IRC log for #koha, 2016-04-08

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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06:18 marcelr hi #koha
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06:56 reiveune hello
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06:58 alex_a bonjour
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07:19 * magnuse waves
07:35 magnuse[…]978e80d20bf26.gif
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07:46 gaetan_B hello
07:46 wahanui salut, gaetan_B
07:52 Joubu hi #koha
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07:55 LibraryClaire morning!
07:55 marcelr hi LibraryClaire
07:55 marcelr hi Joubu
07:56 LibraryClaire hey marcelr :)
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08:05 drojf morning
08:06 LibraryClaire hi drojf :)
08:09 drojf hi LibraryClaire :)
08:10 LibraryClaire happy Friday!
08:13 drojf :)
08:13 drojf i'm my own boss, so i don't have a weekend ;)
08:14 magnuse friday?
08:14 wahanui friday is pizzaday
08:14 magnuse yay!
08:18 drojf hei magnuse
08:18 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
08:18 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 9.0°C (9:50 AM CEST on April 08, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 58%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
08:19 LibraryClaire mmmm pizza :D
08:21 LibraryClaire @wunder LCY
08:21 huginn LibraryClaire: The current temperature in London City, United Kingdom is 8.0°C (8:50 AM BST on April 08, 2016). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 7.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
08:23 kivilahtio We have syspref ' OpacRenewalBranch '. This works for OPAC. Is there a way to define the same rules for the staff client?
08:23 kivilahtio If not is somebody working on it?
08:25 magnuse @wunder boo
08:25 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 4.0°C (10:20 AM CEST on April 08, 2016). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 29.24 in 990 hPa (Rising).
08:28 magnuse "This value is used in the statistics table to help with reporting. The statistics table in Koha keeps track of all checkouts and renewals, this preference defines which branch is entered in to the table when a patron renews an item for themselves via the OPAC."
08:29 kivilahtio magnuse: yes
08:29 magnuse kivilahtio: you want to record a different branch than the one where the renewal is actually done?
08:29 kivilahtio magnuse: we need the same feature in the staff lcient
08:29 kivilahtio magnuse: in staff client
08:29 kivilahtio I am about to code it, just asking if there is a bug on it in Bugzilla, as I couldn't find one
08:30 kivilahtio we just noticed thatthe renewals are stored "wrongly"
08:30 kivilahtio shortest path is to use the same syspref in the staff client as well
08:30 kivilahtio which is also the most maintainable
08:30 wahanui okay, kivilahtio.
08:31 magnuse having a syspref called OpacRenewalBranch decide things in the intranet sounds wrong, though
08:31 kivilahtio magnuse: absolutely
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08:32 kivilahtio magnuse: I could refactor 'OpacRenewalBranch', but then I would have to maintaint thta change against master for 3 years
08:32 kivilahtio if i dont refactor the syspref, there is less to maintain :)
08:32 kivilahtio the novelties of the community process :)
08:33 magnuse i think it should be two different sysprefs
08:33 kivilahtio do you think there are two ways of statisticizing a renewal?
08:33 cait joined #koha
08:33 cait marcelr: around? :)
08:33 kivilahtio we have too many sysprefs already
08:33 marcelr hi cait
08:34 magnuse people might want to use OpacRenewalBranch but still keep the current functionality in the intranet
08:34 kivilahtio magnuse: true
08:34 cait i agree about the test mode bug - the changes to cart etc. seem unnecessary
08:34 kivilahtio magnuse: can you figure out a single use case where this is not a bug?
08:34 cait did you see my comment about the option of using Koha/ to centrlaize the change?
08:34 kivilahtio magnuse: hmm
08:35 kivilahtio maybe it is because the branch doing the renewal actualyl does manual work and the
08:35 kivilahtio renewal statistics is a reward for them for servicing other patrons
08:35 magnuse well, recording the branch of the currently logged in librarian who is doing the renewal sounds very logical to me
08:35 marcelr cait: yes i saw your comment
08:35 kivilahtio yes
08:35 kivilahtio I wonder why we are doing it this way?
08:36 cait ok :)
08:36 kivilahtio it sounds kinda wrong
08:36 magnuse recording the branch of the librarian who does the actual work sounds perfectly right to me
08:36 kivilahtio thanks magnuse: I keep asking
08:36 * cait agrees with magnuse
08:36 LibraryClaire magnuse: agree
08:37 kivilahtio I jsust got 3 nagry librarians telling me that this is how we have always done it
08:37 cait other systems differentiate renewals... but that's a whole other can of worms
08:37 magnuse ...and that is why we need a new syspref, to keep the current behaviour as the default
08:37 cait phone, opac, other... automatic.. different counters
08:37 kivilahtio magnuse: or, try to convince the librarians to change their mind
08:38 kivilahtio cait: what do you mean?
