IRC log for #koha, 2013-07-12

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:05 maximep left #koha
00:05 dcook joined #koha
00:05 mtompset Greetings, dcook.
00:08 tcohen it depends on your setup i guess?
00:08 tcohen independent branches??
00:09 dcook joined #koha
00:10 dcook Quick question for XSLT and XML users...
00:10 dcook What does ":11: parser error : PCDATA invalid Char value 31" mean?
00:10 dcook I figure there must be an invalid character in the XML but I can't see it...
00:11 pastebot "dcook" at pasted "XSLT error" (13 lines) at
00:11 wizzyrea mtompset: regarding your question
00:11 wizzyrea to the libraries each catalogue the item?
00:12 dcook joined #koha
00:12 wizzyrea is there a biblio for each library, is what I mean
00:12 * dcook thinks he missed something
00:13 dcook XChat is not my friend today...
00:16 dcook Aha...the logs perhaps are saying more...
00:17 jcamins dcook: what's the XML that is causing problems?
00:17 dcook New MARCXML being converted from a proprietary XML format
00:18 jcamins I meant, please paste same so that I can tell you where the problem is.
00:18 dcook I think they're invisible characters :/
00:18 dcook Hmm
00:19 jcamins Oh, good call.
00:19 jcamins That's not XML, that's binary MARC.
00:19 * jcamins hadn't read the ascii table yet when he asked for a copy of the XML.
00:20 jcamins BTW, wahanui's answer to "where the problem is" is great.
00:20 dcook where the problem?
00:20 wahanui i think the problem is that on order is not treated differently than the other not for loan values
00:20 jcamins where the problem is
00:20 wahanui i guess the problem is it's human beings doing it. Rebuild your indexes.
00:20 jcamins Hm.
00:20 jcamins Please tell me where the problem is
00:20 wahanui the problem is it's human beings doing it. Rebuild your indexes.
00:20 dcook Yes, wahanui. Humans are problematic...
00:20 jcamins Hm.
00:20 dcook Yeah, it looks like an ascii character
00:20 jcamins i can tell you where the problem is
00:20 dcook In this case, /x1e to be specific
00:20 dcook And... /x1f I think
00:21 dcook Record separator and unit separator?
00:21 jcamins Yup. Field and subfield separators, I think.
00:23 jcamins I just checked the MARC documentation. Field and subfield separators, definitely.
00:23 dcook I think the group separator is in there as well
00:24 dcook So...these are invisible?
00:24 * dcook takes a look for the hex..
00:24 jcamins Yes.
00:24 jcamins Unless you're an XSLT processor, apparently.
00:25 mtompset Sorry, I was away from the keyboard, wizzyrea. I believe it may be branch related, yes.
00:25 dcook I can respect XSLT processor's strictness ;)
00:25 dcook I'm not noticing the 1E or 1F hex in the binary though
00:26 mtompset Yes, I believe IndependentBranches is set to prevent branches from modifying other branches.
00:27 dcook Durrr
00:27 dcook jcamins: I get what you're saying now
00:27 mtompset So, there will be a biblio for each branch, because of IndependentBranches?
00:28 dcook's binary MARC...not XML
00:28 jcamins Yep. I hate it when they stick binary MARC in XML tags.
00:28 jcamins Unfortunately, I'm not being ironic.
00:28 dcook I'll paste in the error log..
00:28 mtompset binary MARC in XML tags?!
00:29 pastebot "dcook" at pasted "binary marc in marcxml?" (8 lines) at
00:29 dcook I don't see any marcxml there though
00:30 dcook Brain = confused
00:30 jcamins Right, if you look in biblioitems.marcxml, you will find... binary MARC.
00:31 jcamins Probably wrapped in XML tags.
00:32 jcamins "Setup will complete in approximately: 35 minutes"
00:32 dcook Looks ok to me :/
00:47 dcook Huh...maybe this somehow isn't related to the xslt..
00:47 dcook A regular search works fine
00:47 dcook But the tag search...
00:47 dcook That's what is exploding everything
00:48 dcook But it must be the xml..
00:50 jcamins Ohhhh.
00:51 jcamins There was a bug with tagging.
00:51 jcamins I don't remember exactly what it was, but there was one.
00:52 dcook Hmm, that does help :)
00:52 dcook Although...
00:52 jcamins The bug I'm remembering was fixed in 3.10, I think.
00:53 dcook I think this is still a data issue
00:55 dcook When I try the tag search on my test system with good marcxml, it works
00:55 jcamins Oh, I'm sure it is, but there was a bug that allowed bad data to break searches.
01:02 dcook Mmm, I see I see
01:05 drojf joined #koha
01:05 drojf yay i'm awake at 3am
01:05 dcook Jesus, drojf!
01:06 dcook For once, I can actually say good morning when it's morning here!
01:06 drojf apart from the "get up at 8" thingy that's fine
01:06 drojf lol
01:06 drojf hi dcook
01:06 mtompset Actually, if drojf hasn't gone to bed yet, it's still yesterday for him. That's how we time travel. Don't sleep for 24 hours to stay in the past. ;)
01:07 drojf true. next day is after waking up
01:07 mtompset My thoughts exactly, drojf. :)
01:08 drojf does that mean if i don't go to bed i don't have to work?
01:08 mtompset Sadly, it's a localized bubble around you.
01:09 drojf @later tell edveal bug 10195 -- hope to fix that next week
01:09 huginn` drojf: The operation succeeded.
01:10 drojf for you too maybe, mtompset. the thing with accessing suppressed biblios directly
01:10 drojf i don't think our legal department would like that ;)
01:11 mtompset I'm looking at that problem now, which is why I was asking about multiple biblios for what appears to be the same book in multiple branches.
01:11 mtompset because I actually started looking at our data.
01:12 mtompset We're hiding based on shelving location.
01:12 drojf i had a patch but then i had some weird things happening with my git so i'd like to look at it again. it has been working at some point
01:13 janPasi joined #koha
01:14 drojf not really complicated. there already is a redirection to a 404 page if the biblio does not exist. i added a redirection to a "you are nor allowed blabla" page if 942$n == 1. for some cases it may also make sense to redirect to the 404 to pretend there is nothing to find
01:17 drojf is that the hideitemsomething mtompset? because i still wonder how that works out. i thought there might be "secret" items of "secret" biblios. if you only hide the items you can still find the biblios and would raise suspicion, or not?
01:18 mtompset We don't use 942$n to hide.
01:18 mtompset We're hiding using OpacHiddenItems.
01:19 drojf exactly. how does that work (assuming it really hides only items and not biblios)
01:19 drojf ?
01:19 mtompset Actually, the function in C4::Items that returns GetHiddenItems (or something like that).
01:20 mtompset So, it was pretty easy to attempt a patch to override based on patron category.
01:20 dcook with the OPAC tag search...we get the marcxml directly from the DB for those tags, strip nonxmlcharacters, and load it into a MARC::Record object...turn that into binary MARC...and send it to searchResults...
01:20 dcook searchResults decodes that back into a MARC::Record object...
01:20 mtompset Whatever items are returned in that array reference don't get listed.
01:21 mtompset Now whether that is a don't get listed, but still passed is another question I haven't looked into.
01:24 drojf mtompset: but my point is: if that is item-based… how does it work if you have to hide something like a "forbidden" book? would it not be possible to find the biblio of the book in the opac and then see no items listed for it? and would that not be obvious to an adversary that you must have some item of that book somewhere because otherwise it would not be in the catalogue at all?
01:24 mtompset That's the thing I'm planning on cleaning up.
01:25 drojf but my guess is that you are wrong at the hiddenitems-thing then
01:25 mtompset wrong? What do you mean?
01:25 drojf (or it does other things than its name implies)
01:26 mtompset OpacHiddenItems is a YAML rule set for deciding whether to hide an item or not.
