IRC log for #koha, 2022-01-19

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:04 eugene_ joined #koha
03:15 marie-luce joined #koha
05:51 lmstrand joined #koha
05:59 fridolin joined #koha
06:01 fridolin hi there
06:17 chriss joined #koha
07:08 reiveune joined #koha
07:08 reiveune hello
07:20 alex_a joined #koha
07:21 alex_a Bonjour
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: Update DBIC schema <[…]d8ba54eaf99f4a6c3>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: DBRev <[…]6f7f429825ea2c76b>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29704: (RM follow-up) Fix typo sned send <[…]a7010fee70f24b6ee>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29884: Run missing test in api/v1/patrons.t <[…]dbac12750572bb8e4>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29820: Set paging option using boolean instead of string <[…]4ff061b16c727cfef>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: Remove TODOs <[…]0bb14237f761dbf62>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18540: Update MARC21 biblio XSL file <[…]6118b147bbe81af27>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18540: (QA follow-up) Only mention index_sort_title if defined <[…]3cace9839449fa01f>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29812: Add missing use C4::Context in Koha::Token <[…]1d77a816952891dca>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29758: Get rid of warning in members/ <[…]ae772a8175c9d1e3c>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29704: Add a triggered option to <[…]0b3a04c4fcc0029b6>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29464: Make GET /acquisitions/orders honour sorting <[…]61d07046977e4f1a7>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29464: Regression tests <[…]a4112cdf8b878eabc>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29498: Remove usage of deprecated Mojolicious::Routes::Route::detour <[…]94e56ecdf6eb446cf>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29474: Remove one layer of indendation by adding if check in the begginning <[…]a9db990cefe2a8c41>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29474: Decouple renewal checks of auto-renewed issues from non-autorenewed <[…]5b2aaa72d520c8326>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29474: Return too_soon before checking renewals <[…]089cf51ba6bb7370a>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: Database revision <[…]9616bfdde4459aadb>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: Identify the fields with wrong length (or name) first <[…]aed78bee442b0c564>
07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18540: Handle indexing sort title only when needed <[…]35d9eabc7ec79ee92>
07:35 * fridolin feeding master :D
07:47 cait joined #koha
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07:57 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_CPAN build #514: STILL UNSTABLE in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_D11_CPAN/514/
08:02 lds joined #koha
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08:06 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U21 build #70: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_U21/70/
08:07 janPasi joined #koha
08:09 marion joined #koha
08:14 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #283: STILL UNSTABLE in 50 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U20/283/
08:22 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #729: STILL UNSTABLE in 59 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ster_D11_My8/729/
08:28 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #511: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 3 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D10/511/
08:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #1855: STILL UNSTABLE in 38 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D9/1855/
08:47 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D12 build #60: STILL UNSTABLE in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D12/60/
08:47 cait1 Frido is on a roll :)
08:49 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master build #1891: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 25 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_Master/1891/
09:09 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #358: STILL UNSTABLE in 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_U_Stable/358/
09:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29495: Fix TestBuilder.t <[…]fba410408ff66b39a>
09:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_MDB_Latest build #773: STILL UNSTABLE in 58 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]1_MDB_Latest/773/
09:31 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #1856: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D9/1856/
09:35 fridolin joined #koha
09:43 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #359: STILL UNSTABLE in 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_U_Stable/359/
10:14 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
10:14 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #1857: FIXED in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D9/1857/
10:17 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
10:17 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #284: FIXED in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U20/284/
10:21 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
10:21 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #360: FIXED in 1 hr 0 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_U_Stable/360/
10:24 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
10:24 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #730: FIXED in 53 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ster_D11_My8/730/
10:24 ashimema morning
10:25 fridolin _o/
10:29 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
10:30 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U21 build #71: FIXED in 1 hr 16 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_U21/71/
10:30 fridolin ouf ;)
10:30 ashimema nice one
10:30 fridolin left #koha
10:30 ashimema how are we today frido
10:30 alex_a_ joined #koha
10:35 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
10:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_CPAN build #515: FIXED in 1 hr 21 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_D11_CPAN/515/
10:38 ashimema sorry fridolin.. pilling more into your queue this morning between my meetings
10:49 Pascal joined #koha
10:51 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
10:51 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #512: FIXED in 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D10/512/
10:54 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
10:54 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D12 build #61: FIXED in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D12/61/
11:20 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
11:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_MDB_Latest build #774: FIXED in 59 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]1_MDB_Latest/774/
11:21 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master build #1892: STILL UNSTABLE in 46 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_Master/1892/
11:25 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #361: SUCCESS in 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_U_Stable/361/
11:31 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D12 build #62: SUCCESS in 1 hr 1 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D12/62/
11:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #285: SUCCESS in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U20/285/
12:03 oleonard joined #koha
12:08 oleonard o/
12:24 marion joined #koha
12:37 kidclamp \o
12:37 marcelr joined #koha
12:37 marcelr hi #koha
12:37 Joubu ~o~
12:38 kidclamp Joubu is dancing....or he is a bat
12:38 ashimema lol
12:38 marcelr hi kidclamp ashimema `
12:39 kidclamp hi marcelr
13:17 marie-luce joined #koha
13:17 marcelr @later tell oleonard left a question for you on bug 29458; please check?