08:38 kivilahtio we could store to the statistics-table how the renewal was done?
08:40 magnuse that might be an interesting thing to track, akshuly
08:40 kivilahtio yes
08:40 kivilahtio when you do a renewal you could have a radial dialog asking to choose the type how the renewal was done, phone/"visit to library"
08:41 kivilahtio but I guess there was a saying "another can of worms" :)
08:44 magnuse yup
08:45 kivilahtio thanks magnuse and cait, I will postpone this to a lower priority. They can hung me if they can :)
08:45 magnuse kivilahtio: how is koha doing in finland these days? is the company up and running? are you working for it?
08:46 kivilahtio magnuse: we are founding the KohaSuomi Oy this summer, prolly in a couple of months
08:46 kivilahtio magnuse: we have a LOT of people queueing to get to Koha
08:46 kivilahtio it is strange considering how bad it occasionalyl is
08:46 magnuse yay
08:46 kivilahtio but every day things get a bit better
08:46 kivilahtio but we have a long way to go
08:46 kivilahtio we aremaking a big version upgrade this summer, from 3.16 to 3.24 with over 300 own commits
08:47 kivilahtio but we have page object test and jasmine BDD to cover our ass
08:47 kivilahtio I hope we can make the refactoring
08:47 kivilahtio targeting to start migrating Koha to Mojolicous completely after the version upgrade on intergrating ElastiSearch
08:48 magnuse um, ok
08:48 kivilahtio *and integrating ElasticSearch
08:48 magnuse koha haarukka?
08:48 drojf so you have a fork in finland?
08:48 kivilahtio interesting :)
08:48 kivilahtio drojf: looks like it :)
08:48 kivilahtio there is no way we can wait for the community process to introduce new features
08:49 kivilahtio it would be simply impossible to use Koha in Finland that way
08:49 kivilahtio we have legal requirements for ex that need to be fulfilled, then library usage rules cannot be 100% implemented using Koha's configuration mechanisms
08:49 drojf hm. if you check the list of enhancements, there are a lot of people handing in things and waiting, because we do not have enough testers. sorry it's too slow for you, biut it is slow for everyone
08:49 kivilahtio a lot of integrations to 3rd. parties
08:50 kivilahtio drojf: i know
08:50 kivilahtio drojf: I am not putting blame on anyone
08:50 kivilahtio this is just a fact we have to deal with
08:50 kivilahtio and we could budget worktime to work with the community and I try to squeese some occasionally
08:50 kivilahtio like hiring trainees to test stuff :)
08:51 kivilahtio too bad we have a long list of stuff to do
08:51 kivilahtio I have been avoiding the word "haarukka"
08:51 kivilahtio but I  yeah, it looks like we have forked on many levels now
08:51 drojf we need to breed a new generation of testers. we can't wait until the kids of the koha devs are old enough to make them test ;)
08:52 magnuse is there a long term goal for the fork to be temporary?
08:52 magnuse and eventually get stuff into koha?
08:53 drojf if you got a lot of interest in finland, you could try to get lbrarians to take part in testing
08:53 kivilahtio magnuse: considering the pace at which features are adopted and the heated debate about the technical implementations not working for everybody,, I must bend toward pessimism in this case
08:53 kivilahtio drojf: I dont really trust this librarian testing thing
08:53 kivilahtio drojf: they really cannot say if the feature is goodfor production. They can make acceptance testing which is very different from code review
08:54 kivilahtio drojf: and the Koha codebase is very annoying to work with. after these years it is really getting under my skin
08:54 kivilahtio drojf: one of my biggest gripes is MARC::Record
08:54 kivilahtio I always need better support for accessing standard data elements from the record, like title, author, isbn, ean, languages
08:54 kivilahtio etc
08:54 kivilahtio all i get is title = 245, even tho it is much more
08:54 kivilahtio so painful
08:55 kivilahtio also writing tests is so hard
08:55 kivilahtio luckily we have our own infrastructure to make them so it is much much easier nowadays but it tooks us a lot of time to write TestObjectFactories and PageObjects
08:56 kivilahtio the positive thing I am happy about is that it works :)
08:56 kivilahtio and we can run our libraries in Finland
08:56 kivilahtio and there are a lot of libraries wanting to use Koha
08:56 kivilahtio I guess it is the ideology and huge cost savings
08:56 kivilahtio and huge decrease in productivity
08:57 * magnuse wishes the fins the best of luck and wanders off to find lunch
08:57 kivilahtio magnuse: you too!
