IRC log for #koha, 2016-11-25

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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00:20 dcook Mojolicious is still optional in Koha, yeah?
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01:55 sunny hello everyone! i come from china,my english is not good . i'm looking for help.
01:56 wizzyrea hi, we can help :)
01:56 wizzyrea (usually)
02:00 sunny thank you so much . i want to install koha on debian following the instruction about apache,mysql ,at the end ,there is a system maintenance
02:00 wizzyrea ok, Koha has two virtualhosts, you are going to the public (opac) one
02:00 wizzyrea you need to go to the staff interface one
02:01 sunny i want it run on local
02:01 sunny or on lan
02:01 wizzyrea how are you accessing (with what address) what you are seeing now?
02:01 sunny
02:02 wizzyrea ok, in your apache configuration for the site /etc/apache2/sites-available/<instancename>.conf
02:02 wizzyrea you will see two virtualhost entries
02:02 wizzyrea the first one is labeled OPAC
02:03 wizzyrea the next one is labeled Intranet
02:03 sunny let me see
02:03 sunny hold on
02:03 wizzyrea what you probably want to do is to put the intranet site on a different port
02:04 wizzyrea so then you'd access it with (just as an example)
02:05 wizzyrea or, you can paste what is in that config file to
02:05 wizzyrea and let us look at what you've got in there :)
02:06 sunny ok .i just open <instancename>.conf
02:08 wizzyrea well <instancename> is what you called your instance when you created your instance
02:08 wizzyrea you did something like koha-create --create-db NAME
02:08 wizzyrea "NAME" is your instance name
02:08 sunny library is my instance name
02:09 wizzyrea so it would be /etc/apache2/sites-available/library.conf
02:09 sunny yes
02:09 wizzyrea :D
02:11 sunny "labeled OPAC" means
02:11 wizzyrea right, that will be the one you are seeing when you go to
02:12 sunny then i should visit ""?
02:13 wizzyrea that will work if you have dns set up for that
02:13 wizzyrea the other option is to change the top from to for that intranet virtualhost
02:14 sunny it works
02:14 wahanui For now...
02:14 wizzyrea YAY
02:14 sunny thank you so much
02:14 wizzyrea you are welcome
02:14 sunny now i should do web install
02:15 wizzyrea yes!
02:16 sunny if someone in same lan, visit the addr too?
02:16 wizzyrea if they have DNS for it to point to your machine, it should work
02:16 wizzyrea (for linux you could define it in /etc/hosts)
02:20 sunny my koha server is virtual host. if i want visit with ip addr in lan,what should i do?
02:22 wizzyrea you would have to use ports to set the two virtualhosts apart
02:22 wizzyrea or you could configure the local hosts file to map the names without DNS
02:22 wizzyrea[…]tchosts-equi.html
02:23 wizzyrea ^ very small explanation
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02:27 sunny thank you . i have a visiter ..wait for second
02:46 sunny i am  so exciting to see "welcome to the koha web installer"  haha
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05:44 drojf morning #koha
05:44 irma joined #koha
05:44 * dcook waves
05:50 drojf hi dcook
05:53 dcook heya drojf :)
05:53 dcook I'm working away on the OAI stuff..
05:53 dcook Sooo many unit tests..
05:53 drojf heh
05:54 dcook It's been too long since I've contributed a patch via Bugzilla
05:54 dcook I have no idea what will be accepted anymore
05:54 dcook Oh... and I'll probably want to talk to you at some point
05:55 drojf you will find out :P
05:55 dcook I'm wondering if /var/spool/koha/<instance> has to be owned by root...
05:55 dcook As it would be useful for other bits of Koha
05:55 dcook That need to spool data for later processing
05:55 dcook ie I want to save XML records there temporarily :p
05:55 drojf i think some parts are, others would break
05:56 dcook At a glance, I think the only thing in there are backups?
05:56 dcook Which have root as an owner and a group of the koha-instance user?
05:56 drojf like, the config part of the backups is owned by root and the sql by koha user
05:56 drojf i think
05:56 dcook Right, but the directory itself is owned by root, which prevents a person from changing directories into it
05:56 dcook I was wondering if we could have the koha user own the directory
05:57 dcook But keep the permissions for the files the same
05:57 * dcook emailed the listserv about this a while ago but got no response, but it doesn't quite seem like a Bugzilla issue
05:57 drojf oh, don't remember reading that
05:57 dcook I don't know Debian packaging well enough to craft a patch
05:57 dcook I think it was a while ago.