01:26 mtompset I didn't write it. It is already in Koha.
01:26 drojf i think that you do not want to act on the item level but in the biblio level if we are talking about media that is in general not acceptable (for whatever reason in whatever context)
01:28 mtompset I don't think hiding a biblio display (opac-details) when all the items are hidden is necessarily the wrong thing to do.
01:28 mtompset I do see how you might be right about hiding by biblio.
01:29 mtompset Though, the problem with hiding by biblio requires a data entry person who remembers to set the hidden MARC field.
01:29 drojf aha! so your plan is to generally hide biblios that do not have visible items?
01:29 mtompset yes.
01:30 wizzyrea mtompset: possibly you could make a hidden framework that marked the value by default
01:30 drojf alright. then it makes sense to me now. but i do not think that will be widely accepable as i suppose it will screw up the various acquisitions options (just guessing)
01:31 mtompset This is opac display side.
01:31 mtompset This is not client side.
01:31 mtj dcook, i bumped into a situ some weeks ago, where a glitchy bib was causing the opac search-results to fail, with xslt display
01:32 drojf you have different options of showing or not showing items that are being bought but are not available yet in the opac
01:32 dcook mtj: I seem to remember did you fix it?
01:32 mtj …i ended up just fixing the glitchy bib, and not following up the problem with a solution :/
01:32 dcook While my records are suboptimal, the parser error doesn't make much sense
01:32 dcook Dinger :/
01:33 dcook How did you fix it in the end?
01:33 mtompset Yes, there are three ways that I know of, drojf. OpacHiddenItems is the simplest.
01:33 mtompset There is a 952 field as well, not just the 942 one.
01:34 drojf for hiding things?
01:34 mtompset Yes.
01:34 drojf what is that in 952?
01:34 mtompset I don't recall.
01:34 mtompset y?
01:34 mtompset 952\$y?
01:34 drojf koha item type?
01:35 mtompset See... I don't recall. :P
01:35 mtj dcook, i had a hunch that wrapping the XSLTParse4Display() call in an eval() might fix the problem
01:37 mtj i have a backup of the glicthy db/bib, so its something i hope to sort a fix for… sometime
01:37 dcook mtj: Did your glitchy bib make it through then or was it tossed aside as it didn't make it through the eval?
01:38 mtj neither - i just removed the glichy chars from the bib, problem solved :/
01:38 dcook Ah, that's what I meant
01:38 dcook What did those chars turn out to be? :p
01:38 dcook The parser error is referring to binary marc characters, but I don't see any in my marcxml
01:39 dcook I wonder...
01:39 dcook No..
01:39 mtj hmm, twas just random 'whitespace' to me
01:39 dcook I've read a bit about bad whitespace..
01:40 dcook Whereabouts was it?
01:40 mtj the end of a 245b, fwiw - a korean bib
01:41 dcook Wait a minute...
01:42 mtj but really… despite me sorting a quickfix, the bug itself is quite a big deal :/
01:42 dcook But what is the bug?
01:42 wahanui somebody said the bug was it stores biblionumber not itemnumber
01:42 dcook In my case, I'm thinking it might have to do with whitespace in the leader...
01:43 dcook Possibly making a bad binary marc blob
01:43 dcook Which mucks things up along the way
01:43 dcook As someone pointed out, for the most part, Koha seems happy
01:43 dcook But Koha doesn't often use the marc blob..
01:44 dcook I'm probably grasping at straws :p
01:46 mtj the bug is… any bib returned in a search-result with a 'problematic' char, causes a fatal error
01:47 drojf and what is a problematic char?
01:47 dcook Indeed
01:47 dcook I think it takes & into account
01:48 dcook Or maybe converting & back into & for display..I can't remember
01:48 drojf also, are you using icu?
01:48 druthb o/
01:48 drojf hi druthb
01:49 mtompset Greetings, druthb.
01:49 druthb Howdy
01:49 wahanui kai ora, druthb
01:49 dcook hey, druthb
01:49 druthb kia ora, wahanui.
01:49 wahanui druthb: what?
01:49 mtj drojf, hmm - yes i think icu is on
01:49 druthb wahanui:  botsnack cookie
01:49 wahanui :)
01:49 mtompset drojf: I may be confused. OpacSuppression is for Biblio level hiding, and OpacHiddenItems is for Item level hiding. I can't seem to find my third way in the emails I sent back and forth with my colleagues.
01:51 drojf mtompset: i thought your third way is hiding the items and when there are no items, hide the biblio too, or was there something else?
01:51 mtj drojf, i cant quote any 'problematic' chars ATM, but i do have a bib somewhere that has them…
01:52 mtompset No, that's a patch I'm working on for OPAC.
01:52 mtompset I shouldn't be able to opac-detail the biblionumber, if all the items are hidden.
01:52 mtj ill have to look about a bit, for that bib
01:52 dcook mtj: I know I've encountered lots of problematic characters before as well, although I can't recall them either
01:53 dcook This xml looks good though...with the one exception being spaces in the leader..
01:53 * dcook tries to remember the binary marc spec..
01:53 dcook Does it calculate the length of the leader dynamically or is that fixed..
01:53 mtompset dcook: why remember it, MARCEdit is your friend. :P
01:53 dcook I don't need to know what MARCEdit does though
01:53 mtj my thinking is, a patch to just skip that glitchy bib for display, whould be better than a fatal
01:53 dcook I need to know what MARC::File and those other modules do
01:54 dcook mtj: Mmm, true as
01:54 dcook Nothing makes a system look worse than fatal errors...
01:54 mtompset Is a 404 a fatal error? ;)
01:54 dcook Maybe skip the bib, write to a log, then display
01:54 dcook A 404 is either a broken link or bad typing on the user's part
01:55 drojf mtj: gaetan_B had a nice one where in only one case the title word order got reversed for a kurdish biblio. some part of zebra seems to be mildly crazy
01:55 dcook XSL errors...doesn't look good
01:57 mtj anyhoo… ill try to find out more details and log a bug
01:59 drojf has anyone been running koha as a tor hidden service?
01:59 drojf or more like "tried to"
02:00 jcamins drojf: I can't really see the use.
02:00 mtompset tor hidden service?
02:00 jcamins There are very few library catalogs which are useful in themselves.
02:01 dcook I think I might've found my problem...
02:01 drojf jcamins: if you use koha strictly as a reference to what you got in your offline library, no. if you use it with links, maybe even embedded documents, why not?
02:01 jcamins drojf: well, that's my point... how many catalogs of the latter type are you aware of?
02:03 drojf jcamins: nothing relevant comes to mind… but that may change in the ugly times we live in
02:03 * jcamins knows of very few that are managed by people who would care about privacy.
02:03 jcamins MARC-based catalogs exceptionally poorly suited for research repositories.
02:03 jcamins Something like Kete? Sure.
02:03 jcamins Omeka? Sure.
02:04 jcamins Biblionarrator? Yeah, why not?
02:04 jcamins Koha? Ehhh... I wouldn't.
02:04 wizzyrea i might be inclined to tie them together.
02:04 wizzyrea an omeka and a koha
02:05 wizzyrea or have a federated search of the two
02:05 wizzyrea kete would be better for that as it's already zebra
02:05 jcamins wizzyrea: sure, but if you don't have access to the library, the catalog isn't useful, and if you have access to the library, you're not *actually* anonymous.
02:06 wizzyrea ah yea true.
02:06 jcamins As a general rule, I'd definitely have a Koha catalog and a repository combined.
02:06 jcamins I just wouldn't be able to think of a reason to try and deal with tor.
02:07 mtompset What do you mean, jcamins?
02:07 drojf +1 for koha plus a repository. i still have not decided what to have a real look at
02:07 mtompset repository?
02:07 wahanui repository is already set up... makes more sense to do the koha-deps koha-perldeps thing.