08:58 * LibraryClaire wishes it was lunch time
08:58 drojf kivilahtio: you could probably enhance MARC::Record if you want. i think gmcharlt wrote it
08:58 kivilahtio I wish I lived in a perfect world
08:58 kivilahtio drojf: he did
08:58 kivilahtio drojf: and a bunch of others
08:58 kivilahtio drojf: there are also other marc implemetnations
08:59 kivilahtio they look pretty swell
08:59 drojf regarding librarians testing, i'd say that depends on the feature. i don't see how a librarian using a sandbox and following a test plan is different from a programmer for smaller things. actually i think for UI and workflow stuff it would be better to have more librarians test it. maybe not so relevant for the hardcore changes you work on
09:00 kivilahtio drojf: I agree
09:00 drojf are you coming to kohacon?
09:00 kivilahtio drojf: I think from Finland there is a rather big delegation coming
09:01 kivilahtio I would like to talk about the stuff we do
09:01 kivilahtio but I feel depressed about it already
09:01 drojf why is that?
09:01 kivilahtio I guess in Kohacon taking face to face it will be a lot different than in IRC
09:01 kivilahtio drojf: thinking about the impossiblity of getting big changes to Koha
09:01 kivilahtio drojf: big changes that must happen
09:02 kivilahtio like complete overhaul of the CGI architecture
09:02 kivilahtio complete overhaul of the testing framework
09:02 kivilahtio or actualyl having a testing framework
09:02 kivilahtio actually minifyinfg all web assets
09:02 kivilahtio and merging them
09:02 wahanui somebody said merging them was the wrong idea
09:03 kivilahtio but I guesss there will be less than 10 persons coming to KohaCon from Finland
09:03 kivilahtio not sure if we have registrated yet, so might be that we wont be coming if it is full
09:03 kivilahtio developing a javascript framework to support Koha internals
09:03 drojf they are at ~170. you should register now ;)
09:04 kivilahtio this is a big issue for me., since we are writing more complex javascript GUI's by the day and the lack of infrastucture there makes things difficult
09:04 kivilahtio what we have with the Mojolicious Swagger2 REST API is great
09:04 kivilahtio I just finished CORS support for it :)
09:04 kivilahtio it makes writing the front end much smoother
09:05 drojf i think the community is not really capable of keeping up with your speed
09:05 kivilahtio also having to think constantly how to get around limitations in Koha, instead of refactoring the codebase to keep it healthy
09:05 kivilahtio so we have a hope of upgrading to the new community version
09:06 kivilahtio drojf: but this is how i feel currently :)
09:06 kivilahtio drojf: currently I am working to improve our Koha to act as a national cataloguing center for all Koha users in Finland
09:06 kivilahtio so lots of system-to-system communication
09:06 drojf wow, you got a lot of plans :)
09:07 kivilahtio so we have one central repository of cataloguing, and that is automatically reflected to all Kohas in Finland
09:07 kivilahtio drojf: I have a nice screencast about it already
09:07 kivilahtio it is very awkward so I havent shared it outside of our core users
09:08 drojf come on, share it :)
09:08 kivilahtio it nighly pulls cataloguing records from a central repository to overlay local records, we get when we acquire items
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09:08 kivilahtio drojf: Also we have a GUI to make print labels
09:08 kivilahtio so you can drag and drop elements to make anykind of a print label you need
09:10 drojf did you check bug 10662? that may be interesting for you
09:10 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10662 new feature, P3, ---, dcook, In Discussion , Build OAI-PMH Harvesting Client
09:11 kivilahtio drojf: thanks! OAI-PMH is a part of the cataloguin center and other integrations we need to do
09:14 kivilahtio drojf: here is a ton of schematics and the feature development hub
09:14 kivilahtio
09:14 drojf i started setting it up yesterday but have not really started testing
09:16 drojf thanks!
09:16 drojf got to change the office. see you later
09:16 kivilahtio nice! I don't have to write our own OAI-PMH harvester :)
09:16 kivilahtio you too! take care!
09:22 Joubu kivilahtio: you are getting old, you are rambling
09:22 kivilahtio Joubu: I am also a father :)
09:22 wahanui okay, kivilahtio.
