IRC log for #koha, 2020-12-14

All times shown according to UTC.

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07:19 magnuse \o/
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07:23 TimothyAlexis Hello, good morning and good evening.
07:25 TimothyAlexis We are using 2 languages in Koha, 'en' and 'sv-SE', is it possible to get these?
07:25 TimothyAlexis in code.
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07:32 alex_a Bonjour
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07:35 reiveune hello
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07:51 TimothyAlexis I found that I can use C4::Context->preference('opaclanguages'), is there a better option?
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08:04 ashimema what do you mean by 'in code' ?
08:04 ashimema what for..
08:04 ashimema a plugin?
08:04 ashimema or a core feature
08:04 ashimema TimothyAlexis: ^
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08:07 * cait1 waves
08:08 cait1 qa email delayed today, will send around lunch break
08:11 TimothyAlexis It's for a plugin
08:11 ashimema https://koha-community.gitlab.[…]translate-plugin/
08:12 ashimema might be worth a quick read
08:12 ashimema are you looking for the full list of installed languages or the currently active language
08:13 ashimema there are various methods in C4::Languages if you're doing more than just adding translations to a plugin
08:14 cait1 TimothyAlexis: I didn't have time yet to check closely, but would like to have another look at the statute-barred script
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08:14 cait1 ah the other laptop shut down... one cait less
08:14 ashimema +1, I have a busy day today, but that one was on my list
08:14 cait yeah busy here too, starting with a long meeting in 15 :(
08:15 TimothyAlexis cait1 It doesn't matter, we solved it locally and we will probably get back to that habit as my colleagues had been doing for about 1½ years before I started working here and thought we could contribute to community.
08:16 cait i think you can contribute and you hsould not let it spoil for you
08:16 cait we are all people and sometimes things go the wrong way - but most of the time things can be resolved
08:17 cait I for one am happy to have you around and see the input
08:22 ashimema That's upsetting to hear TimothyAlexis
08:22 ashimema I tend to agree with cait, you're better in than out and in general people are nice...
08:23 ashimema most times things go wrong in my experience are when cultures clash, things get lost in translation (not just language but online vs in person communication)
08:23 TimothyAlexis I spent 2 weeks on something that was worth 2 minutes and at the end the only contribution I had made was to insult someone.
08:23 ashimema and.. the simple fact that Koha is massive.. with a really long history.
08:23 ashimema remind my of the bug number..
08:23 ashimema I'll make some time now to take a look
08:24 TimothyAlexis I'm in a meeting now, will need to finish this first.
08:24 ashimema k
08:24 cait we'll be here :)
08:32 * ashimema has no idea what 'Status Barred' means.. it's not a term here
08:34 cait explained in the comments :)
08:34 cait i looked it up, it is in deed an english term
08:35 ashimema I'm reading all the comments still
08:35 ashimema it's a long thread
08:42 cait yeah, i didn' get to that yet
08:42 cait in department meeting
08:42 cait wrong window too :)
08:43 ashimema lol
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09:16 Joubu @later tell rangi can you generate the 20.11 schema for please?
09:16 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded.
09:17 cait hm got an issue here I have no idea about... maybe some of you got an an idea?
09:17 cait we have a library that lends out laptops, lots of holds, lots of items for 2 branches
09:18 Joubu @later tell rangi there is also a PR for the dashboard to merge (20.11 update)
09:18 wahanui okay, Joubu.
09:18 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded.
09:18 cait currently 8 holds
09:18 cait and ... for unknown reasons the priority 1 person doesn't get the laptop that is checked in at their branch
09:18 cait but number 4 in the list gets triggered
09:18 cait I have looked at the item - it's nothing special, home and holdingbranch are at the library that is pickup and homebranch of the patron
09:18 cait i looked at the hold on db level
09:19 cait it's a normal record level hold, no hold date in the future or similar
09:19 cait the priorities are all nicely sequentially numbered
09:19 cait ... which leaves me with NO IDEA. :(
09:20 Joubu how do you know that it's the 4th that has been triggered?