13:17 huginn marcelr: The operation succeeded.
13:18 oleonard Hi marcelr
13:18 marcelr hi oleonard
13:18 * oleonard will look
13:18 marcelr thx
13:58 oleonard marcelr: That bug makes me wonder if we couldn't use an include file for the login form
13:59 marcelr ok
13:59 marcelr what i did was a first step in more consistency
13:59 oleonard That's not a criticism of your patches, I'm just wondering if you'd considered that
14:00 marcelr there are subtle differences
14:00 ashimema hi
14:00 marcelr especially for layout and so
14:00 oleonard Yeah might be too messy
14:02 oleonard Regarding the <br/>, you can wrap the submit button in <fieldset class="action"></fieldset> instead
14:02 marcelr would that result in same layout?
14:03 oleonard It creates a line break and adds some padding to the top of the element
14:03 marcelr ok i try that then
14:03 marcelr thx
14:10 Dyrcona joined #koha
14:11 khall joined #koha
14:12 oleonard Has anyone looked into changing how we handle the "samesite" attribute of cookies?
14:12 oleonard Firefox now warns about it in the console
14:13 oleonard Cookie “CGISESSID” has “SameSite” policy set to “Lax” because it is missing a “SameSite” attribute, and “SameSite=Lax” is the default value for this attribute.
14:16 oleonard I'm not entirely sure how the various settings relate to Koha's requirements.
14:16 oleonard[…]t-Cookie/SameSite
14:18 ashimema hmm.. I think there may be a security bug open about it.
14:19 marcelr are these warns not there for some time already ?
14:19 ashimema bug 26019
14:19 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=26019 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Koha should set SameSite attribute on cookies
14:19 ashimema contains discussion around i
14:19 oleonard Oh cool, I should have looked.
14:23 oleonard I'm running through the staff interface with jQuery Migrate enabled, so checking the console a lot. Eliminating unnecessary warnings would make it easier.
14:25 marcelr hmm i was in that discussion
14:34 oleonard Dev meeting shortly, eh?
14:34 ashimema yup
14:38 khall_ joined #koha
14:39 marcelr Was no mention on the list
14:39 alex_a_ joined #koha
14:40 ashimema hmm.. it's in the calendar
14:41 alex_a joined #koha
14:53 thd joined #koha
14:58 tuxayo meeting in 2min!
14:58 tuxayo qa_team?
14:58 tuxayo rmaints?
14:59 oleonard-away wahanui?
14:59 tuxayo :o
15:00 ashimema 🙂
15:01 tuxayo #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022
15:01 huginn Meeting started Wed Jan 19 15:01:31 2022 UTC.  The chair is tuxayo. Information about MeetBot at
15:01 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:01 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
15:01 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_19_january_2022'
15:01 tuxayo #topic Introductions
15:01 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
15:01 tuxayo rmaints?
15:02 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA
15:02 tuxayo i heard rmaints was khall, AndrewFH, wainui and tuxayo
15:02 tuxayo qa_team?
