IRC log for #koha, 2019-12-06

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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06:32 calire morning #koha
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06:56 marcelr hi #koha
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07:15 nlegrand boker tov
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07:38 reiveune hello
07:38 fridolin hi
07:38 wahanui privet, fridolin
07:45 * magnuse waves
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08:00 alex_a Bonjour
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08:30 magnuse hm, "sudo apt-cache policy koha-common" says i just upgraded to 19.05.06, but "About Koha" says 19.05.05?
08:48 marcelr cache ?
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09:14 ashimema er.. there is not 19.05.06
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09:15 ashimema sounds like a mistake somewhere..
09:15 * ashimema opens email and see's how much he's missed whilst he's been in meetings the past couple of days :(
09:44 cait not checking email at all? that sounds like productive meetings :)
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09:53 ashimema yeah, not bad :)
10:33 cait how are the emails?
10:35 andreashm Oh no! We have found duplicate fines in the database. Instead of continuing to add fine updates, sometimes a new fine is instead created. Say a fine was accruing, with 250 SEK on Tuesday. Instead of increasing it to 260 the next day, another (new) fine with 260 is added the same day.
10:35 andreashm We have now turned of fines while we investigate.
10:35 cait ouch
10:35 cait no renewals in between... right?
10:36 cait which version?
10:36 wahanui which version is thiis?
10:36 andreashm Seems related both to the automatic renewals cronjob, and wrong calculations done on return (but we have CalculateFinesOnReturn set to Don't)
10:36 andreashm 18.11.04
10:37 cait hm are you using book drop or so?
10:37 andreashm I haven't seen anything related in Bugzilla (although some things close, but not quite the same). But sounds a bit like https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=23454
10:37 huginn Bug 23454: major, P5 - low, ---,, NEW , Fine for the previous overdue may get overwritten by the next one
10:38 andreashm cait: no, not using book drop mode.
10:40 andreashm We have over 400 casesof faulty duplicate fines added, this year. =(
10:41 cait how do you knwo they are faulty... same issue_id and created one day after last incrmeent of the other fine?
10:45 andreashm cait: yes.
10:45 cait hm
10:45 cait that's... not good
10:47 andreashm not at all
10:48 andreashm But it doesn't happen all the time. Making it hard to replicate the issue
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10:50 andreashm The major thing seem to be why the automatic renewals sometimes adds a new fine. But I also don't understand why fees are sometimes calculated on return (ignoring that syspref). Returns are mostly Lost items that are problematic. (they are the reason we started looking into this)
10:50 cait oh
10:50 cait if there was a renew happening... it would make the fine start over
10:51 cait can you see the last renewed for those?
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11:04 andreashm renews make the fine start over?
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11:06 andreashm will look if they have been renewed then. but previously, it seems not. will look if holds added/deleted is involved.
11:09 andreashm cait: ^^
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11:11 cait andreashm: i think so
11:11 cait because then a new 'fine process starts'
11:11 cait you renew... get a new due date... it goes overdue again, it starts again
11:11 cait if you still have old fines from last time... your bad
11:12 cait if it's something like that... it woudl not be really doubled
11:12 cait the old one would no longer accrue, onle the new entry... and one would be F and the other FU
11:13 khall joined #koha
11:13 andreashm cait: ah, like so. But no, these change from one day to the next, during the same "cycle".
11:14 andreashm we have had some occurances like you describe, but some others obviously faulty
11:14 cait i was wondering... sometimes a recalculated due date could be the same date as before
11:14 andreashm hmmmm
11:14 cait in theory.. if that could be it - like it's not really 'renewed' into the future
11:14 cait that's why checking the logs for  a renewal happening might be ineresting to rule out/confirm
11:15 cait just trying to think what could cause this... we are about to go to 18.11 and meh
11:15 cait don't want this :)
11:15 andreashm cait: thanks, I'll look more at it!
11:20 andreashm cait: looking more at the list, it seems most of the nightly runs happened before upgrading to 18.11. And the other problem (returns being calculated for Lost book being returned), appears mostly after upgrade. Interesting!
11:21 cait there are quite a few bugs in the lost area reported
11:21 cait since we don't use that heavily i haven't dug deeper
11:22 cait bug 22877 for example
11:22 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22877 major, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, RESOLVED FIXED, Returning a lost item not marked as returned can generate additional overdue fines
11:23 cait sorry for making noise on the bug... chose a wrong status and now have towork through some more to get back :(
11:27 andreashm cait: oh! that looks very much like our problem!
11:29 andreashm cait++
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11:56 andreashm This is why I love the Koha community! =)
11:57 andreashm ashimema++ too!
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12:11 kidclamp joubu++
12:18 andreashm kidclamp++
12:18 kidclamp andreashm++
12:18 kidclamp :-)
12:20 andreashm ;Karma-fest!
12:21 kidclamp ashimema++
12:21 kidclamp cait++
12:21 * kidclamp loooks and realizes I could go on for quite a while
12:21 kidclamp koha++
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12:51 magnuse allyall++
13:03 magnuse ashimema: the main ill requests table has a lot of columns now, but it is not self evident what data in the db corresponds to what column. do you think you or Andrew could do a quick wiki page with the mappings?
13:07 magnuse or point me to some place where the mapping is explicit?
