| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
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BobB joined #koha |
| 00:01 |
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aleisha_ joined #koha |
| 00:04 |
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aleisha_ |
hi all |
| 00:04 |
|
kidclamp |
hi aleisha_ |
| 00:04 |
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wizzyrea |
hi aleisha |
| 00:04 |
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| 00:04 |
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aleisha_ joined #koha |
| 00:05 |
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aleisha_ |
hows it going kidclamp |
| 00:05 |
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kidclamp |
pretty good, how's about you? |
| 00:07 |
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irma joined #koha |
| 00:08 |
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* dcook |
waves to folk |
| 00:09 |
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| 00:10 |
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| 00:12 |
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aleisha_ |
good thanks! |
| 00:14 |
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papa joined #koha |
| 00:18 |
|
dcook |
kidclamp: Looking at an old blog post I made about linked data... |
| 00:18 |
|
dcook |
And the two records I've linked to are already dead links :p |
| 00:19 |
|
dcook |
The post is from November 2015, so I guess it's not super recent.. |
| 00:19 |
|
kidclamp |
hah, that is a problem |
| 00:19 |
|
kidclamp |
I need to reply to your post(s) by the way |
| 00:19 |
|
dcook |
I need to keep researching I think |
| 00:19 |
|
kidclamp |
heh, as do we all likely |
| 00:20 |
|
kidclamp |
two things quick 1- my big concern is just that we make it easy to switch backends |
| 00:20 |
|
kidclamp |
2 - we don't have to resolve our urls, it just seems way cooler to do so :-0) |
| 00:20 |
|
kidclamp |
:-) |
| 00:21 |
|
dcook |
hehe |
| 00:21 |
|
dcook |
Yeah, I want it easy to switch backends as well |
| 00:21 |
|
dcook |
Although I figure until we know what we want to do with the backend... |
| 00:21 |
|
dcook |
It might make it difficult to create an API for the backend |
| 00:21 |
|
dcook |
I still find updates so... troubling |
| 00:22 |
|
dcook |
Although maybe it's not so different from relational databases.. |
| 00:22 |
|
dcook |
I find all the interconnections a bit mind boggling |
| 00:22 |
|
dcook |
Like... sure a URI can replace an ID in a relational database |
| 00:22 |
|
dcook |
But then what about all the triples that are linked from that URI.. |
| 00:22 |
|
dcook |
There's no "Delete: Cascade" |
| 00:23 |
|
kidclamp |
I was at code4lib and talked to the Boston Public Library guys who are doing a lot of work, they implemented everything via SQL - any type was table |
| 00:23 |
|
dcook |
Nor should there be I suppose... but :S |
| 00:23 |
|
kidclamp |
it is definitely difficult |
| 00:23 |
|
dcook |
any type? |
| 00:23 |
|
dcook |
What do you mean by "any type was table"? |
| 00:23 |
|
* kidclamp |
gets very bad at words when thinking talking RDF |
| 00:24 |
|
dcook |
I suppose I'm OK with using a relational database for a triplestore... unless it introduces pecularities that make it impossible to move to a native triplestore |
| 00:24 |
|
dcook |
But I suppose if we use enough layers of abstraction, we shouldn't have to worry about that |
| 00:24 |
|
dcook |
kidclamp: Have I shown you this link? http://linkeddatabook.com/editions/1.0/#htoc84 |
| 00:24 |
|
kidclamp |
any node that was a 'type' I think I mean class? |
| 00:24 |
|
dcook |
It was suggested to me by.. |
| 00:25 |
|
|
caboose joined #koha |
| 00:25 |
|
kidclamp |
basically if they had a bunch of things, each type of thing was a table |
| 00:25 |
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kmlussier joined #koha |
| 00:25 |
|
dcook |
This person: http://www.meanboyfriend.com/overdue_ideas/about/ |
| 00:25 |
|
dcook |
Hmm still not sure I follow |
| 00:25 |
|
dcook |
Are you meaning like auth, bib, hold or a different type of "type"? |
| 00:25 |
|
kidclamp |
RDF type/class |
| 00:25 |
|
dcook |
Or like "Work", "Instance", "Person" |
| 00:26 |
|
kidclamp |
that^ |
| 00:26 |
|
dcook |
Ah yeah I get you now |
| 00:26 |
|
dcook |
Yeah, that's another thing I've been thinking about |
| 00:26 |
|
dcook |
Which makes it so much harder I think.. haha |
| 00:29 |
|
dcook |
That's the thing I hate about RDF... it's so loose |
| 00:29 |
|
dcook |
Although little bit of trivia... |
| 00:29 |
|
dcook |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/[…]Metadata_Platform |
| 00:29 |
|
dcook |
XMP sidecar files use RDF |
| 00:29 |
|
kidclamp |
it feels like too much was done without enough thought on how it would actually work |
| 00:29 |
|
dcook |
So if you're using Lightroom or Darktable or whatever... you're using RDF O_O |
| 00:29 |
|
dcook |
kidclamp: I'm so in agreement there |
| 00:30 |
|
dcook |
Or maybe libraries are misunderstanding it all |
| 00:30 |
|
dcook |
Or I'm misunderstanding it all haha |
| 00:30 |
|
dcook |
It doesn't seem like it's really meant to be interoperable per se... |
| 00:31 |
|
dcook |
But that you can point to a thing and say "Yeah... that's the thing I'm talking about" |
| 00:31 |
|
dcook |
Like that OCLC example.. |
| 00:31 |
|
dcook |
You can say "Oh, I'm talking about http://dbpedia.org/resource/London" |
| 00:31 |
|
dcook |
And we all know you're talking about London, England once we've followed the links |
| 00:31 |
|
dcook |
But other than that... |
| 00:31 |
|
dcook |
it still seems like you need to do some work locally |
| 00:31 |
|
dcook |
And potentially hardcode a lot of things... or make complex mappings |
| 00:32 |
|
kidclamp |
yeah, you need to index the terms you are linking too if you want to search at all |
| 00:32 |
|
dcook |
search/display... yeah |
| 00:32 |
|
dcook |
Then keeping that up-to-date... |
| 00:32 |
|
dcook |
I think the keeping it up-to-date thing is what I struggle with most |
| 00:33 |
|
kidclamp |
caching and regular crawling seems to be the only theory |
| 00:33 |
|
dcook |
Yeah, I'd like to see some real life examples of it though |
