IRC log for #koha, 2005-09-09

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:12 hdl thd. hi.
12:13 hdl I found a in misc But I never used it.
12:13 hdl For authorities import.
12:18 kados____ thd: are you around?
14:08 thd kados____: I am around now
14:13 thd hdl: I will speculate before looking that is not for MARC authorities.
14:16 thd hdl: well I would be wrong
14:24 thd hdl: is just what I was looking for but it is UNIMARC only for now.
14:35 thd hdl: Now I remember why does not do MARC authorities (or anything else).  It does not work in version 2.2.2 and presumably 2.2.3 unless Paul or someone has fixed it.
17:20 russ hi
17:21 thd hello russ
17:21 russ hi thd
17:23 thd russ: Do not panic yet I will still have a fine feature list before your final deadline.  I stayed up all night last night working on it.
17:23 russ thd: excellent news
17:24 thd russ: The trouble has been that to write it well I have had to examine parts of Koha that I had only glanced at before.
17:25 thd russ: Most of the work has gone into examination of those parts of Koha that I have not seen before.
17:26 thd russ: Does Katipo have multi-branch libraries?
17:27 chris certainly does
17:27 chris hlt has 3 (well sort of four) branches
17:27 chris rangitikei has 4
17:28 thd chris: What means is used to transfer material between branches within Koha when a patron at one branch requests an item held at another branch?
17:30 chris irc a lot of the time
17:31 chris and you can use branch transfers
17:31 chris basically a bunch of books are bunched up and couriered/sent to the branch
17:32 chris and you can use branch transfers to change their holdingbranch to where they are going when you put them in the box
17:32 thd chris: Where are branch transfers supported within Koha?
17:32 chris circulation
17:32 chris there are three options, issues, returns, branch transfers
17:33 chris /cgi-bin/koha/circ/
17:33 thd chris: I need to look more closely, I have been rushing a bit and missing the obvious in a few cases :)
17:34 chris :)
17:37 thd chris: When an order is confirmed in acquisitions, does the supplier receive an automatic message with the order by email?
17:38 chris no
17:39 thd chris: Well EDI would be a better means to manage order messages in any case.  Some ways off for Koha yet though.
17:39 chris yeah and its not functionality hlt wanted
17:39 chris (emailing the supplier)
17:40 thd chris: How does HLT communicate orders to the supplier?
17:41 chris i dont know
17:41 chris i suspect snail mail
17:41 thd :O
17:41 chris must nz suppliers would probably go mental if you sent them an email order
17:41 chris must=most
17:42 thd chris: what about EDI in NZ?
17:42 chris i get the impression that often orders have no real bearing on what you receive as well
17:42 chris no idea
17:43 thd chris: Koha handles the no real bearing part rather well.  Very thoughtful of you.
17:43 chris we arent really a prime market .. total population of 4 million and all ... we are lucky we get books at all :-)
17:44 thd chris: Too many of the have to travel the oceans to come from their original publisher ;)
17:44 chris yep
17:47 thd chris: Koha tracks the order receipt and overdue orders but what does it do for tracking the issuing of payments to the supplier?
17:48 chris nothing
17:48 chris it leaves that up to their accounting package
17:49 thd chris: It would be nice if that accounting package were tied into Koha.
17:49 chris sure would
17:50 chris pretty hard to do though .. well in a general way
17:52 thd chris: with an API and/or GPL SQL-Ledger.
17:52 chris yep thatd be fine
17:52 chris but ive yet to bump into a library running sql-ledger
17:53 chris or have an accounting system with a documented API
17:53 thd chris: We have to pave the way with Koha at some point.
17:53 chris most libraries in NZ anyway (hlt is an exception) are owned/run by the city council
17:54 chris and they just have to use the accounting package they are told to
17:54 kados____ morning chris
17:54 chris sure thd, its just low on my priority list :-)
17:54 kados____ could you fix my nick?
