IRC log for #koha, 2019-08-21

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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04:04 KeithS I am looking for guidance on updating the authorities file based on biblio data. In transition from another system that did not use authorities, I imported the biblio data into Koha (17.11). Now when I want to edit the subject tracings of a manually imported biblio, it doesn't allow me to edit. I assume this is because the new subject tracing is not in the Authorities. Are there any shortcuts on this?
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07:03 alex_a Bonjour
07:03 wahanui hello, alex_a
07:05 cait joined #koha
07:10 andreashm salut
07:11 cait good morning #koha!
07:11 andreashm hey cait
07:11 andreashm upgrade to 18.11 completed. yay!
07:11 liliputech_asu morning :)
07:12 cait andreashm: let me know how it goes!
07:12 cait but great to hear :)
07:13 andreashm it went well. had some issues with automatic renewals and fines as cronjobs didn't run in the correct order when we started them again. but that was our fault, we should schedule them better.
07:14 andreashm cait: ^
07:16 * magnuse waves
07:16 cait ah yeah... i had some merge error there too in the past :)
07:16 cait nothing bad tho, but good to keep an eye on the files
07:20 andreashm most things we've had issues with is our own fault basically. Koha has been behaving well. =)
07:20 andreashm hi magnuse
07:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #363: STILL UNSTABLE in 42 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D8/363/
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07:22 cait andreashm: :)
07:25 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 14570: (RM follow-up) Add class relatinship to BorrowerRelationship <[…]31c79c1a90bf91436>
07:36 magnuse andreashm: ansible all the things! ;-)
07:44 cait ansible++ :)
07:58 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
07:58 wahanui Congratulations!
07:58 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #854: FIXED in 29 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D9/854/
08:00 magnuse woohoo!
08:04 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
08:04 wahanui Congratulations!
08:05 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U18 build #339: FIXED in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U18/339/
08:11 ashimema woop, woop
08:11 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #364: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D8/364/
08:11 ashimema dang.. typo in my own commit message..
08:11 ashimema oops
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08:55 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #365: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D8/365/
09:05 KeithS What is the apt-get command to install koha 17.11. I am migrating servers and need to install the older version before updating. I assume apt-get install koka-core will install the latest version.
09:08 cait KeithS: I think you woudl have to go differently as the 17.11 is no longer maintained
09:09 cait may i ask why you want to install the old version first?
09:10 cait you can load your db into a newer version to trigger an update (I asusme you can install older manually, but that might be a way to avoid that)
09:11 cait https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ki/Koha_on_Debian here is some information about the setup - you can see ther eis no codename for 17.11 anymore
09:12 cait or maybe 17.11 woudl still work - does someone else know?
09:12 ashimema anyone got any ideas for new features or enhancements that would 'improve social mobility' ?
09:12 KeithS @cait, so if I install latest version (19.x), I can I do a restore from a koha backup made on a version 17.11?
09:12 huginn` KeithS: I suck
09:12 ashimema wierd tender question.. how will your product/company improve the social mobility of the local area..
09:13 cait KeithS: yes
09:13 cait the application detects the mismatch between the versoin in the db and the koha version and starts an update process
09:15 cait ashimema: what is social mobility?
09:15 KeithS Just for my personal clarity: (1) run koha-backups on existing server (2) install latest version on new server (3) copy gz files to new server (4) run koha-restore (5) Koha updates db
09:16 ashimema ermm..
09:16 cait ashimema: i am looking it up right now :P
09:16 cait KeithS: i think in theory yes - haven't used the back up tools myself yet
09:16 cait hm
09:16 ashimema erm.. ways to help people help themselves..
09:16 cait maybe you want to do a dump instead
09:16 ashimema moving up the social/class ladder
09:16 cait you will need to create the db with the dump
09:17 cait not load into an existing one
09:17 ashimema loosely relates to accessability too
09:17 KeithS mysqldump?
09:17 cait not sure what the restore does... ashimema do you know?
09:17 cait KeithS: wondering if the backups /restore contain just the data or also the statements to create the tables
09:17 cait you don't want to load data into a 19.05 db - you want your 17.11 db as it is now so the update works smootly
09:18 ashimema afraid we don't use the backup tools either.. we just mysqldump
09:18 cait yeah it's what i have used too
09:18 cait KeithS: mysqldump is easy to use -if you look it up i'd try that
09:18 KeithS SO... mysqldump on existing server, then rebuild on new system and allow new system to read and update it
09:18 cait if you look at the files, there should be "create table" statements in it
09:19 cait yes
09:19 cait and don't run the web installer on your new server
09:19 cait load the db
09:19 KeithS After loading then run the web installer?