09:20 cait because they checked the laptop item in and then "ignored" the hold
09:20 cait we canr eproduce it that way
09:21 cait same happens when we check it in now for testing and ignore - again and again
09:21 Joubu you can reproduce the problem?
09:21 cait yes
09:21 Joubu on master?
09:21 cait no
09:21 Joubu on another specific version?
09:21 cait for this library for now.... as i have no clue what's going on yet, we haven't been able to see if it happens elsewhere
09:21 Joubu on just this one production server? :)
09:21 cait 18.11.13
09:21 cait yep
09:21 cait so far
09:22 cait ok 18.11.16 actually
09:22 cait I know it's old... but i really need to figure out what's going on there
09:23 cait hlds not filled in the right sequence is kind of a big issue :)
09:23 cait prio number 4 who gets the item looks the same as the ones that are ignored - same home library etc.
09:24 Joubu always 4th?
09:25 cait it doesn't appear to happen on other items there - so not sure
09:25 cait there are not many with so many holds, the laptops are a high-demand item
09:26 Joubu how many holds?
09:26 Joubu 10, 100, 1000?
09:26 cait currently 8
09:26 cait so not that many
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09:27 cait 9 holds currently for 70 items
09:32 Joubu sorry, no idea and cannot recreate :-/
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09:35 cait Joubu: thx for trying :)
09:35 cait which is the method called for triggering a hold?
09:35 cait maybe staring at the bit of code will give me an idea
09:42 Joubu cait: it's C4::Reserves::CheckReserves called from AddReturn
09:44 Joubu Is LocalHoldsPriority on?
09:53 Joubu @later tell tcohen Do you think we can accept 26742 as it or should we require the changes to koha-create, makefile, etc.?
09:53 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded.
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09:56 cait Joubu: no, but the patrons in question are all from the same branches anyway :(
10:02 TimothyAlexis cait my intention is to contribute where I can. If I'm adding some simple functionality where there already is similar functionality, then I think it's viable to simply align with the standard that is already there. If the standard needs to be improved, then that also makes sense.
10:03 TimothyAlexis In the case with bug 27080 Joonas kept changing the scope until I thought that fine, he is free to do it himself according to his liking.
10:03 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=27080 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, In Discussion , Add --statute-barred-fees option to to purge all fees where the item has been returned and the fee is older than the given number of days.
10:05 TimothyAlexis From our perspective, we are obligated to clean up statute-barred fines, I know that is true for all Swedish libraries, so I thought I'd just add that functionality.
10:07 TimothyAlexis Early on, Joonas requested that the implementation was according to the new standard, which would require all the already existing code to be updated aswell.
10:08 TimothyAlexis sooner or later...
10:09 TimothyAlexis After he had increased the scope a couple of times, I decided to let it go.
10:13 cait You can always bring it up to in discussion and alet me
10:13 cait there is something in the coding guidelines about disagreements with QA as well
10:13 cait .. and let me know
10:13 cait i was behind reading bug mail for the last 2 weeks so only saw it this weekend
10:14 magnuse cait++
10:14 cait we are human, it's totally ok to ask for second opinions
10:15 cait i believe it would be useful outside of sweden as well
10:15 cait we don#t have a law tot hat (that i know of) but it seems a reasonable feature
10:16 TimothyAlexis It takes 2 minutes to implement. Each library who wants the functionality can add it however they like. It could be a scheduled event in the database, it could be a custom perl script (which was the solution my colleagues had started before), it could be a custom enhancement of cleanup_database or even another way. I don't care. We have solved our problem.
10:16 TimothyAlexis I just thought that it would make sense to update what is already there, but I found that was not the case.
10:19 TimothyAlexis This was how it happened from our perspective.
10:19 TimothyAlexis "We need to clean up these fines."