05:57 dcook Before you took over the packaging I think
05:58 drojf do you need the whole directory? if you want to have tmp xml data there, that coul dhave its own sub dir maybe
05:59 dcook Ideally I'd have a subdirectory
05:59 dcook But I couldn't reach it if spool/<kohainstance> is owned by root
06:00 dcook At least, with whatever the current permissions are
06:00 drojf you could if the sub directory us yours
06:00 drojf is
06:00 dcook Yeah? Sweet
06:00 dcook Yeah, that's all I need
06:00 drojf i don't see why not
06:01 drojf but its 7 am and i did not have coffee :D
06:01 dcook I think you're right
06:01 dcook I've found that to be the case on my phone
06:01 dcook I can't always cd to a directory, but I can get to a subdirectory
06:01 dcook Or maybe I'm thinking of something else
06:01 dcook Let me do a little test..
06:02 dcook Hmm I don't have a Debian system handy..
06:02 dcook Vbox starts fast enough I guess..
06:02 * dcook waits
06:05 dcook Ok let's see..
06:05 dcook We have /var/spool/koha/<instance>
06:05 dcook 755 root:root
06:05 dcook Huh..
06:05 dcook Oh... I see what I must've been thinking
06:06 dcook Yeah, if I could get the package to create a subdirectory owned by the koha user that would be great
06:06 dcook drojf: What would I need to give to you for that?
06:06 * dcook is very familiar with building RPMs now but needs to get to Deb packages..
06:07 drojf ok then i want a koha rpm package i return
06:07 drojf lol
06:07 dcook : p
06:07 dcook Not that hard really
06:07 dcook The worst part is the deps
06:07 drojf that's always the worst part
06:07 dcook Which one person has actually put a repository up for..
06:07 * drojf sighs
06:08 dcook We should put that repo up somewhere
06:08 drojf oh nice
06:08 dcook drojf: scripts/koha-create-dirs ?
06:08 dcook I think that's the one
06:08 drojf yes i think that is the thing
06:08 dcook Yiiiiisss
06:08 dcook Ok, cool. I'll add a change to that
06:08 drojf yay
06:09 jois joined #koha
06:09 dcook I like how I solved that problem on my own in the end lol
06:09 jois hi
06:09 dcook The support was good though!
06:09 dcook hey jois
06:09 drojf lol dcook
06:09 jois what is  MARC21?
06:09 wahanui somebody said MARC21 was at[…]hic/ecbdlist.html ,
06:14 drojf @wunder sxf
06:14 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Schoenefeld, Germany is -1.0°C (6:50 AM CET on November 25, 2016). Conditions: Light Freezing Fog. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Steady).
06:14 drojf oh
06:14 drojf :/
06:17 dcook @wunder syd
06:17 huginn dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, Australia is 22.0°C (5:00 PM AEDT on November 25, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
06:17 dcook Oh that's not too bad..
06:17 irma jois MARC21 is a standard for entering bibliographic information into a computer record that can be used by library automation systems to provide a library catalogue.
06:18 dcook drojf: Hmm I think maybe I've screwed up Makefile.PL then if it's supposed to use scripts/koha-create-dirs
06:18 dcook But it's 5:18pm..
06:20 jois is there any demo or video tutorials to learn all the features of koha?
06:20 dcook jois: Bywater Solutions have a bunch of Youtube videos
06:21 dcook Hmm maybe I won't worry about Makefile.PL
06:21 dcook I followed the same pattern as Zebra, and I think that'll be OK
06:21 dcook I'm sure you'll tell me if it's wrong in the end, drojf : )_
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06:27 drojf dcook: it's only for debian, so is probably not the right place. but to be honest i never added a folder to koha before
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07:13 LibraryClaire hi #koha :)
07:14 drojf guten morgen GuteLauneKlara
07:14 * magnuse waves
07:14 LibraryClaire :D
07:15 laurence joined #koha
07:15 LibraryClaire moin drojf
07:15 LibraryClaire hej magnus
07:15 magnuse guten morgen BüchereiKlara und drojf
07:15 LibraryClaire *magnuse
07:15 magnuse heute fahren wir nach hamburg!
07:15 drojf wie schön
07:15 magnuse ja, sehr gut!
07:15 LibraryClaire hihi
07:19 LibraryClaire magnuse: how long are you going to be in Hamburg?