02:07 wizzyrea i rather liked omeka when I was last looking at such thing
02:07 wizzyrea things*
02:08 wizzyrea greenstone wasn't bad either.
02:08 wizzyrea i like kete but it was a pita to set up
02:08 wizzyrea ruby--
02:08 mtompset What is a repository compared to the koha catalog?
02:08 drojf jcamins: because i can, because i want to promote it in some way. yes, it would be nice if it made real sense in some way. i would actually have a use case for one "library" i know of
02:08 wizzyrea it holds digital objects
02:08 wizzyrea instead of just the metadata thereof
02:09 mtompset oh, so like all the public PDF files that we've 856$u'd?
02:09 wizzyrea it holds both the metadata and the actual content/object
02:09 wizzyrea yep
02:09 mtompset (if that is the right field)
02:10 mtompset But doesn't Koha already have all the metadata?
02:10 mtompset Isn't a dumb FTP server good enough?
02:10 wizzyrea is it?
02:11 wizzyrea that's really up to you, right?
02:11 wizzyrea MARC is pretty pants to describe digital content items.
02:11 wizzyrea dublin core is nicer
02:12 mtompset wizzyrea: So what sort of solution for repository have you seen?
02:12 drojf depends on the items i guess. if you want to find scans of books i don't see a problem
02:12 mtompset Because actually, this is a problem that is on my TODO list.
02:12 wizzyrea greenstone, omeka, lots of different proprietary ones whose names slip my mind
02:12 mtompset we have all these scan's of documents that we would like accessible.
02:13 wizzyrea archivalware (though i probably wouldn't recommend that one they are unfriendly to open source.)
02:13 mtompset But I was like: Do we really want a fileserver on the Koha server?
02:13 dcook Still reading scrollback
02:13 dcook drojf: That's the premise of my Kohacon talk, if I find the time to write it...tying Koha and DSpace together
02:13 drojf i forgot which one i looked at. whatever that was, i did not like it
02:14 drojf dcook: as in, you have not tried it yet?
02:14 jcamins archivesspace is the popular one these days.
02:14 dcook That's the one you were mentioning the other day, yes?
02:14 wizzyrea and there are people like digitalnz who host *only* the metadata, and rely on outside people to provide the actual content
02:14 wizzyrea which is more like what koha does.
02:15 wizzyrea it might be cool to have a dublin-core type framework.
02:15 mtompset Is there a nice way to export MARC records for metadata along with the files into a repository?
02:15 drojf i vaguely remember looking at greenstone, so maybe that was what i did not like.
02:15 jcamins drojf: probably. I hated Greenstone.
02:15 wizzyrea i liked it less than omeka
02:15 dcook drojf: Prosentient provides both Koha and Dspace linked up
02:15 wizzyrea (but it's been a couple of years
02:15 drojf i'm not sure if i knew the name omeka for tonight
02:15 jcamins Though Omeka and Greenstone are for very different use spaces.
02:16 drojf *before
02:16 jcamins *cases
02:16 dcook drojf: I also wrote a program that does media harvesting which takes ingested content and puts it into Dspace and Koha
02:16 dcook But...the linking of DSpace and Koha is something my boss did. I don't know the particulars of how he did it (although I have ideas about how we could do it better)
02:16 drojf dcook: ok but then it is not completely experimental ;)
02:17 dcook Nah, the experiments would just be on improving linking, or personally for me to understand how we do it/should do it
02:17 dcook It's an interesting idea...since DSpace stores the digital object (or actually stores it on a file system and just stores pointers)
02:17 dcook And metadata as dublin core
02:17 drojf that reminds me of something i'v ebeen meaning to ask… is vufind used outside of germany? (not a repository but a discovery thingy)
02:18 dcook As wizzyrea was saying: I think DC is way better than MARC for describing digital objects
02:18 jcamins drojf: yeah, it was developed by Villanova and is used by Yale and a lot of other places.
02:18 dcook drojf: I've certainly heard the name, so I assume so
02:18 dcook Add digital preservation software in there and it gets even more interesting
02:18 drojf ok then it is just a weird coincidence that i only hear about it from germany
02:18 dcook
02:19 drojf and the koha driver for it sucks i thingk
02:19 dcook drojf: Yep
02:19 drojf think
02:19 jcamins drojf: there's some big initiative to use it nationally in Germany, I think.
02:19 drojf or, is pretty outdated and has little functionality
02:20 wizzyrea dspace is BSD License - not terrible
02:21 jcamins I was more impressed with Fedora than DSpace.
02:21 wizzyrea i haven't looked seriously at either dspace or fedora
02:22 dcook jcamins: I've heard that Fedora is more impressive
02:22 dcook But possibly more difficult to set up?
02:22 dcook wizzyrea: Me either. I just do templates and some java-level changes to DSpace for accessibility purposes
02:22 dcook The JSPUI is...a bit gross
02:22 wizzyrea "gross"
02:22 dcook Outdated and badly designed HTML
02:22 dcook No IDs...
02:23 jcamins Yeah, definitely way harder to set up. It doesn't have a built-in interface.
02:23 dcook Lots of deprecated tags..
02:23 jcamins Islandora provides an integrated interface, I think.
02:23 dcook If I had more time, I would set up a DSpace git and send developments back, but their community is oddly set up too
02:23 mtompset JSP?
02:23 dcook Mmm, I forgot about Islandora
02:23 dcook mtompset: Yep
02:23 mtompset What is JSP?
02:23 dcook Java Server Pages, I think
02:24 dcook Or something like that
02:24 dcook Templates for Java
02:24 * mtompset cringes.
02:24 drojf you lost me at "java" :P
02:24 dcook jcamins: Is Islandora originally from Prince Edward Island, or do they just do a lot of work on it there?
02:24 jcamins dcook: I'm not sure.
02:24 mtompset drojf++ # and you had me at hello. :)
02:24 jcamins There's a company behind it.
02:25 wizzyrea university of prince edward island.
02:25 wizzyrea wonder how big that is.
02:25 wizzyrea :)
02:25 wizzyrea PEI is pretty small.
02:25 wizzyrea you can drive around it in a day.
02:25 mtompset or less. :P
02:26 wizzyrea ohh islandora lives on drupal
02:29 drojf so, should i buy an nfc reader just for fun? i'm beginning to feel intrigued by the "koha self-checkout machine" thing even though i really have no time to work on it
02:29 dcook drojf: koha self-checkout machine?
02:29 dcook wizzyrea: Lives on drupal?
02:30 dcook I've known a few people who've worked at the U of PEI, hence the question ;)
02:33 drojf dcook: i've been thinking about building one. or rather find out if it will work
02:34 dcook drojf: I'm not sure that I follow...
02:34 dcook You mean like a kiosk?
02:37 wizzyrea drupal, the CMS eh?
02:37 drojf not sure what you mean by a kiosk :D (a kiosk is a place where you can buy alcohol, tobacco and other stuff late at night around here)
02:38 dcook wizzyrea: You mean the Islandora site lives on Drupal?
02:38 jcamins dcook: no, Islandora is actually built on Drupal.
02:38 dcook O_o
02:38 dcook Interesting...
02:38 wahanui i think interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:38 drojf apparently 'selfcheck' is a registered trademark of 3M. ot sure if i wanted to learn that.
02:38 jcamins It's like a Drupal plugin for displaying Fedora repositories.
02:38 dcook jcamins: I don't know what I would do without you sometimes
02:39 dcook drojf: I like the definition of kiosk there ;)
02:39 jcamins drojf: I've heard that usage of kiosk, but I never realized that it was common.
