IRC log for #koha, 2021-03-10

All times shown according to UTC.

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04:04 zjmarlow Hello.  Is there someone here who is familiar with installing on debian?  I did a git clone and made it through make install okay but at the koha-create step I get "Koha instance is empty, no staff user created."  Checking the database shows it is empty (no tables).  Is there supposed to be a file I pass with --defaultsql to koha-create?
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07:34 paxed i haven't checked the recent(ish) versions, but is there a way for staff to move issues.date_due and/or reserves.expirationdate without doing sql? needed occasionally when a library forgets to set closed dates for holidays or whatever ... :P
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07:37 reiveune hello
07:37 wahanui hello, reiveune
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07:44 alex_a Bonjour
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07:45 fridolin hi
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08:00 magnuse \o/
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08:24 cait1 caroline: can we talk about spaces? :)
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08:35 ashimema mornin
08:36 ashimema hi cait1
08:36 ashimema back to work today?
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09:00 der_smon hi! is the batch record deletion still in beta or something like that? because it is left out of the documentation (i can only find item deletion docs)
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09:08 davidnind der_smon: see[…]h-record-deletion
09:11 der_smon davidnind: thx :)
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09:16 nlegrand Bonjour !
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10:22 tcohen bonjour!
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13:05 Joubu kidclamp: thanks for the benchmark on bug 5697! So shouldn't we drop the last patch then?
13:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5697 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Automatic linking in guided reports
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13:06 Joubu It's sad because the code is (imo) much better like that
13:07 Joubu but if it adds 30sec for 2k results I don't think it's acceptable
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13:54 caroline cait1: spaces?
13:54 wahanui spaces are breaking spaces
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13:56 * ashimema reads code for bug 5697
13:56 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5697 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Automatic linking in guided reports
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13:58 ashimema I wonder if we could shift the load to the server?
13:58 ashimema i.e. build the links in the template with a hidden class on load and only use JS to hide/show them
13:58 ashimema rather than dynamically adding them to the DOM via JS
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14:07 * cait1 glares at kidclamp
14:07 ashimema ?
14:07 cait1 broke fines
14:07 kidclamp
14:07 cait1 yep you did for us
14:07 ashimema oooh.. it wasn't me?
14:08 kidclamp I changed fines
14:08 cait1 just taking discussion here as it's easier
14:08 kidclamp :-)
14:08 cait1 for our use case which is mostly weekly fines, we can't charge when the library is closed
14:08 cait1 we need to send the notices the same day the fine accrues
14:08 cait1 meddling with the holidays breaks all that carefully configured things
14:09 cait1 and we don't want to send on days the library is closed before you ask
14:09 ashimema ooh.. we liked that change here
14:09 cait1 well we don't
14:09 cait1 and it was totally falsely advertised
14:09 cait1 the bugs reads... when finescalendar is set to ignore
14:09 cait1 but it affects when the finescalendar is used
14:09 * ashimema is confused
14:10 cait1 and the tst plan read:
14:10 cait1 10 - set finesCalendar to 'use' 11 - checkout an item, due yesterday 12 - run 13 - no fine assessed
14:10 cait1 so... now it does assess
14:10 cait1 so don't tell me it was intended - something is wrong here :)
14:11 * ashimema has a cat that really doesn't want to let me read your messages today..  he's sat on my desk chasing the mouse around the screen
14:11 cait1 hehe :)
14:11 ashimema bug number cait
14:11 cait1 probably because i sound grumpy
14:11 cait1 bug 27180
14:11 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27180 normal, P5 - low, ---, nick, RESOLVED FIXED, Fines cronjob does not update fines on holidays when finesCalendar is set to ignore
14:11 cait1 and bug 27835
14:11 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27835 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Closed days offsets with one day
14:12 cait1 I had too many morning meetings...
14:12 kidclamp Do you want a switch then? to decide if the cron runs or not?
14:13 kidclamp Logically I will argue they are the same - book due on Friday - returned on Saturday whether open or not, you didn't return on time and should be charged
14:14 cait1 as I said, we need to time the notices for our use case
14:14 cait1 and people here would ge tupset charged on days they could not return the item
14:14 cait1 it's just a different expectation
14:15 cait1 but it's the same expectation for all our libraries charging fines... so I'd really need the regression for us fixed
14:15 cait1 this is a behavior change backported far into stables
14:15 ashimema i agree kidc      lamp
14:15 cait1 and the library reporting didn't like it etiher
14:15 Joubu we could enqueue the letter but delay the sending
14:16 ashimema darn cat is now attacking my typing hand
14:16 cait1 Joubu: no please
14:16 cait1 print notices also need to be processed
14:16 cait1 i really need them to be dated the same
14:16 cait1 as before
14:16 cait1 no workarounds
14:17 kidclamp you should blame the person who QAed the bug ;-)
14:17 ashimema so you send a notice every and any time a fine is incremented?