17:54 kados____ :-)
17:54 chris you can
17:54 chris type
17:54 chris /nick kados
17:54 kados____ tried that
17:54 kados____ kados is already in use
17:55 chris ahh well you need to find that process and kill it
17:55 chris type
17:55 chris /whois kados
17:55 chris you are connected to irc twice :)
17:56 kados____ hmmm ... I've been experimenting with using irssi to connect to multiple servers and channels
17:56 chris yeah i think youve connected to this server twice :)
17:56 thd chris: The other is an invisible ghost :)
17:56 chris actually hes connected 4 times
17:56 chris kados, kados_ kados__ kados___
17:57 chris they are just lurking, in no channels
17:57 chris kados, you have a few other clones too
17:57 kados weird
17:57 kados where are they?
17:57 chris not in any channels
17:57 kados I don't see them on /who
17:57 chris you wont
17:57 chris cos they arent in a #
17:58 chris do a /whois kados_
17:58 chris and /whois kados__
17:58 kados shoot
17:58 chris :)
17:58 kados is there some way to kill a nick?
17:59 chris nope
17:59 kados so I'm stuck with the clones?
17:59 thd kados: They may have been started as part of a reconnection script when the Katipo IRC server lost communication outside New Zealand last night from an upstream ISP outage.
17:59 kados yea ... freenode's been wonky too
18:00 chris id try quitting irssi
18:00 chris and starting it again
18:00 kados yea ... maybe later next week ;-)
18:00 thd chris: I seem to remember an IRC command for correcting that problem.  Not one I have ever had to use.
18:00 chris if you could change to the other user
18:01 chris then you can just /quit it
18:01 kados thd: there's one that tells the nickserv to get rid of ghosts
18:01 kados but you have to have a nickserv module ;-)
18:01 kados and katipo doesn't
18:01 chris yeah, and these technically arent ghosts
18:01 kados ahh
18:01 chris they are clones
18:01 chris ghosts are when you have timed out, but the ircd hasnt realised that yet
18:02 thd kados: I was thinking that this is actually not ghost issue but a zombie problem.
18:02 kados :-)
18:04 thd kados: What had you wanted to ask about Z39.50?
18:06 kados thd: unfortunately I'm a bit too busy at the moment to work on that ... but in short I was unable to use Koha's z3950 client ... tried MELVL and LOC but to no avail
18:06 thd chris: When will acquisitions be likely to work for 2.2.3?  russ had indicated that you were fixing some bugs that prevent it functioning in normal mode.
18:06 chris it works .. just has some bugs
18:06 kados MELVL wouldn't return MARC and LOC wouldn't return rc->size
18:07 chris LOC works sometimes
18:07 chris its mental
18:07 chris try the canadian national library joshua
18:07 kados well ... I could get it to find and return things ... but only in the log
18:07 kados they wouldn't ever actually display to the user
18:07 kados will do
18:07 chris we catalogued about 5 books using LoC the other day
18:08 chris just as a test
18:08 chris thd: it will be bugfree (well freeish) by the end of hte month
18:10 thd kados: The Koha Z39.50 client seems poorly implemented to me and a little to complex for me to sort out in any reasonable period of time.  Therefore I have started over, because as you know,  I need Z39.50 working better for a prospective bookshop client.  I seem to remember a different form of the Koha Z39.50 client in the past that seemed better.
18:11 chris cool thd, something id like would be for it to provide a lot more feedback to the user about what its doing
18:11 kados yea ... also, don't forget about the zoom API
18:11 chris currently, its pretty hard to know whether its working on not
18:12 thd kados: So I have not been looking at the Koha code.  I did get sidetracked with character set issues for at least two weeks though when I discovered that Koha does not support the MARC-8 character set.
18:15 thd kados: I also found a bug in YAZ character set conversions that seems to occur about 20% of the time in my tests and wipes out the remainder of the record instead of merely issuing an odd character at that point.
18:17 thd kados: I would wait for the new API, but I need to have something working before it is ready.  I should at least have some significantly greater understanding of Z39.50 to bring to the new API even if the code may not be very easily converted.
18:17 kados thd: excelletn
18:20 thd kados: In the past few days I have been exclusively exploring the areas of Koha that I had not examined in any detail before for writing the features list for the new website.