02:39 dcook I meant a desk/stand/counter
02:39 dcook Possible with a built-in barcode scanner
02:39 dcook Possibly*
02:41 drojf jcamins: it is in northern germany i think. at least it is in hannover (where i come from). i berlin it is usually referred to as 'spätkauf' (literally 'latebuy') or the short form 'späti' (like a diminutive)
02:42 drojf dcook: kind of. a selfcheck machine with RFID probably, instead of a barcode scanner
02:44 drojf that is going to be a fun day
02:47 dcook Sounds worthwhile
02:47 dcook I've been wanting to get some practical RFID experience
02:47 dcook All my knowledge at the moment is only theoretical...
02:47 drojf when the monitor switches from night light to daylight you know you have been up way too long
02:47 dcook Yes!
02:47 dcook Why are you awake?
02:48 drojf i don't know. but i am really awake awake :/
02:48 dcook Yata!
02:48 dcook mtj: 'twas a whitespace issue
02:49 drojf and yes, i got to the idea that way. i have nothing to do with rfid so far. but i'd like to play with it and get an idea of how it works and what funny things i could do with it
02:49 dcook Extra spaces after the 23rd Leader position. As I mentioned...those spaces shouldn't have been there...but I figured that only the first 23 positions would've been taken into account by the Perl modules...silly me
02:49 drojf if i learn some sip by accident that is ok too, but i'll try to avoid it ;)
02:50 dcook drojf: I'm sure there are many applications :)
02:50 dcook Mmm, sip is another one I need to look at
02:50 dcook I think that's how some folks are doing RFID with Koha?
02:51 drojf i suppose that is how all folks are doing selfcheck machine things
02:51 drojf not sure in what ways you could use koha with rfid
02:56 dcook Not too sure myself. Alas, if only there were more of me or more time...
02:56 dcook Then I would know all the things
02:58 drojf heh
02:59 dcook Mmm, hunger really is the best spice
02:59 jcamins What's for lunch?
03:00 dcook Just regular ol' peanut butter sandwiches
03:00 dcook On some tasty multigrain bread though
03:00 dcook Om nom nom
03:00 jcamins With jelly, or *just* peanut butter?
03:00 dcook *Just*
03:00 dcook I like jam but not with my PB
03:01 dcook At least, that was the case 20 years ago
03:01 dcook The more things change, the more they stay the same?
03:01 * jcamins doesn't like peanut butter or jam on bread.
03:01 * dcook is sure he can think of more clichés
03:01 dcook You're also a far better cook than I am ;)
03:02 dcook What's your fallback meal?
03:03 dcook All this talk of peanut butter, jam, and bread really has me craving pesto though...
03:03 jcamins When it's cool, flatbread or pizza.
03:03 dcook Alas, our basil plants are dying after taking a pounding from the rain. The potatos are growing like champs though.
03:04 dcook Mmm, pizza
03:04 dcook Flatbread?
03:04 jcamins Yeah.
03:04 jcamins That's what you call pizza when it doesn't look like regular pizza.
03:05 dcook Depends on your definitions of flatbread and pizza, I suppose
03:06 dcook Although now I'm craving my partner's vegan pizza
03:06 dcook Soy cheese is also surprisingly good on pizza
03:06 dcook Must be all the salt..
03:06 jcamins Well, is your pizza made with cashews, rosemary, and only a soupçon of cheese, but no sauce?
03:11 dcook No, but that sounds delicious
03:11 dcook My favourite pizza in town is potato and rosemary with soy cheese...mmm
03:12 dcook Actually, I had it the other day with actual cheese rather than soy cheese, but my body didn't seem to like that too much
03:13 dcook @wunder forest hills, new york
03:13 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Glendale, Glendale, New York is 25.5°C (11:02 PM EDT on July 11, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 29.91 in 1013 hPa (Falling).
03:14 dcook 25 at 11pm?
03:14 dcook I see what you mean about "when it's cool"
03:24 mtompset oregano goes well with a meat lovers pizza. ;)
03:25 mtompset And the diet I'm on... someone actually made a cauliflower-based pizza.
03:25 mtompset I so wish to try doing that sometime.
03:25 mtompset @wunder l7e5y5
03:25 huginn` mtompset: The current temperature in Toronto Pearson, Ontario is 18.0°C (11:00 PM EDT on July 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.05 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
03:26 dcook Mmm cauliflower
03:26 dcook mtompset: You're in/around Toronto these days?
03:26 mtompset Yes, I'm in Canada.
03:26 mtompset Been here since November last year.
03:29 dcook I knew that part, but I didn't realize that you were in/around Toronto :p
03:29 dcook I seem to remember Paul A living...somewhere in Ontario...that started with a P?
03:29 dcook Being a westerner, I don't know much of your strange province ;)
03:29 dcook Been to Sudbury and been to Toronto. That's about it for my Ontarian experience
03:32 mtompset You mean the paul who doesn't listen to advice? ;)
03:35 mtompset dcook: That's okay. Everyone has their own geographic challenges.
03:37 mtompset[…]geography-mistake (like Alaska is an island ;) )
03:37 dcook I meant the Paul that lives in Ontario
03:38 dcook Wow..
03:38 dcook Ooohhh.
03:38 dcook Now that I think about it...lots of US maps do show Alaska as an island, I think
03:39 dcook Off on the pacific side
03:39 dcook Just so that all the states are in the same box on the map
03:39 mtompset I know, but still. You would think people would remember Canada.
03:39 dcook I went to school with people who didn't know milk came from cows
03:39 dcook Even though there were cows on the label
03:39 ibeardslee ?!?!?
03:39 mtompset Well, it could come from goats, etc. :P
03:40 dcook It could...
03:40 dcook But the question was "why are there cows on the label?"
03:40 dcook I do remember seeing a goat being milked in kindergarten...
03:40 dcook Advantages of country schools I suppose
03:40 mtompset I remember a kid bringing a lamb to school and having it poo pellets over the floor. ;)
03:41 dcook Touché
03:41 mtompset No, his name wasn't mary. :P
03:42 mtompset Well, just coded up a patch for another thing. I really need to get to submitting some of these.
03:42 mtompset perhaps that result count is wrong problem.
03:42 dcook Submitting is probably a good idea
03:42 mtompset that might be next.
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03:51 mtompset Well, have a good day (24 hour period), #koha.
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05:36 cait good morning
05:38 dcook hey ya cait :)
05:44 cait hi dcook :)
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06:28 reiveune hello
06:28 wahanui que tal, reiveune
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06:53 gaetan_B hello
06:54 wahanui salut, gaetan_B
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06:57 rhythem anyone there?
06:58 rhythem need some urgent help
06:59 sophie_m hi rhythem, what kind of help ?
06:59 rhythem i need some installation help in kohaa
06:59 rhythem koha*
07:00 sophie_m if you want some help you should tell us more about your probem
07:01 rhythem ok i installed koha on my localhost machine (UBUNTU 12.10) , but i am not able to procede any further after the make install command as in i dont have any clue of what to do next
07:01 rhythem install documentation does not seem to help me
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07:06 sophie_m Which version of koha, what kind of installation ?
07:07 dcook I'm just about to head off, but rhythem, you might find the following useful:[…]ubuntu_-_packages
07:07 dcook Packages are 100x easier than compiling from source/using the tarball
07:07 rhythem koha version 3.00.00 , i am sorry but what do mean by kind of installation?
07:08 sophie_m git, package, tarball...
07:08 rhythem i used tarball
07:08 sophie_m and the last stable version of koha is 3.12.00
07:09 sophie_m 3.00.00 is not supported any more
07:09 rhythem i think i installed it correctly as "make test" did not give any errors, also i have all the pre requesits installed
07:10 rhythem cant i install koha on localhost with preinstalled lampp server??
07:11 dcook rhythem: I've only package and git installs (the latter a while ago), but it sounds like maybe your next step is to run the web installer
07:12 dcook You do that by visiting the intranet page designated in your Apache config
07:12 rhythem dcook: please can you explain how can i do that?
