IRC log for #koha, 2013-07-04

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:16 BobB bag are you about?
00:26 dcook joined #koha
00:26 dcook morning #koha
00:27 dcook Apparently this is the morning of long rants
00:27 dcook On my part :p
00:29 dcook bgkriegel++
01:03 druthb o/
01:18 mtj peeps, can i get someone to help me with some WTF perl code… please
01:18 mtj /C4/, line 1023
01:19 mtj if (($ok = scalar(keys %fields2Delete)) > 0) { … }
01:19 druthb If there are any fields2Delete, then...
01:19 druthb keys produces an array of the hash, with the names of the keys.  The scalar then counts how many there are..
01:20 mtj ok, so wouldnt that just be...
01:20 mtj if (   scalar(keys %fields2Delete) > 0 ) { … }
01:20 mtj or…
01:20 mtj if (   scalar(keys %fields2Delete)  ) { … }
01:20 druthb The $ok just stashes that number in $ok.  If you use it somewhere else, you'll need it, rather than recalculating it.
01:21 mtj its the '$ok = ' assignment thats confusing me here :/
01:21 druthb if $ok is not used later to do something based on how many there are, then either of your forms would work.  TIMTOWTDI.
01:23 mtj ah, click
01:23 mtj i didnt click that the assigment was appening before the evaluation :/
01:23 druthb For *readability*, including the > 0 is a good idea, but functionally, it'll be the same, since the hash will never have less than zero keys.
01:25 mtj ah, and then later….
01:25 mtj if (($numDeletedAux = _import_table()
01:26 mtj thanks for the brainslap ruth
01:26 druthb no worries!  Glad to help.
01:26 druthb I was worried I might be out of practice; don't get to brainslap as often these days.  My new coworkers are *scary* smart.
01:27 druthb As good a dev as everyone seems to think I am in these parts--I'm a moron next to some of my teammates.
01:34 mtj you're in safe company, with me
01:41 mtompset For readability, I personally like the assignments out of the if conditions. Though, I am not sure if that is the preferred standard thing to do.
01:41 rangi i do too
01:41 rangi but thats a just personal preference
01:48 mtj yeah, me too… ill take KISS  over TIMMYTOADY any day
01:49 jcamins Just as an aside, can't you just do `if (%fields2Delete)`?
01:49 jcamins I mean, if there are no keys, the hash is empty.
01:50 jcamins And if the hash is empty, it's false.
01:50 mtompset *smirk* Perhaps someone else was overthinking it too, druthb? ;)
01:51 druthb It does happen.   It's like dandruff; lots of people have it and seem to get substantial pleasure from fiddling with it, but it's generally not a *huge* problem.
01:53 mtompset Because jcamins' suggested if is short and elegant. :)
01:56 druthb There's a fine line to be found between elegance/cleverness, and readability; depending on who's maintaining your code, that line could *move.*
01:56 druthb a ternary if statement buried inside a map statement is short and elegant, but a challenge to read.
02:10 mtompset map statements are harder to read than if statements. :P
02:11 druthb yep.  Koha doesn't use many of either--and given the raft of people we'd like to contribute code, that's probably a good thing.
02:21 mtompset mtj: Are you still doing the document clean up thing?
02:21 mtompset documentation.
02:21 wahanui i heard documentation was at
02:22 mtompset Thanks, wahanui.
02:22 wahanui no worries mtompset
02:24 druthb wahanui: botsnack cookie
02:24 wahanui :)
03:08 wizzyrea what are we gonna do about all of these unimarc bugs
03:09 wizzyrea *that need signoff
03:23 bag BobB: I am now
03:29 druthb hi, bag!
03:29 bag heya druthb - have fun with the drone?
03:34 mtompset does anyone have good links as to why running a production system from a live dvd is a stupid idea?
03:34 druthb so far, yeah.  Fun for torturing the cats. :)
03:35 Irma1 bag Hi! Bobb is now irma1
03:36 bag hey BobB as Irma1
03:36 bag HA druthb that sounds really fun and funny
03:36 Irma1 bag ;-)
03:37 Irma1 re OpacLocalCoverImage
03:37 Irma1 and using Koha as a CMS
03:37 * druthb tries to picture BobB trying to disguise himself as Irma.  Don't think it'd work.
03:38 Irma1 the resolution of the image when max pixels full size 800x600 is still too small for one to be able to read ... let's say a scanned arched letter from 1920
03:38 Irma1 g'day druthb ;-0
03:39 Irma1 *archived letter
03:39 bag ah Irma1 I'm wondering if 800x600 is a hardcoded limit somewhere in the code?
03:39 druthb I would think using Koha as a CMS would be like trying to put shoes on the wrong feet.  Sure, but....
