IRC log for #koha, 2017-10-04

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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05:44 pianohacker mtj++ thanks :)
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06:32 reiveune hello
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06:55 * andreashm waves
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07:27 gaetan_B hello
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07:39 huginn` GERMS!!!!
07:39 wahanui Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world.
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07:52 cait Documentation Sprint starting soon!
07:52 cait 2 hours :)
08:00 * mirkh waves
08:18 * cait waves back
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11:15 cait Documentation Sprint!
11:15 cait waiting for all the merge requests (or questions) :)
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11:26 eythian @seen drojf
11:26 huginn` eythian: drojf was last seen in #koha 5 weeks, 0 days, 20 hours, 50 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <drojf> ping Joubu
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12:03 cait eythian: i recommend emailing him :)
12:07 gandaro I wanted to contribute to Koha, but I realized many libraries use Twitter and the likes to communicate with patrons, so I looked at Twitter alternatives and now I am translating Mastodon to German.
12:08 gandaro The Internet is distracting
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12:13 marcelr hi #koha
12:13 kidclamp hi marcelr
12:13 marcelr o/
12:15 cait gandaro: heh
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12:21 tcohen morning
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13:02 oleonard Anyone here have experience with defining libraries in Koha which aren't real libraries?  Are we limited to using jQuery to hide these from menus in the OPAC?
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13:06 kidclamp afaik that is the case oleonard, I am assuming you mean things like an 'eresources' branch or 'cataloging' branch
13:06 oleonard Yeah I'm being asked to define an "outreach" branch for tracking circulations from outreach services
13:07 kidclamp does it have to be a branch? could it be patron types? all depends on your process I suppose
13:08 oleonard Yeah I'm still working it through in my head. I'm trying hard to come up with something which doesn't require a new branch
13:08 oleonard The sticking point is: What if an outreach-type patron visits an actual library branch? Then the stats are thrown off.
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13:20 kidclamp hmmm...not if your reports take patron type into account
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13:28 oleonard I don't think I understand you kidclamp
13:28 oleonard I mean about that last statement, not in general. We don't have time for that.
13:28 kidclamp :-b
13:29 kidclamp I mean, you control what ends up in your stats, you can write circ reports that count an outreach patron depending on where they checkout, or however you want
13:29 kidclamp assuming you use custom reports for stats and not the wizards
13:30 oleonard right, so how do you differentiate the times when an outreach-patron checks something out during a home visit rather than in the library?
13:31 kidclamp oh, hmm
13:34 kidclamp it made sense to me before, but you win, I was thinking a diff branch, but that's what we are trying to avoid - you could change item type when distributing to patrons, or give them two accounts - an outreach account guaranteed by their regular account so they can see all checkouts
13:35 kidclamp bug 14576 would help, move them to outreach before checkout
13:35 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14576 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Allow arbitrary automatic update of location on checkin
13:37 kidclamp technically you could use a single staff account for outreach checkouts, and use the action logs to see how many checkouts were performed by that staff
13:38 oleonard Yeah I think that's getting into some pretty convoluted territory.
13:38 oleonard Thanks for helping me think it out though kidclamp
13:39 kidclamp thanks for letting me play :-)
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13:40 cait oleonard: it's documentation sprint day! :) do you want to rephrase that browser recommendation paragraph? :)
13:40 kidclamp house bound may be useful too but I haven't investigated that
13:42 oleonard cait: How did I fall into this trap?!
13:43 cait I dunno... i am just making a friendly suggestion
13:43 cait guess i got the recruiting hat on...
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13:56 oleonard Hello to lots of people joining
13:57 eythian what about those of us who can never leave, huh?
13:58 mveron joined #koha
13:58 mveron Hi #koha
13:58 oleonard Get back in the box eythian or you get the hose
13:58 eythian again?!‽
13:59 oleonard Whoops I just messed up on being friendly to new people.
13:59 kidclamp O meeting time
14:00 oleonard whut
14:01 oleonard I would love to be able to subscribe to a calendar feed for Koha IRC meetings because I'm bad at meetings.