14:17 cait1 i do
14:17 cait1 me
14:17 cait1 but your tet plan was wrong
14:17 cait1 and the description was wrong too
14:17 cait1 so i blame you too
14:17 kidclamp but you said it worked ;-)
14:17 cait1 i trusted you too much
14:17 ashimema lol
14:18 ashimema I said it was right too ;)
14:18 cait1 yeah, but did you actually check the second test case?
14:18 cait1 like... in the gui?
14:18 cait1 I obviously didn't and yep, i am guilty
14:19 cait1 actually... what the bug says would b right - if the calendar is ignored, you need to charge on closing days
14:19 cait1 but why do we need to charge on days the library was not closed?
14:19 cait1 um
14:20 cait1 why do we charge when the claendar is used on days the library is closed (is what i meant)
14:20 cait1 can we solve your original issue differently?
14:20 cait1 so we don't need another switch that can go wrong
14:28 ashimema I'm confused
14:28 caroline cait1: you wanted to talk about spaces? or are you too busy with the fines thing?
14:29 ashimema so your saying you want to charge on closed days.. but pretend like you don't until you do...
14:30 ashimema should there be a setting to say whether you support doing dropbox type returns ever or not
14:30 Joubu ¡dev meeting in 30!
14:30 ashimema if oyu do, then you hide that fact they might have been charged because they might also have returned the box in a dropbox
14:31 ashimema mm.. I'm in company meeting now.. but will try to multi-task for the dev meeting
14:31 cait1 caroline: just wondering because I saw a lot of .spacespace at the endof sentences in translation suddenly
14:31 cait1 the old text/manual doesn't have these
14:31 caroline it's an old way of typing
14:31 cait1 ashimema: no, i want no charges on closed days ever
14:32 tuxayo meeting in 30min!
14:32 kidclamp days_between calculates as '1' when startdate is yesterday and enddate is today and today is a holiday - we could it subtract 1 if enddate is a holiday (we do subtract 1 if startdate is a holiday)
14:33 cait1 if we calculate opening days that would make sense to me
14:33 cait1 on first glance
14:33 cait1 but days_between is a global thing? i mean would it effect other things or are we still in
14:33 kidclamp but we should only do that if finescalendar, and yes, we hsould probably do it on the return in CalcFine
14:35 cait1 that sounds like it would work
14:35 cait1 in the past the skipped... and usually no returns where taking place on closed days, but it makes more sense to have it where the fine i calculated actually
14:36 kidclamp # start and end should not be closed days - days betwen has that too
14:38 kidclamp question though - book due friday - we are closed saturday, but book returned saturday- should there be a charge?
14:38 kidclamp because you didn't return on friday
14:39 ashimema there's loads of tests written for that area of code I believe... Joubu and I worked through it allot fairly recently
14:41 kidclamp kk, will submit something for review shortly
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14:48 cait1 no
14:49 cait1 kidclamp: due date is usually friday 23:59
14:49 cait1 and then the next day is closed
14:49 cait1 so yu are not actually late before sunsay morning (if the library is open then)
14:49 kidclamp but you are, you returned it after it was due
14:50 cait1 if you return on saturday
14:50 kidclamp there is no scenario in which you return it before friday at 23:59
14:50 cait1 yo used a bookbox i assume?
14:50 cait1 so the date wuld be backdated to friday
14:50 cait1 it would be as IF you retunred it on freiday
14:50 kidclamp and wouldn't be charged
14:50 cait1 yep
14:50 kidclamp but if you didn't dropbox I mean
14:50 cait1 the old behavior was to not charge
14:51 cait1 and i stand with that :)
14:51 cait1 here we expect the charge on the next opening day
14:51 tuxayo Meeting in 10!
14:51 cait1 the is usually run before the library opens, then it's charged
14:51 cait1 letters and emails are processed
14:52 kidclamp with calcfineonreturn you would have been charged
14:52 cait1 hmm
14:52 kidclamp these are edge cases, not (entirely) trying to  aggravate you :-P
14:52 cait1 we don't use that actually so there was always a mismatch in behaviour
14:52 cait1 but we didn't notice
14:53 cait1 i think because daily fines are not really a thing here
14:53 cait1 we only have a very few doing that for overnights
14:54 cait1 the standard use case here is always a weekly increase
14:54 cait1 with a grace period that can differ
14:54 cait1 many years ago it was mandatory for the libraries to charge that way, so that's why we have that here i think
14:56 cait1 and overdue notices going out the same day as the fine is applied
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14:59 Joubu gmcharlt: can you add '2021' to the header please?
14:59 Joubu #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021
14:59 huginn Meeting started Wed Mar 10 14:59:49 2021 UTC.  The chair is Joubu. Information about MeetBot at
14:59 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:59 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
14:59 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_10_march_2021'
14:59 Joubu qa_team?