07:20 magnuse from this evening until midday wednesday
07:20 magnuse so 4 whole days
07:20 LibraryClaire nice :)
07:21 magnuse yup
07:22 magnuse went there for swib 3 years ago
07:34 marcelr joined #koha
07:34 marcelr hi #koha
07:34 LibraryClaire hi marcelr
07:34 marcelr hi LibraryClaire
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07:46 alex_a bonjour
07:46 wahanui what's up, alex_a
07:54 Joubu Hi
07:54 wahanui privet, Joubu
07:54 fridolin hie there
07:54 LibraryClaire hi Joubu
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07:55 reiveune hello
07:55 wahanui hey, reiveune
07:57 LibraryClaire hi reiveune
07:57 reiveune salut LibraryClaire
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08:34 gaetan_B hello
08:35 cait morning gaetan_B :)
08:35 cait morning #koha
08:35 gaetan_B morning cait :)
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08:37 sunny hello. everyone,i got a problem.when i doing web installer step3,click "import", there is a sofeware error
08:38 cait which version?
08:38 wahanui well, which version is recommended?
08:38 cait and what is the error?
08:38 Joubu check logs to know what is the error
08:39 sunny DBIx::Class::Storage::DBI::_dbh-execute(): Date truncated for column 'type ' at......
08:39 sunny koha 16.05
08:39 wahanui koha 16.05 is just 3.24
08:40 sunny stable
08:40 sunny not old stable
08:41 sunny my english is not well
08:41 drojf technically, it is oldstable now
08:41 drojf but the repository is not changed yet
08:42 * drojf adds some confusion, leaves for tea
08:43 sunny should i re-install ?
08:47 Stompro joined #koha
09:02 Joubu sunny: nope, it seems that you are using MySQL > 5.6 or 5.7
09:03 Joubu sunny: try to remove the STRICT_TRANS_TABLES sql_mode from your mysql config file
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09:45 eythian hi
09:45 wahanui salut, eythian
09:51 marcelr hi eythian
09:52 Francesca joined #koha
09:53 marcelr Joubu: bug 17676 why not do a CONVERT TO and only change tagsubfield afterwards in the old db rev 3.19 instead of going through all fields ? You did a convert for all other tables
09:53 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=17676 critical, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Default COLLATE for marc_subfield_structure is not set
09:54 Joubu marcelr: the convert will fail if there are lower and upercase
09:54 marcelr sure?
09:54 wahanui sure is :)
09:55 Joubu marcelr: I think I have tried yesterday yes
09:55 marcelr will do some testing too, thx
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10:09 ashimema joubu.. do you understand the crazy syntax being used in paths.json for the swagger routing?
10:09 ashimema the ~1 cruft that's in there..
10:10 Joubu ashimema: no idea
10:10 ashimema It got dismissed with a sweeping statement of 'it's best practice' at the hackfest.. but I've never seen it anywhere before and googling turns up nothing.. and all it appears to do to me is make it much harder to read
10:10 ashimema :(
10:11 Joubu Is not a swagger separator?
10:22 ashimema it's nothing I've ever come across working with swagger for the past 2 years
10:22 ashimema in either swagger or mojo
10:23 ashimema to me.. it's adding crap for adding craps sake ;)
10:24 ashimema we've split up out spec way too much too.. I'm pretty sure I said not to split it the way it's ended up :(
10:24 ashimema you loose huge amounts of context
10:24 ashimema oh well
10:24 ashimema I'm coming back on the scene and intend on fixing lots of this..
10:24 ashimema but I'd really like to know the reasons behind some of e decisions in the first place..
10:25 * cait waves
10:26 Joubu you should see with Lari
10:26 Joubu lari: ^
10:46 marcelr Joubu: i once saw a change to lowercase in my testing, but cannot reproduce it anymore ;) no fails btw in 5.5
10:59 magnuse lunchtime!
10:59 wahanui lunchtime is a terrible time for a meeting
10:59 magnuse so true
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11:53 magnuse kia ora petter!
11:53 magnuse have fun #koha!
12:00 petter hei magnus!
12:25 lari ashimema: hi :) ! the crazy ~1 is an escaped slash in JSON pointer, as defined in
12:28 ashimema hmm.. it's nice to have a reference for it
12:29 ashimema I think we loose too much context with the way we split up our spec
12:41 marcelr bug 17681
12:41 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=17681 trivial, P5 - low, ---,, Needs Signoff , Exiisting typos might thow some feees when recieved
12:41 marcelr i like the title
12:48 cait hm no kidclamp
12:50 marcelr hi cait
12:51 marcelr you don't have a branch yet ?
12:52 lari ashimema: can you explain your thoughts bit more? what would you prefer instead? maybe e-mail me
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12:53 rsantellan good morning #koha
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13:15 ashimema lari.. when i get a moment I'll submit a patchset to tidy them into a more manageable standards based set of splits..