03:39 Irma1 I think it is
03:40 Irma1 so what I am trying to do can't be done at the moment ...
03:41 Irma1 but could it be an enhancement of OpacLocalCoverImage and would receive a new name OpacLocalDocumentImage ...
03:42 bag yeah something like that…
03:42 bag druthb: it works for small local history things - but not a big CMS :)
03:42 bag IMO but that O doesn't always agree with everyone :D
03:43 druthb That's my thinking, too.  Photos, maybe, but documents..  it'd be like Bob trying to put on Irma's heels.  Difficult.
03:45 Irma1 bag have you been asked for this requirement rarely or often?
03:45 mtompset Have a good day, #koha.
03:45 wizzyrea Irma - the other thing to do
03:45 wizzyrea would be to use the 856u as Image thinger
03:45 wizzyrea and keep the files elsewhere.
03:45 bag well rarely for docs
03:46 bag but all time for images
03:46 bag docs libraries here ask to attach them to borrowers
03:46 Irma1 hi wizzyrea ... yes but libraries need to have an "elsewhere" or keep asking us to store the document for them on our servers
03:46 wizzyrea that's fine, just don't store them *in* koha
03:46 wizzyrea store them *beside* koha
03:47 wizzyrea as an example
03:47 wizzyrea and probably a bad one
03:48 wizzyrea wordpress offers super easy file system based uploading of pictures
03:48 wizzyrea you could give them a wordpress, have them upload through that, then link to it
03:48 bag yeah those are good ideas
03:48 bag if you want higher resolution.
03:48 wizzyrea or something like a Gallery
03:48 wizzyrea same deal
03:48 Irma1 my question is really for libraries that can't afford an "elsewhere" but also can't afford our time to upload scanned documents on a daily basis ...
03:49 wizzyrea no, they would be doing it
03:49 Irma1 good suggestions wizzyrea thanks
03:49 wizzyrea you would just be hosting the mechanism
03:49 wizzyrea by which they got them to your server
03:49 wizzyrea they would be responsible for putting in the 856's
03:49 wizzyrea[…]bv.48705608,d.d2k
03:49 wizzyrea oh bad link
03:49 wizzyrea sec
03:49 wizzyrea
03:50 wizzyrea ^ pretty simple image storage
03:50 bag one problem of placing high res photos in koha - would be the database would be very bloated really quickly - which is fine if you don't care about speed
03:50 wizzyrea yea, I always thought keeping them in the DB was a mistake
03:50 wizzyrea FS much faster.
03:50 wizzyrea if you have good IO
03:51 wizzyrea gallery is good because it automagically does stuff like thumbnails
03:51 wizzyrea wp does too
03:51 Irma1 do you know what their max image dimension is?
03:52 wizzyrea I think they accept any size.
03:53 Irma1 worthwhile exploring further ... thank you and talk soon wizzyrea, bag and druthb 8-)
03:53 bag later Bob as Irma1
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04:52 Oak jcamins++
04:52 * Oak waves
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05:50 dcook joined #koha
05:51 dcook Having xchat issues today...
05:51 dcook mtj: Are you around?
05:51 dcook I seem to have trouble finding the bug that adds the new MARC21 fields...
05:52 dcook Of course, as soon as I say that, I find it :P
05:57 * cait waves
05:57 cait @wunder Konstanz
05:57 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 15.8°C (7:55 AM CEST on July 04, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 96%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
05:59 dcook joined #koha
06:00 dcook Bah...internet or xchat...
06:00 dcook bug 5858
06:00 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5858 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, bgkriegel, Needs Signoff , Update default MARC21 framework to Update No. 16 (April 2013)
06:01 dcook marcelr++
06:04 cait morning dcook
06:04 dcook hey ya cait :)
06:05 dcook How's the morning going?
06:09 cait just started
06:09 cait so far so good :)
06:09 dcook Yay!
06:29 * magnuse waves
06:29 dcook hey ya magnuse :)
06:29 magnuse hiya dcook
06:29 magnuse @wunder boo
06:29 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 13.0°C (8:20 AM CEST on July 04, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
06:31 christophe_c joined #koha
06:31 magnuse bonjour christophe_c
06:31 christophe_c hello #koha
06:31 magnuse @wunder marseille
06:31 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 21.0°C (8:08 AM CEST on July 04, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
06:31 christophe_c salut magnuse ;-)
06:33 paul_p joined #koha
06:35 magnuse kia ora paul_p
06:35 alex_a bonjour
06:35 wahanui que tal, alex_a
06:36 paul_p good morning magnuse
06:36 paul_p yesterday the "tour de france" arrived in Marseille. Big trouble in traffic ... (I didn't went to see it)
06:37 magnuse yeah, i saw a brief glimpse on the news
06:37 magnuse someone from norway came in second place, i think
06:38 paul_p After a meeting, at 10:30PM, I tried to come back home, and had to face some police & closed roads...