| 00:33 |
|
dcook |
Especially since for updates, you need to delete your existing cache |
| 00:33 |
|
dcook |
Although I guess caches are supposed to be throwaway.. |
| 00:34 |
|
dcook |
I feel like if I could just find one good production example... I'd have more confidence in the whole thing |
| 00:34 |
|
dcook |
I wouldn't really want to repeat the Zebra debacle |
| 00:35 |
|
dcook |
I mean... Zebra works but I don't think they quite knew how it worked at the start |
| 00:36 |
|
kidclamp |
I think the more it is implemented the more different things will be done though |
| 00:37 |
|
dcook |
Linked Data? |
| 00:37 |
|
dcook |
Seems like |
| 00:37 |
|
kidclamp |
like ElasticSearch, we are using it for searching - that is the least of the things people use it for now |
| 00:37 |
|
dcook |
Yeah? |
| 00:37 |
|
wahanui |
hmmm... Yeah is there a good way to fix that to get the new one running? |
| 00:37 |
|
dcook |
I admit I haven't kept up with ES too much |
| 00:37 |
|
dcook |
I mostly see ads for it in conjunction with other modules though yeah |
| 00:39 |
|
kidclamp |
lots of statistics and logging stuff |
| 00:40 |
|
dcook |
Mmm I'd seen the logging thing. Is that with Kibana? |
| 00:40 |
|
dcook |
I met someone from ElasticSearch a couple years ago and meant to stay in touch but just been too busy :/ |
| 00:40 |
|
kidclamp |
I like the 'percolation' feature - using a search of existing documents to classify a new document |
| 00:40 |
|
kidclamp |
yeah, es |
| 00:40 |
|
wahanui |
i heard yeah, es was back working. Refactoring it to work with authorities at the moment |
| 00:40 |
|
kidclamp |
es + kibana is most common, because it works out of the box with no config basically |
| 00:40 |
|
kidclamp |
you don't have to build a search enginge :-) |
| 00:41 |
|
dcook |
:D |
| 00:41 |
|
dcook |
I do wonder sometimes though how sophisticated these searches are though |
| 00:41 |
|
dcook |
Mind you, there's the whole "full text indexing" is all you need |
| 00:41 |
|
dcook |
I haven't looked at Kibana though so I'm just rambling |
| 00:42 |
|
dcook |
What was I thinking of.. |
| 00:42 |
|
dcook |
Too many browser tabs |
| 00:42 |
|
dcook |
I'm looking at this at the moment: http://stanbol.apache.org/overview.html |
| 00:42 |
|
dcook |
But I don't think it's what I'm really looking for.. |
| 00:43 |
|
dcook |
Too bad the word semantic can be used in too many different ways :p |
| 00:44 |
|
kidclamp |
interesting looking though |
| 00:45 |
|
dcook |
I feel a bit like LIBRIS might not be using RDF "correctly"... |
| 00:45 |
|
dcook |
And that is adding to my confusion.. |
| 00:46 |
|
dcook |
http://linkeddatabook.com/editions/1.0/#htoc81 |
| 00:47 |
|
wizzyrea |
forget yeah |
| 00:47 |
|
wahanui |
wizzyrea: I forgot yeah |
| 00:48 |
|
dcook |
"Multiple Named Graphs can be represented together in the form of a graph set." that looks useful.. |
| 00:51 |
|
dcook |
Wonder if I hadn't read this before or just forgot about it since November 2015.. |
| 00:53 |
|
dcook |
So in this example... let's say we have an authority record about "Dave Smith" |
| 00:54 |
|
dcook |
It's time to refresh the data, so we start crawling the links... and we save the results to their own named graphs |
| 00:54 |
|
dcook |
Makes sense to me... I don't know how else you'd reasonably manage them.. |
| 00:55 |
|
dcook |
Although it still seems like you could wind up with a lot of useless data over time |
| 00:55 |
|
dcook |
I suppose you could have a cleanup job... |
| 00:56 |
|
dcook |
Checking every graph if it's referred to by another graph within the triplestore... |
| 00:56 |
|
dcook |
Because let's say that Dave moves away to the US from the UK. No longer lives near Birmingham. |
| 00:56 |
|
dcook |
We have this cached Birmingham graph |
| 00:57 |
|
dcook |
Even if we were manually updating the record on Dave... I don't think it would make sense to check at deletion time if anyone else is referring to that graph... as that would be a heavy processing job.. |
| 00:58 |
|
kidclamp |
need the RDF equivalent of 404 page - We deleted that info as it was old and moldy |
| 00:58 |
|
kidclamp |
please stop linking here |
| 00:59 |
|
dcook |
Yeah I think about that as well |
| 00:59 |
|
dcook |
I mean.. |
| 00:59 |
|
dcook |
If you're crawling and you get a 404... what do you do? |
| 00:59 |
|
dcook |
Maybe it's a case of a web app error and it will come back |
| 00:59 |
|
dcook |
Or maybe it's gone for good |
| 00:59 |
|
dcook |
I like the idea of linked data, but... |
| 01:00 |
|
dcook |
Not sure how practical it is :/ |
| 01:02 |
|
kidclamp |
don't tell talljoy, sometimes i like the idea of marc records supplemented by linked data - use the work links to aggregate, but keep our march there as the base for searching etc |
| 01:02 |
|
kidclamp |
shhhhhh |
| 01:02 |
|
dcook |
hehe |
| 01:03 |
|
dcook |
Arguably none of this is relevant for my work of course... |
| 01:04 |
|
dcook |
If I recall correctly, I'm supposed to just get the RDF in to the triplestore |
| 01:04 |
|
dcook |
But... I need to know how we're doing that a bit if I'm going to do that |
| 01:04 |
|
dcook |
So with Stockholm University Library, they're using OAI-PMH to get RDF records from LIBRIS |
| 01:04 |
|
dcook |
LIBRIS being the national library's union catalogue |
| 01:05 |
|
dcook |
Makes sense to me. Catalogue centrally is more efficient than duplicating effort across a country. |
| 01:05 |
|
dcook |
But it provides some problems.. |
| 01:05 |
|
dcook |
I've been thinking about saving those triples under a named graph with the name coming from Koha |
| 01:05 |
|
dcook |
But since Thursday I've been thinking... |
| 01:06 |
|
dcook |
I should use the URI from LIBRIS |
| 01:06 |
|
dcook |
and then in Koha... just have something like owl:sameAs |
| 01:06 |
|
dcook |
or koha:derivedFrom |
| 01:06 |
|
dcook |
Something like that |
| 01:06 |
|
dcook |
Maybe... koha:oai-pmh |
| 01:06 |
|
dcook |
So that we don't recrawl it... |
| 01:06 |
|
dcook |
Since my OAI-PMH harvester is pushing up-to-date records into the triplestore |
| 01:07 |
|
dcook |
We don't need a crawl to fetch them |
| 01:07 |
|
dcook |
Of course, I think this is a bit where old world and new world clash... shouldn't need OAI-PMH in theory |