15:02 tuxayo well, qa_team is cait, joubu, tuxayo, marcelr, kidclamp, khall, tcohen, ashimema, nugged, kohaputti, petrova
15:02 tuxayo #info Victor Grousset, Tuxayo Group Holding Limited, France
15:02 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe, UK
15:02 nugged #info Andrew Nugged, National Library of Finland, HELSINKI
15:03 tuxayo Apologies from Fridolin: «Sorry, children sick at home. Feel free to postpone the points I have noted. Email me for any question. »
15:03 nugged 🍇 🫖 and 💪 for Fridolin!
15:04 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
15:04 tuxayo i'll relay ^^
15:05 tuxayo #topic Announcements
15:05 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
15:05 marcelr #info Marcel de Rooy
15:05 tuxayo Any announcement that doesn't fit in another topic?
15:05 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City, recent COVID capital, testing negative from last week and after effects of severe congestion, fatigue, etc. have greatly.  I do not recommend it but very contagious despite vaccination and other precautions.
15:05 oleonard There was a meeting yesterday of interested parties regarding a redesign of the staff interface
15:06 oleonard I will send a brief report to koha-devel today
15:06 ashimema oleonard++
15:06 ashimema I look forward to reading the report
15:06 tuxayo best wishes for remission thd
15:07 tuxayo great news oleonard
15:07 thd s/greatly/greatly diminished/
15:07 tuxayo #topic Update from the Release manager (22.05)
15:07 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release manager (22.05) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
15:08 tuxayo «How do we manage review of Bug 19532 Recalls ?»
15:08 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=19532 new feature, P1 - high, ---, aleisha, ASSIGNED , Recalls for Koha
15:08 marcelr we made plans for that already
15:09 marcelr in earlier dev meetings
15:09 marcelr i asked for more specific timing but got no specific replies
15:10 tuxayo In a previous meeting or in the ticket?
15:10 marcelr depends on what you exactly mean
15:11 tuxayo I missed the previous message. Ok about timing.
15:12 tuxayo @ Fridolin for later: The latest news are in the ticket. IIUC it's feature frozen and a rebase in needed to review and test as is.
15:12 huginn tuxayo: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
15:12 tuxayo can't use the at sign at all without huginn noticing ^^
15:13 * ashimema still struggles with recalls.. is it still nearly a clone of holds code from many years ago?
15:13 Joubu use later tell
15:14 marcelr ashimema: you are backtracking the discussion now?
15:14 ashimema ok.. I'll stay quiet
15:15 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
15:15 lukeg joined #koha
15:15 khall_ #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
15:15 tuxayo next point from Fridolin: « There are links to gitweb in[…]d/for-developers/ »
15:17 tuxayo I might have the right to edit this page where is the repo for documentation now?
15:17 oleonard That could be added as bug in Bugzilla
15:18 tuxayo Indeed
15:18 tuxayo #action tuxayo open ticket and update[…]d/for-developers/ with the URL of the current git repo (Gitea)
15:19 tuxayo next point from Fridolin: « Add new Bugzilla component for Koha as Mojo App ? »
15:19 Joubu No need to ticket + blabla too long for an update of the website
15:19 tuxayo Are there so many tickets about that an omnibus ticket doesn't do the trick?
15:19 Joubu ping me and I will do it
15:19 tuxayo ok
15:19 Joubu that seems easier for everybody
15:22 tuxayo #action tuxayo postpone «Add new Bugzilla component for Koha as Mojo App ?» and ask for more details
15:22 tuxayo #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
15:22 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
15:22 tuxayo rmaints?
15:22 tuxayo i heard rmaints was khall, AndrewFH, wainui and tuxayo
15:23 khall_ steady as she goes :)
15:23 tuxayo nothing to report about 20.11
15:23 tuxayo moving on then
15:23 tuxayo #topic Updates from the QA team
15:23 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
15:23 tuxayo qa_team?
15:24 tuxayo well, qa_team is cait, joubu, tuxayo, marcelr, kidclamp, khall, tcohen, ashimema, nugged, kohaputti, petrova
15:24 oleonard No cait1 at the moment?