14:01 kidclamp https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ng_4_October_2017
14:01 * oleonard did not just volunteer for anything
14:01 kidclamp #action oleonard will fix all the things
14:02 kidclamp #startmeeting General IRC meeting 4 October 2017
14:02 huginn` Meeting started Wed Oct  4 14:02:24 2017 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at
14:02 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:02 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 4 October 2017)
14:02 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_4_october_2017'
14:02 kidclamp #topci Introductions
14:02 kidclamp #topic Introductions
14:02 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
14:02 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 4 October 2017)
14:02 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "Joubu, khall, lari" (32 lines) at
14:02 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
14:02 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, USA
14:02 marcelr #info Marcel de Rooy, Netherlands
14:02 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
14:02 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi
14:03 NateC #info Nate Curulla, ByWater
14:03 mveron #info Marc Véron, Switzerland
14:03 AdamB joined #koha
14:03 d_antonakis #info Dimitris Antonakis, Greece
14:04 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
14:04 AdamB #info Adam Brooks, ByWater Solutions
14:04 lisettelatah #info Lisette Scheer, Latah County Library District
14:04 georgewilliams #info George Williams, Northeast Kansas Library System
14:05 indradg joined #koha
14:05 rangi #info Chris Cormack (only sorta here actually at a conference in Baltimore)
14:05 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta
14:06 kidclamp #topic Announcements
14:06 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 4 October 2017)
14:06 kidclamp #info Today is documentation sprint day!
14:06 kidclamp #info Next wednesday is GBSD!
14:06 kidclamp anyone else?
14:06 tcohen QA day?
14:07 kidclamp are we doing each friday until release?
14:07 Joubu or just do a bit of QA when you have time?
14:07 kidclamp or both?
14:07 wahanui both is, like, best :)
14:08 kidclamp everyday is QA day :-D
14:08 Joubu Basically there are no QA outside of the QA sprint days
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14:08 Joubu so I do not think they are a good idea
14:08 marcelr ??
14:09 kidclamp I think they seem to work for QAers though, a dedicated chunk of time, is easy to schedule, but maybe is a topic for a dev meeting?
14:09 tcohen I think it is a good idea
14:09 tcohen having a QA day a week
14:09 rangi i do feel (and I might be wrong) that since we havent had cait as QA manager a lot less QA is being done. This is no reflection on anyone, or meant to be rude, but I do feel like we now are seeing just how much work she put in.
14:10 marcelr dont forget Joubu
14:10 oleonard cait++
14:10 mveron cait++ Joubu++
14:10 tcohen absolutely, she was better than Joubu kicking our butts :-P
14:10 tcohen Joubu++
14:10 tcohen cait++
14:10 kidclamp cait++
14:10 kidclamp Joubu++
14:10 khall rangi++
14:11 kidclamp rangi++
14:11 mveron QAers++
14:11 tcohen rangi++
14:11 tcohen I think we should announce it, and communicate to all QAers they need to schedule a day, it will be easier for everyone
14:12 kidclamp +1
14:12 Joubu we communicated about them
14:13 mveron ...and we all know that we should pay attention to bug messages on such days, to fix things... (If we have time...)
14:13 Joubu what you just said is exactly what I did for the last 2 ones
14:13 cait huh? what did i do?
14:13 tcohen Joubu: humans are very weird creatures, don't try to understand
14:14 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
14:14 cait sorry, almost missed the meeting
14:15 cait #info Documentation Sprint Day is now and until 4 October had ended everywhere
14:16 cait Joubu++
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14:18 kidclamp I think the QA discussion should continue in email so we can keep this meeting general
14:18 Joubu definitely
14:18 kidclamp #topic Update on releases
14:18 Topic for #koha is now Update on releases (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 4 October 2017)
14:19 kidclamp cait?
14:19 wahanui cait is the best friend you could ever have.
14:19 cait wow today...
14:19 wahanui today is probably bug-squashing day
14:19 kidclamp wahanui botsnack
14:19 wahanui thanks kidclamp :)
14:19 cait #info 16.11.13 is on schedule for release around 22 October
14:20 cait #info Release managers are trying to coordinate so packages are available on release day
14:20 cait hm
14:20 cait release mainteiners...
14:21 kidclamp fridolin?
14:21 wahanui fridolin is busy at the moment, I asked him to backport the bug fix
14:22 kidclamp Joubu?
14:22 wahanui Joubu is not sure how to fix that correctly
14:22 fridolin kidclamp:  yep ?
14:22 wahanui yep.
14:22 kidclamp ah, update on 17.05?