13:16 ashimema things like moving parameters out of the path definition make very little sense.. you need that context in the path definition to understand what the route is meant to do
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13:29 cait @later tell marcelr I don't think so - the plan is to start on monday, but no bug fixes pushed so far
13:29 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
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14:41 fridolin whaaouuuu Bug 15111
14:41 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15111 critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle, RESOLVED FIXED, Koha is vulnerable to Cross-Frame Scripting (XFS) attacks
14:41 fridolin it means Koha staff interface can to be used without JS anymore
14:41 fridolin 0%
14:41 fridolin its a choc
14:41 fridolin i was running with JS off via Firebug for tests
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15:36 LibraryClaire laters #koha
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15:45 liw I sent a mail to koha-devel a little while ago, but it's not gone through. I the list moderated for non-subscribers? I've since subscribed, but that' be too late
15:45 drojf liw: i bet it is, the main list is too. for spam reasons
15:46 drojf liw: resend? or poke someone at biblibre, but i forgot who does the mailing lists
15:46 liw I fully understand
15:46 drojf If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
15:46 liw I could resend but it might result in duplicates if the moderator approvaes the first one  later
15:47 liw but that might be an acceptable risk
15:47 drojf just resend
15:47 drojf we will survive a duplicate
15:47 liw ok, thanks
15:51 drojf tl;dr
15:51 drojf :P
15:52 liw heh
15:52 drojf liw: i think rangi brought up qvarn at an irc meeting but we postponed it (or i forgot what it was about). i did not know you are involved
15:54 drojf ah.[…]6-11-09#i_1876711
15:54 drojf don't remember that at all, i guess i missed it
15:55 cait liw++ :)
15:55 ashimema_ didn't realise you had anything to do with qvarn liw
15:56 ashimema_ liw we do have dbix::class and koha::objects..
15:57 cait just the transition time is a little odd
15:57 ashimema_ and the codebase is generally being refactored to use them.. it just takes times
15:57 cait 2014?
15:57 wahanui 2014 is probably gonna be great
15:58 drojf rangi changed it to end of next year in the meeting
15:58 drojf according to the log
15:59 drojf "The regulation was adopted on 27 April 2016. It enters into application 25 May 2018 after a two-year transition period"
15:59 drojf[…]ection_Regulation
16:00 reiveune bye
16:00 reiveune left #koha
16:01 ashimema_ Qvarn is interesting.. and you've identified my biggest issue with koha.. that controller and model are not well separated yet.. but I don't tihnk we're in any position to switch to 'yet another data store' any time soon.. we need to actualyl abstract out the model first.. be that koha::objects, dbic whatever
16:02 ashimema_ that's my thoughts anyways
16:04 liw ah, I didn't notice there was already  movement towards the abstraction I was suggesting
16:05 ashimema_ yeah.. it's slow and painful ;)
16:05 liw I don't expect Qvarn adoption by Koha, if it ever happens, to happen soon. big old code bases move slowly
16:05 ashimema_ yeah..
16:05 ashimema_ I am interesting in Qvarn though.. I don't entirely understand it's use case though yet ;)
16:06 ashimema_ to me it feels like another datastore (elastic search, mongdb, postgres, mysql even) with a secure web facing api
16:06 ashimema_ I'm likely missing somthing
16:09 ashimema_ with an IdP built in
16:10 ashimema_ I really want to built OAuth2 Authorization into koha's rest api and adopt OpenID Connect for authentication.. so perhaps Qbarn can give us some of that 'for free' as such?
16:11 liw ashimema_, qvarn uses openid connect (which is built on top of oauth2) and the idp (gluu) is installed with it, yes
16:12 liw ashimema_, also I think you understand qvarn fairly well, in fact; it doesn't do much (no application logic, for example), but tries to do what it does well
16:14 ashimema_ :)
16:18 ashimema is it meant as a central location for just the personal data.. so is one meant to use it alongside an application level datastore?
16:18 * ashimema is still digging into the use case ;)
16:22 liw it's meant to be the storage backend for a web application, the way a relational database is (butt with better privacty)
16:22 ashimema I don't understand how it provides better privacy I suppose
16:22 ashimema that's the missing link in my head I think
16:23 ashimema I'm spamming the main chat.. sorry everyone..
16:23 drojf ashimema: please go on
16:24 drojf not much to contribute but interested and reading
16:24 rsantellan same here
16:24 ashimema I feel I'm asking the right questions.. though I might be appearing a bit ignorant/dim ;)
16:24 liw ashimema, all access goes via a single point that provides much more detailed access control than sql does
16:26 liw I'm not sure I'm good at explaining this either
16:27 ashimema So.. in my head
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16:27 ashimema one accesses a datastore as a 'user', and that user has certian rights to take certain actions on various bits of that datastore
16:28 ashimema in the SQL world, said user can be limited down to the table level as to what they can do with that data (select, update, insert, delete etc, etc)
16:28 ashimema the 'user' in 99% of cases is actually the 'application' and thus is usually given lots of rights all over the place..