15:24 ashimema I've been behind on QA so far this cycle personally.. other pressing commitments
15:24 ashimema but I am starting to pick up pace again now
15:24 marcelr ashimema++
15:25 ashimema we still need more hands.. for the small/trivial bugs there's still a serious lag.. many of them only take a couple of minutes to QA
15:25 ashimema grab it, check it, run the qa scripts..
15:25 ashimema if more people grabbed one of those a day we'd keep the queue numbers down.. and have more time to concentrate on the bigger things
15:26 cait1 oh yes sorry
15:27 cait1 what ashimema said
15:27 cait1 we need more hands and more QA time overall
15:27 Joubu yes, I am trying to send a short email with a list of easy bugs that should go asap
15:27 cait1 i'd love to see the average 'time in queue' reduced... but it won't be possible with more resources
15:27 Joubu will continue doing it for the next weeks and see if they get attention
15:28 ashimema I've done 12 QA's today.. in a half hour gap I had between meetings 😉
15:28 marcelr hmm
15:28 ashimema it's not impossible to keep on top of things.. there's just a disitnct lack of apetite
15:28 ashimema most of those were one line string fixes 😉
15:28 cait1 at the moment wefocus on the bad and ugly mostly
15:28 marcelr too fast qa's is just postponing trouble
15:28 ashimema I agree
15:28 thd :)
15:28 ashimema but typo and string fixes really do only take a few minutes
15:28 Joubu but having the list full of easy but ugly tiny things does not help to see what's exactly in the list
15:29 cait1 not talking about fast... but more time overall and prioritizing
15:29 ashimema exactly
15:29 cait1 so yes, if you have stuff waiting, consider to join the team ;)
15:29 ashimema if we can tackle those quickly.. it focuses the eye on the other one's more
15:29 cait1 i think doing QA 'right' also saves time in the long run
15:29 marcelr only focusing on small stuff, will not get the other ones in
15:30 cait1 bugs fixing issues missed also take time
15:30 cait1 I'd be ok if we mostly did a mix
15:30 cait1 if everyone grabbed the oldest in queue... and 1-3 easy ones constantly, we'd get stuff moving already
15:30 cait1 like strting with the worst/oldest everytime you get to do QA or at least try to
15:31 marcelr yeah some kind of balance
15:31 ashimema my point isn't to say "don't do the hard one".. it was to say.. if you have half an hour between meetings.. pick off a simple QA or two
15:31 cait1 yep
15:32 ashimema don't wait for yourself to have a multi-hour period you may never get so you can attack one hard one 😉
15:32 cait1 the balance... is the key, discussing it is a good step already
15:32 ashimema but yeah.. we just need more flow as a whole
15:32 cait1 maybe to add for the logs, we have also been talking to Aleisha about the recalls bug (marcelr++ aleisha*++) and hope to have that one moving soon
15:33 cait1 but overall... more resources would help a great deal
15:34 tuxayo #topic Status of roadmap projects
15:34 Topic for #koha is now Status of roadmap projects (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
15:35 Joubu roadmap?
15:35 tuxayo Is there actually an equivalent this cycle?
15:35 cait1 not sure, is frido around?
15:35 oleonard No
15:36 ashimema there was an intention.. but I don't know that it came to fruition
15:36 tuxayo There might a confusion, the old roadmap document has seed some edits this cycle ^^
15:36 tuxayo
15:36 oleonard "todo: Make a roadmap" :)
15:36 * ashimema really has dropped the ball on this cycle so far.. sorry peeps
15:36 cait1 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
15:37 marcelr Joubu asked for feedback in a mail on dev list
15:37 cait1 ashimema: it happens, we need to be able to deal with people having other projects and stuff
15:37 cait1 shoudl we postpone thre roadmap question and check in with frido on this?
15:37 thd I have fixed image directories missed from rsync when relocating files in the wiki.  I can concentrate for the hours required now without risking bronchitis.
15:37 cait1 or assume we'll move them to a new one
15:38 tuxayo #action tuxayo postpone roadmap topic and check in with frido on this
15:39 tuxayo #topic Actions from last meeting
15:39 Topic for #koha is now Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
15:40 tuxayo « fridolin announces timeframe extension (end of feb) and for this one allow proposals outside eligible continents, keeping priority to actual ones »
15:40 tuxayo done
15:41 marcelr thats kohacon?
