shaun thd: afaik, IRC was never designed for long messages, so it could well be the server
17:43 thd shaun: The client should insert a linefeed automatically when the text is too long perhaps there is a setting I can adjust.  I never grew up learning to communicate in abbreviations :)
17:45 thd shaun: Although I know that my thoroughness or verbosity can be offputing in the short attention span world, where people have no time to consider context and detail.
17:48 thd shaun: What is your involvement with Koha independent of the website?
17:49 shaun thd: i would usually communicate eloquently, but real-time chat is, in my opinion, informal enough to use abbreviations - especially considering most people here will know what i'm talking about anyway
17:51 shaun thd: i first got into it because i'm working on a redhat-based linux distribution for use in the education sector and needed a library system released under GPL or similar
17:52 shaun thd: i've since been involved with my school, convincing them to use it above a proprietary, mainstream ILS
17:52 thd shaun: I struggle in the culture of abbreviations for common phrases as opposed to the conventional abbreviations used in printed documents :)  Years ago I would struggle to interpret IMHO and such but they still stop me when I see them.
17:53 thd shaun: What type of school is yours that you are trying to convince?
17:54 shaun thd: so, i'm working on "anything that ain't perl", trying to know the code better, and i would like to see the default templates improved, too (i worked on that for a while)
17:54 shaun thd: a high school,
17:55 thd shaun: I have yet to learn HTML::Template.
17:58 thd shaun: So I have been largely working on functionality in a way that is less tightly integrated to see it working at all for later integration.  I reduce the learning pace required significantly and can debug without involving Koha code.
18:00 thd shaun: What ILS does your school use now?
18:00 shaun thd: Alice by Softlink
18:01 shaun thd: if they won't switch to koha, they will use Oliver, the web-based equivalent of Alice by the same company
18:01 shaun thd: i'm making an effort to learn perl, as i would like to be involved with the koha suite and the stocktake system
18:03 shaun thd: now that i've cleared up what i was doing on the koha site, i'm afraid i have to go
18:05 shaun g'night

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