09:19 cait it shoudl then trigger that yep
09:19 KeithS THANKS LOADS!
09:19 cait but you don#t want it to create a 19.05 db first
09:20 cait as you are testing first (i hope) things should work out :)
09:21 cait ashimema: i've looked up social mobility and still have no clue...
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09:22 ashimema did my description help at all cait ?
09:23 cait which description?
09:24 ashimema social mobility: the upward movement of population through the class system
09:24 cait that didn't come through
09:25 ashimema so in this context really it's about finding ways to help people help themselves to better themselves..
09:25 cait ah ok... not the same wording
09:25 ashimema sorta relates to accessability too
09:25 cait maybe somethign about company policy for personal development?
09:25 cait accessibility might be good too yes
09:25 ashimema general 'how will your product help make the area a better place to live'
09:25 cait internships?
09:25 cait as you are pretty spread out it's hard to apply i guess
09:26 ashimema problem is.. it all has the caveat of it has to help their local population.. and none of us are based there..
09:26 ashimema indeed
09:28 ashimema hense I was looking for new features or improvements to koha we could code do probono that would help the whole community in this sort of respect but could also be sold as great locally
09:28 ashimema accessability seems a good one..
09:28 ashimema tracking of mobile libraries on a map perhaps
09:28 ashimema those sorts of things..
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09:30 eythian ashimema: it should totally be easy to waffle on about how contributions to free software library systems go towards improving literacy of people in disadvantaged areas etc.
09:30 ashimema Indeed.. except they add the local factor again..
09:34 eythian "this then improves the availability of freely distributable, modifiable, and customisable library systems for local organisations such as community centres and schools (etc.)"
09:34 ashimema nice
09:36 cait eythian++
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10:10 calire anyone else got issues accessing
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10:35 calire seems to be back, but slow
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10:46 eythian it's looking slow/not responding from here
10:47 eythian yep, not responding
10:59 magnuse bit slow, but works for me
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11:34 oleonard Hi #koha
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11:44 oleonard ashimema around?
11:46 ashimema hi
11:46 wahanui hello, ashimema
11:47 oleonard ashimema: I'm getting an error when running the db update for Bug 14570
11:47 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14570 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to master , Make it possible to add multiple guarantors to a record
11:47 ashimema poop
11:48 ashimema what's the error.. I thought I'd tested it pretty well with all sorts of wierd data issues
11:48 ashimema I must have missed a case
11:49 oleonard
11:50 oleonard it is not uncommon for me to have updatedatabase errors because I have crufty data
11:51 cait which makes you a great tester
11:57 oleonard This did not help me get that job as gourmet chocolate tester
11:57 ashimema lol
11:57 cait :)
11:57 ashimema that's a really wierd error
11:58 ashimema `duplicate key on write or update`.. when creating the table in the first palce
11:58 ashimema * `duplicate key on write or update`.. when creating the table in the first place
11:58 ashimema did you test this patch before.. does your db already have the table?
11:59 ashimema oh.. no.. no it cant have as the next line populating the table also fails because the table doens't exist yet!
11:59 ashimema wow
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12:39 oleonard Hi wizzyrea
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13:10 andreashm oleonard: that looks kind of like the errors we where getting because of utf8mb4 and duplicates on foreign keys. When running the tablespace got messed up and we had tables that both existed and didn't.
13:10 andreashm I really need to write down that bug
13:10 cait that sounds awful
13:11 ashimema is josef_moravec still lurking.. not seen him around in ages
13:11 andreashm josef had seen similar
13:11 andreashm cait: yes, it was
13:12 andreashm it delayed us upgrading from june to august
13:12 ashimema haha.. that may have well been what made me just think of him
13:12 andreashm[…]hen-using-utf8mb4
13:12 ashimema a vague recollection he had mentioned something similar
13:12 * cait realized she shoudl update translatoins
13:12 * andreashm is not a fan of the choice to have that collation as default
13:12 cait well... translate actually, they have been updated
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13:13 ashimema hmm.. we've had it as default for years longer than community have here..
13:13 ashimema it's the 'safest' to ensure utf8 compatability for all
13:13 andreashm ashimema: maybe not so many customers that have weird diacritics/different letters?
13:14 andreashm yes, but utf8mb4_bin would have been better from what I understand
13:14 ashimema mm.. perhaps..
13:14 * ashimema can't remember the difference..
13:14 andreashm ashimema: yes, good for korean, japanese etc., bad for nordic countries and eastern europe.
13:14 * ashimema also can't remember if it was around when we first moved to utf8mb4
13:15 ashimema bad for nordic?
13:15 andreashm ashimema: _bin seems to make a difference for diacritics and case
13:15 ashimema in what way?