15:41 tuxayo yes
15:42 tuxayo #action postpone or ask about the 2 other actions of fridolin. And
15:42 tuxayo « tuxayo check if xt/perltidyrc is used to see if we currently rely on it's values »
15:42 tuxayo it doesn't
15:43 tuxayo it doesn't influence the tests at all. So do we still need it?
15:43 ashimema interesting
15:43 cait1 if we don't need it... removing it seems logical
15:43 tuxayo After emptying it or removing or setting the max line lenght to 40 char no error pops
15:43 ashimema not doing anything.. lets get rid of it.
15:43 cait1 and if we don't enforce/use it either
15:44 marcelr just open a report on Bugzilla :)
15:44 tuxayo ok, who to open the ticket?
15:44 marcelr i dont know how
15:44 tuxayo #action tuxayo open a ticket about the removal of xt/perltidyrc which is not used
15:45 thd Was it ever used?
15:45 tuxayo maybe a long time ago
15:46 tuxayo «tuxayo postpone "Avoid formatting single words within sentences to ease translation (example: Bug 29589)" to wait for test results »
15:46 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=29589 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, Failed QA , Translation issue with formatting in MARC overlay rules page
15:46 tuxayo I suppose  it's about this https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]g.cgi?id=29589#c6
15:46 huginn Bug 29589: minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, Failed QA , Translation issue with formatting in MARC overlay rules page
15:47 tuxayo Anyone has seen the new ticket ?
15:48 Joubu bug 29853
15:48 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=29853 normal, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Needs Signoff , Text needs HTML filter before KohaSpan filter
15:48 Joubu I guess
15:48 ashimema not one I've looked at yet
15:48 tuxayo thank for the find Joubu, so done
15:48 tuxayo « tuxayo Update coding guideline JS5 to removed everything from DEPRECATED to the end of JS5. »
15:48 tuxayo donne
15:49 tuxayo #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
15:49 Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
15:49 tuxayo « LTS discussion »
15:49 tuxayo Shall we postpone for when fridolin is there and we have more time?
15:50 ashimema yup
15:50 marcelr postponing++
15:50 Joubu what's the discussion about?
15:50 Joubu we postponed it 3 times already
15:50 thd LTS
15:50 ashimema true
15:50 marcelr thats tells you something at least
15:50 cait1 i think we need to agreeon the time we support
15:51 cait1 and maybe discuss about regularly dropping rleeases in between
15:51 ashimema to have some formal idea of what our LTS support means
15:51 Joubu it's LTS maintainer to decide
15:51 cait1 and.. write it down somewhere
15:51 tuxayo yes, do we start a formal LTS and advertise it
15:51 Joubu or someone somewhere to decide they will have someone to deal with that
15:51 * nugged going behind the talk but ...
15:51 nugged > removal of xt/perltidyrc which is not used
15:51 nugged but do we have some recommended perltidyrc which is "proper-iest" one?
15:51 Joubu so a support company
15:51 cait1 an LTS doesn't work wihtout a "promise" of support time
15:51 ashimema how long, how many versions should we actually be supporting.. should we drop some versions and take up a rolling version
15:51 Joubu it's not our job to do that, what if we decide 4 years and next year nobody is willing to support it?
15:52 marcelr we dont have the people to do it
15:52 cait1 well then we can't have an LTS at all
15:52 ashimema something being called LTS means as a community we have committed
15:52 ashimema we need to know what LTS actually means and publish that
15:52 cait1 I agree
15:52 thd ashimema++
15:52 Joubu drop rangi an email then
15:54 tuxayo > what if we decide 4 years and next year nobody is willing to support it?
15:54 tuxayo We can be confident to always have 3 RMaints and that would mean oldoldstable could be dropped when a 4th RMaint isn't found. This seems a doable promise in general.
15:54 cait1 yes, it would have to take priority
15:54 ashimema personally.. I think we're an already rather stretched team of people ;).. I'd love to see us drop some support and move to a more fluid model for some support
15:54 marcelr just stick to 3 versions ?