16:29 ashimema and then the application is responsible for the 'person' whose accessing the application to only be able to retrieve the data they have rights upon
16:29 ashimema am I right in thinking that qvarn in effect brings this layer 'in house'
16:30 ashimema i.e. your always looking at data from an individual 'persons' stance as a posed to the 'application'
16:30 liw with qvarn the actual user and the application can authenticate separately (though this isn't fully done yet), and access control can be decided (once qvarn is written to support it) based also on things like strength of authn
16:30 ashimema ahh.. strength of authn
16:30 ashimema ok.. now that sounds like a fairly nice addition
16:30 liw (or time of day or whatever one can implement)
16:31 ashimema interesting
16:31 wahanui interesting is, like, sometimes good and sometimes bad
16:31 liw ashimema, and yes, bringing it "in house" is a good way to describe it
16:33 ashimema so is the application developer responsible for saying what authorization level different data's are restricted to?
16:34 ashimema so it sort of feels like just trying to standardise a description of access
16:34 liw yeah
16:35 ashimema cool.. I understand.. it's a strong encouragement.. practically enforcement once you've made the choice to use qvarn.. to follow privacy best practices.. that many of us overlook with current systems
16:35 ashimema I see..
16:35 ashimema is there anything to prevent the developer from just say.. sod this i'll attach with the highest access user to make my life easier when developing
16:35 ashimema which is in effect what people do now ;)
16:36 ashimema So koha as an example
16:36 ashimema we connect to mysql/postgres with an all powerful db user
16:36 liw one aspect koha would need to deal with is the modelling of the data into json objects, which is potentially a lot of work but can be good in the long run; also, qvarn support versioning of resource types and handsles most of the schema changes automatically, in case that's of interest
16:37 ashimema it's then upto the application logic to prevent leaks.. which we're mostly good at catching during qa
16:37 liw ashimema, the app doesn't get to choose, the "sysadmin" configures that in Gluu
16:37 ashimema in the qvarn sense.. because your connecting to the datastore with a reduced privilege the code wuoldn't be able to continue unless it's written well enough to deal with the restricted privilege
16:38 ashimema coolios.. yes.. i do undertsand then now
16:39 liw sounds like you do, yes
16:40 ashimema so.. Gluu, the IdP authenticates the 'person' and the 'application'..  (as that's what an IdP does).. the rights of what the application can do on the persons behalf with their data are defined in Gluu.
16:40 liw qvarn isn't the ultimate solution to every problem in computing. give me time :)
16:40 rsantellan liw: I understand in a sense the borrowers information becuase acording to qvarn is dealing with sensitive nature data, but I don't see the benefit of moving all the data from a relational DB to qvarn
16:41 liw rsantellan, that's a good point
16:41 ashimema so Gluu is the abstraction of where the levels of permissions go.. Qvarn is the thing that understands those permissions relations to actual data
16:41 liw ashimema, yep
16:41 ashimema yeah.. what rsantellan said ;)
16:42 ashimema I do like the idea of a nice centralised place to do permissions.. it's axactly what I've been working on in one of my projects
16:42 ashimema only I've not yet extracted it into the IdP layer
16:42 ashimema perhaps Qvarn is where I should be going with that
16:42 ashimema (with Gluu)
16:43 ashimema I think you could say.. all data is sensitive once context is gained
16:43 ashimema so keeping all the data in the same place, then having an overall abstraction for the permissions for each piece of it makes sense to me.. I think
16:43 liw I would keep all data in qvarn, but a) I'm clearly biased and b) I don't like sql :)
16:44 ashimema one of the biggest anoyances koha side liw is our reports system.. it's fantastically flexible as it's just 'plain sql' based..
16:44 ashimema which is great for customers.. but a nightmare if you want to change schema at all.. because all the public 'copy/paste' sql reports break
16:45 ashimema haha
16:45 * ashimema has to go feed hungry kids
16:45 ashimema thanks for the chat.. been really enlightening
16:45 liw no worries
16:47 rsantellan liw: how you deal with queries on qvarn?
16:48 liw rsantellan, the qvarn api has searches,[…]verview.yarn#L695 describes them
16:56 rsantellan liw: after reading the docs is hard for me to think why migrate all data, I think that only the borrowers is worth saving there. But thats just my humble opinion, I'm no expert
16:58 liw rsantellan, I have to leave that decision to Koha developers, since I know so little of Koha
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