09:23 kivilahtio Joubu: I should have a break from work
09:24 kivilahtio Buddha said, all pain and uncomfort comes from expectation/want.
09:24 kivilahtio Knowledge increases pain
09:24 kivilahtio I dont know what to think :)
09:24 kivilahtio I know so I want
09:24 kivilahtio and I am impatient, more so than our librarians
09:25 kivilahtio Joubu: does that count as rambling?
09:26 Joubu to have knowledge and to be impatient, no
09:30 kivilahtio Joubu: but you don't agree with the rest of it?
09:32 Joubu sorry, do not have the time to troll^Wdiscuss about that
09:32 kivilahtio good :)
09:32 Joubu Koha community is slow blablabla
09:32 kivilahtio it is not your fault
09:32 Joubu does not take the right decision, etc.
09:32 kivilahtio I am also wrong :)
09:32 wahanui okay, kivilahtio.
09:34 kivilahtio occasionally
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11:36 saa i am trying to get coverpages in OPAC i installed koha coverflow plugin
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11:37 saa in configuration when i cut paste following it throws error - id: 86 selector: #coverflow options: style: coverflow
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11:37 saa Error: YAML Error: Invalid element in sequence Code: YAML_LOAD_ERR_BAD_SEQ_ELEMENT Line: 2 Document: 1 at /usr/local/share/perl/5.18.2/YAML/ line 377.
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11:46 oleonard Hi #koha
11:47 Oak Hello oleonard
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11:55 oleonard Ugh... the changes I made in Bug 15692 got undone somewhere along the line
11:55 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15692 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Move some patron entry form JavaScript into members.js
11:56 oleonard Immediately after, in fact :(
11:57 drojf huh?
11:57 drojf pushed a non-rebased patch?
11:57 drojf or how does that happen?
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12:19 Oak what is the best way to test koha patches (apply patch + unit test + signoff) currently? Link?
12:21 kidclamp Oak - I would suggest starting on the sandboxes, but i f you need to do unit tests you will need to setup a dev environment, either koha-gitify or kohadevbox (ansible branch) are the easiest ways I know to get started
12:21 kidclamp
12:22 kidclamp[…]vbox/tree/ansible
12:22 Oak Thanks. Let me check these.
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12:36 drojf oh look, i harvested a record
12:36 drojf dcook++
12:37 kidclamp huzzah!
12:37 magnuse yay!
12:37 magnuse dcook++
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12:48 kivilahtio ashimema: jajm: Joubu: can you comment on Bug 14974?
12:48 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14974 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Use the REST API for cities
12:50 Joubu I ask for months to see code, I don't want to talk, just want to see code :)
12:51 jajm kivilahtio, never saw angularjs in action, can't say anything about it
12:51 ashimema My angular man is out today.. but i can get him to look on monday if he can squeeze it in
12:51 ashimema as for me.. i'm mid migrations at the moment so can't take the time out for such a context switch
12:56 kivilahtio ashimema: ok take care!
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13:00 kivilahtio Joubu: I understand. You didnät pm me
13:00 kivilahtio :)
13:00 kivilahtio just explained to jajm that I get so much mail all the notifications dont work for me
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13:06 kivilahtio Joubu: jajm: ashimema: are you against AngularJS?
13:06 kivilahtio could you accept it as the javascript framework for Koha
13:07 kivilahtio I mean you must have a hunch?
13:07 cait benjamin++
13:07 kivilahtio without knowing much about it. Imho there are so many frameworks and styles the making an informed deision is next to impossible. Much like with Mojolicious
13:07 kivilahtio khall seems to strongly believe in AngularJS
13:08 kivilahtio I am sure it is not a bad choice
13:08 kivilahtio maybe not the best either :)
13:09 oleonard kivilahtio: When you say "the javascript framework for Koha" you mean to replace jQuery?
13:10 kivilahtio oleonard: I guess I mean AngularJS vs Flux vs RiotJS
13:10 jajm kivilahtio, i feel that it will be hard to move from angularjs to something else when angular will become "not cool", like so many js frameworks tends to become, and i don't know the benefits of it
13:10 kivilahtio thanks
13:10 oleonard kivilahtio: Meaning it would be used for a specific type of functionality?