10:19 TimothyAlexis "There is a --fees option in, let's use that one"
10:19 TimothyAlexis "Oh, it only deletes the records where amountoutstanding is 0"
10:20 ashimema sorry, in a meeting
10:20 ashimema be with you shortly,
10:20 TimothyAlexis "Yeah, we remember now, person X started working on a script for that some months ago, let's look at it."
10:20 TimothyAlexis *Looks at the script*
10:21 TimothyAlexis "Wouldn't it make sense to simply add an option to Similar to the --fees one"
10:21 TimothyAlexis "Yeah that makes sense, let's do that instead of creating a custom script to do it."
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10:22 TimothyAlexis "Well, usually I would just want to add a scheduled event to the database... But we don't have a single one of those, it's being done with cronjobs in Koha. OK, let's update"
10:22 TimothyAlexis "That way, it could benefit all the other libraries that need to do this too."
10:22 TimothyAlexis 2 weeks of problems.
10:22 TimothyAlexis *drop it* -> local change -> done.
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10:26 cait I think the initial thought was right - having it for everyone who needs it. A lot of libraries don't have the option to add locally in a simple way.
10:26 cait but I understand your reasoning about effort / effect
10:27 cait gotta go again for a while
10:29 ashimema I feel you TimothyAlexis
10:29 ashimema I think many of us have been in that predicament
10:31 tcohen morning
10:31 ashimema I'd also be really interested in your thoughts on using some other methods going forward btw.. the db actions is very interesting to me
10:33 tcohen Joubu: I'd say yes.
10:33 tcohen At least on koha-create
10:34 tcohen jajm would say Makefile too
10:43 tcohen can I get a couple eyes on bug 27209?
10:43 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=27209 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Add Koha::Hold->set_pickup_location
10:43 tcohen i'll be re-submitting bug 27205 on top of it, thanks
10:44 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=27205 major, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Hold routes are not dealing with invalid pickup locations
10:47 Joubu @later tell oleonard 27099 is driving me crazy, I can't come up with a fix. Could you have a look? Pretty sure it will be trivial for you :)
10:47 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded.
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11:07 tuxayo Anyone to QA a trivial patch to make the CI on 20.05 pass again? bug 27177
11:07 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=27177 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , t/db_dependent/api/v1/holds.t failing after bug 26988
11:07 TimothyAlexis ashimema I think Joonas has a clear view of what he wants done, so he can do that. We have solved the issue on our part. The other 60+ Swedish libraries are going to run into the same situation within 3 years, so they can solve it however they want. If Community wants to prepare for that, then the bug report is there. When I let something go, I have let it go.
11:07 tuxayo hi #koha BTW :)
11:08 ashimema OK, so long as it's not left such a bitter taste that you won't try again on other bugs
11:09 TimothyAlexis Honestly, I have yet to make any meaningful contributions. The ones I've done so far have been trivial and the only reason I've really done them is to learn how to do it, thinking that at some point I'd know enough to make some actual contributions.
11:10 ashimema well.. let me know if/when you ever need support getting things in.. I will always try to help and try to be pragmatic
11:13 Joubu tuxayo: I am on it
11:13 TimothyAlexis I've learned that if I ever reach a level of knowledge where I could start making contributions, this is what I'd have to deal with. The solution I have for that is to apply my skills where they are valued.
11:14 tuxayo Thanks Joubu :)
11:16 TimothyAlexis This is how I see it:
11:16 TimothyAlexis option 1 - scheduled event in the database, 1 line of code, 2 minutes implementation
11:17 TimothyAlexis option 2 - ridiculous complexity to get the same result, including meaningless tests testing that the insane, meaningless complexity works.
11:18 TimothyAlexis We want to get some rows from the database based on 3 criteria and delete those.
11:19 TimothyAlexis It doesn't make any sense to do that with a perl script which defines a method for an object which uses another object to search etc. etc. etc. and then test if that function works.
11:19 TimothyAlexis and then schedule that as a cron job.
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11:20 TimothyAlexis At the end of the day, we are deleting rows in a database based on 3 criteria.