14:22 kidclamp fridolin ^
14:22 fridolin i'looking at my skedule
14:23 BobB #info Bob Birchall, Calyx, Australia
14:23 Joubu #info if you need update about the RM, read dev meetings minutes or last "what's on in koha-devel" on the koha website
14:23 BobB hi all, just woke up, so here I am :)
14:23 Joubu sorry I cannot repeat myself every week
14:23 kidclamp np Joubu
14:23 fridolin #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre, France
14:24 fridolin 17.05.05 release after 23 oct i'd say
14:24 Joubu let's move on kidclamp
14:25 kidclamp #topic KohaCon 18
14:25 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 18 (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 4 October 2017)
14:25 oleonard #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]haCon18_Proposals
14:25 kidclamp there is a proposal to vote on new deadline for submissions as the last was not published
14:27 cait that's from me
14:27 cait we agreed on a date, but I didn't see it on the mailing list or bidding page, so I think we should reschedule and announce properly
14:27 oleonard +1
14:27 mveron +1
14:28 kidclamp do you think 2 weeks is sufficient? don't want to push back decision too far
14:28 cait better safe than sorry :)
14:28 tcohen there's only one bid
14:28 tcohen for september
14:28 cait yah, but in case somene says later they wanted to add a bid too
14:29 cait could we extend the bid until the next meeting?
14:29 tcohen one or two weeks won't hurt
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14:29 kidclamp next meeting makes sense to me, do we want to vote then? so make the dealine midnight day before
14:29 tcohen +1
14:30 cait sounds good
14:30 georgewilliams +1
14:30 khall +1
14:30 mveron +1
14:30 lisettelatah +1
14:31 kidclamp any dissenters?
14:31 cait if there is only one vote we can announce, if another is added we need to make a survey i think
14:31 cait to stick with procedure
14:31 kidclamp ah, okay
14:32 kidclamp #agreed Dealine for KohaCon 18 submissions extended to end of the day 17 October 2017
14:32 kidclamp you want to send that out cait?
14:33 cait super busy, can someone else do it plz?
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14:33 oleonard I'll do it
14:34 kidclamp oleonard++
14:34 cait oleonard++
14:34 kidclamp magnuse about?
14:34 tcohen oleonard++
14:34 kidclamp next topic is his unless anyone else can explain for help files
14:35 cait hm maybe i can help out
14:35 cait sec, looking at the agenda
14:35 cait the basic problem is that the help files included in Koha are copies of the text in the manual
14:35 kidclamp #topic Alternatives for help files
14:35 Topic for #koha is now Alternatives for help files (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 4 October 2017)
14:36 cait that is not a good way of doing things - it means Nicole manually copied text into each file and submitted patches
14:36 cait and if things get outdated, you have to maintain 2 files
14:36 cait translators have to translate twice
14:36 cait another separate problem: local changes to help files get overwritten on update
14:36 cait the main difference between help files and manual now is that they don't include links and are translated with Koha
14:37 cait I think we need to find a way that pulls things from the manual or maybe even link to it directly
14:37 cait but possibly can only do that once translation for the manula is sorted
14:37 cait there have been several bugs filed aruond the issue that magnuse put on a wiki page:
14:37 cait https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]es_for_help_files
14:38 cait we coud have a script pull the text maybe, but difficult to avoid double work for translators
14:38 cait we could deliver Koha with the manual and link to it
14:38 cait but I guess there is size to consider here
14:39 cait one bug suggests using a wiki... but we just switched to sphinx and I don't think having doubled up docs is feasable
14:39 cait etc.
14:39 cait ideas and such welcome :)
14:39 BobB good explanation cait, thank you
14:39 mveron Bug 18483 allows to have your own local help text. It can exist together with other help systems (managed by a syspref)
14:39 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18483 enhancement, P4, ---, veron, Signed Off , Customised help: Enhance staff client with news based, easily editable help system
14:40 Joubu we could try to generate the help files from the manual, automatically
14:40 cait reading back: not include screenshots, the help files have links, but no pictures
14:40 marcelr is there a way to check if we are not overwriting updated online help ?
14:40 kidclamp #info in a nutshell the issue is that help files duplicate the manual, require doulbe translations, and are overwritten on updates
14:41 kidclamp #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]es_for_help_files Current bugs/options for dealing with help files
14:41 cait Joubu: yeah, but how to handle translations?
14:41 Joubu missed that line
14:41 cait kidclamp: nice summary .)
14:42 cait there is actually a lot more interest in translating the manual than I woudl have thought
14:43 cait maybe there is a way to script things to work all together, translate onces, use those translations for help files and a full manual?
14:43 Joubu yes... just highlight the stuffs that are pulled to make them a priority for translators
14:43 cait and have a separte feature to store local additions
14:43 cait it's the same tex
14:43 cait i think we should really try to avoid double translation
14:43 cait it#s super painful
14:43 mveron +1
14:44 cait if the strings are the same, coudl we not take what was translated for the manual and have that in the po file for the help file somehow?
14:47 Joubu I will need to take a closer look, but it sounds tricky
14:47 Joubu do we want offline help?