| 01:07 |
|
dcook |
Not for updates |
| 01:07 |
|
* dcook |
shrugs |
| 01:07 |
|
dcook |
Complicated |
| 01:07 |
|
wahanui |
somebody said Complicated was far too mild a term to describe Search.pm. |
| 01:07 |
|
dcook |
Ouais, wahanui, ouais |
| 01:08 |
|
dcook |
Mmm, or... instead of koha:derivedFrom or whatever |
| 01:08 |
|
dcook |
I use OAI-PMH to save the LIBRIS record to a named graph |
| 01:08 |
|
dcook |
Then... create linkages automatically with a separate Koha named graph |
| 01:08 |
|
dcook |
Named graph for a Koha bib that is |
| 01:09 |
|
dcook |
Those linkages using predicates that are pre-agreed upon |
| 01:09 |
|
dcook |
Because the question becomes... what vocabulary/vocabularies do we use in Koha? |
| 01:10 |
|
dcook |
That kind of comes upa t http://linkeddatabook.com/editions/1.0/#htoc84 |
| 01:10 |
|
dcook |
"In order to understand as much Web data as possible, Linked Data applications translate terms from different vocabularies into a single target schema." |
| 01:10 |
|
dcook |
I think we can see that with OCLC |
| 01:11 |
|
dcook |
While it points to http://dbpedia.org/resource/London, it uses the "schema" schema |
| 01:11 |
|
dcook |
Instead of the schemas preferred by dbpedia |
| 01:11 |
|
dcook |
I assume they're mapped somewhere in OCLC's back-end |
| 01:11 |
|
dcook |
And that makes sense |
| 01:11 |
|
dcook |
Without those mappings... I think it would be impossible.. |
| 01:12 |
|
dcook |
Folk like Oslo Public Library and LIBRIS use their own schemas... |
| 01:12 |
|
dcook |
Whether Koha comes up with its own schema or uses an existing standard.. |
| 01:12 |
|
dcook |
kidclamp: And I think that's vitally important in terms of indexing the data |
| 01:12 |
|
wizzyrea |
https://xkcd.com/927/ |
| 01:12 |
|
dcook |
wizzyrea: I think that's my favourite xkcd of all time |
| 01:12 |
|
dcook |
That and the one about encryption |
| 01:13 |
|
dcook |
https://xkcd.com/538/ |
| 01:13 |
|
dcook |
That's the one |
| 01:13 |
|
dcook |
Bloody hell.. |
| 01:13 |
|
dcook |
Spanner came to mind before wrench |
| 01:13 |
|
dcook |
I'm being assimilated... |
| 01:13 |
|
kidclamp |
yeah, I am up in the air about choosing a schema |
| 01:14 |
|
dcook |
To be honest, I think it's somethign that should've happened a long time ago |
| 01:14 |
|
dcook |
MARC is a great interchange format, but I think its limitations... |
| 01:14 |
|
dcook |
Well they've hindered us I think |
| 01:15 |
|
kidclamp |
I think as long as we have a way to index any specific scheam we can get away with being fleixible, it just means a ton of mapping work - chossing one schema and running with that doesn't preclude supporting others, it just means we focus the work in one place |
| 01:15 |
|
dcook |
That's a good point |
| 01:15 |
|
dcook |
Not hard-coding things++ |
| 01:16 |
|
kidclamp |
agnosticism++ |
| 01:18 |
|
dcook |
I suppose that will have to be in the SPARQL.. |
| 01:18 |
|
dcook |
I really dislike how you can't really make parameterized SPARQL queries |
| 01:19 |
|
dcook |
But I suppose subjects and predicates should all be in URI format |
| 01:19 |
|
dcook |
So that should make data validation a bit easier |
| 01:19 |
|
dcook |
I keep thinking this is going to be so inefficient.. |
| 01:20 |
|
dcook |
Actually, I think we'd still need a single target schema |
| 01:20 |
|
dcook |
Well one way or another.. |
| 01:21 |
|
dcook |
In theory, Zebra could actually be used too. |
| 01:21 |
|
dcook |
Since it can handle any XML-based format |
| 01:23 |
|
dcook |
Vocabulary mapping... and that's how we get LIBRIS into a format Koha knows.. |
| 01:24 |
|
dcook |
But check this out: https://libris.kb.se/data/oaip[…]dataPrefix=rdfxml |
| 01:24 |
|
dcook |
At the top level we have kbv:Record |
| 01:25 |
|
dcook |
Then sdo:mainEntity then bf2:Instance then bf2:title then bf2:InstanceTitle then bf2:mainTitle |
| 01:25 |
|
dcook |
Just to get the title |
| 01:25 |
|
dcook |
I guess that would look something like... kbv:Record/sdo:mainEntity/bf2:instance/bf2:title/bf2:InstanceTitle/bf2:mainTitle in xpath.. |
| 01:30 |
|
kidclamp |
so simple |
| 01:30 |
|
dcook |
hehe |
| 01:30 |
|
dcook |
And surely there must be non-XML based mappings.. |
| 01:32 |
|
dcook |
http://data.linkedmdb.org/page/film/2014 |
| 01:32 |
|
dcook |
I've seen this with LIBRIS... a mix of their own schema and established schemas |
| 01:34 |
|
dcook |
Then on dbpedia: http://dbpedia.org/page/The_Shining_%28film%29 |
| 01:34 |
|
dcook |
Thte title is dbp:name |
| 01:34 |
|
dcook |
On linkedmdb they use dc:title |
| 01:34 |
|
dcook |
Let's say we were cataloguing The Shining in Koha.. |
| 01:35 |
|
dcook |
You'd maybe use owl:sameAS for linkedmdb and dbpedia.. |
| 01:35 |
|
dcook |
Maybe too a library database like LIBRIS, Library of Congress, National Library of Australia, etc |
| 01:35 |
|
dcook |
But then you might want to use your local schema that you could index easily.. |
| 01:36 |
|
dcook |
Now that I think about it... aren't we already using microdata... |
| 01:36 |
|
kidclamp |
supposedly at least :-) |
| 01:36 |
|
kidclamp |
but I am off for the night |
| 01:37 |
|
dcook |
I don't even know where you live so I can't hassle you :p |
| 01:37 |
|
dcook |
night in any case :) |
| 01:37 |
|
kidclamp |
I wish our time zones coincided when I was less tired :-) |
| 01:37 |
|
kidclamp |
Vermont, North East USA |
| 01:37 |
|
kidclamp |
UTC -5? |
| 01:37 |
|
dcook |
9:37pm, eh? Yeah I guess that's fair |
| 01:37 |
|
dcook |
That's my ideal bedtime :p |
| 01:37 |
|
kidclamp |
it's my beertime |
| 01:37 |
|
kidclamp |
then bedtime |
| 01:38 |
|
dcook |
Yeah I wish our time zones coincided more too |
| 01:38 |
|
dcook |
You have kids? |
| 01:38 |
|
kidclamp |
one |
| 01:38 |
|
kidclamp |
but he is the best one |
| 01:38 |
|
kidclamp |
:D |
| 01:38 |
|
dcook |
Oh man, I misread beertime as bedtime |
| 01:38 |
|
dcook |
hehe |
| 01:38 |
|
dcook |
That's what I always say too |
| 01:38 |
|
dcook |
Anyway, I won't keep you. Enjoy :) |
| 01:38 |
|
dcook |
I might send out another email... a much shorter one |
| 01:38 |
|
kidclamp |
go for it, I will talk with Joy and argue and respond :-) |
| 01:38 |
|
kidclamp |
night |
| 01:39 |
|