07:13 dcook Having not done a tarball like install for a while...I'm not sure that's even the point that you're at
07:13 dcook Did you answer lots of prompts after make install?
07:14 rhythem yes i did answer a lot of prompts
07:14 dcook You're using the instructions at:[…]_ubuntu_-_tarball
07:14 dcook ?
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07:16 rhythem yes dcook i used these instructions
07:16 dcook So where are you up to?
07:16 rhythem Koha's files have now been installed.  In order to use Koha's command-line batch jobs, you should set the following environment variables:  export KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/koha-conf.xml export PERL5LIB=/usr/share/koha/lib  For other post-installation tasks, please consult the README.  You have new mail in /var/mail/root
07:17 rhythem i rant the commands just above pre web install
07:17 rangi do not install 3.00.00
07:17 rangi serioulsy
07:18 rangi stop, and start with something from this decade
07:18 rangi 3.0.0 was released in 2008
07:19 rangi i don't know where you would even have found it to download :)
07:19 rangi please let us know so we can move it
07:19 rhythem i just checked it is not 3.0.0 it is 3.12.0
07:20 dcook In that case, I would keep following those install steps, rhythem.
07:20 rangi 3.12.1 is the latest release, but at 3.12.0 should be ok
07:20 rhythem dcook i'll do that
07:24 rhythem i am getting an error
07:24 rhythem apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using for ServerName
07:25 rhythem i got this on apache2 restart
07:25 dcook Mmm, I think that might be more of a warning than an error
07:26 dcook I think I've got that as well when running it on localhost
07:26 rhythem oh ok.. i'll continue with the steps then
07:27 dcook Anyway, I have to run
07:27 dcook Good luck, rhythem
07:27 rhythem thanks dcook
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07:28 christophe_c hello #koha
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07:34 rhythem i am getting an error
07:34 wahanui i already had it that way, rhythem.
07:34 rhythem ln: failed to create symbolic link `/etc/apache2/sites-available/koha': File exists
07:34 rhythem can anyone explain this to me?
07:35 rhythem wahanui i didn't get you??
07:35 wahanui wish i knew, rhythem
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07:46 rhythem sophi_m can you help with this error
07:46 rhythem sudo ln -s /etc/koha/koha-httpd.conf /etc/apache2/sites-available/koha
07:46 rhythem ln: failed to create symbolic link `/etc/apache2/sites-available/koha': File exists
07:47 kf packages?
07:47 wahanui packages is at
07:48 rhythem kf?
07:48 wahanui i guess kf is very interested in accessibility
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08:09 rhythem i stilll cannot launch web setup
08:09 rhythem
08:10 rhythem gives unable to connect error in firefox :/
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08:17 kf hm?
08:17 kf hm have you activated port 8080 in apace?
08:17 kf does it listen on 8080?
08:20 rhythem yea i did that
08:20 rhythem i has Listen 80 and Listen 8080
08:20 rhythem both
08:20 rhythem could it be because i have xampp already installed on my pc?
08:22 rhythem netstat -nlp | grep httpd command did not show apache listening to 8080 :/
08:22 rhythem although i changed it in httpd-conf
08:23 rhythem tcp        0      0    *               LISTEN      22923/httpd      tcp        0      0   *               LISTEN      22923/httpd      unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     141783   31468/httpd         /opt/lampp/logs/cgisock.31439
08:24 rhythem i am trying a git install and i got this
08:24 rhythem Cloning into 'kohaclone'... fatal: unable to connect to[0:]: errno=Connection refused
08:24 rhythem seems like i am having a bad day :L(
08:25 kf hm sorry, i can install koha, but system administration is not my strong area
08:26 kf are you trying to install koha in windows?
08:27 kf ah, there is also a xampp for linux...
08:27 wahanui okay, kf.
08:27 kf forget xampp for linux
08:27 kf forget xampp
08:27 kf forget a xampp for linux
08:27 kf hm.
08:27 kf ok, never mind wahanui.
08:27 rhythem what to do then???? please help
08:28 kf i am trying to
08:28 kf so what are you trying to do?
08:28 kf :)
08:28 kf you want to do a git install
08:28 kf in which OS?
08:28 rhythem ubuntu 12.10
08:28 rhythem i just want to run web setup somehow
08:28 kf ok, that's good
08:29 rhythem what should i do?
08:29 kf have you followed a manual so far?
08:29 rhythem i guess yes i did manual
08:29 rhythem lemme give its link
08:29 rhythem just a second
08:30 rhythem[…]_ubuntu_-_tarball
08:33 kf hm
08:33 kf that's instructions for tarball
08:33 rhythem yeah
08:33 rhythem i did everithing and i just cannot proced to the step of web install
08:33 kf you said you wanted to do a git install
08:33 kf what's the goal of your installation?
08:34 kf do you want to to development? or just do some testing of koha?
08:36 rhythem i have to perform basic modification in koha files and that is purely for my personal use not like i am putting it somewhere i just want to test koha on my PC
08:36 kf hm
08:36 kf so did you do a git clone at some point?
08:36 kf still trying to figure out what you did so far
08:38 rhythem i did a git clone and got a connection refused error so i did a tarball instead
08:40 rhythem should i remove lampp from my pc?
08:50 rhythem i dont know how but the websetup started
08:52 rhythem but i got Access denied for user 'kohaadmin'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 646. now
08:53 kf ah
08:53 kf that's a clue
08:53 kf koha can't connect to your database
08:53 kf you probably told it something wrong when running the Makefile process
08:53 kf did you create a database in mysql?
08:56 rhythem i just di
08:56 rhythem did
08:56 rhythem named koha
08:56 rhythem username kohaadmin'@'localhost
08:56 rhythem but still the same error
08:56 rhythem how to check what i told the makefile?
08:56 kf have you granted the rights to that database to the kohaadmin user?
08:57 kf see here:[…]_Grant_Privileges
08:57 rhythem yea i granted all privledged
08:57 kf depending on what kind of installation you did from tarball
08:57 kf dev or standard
08:57 kf the conf file will be in different places
08:58 kf if it's dev it might be in /home/koha-dev/...
08:58 rhythem i did a standard installation
09:04 kf hm not sure about the path then
09:05 kf but if you did a standard, you are not doing a git installation
09:05 kf those are not compatible
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09:05 eythian hi
09:05 wahanui hey, eythian
09:31 bigbrovar joined #koha
09:34 eythian in case membership at your library is flagging, hows how you get them back:
09:34 eythian *here's
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10:51 rhythem someone there?
10:55 NateC joined #koha
10:57 eythian rhythem: probably
10:58 rhythem eythian i am having a problem
10:58 rhythem i ran koha and was able to start it
10:58 rhythem now i am in koha logged in properly
10:59 rhythem my problem is
10:59 rhythem i have to stop lampp server to view koha installation files on browser and to view phpmyadmin i have to start lampp and inturn this stops me from viewing koha'
11:01 eythian what do you mean by stopping/starting lampp?
11:01 eythian it might be that it's running its own web server on port 80, and that will conflict with apache.
11:02 rhythem see
11:02 rhythem to view koha i have to use url
11:02 rhythem now when i start lampp
11:02 rhythem this url takes me to localhost directory which is not my koha installation directly
11:03 eythian oh, in that case you'll have to move one of them to another port.
11:04 rhythem how would i do that??
11:05 eythian you'll have to configure them. I don't know where lampp has its configuration, but apache's is in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled on a Debian or Ubuntu server.
11:06 rhythem basically i want to be able to view multiple websites along with koha on my system
11:06 rhythem isn't it possible that i write something like localhost/koha and it takes me to koha directory???
11:07 eythian It is quite possible, but you're going to have to configure apache to let that happen.
11:07 rhythem could you please help me with this?
11:08 eythian Not really, I don't know anything about your setup. However, I'd start here:
11:08 eythian apache is quite well documented.