13:15 andreashm The letters O and Ö are both treated as O
13:15 * ashimema is more than happy for a bug to be submitted to suggest such a change..
13:15 andreashm This creates duplicates. Especially bad in foreign keys (for us, mostly
13:15 ashimema though as you've shown earlier.. such a change for upgrades is just painful
13:16 andreashm Yeah, don't know the best way around this.
13:16 ashimema any chance you could write that up.. it does sound like something I'd like to pursue
13:16 ashimema hugs :)
13:16 * ashimema takes dog for a quick walk whilst he ponders
13:16 andreashm But I should start with writing that bug. It's high on my todo list (unfortunately, so are a lot of other things)
13:18 andreashm But I'll try to add a bug for that later today (tonight)
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13:33 ashimema Hmm, I think I remember some of the reasoning behind not using _bin now.. it was to do with not wanting to require exact character (including accents) for searching or something
13:33 ashimema Needs thought
13:46 tcohen morning all
13:47 cait bug 23484 ouch
13:47 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23484 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Holds to pull ( uses removed default_branch_item_rules table
13:47 cait morning tcohen
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14:20 cait tcohen: can you please have a loo at 15497?
14:21 cait I think it depens on bug 23281, correct? (I've added it, but want to make sure)
14:21 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23281 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to master , Add Koha::Objects::Limit::Library
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14:22 oleonard ashimema: I was afk for a while... Does your finding suggest a fix I can do on my end?
14:22 tcohen it doesn't
14:22 tcohen ^^ cait
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14:23 tcohen Koha::Object::Limit::Library <> Koha::ObjectS::Limit::Library
14:23 ashimema I couldn't work it out oleonard :(
14:52 Nemo_bis There's a Koha discussion room now at Skövde
15:22 cait tcohen: ok?
15:22 cait can you explain?
15:22 cait i mean why we need both...
15:22 cait in this case (I know we need both)
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15:23 cait hm or maybe not... heh, it's confusing, but might be not good right now to get more confsued
15:33 * Nemo_bis updated[…]e)#Current_status
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17:11 tcohen @later tell cait those classes are used to add superpowers to Koha::Object(s)-based classes. Specifically, Koha::Object::Limits::Library adds a Koha::Object based class the ability to define library constraints to the object (i.e. it adds methods so those limits can be added). Then Koha::Objects::Limits::Library adds plural classes a new method: search_with_library_limits that does what we would expect from it, perform a regular search on
17:11 tcohen the table, but crafting the query so the (added) library_id parameter is used to filter the results based on the configured limits
17:11 huginn` tcohen: The operation succeeded.
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17:29 phasefx_ hi guys, if a bug fix broke something, do you report a new bug or re-open the bug associated with the commit that broke things?
17:32 oleonard A new bug, with the old bug as a dependency
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18:26 kidclamp oleonard: looking from mobile, yes it makes much more sense
18:26 kidclamp I still think the plus minus would help
18:27 kidclamp on a browser search it is confusing, clicking to hide really isn't helpful when not no mobile
18:27 oleonard It probably shouldn't do anything at all if the layout isn't narrow
18:27 oleonard The "refine" link I mean
18:28 kidclamp if it could not be a link that would be ideal on wide display
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18:54 greenjimll Dev meeting in five minutes or so?
18:55 oleonard[…]s%20IRC%20Meeting
18:58 oleonard kidclamp: Working on it. More tomorrow.
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19:03 kidclamp dev meeting?
19:03 greenjimll Yep.
19:04 kidclamp #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 21 August 2019
19:04 huginn` Meeting started Wed Aug 21 19:04:22 2019 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at
19:04 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:04 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 21 August 2019)
19:04 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_21_august_2019'
19:04 kidclamp #topic Introductions
19:04 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 21 August 2019)
19:04 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
19:04 greenjimll #info Jon Knight, Loughborough University
19:04 kidclamp #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ng_21_August_2019 Agenda
19:05 davidnind #info David Nind, New Zealand
19:06 kidclamp sparse crowd
19:07 kidclamp and a blank agenda
19:07 greenjimll "Select" I like to think.
19:07 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea
19:07 kidclamp I will sugest waiting a few and skipping if no new comers?
19:08 kidclamp #chair wizzyrea
19:08 huginn` Current chairs: kidclamp wizzyrea
19:08 davidnind sounds good to me!
19:08 greenjimll Fine. Only thing I want to talk about was kohadevbox resizing under AOB.
19:08 wizzyrea You are CHEEKY
19:08 kidclamp AOB?