15:54 ashimema but also.. if we say we'll do LTS.. what goes into decided that a particular version becomes the next LTS?
15:55 cait1 I was wondering that too
15:55 cait1 after 19.11... what woudl be the next one to become an LTS release
15:55 marcelr 20.11
15:55 cait1 i think we were talking about 2-3 years last time
15:55 cait1 supporting
15:55 cait1 marcelr: can you explain?
15:55 Joubu it should be 3y minimum
15:55 marcelr it is a good release :)
15:55 ashimema[…]release-schedule/ will need updating
15:55 tuxayo > just stick to 3 versions ?
15:55 tuxayo Worst case. In the exemple workflow that would be very similar to the current one
15:56 marcelr i think that we want too much
15:56 Joubu it's actually easier than suporting 3 versions
15:57 Joubu we just need to support an old version for those who does not care abotu the new features
15:57 Joubu and to provide them security backport
15:57 Joubu it's the main purpose, security patches
15:57 cait1 yes
15:57 marcelr thats just additional work on top of 3 versions
15:57 cait1 and that's the way we should do it
15:57 tuxayo So it would be stable and LTS so 2.
15:57 cait1 i think that's why ashimema was suggesting to drop one
15:58 ashimema exactly
15:58 cait1 or drop oldoldstable?
15:58 cait1 same versions than now... but bigger gap
15:58 * ashimema would actually like LTS, Stable and Rolling.. as the three
15:58 tuxayo In this case we would drop oldoldstable and oldstable IIUC
15:58 ashimema with rolling meaning a feature release every month
15:58 tuxayo > LTS, Stable and Rolling.. as the three
15:58 tuxayo That could work very well
15:58 ashimema and stable meaning feature stable for 6 months..
15:58 thd marcelr: Are you really saying that there is a need for the 3 versions in any case because of supporting customers or something?
15:59 ashimema so more of a drop oldstable and oldoldstable
15:59 cait1 i think maybe smaller steps... establish LTS first
15:59 cait1 let the others run out slowly...
15:59 cait1 and maybe do an oldstable
15:59 cait1 people need to jump on LTS first too
15:59 ashimema or stable becomes a 1 year rather than 6 month feature cadence
16:00 ashimema the point is to reduce the number of rmaints required
16:00 ashimema and generally try to make our 'dev' branch more stable to begin with for rolling
16:00 tuxayo > or stable becomes a 1 year rather than 6 month feature cadence
16:00 tuxayo ++ that's a possibility
16:00 cait1 i am not sure we can do more stable
16:00 cait1 there will always be big patches with possible side effects
16:00 cait1 and communitcating those riskier releases seems a nightmare
16:01 cait1 it might also be confusing to libraries to have even more releases and release notes to check
16:01 marcelr when 21.11 came out, i went to 20.11
16:01 marcelr so that would not be possible anymore already
16:01 cait1 yes, I think we need to think about the implications for people on different versions now
16:01 ashimema yup
16:02 ashimema all this stuff needs formalising and discussing... just suddently saying we're having an LTS overnight was the problem in my book
16:02 cait1 I think it's good to have a fact and then we can work from there .)
16:02 cait1 but we have only talked about it here... nothing writen up etc
16:02 cait1 we need to now do that
16:03 ashimema yup.. so first step is to just document what we mean by LTS and make it a community commitment
16:03 tuxayo > just suddently saying we're having an LTS overnight
16:03 tuxayo 19.11 it's just a version with long support. There was never a promise for support time so there is no issue
16:04 tuxayo And can we know in advance if an LTS will be followed enough to be worth it?
16:04 cait1 ok - what about... we start an lts wiki page
16:04 tuxayo Are many instances doing minor upgrades?
16:04 cait1 add the queestions and our answers and go from there next time?
16:04 tuxayo
16:04 tuxayo There are some instances that are on the latests 20.05.x and 19.11.x so it would benefit them to have a long support. Which it the case for 19.11.x
16:04 tuxayo But it's dwarfed by a factor of 15 for 20.05.x and more than 30 for 19.11.x by the instances on versions older than the last 3.