11:09 eythian wahanui: apache documentation
11:09 wahanui eythian: huh?
11:09 eythian wahanui: apache documentation is at
11:09 wahanui OK, eythian.
11:09 jcamins rhythem: Koha will not work installed in a subdirectory. Your best bet is definitely to change the port for something.
11:09 eythian ah yes, I missed that. jcamins is quite right.
11:10 rhythem what do you mean by port for something ??? i am a but amature at this so please explain if you dont mind
11:11 jcamins rhythem: here's an introduction to Apache that might help:[…]uction-to-apache/
11:11 jcamins I haven't read it, but if you're new to web servers, an introduction seems to me like a good start.
11:12 jcamins A capsule summary would be that the web server can show you different sites on different ports (like 80 and 8080 for the OPAC and staff client), but only one thing per port.
11:13 rhythem yea i know that basic stuff i dont know how to change this port thing and ol
11:13 jcamins Ah. In that case eythian's link should walk you through it.
11:14 eythian The first link in the User's Guide is "Binding to Addresses and Ports", that's a likely place to start.
11:16 rhythem okk let me just go through it once
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11:21 rhythem going by the link i tried to change my /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/000-default file to this
11:21 rhythem but this doesnt seem to work for me
11:22 eythian you probably don't want to change the default, you want to be changing the file that controls koha.
11:22 rhythem i dint get you ?
11:23 eythian you changed 000-default, however that isn't the file that manages the apache settings for koha.
11:23 eythian You need to modify the file that does. It's possibly called 'koha' or something like that, depending on how you've installed it.
11:24 rhythem no i dont want to mess with koha setting i just want my server to be able to point to koha and some other websites that i created in /opt/lampp/htdocs which happened to be the default localhost directory for lampp
11:25 rhythem finay i did all
11:26 eythian well the change you made will have put them on different ports.
11:26 rhythem i was not listening to port 4080 in apache's ports.conf
11:26 rhythem thanks everybody :)
11:26 eythian ah cool
11:28 rhythem ahh new error "D
11:28 rhythem :D
11:28 rhythem i had phpmyadmin istalled in lampp
11:28 rhythem and i used to access it via localhost/phpmyadmin
11:28 rhythem now i trued
11:29 rhythem* but it gave a 404 error
11:29 eythian it's possible it's still on :8080, but I really don't know how your system is set up.
11:31 rhythem 8080 is koha, /opt/lampp/htdocs is 4080
11:32 eythian there's more to it than that, e.g. I don't know anything about how your system is configured to access phpmyadmin.
11:32 rhythem what details do you need i'll give u
11:33 eythian you should find the phpmyadmin configuration and make sure it contains what you need it to.
11:34 rhythem wait a sec
11:34 eythian I haven't used it in forever so I don't know how it's set up.
11:34 eythian (and I have other work to be doing right now.)
11:34 rhythem ahh ok i'll work it around a bit then
11:34 rhythem thanks anyway for all the help :)
11:35 eythian np. I'm sure it'll be pretty straightforward once you see however it's set up.
11:35 rhythem yeah i hope :)
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12:07 oleonard Hi #koha
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12:52 tcohen morning #koha
13:21 * oleonard laughs at pianohacker's comment in yesterday's IRC log "oh god acquisitions nvm"
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13:30 oleonard khall around?
13:30 khall yo
13:31 oleonard How do you remove an individual reserve from a course?
13:32 khall In the course details, you'll see a list of items on reserve for that course, there is a remove link for each item.
13:33 oleonard Oh I see my problem. I randomly added an item which turned out to be lost, so the remove link is replaced with "item lost"
13:35 khall that'll do it!
13:40 oleonard Sorry khall I get the same results as jcamins on Bug 10382
13:40 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10382 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , collection not returning to null when removed from course reserves
13:41 khall I'll have to give it another run-though to see what I get
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13:50 oleonard Hi maximep
13:51 oleonard khall, you coming to Reno?
13:51 khall that's the plan!
13:52 oleonard Cool, it'll be nice to finally meet you in person
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13:52 maximep good morning =)
13:53 maximep you know you typed too much on your cellphone when you expect tab to autocomplete your words
13:55 eythian tab does autocomplete.
13:55 eythian at least on the command line, and why would you be anywhere else?
13:57 maximep not regular words :p
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14:13 tcohen don't u use swype maximep?
14:14 rambutan joined #koha
14:16 maximep swiftkey
14:17 maximep works better when I type in half french/english than swype
14:21 tcohen interesting maximep
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15:00 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10560: add regression test <[…]63d8449823f5cab4b> / Bug 10560: make it possible for default interface language to not be English <[…]7a6eb59b6174cf5fa>
15:07 reiveune bye
15:07 reiveune left #koha
15:08 kf khall: around?
15:08 khall kf: I've gotta run, but I'll be back shortly
15:09 kf just wondering if you could take alook at my comment on bug 10490
15:09 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10490 major, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Failed QA , Overdue fines cap (amount) in circulation rules is saved incorrectly (rounded)
15:09 kf my goal is to don't have people lose data.
15:09 kf which will happen - this database update messes up data
15:10 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10422 - Remove references to unused and non-existent wizard.css <[…]8a8df87488ab3aeb6>
15:10 khall kf, that makes sense now. i don't know why I didn't realize that earlier. Passing though that update will badly round the numbers.
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15:10 khall I can pass qa on that now, thanks for the clarity ; )
15:10 kf oh good heh
15:10 kf :)
15:10 kf have a nice weekend!
15:12 khall you too!
15:13 jenkins_koha Starting build #1305 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
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15:24 oleonard Why don't the INSTALL.ubuntu.12.04 instructions say to use dpkg like the debian instructions do?
15:25 jcamins oleonard: because dpkg is broken under Ubuntu.
15:26 oleonard How so? I thought I used it in previous installations.
15:26 pianohacker wait what?
15:26 wahanui is Godot coming?
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15:27 jcamins It tries to install i386 packages on amd64, resulting in things failing spectacularly.
15:27 jcamins Apparently.
15:28 pianohacker well, that's rather spectacularly unintelligent
15:29 jcamins Yeah. I never looked into the issue, but I understand that Ubuntu (and maybe Wheezy now?) default to allowing you to run i386 code on amd64 systems (logical), but dpkg is not (and possibly will not?) able to handle that.
15:31 pianohacker interesting. Does it install everything, even bare .dpkgs, through apt or what?
15:31 kf bye all and have a nice weekend :)
15:31 jcamins Nah, dpkg installs individual packages, it just can't install dependencies.
15:34 eythian jcamins: I think it works fine
15:34 jcamins eythian: cool. Guess the Ubuntu instructions could be updated.
15:35 eythian there are/were issues with apt and multiarch resolution, but I haven't heard about them in a while.
15:35 eythian Should set up a test vm and try it to be sure.
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16:20 rambutan loris?
16:20 rambutan wahanui: loris?
16:20 wahanui rambutan: bugger all, i dunno
16:29 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1305: SUCCESS in 1 hr 16 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1305/
16:29 jenkins_koha * Robin Sheat: Bug 10560: make it possible for default interface language to not be English
16:29 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 10560: add regression test
16:29 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 10422 - Remove references to unused and non-existent wizard.css
16:29 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10560 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Master , No way to disable english
16:29 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10422 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Remove references to unused and non-existent wizard.css
16:35 gaetan_B bye !
17:12 tcohen gmcharlt: r u ok with the followup for bug 9735?
17:12 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9735 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Choose language using URL parameters in any page
17:14 gmcharlt tcohen: in principle; would have to test it
17:26 tcohen gmcharlt: thanks, i want to drop it from my TODO list
17:31 oleonard Dangit, zebra permissions *always* trip me up on a new dev install.