14:59 wahanui qa_team is cait, dcook, amoyano, ashimema, marcelr, kohaputti, jajm, tcohen, josef_moravec, kidclamp, khall and tuxayo
14:59 Joubu rmaints?
14:59 wahanui rmaints is fridolin, AndrewFH and tuxayo
15:00 Joubu #topic Introductions
15:00 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:00 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
15:00 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
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15:00 tuxayo #info tuxayo/Victor Grousset, France
15:00 Joubu #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ing_10_March_2021
15:00 AndrewFH #info Andrew Fuerste-Henry, ByWater Solutions
15:01 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
15:02 Joubu cait1, tcohen, ashimema?
15:02 fridolin #info Fridolin, Biblibre, France
15:02 Joubu #topic Announcements
15:02 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:02 Joubu Anyone have something?
15:02 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
15:02 Joubu I have, but will keep them for the 'update from RM' topic
15:03 ashimema Apologies, juggling two meetings right now
15:03 Joubu this one is more important, ashimema :D
15:03 ashimema #info PTFS Europe sandboxes now support installation of German, French, Spanish, Greek and Dutch translations.
15:03 fridolin ++
15:03 tuxayo yay!*
15:03 ashimema will poke bywater to grab the patches for theirs too
15:04 ashimema no other anouncements I can think of
15:04 Joubu #topic Update from the Release Manager (21.05)
15:04 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release Manager (21.05) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:04 Joubu I will be fast, send "!" if you want me to stop
15:04 Joubu #info There is now a --run-tests option to the QA script to run the tests modified by the patchset
15:05 Joubu Some changes on the CI:
15:05 ashimema Joubu++
15:05 Joubu #info we now have a new docker_7 node
15:05 tuxayo QA, CI: nice!
15:05 cait1 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
15:05 Joubu #info There is a "light test suite" that is run by Jenkins for most of the job (apart from D10) - checkout for more info
15:06 Joubu * Great cleanup on the YAML module, we are now only using YAML::XS everywhere (see bug 27673 and bug 22824).
15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27673 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Replace YAML with YAML::XS
15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=22824 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Replace YAML::Syck with YAML::XS
15:06 Joubu It impacts how boolean sysprefs are read/written as we are getting rid of the (incorrect) ImplicitTyping behaviours.
15:06 Joubu * Bug 27829
15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27829 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [OMNIBUS] Remove specific LANG installer data
15:06 Joubu There are patches on bug 27621, bug 27623, bug 27624, and bug 27625. But others will need to be removed/adjusted.
15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27621 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Remove it-IT installer data
15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27623 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Remove pl-PL installer data
15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27624 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Remove ru-RU installer data
15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27625 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Remove uk-UA installer data
15:06 Joubu If you are using fr-FR, fr-CA or nb-NO, you should go ahead and help the move to the new system.
15:06 Joubu A goal would be to have them ALL removed for 21.11
15:06 Joubu You will certainly do it better than me as it needs mediculous work and good knowledge of the different files (which I don't have).
15:07 tuxayo !
15:07 Joubu I will propose to abandon and deprecate the remaining languages for the 21.11 dev cycle (ie. no more changes to specific language files, that may broke the installer).
15:07 tuxayo > A goal would be to have them ALL
15:07 tuxayo Are there for all languages?
15:07 ashimema nice one
15:07 cait1 Joubu: we have known issues with different item config in the UNIMARC setups... so that will be harder. And UNIMARC is not on Pootle yet.
15:07 Joubu yes, that's part of the 'plan' (which does not exist yet)
15:07 cait1 tuxayo: they can be in the future, but not now. the new system will make it mouch more less technical to add any language we want
15:07 Joubu we will have to work on the UNIMARC setup
15:07 Joubu maybe we should pick the one from fr-FR?
15:08 cait1 i have been thinking about that
15:08 tuxayo So all language need to have those installer files removed?
15:08 cait1 i think we need to keep an eye on the biblionumber link and the item mappings especially
15:08 cait1 it's much less standardized for UNIMARC, but it would be a chance to consolidate
15:08 cait1 tuxayo: yes, we are removing the language specific sql files as a goal
15:09 tuxayo ok thanks
15:09 cait1 tuxayo: so if you want sample data in your language, you can tanslate them on pootle and they will be generated from yaml files and the po
15:09 cait1 which also means that when adding a new notice you will only have to change the yml file in the future
15:09 Joubu we will need help from BibLibre for sure, and French users (at least)
15:09 cait1 instead of changing all the installer file
15:09 cait1 s
15:09 Joubu maybe also ping other UNIMARC users
15:09 ashimema we need a hackfest
15:09 ashimema best time to get biblibre onboard ;)
15:09 cait1 toot rue
15:10 Joubu fridolin: ^
15:10 Joubu keep that in mind, I will catch you soon ;)
15:10 * fridolin i'm cool nothing realy different
15:10 Joubu fr-FR is a mess :D
15:10 fridolin ah ouch yep
15:11 fridolin i'll see with nlegrand
15:11 ashimema fridolin++
15:11 Joubu moving on?