dcook |
hehe |
| 01:42 |
|
dcook |
Hmm... maybe using the schema.org schema would be a good place to start |
| 01:46 |
|
rangi |
we have schema.org support in koha already |
| 01:46 |
|
dcook |
rangi: Yeah, that's what I mean |
| 01:46 |
|
rangi |
and it is extensible |
| 01:46 |
|
dcook |
Well, in terms of microdata at least |
| 01:46 |
|
rangi |
yep |
| 01:46 |
|
dcook |
So that's really good |
| 01:47 |
|
dcook |
We could use that in a triplestore as well |
| 01:47 |
|
rangi |
https://bib.schema.org/ |
| 01:47 |
|
rangi |
we should use more of what is available here |
| 01:47 |
|
* dcook |
gives a thumbs up |
| 01:49 |
|
dcook |
So yeah... we already have embedded RDF statements using HTML+Microdata... |
| 01:49 |
|
dcook |
We could have those RDF statements in a triplestore... |
| 01:49 |
|
rangi |
yep a good starting point |
| 01:50 |
|
dcook |
Yeah, I think they all use literals for the moment but that's OK |
| 01:50 |
|
dcook |
As you say, good starting point |
| 01:50 |
|
rangi |
have you seen this? |
| 01:50 |
|
rangi |
http://linter.structured-data.[…]dl%253A%2520fiish |
| 01:50 |
|
dcook |
Nope |
| 01:51 |
|
dcook |
That's pretty coool |
| 01:52 |
|
dcook |
I wonder if there's a nicer way to do subjects than schema:keywords.. |
| 01:53 |
|
rangi |
probably |
| 01:53 |
|
dcook |
I wish I could see what OCLC is doing behind the scenes.. as I like some of their examples |
| 01:53 |
|
dcook |
http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/973430700 |
| 01:55 |
|
rangi |
right |
| 01:56 |
|
dcook |
Looking at theirs... I feel like <http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/973430700> is probably in a named graph |
| 01:56 |
|
dcook |
As are the "related entities" |
| 01:56 |
|
dcook |
And they've just aggregated them here on the page.. |
| 01:56 |
|
dcook |
Although they do it in the downloads too |
| 01:56 |
|
dcook |
Seemingly with SPARQL's DESCRIBE, although I haven't played with that in terms of named graphs yet |
| 01:58 |
|
dcook |
Probably wouldn't be that hard.. |
| 01:58 |
|
dcook |
rangi: The thing I find interesting with that example is the <http://dbpedia.org/resource/London> entry |
| 01:58 |
|
dcook |
schema:name is something that OCLC must have generated |
| 01:59 |
|
dcook |
As that triple doesn't exist in dbpedia |
| 01:59 |
|
dcook |
I reckon when they crawled the dbpedia URI... they must have run it through a mapper and only saved it with the mapped/filtered triples.. |
| 01:59 |
|
dcook |
Although I suppose they could've constructed the entity for display purposes here too.. |
| 02:00 |
|
dcook |
Now if you were to import this record from OCLC... |
| 02:00 |
|
dcook |
Well that's where my mind bends a bit.. |
| 02:01 |
|
dcook |
You've ordered "Good Omens" as you got a purchase request for it |
| 02:01 |
|
dcook |
You subscribe to Worldcat |
| 02:01 |
|
dcook |
You need a local record in your LMS so that your library patrons can find it |
| 02:02 |
|
dcook |
Do you just do a owl:sameAs? |
| 02:02 |
|
dcook |
Maybe you fill out some basic details for your indexer? |
| 02:03 |
|
dcook |
Using owl:sameAs or some alternative... perhaps you could define some rules to crawl that entity... |
| 02:03 |
|
dcook |
And show that somewhere on your web page.. |
| 02:03 |
|
dcook |
But that doesn't necessarily make sense.. |
| 02:06 |
|
rangi |
yep |
| 02:06 |
|
rangi |
you should really talk with teh Oslo people |
| 02:06 |
|
* dcook |
agrees |
| 02:06 |
|
rangi |
as they have a fully rdf based catalogue working |
| 02:07 |
|
rangi |
only ones in the world afaik |
| 02:07 |
|
dcook |
I think LIBRIS might be too, but I'm not 100% sure yet |
| 02:07 |
|
dcook |
Not sure if they're still demoing or not |
| 02:07 |
|
dcook |
Need to talk to them too |
| 02:07 |
|
rangi |
i think its still marc, that they render as rdf on the fly |
| 02:07 |
|
dcook |
Mmm, I don't think so |
| 02:07 |
|
dcook |
I took a look a bit at their github |
| 02:07 |
|
dcook |
Or maybe it used to be.. |
| 02:08 |
|
dcook |
I think now they have an editor (Catalinker) |
| 02:08 |
|
dcook |
And that saves to both the triplestore and Koha's marc database |
| 02:08 |
|
rangi |
ah cool |
| 02:08 |
|
dcook |
Didn't have enough time to totally go through it all |
| 02:08 |
|
rangi |
(i meant libris not oslo) |
| 02:08 |
|
dcook |
Do you know if that's all done by Petter or if they have others? |
| 02:08 |
|
rangi |
lots and lots of others |
| 02:08 |
|
dcook |
Yeah, the LIBRIS records are intense... and I'm not sure if they're 100% correct.. |
| 02:08 |
|
dcook |
Not enough experience to know for sure though |
| 02:08 |
|
rangi |
rurik is the main project/manager tech lead |
| 02:09 |
|
dcook |
Rurik Greenall? |
| 02:09 |
|
rangi |
yup |
| 02:09 |
|
dcook |
I figure if I can chat to them... they might be able to clarify everything |
| 02:09 |
|
rangi |
https://twitter.com/brinxmat |
| 02:10 |
|
dcook |
I mean... they're really the perfect people to talk to since they're interfacing with Koha too |
| 02:10 |
|
rangi |
drop him a tweet |
| 02:10 |
|
* dcook |
thumbs up |
| 02:10 |
|
rangi |
he was at Kohacon16 and gave a good talk at the hackfest |
| 02:10 |
|
dcook |
What was the talk about? |
| 02:11 |
|
dcook |
Oh wait hackfest... those wouldn't be recorded |
| 02:12 |
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| 02:13 |
|
dcook |
tweet sent |
| 02:13 |
|
dcook |
I think I can wrap my head around almost everything except copy cataloguing with RDF |
| 02:15 |
|
rangi |
heh, im not @rangi im @ranginui (just fyi) |
| 02:15 |
|
dcook |
Ah balls |
| 02:15 |
|
dcook |
I was going to double-check! |
| 02:16 |
|
ibeardslee |
check twice, tweet once |
| 02:16 |
|
dcook |
hehe |
| 02:16 |
|
dcook |
I haven't tweeted in too long... can't even find my own tweet now.. |
| 02:17 |
|
dcook |
Surely it show up under my tweets.. |
| 02:17 |
|
rangi |
https://twitter.com/minusdavid[…]54155774943154176 |
| 02:17 |
|
dcook |
Cheers |
| 02:18 |
|
dcook |
Don't know why it's not showing up in my UI |
| 02:18 |
|
dcook |
Ahh, because I don't understand conventions I guess.. |
| 02:19 |
|
dcook |
Tweets & replies rather than just Tweets... I guess because I @ed someone? |
| 02:19 |
|
rangi |
ah yeah |
| 02:20 |
|