16:04 cait1 tuxayo: we would only do it when necessary (bad bug fixed) but can't tell about others
16:04 thd What would the mechanism be to ensure support?  Ensure that someone would be available for maintenance for the duration of the period?
16:05 cait1 I don't think it needs to be for the whole duration, others can take over
16:05 ashimema I'd be interested to see if there are any stats from the deb repos that could give us an idea of how many people actually track the verious releases and don't pin.
16:05 cait1 we alrady do that curently
16:05 marcelr tuxayo hea figures? if so, be careful with older numbers
16:05 ashimema right now we kinda pressurise people into taking on the existing rmaint roles
16:06 tuxayo cait1: I'm not worried about provider involved in the community.
16:06 ashimema it's a given they're needed
16:06 ashimema so people step in
16:06 tuxayo thd: «  Ensure that someone would be available for maintenance for the duration of the period?» If we have a workflow that works with 3 RMaints we shouldn't have an issue
16:07 cait1 yes, keeping it at 3 versions shoudl work, we'd just have a wider gap between lts and others
16:07 cait1 I don't think we'll come to results today
16:08 tuxayo marcelr: I don't why I didn't look 20.11. But for 21.05 it's too recent to see if people upgrade it. Since it was the latest version not long ago
16:08 ashimema indeed
16:09 marcelr just warning because older data is not removed at fixed time
16:10 tuxayo When an instance sent again data, it replace the old one right?
16:10 tuxayo There is an ID for each Koha
16:10 marcelr i guess, but when they leave, the records stays
16:10 marcelr so the picture is not clear anymore
16:10 thd I presume there would be people for maintenance as long as support companies have sufficient demand for such a version which depends significantly on what libraries actually want.
16:11 tuxayo > i guess, but when they leave, the records stays
16:11 tuxayo Indeed, but that should only blur thing for older releases right?
16:13 marcelr well we got out of scope a bit
16:13 ashimema it's not just rmaint burden either.. I've often found myself having to write patches for multiple versions.. sometimes they differ rally quite a lot.. the less parallel versions we support the more reliable we can get I feel
16:13 ashimema but yeah.. lets move on.
16:14 tuxayo What's the next step to plan about the topic?
16:14 marcelr a proposal on the wiki?
16:14 tuxayo So it doesn't stay in limbo
16:14 cait1 +1
16:15 tuxayo Who to draft one or several workflow proposals on the wiki?
16:15 tuxayo I can participate
16:16 thd ashimema writes a definition of LTS along which includes a path from some current or forthcoming release.
16:17 ashimema I can try to knock something together.. or at least ask rangi or someone what their intentions were
16:18 cait1 i thik we just need a starting point
16:18 ashimema I think, as a company, we're unlikely to actually use the LTS notion.. customers aren't keen on software that ages that much
16:18 cait1 once you start writing it gets a little easier
16:18 ashimema ok.. i'll draft something
16:18 thd ashimema: If customers are not keen, how will it really be supported properly?
16:19 cait1 i think thre are just different use cases
16:19 tuxayo There are multiple involved actor here
16:19 cait1 a self supported library might be keen on an LTS
16:19 ashimema well ptfs-e is unlikely to be lending a hand.. doesn't mean other companies may not take a different stance/cadence
16:19 cait1 or more i think they will be
16:19 ashimema indeed
16:19 cait1 and we will probably consider it at least
16:19 reiveune bye
16:19 reiveune left #koha
16:20 ashimema yup.. there are certainly people out there
16:20 ashimema we generally have been trying to move to annual feature upgrades
16:20 thd I understand the rationale for the self supported, but they need strong advocacy.
16:21 cait1 we know they are there... and for smaller support proivders it cuold also well be an option
16:21 ashimema so an LTS of 3 years or something wouldn't sit well with customers.. many already don't like having to wait for their sponsored features
16:21 cait1 it really depends on your environment, resources etc.
16:21 ashimema indeed
16:21 ashimema I'm totally not against it
16:21 cait1 not toally? ;)
16:21 ashimema lol
16:21 ashimema right.. moving on..