17:41 pianohacker oleonard: After several git installs, I did my most recent one by hand, without Makefile.PL. Editing the conf files was a bit tedious, but the rest of it was actually easier
17:43 jcamins Huh. I haven't had any problems with git installs recently.
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18:10 oleonard I'm probably following the install instructions too closely, not stopping when I should be saying "Whoa, that sounds dumb, I'm not going to do that!"
18:31 pianohacker live a little, oleonard, install Koha like a cowboy!
18:31 NateC joined #koha
18:32 oleonard Yeah, a cowboy! I'm going to go find a Koha someone already installed and rustle it.
18:33 pianohacker boy, there's only room for one sysadmin in this town
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18:33 drojf good evening #koha
18:34 * oleonard uh... menaces pianohacker with another cowboy-related metaphor
18:35 pianohacker "Now, in all that excitement, I lost track of whether my Zebra reindex failed 5 times or 6"
18:35 oleonard Sorry bub, that's not a western!
18:36 rambutan hi drojf
18:37 pianohacker hahahaha well
18:37 pianohacker It's clint eastwood, he was in westerns, it works kinda :)
18:53 laurence joined #koha
19:08 cait joined #koha
19:51 mtompset joined #koha
19:53 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
19:55 mtompset "Welcome to the Koha IRC channel. Please use for long pastes." might be a better topic. :)
19:57 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the Koha IRC channel. The next general meeting is 7 August 2013 at 02:00 UTC. Please use for long pastes
20:02 mtompset Thanks, gmcharlt. :)
20:06 NateC left #koha
20:08 cait :)
20:09 mtompset Greetings, cait gmcharlt. :)
20:09 cait hi mtompset and gmcharlt
20:17 gmcharlt howdy
20:20 pianohacker gmcharlt: recievedlist in subscriptionhistory rather than receivedlist :(
20:20 * gmcharlt winces
20:20 pianohacker why do they do these things to us?
20:21 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10490: DBrev <[…]e6fb8380379bac7b8> / Bug 10490: Overdue fines cap can't store decimal values <[…]8f3c7b7cd386e6d92>
20:21 pianohacker they should wthdraw their spelling mistakes or recieve a good beating, I'd say
20:21 gmcharlt don't you mean beeting?
20:21 * gmcharlt laces up running shoes
20:22 pianohacker hehe
20:25 cait my patch made it in! yay!
20:25 cait :)
20:25 cait makes me happy every single time it happens heh :)
20:25 cait pianohacker: there is file named receivesomething, are we talking about that one?
20:26 pianohacker nope, column in subscription history
20:27 pianohacker been helping a coworker with serials migrations lately
20:27 cait looks like you are really busy :)
20:27 cait i will see if i can find the one i was thinking about
20:28 cait and i meant recieve of course... there are more typos with that one
20:28 cait[…]st=grep&s=recieve
20:28 cait intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/​serials/
20:31 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10529: Remove hardcoded dollar from patron message <[…]eaee406b569199c1f> / Bug 10527: remove disused routine C4::Branch::get_branch_code_from_name <[…]f8ecdbcea3bddb3b5>
20:31 jenkins_koha Starting build #1306 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
20:32 mtompset cait: Congratulations on the love you feel triggered by a patch making it in. :)
20:33 cait hm?
20:33 mtompset You said happy.
20:33 mtompset For me, it's the community expressing love. :)
20:34 cait not sure i get you - but i was serious, it's something special always that i can fix things and make it work better. even if it might be a bit silly :)
20:35 mtompset Just chalk this up to a communication failure and that I understand what you mean, but can't express it. ;)
20:37 cait heh, i might be in a weird mood too - i feel like I am finally not totally overtired for the first time this week
20:37 mtompset Out of curiosity, does anyone know if someone started a new bug related to bug 2318?
20:37 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2318 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, Attempting to view details of a biblio that does not exists results in a 404 error
20:37 cait hm that sounds like we fixed it in the opac a whlie ago
20:38 mtompset because OPAC still does the 404 thing.
20:38 cait what's prompting your question?
20:38 cait hm, or we fixed it in staff... i know it was only one or the other
20:38 mtompset I think tcohen fixed it in staff.
20:38 mtompset[…]blionumber=999999
20:39 mtompset for example, still pull up a koha 404 page inside of the nice OPAC theme. :)
20:39 mtompset ^pull^pulls^
20:40 mtompset As for what is prompting my question, I am working on a patch to hide the bibilo detail, if all the items are OpacHiddenItems'd.
20:41 cait hm
20:41 cait that should already work that way
20:41 cait actually
20:41 mtompset Nope it doesn't.
20:41 cait well it did when i tested it
20:41 cait but there is a bug in that you can stll access the page directly
20:41 mtompset if you know the biblionumber, you can pull up the detail screen.
20:41 cait which i filed and drojf was working on
20:41 mtompset where is that?
20:41 wahanui i guess that is a good idea.
20:41 cait it will hide it from the result lists
20:42 mtompset it is already hidden in the results list.
20:42 cait @query opachiddenitems
20:42 huginn` cait: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7386 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, cnighswonger, NEW , Label batches cannot be batch deleted
20:42 huginn` cait: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6705 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , hide withdrawn items
20:42 huginn` cait: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9966 minor, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Incorrect 404 when a search returns one result hidden by OpacHiddenItems
20:42 huginn` cait: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8619 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Remove hidelostitems syspref
20:42 huginn` cait: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9607 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , pagination wrong if  OPACShowUnusedAuthorities  set to "don't show"
20:42 cait let me find it
20:43 cait ah
20:43 cait i was thinking bug 10195
20:43 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10195 normal, P5 - low, ---, mirko, ASSIGNED , Records hidden with OpacSuppression can still be accessed
20:43 cait but you are right, it's also true for opachiddenitems
20:43 mtompset Ah, okay... not quite overlap then. ;)
20:44 mtompset But he will have the same kind of what to do other than 404 question.
20:45 cait i think drojf had a nice idea aboutthat
20:45 cait showing a message and also have a customizable area to add your own text with a syspref
20:46 mtompset so it sounds like one of us will have to rebase our patch, depending on who is pushed first.
20:50 cait yeah
20:51 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10475 - Item form in acquisition not hiding subfields properly <[…]3d12ec25e0e8e23a0>
20:54 mtompset coding guidelines
20:54 wahanui coding guidelines are[…]Coding_Guidelines
20:55 mtompset Any suggestions as to whether or not one should "# this will blah" comment code in our patches?
20:56 pianohacker comments are good, no need to go crazy, but they're almost always helpful
20:56 cait ^^
21:01 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10507: improve warning about duplicate patron attribute value <[…]5f127940072e54d4d>
21:01 gmcharlt but note that comments are best when they explain the *intent* of the code
21:01 gmcharlt i.e., please don't do this
21:01 gmcharlt $i++; # increment $i by one
21:02 mtompset No, I meant commenting for a block of code.
21:02 mtompset That example, is just plain overkill and stupid.
21:04 pianohacker mtompset: use your best judgment, for example, the "will I wonder what idiot wrote this when I come back in a year" test
21:05 cait heh
21:05 gmcharlt mtompset: but even for comments that describe a block, there's a fine line with comments that end up providing no more information than what reading the code does
21:06 gmcharlt hence ... intent, which is something that often can't be deduced
21:06 pianohacker yes
21:08 mtompset is int(undef) obviously 0?
21:10 Dyrcona pianohacker: When I run git blame to see what idiot wrote this, I most often my name on the line(s) in question. :)
21:10 mtompset And that's the worst kind of problem to have, Dyrcona. :)
21:11 gmcharlt Dyrcona: which is why the population of programmes will suffer an immediate decline if anybody invents a time machine
21:11 gmcharlt (to say nothing of the rise in temporal paradoces)
21:11 Dyrcona heh
21:12 mtompset decline? Wouldn't that cause an increase? Because the code would be fixed before it was broken.