14:47 kidclamp yes
14:47 Joubu otherwise we could imagine a webservice
14:47 mveron yes
14:48 mveron ..for offline help
14:48 cait I think it might be a requirement in some contexts
14:48 Joubu yes
14:48 Joubu so it sounds tricky :)
14:48 cait a local copy with a configurable url might be an option?
14:49 cait but probably woudl be hard for some to do
14:50 Joubu the easiest would be to point to the manual directly yes, instead of recreating something else based on the manual
14:50 cait not sure, shoudl we get some opinions on that?
14:51 Joubu syspref which points to the, but people could clone the manual and modify the pref?
14:51 cait a configurable url would be good anyway, so you can decide which language manual to link to
14:51 cait something like that
14:51 Joubu and we remove all the help/* files from the koha codebase
14:52 cait hm, not sure how mveron's feature would work
14:52 mveron Did you test it? - It works nicely
14:52 cait didn't test, but worried removing the help files would hurt it
14:52 mveron See my comment #21 on 18483
14:53 mveron No. Just some small changes necessary.
14:53 cait Joubu: if we remove help files, where do we store the link to themanual?
14:53 mveron Could be anaged by the syspref i introduced.
14:53 mveron managed (Sorry bad eyes today)
14:53 Joubu we will need a mapping koha page<=>manual
14:53 cait yep
14:54 cait maybeTT plugin and a mapping file?
14:54 cait maybe move the technical discussion out of the meeting
14:54 cait is this solution agreeable to people present?
14:54 kidclamp I+1
14:54 kidclamp +1
14:55 marcelr maybe first present it to the dev list ?
14:55 mveron +1
14:55 cait maybe translators too?
14:55 cait and i think we can't make the move before it's possible again to translate the manual
14:56 magnuse joined #koha
14:56 mveron Yes, translating the manual is a must
14:56 magnuse #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
14:56 rangi i havent caught up with bernardo yet sorry
14:57 kidclamp #info proposal is a syspref/mapping to local files and other wise pointing to the manual on the web
14:57 cait hm ok, let's send the proposal once we have checked with bernardo
14:57 kidclamp #info email will be sent to devs/translators once manual translation is sorted again
14:57 cait you can action item me for that
14:58 kidclamp #action cait will check with bernardo and send proposal
14:58 kidclamp magnuse: once you catch up on scrollback let us know if you have additions
14:58 kidclamp your topic was hijacked :-)
14:58 cait I had talked to him about it before, so I hope it was ok :)
14:59 mveron Did anybody try out Bug 18483?
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14:59 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18483 enhancement, P4, ---, veron, Signed Off , Customised help: Enhance staff client with news based, easily editable help system
14:59 * magnuse wanted to spark a discussion and seems to have succeeded :-)
14:59 reiveune bye
14:59 reiveune left #koha
15:00 magnuse Nothing special to add, I think
15:00 kidclamp we are at an hour - next meeting 18 October 2017, 21 UTC?
15:01 kidclamp or maybe 19 UTC? later is better for NZ I think, but earlier sometimes nets more people? I am open
15:03 oleonard Neither are great for me, but 21UTC is better, FWIW
15:03 cait daylight savings soon now, so things are moving around a bit
15:03 cait late here, but not impossible :)
15:04 kidclamp yeah, 21 is 5 here so is workable
15:04 kidclamp #topic Next meeting
15:04 Topic for #koha is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 4 October 2017)
15:04 kidclamp #info next meeting: 18 October 2017, 21 UTC
15:05 kidclamp last chance everyone ;-b
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15:06 kidclamp #endmeeting
15:06 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
15:06 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Oct  4 15:06:03 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
15:06 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-10-04-14.02.html
15:06 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]7-10-04-14.02.txt
15:06 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]04-14.02.log.html
15:06 cait kidclamp++
15:06 mveron kidclamp++
15:06 kidclamp thanks all!
15:06 oleonard kidclamp++
15:06 lisettelatah kidclamp++
15:09 fridolin kidclamp++
15:12 rangi ok i better go find what room im sposta be in, cyas later
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15:15 tcohen bye rangi!
15:24 cait oleonard++ first Documentation Spritn contributor!
15:25 oleonard First documentation contribution ever for me, I think. Only took me 15 years or so.
15:25 cait even more awesome
15:25 cait did the instructions work ok for you?
15:26 oleonard As a gitlab user, perfectly.
