IRC log for #koha, 2005-05-23

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
14:52 shaun hi... is anyone around?
15:31 shaun people who are here, I have been talking to ben about Free/Open Source disambiguations
15:33 shedges ?? such as...
15:34 shedges disambiguations?
15:34 shaun on the homepage, we make a big thing of "the first open source integrated library system" but there are a few other ILS that are open source (i.e. perl or ASP) which are open source (obviously) but prevent their users from editing code, redistributing it etc, and charge large amounts of money for them - it is those sorts of differences that we need to focus on
15:35 shedges I've been reading book lately -- "The Success of Open Source" bt Steven Weber
15:36 shaun To an end user, particularly a conservative one in a school, "maintained by a team of volunteers" says two things: "nerds" and "unprofessional"
15:36 shedges He makes the point that in the late 90's, as Linux, Apache, etc. started to be intergrated into commercial enterprises, the word "free" became a problem.
15:38 shaun but if we define "free" in depth, it shouldn't be a problem in that way, imo.
15:38 shedges too hard to define -- takes too much energy to explain repeatedly
15:39 shaun on a separate page then? or linked to the about page?
15:39 shedges You're thinking about the description on the koha home page?
15:39 shaun yes
15:40 shedges too bad we couldn't just do it in French -- libre instead of free
15:41 shedges is "open source" a common term in the UK?
15:41 shaun if instead of the "volunteers" one, we say something about "individuals representing libraries and other agencies" that should be fine, as nobody does koha without a cause, and it makes it sound like a more professional product.
15:41 shedges sure.  You could even say "libraries, businesses and other agencies."
15:43 shedges (I agree that "volunteers" is probably not a good word to use in the description.)
15:43 shaun I don't know about the whole of the UK, but in my community of work and friends, open source is just some other software.
15:46 shedges just looking at the koha page
15:46 shedges I guess we could confuse everybody and say
15:47 shedges "Koha, the first GPLed integrated library system"
15:52 shaun lol
15:55 shaun I'm off now, night all. btw: my new design is going into proof of concept stage
16:11 slef hi all... "open source" is a term used by UK people like the subject of
16:12 slef I've written about this before
16:13 slef Most of the meanings of "free" relate to liberty. Only a minority relate to cost, but that's a common first understanding in consumerist societies.
16:14 slef So, it would be a big help to English promotion if koha's marketing included "free software" and/or GPL rather than just "open source"
16:15 slef kados: debian is frozen. We could try to make a contrib package, but we'd also have to package some dependencies or make them optional.
16:16 slef s/contrib/vendor/
16:16 slef not sure about a free - debian mostly does it by negotiation like koha
16:17 slef biab
16:18 shedges slef:  You'd like to see "Koha, the first free integrated library system" on the home page?
17:03 slef shedges: the first free software integrated library system, maybe
19:31 shedges part good night
20:19 kados slef: In libraries in the US, 'free' is mainly used to refer to cost -- in a recent meeting with a library (potential client) they were totaly confused about why we were charging for something that was free -- it's like once you say the word 'free' here, a red flag goes up and people start being really critical if any money is involved
20:19 kados like they are trying to 'catch you' in your lie ... 'there's no such thing as a free lunch'
20:19 kados americans are really touchy about the word
20:19 kados on the other hand, most librarians have heard of open source
20:20 kados and although that term does raise questions it isn't dangerous to use it like with the word 'free'
20:20 kados just my two cents
21:18 slef kados: use free software and give 'em the FSF 4-point. That, or we should internationalise the koha web site and not use either term.
21:19 slef With all the software patent directive working its way through the EU institutions, those who have heard of "open source" go "oh, that again"
21:20 slef The biggest EU user of open source has Adobe (Sklyarov Inside?) as a member and is a spin-off from a club that includes Microsoft. That might suggest the spin it has.
21:20 slef user of "open source" as in the phrase
21:20 slef be back much later
01:52 indradg kados, its the same concerns in the India FLOSS community... "free" conjures up the image  of "free bear"... the GPL terms are OK...  but most ppl  find the whole  idea of GPL incomprehensible...  on the other hand OSS as a concept doesn't carry the same burden...
08:39 kados slef: what if the website said: koha, the first "Free and Open Source" integrated library system

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary