IRC log for #koha, 2012-07-18

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:04 nengard joined #koha
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00:47 libsysguy what is the reason for the chanserv message on signin?
00:47 jcamins_away What message?
00:47 wahanui hmmm... message is a warning not an error.
00:48 libsysguy i get a PM from chanserv every time i sign in
00:48 libsysguy welcoming me to the koha board
00:49 jcamins_away Ah. No idea.
00:49 libsysguy i just saw rangi get +o-ed by the same name
00:49 libsysguy so i was just curious
01:02 jcamins_away This channel is managed by chanserv.
01:02 jcamins_away That keeps the channel from popping out of existence if everyone disconnects.
01:02 jcamins_away I think.
01:02 Guest3040 libsysguy: ChanServ is part of OFTC's IRC Services (common on most IRC networks). It can be charged with a number of things, including the granting of channel operator status and the welcome message you received upon joining the channel. Someone with the proper credentials configured ChanServ to send that message, and to op rangi, etc.
01:02 Guest3040 oh dear.
01:02 Guest3040 i seem to have lost my nick.
01:03 jeff that's NickServ's fault. ;-)
01:03 libsysguy haha yeah i also get nickserv messages jeff
01:04 libsysguy you have successfully authenticated :p
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03:24 mtompset joined #koha
03:24 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
03:25 mtompset Greetings, dcook.
03:25 Amit_Gupta joined #koha
03:27 dcook Hi ya mtompset :)
03:28 dcook I'm just about to run off for lunch, but I hope your auth readings went well the other day
03:28 mtompset Still reading and reading.
03:33 mtompset joined #koha
03:34 mtompset 3.4.8? I thought there was agreement to axe the 3.4?
03:39 brylie joined #koha
03:39 mtompset I just checked environment variables on our 3.6.3 system which is behind a proxy in firefox and IE, and my development VM in firefox and IE, and found that REMOTE_USER is not defined.
03:40 mtompset Is REMOTE_USER ever defined, and how?
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03:46 chris_n off-topic a bit, but does anyone know of issues when using perl Socket in scripts run by apache?
03:51 mtompset Sorry... no idea.
03:53 chris_n it seems that a call to Socket via cgi consumes 99.9% of the quad-core cpu as well as 99.9% of available memory :-P
03:53 chris_n not nice....
03:54 mtompset That makes no sense.
03:55 mtompset What are you running Socket for?
03:56 chris_n I've a script which acts as a client to connect to a port on a building automation system
03:56 chris_n I'm working on a web interface for the script
03:56 mtompset Make sure to sanitize your inputs. ;)
03:57 chris_n right ;-)
03:57 mtompset
03:57 * chris_n briefly imagines librarians controling the HVAC systems in their libraries via koha
03:58 chris_n lol
03:58 mtompset Interesting thought, but a tad out of scope for Koha, don't you think? :)
04:00 chris_n probably for all but the most exotic control freaks
04:07 mtompset Shhhh! Their listening. ;)
04:08 mtompset Ah, I think I found the answer to my question about REMOTE_USER.
04:09 mtompset
04:09 mtompset Leads me to believe that REMOTE_USER is only defined if there was .htaccess authentication on the directory.
04:18 mtompset Koha doesn't use .htaccess authentication at all anymore, does it?!
04:54 cait joined #koha
04:56 cait hi #koha
04:59 mtompset Greetings, cait.
04:59 mtompset I'm still tinkering with the labyrinth of doom, cait.
04:59 mtompset Can I blame you? ;)
05:00 cait why me? :)
05:00 mtompset Wasn't it you and rangi that sent me in? :P
05:03 mtompset Oh wait... this is the maze of doom that jcamins suggested I enter... never mind. This is Auth, not Search.
05:04 dcook I'm looking at Search now :P
05:04 dcook Mind you, it's a local customization, so I can't get too grumpy..
05:11 Oak joined #koha
05:12 * Oak waves
05:18 mtompset Greetings, Oak.
05:19 mtompset Long time, no chat. How are things over there?
05:20 Oak hello mtompset :)
05:20 Oak things are okay here. i hope you are good.
05:21 mtompset As good as can be, I suppose.
05:21 druthb joined #koha
05:22 dcook hi Oak :)
05:22 * dcook celebrates finding the solution to his problem.
05:23 mtompset Congratulations, dcook.
05:23 dcook Thanks :)
05:23 mtompset It would be better if wasn't a localized problem, and then you could help the rest of us too. ;)
05:23 dcook We have two very similar functions in two separate modules, and we weren't populating a variable in one of them, which caused a total (but very unnoticeable) failure
05:23 dcook Hehe
05:23 dcook True!
05:24 dcook It might be one I spin back to the community, but it would require some adjustments
05:25 dcook Essentially, it puts a link in the search results. If there is just one link in the bib record, it replicates that. If there are multiple, it takes you into the record (and just acts like a pointer).
05:26 dcook On top of that, we've added an onclick event to prompt users to log in, if the link is for a database requiring authentication
05:26 dcook It looks like the idea is to use a single sign-on, although I don't think it's gotten that far yet..
05:27 dcook Hmm, yeah...just a note that further authentication is needed.
05:27 * dcook shrugs
05:28 dcook Probably not that useful
05:28 mtompset And that is the maze I'm looking at right now, dcook... SSO, authentication, SAML 2.0
05:32 dcook Mmm, hence that earlier question about REMOTE_USER
05:33 dcook I would love to know the answer to the whole auth situation
05:33 dcook Mind you, I'm sure everyone would :p
05:34 dcook What are you trying to do?
05:43 drojf joined #koha
05:43 mtompset first, understand what is there.
05:43 mtompset second, figure out how to either:
05:43 mtompset 1) rewrite the mess (which has been suggested to me several times)
05:43 mtompset or
05:43 mtompset 2) hack in SAML 2.0 authentication.
05:44 mtompset I'm at checkauth in C4::Auth...
05:45 mtompset I've thought that we don't use .htaccess authentication, and the first if might not be necessary any more.
05:45 mtompset I'm working at understanding CGI::Session.
05:45 mtompset Slowly but surely, I'll understand this code.
05:46 mtompset once understood, then I'll be in a position to understand what to do with respect to SAML 2.0 authentication.
05:50 dcook Power to you!
05:50 dcook The customization I just mentioned..
05:51 dcook We also set a system preference based on the base URL of the link in the record, so when you click the link for a specific website, you can get a pop-up telling you a username and password that you've stored in your syspref
05:51 dcook Of course, this only works for storing 1 u/n and p/w, but it looks like how we're getting around actual remote authentication
05:51 dcook Not a terrible solution for small special libraries
05:51 * mtompset cringes, "Functional, but ugly if you want to scale."
05:52 dcook No kidding, eh?
05:52 dcook That's why you're working on Auth ;)
05:53 mtompset 'eh?' -- Why did you say 'eh?'?
05:54 mtompset Seems like others are as well, and I suspect they'll succeed before I do, but at least I'll understand the mess.
05:55 dcook Understanding is always good :)
05:55 mtompset Understanding is necessary to make better changes.
05:55 dcook Very true
05:55 wahanui I know. That's why I said it.
05:55 dcook That's my goal :)
05:55 dcook As for "eh", I'm Canadian :p
05:56 dcook I'm pretty sure other people in the world say it as well, but it's a (semi-)stereotypical expression that we say from time to time.
05:57 dcook It doesn't really mean anything. And it's not a question. The ? mark just denotes rising intonation when we're speaking
05:58 mtompset Okay, you weren't saying as a Canadian jab... -- Greetings, fellow Canadian. :)
05:58 dcook :o
05:59 mtompset Which province?
05:59 mtompset (or territory)
05:59 dcook Good question
05:59 dcook Born and raised in Saskatchewan, but most recently of Vancouver, BC
05:59 dcook (as if it were its own province :P)
05:59 dcook You?
05:59 wahanui You are welcome, I also tried the other - moving js out of translated paths
05:59 stuartyeates joined #koha
05:59 mtompset Ontario.
06:00 mtompset I studied out in Langley, BC. But somehow everyone does seem to equate Vancouver as B.C.
06:00 dcook It's hard not to sometimes.
06:00 dcook Where in Ontario are you from?
06:01 dcook I've bounced all over Sk, myself
06:01 mtompset Doesn't everyone equate Toronto with Ontario? ;)
06:01 dcook I was totally going to say Toronto, but I thought better of it :p
06:02 dcook You're in the Philippines now though, right? What takes you there?
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06:06 mtompset Well, Greater-Toronto-Area. No sense saying the Town's name.
06:06 mtompset My organization seconded me to SIL Asia Area whose headquarters are here.
06:07 laurence joined #koha
06:07 dcook Fair enough
06:07 mtompset I'm in the Philippines until November.
06:07 dcook That's rather exciting
06:08 dcook I originally came to Australia on a 6 month work term, but now it looks like I'll be working with Koha here for at least the next few years
06:10 mtompset Well, I had worked here before in my previous assignment. I met my wife here. So, it's like my second home now. :)
06:10 dcook Sounds like a classic story
06:10 dcook I met my partner a few months ago, and while I have to go back to Canada for a few months at the end of the year, Australia is certainly my second home as well now
06:14 Amit_Gupta heya dcook
06:14 mveron joined #koha
06:15 mveron Good morning #koha
06:16 laurence joined #koha
06:16 mtompset Greetings, Amit_Gupta and mveron.
06:17 mveron Hi mtompset
06:17 dcook hey Amit_Gupta
06:17 wahanui Amit_Gupta is from Nucsoft Osslabs
06:17 dcook Allo mveron
06:17 mveron Hi dcook
06:19 mveron Just submitted patch for bug 7628 - Looking for someone to sign off :-)
06:19 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7628 normal, P3, ---, veron, Needs Signoff , Required format is not enforced for Patron Categories
06:20 * dcook will take a look
06:20 mveron Thanks, dcook.
06:22 dcook No worries. While I look at that, might you take a look at one of mine as well?
06:23 dcook It's pretty simple, but I think Bug 8448 would be a good one to get out
06:23 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8448 major, P2, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , Holds Awaiting Pickup : Cancelling a hold on a waiting item with multiple holds displays a blank screen instead of a warning prompt
06:24 mveron dcook: OK, will do...
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06:24 dcook I'm just adding a test scenario comment
06:25 dcook I haven't signed off before, so it might take me a bit, but I'm looking forward to it!
06:25 * dcook stops being a newb now
06:25 dcook for now*
06:25 alex_a joined #koha
06:27 alex_a bonjour
06:27 dcook salut, alex_a
06:27 Amit_Gupta heya alex_a
06:45 julian_m joined #koha
06:45 julian_m hello
06:45 wahanui what's up, julian_m
06:47 reiveune joined #koha
06:47 reiveune hello
06:47 wahanui hi, reiveune
06:49 clrh jcamins_away: I saw you message, I think you are talking about "rfc search engine" I will check it
06:59 logbot joined #koha
06:59 Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.8.2, 3.6.6 and 3.4.8 Now Available | Koha Community Website - | General IRC meeting, 18 July 2012 at 10:00 UTC+0
07:05 gaetan_B joined #koha
07:05 gaetan_B hello :)
07:05 dcook mverson, it looks good, but git is telling me that you have some trailing whitespaces
07:05 dcook mveron *
07:05 dcook hey gaetan_B
07:05 wahanui gaetan_B is working at Biblibre and did the nice new start page together with asaurat or a fan of icons
07:06 paul_p joined #koha
07:06 mveron dcook: The white spaces were corrected automatically by git bz, as far as I know. The message is OK.
07:06 dcook Sounds good to me.
07:07 eythian joined #koha
07:08 mveron dcook: Still testing on your bug. Will take a moment.
07:09 asaurat joined #koha
07:11 Amit_Gupta heya paul_p
07:11 dcook No worries, mveron
07:11 dcook It looks like I screwed up my sign off...
07:22 dcook There we go, mveron. It's the first patch that I've signed off, so I've left a bit of a mess in trying to do it right. Sorry for all the comments and obsolete attachments.
07:25 mveron dcook: Great, thanks a lot! - You are faster then I was with my first SO. Only thing to do now is to switch status from Needs Sign-off to Signed off.
07:26 dcook I believe that I have :)
07:28 paul_p good morning #koha
07:29 dcook morning, paul_p
07:32 paul_p evening dcook
07:41 dcook Time for me to call it a night! As much as I would like to work on Koha all night, I had best be home to pack up my flat!
07:41 dcook Au revoir
08:06 jenkins_koha Starting build #98 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:14 cait-m__ joined #koha
08:14 cait-m__ hi all
08:16 cait-m__ joined #koha
08:18 slef hi cait-m__
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08:36 * mtompset grumbles, "It is so much easier to read and fix other people's code. Why can't I get this simple object inheritance working?!"
08:37 mtompset Greetings, cait-m__
08:37 mtompset Greetings, julian_m
08:38 julian_m hello mtompset
08:40 mtompset have you written anything that does class inheritance in perl, julian_m?
08:40 paul_p joined #koha
08:41 rangi ISA
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08:41 mtompset I did somthing like that.
08:42 mtompset our @ISA = qw(MyAuth);
08:42 reiveune joined #koha
08:42 mtompset where the file that has this is MyAuth/ and is being referred to.
08:43 mtompset I don't want to write a new() for Auth1, Auth2, etc.
08:43 rangi hmm not quiet
08:43 rangi quite even
08:44 mtompset Suggestions, rangi?
08:44 rangi use base qw(MyAuth)l
08:45 rangi typo l = ;
08:45 mtompset okay... I'll try that.
08:45 rangi if you are rewritting auth, id start in Koha
08:45 rangi Koha::Auth
08:46 rangi Koha::Auth::Native
08:46 rangi Koha::Auth::Shibboleth
08:46 rangi etc
08:46 mtompset I'm playing with classes first, since I'm weak in them.
08:46 rangi youve read the perl oop pages eh?
08:46 mtompset Yes, but they sometimes leave more questions than help.
08:47 rangi
08:48 mtompset That still doesn't work.
08:48 mtompset Tell's me I haven't defined new.
08:49 mtompset Let's see... where's a pastebin when you want one.
08:49 mtompset paste?
08:49 wahanui paste is found at
08:50 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted " attempt" (16 lines) at
08:51 rangi you dont want that @ISA if you are using base
08:51 mtompset Ah.
08:51 mtompset okay... cutting and checking.
08:51 rangi and without seeing MyAuth i cant tell if that will work
08:51 mtompset Still says it can't find new.
08:52 mtompset Okay...
08:52 mtompset next paste...
08:52 rangi take a look in C4/
08:52 rangi an C4/Cache/
08:52 eythian I'm wondering if we're going to do this OO thing properly, we should decide on a framework for it. Perl
08:52 eythian ...
08:52 eythian Perl
08:52 eythian gah
08:52 eythian Perl's default OO is a bit funky.
08:52 rangi i use Class::Accessor
08:53 mtompset Yes, but I should know it.
08:53 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted " "parent"" (41 lines) at
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08:58 hemant joined #koha
08:59 hemant hi
08:59 wahanui hola, hemant
08:59 hemant i m a new user of koha can u help me
09:00 hemant u there?
09:00 wahanui hmmm... there is no spoon. or something like the second with holes like the first... or a patch from jared soemwhere removing some of the nozebra code
09:00 hemant i want add books
09:00 hemant then how?
09:01 hemant ??
09:02 rangi manual?
09:02 wahanui well, manual is at
09:02 rangi what version of koha hemant ?
09:04 hemant
09:06 hemant hi
09:07 hemant u there?
09:07 wahanui it has been said that there is no spoon. or something like the second with holes like the first... or a patch from jared soemwhere removing some of the nozebra code
09:08 rangi
09:08 wahanui i think is the whole manual
09:08 hemant thx
09:09 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #98: SUCCESS in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_3.8.x/98/
09:09 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Fix for Bug 6855 - List bullet showing in wrong place on error message
09:09 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Bug 8398 - Missing image file in staff global css
09:09 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8386: Error in duplicate detection message for authorities
09:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6855 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , bullet point showing in wrong place on error message
09:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8398 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , Missing image file in staff global css
09:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8386 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Error in duplicate detection message for authorities
09:13 Amit_Gupta heya hemant
09:13 hemant yes amit
09:13 hemant from india amit?
09:13 Amit_Gupta yes
09:13 hemant from where?
09:14 Amit_Gupta Bangalore and you
09:14 Amit_Gupta ?
09:14 hemant Delhi
09:14 Amit_Gupta which library
09:14 mtompset_ joined #koha
09:15 hemant i Do"t know under stand ing this systems
09:15 hemant can u help me?
09:16 hemant amit
09:16 Amit_Gupta r u from  which library
09:17 hemant centerville
09:21 * eythian is not convinced that's correct.
09:30 * mtompset waves bye for now.
09:36 davidnind joined #koha
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09:41 mtompset @wunder EDI
09:41 huginn mtompset: The current temperature in Mid Kinleith, Currie, United Kingdom is 11.7°C (10:39 AM BST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 98%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa (Steady).
09:42 mtompset Is the meeting over or elsewhere?
09:44 Amit_Gupta @wunder Bangalore
09:44 huginn Amit_Gupta: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 23.0°C (11:30 AM IST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 21.0°C.
09:44 Amit_Gupta @wunder New Delhi
09:44 huginn Amit_Gupta: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 40.0°C (2:30 PM IST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 33%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Falling).
09:45 Amit_Gupta @wunder Dehradun
09:45 huginn Amit_Gupta: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 32.0°C (11:30 AM IST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.41 in 996 hPa.
09:45 drojf mtompset: Current UTC (or GMT/Zulu)-time used: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012, 09:42:21. so i guess it's in 20 minutes
09:45 drojf thanks for reminding me :D
09:46 mtompset Can I get my karma back? :P
09:46 drojf mtompset++ # best meeting reminder ever
09:46 mtompset is there a meeting agenda somewhere?
09:47 drojf[…]ing,_18_July_2012
09:47 mtompset ++drojf
09:47 mtompset thanks.
09:51 Amit_Gupta hi
09:51 wahanui hi, Amit_Gupta
09:52 stuartyeates left #koha
09:53 eythian lunchtime is a terrible time for a meeting
09:54 drojf it's always lunchtime somewhere
09:54 cjh heh
09:57 mtompset ++drojf++ work? ;)
09:59 mtompset Yes, it's always lunchtime somewhere. And if we move fast enough, we could have lunch forever! ;)
10:00 thd However, 6 AM is a fine time for a meeting.
10:00 Amit_Gupta 3:30 pm here in india
10:01 jwagner joined #koha
10:01 Brooke joined #koha
10:01 Amit_Gupta heya jwagner
10:01 Brooke o/
10:01 Amit_Gupta heya brooke
10:01 drojf hi Brooke
10:01 jwagner Good morning or whatever time of day it is...
10:01 oleonard joined #koha
10:02 Brooke #startmeeting
10:02 wahanui if there is a meeting then Brooke must want me
10:02 huginn Meeting started Wed Jul 18 10:00:30 2012 UTC.  The chair is Brooke. Information about MeetBot at
10:02 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
10:02 slef mmm lunch... not for 2h and I've no food with me :/
10:02 Brooke #introductions
10:02 Topic for #koha is now introductions
10:02 slef Brooke: not #topic?
10:02 Brooke #topic introductions
10:02 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
10:02 Topic for #koha is now introductions
10:02 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
10:02 jwagner #info Jane Wagner LibLime/PTFS
10:02 Brooke slef: half the time I get to do both ;)
10:03 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Language centre @ HU Berlin, Germany
10:03 slef #info MJ Ray,, mobile in England :/
10:03 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogne, New York City
10:03 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
10:03 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett, SIL Asia Area, based in Philippines
10:03 dpavlin #info Dobrica Pavlinusic, Croatia
10:04 eythian #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT
10:04 paul_p #info paul_p Marseille, BibLibre, France, current Koha RM
10:04 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:04 paul_p good (early) morning USA !
10:04 thd s/Agogne/Agogme/
10:04 slef (standing in line at the bank)
10:06 Amit_Gupta #info Amit gupta Nucsoft
10:06 Brooke #topic Announcements
10:06 Topic for #koha is now Announcements
10:07 thd ALA would like to announce that MARC was murdered at their executive meeting.
10:07 oleonard Agenda:[…]_July_2012#Agenda
10:07 thd MARC's ghost is recovering ;0
10:08 Brooke #link[…]ing,_18_July_2012
10:08 Brooke speaking of that sort of thing...
10:08 Brooke #topic Roadmap for 3.4
10:08 Topic for #koha is now Roadmap for 3.4
10:08 Brooke Are we killing this?
10:09 mtompset I thought that was the consensus from what I read of last meetings logs.
10:09 slef who's rm? polled the list?
10:09 oleonard Did we even have a quorum last time?
10:09 Brooke don't believe it has one
10:09 Brooke #help someone poll the list about end of life for 3.4
10:10 thd Brooke, it is never necessary to formally kill a branch.  Branches like standards die their own quiet death eventually.
10:10 eythian I kinda thought that 3.4 would have dies when 3.8 came out.
10:10 Brooke we don't have a formal quorum Owen, so it's a bit hard to count if we've got one.
10:10 slef (sorry, slow web here)
10:10 eythian thd: I think it's good too kill them, just to announce that people should be moving now.
10:11 slef if anyone wants to fund 3.4 rm nd someone will workl on it, let them, else call it orphaned?
10:11 paul_p I think Koha 3.4 is de-facto orphaned
10:11 oleonard It should at least be known that there will be no more releases unless someone takes charge of it
10:11 Brooke I'm pretty sure someone sent that out to listserv months back, lemme see if I can dig it up
10:11 thd Exactly, orphans are merely orphaned.  There is no need to try to kill them.
10:11 eythian I'm of the opinion it'd be best to declare an end-of-life for things like that.
10:12 slef paul_p: make it official, encourage more upgrades
10:12 eythian thd: there is, or people don't know they're orphaned
10:12 paul_p slef agreed
10:12 thd We should announce an orphan but not a killing.
10:12 thd Killing is unnecessary.
10:13 thd ... and mean.
10:13 oleonard If no one has done it by then I'll send a message to the list in 3hrs. We can have the discussion there
10:13 eythian Too many people are still using old versions as it is.
10:14 Brooke think this is exhausted
10:14 slef see
10:14 Brooke #topic Roadmap to 3.6
10:14 Topic for #koha is now Roadmap to 3.6
10:14 slef #link for debian Orphan and RFA examples
10:14 thd Announce that the orphans are exhausted.
10:15 paul_p slef = page not found :\
10:15 oleonard A few beatings usually eke out a little more effort from exhausted orphans
10:15 thd :)
10:15 Brooke #info there will be no more porridge for 3.4
10:16 Brooke anyone have anything on 3.6
10:16 slef paul_p: drat.
10:16 eythian There's now a debian repo tracking 3.4
10:16 eythian err
10:16 eythian 3.6
10:16 paul_p eythian = debian repo ? which url ?
10:16 Brooke Sweet As, bro. :)
10:16 slef #link for debian Orphan and RFA examples
10:17 eythian[…]on_Debian_Squeeze <-- the usual place
10:17 eythian Which means we have packages for oldstable (3.6) squeeze (3.8) and squeeze-dev (master)
10:18 eythian I know those names don't make sense.
10:18 slef docs > sense
10:19 Brooke any other noteworthy 3.6 news?
10:19 mtompset There was a string freeze announced recently for 3.6.7 coming out shortly.
10:20 paul_p dashboard says 2012-07-15 - String freeze for 3.6.7
10:20 Brooke #info There's a Debian repo tracking
10:20 paul_p and 2012-07-22 - Release date for 3.6.7
10:20 Brooke #info and 2012-07-22 - Release date for 3.6.7
10:21 Brooke #info 2012-07-15 - String freeze for 3.6.7
10:21 Brooke #info[…]on_Debian_Squeeze for the repo link
10:21 Brooke #link[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
10:22 Brooke sorry, want to get all of that in the minutes, so I've to be a bit spammy :)
10:22 julian_m joined #koha
10:22 paul_p Brooke = I think it's better for readers of minutes to have it, so it's not spammy imo
10:22 joann joined #koha
10:23 Brooke anything else on 3.6 or are we movin' on?
10:23 paul_p move on !
10:23 mtompset Only jcamins would have more.
10:23 Brooke crawlin' out of the stone age then...
10:24 Brooke #topic Roadmap for 3.8
10:24 Topic for #koha is now Roadmap for 3.8
10:25 davidnind 2012-07-15 - String freeze for 3.8.3
10:26 davidnind 2012-07-22 - Release date for 3.8.3
10:26 slef can someone repaste that with #info please?
10:26 Brooke #info 2012-07-15 - String freeze for 3.8.3
10:26 Brooke you're someone too slef :P
10:26 Brooke #info 2012-07-22 - Release date for 3.8.3
10:27 slef yeah bopy paste while walking from post office to bakery not good
10:27 drojf lol
10:27 slef even typing not good
10:27 slef and I've one of the kohacon signs tied to my back ;)
10:28 JanetGreig joined #koha
10:28 Brooke rangi have anything to add?
10:29 paul_p rangi sleeping it seems ;-)
10:29 Brooke lies, he never sleeps, and I've reams of IRC logs to show it
10:29 Brooke he, like Galen, is prolly a bot...
10:29 slef left bakery - sorry if you wanted anything
10:29 mtompset I don't believe he did an intro, so probably not likely to add anything. :)
10:30 thd mtompset++
10:31 Brooke #topic Roadmap for 3.10
10:31 Topic for #koha is now Roadmap for 3.10
10:31 * slef pokes you
10:31 Brooke take it away paul
10:31 paul_p yep, i'm here -and not a bot- ;-)
10:31 mtompset thank you, thd.
10:31 * oleonard thanks paul_p for being here
10:31 * mtompset scowls at slef. ;)
10:31 paul_p You've seen in my previous monthly RM newsletter that a very important patch has been pushed, to start the move to solr.
10:32 paul_p it causes jenkins to be unstable atm, but that's a not a "big" unstability, and there are some patches underway to fix it.
10:32 slef move to, or move to add support for?
10:32 oleonard the latter
10:32 slef phew
10:32 paul_p for now, my main concern is bug 8251 that we haven't killed yet, and is a big problem for all libraries using fines in days
10:32 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8251 critical, P1 - high, ---, koha, Passed QA , Patrons are systematically debarred at checkin
10:33 Brooke which would be like heaps of libraries :(
10:33 paul_p this bug is mostly caused by the switch to hourly loan, and changes in date comparisons.
10:34 paul_p for now, 4 patches have been submitted to fix the problem, but it still not fixed. I plan to work this afternoon on this one.
10:34 paul_p (and it's a 3.8 problem, because 3.8 has the bug !)
10:34 slef paul_p++ and should that be a blocker for 3.10?
10:35 paul_p I've started a thread on koha-devel about release process, a lot of discussion here, I think i'll continue the discussion soon.
10:35 Brooke #help help Paul with bug 8251 - libraries that record fines in days really need you!
10:35 * mtompset notes that is a reason why we're only upgrading to 3.6.7 next.
10:35 paul_p slef = I strongly hope it will be before 3.10 !!!
10:36 paul_p The pile of ENH waiting for a signoff is very large, and I wouldn't like to see all of them being signed-off & passing QA & pushed too close from the release.
10:37 Brooke paul I have stuff for this under its proper topic. Don't let me forget :)
10:37 paul_p that's the problem the thread still don't address
10:38 paul_p saying 2 months before the release "I won't push any ENH" mean that the freeze will occur in august, 22, which is "tomorrow"
10:38 paul_p I don't want to do that.
10:38 paul_p OTOH, ppl seem not to be happy with the idea of saying .0 is a announced as beta
10:38 paul_p is there a 3rd option ? which one ?
10:38 paul_p that's my biggest point for 3.10 for now.
10:39 Brooke #info problem with release cycle
10:40 paul_p another one = I had not a lot of feedback on my POC for thread "[…]oha_Namespace_RFC, moving ahead"
10:40 mtompset So when is 3.10 tentatively coming out?
10:40 paul_p mtompset = that's my personal debate atm !
10:41 paul_p either keep oct 22, say there will be a 2 months freeze for large enh, meaning everything must be in before aug, 22
10:41 paul_p or keep oct 22 as .0 release, but clearly announce it will be a beta
10:41 paul_p or a 3rd option I don't see atm
10:42 paul_p (4th option = change nothing, but I think it's not a good option !)
10:42 slef paul_p: why 2mo freeze? could we shorten if lots pledge to test+fix a lot?
10:42 slef paul_p: and can we be braver at reverting buggy enh?
10:42 paul_p slef = it has been proven for 3.4 and 3.8 that it does not work well
10:43 mtompset pledges don't mean anything. Don't count the chickens before they hatch.
10:43 eythian_ joined #koha
10:43 paul_p slef = it's hard to revert ENH, because they usually have DB updates
10:43 Brooke we could do a 9 or 12 month release cycle #justsayin
10:43 rangi worked for 3.6 though
10:43 rangi longer cycle just shifts the problem
10:43 paul_p hey, rangi is not sleeping ;-)
10:43 paul_p I agree it just shifts the problem.
10:44 slef paul_p: leave db update hope to reintro in x.1 or x.2, but revert code?
10:44 mtompset that isn't always possible, slef.
10:44 thd slef++
10:44 paul_p slef ... maybe ... i'll think a little bit more of this option... not sure
10:44 rangi it is more often than not
10:44 slef mtompset: no, not always
10:44 slef mtompset: but 90% I suspect
10:44 thd mtompset: When is it not possible to revert code?
10:44 paul_p agreed with slef
10:44 Brooke shifting the problems to the next release just shifts the problem.
10:45 davidnind First option seems sensible to meet six month release cycle, and provide a stable release..
10:45 slef mtompset: this is release engineering not utopia
10:45 mtompset timestamp vs. date (db change)
10:45 slef thd: when someone built on it
10:45 rangi ppl running from dev .. not from releases will be the only ones affected by db updates anyway
10:46 thd slef: We need more independence between features to avoid building on untested code.
10:46 nengard joined #koha
10:47 rangi 3.6.0 had one month feature freeze
10:47 davidnind Better to have fewer enhancements and a stable release, rather than a buggy release (for reputation as a great product, if nothing else)
10:47 rangi davidnind++
10:47 Brooke I agree david
10:47 thd davidmind++
10:47 mtompset Quite true.
10:47 Brooke also, Librarians are patient people. I can't say this enough
10:47 rangi lol
10:47 rangi they are not
10:48 rangi they are like every other client
10:48 Brooke perhaps some of the enhancements should be chunked smaller than they are
10:48 oleonard davidnind++
10:48 slef anyway, more list discussion?
10:48 rangi ive had huge media megacorps more patient than tiny libraries
10:49 thd However, if enhancements run independently of other code for a period of time, then it would be easy to exclude them if they are discovered to actually be buggy even after passing QA.
10:49 paul_p other option/idea = branch 3.10 earlier (in august), to let enhancements being pushed in master, while stabilizing the 3.10 . atm, during freeze, ENH continues to be submitted, but are not pushed anymore, which tend to have ENH pushed later (not sure i'm very clear ...)
10:49 rangi you'd have to run that by the RM for 3.12 .. since once 3.10 is branched, master is hers/his
10:49 slef sorry all, I must get indsooers... pls postpone kohacon12 for me? bbi10
10:50 paul_p rangi = right. I'll rise the idea on the mailing list
10:50 rangi you could always push them to experimental or something, after the feature freeze
10:51 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services
10:51 mtompset Do things ever come out of experimental?
10:52 rangi i think given the currently instability of master
10:52 rangi freezing sooner and bugfixing is the best plan
10:52 eythian_ Branch an -rc?
10:52 oleonard It doesn't make sense to seek to push more enhancements just for the sake of making the release "more different"
10:53 thd oleonard++
10:53 mtompset I agree, oleonard
10:53 dpavlin Q: would things like Bug 8418 would go in while in bugfix freeze?
10:53 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8418 critical, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Koha::Calendar is_holiday ignores all user data
10:53 rangi dpavlin: we are talkign feature freeze
10:53 paul_p dpavlin = "critical" means it's not an ENH
10:53 dpavlin ack
10:53 rangi there is never a bugfix freeze
10:54 rangi only feature and string
10:54 rangi and string is soft
10:54 rangi critical bug fixes that change strings usually get pushed anyway
10:54 thd Making the release "more different" is only what should be done for releases which are not based on a calendar schedule.  We are doing calendar schedule releases.
10:55 Brooke thd that's the problem
10:55 jcamins But if the fix can be done without changing strings, that's to be prefered after string freeze.
10:55 rangi no its the solution
10:55 Brooke there's no logical rotation between enhancement and bugfixing versions
10:55 Brooke we try it all at once in 6 months and that's madness.
10:55 rangi to the problem of doing not calendar releases and 3.5 year releases
10:56 mtompset Actually, 6 months is a good length of time, because this means there are two bursts of fixes as releases are coming out.
10:56 rangi i disagree its madness, i think there are areas of improvement
10:56 paul_p I don't want to switch back to feature releases ! the 6 months seems a good periodicity. We must stick with it !
10:56 rangi paul_p++
10:57 slef back
10:57 oleonard Agreed, and that means sticking to an early feature freeze
10:57 mtompset but does the feature freeze need to be 2 months? is 1 month enough?
10:57 oleonard The enhancements can wait, but the bug fixes can't
10:57 paul_p and I think that the early Feature Freeze goes with branching stable soon !
10:57 paul_p s/soon/early/
10:57 oleonard mtompset: That has not been the case historically
10:58 Brooke we could rotate. we could have 6 months for bugfixing
10:58 Brooke and 9 or 12 for enhancements
10:58 rangi eeewww
10:58 paul_p mtompset = anyway, i'll be in holiday from aug 4th to 26th, so the FF won't be on aug 22, because it would mean Aug 4th, that's too early !
10:58 thd I think that the six month releases allow incremental improvement and encourage much more care in commits to not break things for major changes.
10:58 Brooke I think the sticking to the deadline bit is way more important than picking an insane deadline and fitting services to it
10:58 oleonard Brooke, I don't think this is the time or place to propose changes to the release cycle
10:59 paul_p maybe switch from april/oct releases to may/nov, and have feature freeze sept 22 ?
10:59 Brooke when is Owen? I bring it up, and I'm nearly always patronised.
10:59 oleonard It should be discussed as part of the process of choosing a new RM
10:59 paul_p oleonard right
10:59 jcamins What is the benefit of May/November?
10:59 oleonard ...not within the current release cycle
11:00 paul_p jcamins = not feature freeze during summer holidays
11:00 jcamins paul_p: ah.
11:00 jcamins Got it.
11:00 mtompset And this 6 month cycle, is it in stone, or flexible by a given amount of time?
11:00 rangi hmm i would have thought holidays is perfect freeze time :)
11:00 thd I have overcome my past objection to calendar releases with the commitment to continued bug fixes after release.
11:00 paul_p mtompset = I would say nothing is in stone, but i'm strongly against changing it again !
11:01 rangi and course thats only the northern summer :)
11:01 paul_p rangi right. when are the southern summer holidays ?
11:01 rangi december
11:01 rangi january
11:01 rangi march
11:01 rangi whenever :)
11:02 eythian_ Whichever day summer falls on that year
11:02 Brooke hang on, Kiwis come *off* holiday?
11:02 paul_p are you implying it's always summer in NZ ? ;-) ( not what eythian_  is saying :D )
11:02 davidnind We get summer? Yeh!
11:02 thd Some projects work poorly with calendar releases.  Koha seems OK thus far.  Some GNU/Linux distributions using calendar releases cannot be trusted to actually work in my experience.
11:03 eythian_ Calendar releases also makes planning possible which is good.
11:03 rangi thd: koha is a zillion times more stable now (even with the 3.8 bugs) than it was ever before
11:03 rangi 3.0.0 was a night mare
11:03 nengard joined #koha
11:03 rangi and it took 3 years
11:04 thd rangi: I am making that point of concurrence.
11:04 Brooke note that I've never proposed 3 years, and that was from constantly moving goalposts instead of honestly assessing things
11:04 Brooke I think it's just as bad to introduce a buggy as version just to hit 6 months
11:04 mtompset So it seems we all want stability.
11:05 rangi yep, so longer feature freeze it is
11:05 oleonard Yes
11:05 thd I had previously, objected based on projects which are so large that they can never have a feature freeze early enough to fix all bugs which should be blockers.
11:05 paul_p Brooke = when 3.8 was released, everything had been tested and it was supposed to be OK. Except there was some side effect the QA process has not detected.
11:05 rangi thd: thats what happens with longer cycles
11:05 mtompset Actually, has anyone actually developed a test plan for every module in Koha?
11:06 rangi the more you cram in, the more likely it is to break
11:06 paul_p mtompset = I know bywater is working on that atm.
11:06 rangi mtompset: we have 57% subroutine coverage
11:06 paul_p mtompset = and the problem is that there are so many options/sysprefs !
11:06 rangi the most useful thing anyone can do for koha
11:06 rangi is write more tests
11:07 rangi it trumps features
11:07 jcamins And we can do functionality regression tests, too!
11:07 rangi yep
11:07 jcamins #link​rface_testing_with_WWW::Mechanize
11:07 rangi the problem is no one wants to pay anyone to do that
11:07 rangi they want to pay for new features
11:07 jcamins Brooke: will that link work?
11:07 * mtompset was thinking the same thing, jacmins.
11:07 paul_p for example, I just failed QA bug 6874, look at comment 32 to see why ! that's something I just discovered by chance !
11:07 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Failed QA , File upload in MARC
11:07 jcamins I didn't include the http://
11:07 thd We need a road maintenance tax.
11:07 paul_p rangi ++ for the problem of no one want to pay for that...
11:08 slef rangi: someone gave a talk about that at kohacon...
11:08 Brooke dunno, so I'll redo
11:08 rangi :)
11:08 Brooke #link[…]th_WWW::Mechanize
11:08 rangi the tests catch more and more stuff, and with http::recorder and mechanize we can test js too
11:09 Brooke so if that's happened in perpetuity
11:09 Brooke can we work in a bugtesting fee to new features?
11:09 paul_p discussing of this for 40mn now. Maybe we can close the discussion, I'll do a summary on koha-devel, and continue trying to find the best solution ?
11:09 Brooke something has to address that gap.
11:09 Brooke paul this is important
11:09 Brooke which is why I've let it go for 40 minutes
11:09 rangi paul_p: i think the feature freeze is all we can do for this release, too late in the cycle to do anything else
11:10 paul_p Brooke = of course it's important ! (and I started it ;-) ) but we could discuss for hours !
11:10 * mtompset nods.
11:10 Brooke but it's not too late for next go
11:11 rangi thats up to the people who write their proposals to be the next RM
11:11 chris_n joined #koha
11:12 rangi if we are going to elect someone to the thankless task that it is, we should try to let them decide how they want to run it
11:12 rangi and like if paul_p has, they ask for advice, we give it, but ultimately it's their release
11:13 joann nodding here
11:13 mtompset If we've agreed that there is a 2 month feature freeze and no freezes in summer, then wouldn't some time in November be the tentative release date for 3.10?
11:13 rangi mtompset: we havent agreed anything
11:13 nengard Okay - the results are in
11:13 paul_p I think i'll discuss of this also with jcamins (unless there's another crazy that want to be RM ;-) )
11:14 rangi the current release date is october 22, but paul_p can shift that as is his perogative
11:14 mtompset but the 2 month feature freeze is a side effect of the desire for stability.
11:14 joann drum roll;
11:14 nengard I'm about to share the survey results
11:14 nengard but the winner is Reno, NV
11:14 jcamins paul_p: my fingers are crossed. :P
11:14 rangi jcamins: not me :)
11:14 nengard Unless someone thinks my math is wrong - which is why I'll share
11:14 paul_p jcamins = which is really a bad thing to type on a keyboard ;-)
11:15 thd please share
11:15 jcamins paul_p: I know... thank goodness for tab complete!
11:15 slef ok well if kohacon13 won't wait, I won't either. kohacon12 update 2/3rds of bills in, still + or - £200, too soon to tell. vids delayed by my move (no dsl hinders uploading), doing as time permits but it's hard
11:15 paul_p nengard = you jump in the middle of the monthly meeting, and KohaCon13 is the next point ;-)
11:15 rangi or we could put it on the agenda and le the meeting continue
11:15 Brooke hang on
11:15 nengard oops
11:15 nengard sorry all
11:15 Brooke lemme at least get the right topic up XD
11:15 slef now I must go to mdeal with an unexpected problem. bye.
11:15 Brooke #topic KohaCon 12
11:15 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 12
11:16 thd It was on the agenda when I looked.
11:16 Brooke It was also awesome, from what I heard ;)
11:16 thd However, hugininn had not changed the topic yet.
11:16 Brooke I wish slef had stuck around to qualify that billing bit
11:17 mtompset I think he mentioned the other day that one of the places you stay hadn't sent the bill yet.
11:18 * jcamins will rephrase: two-thirds of the bills have been received, and based on what they're expecting for the last couple bills (from the University of Edinburgh), they're expecting a shortfall of ~200GPB.
11:18 mtompset stayed at...
11:18 mtompset Right.
11:18 mtompset Donations still welcome. ;)
11:18 jcamins Exactly.
11:19 jcamins GBP
11:19 Brooke #help please donate to cover the last of KohaCon expenses. Just need 200ish quid
11:20 Brooke #topic KohaCon 2013
11:20 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 2013
11:20 laurence left #koha
11:20 rangi Brooke: its + or -  200
11:21 rangi so they may not
11:21 rangi they need the final bill to come in, then he will let us know
11:22 mtompset he said bills, not revenues. ;)
11:23 rangi yes
11:23 rangi they have money, it may cover it and have 200 left over, or they may have a shortfall
11:24 rangi its too soon to know
11:24 nengard Votes for KohaCon 13 (which I think I can post now) have been put on the wiki:
11:24 * oleonard must leave for work
11:25 rangi those tally with my count
11:26 joann night all
11:26 eythian later joann
11:27 rangi night joann
11:27 thd The desert seems extraordinarily popular.
11:27 rangi it had a huge flurry, nigeria was leading until about 4 days out
11:28 rangi but as long as those 297 ppl who voted for reno in first place turn up, all good
11:28 * thd was busy raising money for FSF and failed to vote before the polls closed.
11:29 nengard rangi, there are a lot of librarians in CA and NV that I think voted so they'll be there
11:30 Brooke #info Congratulations Reno
11:30 * thd is from California originally and has spent much time in Reno.
11:30 nengard can I email the lists with this info?
11:30 nengard I have the email ready to go
11:30 mtompset It's been announced, why not?
11:30 paul_p nengard = I don't see why it should be delayed ;-)
11:31 drojf that is gonne be one large kohacon
11:31 nengard Okey dokey :)
11:31 Brooke that'd be awesome
11:31 Brooke nengard++
11:32 nengard I'll post to the website as well
11:32 nengard and the last one in the US was pretty darn big too
11:32 paul_p drojf = why do you way it will be large ?
11:33 eythian I assume we have to shoot a man just to watch him die, eh?
11:33 rangi paul_p: so many votes, surely people only voted for something in first place if they intend to go .. 297 first place for reno
11:33 paul_p (for KohaCon11, 600+ ppl voted for Mumbai. there were not 600 ppl attending, from far ;-) )
11:33 Brooke yes eythian ;)
11:34 drojf1 joined #koha
11:34 rangi paul_p: exactly, so we dont want that again
11:35 mtompset That's why I decided not to vote, because it is very unlikely that I will be going.
11:35 Brooke I think there will be tonnes of Yanks on budgets that don't let them travel outside the US that will come
11:35 Brooke plus a heap of Canadians :)
11:35 * Brooke crosses her fingers for Mexico, too.
11:35 * mtompset cheers for his home country of Canada. :)
11:36 Brooke so let's do the bug signing off bit
11:36 Brooke #topic Old Business - Bug Signoff
11:36 Topic for #koha is now Old Business - Bug Signoff
11:36 Brooke so
11:36 Brooke I went to wikimania
11:36 Brooke which was super cool and super cheap
11:36 Brooke (trust me this is related)
11:37 Brooke and the Wikihow folks
11:37 Brooke had this dashboard
11:37 Brooke that was totally intuitive
11:37 Brooke and I remember magnus and chris doing some visualisation work
11:37 Brooke and how successful just the red, yellow, and orange bits were
11:37 Brooke so I think that if we cross breed the bug list
11:37 Brooke with the wiki dashboard
11:37 Brooke it will be the coolest thing evar
11:38 libsysguy joined #koha
11:38 mtompset Sounds like a feature request. Is there a feature freeze in effect. ;)
11:38 rangi
11:39 rangi you can clone it and send patches
11:39 Brooke they have weather mapped theirs
11:39 Brooke so that there are picture sections
11:40 Brooke and for say article writing, there are a billion waiting, so it's a thunderstorm
11:40 * mtompset smirks, "clone it and send patches. Sounds like enter a maze of doom."
11:40 Brooke it's very clever for getting a really quick visual
11:41 jcamins mtompset: actually, it's really simple.
11:41 mtompset It's what rangi said to me regarding bug 5515.
11:41 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5515 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Leading 'and' in search never returns a result
11:42 jcamins mtompset: okay, that one's a little scarier.
11:42 mtompset Thankfully, I doubt it is like C4::Search.
11:42 thd Brooke: Does this WikiMedia bug dashboard have a proper name?
11:42 rangi you're mad if you are tyring to fix C4::Search
11:42 Brooke thd I suspect it might live behind a small wall
11:43 Brooke I will try and fish it up and post or link a pic someplace
11:43 rangi you should be working in Koha::SearchEngine::*
11:43 Brooke but I wanted to mention it cause I saw it and immediately thought "Koha!!!"
11:43 paul_p @quote add rangi you're mad if you are tyring to fix C4::Search
11:43 huginn paul_p: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
11:43 mtompset And you had a typo, paul_p.
11:43 paul_p hey, I thought I was registred !
11:43 paul_p @quote 211
11:43 huginn paul_p: I've exhausted my database of quotes
11:44 rangi prolly need to identify
11:44 paul_p nevermind.
11:44 rangi @quote search identify
11:44 huginn rangi: 1 found: #73: "<chris_n> owen: try /msg munin identify nick..."
11:44 rangi @quote get 73
11:44 huginn rangi: Quote #73: "<chris_n> owen: try /msg munin identify nick password" (added by owen at 12:38 PM, April 29, 2010)
11:44 rangi s/munin/huginn/
11:45 Brooke so the next thing on here is marking bugs that can be tested in the sandboxes
11:45 Brooke I know there was just a sandbox improvement
11:47 Brooke I don't see how a keyword would hurt
11:47 Brooke does anyone else?
11:47 Brooke if we authorise it, people should use it, yeah?
11:47 rangi should != will
11:48 Brooke nope. it's usually better the other way round
11:48 Brooke authorised entries derived from the crowd
11:48 Brooke but no matter
11:48 Brooke any objections to keywords for bugzilla?
11:48 paul_p not from me ;-)
11:48 jcamins None from me.
11:48 mtompset No, but how will people know the keyword(s)?
11:49 davidnind not from me
11:49 drojf1 you can see the keywords, somewhere. i know that there is only "regression" in it, so i must have found it somehow
11:50 Brooke how about just using sandboxtest?
11:50 thd Brooke: what do you mean in terms of the specific application of keywords?
11:50 Brooke look at the agenda
11:50 Brooke I'll quote it
11:50 jcamins thd: adding a keyword so that people can find bugs that can be tested in the sandbox.
11:50 Brooke Use a keyword in Bugzilla to mark bugs/patches that can be tested with the sandboxes
11:51 mtompset Okay, next uninformed question... what sandboxes?
11:51 Brooke so I'm thinking if we used sandboxtest that could differentiate stuff that can be tested and not get it mucked up with bugs with sandboxen or general tests, but am I right?
11:51 Brooke sandboxen are things that let me test stuff without having to do a whole heap of git schtuff
11:52 eythian mtompset: look through your email from today
11:52 Brooke should say folks where I said me XD
11:52 mtompset okay...
11:52 davidnind
11:53 thd jcamins: I what way do keywords differ from the existing categories for bugs in bugzilla?
11:53 * rangi wanders off to sleep
11:53 Brooke night
11:53 jcamins thd: they cut across categories.
11:53 jcamins This is not for bugs in the sandbox implementation, it's for bugs that can be tested in sandboxes.
11:54 thd I am all in favour of more metadata for bibliographic materials and bugs.
11:54 mtompset davidnind++
11:55 mtompset Why wouldn't all bugs be tested in the sandboxes?
11:56 jcamins So, sandboxtest sounds good to me. What's next?
11:56 jcamins mtompset: the sandboxes can't handle all types of modifications.
11:56 drojf1 mtompset: it does not work for all
11:56 mtompset Ah, okay.
11:56 Brooke Put the names of testers/signoffers in the release notes (more status)
11:56 Brooke by the way, thanks for everyone's patience
11:56 Brooke this feels long because it is: we essentially skived off with no meeting last time.
11:57 * libsysguy will have to catch up in the logs
11:57 Brooke I think this one is cool as long as someone *wants* acknowledgement
11:57 mtompset Isn't this related to jcamins suggestion of Sponsored-by?
11:57 paul_p mtompset = sandboxes can't handle update database very well atm, and don't handle any zebra configuration change
11:58 thd 2 UTC is a problematic time for much of the current distribution of participants in Koha.
11:58 jcamins Anyone who doesn't want acknowledgement can easily be removed from the release notes.
11:58 jcamins mtompset: yes. It's all of a piece. :)
11:58 eythian thd: that's why things rotate
11:58 paul_p if someone want to improve them, he's welcomed, of course ;-)
11:58 Brooke it's plum for Kiwis
11:59 thd Even much of NZ was absent from the last meeting.
11:59 davidnind but not always ... midnight now
11:59 eythian yeah, it's not a good time for kiwis
12:00 eythian but next time may be better
12:00 Brooke is 2 UTC bad for you all, too, then?
12:00 drojf1 13 June 2012 at 18:00 UTC+0
12:00 drojf1 it was not at 2
12:00 drojf1 the next one would be
12:01 drojf1 so, next alibi :P
12:01 Brooke someone said 2, so that's what I was talking about XD
12:01 Brooke anyway
12:01 thd Brooke, we should return to the topic for now but I once tried to show that much of 2 UTC lands in the largely unpopulated ocean.
12:01 Brooke yes I think this is sort of related to the jcamins patch
12:02 jcamins The idea is to make sure that the people and institutions who contribute to Koha are acknowledged.
12:02 cait-m__ joined #koha
12:03 davidnind for NZ 2 UTC = 2pm, depends whether you have to work or not;-)
12:03 eythian well, I work on koha, so...;)
12:03 jcamins Doesn't sound like there's much discussion on that. Anyone who doesn't want their name in the release notes can easily ask for it to be removed.
12:03 Brooke ^
12:03 Brooke moving on
12:03 Brooke Put the monthly signoff stats from Chris C. on (more status)
12:03 thd Acknowledgement++
12:03 Brooke same thing would apply, methinks
12:04 Brooke yes folks?
12:04 wahanui folks are prone to overstay hackfest so I wouldn't worry too much about that given a friendly open wifi connection
12:05 * Brooke once again considers the tyrannical tenet of no objection as a sign of assent...
12:05 * mtompset apologizes, "Replying to work email at 8pm at night."
12:05 Brooke this one is my fav cause I put it there, but I expect folks will hate it
12:05 Brooke Offer prizes/bounties for signing off - either on individual bugs or for doing the most signoffs in a given time frame (Mechanical Turk?)
12:06 Brooke I will offer Diablo or WoW gold if there's a dev that actually wants any of either :)
12:06 jcamins Yes.
12:06 jcamins +1
12:06 mtompset I like the idea, but where will the prizes come from?
12:06 jcamins It can't just be for signing off.
12:06 jcamins It has to be for testing.
12:06 thd Aside from virtual gold, what prizes or bounties might anyone be prepared to offer?
12:07 Brooke so do we conflate those, or do we separate and honour both?
12:07 mtompset Can you sign off without testing, jcamins?
12:07 eythian you_can_
12:07 Brooke one would _hope_ not
12:07 eythian but you shouldn't
12:07 thd Would offering prizes actually lead to the wrong motivation and poor quality control?
12:08 paul_p thd that's a risk, you're right
12:08 mtompset Actually....
12:08 mtompset that gives me an idea.
12:08 * libsysguy prefers bribes of testing other devs
12:08 mtompset We were talking about testing and www::mechanize earlier, right?
12:08 mtompset What if as proof of the testing, they include a mechanize script?
12:09 drojf1 how is that supposed to work? a price per bug? where do all the prizes come from? what if i am poor and cannot set a fancy prize for testing my patch?
12:09 paul_p mtompset = you can't expect that from a librarian using sandbox...
12:09 Brooke but you could get bonus points :)
12:10 mtompset an apache log file of their testing page requests?
12:10 jcamins drojf1: chocolate?
12:10 wahanui reiveune ate them all
12:10 reiveune lol
12:10 eythian mtompset: now you're just adding difficulty so you can have proof
12:11 jcamins Yeah, I don't think making it more difficult to test is the way to go.
12:11 mtompset then how to deal with thd's valid concern of potentially poorer quality control?
12:11 jcamins My point was, you can't say "here's a batch of fudge for whoever signs off on this patch," you have to say "here's a batch of fudge for whoever offers useful testing and feedback on this patch."
12:11 eythian Even recognition of things like: most signoffs, most QA actions, most patches in the release might be a place to start
12:12 jcamins Exactly.
12:12 Brooke where it's wanted
12:13 Brooke I just think we are up against a wall with testing, because I would wager that it's not fun for most people.
12:13 mtompset like that bug which is haunting paul_p with the impending release of 3.10 looming in his mind. :)
12:13 Brooke I don't think it's a Koha specific problem
12:13 * mtompset nods in agreement.
12:14 Brooke and I think if it bumps about in me head long enough, I might actually try and research (or more likely accidentally stumble on) what might work from elsewhere
12:14 thd drojfi: Poor developers may still be developing features which many parties want including relatively wealthy libraries.
12:14 eythian thd: or they might be developing something for a school in Africa...
12:15 Brooke I like the idea of a foundation, even if the origin of the idea was disliked
12:16 eythian I think it's overkill for a situation like this. I'd suggest start small, with a byline in release notes or just an email to the lists, and then build on that if there's reception to it.
12:16 thd eythian: I suspect that if the feature is well considered, a feature useful for schools in Africa will be useful for schools everywhere.
12:17 thd eythian++ start small
12:17 Brooke moving on to
12:17 Brooke Organize bug hunts: try to shake out all bugs in module x, and document tests on the wiki and look at the bugs for that module so we could clean up bugzilla and get some serious testing done + get some written test plans that we could try to automate later on
12:17 thd However, lack of testing is a big and not a small problem.
12:18 mtompset How about bug hunt through bugzilla?
12:18 mtompset There are lots of things needing sign off, or just sitting there.
12:18 Brooke hate to be a downer here, but how much testing can we actually do with the number of manhours we've got?
12:18 jcamins Not a lot more than we are already doing.
12:19 thd Brooke: We need to entice librarians to participate.
12:19 mtompset And that's where sandboxes come in.
12:19 thd ... or even library users.
12:20 mtompset I may end up going to the main office in the near future to see if I can get the library person there to participate in sandbox testing. :)
12:20 thd There is no shortage of library patrons, some of them must be motivated to improve the library.
12:20 Brooke their local library, perhaps
12:20 Brooke it's a tougher sell getting them to look at koha
12:21 Brooke in especial with no central body to donate to
12:21 Brooke almost done
12:21 Brooke More ideas? Do other project have systems that work? (Achievement system for Developers OR better use of an existing tool like Ohloh or Chorewars for status and karma?)
12:22 Brooke wikihow has a quick thumbs up thing for edits that other people find useful
12:22 eythian launchpad has karma points
12:23 Brooke I think chorewars was uber effective for a while, and might still be so :)
12:23 eythian though, we'd probably have to patch them into bugzilla if we wanted them, that would be a notable amount of work
12:23 thd I worry much about prizes giving wrong motivation but libraries could easily donate greater circulation periods or other privileges.
12:23 Brooke fine forgiveness might be an attractive thing
12:24 drojf1 thd: do you really expect patrons to learn the library system of the library they are using?
12:24 Brooke a tiny percent do and will
12:24 eythian thd: I'm sure we've all built in "if (username eq "robin") { $fines = 0.00; } ;)
12:24 jcamins eythian: heh.
12:25 cait-m__ heh
12:25 Brooke moving on, and this one is key
12:25 Brooke Is the wiki login working for new folks now?
12:26 thd drojf1: Obviously, patrons should not be expected to evaluate all features properly, no one is best at all features.  However, patrons may be good candidates for testing many features.
12:27 oleonard joined #koha
12:27 thd I never noticed it not working, but I had not been giving attention.
12:27 oleonard Whoa, long meeting
12:28 Brooke #help please ensure that the wiki login is working for new accounts
12:28 thd oleonard: Cumulated issues from lack of participation in the previous meeting.
12:28 mtompset quite long.
12:28 oleonard previous meeting_s_
12:28 drojf1 long enough for me to bake a bread. it's done now :D
12:29 mtompset and reply to a work email, and make note of that chorewars site.
12:29 mtompset Brooke++
12:29 Brooke moving on
12:29 Brooke Move to Gerrit to streamline and optimize workflow?
12:30 Brooke is the Chris it was referring to asleep now, or is it other Chris, and if it is, is he here?
12:30 jcamins rangi.
12:31 Brooke sleeping it is
12:31 mtompset We did push a lot to this meeting. I think a couple things could get pushed to the next. ;)
12:31 Brooke any other actions from last meeting?
12:31 Brooke we're almost done
12:31 thd gerrit++ mahara?
12:33 Brooke Miscellaneous
12:33 Brooke anyone?
12:33 mtompset Nothing from me.
12:33 Brooke right!
12:34 Brooke #topic time and date of next meeting
12:34 Topic for #koha is now time and date of next meeting
12:34 Brooke I bollocksed this up last time
12:34 shari joined #koha
12:34 Brooke so I'd appreciate oleonard helping this time
12:34 Brooke so I don't do it again
12:34 mtompset Since we were noting that a lot of Kiwis were asleep, I suggest a Kiwi friendly time be chosen.