16:21 cait1 it is a chance to talk about how we do things too of course
16:22 ashimema what's next tuxayo?
16:22 tuxayo >  there are certainly people out there
16:22 tuxayo Yes, like Catalyst that support 19.11 even if they aren't using it and I support oldoldstable without providing it too. So no worries as long as it requires 3 RMaint
16:22 tuxayo #action ashimema drafts an LTS proposal. (tuxayo can help!)
16:22 tuxayo #topic  Set time of next meeting
16:22 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022)
16:23 tuxayo It would be the 2 february then
16:24 tuxayo same time I supose
16:24 ashimema lol.. I started to try and get a discussion going about this in 2019: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]Versioning_-_Next
16:25 tuxayo lol
16:25 tuxayo #info Next meeting: 2 February 2022, 15:00 UTC
16:25 tuxayo #endmeeting
16:25 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
16:25 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jan 19 16:25:22 2022 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
16:25 huginn Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-01-19-15.01.html
16:25 huginn Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-communit[…]2-01-19-15.01.txt
16:25 huginn Log:            https://meetings.koha-communit[…]19-15.01.log.html
16:25 oleonard tuxayo++
16:25 tuxayo thanks all for sticking for so long
16:25 ashimema tuxayo++
16:26 thd Stay safe everyone.
16:26 oleonard Thanks for chairing tuxayo
16:26 cait1 tuxayo++
16:26 cait1 bye all
16:27 tuxayo ashimema: LTS and rolling was already there!
16:28 ashimema indeed
16:28 ashimema it's been an idea that's been mulling around for years
16:33 thd Do not believe that "some mild symptoms" with a small risk of extra badness is the only problem with what the world is trying to avoid.  I felt worst of all after testing negative again after a few days of feeling somewhat better.  Overactive immune response and consequent problems is really best avoided.
16:36 thd Continuing to wipe down shared keyboards is probably a good idea along with keeping further away from everyone who breathes even with masks.
16:44 * thd has to go in to work today off schedule.  The source of all infection for me.  At least, now I am probably highly immune to recurrence for a little while.
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21:28 Kate joined #koha
21:28 Kate Hello All,
21:29 Kate I have tried to find a report for gathering records with duplicate EAN rather than ISBNs, but no luck. Does anyone know of a link to one? Thanks!
21:37 Kate IDENTIFY
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29889: Incorrect library check in patron message deletion logic <[…]3a1ca35af9ad5f9c0>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 11750: (QA follow-up) Remove unconditional warn <[…]388aa5509db454ef4>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29806: (follow-up) Call ->as_list for ->pickup_locations on <[…]d724858e6425b7722>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29806: Fix POST /holds use of pickup_locations <[…]cd0f8f7029575b9fc>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29806: Regression tests <[…]d75f12ae9136c7e68>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29806: Call ->as_list for ->pickup_locations on <[…]23c25a96018bf368d>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29807: Make Branches plugin handle empty pickup locations list <[…]afaacb9803e9b9740>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29807: Regression tests <[…]8b60e3a9d4e142e9d>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18320: Remove calls to CGI->param from the templates in patron cards <[…]3b3c00d58d68a347e>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29764: Fix incorrect EmbedItems RecordProcessor filter POD <[…]3dc2fb9cf99ef7054>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 11750: Hide patron's attributes on overdue list if needed <[…]7f39e82dc278d897d>
22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18320: Remove patroncards/ warnings <[…]11aff68e4994f4275>
22:52 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_CPAN build #516: SUCCESS in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_D11_CPAN/516/
22:59 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #731: SUCCESS in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ster_D11_My8/731/
23:06 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master build #1893: STILL UNSTABLE in 47 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_Master/1893/
23:09 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #286: SUCCESS in 50 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U20/286/
23:12 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D12 build #63: FAILURE in 2 min 56 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D12/63/
23:17 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #362: SUCCESS in 1 hr 0 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_U_Stable/362/
23:22 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U21 build #72: SUCCESS in 1 hr 4 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_U21/72/
23:30 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #1858: SUCCESS in 38 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D9/1858/
23:39 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #513: SUCCESS in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D10/513/
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