11:20 TimothyAlexis There is the superfluous way of doing it, and the sensible way of doing it.
11:21 ashimema that's perspective.. I highlighted a few possible issues with your query in the bug report...
11:21 TimothyAlexis At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how we do it in because the fundamental idea to use a cron scheduled perl script doesn't make any sense.
11:21 ashimema if you have the expertise to maintain customer work going forward.. then the approach of not having tests and doing it locally is fine ;)
11:22 TimothyAlexis I have a similar situation in memory.
11:22 Joubu then do it that way TimothyAlexis :)
11:22 Joubu if you are happy with it, everybody is happy I think
11:24 magnuse there are some other things to keep in mind too, like we want to log (to the action logs system) when automatic things happen
11:26 tcohen I agree it is frustrating, I never found a proper way to workaround that. But I've learnt to value other's opinions to make my work better
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11:27 TimothyAlexis The frustration stems from an entirely different source.
11:27 TimothyAlexis It really has very little to do with Koha.
11:27 TimothyAlexis Which is the reason why we are doing this in the first place.
11:28 ashimema so long as people are not really angry with each other and happy to agree to disagree.. then we're all good
11:29 magnuse +1
11:29 tcohen +1
11:29 tcohen I like the idea of leveraging on the DB more
11:29 TimothyAlexis ashimema++
11:35 oleonard Hi all
11:35 TimothyAlexis OK so there are even more things to consider.
11:36 TimothyAlexis Which Martin Renvoize commented.
11:38 TimothyAlexis I'm going to talk with my team about it and we're possibly going to have to talk with those who actually want this to see if they even understand what it is that they are requesting.
11:41 TimothyAlexis Reading Martin's comments, writing them off makes more sense than to delete them. Then they would balance to 0 and removed based on that criteria.
11:44 TimothyAlexis Testing is fine, as long as what we're testing makes sense.
11:50 TimothyAlexis There needs to be a bug report for the stuff that is already in too, the --fees option uses stuff which has been concluded wrong and the unit test for it should be according to the standard.
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11:57 ashimema ashimema == Martin Renvoize ;)
11:58 ashimema yeah, it needs a cleanup.. like many things :(
11:58 ashimema happy to help with such a cleanup.. though I already have a number of those projects on the go ;)
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12:06 TimothyAlexis I acted in frustration and the problem was me. I ask forgiveness.
12:06 TimothyAlexis For my behavior.
12:17 tcohen google down for 10 minutes already
12:18 tuxayo Joubu++ great catch on 27177 (t/db_dependent/api/v1/holds.t for 20.05)
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12:34 tcohen tuxayo I'm writing a patch for POST
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13:09 magnuse koha put 16 messages for one patron in the message_queue (which was as expected), but postfix logs sending out 32 emails to the same patron, in 9 seconds. anyone else seen that?
13:10 magnuse a quick grep-and-count on the log shows both even and odd numbers of messages for different email adresses, so it looks like this is not happening for all patrons
13:19 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 27166: Set destination_loc to item->homebranch <[…]fc0a5098e8c5260c3>
13:19 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 27166: Unit tests <[…]123e6e1e732c1ed6c>
13:19 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 27133: (bug 19351 follow-up) Add missing "Copy no" header to relative's checkouts <[…]9d7c0bd8c685dd4a2>
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13:21 magnuse wheeee!
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13:22 ashimema ?
13:22 cait1 netsplit
13:22 cait1 you didn#t see it i guess :)
13:25 cait1 oleonard: would you mind taking a look at bug 22038?
13:25 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22038 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, didier.gautheron, Signed Off , When exporting account table to excel, decimal is lost
13:25 oleonard What do I need to do to get Elasticsearch working in koha-testing-docker? Is ES5 the version I should choose?
13:26 magnuse sacrifice your firstborn
13:27 oleonard brb getting scimitar
13:28 oleonard I feel like it's not a good sign when I see "koha_es_1 exited with code 137"
13:30 oleonard tcohen do you have any advice?