06:39 magnuse yeah, it must be crazy
06:39 reiveune joined #koha
06:39 reiveune hello
06:45 magnuse bonjour reiveune
06:45 reiveune hey magnuse dcook :)
06:46 gaetan_B joined #koha
06:46 dcook hey ya reiveune :)
06:46 dcook salut gaetan_B
06:46 gaetan_B hellol #koha
06:46 gaetan_B salut dcook, ça va ?
06:48 dcook Oui, ça va assez bien :). Ca va?
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06:52 jajm hello
06:52 wahanui niihau, jajm
06:53 alex_a niihau jajm :)
06:55 gaetan_B dcook: yep je quitte l'Irak ce soir, le projet est bientôt fini :)
06:56 gaetan_B anyone knows at what time our translation manager is usually around there ?
07:01 magnuse i think bgkriegel shows up around the same time as other americans - ~1pm our time?
07:03 drojf joined #koha
07:03 drojf good morning #koha
07:07 rangi evening
07:09 drojf hi rangi
07:10 dcook gaetan_B: C'est super! Bon voyage ce soir :).
07:10 dcook morning drojf
07:11 dcook I think it's time for me to run for the night..
07:11 drojf hi dcook
07:11 drojf and good night :)
07:11 dcook Thanks :)
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07:14 dcook night / bonne soirée
07:18 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
07:18 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 21.3°C (9:13 AM CEST on July 04, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Rising).
07:19 rangi @wunder nzwn
07:19 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0°C (7:00 PM NZST on July 04, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
07:20 drojf ugh. it's almost dark and looks like ~10°. if it is in fact >20 under these conditions it will be really unpleasant
07:20 * drojf considers hiding in bed
07:22 asaurat joined #koha
07:23 asaurat hi
07:23 drojf bonjour asaurat
07:28 magnuse kia ora rangi drojf sophie_m asaurat
07:29 drojf hei magnuse
07:33 Viktor joined #koha
07:34 Oak magnuse
07:34 Oak @wunder islamabad
07:34 huginn Oak: The current temperature in Islamabad, Pakistan is 37.0°C (12:00 PM PKT on July 04, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 26.0°C. Pressure: 29.59 in 1002 hPa (Rising).
07:35 magnuse Oak
07:35 magnuse gah, too late :-)
07:35 magnuse hiya Viktor
07:35 Viktor Hej magnuse
07:35 Oak :)
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08:12 paul_p all = welcome to Mael, clrh baby, that was born 30 hours ago !
08:13 drojf aaaw. congratulations clrh!
08:14 drojf and a new koha developer soon :D
08:16 magnuse yay, congrats to clrh and her family!
08:16 magnuse and to biblibre :-)
08:19 rangi congrats!!!
08:22 magnuse cool name! :-)
08:23 magnuse heh, both Moskstraumen and Saltstraumen are within spitting distance (almost) of where i live :-)
08:38 rangi hm the thanks emails are all nice, but i think missing the point :)
08:39 eythian joined #koha
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08:42 samueld hi everybody :-)
08:43 sami joined #koha
08:44 sami Hi!
08:45 rangi hi sami, eythian and samueld
08:45 sami I need to install koha on my server, so could someone provide me link where I can find instructions oh how to do it.
08:46 samueld sami: look at this link[…]gory:Installation
08:47 samueld now, it depends on the system which is installed on your server and the method you want to use (git,tarball, debian package..)
08:48 magnuse rangi: did you ever get the my_prove part of MyTAP to work?
08:48 rangi its been a long time since i tried, i cant remember
08:49 magnuse ok, no worries
08:50 sami I created a website on, and I m trying to install koha on it
08:50 drojf sami: if you do not know what all that means and you plan on USING koha, not DEVLOPING it, you want[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
08:50 drojf developing even
08:52 drojf sami: you cannot run koha on a webhosting solution. you'd need a vserver or root server. you are not allowed to install software on what you got there
08:52 Viktor_away joined #koha
08:53 drojf (it would be fancy if webhosting companies offered koha as a oneclick software option as they do with wordpress etc. though)
08:53 sami yeah
08:54 Viktor_away Great idea!
08:54 drojf hej Viktor_active
08:55 Viktor Hi drojf
08:55 sami So the only options for me to run Koha is to run it on my PC or rent a sever?
08:55 magnuse well some of us do offer services quite similar to that :-)
08:56 Viktor magnuse Yes. It's mostly a psychological difference.