15:11 cait1 yes
15:11 Joubu * bug 25078 - I still wish to see more discussion on that one. Does everybody agree with the last comments between jajm and me?
15:11 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=25078 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , Update DB process - wrap each DBRev inside a transaction and better error handling
15:11 fridolin ahhh installer ok
15:12 Joubu then I have update for the roadmap, in a couple of minutes
15:12 ashimema I agree
15:12 Joubu #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
15:12 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:12 ashimema keep this patch small and simple (just transactions and reporting back more nicely)
15:13 ashimema and move the idea's about splitting it up into files and handling versioning differently into the other bug
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15:13 tuxayo RMaint: nothing in particular to say
15:13 Joubu ashimema: I will try to split them on that one, to avoid having to deal with the each dbrev twice
15:14 ashimema brill :)
15:14 ashimema I'd love ot see the AV translations stuff move forward too.. but not sure how to unstick it.
15:14 Joubu RMaints, use the move atomic update from bug 27903, it's awesome and easy to use )
15:14 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27903 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , Script to move atomic updates to
15:14 ashimema sorry.. RMaint updates
15:14 ashimema RMaints?
15:14 wahanui RMaints is fridolin, AndrewFH and tuxayo
15:15 AndrewFH Nothing of import from me, thanks :)
15:15 Joubu #topic Updates from the QA team
15:15 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:15 ashimema #info More QA needed... always more QA needed :P
15:16 ashimema cait?
15:16 wahanui cait is really good at running into things
15:16 Joubu spread the load!
15:16 ashimema indeed
15:16 tuxayo > running into things
15:16 tuxayo Me too T_T
15:17 Joubu ok
15:18 Joubu #info Status of roadmap projects
15:18 Joubu #link
15:18 Joubu same, '!' to stop me
15:18 cait1 spread the load - and please QA :)
15:18 cait1 and don't break stuff!
15:18 cait1 sorry to be late
15:18 Joubu bug 15278
15:18 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=15278 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, NEW , Port default slips and notices from bespoke syntax to Template Toolkit
15:18 Joubu Started too late and won't be part of 21.05.
15:18 Joubu postponed to 21.11
15:18 cait1 will you mark it accordingly?
15:18 Joubu bug 24975
15:18 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=24975 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, In Discussion , Refactor database translations
15:18 Joubu No real focus on it, won't certainly be ready for 21.05
15:18 Joubu yes cait1
15:18 Joubu ashimema: ?
15:19 Joubu we discussed it (jajm, ashimema and me)
15:19 Joubu it took too long to start and I'm afraid we won't have time to finish (even start..) for 21.05
15:19 Joubu we are still disagreeing on how we should implemen tit
15:19 cait1 sad, but i can see that
15:19 cait1 can we give it a prio boost for 21.11?
15:20 Joubu can try
15:20 ashimema sorry.. had to talk in my other meeting
15:20 ashimema reading ujp
15:20 Joubu * Transfer improvement
15:21 Joubu bug 22569 has been pushed, the next on the list are bug 27281 and bug 27896
15:21 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=22569 new feature, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Passed QA , Add a 'Transfers to send' report
15:21 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27281 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Needs Signoff , Replace call to `C4::Circulation::DeleteTransfer` with `Koha::Item::Transfer->cancel({ comment => $comment })` in `C4::Circulation::LostItem`
15:21 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27896 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Needs Signoff , Remove C4::Circulation::DeleteTransfer
15:21 Joubu it is moving fast
15:21 ashimema I am working slowly through bits of notices stuff.. but they're not directly related.. more things that i felt need fixing first.
15:21 Joubu ha 22569 is not pushed actually
15:22 ashimema yeah.. 33569 is PQA but not pushed yet ;)
15:22 Joubu will be soon
15:22 cait1 I hope to spend more time with tarnsfers
15:22 cait1 I tried to also work on the checkin checks for branch transfers... but got lost
15:22 ashimema the other two are the next two.. I don't want to end up with such a big tree of outstanding for phase 2
15:22 cait1 commented and waiting for feedback
15:22 ashimema so I'll code and submit.. then wait for SO/QA rather than continuing with the next bugs.
15:23 ashimema where did you comment cait1.. was it aimed at me.. I tihnk I must have missed it
15:23 cait1 ashimema: not on yours, arthur's
15:23 ashimema :)
15:23 Joubu * Performance investigation (compare 20.11 and 17.11)
15:24 Joubu The main work here is bug 27344, which needs more attention as it's an important bit. It would be nice to have another dev involved to get additional points of view.