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13:16 cait you could also do it in kohastructure.sql
13:16 cait as scomments
13:16 cait so it shows up on schema
13:18 magnuse the thing is the illrequestattributes, where you have type=x, value=y
13:18 magnuse so you would have to document a lot of different types
13:19 ashimema oh.. sorry.. was having lunch
13:20 magnuse np
13:20 cait ah ok
13:21 ashimema I'll ask andrew what he can do
13:21 cait ype, my suggestion won't work then
13:21 magnuse awesome!
13:21 ashimema the requestattributes table is very much like authorized values..
13:21 magnuse yeah
13:21 ashimema as in.. it can kinda contain whatever you fancy and actas as it's own DB
13:21 ashimema which is great and terrible at the same time
13:23 magnuse and gets real interesting when you have to display some subset of data from several schemes in one table...
13:23 magnuse at least it's flexible :-)
13:25 ashimema probably what you want is less about the db schema and more about the internal api that's built atop it.
13:29 magnuse yeah, true
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13:36 ashimema think he must be at lunch.. struggling to raise him
13:37 magnuse no hurry!
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13:37 ashimema still enjoying magnuse?
13:39 magnuse yes indeed
13:39 ashimema do you use the irc bridge stuff at all?
13:39 magnuse nope
13:40 magnuse and so far i have only used it with a couple users, so dunno how it behaves at scale
13:40 magnuse but there is very little i have to complain about
13:41 ashimema I'm thinking of suggesting we trial it at a community level
13:41 magnuse pertty much the only thing is that if someone replies in a thread, that reply is also shown in the main discussion. i *think* it is possible to quickfix that with some custom css, but i have not been able to figure that out
13:41 ashimema we were talking about getting more of our customers interacting in the community.. but IRC is still seen as a big barrier
13:42 ashimema threads are wierd in slack too
13:42 ashimema I don't like them at all
13:42 magnuse yeah, i can kinda see why that would put some people off
13:43 ashimema and even us geeks who are comfortable in IRC...
13:43 ashimema I don't think we'd mind a shift personally..
13:44 * ashimema uses Slack allot to talk internally at ptfs-e.. but also uses it allot to talk to tcohen, kidclamp, khall etc etc..
13:44 ashimema it's just easy
13:44 ashimema irc have never been quiet to immediately easy for me
13:44 * khall is in favor of a Koha slack channel ;)
13:45 ashimema I don't think i could sell slack to the wider koha community ;)
13:45 ashimema it's too closed and too expensive
13:45 ashimema you helps bywater choose slack didn't you khall
13:46 ashimema why slack over or mattermost?
13:46 magnuse (you can turn threads off in rocket)
13:49 * andreashm likes Slack to. And the Swedish user group has =)
13:49 andreashm but mattermost och would be better for the international community yes.
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13:49 andreashm IRC is a big barrier
13:50 * andreashm should try Still haven't. Tried Mattermost though.
13:50 magnuse i can testify to the swedish community being very active on slack :-)
13:50 ashimema yeah.. i've already done the mattermost vs comparision and decided would be a better fit
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13:50 ashimema I don't think we should go slack.. and think we'd end up with a fair bit of backlash if some of us suggested that
13:50 ashimema maybe I'm incorrect
13:51 Dyrcona It bugs me when F/OSS projects use proprietary software for communications.
13:51 andreashm .... and now I now why. Self install or pay
13:52 ashimema there's a demo out there you can play with.. but no-one really on it
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13:56 Dyrcona Yeah, that model bothers me: a free "community" version or pay for more features. It has become increasingly common lately. But, I'm not really in the Koha community, so feel free to ignore me. :)
13:57 andreashm ashimema: thanks. I got invited to magnuse's one, so I can test there. =)
13:58 caroline_catlady good morning!
13:58 magnuse kia ora caroline_catlady
14:04 andreashm hey caroline_catlady
14:04 wahanui somebody said caroline_catlady was to blame for me thinking about icecream all day long!
14:04 caroline_catlady lol!!
14:04 andreashm now I'm thinking of icecream! damn wahanui! =)
14:04 caroline_catlady I wonder who said that....
14:05 * magnuse thinks about pizza
14:17 cait hm someon eever tried to use bitwise operators in a report? << crashes because koha thinks it#s a placeholder thingy
14:18 cait flags & (1 << 1)
14:19 kidclamp ashimema++
14:19 kidclamp 1
14:19 kidclamp ashimema++
14:19 kidclamp ashimema++
14:20 * cait must have missed somehting
14:20 * kidclamp bullied martin and he gave in - I am rewarding that
14:20 kidclamp :-p
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14:22 ashimema hehe
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15:09 Nemo_bis Over 50 % market share in public libraries, I had no idea. Scary.[…]uying-innovative/
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15:27 corilynn have you used OCLC's WorldShare? It's TERRIBLE!
15:28 cait corilynn: did you?
15:28 cait never met someone who really used it - there is only 1 installation i think in germany
15:29 cait We saw a presentation a while ago
15:32 corilynn I had to for a customer, briefly. I didn't like it
15:33 corilynn I'm just pleased that I got the worldcat apis working so I didn't have to login 50 times a day to get one number
15:37 cait makes sense, you mostly did cataloguing?
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15:39 corilynn I mostly *do* cataloging
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16:36 reiveune bye
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16:41 liliputech_asu caturday?
16:41 AnnaBoten CATURDAY! \o/
16:41 liliputech_asu yey
16:42 liliputech_asu have a nice one :)
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23:12 Marie-Luce have a lovely weekend all
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