08:57 drojf magnuse: but you offer only koha, not all the usual stuff you get with a webhosting i assume. i think i can click stuff like mediawiki, forums, webshops, wordpress etc
08:57 magnuse is probably the most streamlined offer
08:57 magnuse drojf: true
08:57 magnuse but i'd like to offer something like that to libraries
08:58 magnuse just check which "web things" your library needs, and it will be up and running in 2 minutes
08:58 magnuse it'll take a while before i get there, though :-)
08:59 Viktor Interesting. That would be useful.
08:59 Viktor But the really big deal is an import function.
09:00 Viktor It's not very many (over here at least) that start from the beginning.
09:00 drojf given all the possible formats it seems highly unlikely to work automatically
09:00 Viktor A clean install is more relevant with wiki, forums, blogs etc. For Koha importing from the old system is more important.
09:00 Viktor drojf Very much so yes...
09:01 Viktor But for Swedish public libraries you could cover nearly all the market with three import formats.
09:01 Viktor But keeping them up to date is difficult...
09:02 magnuse yeah, and i think there will always be local variations that you have to account for, sadly
09:02 Viktor Maybe if the librarians themselves could map field in the old database to the new.
09:03 Viktor But it would be a lot of work anyway.
09:03 Viktor magnuse true
09:09 drojf keeping it up to date and making local variations work might take longer than to do the import without complete automation ;)
09:13 magnuse drojf: true
09:14 magnuse there could be an automated, low quality service for free "we'll get your data into koha, but with no guarantee that it's perfect", and then a paid service with custom import scripts etc, perhaps
09:16 Viktor magnuse That might work. A "basic (automated)" import option would be useful for libraries to try it out with their own data.
09:18 magnuse yup, and see how much goes wrong
09:18 magnuse and if it's worth it to pay for custom work
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09:29 Viktor magnuse Sounds like a good idea if it can be done without too much effort
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09:31 lds joined #koha
09:31 Viktor btw I noticed something that can be a problem. When checking out books you can scan decently fast. But if a message lights up you loose focus from the checkout box and scan the barcode to patrons instead.
09:31 magnuse Viktor: it would take a bit of effort, i think :-)
09:32 Viktor magnuse - Yes, and it's only really relevant to libraries that already have control over their data.
09:33 Viktor magnuse Since everyone has to pay a quite large amount to get their data out so they can take Koha for a spin I don't think it's really all that helpful.
09:33 Viktor magnuse Or - it is. It's just that other things create obstacles.
09:33 drojf it could probably be a out of the box feature in koha. "try to make the best of whatever data you throw at it"
09:34 magnuse obstacles--
09:35 Viktor drojf Getting a visual interface to whatever data you import and be able to map it as you like would be sweet. And useful to some at least. Many still run their own server and might be able to just import the whole database.
09:36 Viktor It takes some thinking any which way...
09:37 drojf i don't think we will see this developed without some libraries paying it. it might be an antifeature for companies that do koha development and data import to pay themselves for a feature that will lead to less people paying for data import
09:37 Viktor Maybe a connector that screenscrapes opacs could be useful for those who just want to see their own titles and add a few borrowers etc?
09:38 Viktor (I've built such scripts for other uses)
09:38 drojf cool, you got the job! :)
09:38 Viktor drojf :)
09:39 Viktor I have to update to connectors for and Book-IT here during the autumn I think so I'll keep it in mind.
09:40 Viktor But I'd be very happy if I could get out of creating valid MARC records.
09:41 gaetan_B joined #koha
09:41 drojf that reminds me i started doing that for movie data from IMDB at some point. it's somewhere on the very-low-priority todo pile i think
09:43 Viktor Sound like fun. But these things have a way of getting stuck on that pile :)
09:43 drojf it's a huge pile :D
09:43 Viktor But I'll at least save the idea for later
09:43 Viktor It truly is :)
09:43 drojf one day i will get stuck under that pile :/
09:44 drojf nah it's nice to know i will not be bored until the end of the world. so many unfinished stuff and ideas
09:44 drojf much stuff, many ideas
09:44 drojf my english is very german today
09:45 Viktor Time is a bigger problem than ideas for sure :)
09:46 Viktor Is there a way to place holds on stuff that don't have any items yet? So you're first in line when the library actually gets item.
09:48 drojf not sure if that works when you do not use item level holds
09:48 drojf i mean the place holds on specific items thing
09:52 Viktor Ah yes. Might want to fiddle a bit with those settings.
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09:53 Viktor It's not critical for go live, but we'll sync records of things we order from the national database and would like the patrons to be able to place holds.
09:54 kf Viktor: I think what you would do is have an on order item
09:54 kf you can do that using acq
09:54 kf add items on order
09:54 drojf yay, kf to the rescue
09:54 Viktor Thanks kf
09:55 Viktor I did notice there seems to be a way to handle this with the acquisitions module.