15:24 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27344 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , Implement Elastic's update_index_background using Koha::BackgroundJob
15:24 Joubu * Git repository shrinking
15:24 Joubu I've started it, but I am stuck. I will send Martin an email soon to discuss it.
15:24 ashimema Agreed, would be good to get more eyes on performance
15:24 Joubu Git gurus are welcome to join the party!
15:24 ashimema I have been meaning to help work on some task queue patches to help that move.. jsut haven't found a moment.
15:24 ashimema happy to help where I can Joubu
15:25 ashimema more git guru's would be great
15:25 Joubu and *when*
15:25 Joubu * Release tools improvement
15:25 Joubu Still planned for a bit later in the cycle
15:25 Joubu * Improve our "news" module
15:25 ashimema +1
15:25 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
15:25 Joubu Signoff is needed here, please? bug 22544
15:25 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=22544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Move C4:NewsChannels to Koha namespace
15:25 Joubu This is only the first step and there are interesting changes to implement here, but we need this first step in!
15:26 ashimema I'll grab it for SO or QA.. anyone here want to volunteer for the one I don't do?
15:26 Joubu Josef disappeared so it's ashimema and cait1
15:26 cait1 ok
15:26 cait1 sounds doable,b ut not quite sure when, I will try
15:26 ashimema will look at it this week.. maybe even after this meeting
15:26 cait1 not unhappy if someone beeats me to it
15:27 Joubu * Fix OPACHiddenItems - Bug 24403
15:27 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=24403 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [OMNIBUS] OpacHiddenItems should hide items everywhere in the OPAC
15:27 Joubu It has moved quickly then is a bit stuck right now. There is no trivial changes to implement, like adding the "hidden at the OPAC" info to the search engine index.
15:27 Joubu tcohen: something to add?
15:28 Joubu * Handling of errors 500 (it's actually "better handling of error pages")
15:28 ashimema I'd like to join a task force on that one.. but perhaps it's one to get back to for 21.11 ?
15:28 ashimema hidden that is..
15:28 cait1 there are some spots independent of zebra/elastic that we could still fix i think, but there are API questions as well
15:28 cait1 thinking of the top issues that are built from an sql query for an example
15:30 cait1 also talking about hidden items actually :)
15:30 Joubu top issues look like a tricky one
15:31 Joubu we need a plan for this one in order to know where we are going and what's left (asking that for a couple of months)
15:31 Joubu ok so
15:31 Joubu * Handling of errors 500 (it's actually "better handling of error pages")
15:31 Joubu There are 3 bugs that are waiting for patches. David abandonned the ship and let me alone on this one.
15:31 Joubu I will try to find some time and submit patches. Will be good to have a tester and/or QA along with me (at least for motivation)
15:31 Joubu * Developer handbook and documentation
15:31 Joubu Abandonned for 21.05. There is no real desire (or at least to make some time) to work on it
15:32 cait1 I think last discussine nded with the idea of maybe restarting the wiki
15:32 Joubu (that's not nice but that's true heh)
15:32 cait1 i think the clena up woul be a lot easier if we had the categories and such better working again
15:32 cait1 the old mediawiki is no fun and makes it probably harder for us than it needs to be
15:32 ashimema agreed
15:33 cait1 we coudl mark pages oudated, needing work etc and bult up some process there
15:33 ashimema I don't really have the brain space for it right now.. fighting with the wiki just adds to that
15:33 Joubu yes but saying we should start a bigger work to start documenting things does not feel right
15:33 cait1 that would help people navigate as well
15:33 ashimema I was however tempted to add a couple of micro documentation sites.. one for a more public api documentation
15:33 ashimema and one for more clear notes on developing plugins
15:34 cait1 i was considering starting a a manuelly created list of pages
15:34 ashimema I think those are more manageable as self contained things
15:34 cait1 but thought i might be a little insane... and we really hsoud use tags/categories probably
15:34 ashimema and would market Koha well from a 'Koha is still relevant and modern' perspective
15:34 cait1 where would you put it?
15:34 cait1 i think we actually have good stuff hidden in the wiki, but it's very often not found
15:34 cait1 hidden in the pile
15:35 cait1 so we could think about having a nicer entry page maybe for a start that lists the often needed things in a nice way...
15:35 ashimema I was thinking of using the gitlab pages stuff..
15:35 cait1 not a total solution, but it might be helpful on the front page
15:35 ashimema and then asking for
15:35 Joubu so, plan for 21.11 would be 1. archive the wiki, 2. start from scratch with a better one, 3. Retrieve what is still valid/useful
15:35 cait1 that coudl be
15:35 cait1 yep
15:35 ashimema and possible
15:35 cait1 and maybe I will somehow find time to do some sorting and marking before
15:36 cait1 makes sense
15:36 ashimema +1 for archive the existing wiki and stat fresh migrating only what we actually think is really useful
15:36 * ashimema even wonders if mediawiki is just too big and complex for our uses
15:37 thd If I could not have time for the greater goal I would work on updating the archive of the wiki.