18:22 thd kados: The YAZ bug would only be a problem for using YAZ to convert characters for the OPAC.  There are Perl modules that can serve the same purpose.
18:29 thd chris: I will look forward to your completion of bug fixes for supporting normal acquisitions in 2.2.3.  It may help smooth over other rough edges in Koha for my prospective bookshop customer even if she may never use that feature.  Knowing that the provided features actually work inspires confidence.
19:31 chris hi owen
19:31 owen Hi chris
19:32 owen What's new?
19:32 chris umm
19:32 chris last minute panics before the conference
19:32 chris those are new
19:32 owen Conference?
19:32 chris lianza next week
19:33 chris the nz library conference thing
19:33 owen Hey, Katipo is result #2 for 'Lianza Conference' Google search!
19:34 chris heh cool
19:34 chris thats last years :)
19:35 owen It says 2005
19:36 chris oh i was talking about the emails :)
19:37 chris is the conference
19:38 chris it doesnt hurt that lianza run koha
19:38 chris[…]ha/ :)
19:41 owen Cool...looks like they're using it as kind of a web document manager?
19:41 chris yep
19:41 russ we really need to think of a name for that
19:42 russ it is a hybrid of koha and our kea cms
20:10 kados huh ... it's in /etc/init.d/sshd
20:10 kados oops
01:55 thd chris: are you still there?
02:38 thd good morning paul
02:39 paul hi thd
02:39 thd paul: did you receive my message about
02:40 paul yes, but I was not here yesterday. Reading my mails just today?
02:40 paul s/?/./
02:41 paul just one question : what do you want to do with ?
02:41 thd paul: I want to import authority records for use in Koha.
02:42 paul and how do you plan to "connect" your authorities with bilbios ?
02:42 paul because that's the main problem with in fact
02:42 paul you MUST have a $9 in biblio, containing the authid (authority number in Koha)
02:43 osmoze hello all
02:43 thd hello osmoze
02:43 thd paul: Had it not worked in the past?
02:44 paul I never needed to do this. Instead, I usually rebuild authorities from biblios after bulkmarcimporting them.
02:45 thd paul: I understand, I want to have authority records available for use in original cataloguing.
02:45 paul you mean you don't have biblios to import ?
02:46 paul you just want to import authorities, then manually catalogue ?
02:46 thd paul: Well I have those too but just sometimes it is actually necessary to manually catalogue.
02:48 thd paul: Much more importantly I want to have the 4XX, 5XX, fields available for searching in the OPAC so that the user can search without knowing the authorised form of a heading.
02:53 paul thd : remember I know only a little MARC21, so 4xx and 5xx don't mean a lot of things for me in this case
02:53 thd paul: user query for T. Smith found in 4XX then transparently searches for the authorised heading Smith, Thomas Quincy
02:54 thd paul: For authority format 4XX and 5XX are much the same between MARC 21 and UNIMARC.
02:55 thd paul: 4XX, see reference tracings; 5XX, see also reference tracings
03:00 thd paul: The most immediately striking significant difference between MARC 21 and UNIMARC authority formats is that MARC 21 has the authorised heading in a particular 1XX corresponding to the type of authority concerned while UNIMARC uses 200 for the authorised heading with the type of authority set by the record label 000/06-09
03:03 thd paul: so with authorities in Koha a user could search on a non-standard form of the heading for a subject, for example, and have the search completed using the authorised heading.
03:05 thd paul: users cannot be expected to know what the authorised heading is when forming a query but will often guess a form that is used in a 4XX, 5XX, etc. authority field.
03:06 thd paul: The goal is not for the user to find the authority record necessarily but to improve the user query for finding the bibliographic record.
03:07 thd paul: either transparently, or with an additional prompt for possible authorised forms.
03:10 thd hello hdl
03:10 thd paul: Was the above clear?
03:16 hdl hello thd.
03:18 thd hdl: I was very pleased to see authorities working for me in Koha but[…]mande.html#d0e229 .
03:21 thd hdl: I was asking paul about this a few minutes ago and then he vanished or I scared him away explaining some of what I wanted to do with authority records in Koha.  See the log for the past several minutes.