13:11 kivilahtio oleonard: for writing the whole front end SPA
13:11 kivilahtio or bunch of SPAs
13:11 kivilahtio depending on how we build the front end
13:11 kivilahtio I believe we should refactor Koha towards a SPA-type application
13:11 kivilahtio ha a own app for Acquisition
13:12 kivilahtio have  a separate app for Cataloguing, like Rancor
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13:13 kivilahtio hence we need some framework to support that development and act as a common guideline/pattern for everybody developing the front end
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13:19 kivilahtio oleonard: how does that sound like?
13:20 oleonard kivilahtio: It sounds like a lot of work! :)
13:20 kivilahtio oleonard: yes, and a huge benefit
13:20 kivilahtio oleonard: of course it doesnt mean that we scrap the existing GUI's
13:21 oleonard kivilahtio: I will take a lot of effort to convince everyone to start using a framework that few are familiar with.
13:21 kivilahtio oleonard: with the REST API in use we must start using a good javascript framework.  We are making very responsive improvements to Koha with the REST API
13:22 kivilahtio it is miraculous, even magica to our librarians who are used to Koha pageloading 2-5 seconds, things happen instantly
13:23 kivilahtio migrating to plack helps a lot but we can go much further with a SPA.
13:24 kivilahtio oleonard: but I agree that convincing everybody is a big challenge
13:27 kivilahtio have a nice weekend!
13:28 oleonard You too kivilahtio
13:30 drojf ok harvesting (downloading) works, but importing into koha does not. i only got a leader field that is broken
13:30 drojf anyway, cool start
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13:33 magnuse SPA is single page application
13:33 magnuse i presume?
13:34 magnuse spa?
13:34 wahanui somebody said spa was single page application
13:34 oleonard There you go magnuse. wahanui knew.
13:35 magnuse i'd call that a self fulfilling prophecy :-)
13:35 * magnuse wanders off to make pizza
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13:49 Spartan01 hello anyone online?
13:49 Spartan01 need help with a koha installation
13:53 oleonard Spartan01: Ask your question and if anyone knows they answer they can try to help
13:54 Spartan01 Am running Linux Mint
13:54 Spartan01 After installing koha-common, am failing to create an instance
13:54 Spartan01 the error is "failed to load external entity "/etc/koha/sites/–create-db/koha-conf.xml"
13:54 drojf that looks like you issued the wrong command
13:55 drojf what does your koha-create command look like?
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13:55 Spartan01 my command was sudo koha-create –create-db library
13:55 Spartan01 "sudo koha-create –create-db library"
13:55 drojf hm yes
13:55 drojf its "koha-create --create-db library"
13:56 drojf you set up a library named -create-db now, not one named library, and you did not create a db
13:56 drojf try "koha-remove -create-db" and then start again
13:57 drojf (i am confused that worked at all, i thought you get an error if you do that)
13:58 Spartan01 thanks mate
14:01 drojf it looks like you actually got an en-dash, not a minus in front of your "create". maybe you need "koha-remove –create-db"
14:07 drojf i think i should make pizza too
14:07 oleonard I think you should make me pizza too.
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14:10 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
14:10 drojf oleonard: it's probably cold when it arrives at your place
14:10 drojf hi mtompset
14:10 mtompset Greetings, drojf.
14:12 * mtompset let's out a big breath.
14:13 mtompset Finally! Bug 11592 is ready for sign off.
14:13 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11592 major, P3, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , opac detail scripts do not respect MARC tag visibility
14:13 mtompset Next pain... back to bug 1058
14:13 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1058 major, P2, ---, chris, CLOSED FIXED, Intranet detail screen does not show lost or cancelled statuses
14:13 mtompset bug 10589
14:13 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10589 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Failed QA , Override OpacHiddenItems based on Patron Category
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14:40 barton @seen tcohen
14:40 huginn barton: tcohen was last seen in #koha 22 hours, 29 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <tcohen> I signed, and Joubu got involved
14:57 Joubu bye!
15:08 reiveune bye
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15:09 kidclamp have agood weekend Joubu
15:11 drojf harvested and imported a record via OAI-PMH. woohoo
15:34 oleonard Is turning DEBUG on in Koha something people typically do during development, or only for testing something specific? Or never?
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15:43 oleonard Or is there another good way to identify that the user is in testing vs. production?
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15:50 tcohen hi
15:50 wahanui bonjour, tcohen
16:16 oleonard cait around?
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18:47 oleonard You guys are making me feel like a chump for working this late on a Friday afternoon.
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20:02 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the #koha IRC chat | Code of conduct -[…]/code-of-conduct/ | Please use for pastes | Installation guide for Koha is
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