15:27 cait please feel free to improve them, I am still in an early beginner's stage
15:27 cait also anyone, if you have ideas/todos or want to grab a task:
15:28 cait for example checking the authorised values documented for missing ones is an easy one to do
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16:07 Joubu oleonard: I contacted wizzyrea about the Koha [meetings] agenda, I really like the idea
16:07 Joubu we could have a shared agenda (several people could add stuffs to it) and then display the date on the website
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16:07 Joubu and people could add it to their own agenda. Awesome, right? )
16:08 Joubu nobody will miss the meetings
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16:14 Joubu @later tell cait could you push 19391 and double check 18794 (marked as pushed but not in 16.11.x), it will turn jenkins green (hopefully)
16:14 huginn` Joubu: The operation succeeded.
16:30 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 19122: (bug 18098 follow-up) Fix IncludeSeeFromInSearches behaviour <[…]14a7dab76e20e0ca5>
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17:13 jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #277: UNSTABLE in 50 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D8/277/
17:13 jenkins Jonathan Druart: Bug 19122: (bug 18098 follow-up) Fix IncludeSeeFromInSearches behaviour
17:13 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19122 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , IncludeSeeFromInSearches is broken
17:13 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18098 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, RESOLVED FIXED, Add an index with the count of not onloan items
17:14 Joubu can someone ban this stupid bot from this channel?
17:41 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "{ "match": { "name": "_match"," (36 lines) at
18:05 eythian[…]erence-collective interesting
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19:32 * cait waves
19:35 alexbuckley_ hi cait
19:42 cait hi alexbuckley_ :)
19:46 cait Joubu++ thx! (images)
19:46 Joubu PR is coming soon ;)
19:55 cait @later tell tcohen
19:55 huginn` cait: (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
20:15 wizzyrea Joubu, i got your mail
20:15 wizzyrea you are going to have to more explicitly tell me your requirements :)
20:16 Joubu I'd like to have a meetings agenda (to start), to share with other people
20:16 Joubu the /agenda url on the website looks like what I want
20:16 wizzyrea easy thing
20:16 Joubu but I guess we need to link it with a public agenda (like google?)
20:16 wizzyrea will require research
20:16 wizzyrea (but not a lot of it)
20:17 wizzyrea do you have an example of the public agenda you are trying to integrate with?
20:17 Joubu nope :)
20:17 wizzyrea hehe
20:17 wizzyrea ok!
20:17 LeeJ joined #koha
20:17 * LeeJ waves
20:17 LeeJ hi #koha
20:18 wizzyrea we are currently putting these on the wiki right?
20:18 wizzyrea or are you saying
20:18 wizzyrea that you want
20:18 wizzyrea to redirect to the wiki?
20:18 wizzyrea which is an easy enough thing to do
20:18 wizzyrea I think
20:18 Prisila joined #koha
20:18 Prisila Manage libraries by venues
20:20 Prisila How to group libraries by headquarters, thank you very much
20:21 Joubu wizzyrea: I want people able to add an agenda to their own agenda
20:21 Joubu We (...I) will add the meeting dates to this agenda
20:21 * wizzyrea ponders
20:21 Joubu I have created one public google agenda, I have trouble to find a link to share with you...
20:21 wizzyrea hey links are good
20:22 Joubu[…]tina/Buenos_Aires
20:22 Joubu I guess it is the one
20:23 wizzyrea oh
20:23 Joubu hum, tz may be wrong :)
20:23 wizzyrea so you just want a calendar entry?
20:23 wizzyrea that's fine, it's easy
20:23 Joubu it seems that the plugin used by the website can do that
20:23 wizzyrea yep
20:23 Joubu just make it adds events from this agenda to the one on the website
20:23 wizzyrea I thought you were asking for something more complicated than that :)
20:24 wizzyrea naw, i can give you rights to add events there, unless there is some reason why you'd rather use google?
20:24 wizzyrea there = the koha community website
20:24 wizzyrea I think the community calendar lets you do ical things
20:24 wizzyrea but I'll check
20:25 Joubu I think it is easier to have a google agenda, shared with several guys from the community, than add accounts to the website
20:25 wizzyrea most of the people doing it already have accounts
20:28 wizzyrea there was some reason why we turned off the calendar on the website
20:28 wizzyrea I'm trying to remember what it was
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20:52 cait kidclamp++ another documentation contributor!
20:52 kidclamp cait++
20:52 cait if you want to try it out, i can find a small task to do, just let me know!
20:54 cait wizzyrea maybe? :)
21:01 Joubu @later tell oleonard Is there a good reason not to update jquery libs for the opac?
21:01 huginn` Joubu: The operation succeeded.
21:13 wizzyrea wait what
21:13 wahanui is Godot coming?
21:13 wizzyrea best response
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