dcook |
Hmmm https://bibflow.library.ucdavi[…]/copy-cataloging/ |
| 02:21 |
|
dcook |
Gotta love super low res images.. |
| 02:21 |
|
dcook |
I'm too young to be squinting.. |
| 02:22 |
|
dcook |
Interesting... it seems that they do download the OCLC graph.. |
| 02:23 |
|
dcook |
But maybe just into the cataloguer |
| 02:23 |
|
dcook |
That seems... |
| 02:24 |
|
dcook |
I'm intrigued by a RDF->MARC conversion as well. |
| 02:25 |
|
dcook |
As I don't see a lot of data out there about that, yet that seems to be what UCDavis and Oslo both do.. |
| 02:26 |
|
dcook |
Interesting... and they're using BIBFRAME... of some kind |
| 02:27 |
|
dcook |
I do wonder a bit about using some other tools for handling RDF records... and hooking them more loosely into Koha.. |
| 02:27 |
|
dcook |
Not that that is even anywhere near my problem atm.. |
| 02:30 |
|
dcook |
Actually, that all looks proposed... |
| 02:34 |
|
dcook |
https://news.minitex.umn.edu/n[…]d-data-cataloging |
| 02:35 |
|
dcook |
And this year the National Library of Finland is opening up its national bibliography as linked data it seems.. |
| 02:42 |
|
dcook |
So if you did download from http://www.worldcat.org/title/[…]ns/oclc/973430700 |
| 02:43 |
|
dcook |
You'd. |
| 02:43 |
|
dcook |
Would you stick them all in one named graph or break them up.. |
| 02:43 |
|
dcook |
If you broke them up, your schema:name would go into that named graph... |
| 02:56 |
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* magnuse |
waves |
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* dcook |
waves |
| 05:19 |
|
dcook |
Hey magnuse, chatting to @brinxmat on Twitter about LD atm |
| 05:20 |
|
dcook |
Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes at all |
| 05:20 |
|
dcook |
I think it relates to how I import/store the data though |
| 05:25 |
|
dcook |
At the moment, I'm thinking we download the records via OAI-PMH then... run them through a filter which creates triples that Koha can understand. Although we could also use SPARQL CONSTRUCT although that would in theory involve more hardcoding... |
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| 06:13 |
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magnuse |
dcook: sorry, was busy in another window |
| 06:13 |
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magnuse |
brinxmat probably has good advice |
| 06:15 |
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mveron |
Good morning / daytime #koha |
| 06:23 |
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| 06:26 |
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josef_moravec |
morning #koha |
| 06:31 |
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dcook |
magnuse: No worry. I have about a million different things happening at once anyway :) |
| 06:31 |
|
dcook |
4-5 always seems the busiest time of day! |
| 06:31 |
|
dcook |
magnuse: Unfortunately, I don't think he'll be able to help too much, but it'll be good to get some more details |
| 06:32 |
|
dcook |
They dont' used named graphs though which was interesting |
| 06:32 |
|
dcook |
Although maybe that's partially because they don't do any real linking |
| 06:32 |
|
dcook |
At least to outside entities |
| 06:32 |
|
dcook |
And they don't import RDF at all :/ |
| 06:36 |
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magnuse |
dcook: yeah, bit of a different use case, i guess |
| 06:45 |
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| 06:46 |
|
dcook |
Yeah maybe |
| 06:46 |
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alex_a |
bonjour |
| 06:46 |
|
wahanui |
hello, alex_a |
| 06:50 |
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| 06:51 |
|
reiveune |
hello |
| 06:51 |
|
wahanui |
salut, reiveune |
| 06:51 |
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|
oha |
o/ |
| 07:08 |
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| 07:14 |
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dcook |
oha... that name is familiar |
| 07:16 |
|
oha |
dcook: eheh, is it because (k)oha? :) |
| 07:17 |
|
dcook |
I don't think so... I'm sure I've seen your full name somewhere :p |
| 07:18 |
|
oha |
dcook: oh! not sure. i've used oha for more than 20 years now. |
| 07:20 |
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| 07:20 |
|
gaetan_B |
hello |
| 07:20 |
|
wahanui |
privet, gaetan_B |
| 07:27 |
|
oha |
speaking of oha vs koha, i usually add a "oha" comment when i change something so i can easily find it again. but with so many (k)oha strings this hasn't been working so well lately :) |
| 07:30 |
|
dcook |
hehe |
| 07:30 |
|
dcook |
Anyway, I better head out |
| 07:30 |
|
dcook |
Good luck Eurofolk |
| 07:36 |
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| 07:56 |
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fridolin |
hie there |
| 07:57 |
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fridolin |
happy Easter Egg :) |
| 07:57 |
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| 08:11 |
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magnus_breakfast |
\o/ |
| 08:21 |
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| 08:27 |
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magnuse |
kia ora cait |
| 08:28 |
|
cait |
hi magnuse |
| 08:28 |
|
wahanui |
kamelåså |
| 08:55 |
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| 09:18 |
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eythian |
hi |
| 09:18 |
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wahanui |
niihau, eythian |
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| 10:28 |
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magnuse |
ashimema: do you think it would make sense to try and get ILL as it stands now into 17.05? i should probably ask atheia... |
| 10:34 |
|
magnuse |
Feature Slush for 17.05 is May 5 2017 |
| 10:34 |
|
magnuse |
@later tell atheia do you think it would make sense to try and get ILL as it stands now into 17.05? |
| 10:34 |
|
huginn` |
magnuse: The operation succeeded. |
| 10:52 |
|
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| 10:55 |
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ashimema |
I'd love to see it in :) |
| 10:55 |
|
ashimema |
we use it in production allot |