19:08 greenjimll Any Other Business
19:09 kidclamp we can all still disucsss :-)
19:09 kidclamp even if not meeting
19:09 greenjimll Er, or "general discussion" according the agenda. :-)
19:11 wizzyrea so what about the devbox question?
19:12 wizzyrea no this isn't enough people to have a meeting I reckon
19:12 kidclamp #infoo Meeting tabled due ot low attendance
19:12 kidclamp #info Meeting tabled due ot low attendance
19:12 wizzyrea kidclamp++
19:12 davidnind agree!
19:12 kidclamp #topic Set time of next meeting
19:12 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 21 August 2019)
19:13 kidclamp September 4? 13 UTC?
19:13 greenjimll Well, I have repeatedly broken kohadevbox's by running out of disc space whilst doing "git pull" to update them. I've started to work on a Perl script to resize the VM, but wonder if others had same problem.
19:13 wizzyrea right
19:13 wizzyrea yes
19:13 wizzyrea my way round it is to use SYNC_REPO
19:13 wizzyrea don't keep the repo inside the devbox
19:14 wizzyrea bonus you don't lose anything when you inevitably destroy your vagrant box for one reason or another
19:14 davidnind kidclamp++
19:14 greenjimll Ah, right. Is that recommended in the docs? Must have missed it.
19:14 wizzyrea I don't know if it's recommended
19:14 wizzyrea but it is listed as an option there
19:14 wizzyrea I mean *I* recommend it
19:14 greenjimll :-)
19:14 wizzyrea it could probably *BE* a recommendation
19:14 wizzyrea :D
19:15 kidclamp #info Next meeting: 4 September 2019, 13 UTC
19:15 kidclamp #endmeeting
19:15 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
19:15 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Aug 21 19:15:11 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
19:15 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-08-21-19.04.html
19:15 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]9-08-21-19.04.txt
19:15 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]21-19.04.log.html
19:15 greenjimll It sounds like a good idea - git pull often runs out of disc otherwise now and breaks even vagrant up sometimes.
19:15 kidclamp you can expand your devbox, but it takes some doing
19:15 wizzyrea yeah it's not a trivial thing really
19:15 wizzyrea I thought we had a wiki page about that
19:15 greenjimll Yes, that's why I was looking to script it.
19:16 kidclamp that would be cool
19:16 greenjimll Got as far as cloning vmdk to a vdi image, expanding and reattaching today, but then would need ansible to expand filesystem on guest.
19:17 greenjimll Hence not wanting to go too far down the rabbit hole if there's a better solution such as your repo syncing. Thanks.
19:17 wizzyrea you might have better luck with the testing docker thing?
19:17 wizzyrea it's a different animal altogether
19:17 wizzyrea well not altogether
19:17 wizzyrea it's like a great dane vs a shih tzu
19:18 greenjimll Knowing me, both would poop on my laptop. :-) :-)
19:18 wizzyrea rofl
19:19 greenjimll OK, I'll try the sync repo thing and have a look at docker too. Thanks. I was spending more of my scant time trying to fix kohadevbox/git than actually developing/testing.
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19:20 wizzyrea can relate :)
19:20 wizzyrea good luck
19:20 davidnind koha-testing-docker is the bees knees! ([…]a-testing-docker)
19:20 andreashm joined #koha
19:20 wizzyrea i like it too, but it has it's own quirks
19:21 wizzyrea like, impermanence (yes, I know it can be fixed to be permanent)
19:21 andreashm joined #koha
19:21 wizzyrea or more-permanent
19:22 davidnind with kohadevbox I never managed to get the repo syncing to work (something NFS, permissions, something, something...)
19:22 andreashm joined #koha
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19:23 davidnind plus koha-testing-docker is really fast to spin up (bearing i mind I only use for documenting and testing the occasional bug)
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19:28 greenjimll OK, night all!
19:28 greenjimll left #koha
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20:16 * cait waves
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20:39 andreashm hi cait
20:42 cait hi andreashm :)
21:06 andreashm Finally submitted the bug for the collation - uppgrade issue. Bug 23487
21:06 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23487 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Utf8mb4 collation causes problems with missing tables when upgrading the database
21:09 andreashm poorly written, but perhaps someone else understands what it's about. =)
21:11 ashimema Oh boo..  I totally missed the meetings
21:11 ashimema Sorry guys..
21:12 ashimema Brain fix, I thought it was an entirely different day
21:17 cait ohohmeetings?
21:17 cait i thought i msised one.. more?
21:20 andreashm wasn't one postponed?
21:23 inlibro joined #koha
21:32 ashimema Phone corrected meeting to meetings.. sorry
21:32 ashimema Just one
21:39 cait ok.. still missed it tho
21:43 ashimema 😭
21:45 cait i mean I did :)
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