15:37 cait1 we used to have a dokuwiki, but both require a special syntax
15:37 tuxayo Do other wikis have categories?
15:37 cait1 i think something with a more easy flow of things when entering would be more inviting
15:37 thd Things need tags for findability.
15:38 thd The biggest problem with Dokuwiki was that there was no means to find untagged pages.
15:38 cait1 wysiwyg coudl lower the barrier some... abut also need good versioning
15:39 Joubu anyone willing to investigate the different alternatives we have (with a cons/pros list)?
15:39 cait1 I don't kow the market really... we use something proprietory at work, so experience is limtied
15:39 ashimema modern mediawiki is much easier wysiwyg wise
15:40 cait1 but we came from dokuwik and the easier handling for editing tables and the like made all the difference to get more people involved
15:40 tuxayo Need to install an additional service on the sever IIUC for the wysiwyg editor
15:40 cait1 something for a separate meeting maybe
15:40 Joubu yes!
15:40 Joubu moving on
15:40 cait1 yep sorry :)
15:40 Joubu #topic Automated updates for translated manuals
15:40 Topic for #koha is now Automated updates for translated manuals (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:40 Joubu ashimema: ?
15:40 Joubu any updates on that?
15:41 ashimema Well.. we got the space on the server expanded so that builds started working again
15:41 tuxayo wizzyrea++
15:41 ashimema and the tool now triggers proper gitlab merge requests
15:41 ashimema and...
15:41 ashimema as of a couple of days ago I added a cronjob to trigger that tool to run once a month a few days after release
15:42 cait1 oooooh nice
15:42 cait1 ashimema++
15:42 ashimema so we should get translation merge requests a few days after koha release.. so at least it'll get updated monthly
15:42 ashimema as for automating it more.. I think perhaps lets wait and see how much things change each month for a little while
15:42 tuxayo ashimema++
15:43 ashimema we will however end up with the same mess the koha repo has.. translations mixed in add to the git girth.
15:43 cait1 I am currently translating the 20.11 german manual, so there shoudl be something next itme
15:43 ashimema be nice to have translations in their own repo in the future
15:43 Joubu great, I let you adjust the roadmap for this topic
15:43 ashimema will do
15:43 Joubu ashimema: that's the plan with "git splitting"
15:43 ashimema indeed
15:43 Joubu * Koha Cookbook Project
15:44 Joubu Meeting planned next Friday (12th)! See the Koha agenda for the time.
15:44 ashimema be great to do the same for the manual repo once we have our heads wrapped around it :)
15:44 Joubu #topic Actions from last meeting
15:44 Topic for #koha is now Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:44 Joubu #info amoyano advertise Bug 15522 and ask the list for feedback [after 20.11 is released], setup a sandbox, etc.
15:44 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=15522 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Patch doesn't apply , New interface for revamped circulation rules
15:45 Joubu tcohen: I stop postponing this one, I let you readd it if needed
15:45 Joubu #info General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
15:45 Joubu #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
15:45 Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:45 Joubu #topic Systemd, Containerisation, Packaging, Other... we need a long term goal and roadmap for these things. - Bug 25674
15:45 Topic for #koha is now Systemd, Containerisation, Packaging, Other... we need a long term goal and roadmap for these things. - Bug 25674 (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:45 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=25674 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to master , Add RabbitMQ options to koha-create
15:46 Joubu ashimema: there are 3 topics coming from you
15:46 Joubu #info we need a long term goal and roadmap
15:46 Joubu (lol)
15:46 ashimema indeed there are
15:47 Joubu sorry, a bit sarcastic here, but we know that :)
15:47 ashimema hehe
15:47 ashimema indeed
15:47 ashimema basically.. on the rebbitmq stuff we seem to be working in various opposing directions and I got lost
15:48 ashimema do we need a systemd file or not.. how do we get things to startup as expected in the various installs
15:48 ashimema should rabbitmq be a require in the packages or an optional...
15:48 ashimema should the workers be part of core.. or in their own container, own package so you can install them on other machines and scale horizontally.
15:48 ashimema right now.. it's a mess and needs some clarity
15:49 Joubu we discussed some of that already
15:49 ashimema that's what this question was asking
15:49 Joubu rabbitmq is suggested, we created additional packages to fit the different needs
15:49 ashimema did we answer some of them and document it.
15:49 Joubu ok
15:49 Joubu how/where do we start the discussion?
15:50 ashimema :(
15:50 cait1 i think we did discuss, it might be a case of lack of documenting
15:50 cait1 i remember about koha-core etc
15:51 Joubu if we don't get more people involved more closely and regularly in the documentation and development process it will be hard to discuss such discussions anyway
15:51 ashimema perhaps the whole "lets make a koha-core" etc stuff should be one of the next cycles goals
15:51 ashimema and we should form a small working group to work out what we want, document it.. and then work towards it
15:51 Joubu it's done
15:51 Joubu we have the different packages, and it will be documented in the 21.05 release notes
15:51 ashimema ok
15:51 Joubu as "big tech changes in 21.05"
15:51 cait1 can we also update the pacakge information in the wiki please?