| 11:23 |
|
* cait |
waves |
| 11:40 |
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| 11:45 |
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| 11:45 |
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magnuse |
ashimema: ah, if you use it in production that should be an "argument" for getting it in |
| 11:45 |
|
magnuse |
i have started to look at adapting my existing NNCIPP code, so I might be able to do a signoff pretty soon |
| 11:47 |
|
ashimema |
:) |
| 11:47 |
|
ashimema |
atheia will be super happy :) |
| 11:49 |
|
oha |
we will be too! |
| 11:50 |
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| 11:57 |
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toins |
hi all |
| 11:57 |
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| 12:01 |
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marcelr |
hi #koha |
| 12:02 |
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| 12:03 |
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* oleonard |
waves |
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| 12:21 |
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* mveron |
waves |
| 12:21 |
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* cait |
waves :) |
| 12:21 |
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mveron |
oleonard: Bug 7550 - what do you think about? |
| 12:21 |
|
huginn` |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7550 normal, P5 - low, ---, veron, Needs Signoff , Self checkout: limit display of patron image to logged-in patron |
| 12:22 |
|
oleonard |
I will take a look |
| 12:33 |
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oleonard |
mveron++ |
| 13:19 |
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mveron |
:-) |
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| 13:22 |
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cait |
mveron++ :) |
| 13:25 |
|
oleonard |
cait++ |
| 13:26 |
|
* cait |
didn't do much this release |
| 13:27 |
|
oleonard |
More than me :P |
| 13:28 |
|
cait |
revamping another website? :) |
| 13:29 |
|
oleonard |
Not a big project, just a lot of small ones |
| 13:30 |
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| 14:07 |
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marcelr |
Joubu: hi; any chance to have another look at the qa changes on the upload reports 17669/18300 ? |
| 14:12 |
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| 14:17 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
Hello friends. Please help me with something. I am trying to locate in the database a table wich store the words searched in OPAC as anonymous user (no login in OPAC). Do you know where can I find it? |
| 14:19 |
|
oleonard |
Mauricio_BR: Where do you see it? |
| 14:20 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
i am looking for it in the tables of the database |
| 14:21 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
i have the 16.05 ver. of Koha |
| 14:21 |
|
oleonard |
Why are you looking for it? |
| 14:21 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
because i am working with datamining... |
| 14:21 |
|
kidclamp |
I don't think search history is sotred unless the user is logged in |
| 14:21 |
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| 14:22 |
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oleonard |
Oh I misunderstood what you were asking |
| 14:22 |
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oleonard |
Thought you were asking about a text string |
| 14:22 |
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Mauricio_BR |
oh, sorry |
| 14:22 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
my english is not good as you can see... haha |
| 14:23 |
|
oleonard |
Better than my... Every other language which exists. |
| 14:23 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
XD |
| 14:24 |
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oleonard |
Mauricio_BR: Have you looked at the 'search_history' table? I think kidclamp is right: I only see entries for logged-in users. |
| 14:24 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
yes |
| 14:25 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
but in this table every record has a user field |
| 14:25 |
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eythian |
isn't there a special user it becomes if it's anonymous that's configured by a syspref? |
| 14:25 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
so it is bound to a user |
| 14:26 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
there is the user with id 0 but it seems to be the admin |
| 14:26 |
|
oleonard |
The AnonymousPatron pref says "(for anonymous suggestions and reading history)" |
| 14:28 |
|
kidclamp |
in the code it seems non-logged in history is stored for session, but not in db |
| 14:29 |
|
kidclamp |
we only save in the table if we have a logged in user |
| 14:29 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
http://translate.koha-communit[…]l#AnonSuggestions |
| 14:30 |
|
eythian |
ah, suggestions not history. I misremembered. |
| 14:32 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
yes |
| 14:32 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
is only for suggestions and/or reading history items. |
| 14:33 |
|
Mauricio_BR |
ok, thanks guys for the information. |
| 14:33 |
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oleonard |
Are searches logged by zebra? |
| 14:34 |
|
kidclamp |
could be a development though, seems possible in existing code to support saving as anonymous patron - but would want tied to syspref |
| 14:35 |
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| 14:40 |
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cait |
i think it#s in a cookie before you log in? |
| 14:40 |
|
cait |
the search history |
| 14:40 |
|
cait |
you could use a tool like piwik to get the searches |
| 14:40 |
|
cait |
from the urls |
| 14:45 |
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| 14:50 |
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Mauricio_BR |
Thank you Cait oleonard kidclamp ;) |
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barton |
good morning #koha! |