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09:55 Viktor We'll just drop the records in without starting in acquisitions I think.
09:55 kf I think allowing holds on records without items... you are in for lots of trouble
09:55 kf and it's strictly not possible right now
09:56 Viktor Would it be possible to do something like "get all new records every night and create an order basket and add order items for them"?
09:57 kf you could create on order items outside of acq too
09:57 Viktor Great new kf
09:57 kf it's basically just an item that has a status that says it's not there yet so the patron can see
09:57 kf not much magic about that
09:57 kf :)
09:57 kf if you use notforloan -1 it will also show up in result lists
09:57 kf as on order
09:57 kf and it will show in the detail screen
09:57 kf that's all about it basically
09:58 Viktor Great - thanks!
09:58 kf and when the item is really there, you add the missing information to the item
09:58 kf if you created it in acq you can do it from there, if not in cataloguing
10:01 Viktor Will we have to script the creation of acq items?
10:02 Viktor We'll sync the records each night from an FTP-server and import.
10:02 Viktor Then I hope to quite quickly move to OAI-PMH and then in 2014 to Pubsubhubbub.
10:06 eythian hi
10:06 Viktor Hi eythian
10:07 kf Viktor: not sure
10:07 kf if you had something in your program that added a simple 952 tag to the records that should work
10:07 kf but i am not sure about the workflows
10:07 kf maybe better talk to magnuse about it
10:07 kf hi w<
10:08 kf hi eythian
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10:08 Viktor kf Thanks for the input. I will talk to Magnus about it. I just like to learn and become a more informed customer :)
10:11 drojf Viktor++ # koha provider's dream customer :)
10:11 drojf hi eythian
10:11 Viktor drojf :)
10:12 magnuse Viktor: we will have to create a custom script/cronjob to fetch the records and import them. adding a basic 952 tag for an item would be easy peasy. then that could be enhanced or replaced when the item is actually received. complicating factor: we might want to tie the fake items to branches, if patrons can only place holds on stuff that belong to their own library...
10:12 alex_a joined #koha
10:12 magnuse yup, Viktor is pretty much the dream customer incarnate :-)
10:12 Viktor magnuse :)
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11:13 gaetan_B kf: i'm creating an account to the person in charge of the kurdish translation
11:14 gaetan_B we'll need to give him admin rights on the kurdish project so that he can upload files ? or anyone can do that ?
11:15 gaetan_B it looks like i can give him these permissions myself
11:17 kf gaetan_B: hm i think i could, but i haven't talked with bgkriegel yet
11:17 kf i think he hasn't revoked my admin permissions, but I would like to check with him
11:17 kf gaetan_B: could you send an email to the koha-translate mailingl ist?
11:17 gaetan_B kf: he went through the account creation form but hasn't received an activation email, does it usually take time ?
11:17 kf hm
11:17 kf not sure
11:18 gaetan_B kf: if i go in the project on the permissions tab, i can give users permissions actually
11:18 kf it hsould work in theory
11:18 kf ah
11:18 kf maybe because you are the admin right now
11:18 Viktor joined #koha
11:18 gaetan_B maybe :)
11:18 kf what's his account name?
11:18 kf i think i can activate it,b ut if you get no email, you should send a mail to bgkriegel really
11:18 gaetan_B harem, and harem89 (he tried twice)
11:19 kf which one to keep?
11:19 gaetan_B maybe he mistyped his email addresse
11:19 gaetan_B the first one
11:19 wahanui the first one is probably the easiest, but you can't do anything very interesting with it
11:19 kf waiting for pootle...
11:20 gaetan_B :D
11:20 gaetan_B i know this feeling
11:21 kf should work now
11:38 bigbrovar_ joined #koha
11:39 gaetan_B kf: thanks :) he even has the required permissions !
11:39 gaetan_B i told him about irc, so he'll show up there sometime too
11:40 gaetan_B i'll send an email to Bernardo for this confirmation email that didn't come
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12:33 magnuse when i add a new column to a table, and all the columns in that table have backticks around the column names, should i remove the backticks?
12:33 magnuse kohastructure.sql, that is
12:33 jcamins magnuse: I generally do.
12:34 magnuse ok, that's good enough for me
12:34 jcamins Though I maintain that any file in a folder called "mysql" can be expected to have backticks and MySQL syntax.
12:34 magnuse maybe we should do one big patch to remove all of them from kohastructure.sql?
12:34 magnuse true
12:34 jcamins magnuse: the problem is that we use a lot of identifiers as field names.
12:34 jcamins Obviously I don't change backticks if there is any question about a field name.
12:35 Viktor joined #koha
12:36 magnuse as in clashes with reserved words in mysql?
12:36 jcamins Right.