15:52 ashimema ok.. so which package does the worker sit in?
15:52 Joubu koha-full
15:52 * fridolin like service koha-worker@
15:53 fridolin i'm on building sercives koha-plack@opac and @staff
15:53 Joubu which wiki page cait? "install on debian"?
15:53 ashimema I think maybe I just need someone to walk me through the plan at the next hackfest.. I'm sure it would sink into my brain better with a pint in hand
15:53 cait1 there is one describing the different stable unstabel etc
15:53 cait1 maybe link from that
15:53 cait1 i will look
15:53 cait1 also... we are building our own packages - does the proecess change in that case? i guess so
15:54 Joubu I don't find it
15:54 cait1 https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]g_Debian_Packages
15:54 ashimema sounds like it's more under control than I thought thought.. so yeah.. happy to concede and someone can explain how it's all meant to fit together to me at some point.. haha
15:54 cait1 https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]es_-_The_Easy_Way
15:55 cait1 https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]my_Koha_installed (how to figure out which package?)
15:55 Joubu it's not listing the different packages the community provide
15:55 cait1 https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]bian_Dependencies
15:56 cait1 thee is tons on packages... that's one of our problems :) too scattered
15:56 ashimema this just highlights the need to tidy up the wiki again
15:56 cait1 yep
15:56 cait1 exactly
15:56 cait1 i can group stuff, but i can#t really merge it myself... so I got stuck there
15:57 Joubu we need another page to list the different packages :D
15:58 Joubu #action mtj write something about the new packages for the 21.05 release notes
15:58 cait1 lol
15:58 Joubu has to move on
15:58 cait1 but if that works i am happy ;)
15:58 Joubu #topic Should we add a coding guideline to clarify our message types: 'alert' vs 'error' - Bug 27695
15:58 Topic for #koha is now Should we add a coding guideline to clarify our message types: 'alert' vs 'error' - Bug 27695 (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:58 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27695 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Failed QA , Fix style of messages on Elasticsearch configuration page
15:58 Joubu yes we should
15:59 Joubu #action ashimema Write a coding guideline to clarify our message types: 'alert' vs 'error' (context of bug 27695)
15:59 ashimema So.. it was highligted to me recently that we have somewhat of a pattern for passing back 'messages' form methods.
15:59 ashimema but we don't have a guidelines for the 'types'
15:59 Joubu #topic We should reverse our 'title' elements - Bug 26703
15:59 Topic for #koha is now We should reverse our 'title' elements - Bug 26703 (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
15:59 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=26703 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wainuiwitikapark, Needs Signoff , We should reconsider best practice for our title elements
15:59 ashimema we should :)
15:59 ashimema brill
15:59 basti_ joined #koha
15:59 Joubu this is high priority (marking as such)
16:00 Joubu we need to help that bug
16:00 ashimema ok.. same again really... we need a guidelines so that we don't introduce new breakages once wainuiwitikpark has fixed all the current cases
16:00 ashimema yeah
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16:00 ashimema I've been helping a little in terms of guiding them.. but trying not to take over too much
16:00 Joubu there was another on
16:00 Joubu cannot remember
16:00 ashimema brill.. looks ready for testing now :)
16:01 Joubu will see after the meeting
16:01 ashimema hehe
16:01 Joubu #action Joubu we need to push 26703 asap
16:01 ashimema OK.. I'll draft up guidelines for both of those to vote in next meeting :)
16:02 Joubu #action ashimema Write a guideline for 26703
16:02 ashimema I don't think either is contentious :)
16:02 Joubu #topic Review of coding guidelines
16:02 Topic for #koha is now Review of coding guidelines (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
16:02 Joubu #topic On last meeting (24 feb) it was voted "using OPAC instead of Opac or opac", but it was forgotten to find someone to phrase it and add it to the guidelines.
16:02 Topic for #koha is now On last meeting (24 feb) it was voted "using OPAC instead of Opac or opac", but it was forgotten to find someone to phrase it and add it to the guidelines. (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
16:03 Joubu #action ashimema write a guideline about using "OPAC instead of Opac or opac"
16:03 tuxayo Wait, it's already in terminology
16:03 tuxayo davidnind++
16:03 tuxayo Moving on!
16:03 Joubu indeed!