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reiveune |
bye |
| 16:39 |
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| 16:59 |
|
oleonard |
I'm surprised Koha doesn't have OpenSearch for the OPAC |
| 17:00 |
|
oleonard |
I'm surprised I haven't wished Koha had OpenSearch for the OPAC enough yet to submit a patch. |
| 17:02 |
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| 17:43 |
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magnuse |
oleonard: i thought koha had opensearch? |
| 17:43 |
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| 17:44 |
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magnuse |
is it something else that is used to show results from kete in koha and vise versa? |
| 17:44 |
|
oleonard |
It can provide OpenSearch results, if I recall correctly, but it doesn't enable auto-discovery of search to browsers |
| 17:44 |
|
magnuse |
ah |
| 17:44 |
|
oleonard |
So you can't add the OPAC as a search engine in Firefox |
| 17:44 |
|
oleonard |
(easily) |
| 17:44 |
|
magnuse |
gotcha! |
| 17:45 |
|
magnuse |
patches are welcome ;-) |
| 17:45 |
|
oleonard |
I hope to do so |
| 17:56 |
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| 17:56 |
|
* magnuse |
will try to squeeze in a signoff |
| 19:17 |
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| 19:52 |
|
CrispyBran |
https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=18450 |
| 19:52 |
|
huginn` |
Bug 18450: major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Renew in header bypasses hold block and renewal limits |
| 19:58 |
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| 20:00 |
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Joubu |
I'd like a English native speaker to take a look at bug 18432 |
| 20:00 |
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huginn` |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=18432 trivial, P5 - low, ---, ephetteplace, Signed Off , Most code comments assume male gender |
| 20:00 |
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Joubu |
to me it does not make sense to make these changes as it is only in code comments |
| 20:02 |
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CrispyBran |
Joubu: really? Someone is going to waste programmer time with this? |
| 20:02 |
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Joubu |
can be replaced by she or whateber |
| 20:02 |
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Joubu |
whatever |
| 20:02 |
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Joubu |
but "he or she" just make things heavy to read IMO |
| 20:02 |
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wahanui |
and ever, amen. |
| 20:02 |
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* Joubu |
trolls and goes out |
| 20:05 |
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* CrispyBran |
thinks all references to librarians should be in animal or vegetable form. |
| 20:05 |
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* cait |
waves |
| 20:06 |
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cait |
CrispyBran: can you demonstrate this in a sentence? :) |
| 20:06 |
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CrispyBran |
'When a carrot manages the suggestion, it can set the status to "REJECTED" or "ACCEPTED".' |
| 20:06 |
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* cait |
has to admit a 'he' in a comment doesn't stop me |
| 20:06 |
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cait |
hm stop her |
| 20:06 |
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cait |
? |
| 20:06 |
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cait |
lol |
| 20:07 |
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cait |
when a notice with the code ACCEPTED is set up, a message will be sent from the kitten to the patron. |
| 20:07 |
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cait |
? |
| 20:08 |
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| 20:08 |
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cait |
hm this vegetable needs to do laundry, brb |
| 20:09 |
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CrispyBran |
:) |
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| 20:14 |
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| 20:16 |
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| 20:17 |
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CrispyBran |
I am not sure how reference to a particular gender as an EXAMPLE proves to be problematic. If a programmer has issue with this, there are deeper issues that should be addressed, rather than taking offense at an example. |
| 20:19 |
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CrispyBran |
If we changed the language to female, I seriously doubt we'd lose any of the male programmers. Anyway, that's all the energy I can contribute to this topic. Moving on to problematic code. |
| 20:47 |
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rangi |
just use they |
| 20:48 |
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rangi |
problem solved |
| 20:48 |
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rangi |
there is no reason to ever need to use gendered language in an example |
| 20:52 |
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rangi |
http://timesofindia.indiatimes[…]show/55395836.cms |
| 20:52 |
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rangi |
it is actually important |
| 20:53 |
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rangi |
in fact, im gonna put my time where my mouth is and do a follow up doing that |
| 20:56 |
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cait |
if we want to change it permanently, maybe we should also have a coding guideline |
| 20:56 |
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cait |
so people are more aware? |
| 20:56 |
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cait |
i think some of the he/she/they problem is non native speakers not being aware of the neutral forms and how to use them |
| 20:57 |
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cait |
i didn't know until not so long ago |
| 20:57 |
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| 20:59 |