12:36 jcamins I meant reserved words not identifiers.
12:37 magnuse hm, there are quite a lot of reserved words too:[…]served-words.html
12:39 jcamins magnuse: yup. So actually I guess what I usually do is remove backticks only when there are no generic field names.
12:40 magnuse yup, and there are none in the table i'm messing with
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12:49 tcohen morning
12:52 eythian afternoon
12:57 tcohen lizzard
12:57 * jcamins ducks under the desk, and hopes it's not a fire-breathing one.
12:57 magnuse huh, where is the "sponsored by" thing we can add to comit messages documented?
12:57 jcamins magnuse: I don't recall.
12:58 jcamins It's somewhere, though, I think.
12:58 jcamins Commit messages?
12:58 wahanui Please follow the guidelines at[…]i/Commit_messages when writing commit messages.
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12:58 tcohen it was an email
12:58 magnuse thanks jcamins
12:58 magnuse i was looking in the coding guidelines...
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13:26 magnuse huh, why on earth isn't this patch triggering updatedatabase?[…]ment.cgi?id=19398
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13:27 jcamins magnuse: you have to run updatedatabase manually.
13:28 eythian magnuse: presumably you're not changing
13:29 magnuse ah, so the staff interface only looks at
13:30 eythian compares it to the version in the syspref, aiui
13:30 eythian there's no other way to do it really, assuming you don't want to run on every request (and you don't.)
13:31 jcamins Exactly.
13:31 magnuse yeah, makes sense
13:31 magnuse it's just been too long since i did any proper hacking...
13:31 magnuse thanks jcamins and eythian
13:31 eythian np
13:34 magnuse Bug 10513 shoul dbe ready for signoff, then :-)
13:34 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10513 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Light up a warning/message when returning a chosen item type.
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15:15 mjk joined #koha
15:15 mjk hello there fellow koha users
15:15 mjk does anybody know anything about the live dvd release
15:24 slef mjk: only what's in the email
15:25 reiveune bye
15:25 reiveune left #koha
15:25 mjk ah
15:25 mjk i'm wondering if there's something wrong with the way it handles network stuff
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15:26 mjk i'm running a test server based on the livedvd and whenever it turns on, the rest of the network seems to start timing out on internet access
15:27 eythian joined #koha
15:47 mjk also i'm starting barcoding. am i better off using koha barcode generator or am i better off preprinting and then using those numbers when I create new records
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15:52 eythian mjk: Most of our libraries buy the pre-printed sheets. It's apparently a lot less hassle in general.
15:53 mjk that's expensive... we'd be buying avery 5160 clone labels and generating them ourselves
15:53 eythian that'd also work
15:54 mjk my group is a SF club and while we have 10l-15k books and DVDs, we also have a tiny budget and a clubhouse that needs repairs badly
15:55 kf mjk: you might want to check how expensive it really is
15:56 kf compared to buying the labels
15:56 kf i know it's not very expensive around here
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15:58 kf eythian++
15:58 mjk well, the first place i saw online is $500 for 10000
15:58 kf oh wow
15:59 kf zhow much for the same amount of labels?
16:00 mjk about $80
16:00 kf ok, that's a big difference then
16:01 mjk granted using mailing adress labels looks unprofessional, but we're not...
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16:02 mjk we mainly just want a way to gee who checked stuff out without going through handwritten stuff scrawled in a binder that half our members forget to use anyway
16:02 mjk *see
16:03 kf the problem with koha is that you can't preprint
16:03 kf so you have to catalog and then create batches and print your barcodes
16:03 eythian there's bound to be something out there that lets you preprint easily.
16:03 kf yeh
16:03 kf maybe some external tool
16:03 kf i think there was some discussion about that ages ago on the mailing list
16:04 eythian could probably write one in a few days
16:04 kf :)
16:04 kf I think i have seen soemthing on twitter where someone create patron cards using html and jquery
16:04 eythian ah, near
16:04 eythian *neat
16:05 mjk i think our club has a barcode generator somewhere.
16:05 kf let me try to find it
16:06 mjk it probably can't generate sequentials though
16:07 eythian awesome :)
16:09 kf about the barcodes
16:10 kf i think it was this:[…]helmet-korteille/
16:13 mjk if i read finnish that might be useful ;)
16:14 kf google translate? :)
16:14 kf i think the liks could be helpful
16:14 kf jquery-barcode
16:16 kf[…]braryCardBarcode/
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17:50 * magnuse pokes his head in quickly, then runs away, laughing like a maniac
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18:24 drojf is it just me or are there a lot of weird emails on the list today?
18:27 cait not only you
18:28 cait multilingual koha?
18:28 cait awesome idea :)
18:28 druthb :)
18:29 * druthb will be presenting on that at KohaCon in October.