03:23 thd hdl: Is this too much English for this hour of the morning? :)
03:23 hdl no.
03:23 paul (was in phone)
03:24 paul (hdl : with BDDC, to speak of the remplacement of their dead PC)
03:24 thd paul: :)
03:26 paul about 4xx and 5xx : the search won't be automatically extended to rejected forms or so
03:26 paul (too complex to code)
03:26 paul but the dictionnary button will help the user
03:26 paul here, he can find the correct value he is searching for.
03:32 thd paul: Is it not partly a question of adding more indexes to the correct fields, such that an index match for 4XX, 5XX then substitutes the matching authority heading and resubmits the query?  Queries would not be submitted directly they would be submitted to a script for authority validation and then submitted against the bibliographic indexes.
03:33 paul the solution we will probably use (in Koha 3.0) will be :
03:34 paul "search on Ratzinger did not return any result. Looking in my file I suspect you wanted to do a search on Benoit XVI. Do you want to search on Benoit XVI ?"
03:36 thd paul: A version of SIRSI Unicorn does this transparently.  Koha should be able to do anything that SIRSI can do, only better :)
03:36 thd paul: Including your solution ;)
03:37 paul i'm strongly against a computer saying "hey, dude, you are stupid, I'm intelligent, so i modified your question without your confirmation"
03:37 thd paul: Of course as am I.  I had meant this to be a search option.
03:41 thd paul: However, it should be well understood that authorised names are derived from copyright registrations and often never appear on the published work.  Authorised subject headings are a convention for libraries that an unfamiliar user should never be expected to know.  Even if a user does know the authorised form from some time, such forms evolve over time and may no longer be the authorised form presently.
03:43 thd paul: so what is the problem with for actually using the script to import authorities?
03:45 thd paul: had authority matching to the bibliographic record in Koha not used $9 before version 2.2.2?
03:46 paul no, it's just that I began writing bulkauthimport here.
03:46 paul and failed to do something working
03:47 thd paul: Do you mean that it never worked for importing authority records into Koha?
03:51 thd paul: I guess errors are less well documented than triumphs for when the memory fails later :)  Although, I often remember my errors better yet not perhaps the errors of a script.
03:58 thd What is meant to be in the second table of authority search results in the first column, the summary column?
06:13 thd paul: I noticed one incomplete aspect of which allows me to correct a mistake in my previous posting. should check which MARC 21 1XX or UNIMARC 2XX is being used to determine type of authority record.  000/09 is undefined in the UNIMARC standard yet read by to determine type of authority record.  What special authority records were you using that had 000/09 defined?
06:24 thd s/bulkmarc/bulkauth/
11:07 Sylvain hi all !
11:07 Sylvain paul, quelques remarques sur ton mail :)
11:08 paul je t'écoute ;-)
11:08 Sylvain alors j'ai noté USA à remplacer par États-Unis
11:08 Sylvain ça plait pas trop aux bibliothécaires ce genre de choses ;)
11:08 paul corrigé
11:09 Sylvain 2eme
11:09 Sylvain trimestre 2006
11:09 Sylvain j'aurais mis 2ème
11:09 Sylvain mais j'suis pas sur la
11:09 paul si, c'est juste
11:10 Sylvain Paul et Henri-Damien forment une équipe soudée qui peuvent -> qui peut
11:11 Sylvain à
11:11 Sylvain l'INRETS, et que c'est Koha qui a été retenu
11:11 Sylvain -> et Koha a été retenu
11:12 paul OK et OK
11:13 Sylvain 'implication de plusieurs sociétés dans le projet est une bonne
11:13 Sylvain nouvelles
11:13 Sylvain -s
11:13 paul et ben... que de fotes !
11:14 paul phote, pardon ;-)
11:14 Sylvain :)
11:14 Sylvain bon bein c'est tout ce que j'ai vu
11:14 Sylvain bien rentré hier au fait ?
11:15 paul oui, tout à fait.
11:15 paul 3H, c'est franchement génial !
11:16 Sylvain tu m'étonnes ...
11:49 shaun what happened to the case study box...?

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