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rangi |
yeah, mÄori has no gendered pronouns so it is easy |
| 20:59 |
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rangi |
and in english, they can be singular or plural, so easy to always use that |
| 21:00 |
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rangi |
if we get the base neutral, individual communities can decide how to deal with the translations |
| 21:01 |
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Joubu |
the patch is only about comments, so no translation needed |
| 21:01 |
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Joubu |
apparently the problem does not appear on the interface |
| 21:01 |
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rangi |
cool, ill update it now(ish) |
| 21:07 |
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rangi |
Joubu: thanks for the work on the onboarding tool |
| 21:07 |
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rangi |
and its good to see hea2 live too |
| 21:08 |
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cait |
Joubu++ |
| 21:08 |
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rangi |
If the user logged in is the SCO user and they try to go out the SCO module, log the user out removing the CGISESSID cookie |
| 21:08 |
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rangi |
i think that is less clunky than he or she eh? |
| 21:09 |
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rangi |
ill also fix the english |
| 21:09 |
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rangi |
to out of the SCO :-) |
| 21:11 |
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Joubu |
yep, apparently hea will not be backported this month, but should be next month :) |
| 21:11 |
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cait |
i'd like to get the translators on it too - but will try to push it eraly |
| 21:12 |
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cait |
have to figure out the schema changes too i think |
| 21:13 |
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Joubu |
cait: do not worry with the schema changes, now we have check to avoid failures on upgrade |
| 21:13 |
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Joubu |
a simple c/p of the DB rev from master should be enough |
| 21:13 |
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cait |
just something i haven't done so far :) |
| 21:13 |
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cait |
oh? |
| 21:13 |
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cait |
so i don't need to regenerate? |
| 21:14 |
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alexbuckley |
Yes thank you for the work on the onboarding tool Joubu |
| 21:14 |
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Joubu |
ha dbic schema you meant, yes you will have |
| 21:14 |
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Joubu |
thx for the quick signoff alexbuckley :) |
| 21:15 |
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alexbuckley |
No worries :) |
| 21:15 |
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Joubu |
just hope you did not signoff because you gave up! |
| 21:16 |
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Joubu |
have to run, see you tomorrow :) |
| 21:16 |
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alexbuckley |
Nope I did like your changes, better to see fewer screens by having the additional info about how to create things on the same page as the forms for example |
| 21:19 |
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| 21:23 |
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wizzyrea |
confetti! |
| 21:23 |
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wahanui |
confetti is, like, http://25.media.tumblr.com/tum[…]1qh8hleo1_400.gif |
| 21:23 |
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wizzyrea |
more confetti! |
| 21:23 |
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wahanui |
o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' |
| 21:24 |
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rangi |
hi talljoy |
| 21:25 |
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talljoy |
hiya rangi! |
| 21:28 |
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| 22:01 |
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| 23:09 |
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CrispyBran |
Joubu: when you create a patch and someone says it doesn't apply, what do I need to do on my end? |
| 23:09 |
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wizzyrea |
rebase it, probably |
| 23:10 |
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wizzyrea |
(but it depends on the error message) |
| 23:12 |
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CrispyBran |
do I just to a git pull on the master, test my patch again and then obsolete and attach again? |
| 23:12 |
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wizzyrea |
that might do it |
| 23:12 |
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wizzyrea |
you could also check out a clean master, and cherry pick your patch over |
| 23:12 |
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wizzyrea |
if it works, yay |
| 23:13 |
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wizzyrea |
reattach |
| 23:13 |
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wizzyrea |
if not, find out why, and fix that. |
| 23:13 |
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wizzyrea |
the approach really depends on how it's not applying |
| 23:13 |
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wizzyrea |
fixing a "insufficient blobs" is way different from say, a merge conflict |
| 23:14 |
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wizzyrea |
either way you'll know when you go to bz apply the patch on current master. |
| 23:14 |
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wizzyrea |
so that's where to start. |
| 23:22 |
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CrispyBran |
Thanks for the info. |
| 23:22 |
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CrispyBran |
Have a good one. |
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