18:30 drojf lol yeah that was surprising
18:30 cait hm but we should remove the txt file
18:30 cait that the mail was referring too
18:31 cait indeed I thought i had filed a bug for that
18:32 drojf i also don't understand why we would need koha phoning home to count installations
18:32 drojf i like to believe there are millions and i don't need a more exact number
18:32 cait i htink a button would be nice
18:32 cait or maybe a form
18:33 cait people are not so fond of the wiki it seems, but of course phoning home is not nice
18:34 drojf they should all register by sending a library card to rangi
18:36 cait :)
18:36 cait excellent idea
18:45 drojf paul's first email on the list is from november 1… 2010. it is hard to believe this is not trolling
18:47 cait a bit
18:50 drojf we should send him a printed and bound copy of the manual to arrive at november 1 this year for the jubilee :)
18:53 magnuse bug 6293
18:53 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6293 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, paul.poulain, NEW , Add a button to the intranet for registering with the Koha community
18:53 drojf heh
18:58 drojf hahaha i like "report to the mothership"
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19:03 cait hi magnuse :)
19:04 magnuse hiya
19:04 * magnuse is not really here
19:04 cait oh ok
19:04 cait we will ignore you in that case
19:04 magnuse good
19:05 drojf i'm glad that magnuse guy is not here
19:05 cait yeah me too
19:05 cait such a bully
19:05 drojf yep
19:06 magnuse dum di dum di dum di dum
19:07 druthb and mean, too!
19:07 magnuse la-la la-la la-la laa
19:07 druthb Is he has mean to German girls as he is to American girls, cait?
19:07 cait totally
19:08 druthb :-O
19:08 cait maybe even meaner... closer
19:08 druthb oooh.  Maybe it's a good thing he's *not* coming to KohaCon then; we'll be safer from his meanness!
19:09 druthb :P
19:11 cait yeah... totally... *sniff*
19:15 druthb It's a good thing he's not here to hear us talking about him, too!
19:31 rangi drojf: thanks for the reminder
19:37 drojf heh. morning rangi
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19:37 cait morning rangi
19:38 rangi heya drojf and cait
19:38 druthb Hi, rangi! :D
19:38 rangi hiya druthb :)
19:45 rangi @wunder nzwn
19:45 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 12.0°C (7:00 AM NZST on July 05, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
19:45 cait @wunder Konstanz
19:45 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 18.8°C (9:45 PM CEST on July 04, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.24 in 1024 hPa (Steady).
19:52 druthb @wunder 77063
19:52 huginn druthb: The current temperature in Briargrove Park, Houston, Texas is 33.7°C (2:51 PM CDT on July 04, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 33%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 29.91 in 1013 hPa (Rising).
19:56 drojf oh, 4th of july. isn't that the NSA founding day or something? :P
19:58 drojf so france got its own spying agency. what about us gemans? we need surveillance too
19:58 rangi canada is a horrible reminder of what could have happened without the declaration of independence!!
19:58 drojf lol
19:58 rangi drojf: hehe i think you guys had enough in your past :)
19:59 drojf i bet we have a lot right now and they just pretend to be idiots
19:59 rangi im sure
19:59 drojf that merkel smells very fishy
19:59 rangi the thing is
20:00 rangi echelon and fiveeyes is all spying on you anyway
20:00 drojf true
20:00 rangi and am sure the US govt shares at least some of the intel with the german govt
20:00 rangi there is a big SIGINT base in the netherlands
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20:01 rangi listening in on most of europe
20:01 rangi thats part of it
20:01 drojf yes. and the sad thing is, once this will be piublic, nothing is going to happen. some ranting, people on twitter going nuts for two days and thats it
20:01 rangi yep
20:01 drojf i mean, think of all the terrorism that got prevented ^^
20:01 rangi heh
20:01 rangi thats the thing
20:02 rangi their trump card
20:02 rangi 'we cant tell you all the things we stopped cos its secret'
20:02 rangi i actually think surveillance isnt bad, per se, but not mass surveillance, and not without a lot more oversight
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20:03 wizzyrea I am not sure there's enough oversight capacity to oversee something they are determined has to be secret
20:03 rangi yep
20:04 drojf we get drilled with the "unattended bag"-thing for quite some time now. it is very important to know that 1) there is a permanent threat 2) nothing bad is going to happen as long as police/secret service/whatever gets just a little more power again. and again
20:04 rangi yeah
20:04 wizzyrea thing is, you can't prevent bad things from happening
20:05 wizzyrea you can't prevent a meteor from falling out of the sky and crushing you
20:05 drojf OMG NOOOOOO
20:07 drojf funny thing is, we are told how evil east germany has been with all the spying. but compared to what is possible today that is nothing but a joke. but of course "we" are the good ones so it's alright
20:08 rangi hehe yeah
20:08 wizzyrea i wish I could express just how demoralised the whole thing makes me feel about modern life.