21:12 gmcharlt depends if the default reaction is to shoot first ;)
21:13 pastebot "gmcharlt" at pasted "mtompset - to answer your question, yes, but not in a useful fashion" (3 lines) at
21:14 mtompset So, I should || 0 to kill the silent warning while I'm at it. ;)
21:15 maximep left #koha
21:16 mtompset where is the qa tools repo again?
21:18 mtompset found it.
21:22 pug1 joined #koha
21:25 druthb o/
21:25 mtompset Greetings, druthb.
21:26 druthb Hi, mtompset! :)
21:26 cait hi druthb
21:27 * druthb wriggles happily
21:29 * mtompset throws skittles at druthb in a pre-emptive strike since druthb threatened to throw some more often at him. ;)
21:30 druthb :)
21:31 rambutan >diff wriggles wiggles
21:32 mtompset which is more intuitive $array[$#array] or $array[-1], in your opinion?
21:33 cait not using arrays? :P
21:33 * cait has a difficult relationship with arrays
21:33 * mtompset chuckles, "Nice answer, cait."
21:33 cait especially in java.
21:34 mtompset Then I don't suggest you try thinking about arrays in bash. ;)
21:34 cait mtompset: about the skittles - you will only provide her with more ammunition
21:34 druthb rambutan: wiggling is what a kid does when they are bored.   Wriggling is what  a happy puppy does!
21:35 rambutan ic. well, sorta. sorta not, but that's OK
21:35 mtompset cait, it's virtual, so I think druthb perceives it more as a since of friendship rather than a way to hoard ammunition to have massive payback. :P
21:35 mtompset ^since^sign^
21:36 cait we will see when you are covered in skittles :)
21:36 druthb :P
21:36 drojf relationship with a ray? … was it mj?
21:36 * drojf puts 5€ in the reallybadpun-jar
21:37 cait hi drojf
21:37 mtompset Hey, drojf. Just the person I wanted to bug. ;)
21:37 mtompset I wanted to ask you about a bug that cait was mentioning you were working on.
21:37 drojf no bugging tonight, going to bed. don't want to stay up until 5 again
21:38 drojf if it is a really fast question… ;)
21:38 cait drojf: 5!!
21:38 drojf half past actually
21:38 mtompset Are you touching opac/ And if so, which part?
21:39 mtompset I want to know how bad a rebase of my patch will be if you get pushed first. ;)
21:39 drojf yes i am. the beginning, after the 404, before it really starts
21:39 drojf i think
21:39 cait drojf: tsk.
21:39 drojf i mean the redirection to 404
21:40 mtompset drojf: Up until 5am?! Now that's commitment. ;)
21:40 drojf i do a redirection there too in acse the record is not allowed
21:40 mtompset I'm working on a patch just before the 404.
21:40 drojf i did not want to, i just could not sleep
21:40 mtompset Remember the hiddenitems conversation we were talking about? :)
21:40 drojf what are you doing before the 404?
21:40 drojf yes
21:41 drojf i don't think anything should happen before the 404 check, but maybe that is just me ;)
21:41 mtompset checking if all the items for a bibilio are hidden, and if so, changing the biblionumber to 0, to trigger the 404. :)
21:41 drojf does not seem like the straightest way to do it but will probably work
21:42 mtompset It does work. I have the patch working and tested.
21:42 drojf not sure if it is technically ok to use a fake 404
21:42 drojf but i was thinking about it too, as an option
21:43 drojf either be redirected to a page that explains why you are not allowed to view the record or 404 if its "really" secret
21:43 mtompset did you see bug 2318?
21:43 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2318 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, Attempting to view details of a biblio that does not exists results in a 404 error
21:43 cait i filed a bug for authorities giving you a 404 when you try to search fo ra non-existing one... if you 2 get bored...
21:44 mtompset cait: Oh thank you so much! (that's sarcasm, by the way)
21:44 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1306: SUCCESS in 1 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1306/
21:44 jenkins_koha * Katrin Fischer: Bug 10490: Overdue fines cap can't store decimal values
21:44 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 10490: DBrev
21:44 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 10527: remove disused routine C4::Branch::get_branch_code_from_name
21:44 jenkins_koha * Colin Campbell: Bug 10529: Remove hardcoded dollar from patron message
21:44 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10490 major, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , Overdue fines cap (amount) in circulation rules is saved incorrectly (rounded)
21:44 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10527 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , C4::Branch::get_branch_code_from_name is useless
21:44 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10529 minor, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Master , Dollar sign hardcoded in patron message
21:45 drojf mtompset: i did not know that one
21:46 jenkins_koha Starting build #1307 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:46 mtompset I figure if the biblio is suppressed, all the items are hidden, or the biblionumber does not exist, it will need to output the same thing.
21:46 mtompset Though, I think 404 is the wrong output.
21:48 drojf i don't think so. what i am doing is supposed to give you a hint. like "you can only see the details from within the university network". what you are doing is supposed to… probably not tell anything? and the no biblio available should give a hint on that. alternatively, that may be ok for you too
21:48 drojf but not for me. or if so, only as an additional option
21:50 mtompset good point on the "why is the item hidden". If it is hidden because they aren't allowed to see it, that is different than hidden/suppressed because they need to ask the library staff about it.
21:50 drojf what i am going to do is, have one line saying the access is bloicked and a syspref to customize the rest of the information.
21:51 drojf so you can change it to your needs
21:51 drojf or just leave it blank
21:51 mtompset what about the case the biblio doesn't exist?
21:51 drojf not my bug
21:51 drojf :)
21:52 drojf anyhow, going to bed. see you at 3am if i can't sleep again :/
21:52 mtompset Do try to get some good sleep.
21:52 mtompset Bye, drojf.
22:03 cait @wunder Konstanz
22:03 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 15.5°C (11:55 PM CEST on July 12, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
22:07 * Dyrcona blinks.
22:07 * Dyrcona forgot it is tomorrow in NZ.
22:11 cait hm ok
22:11 cait i might be too tired
22:11 cait can someone take a look at this if/else here?
22:11 cait[…]ment.cgi?id=18722
22:11 cait and tell me if they can spot a difference?
22:11 cait ooh
22:12 cait ok, i AM too tired
22:12 cait i will look at this again tomorrow, my clue to go to bed :)
22:13 tcohen joined #koha
22:13 cait hi tcohen :)
22:14 tcohen hi cait
22:14 cait tcohen: looking forward to the weekend? :)
22:18 cait left #koha
22:24 sophie_m joined #koha
22:24 pianohacker jcamins: You around by any crazy chance? Was curious about Koha::Record
22:43 rambutan left #koha
22:46 pianohacker good night, all
22:46 aquaman joined #koha
22:52 tcohen yes cait
22:52 tcohen ph
22:52 tcohen oh
23:00 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1307: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 14 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1307/
23:00 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 10475 - Item form in acquisition not hiding subfields properly
23:00 jenkins_koha * Colin Campbell: Bug 10507: improve warning about duplicate patron attribute value
23:00 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10475 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Master , Item form in acquisition not hiding subfields properly
23:00 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10507 trivial, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Master , Typo when warning about creating duplicate patron attribute
23:00 jenkins_koha Starting build #1308 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1306 2 hr 29 min ago)
23:03 cait joined #koha
23:26 * mtompset chuckles, "AllowTooManyOverride -- nice name."
23:26 mtompset Greetings, tcohen.
23:41 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10514: improve visibility of Add item link on new order form <[…]1f2ef8ccecf497868>
23:52 tcohen hi mtompset
23:52 tcohen another national university went live with 3.12 today
23:52 mtompset Did you get all the bookings sorted out?
23:52 mtompset Cool.
23:53 tcohen i got my plane reservation
23:53 tcohen not sure how it went between the accountant and the travel agency
23:54 tcohen but yeah, looks like i'm almost going to reno :-D

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