13:31 tcohen oleonard ES6
13:31 tcohen what OS are you on?
13:31 tcohen ES requires RAM, make sure the docker VM has RAM if you are on windows/macos
13:32 tcohen I don't have a windows machine to test but on linux and macos some kernel setting is required to allow docker to allocate enough RAM for it
13:32 oleonard I'm on Mac
13:39 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
13:40 Joubu oleonard: there should be the relevant error before this line
13:43 did cait1: oops,, my mistake it's in 'needs signoff' state no signed off;[…]_bug.cgi?id=22038
13:43 huginn Bug 22038: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, didier.gautheron, Needs Signoff , When exporting account table to excel, decimal is lost
13:51 oleonard Joubu how do I reproduce Bug 27200?
13:51 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=27200 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , "Browse search" is broken
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13:57 Joubu oleonard: Turn on OpacBrowseSearch
13:57 Joubu then /cgi-bin/koha/
13:57 Joubu that's it :)
13:57 oleonard I don't see any link to that page
13:57 Joubu Are you seeing "An error occurred, please try again."?
13:57 Joubu With or without the patch I attached?
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13:58 Joubu if you have the patch, then you don't see the "an error occurred"
13:59 Joubu If you can click "Search", then search for Exact: "d"
13:59 Joubu then you can click on a result
13:59 Joubu
13:59 oleonard If I navigate directly to I see "This feature is not enabled" even though I enabled OpacBrowseSearch.
14:00 magnuse restart_all?
14:00 Joubu searchengine=elastic?
14:01 oleonard Oh shoot searchengine got reset when I restarted the container. Sorry about that.
14:02 Joubu oleonard: you can turn it on automatically, in .env (from ktd): KOHA_ELASTICSEARCH=1
14:03 oleonard I would have thought starting the container with "ku-es5" would have turned it on
14:04 Joubu nope, it just setup the "elastic" docker container
14:04 Joubu KOHA_ELASTICSEARCH=1 will change the syspref and run the indexation
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14:08 pastebot "oleonard" at pasted "Still getting error from browse search even after patch and restart" (235 lines) at
14:15 Joubu oleonard: try koha-elasticsearch --rebuild -d -r kohadev
14:27 oleonard Thanks Joubu
14:27 oleonard I have definitely never seen that page, sorry everyone :D
14:28 caroline cait1: what do you mean by manual saved search?
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14:37 TimothyAlexis ashimema, cait1, We have discussed the statute-barred fines and have concluded that even though there are clear rules for how to handle them, translating that to system operations will need to be handled customly for each organization.
14:43 TimothyAlexis To clean up statute-barred fees would require the system to know how a statute-barred fee is defined, which would need to be defined specifically for each library.
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15:58 caroline ashimema and/or rangi: I got another pipeline fail after merging a manual contrib my lucyvh
15:59 caroline *by
16:02 cait1 caroline: there was something you wanted from me in the docs meeting i missed
16:02 cait1 i scanned it quickly
16:02 cait1 some search i created on bugzilla that needs to be changed?
16:02 caroline oh yes!
16:02 caroline The Documentation to-do search on the main page
16:03 caroline can you add OR manual keyword?
16:03 cait1 did: will your patch also replace . , in text fields?
16:03 cait1 i only took a very quick look, but it didn't look like a pattern was checked on first glance - maybe there is a type or so it already gives?
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17:00 reiveune bye
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17:57 caroline bbl
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19:38 cait @later tell caroline the manual keyword should already be checked
19:38 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
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21:34 oleonard Is there some one for the user to see their own card number in the OPAC?
21:34 oleonard some way?
21:35 caroline isn't it in my personal information?
21:35 caroline or you personal informtion (i never know if it says my or your)
21:36 oleonard Oh, I guess it is in my test system. Why not in production, customization or old version? :D
21:39 oleonard There it is... I was looking at the wrong preference...
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