20:09 ibeardslee yeap
20:09 wizzyrea and failure to learn the lessons of history.
20:09 drojf yeah :/
20:09 ibeardslee take us back to the days when people had to kill the horse rider and break the wax seal on your letter to read your mail
20:09 ibeardslee .. assuming they could read in the first place
20:10 drojf heh
20:10 wizzyrea you can't fix crazy, sometimes you can't even detect crazy. No amount of surveillance is going to fix that.
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20:13 drojf i doubt that is the goal. i think there are people that would not mind somebody going nuts just so they can ask for more surveillance.
20:13 drojf saves them some effort to do it themselves…
20:14 * wizzyrea considers people who do "acts of terror" to be some variant of crazy.
20:15 wizzyrea and yes, that's a simplistic view - if you'd like I could go into all of the ways and caveats that I keep in my mind about the subject, but it would be boring for you
20:15 ibeardslee I used to say that if George Bush had ordered the boming of the world's worst terrorist, would he be considered a suicide bomber?
20:15 * wizzyrea thinks he falls under the heading "crazy
20:15 ibeardslee throw an extra 'b' in there if you want
20:16 wizzyrea ordering drone strikes? also crazy.
20:20 drojf the only real terrorism we had in germany lately were neonazis killing immigrants. and there are a lot of links to the german secret service and police being involved and a lot of files vanished or got "accidentally" shredded.
20:20 wizzyrea see also: crazy.
20:21 wizzyrea I'm sure they had "rational" reasons for thinking what they did. I'm sure that they were doing good work in their own opinion.
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20:26 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
20:26 mtompset Has anyone here played with encryption libraries?
20:27 drojf hi mtompset
20:27 mtompset Greetings, drojf.
20:27 drojf what kind of encryption of what data?
20:27 mtompset public/private key encryption.
20:28 mtompset the data would be user attributes.
20:28 drojf i started to work on email encryption in koha some time ago[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8897
20:28 huginn Bug 8897: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mirko, In Discussion , Optional GnuPG encryption of outgoing emails
20:28 mtompset I've tinkered with Crypt::OpenSSL::RSA... and got private_encrypt, public_decrypt working, but I can't get the other direction working. public_encrypt and private_decrypt.
20:30 drojf i use Crypt::GPG apparently
20:30 drojf (have not worked on it in a while)
20:32 mtompset Because there needs to be a way in my SAML patch for the external authentication source to tell Koha, "Yes, I confirm so and so is authenticated, and I am who I say I am."
20:32 mtompset I've got the rsa signed part working.
20:32 mtompset but the data of the user attributes needs to be encrypted in a way that only Koha should be able to decrypt.
20:33 mtompset hence the public_encrypt, and the private decrypt.
20:33 mtompset but that direction of the library for Crypt::OpenSSL::RSA seems busted.
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20:37 drojf isn't that just encrypt and decrypt?
20:38 drojf looking at the cpan page it looks to me like that at least
20:39 mtompset There is encrypt, decrypt, private_decrypt, and public_decrypt.
20:40 mtompset decrypt on a private key doesn't work.
20:40 drojf ah i see
20:41 mtompset So though the authentication point can public encrypt with koha's public key, koha can't decrypt it with its own private key. A busted library. :(
20:42 mtompset I wouldn't be having this problem if Koha was in PHP. ;)
20:42 drojf ugh :D
20:42 wizzyrea you'd be having other problems.
20:42 mtompset because the PHP libraries work. ;)
20:42 drojf you would have… what wizzyrea says
20:42 mtompset wizzyrea: I totally agree.
20:43 mtompset I really hate shell calls, but perhaps I could do that.
20:43 mtompset After all, the public and private keys are generated with openssl.
20:46 drojf i think Crypt::GPG does the things you need if i understand you correctly. it requires a running instance of gpg on the server though which is not too great.
20:46 mtompset Perhaps, but can PHP do GPG too?
20:47 mtompset I need PHP to encrypt and Perl to decrypt.
20:47 * mtompset will be away from keyboard for a bit.
20:47 drojf no idea, but i guess there is something for php too
20:48 drojf mtompset:
20:50 * drojf tries to go to ed
20:50 drojf lol
20:50 drojf bed
20:50 drojf good night #koha
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23:51 dcook rangi: Sweet wall of library cards ;)
23:57 jcamins mtompset: I would be very surprised if there were no working RSA encryption/decryption for Perl. Did you look at other libraries?
23:57 jcamins (that's actually all the advice I had on the subject, but I wanted to point out it is probable that there is a way to do what you need already)

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