16:03 Joubu #info "OPAC instead of Opac or opac" is on the Terminology wiki page
16:04 ashimema :)
16:04 Joubu #topic Set time of next meeting
16:04 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021)
16:04 Joubu #info Next meeting: 24 March 2021 20 UTC
16:04 Joubu #info Next meeting: 24 March 2021, 20 UTC
16:04 Joubu we are going to hit DST soon
16:05 Joubu will adjust later if needed
16:05 Joubu #endmeeting
16:05 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
16:05 huginn Meeting ended Wed Mar 10 16:05:08 2021 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
16:05 huginn Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-03-10-14.59.html
16:05 huginn Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-communit[…]1-03-10-14.59.txt
16:05 huginn Log:            https://meetings.koha-communit[…]10-14.59.log.html
16:05 ashimema :)
16:05 ashimema thanks peeps
16:05 tuxayo thanks Joubu and all
16:06 tuxayo bbl
16:06 cait1 Joubu++
16:07 caroline_catlady Do we have a separate meeting for the wiki question?
16:08 Joubu it must start on the ML I'd say
16:08 cait1 good point
16:09 ashimema the main thing we need is for it to not get stuck again
16:10 caroline_catlady I'd colunteer to send the email, but I missed the bulk of the conversation
16:10 Joubu bug 27610
16:10 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27610 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wainuiwitikapark, Needs Signoff , Accessibility: OPAC - <h1> on each page is Logo but should be page description/title
16:10 Joubu bug 27742
16:10 caroline_catlady what are the main points? mediawiki is too complicated, dokuwiki is too simple
16:10 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27742 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wainuiwitikapark, Signed Off , Accessibility: OPAC - Page titles should have unique information first
16:10 Joubu they were the ones I was looking for
16:10 caroline_catlady and 2) is it better to start over fresh?
16:11 thd Testing proposals without shutting down the old service would have avoided our subsequent problems long ago.
16:11 cait1 i don't think we are shutting anythign down until a replacement/plan is in place
16:12 cait1 but we have a need to fix this
16:12 caroline_catlady I'll send a starter email and y'all can respond if I'm missing anything. Does that sound good?
16:12 cait1 yep thanks caroline_catlady
16:12 cait1 i think maybe we shoud lask für suggestions on what is easy to use could be an alternative? but not sure
16:12 cait1 it might bring out some good ideas
16:14 thd The shutdown previously was a consequence of LibLime being lost to the community in difficult circumstances.
16:14 Joubu that was 13y ago
16:14 cait1 yes, but we moved over things then too, but software has evolved
16:15 cait1 it#s a good time to look at things that might be more attractive to users
16:17 thd The problem long ago was moving things over without first testing the implementation.
16:19 cait1 i think it served us for a long time, but got too difficult now, people are expecting different things - not using wiki syntax if possible, easier ways to tag etc.
16:19 cait1 and we have an issue with lots of outdated content
16:22 thd Outdated content will always be a problem.  It should be marked as such and archived but not deleted.
16:24 cait1 at the moment you can't find the good content, because we keep all and everything, there need to be better ways
16:24 cait1 but that's for the meeting, i actually need to move on to something else ow
16:25 thd I was very close to completing the migration script at the beginniing of last year and then COVID-19 really upended the economy and my life.
16:31 basti_ So, I was assigned to register about 1500 books for a small library. Currently, we can search some public server for the ISBN, import its data, then create a MARC record, then create book records for these. All of this involves a lot of typing and getting things in the correct order. I thought about using the REST API for achieving all of this, merely on entering an ISBN and some additional data.
16:32 basti_ I'm pretty sure that somebody already did something similar, any hints are welcome.
16:41 cait1 there is no batch thing in Koha for this
16:41 cait1 but there is a description i thin on how to do some more batch like cataloguing with marcedit i think
16:42 cait1 the problem can be, that an isbn can not be enough to identify things
16:42 cait1 you need to see if the record is for the print or electronic version
16:42 cait1 which edition etc. they can be different
16:43 * basti_ looks up marcedit
16:45 fridolin left #koha
16:48 caroline_catlady wiki email is off... probably not perfect, but feel free to add to the conversation
16:54 ashimema is bug 22544 on a branch somewhere Joubu?
16:54 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=22544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Move C4:NewsChannels to Koha namespace
16:54 ashimema seems to need a rebase :(
16:54 ashimema sorry
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17:48 reiveune bye
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20:43 KSorbo Is it possible to schedule a report to repeat on an ongoing basis? E.g. weekly or monthly?
20:43 KSorbo I realize that you could do this via a cron on the server side. I am wondering if this is possible via the Admin interface4
20:44 caroline_catlady KSorbo: not from the staff interface, only from the crons
20:44 KSorbo Thanks, caroline. I am kind of surprised this is not possible, given the powerful report system available
20:45 caroline_catlady I'm not sure why... there's a scheduler but it only works once
20:45 caroline_catlady I heard it was a security issue, but I'm nbot sure
20:46 KSorbo Thanks for your input!
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22:52 gmcharlt Joubu: done
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23:41 CrispyBran is down?

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