12:34 Brooke I'm equally knackered, so I think it's equally likely
12:34 jcamins We have a regular location.
12:35 jcamins *rotation
12:35 jwagner The rotation would have the next meeting at 2:00 UTC -- last two were 10:00 and 18:00
12:35 jcamins I vote we follow that, so 2:00 UTC.
12:35 Brooke which is friendly for kiwis, yes?
12:35 Brooke cause its everyone's turn eventually
12:35 mtompset I think that puts it around supper for them.
12:35 Brooke that's before tea
12:36 Brooke smack midafternoon
12:36 tcohen joined #koha
12:36 oleonard Terrible for Europe though
12:36 mtompset So, if that is the rotation, seems good to me.
12:36 oleonard 4AM?
12:36 Brooke it's always shite for someone
12:36 mtompset Well, what day will the next meeting be?
12:37 mtompset Because paul_p may or may not have an update on 3.10
12:37 eythian I think that's about 4pm NZ time or so
12:37 davidnind rotation is good, 2 UTC = 2pm in NZ
12:37 eythian 2 then
12:37 eythian I never remember which way it goes :)
12:37 jwagner We got away from the first Wednesday of the month. Since paul_p is out all of August, maybe skip to early Sept?
12:38 thd jwagner: The danger would then be an extra long meeting next time.
12:38 Brooke not only that
12:38 thd Koha should never have a holiday.
12:38 paul_p thd = isn't this one extra long already ? :D
12:38 Brooke but string freeze is coming up soonish, yes?
12:38 cait-m__ will paul be there at 4 am?
12:39 Brooke doubt it
12:39 thd paul_p: Yes, but partly for the reason which jwagner cited.
12:39 mtompset perhaps keep it to august, because the next rotation may be europe friendlier?
12:39 oleonard 4AM and during your vacation eh paul_p?
12:39 cait-m__ so can be aug
12:40 paul_p oleonard lol !
12:40 Brooke 1 August is still vaguely august
12:41 mtompset That's too close.
12:41 oleonard 1 August is in two weeks
12:41 Brooke yep
12:41 thd Exactly, whether during the summer leaving period or not, 2 UTC would be a difficulty for paul.
12:41 paul_p thd = well, in fact it's less difficult during holidays = I can go back to bed hereafter ;-)
12:41 oleonard I suggest 15 August
12:41 thd :)
12:42 paul_p the main question being = will I have internet where I go in fact !
12:42 paul_p (still not sure)
12:42 mtompset If we do August 8, it would be easier to bump back to first wednesday of month.
12:42 thd mtompset++
12:43 mtompset Let's see 2 UTC is...
12:43 Brooke 8 August 2 Utc
12:43 Brooke plus 1 please
12:43 wahanui 1
12:44 thd +1
12:44 jwagner +1
12:44 jcamins +1
12:44 libsysguy +1
12:44 davidnind +1
12:44 eythian wahanui: you don't even have a timezone
12:44 wahanui eythian: sorry...
12:44 * paul_p don't vote
12:45 * eythian probably won't be able to make that time this time around, but that's OK.
12:45 mtompset +1
12:45 cait-m__ 0
12:45 * mtompset is still trying to figure out the time difference to Manila.
12:45 Brooke #agreed next meeting is 8 August 2 UTC
12:45 Brooke #endmeeting
12:45 Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.8.2, 3.6.6 and 3.4.8 Now Available | Koha Community Website - | General IRC meeting, 18 July 2012 at 10:00 UTC+0
12:45 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jul 18 12:44:18 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
12:45 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-07-18-10.00.html
12:45 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]2-07-18-10.00.txt
12:45 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]18-10.00.log.html
12:46 jwagner mtompset see a tool like[…]ck/converter.html
12:47 LBA joined #koha
12:47 mtompset Thanks, jwagner
12:47 mtompset I was there, but the UI is confusing. I didn't see the UTC option unless I dropped done.
12:47 mtompset dropped down.
12:48 * thd has mostly stayed up and now must be turned off.
12:49 davidnind[…]l?iso=20120808T02
12:50 oleonard mtompset: You can also search "8 August 02:00 UTC" on WolframAlpha. At least for me it correctly guesses my time zone
12:51 mtompset WolframAlpha?
12:51 wahanui WolframAlpha is telling me 8 hours, is that right?
12:51 gaetan_B joined #koha
12:51 oleonard
12:51 schuster joined #koha
12:52 schuster how can I see if a particular cpan module is installed?
12:52 schuster debian system
12:52 jcamins schuster: use packages.
12:53 jcamins Barring that, perl -e "use Module; print 'Hi';"
12:53 schuster I want to specifically see if Business::ISBN is installed.
12:53 jcamins perl -e "use Business::ISBN; print 'Hi';"
12:54 oleonard Or check the Perl modules tab on Koha's about page
12:54 mtompset If you are using debian, DO NOT attempt to install from scratch. USE THE PACKAGES!
12:54 oleonard ...which is a christmas tree of red squares for me
12:54 eythian sounds like a lesson learnt there ;)
12:55 mtompset I actually tried, and encountered a messy headache, so I gave up.
12:55 mtompset Since we are using Ubuntu anyways, and I just wanted to see if my instructions would work for debian too.
12:55 eythian schuster: I'd do: "sudo apt-get install libbusiness-isbn-perl" which will either install it, or won't if it's already there. Regardless, you'll know that it's installed when this is complete.
12:56 mtompset oleonard++
12:56 mtompset That wolframalpha site is cool.
12:58 schuster Koha says it is there, but I wanted to verify.  I was trying to get the ISBN 10/13 working on my community box that I have on my test box and not sure why it isn't picking it up.
12:59 edveal joined #koha
12:59 schuster I have I think what are the 2 patches to make it work, but after reindexing it still doesn't do it.
13:01 mtompset oh... did you restart the koha-zebra-daemon?
13:02 eythian it's rare to need to that
13:02 eythian only if you change zebra config
13:02 mtompset everytime I do a full reindex, I need to restart it.
13:02 davidnind left #koha
13:02 eythian you shouldn't have to
13:02 mtompset The file handles go stale or something for me.
13:02 eythian weird
13:03 mtompset yes, weird.
13:03 mtompset I turn off apache, do a full reindex, restart the daemon, and start apache.
13:03 mtompset It avoids the memory problems we were having, and it works.
13:04 eythian I just reindex and it's immediately happy
13:04 mtompset how much memory do you have?
13:04 eythian depends. 2-4GB typically
13:04 eythian @wunder marseille
13:04 huginn eythian: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 33.0°C (2:30 PM CEST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 18%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
13:04 mtompset we have 512MB. :)
13:04 eythian maybe your apache maxchilds is too high
13:05 eythian although 512 is on the low side
13:05 eythian especially if you're running mysql in that too
13:05 mtompset what's the conf file to check?
13:05 mtompset We're getting it bumped up.
13:06 oleonard @wunder 45701
13:06 huginn oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is 24.4°C (8:30 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect from 1 PM this afternoon to 7 PM EDT this evening...
13:06 eythian /etc/apache2/apache.conf or something like that
13:06 oleonard Whoa, check out that humidity
13:06 mtompset @wunder MNL
13:06 huginn mtompset: The current temperature in Ninoy Aquino Inter-National Airport, Philippines is 26.0°C (8:00 PM PHT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 25.0°C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1009 hPa (Rising).
13:07 gaetan_B joined #koha
13:07 mtompset Welcome to the tropics. ;)
13:09 mtompset How do I know which module, eythian?
13:09 eythian it's whichever module you're running, probably mpm-itk
13:09 eythian which I think is the same as mpm-prefork
13:09 mtompset How do I know which module I am running?
13:09 eythian see which apache module you have installed
13:09 eythian you can only have one
13:10 mtompset How do I see which apache module I have installed?
13:10 eythian wholly cow
13:10 eythian you can just do this:
13:10 eythian apt-cache policy apache2-mpm*
13:10 eythian I didn't know that, that's neat
13:10 * eythian remember that trick
13:11 mtompset I came up with aptitude search apache | grep ^i
13:11 eythian that'd also work :)
13:11 jcamins_away @wunder 11375
13:11 huginn jcamins_away: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Jackson Heights NY US, Corona, New York is 30.0°C (8:42 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1010 hPa (Rising). Heat advisory in effect until 6 PM EDT this evening...
13:11 eythian jcamins_away: that seems pleasantly cool :)
13:12 mtompset StartServers          5
13:12 mtompset MinSpareServers       5
13:12 mtompset MaxSpareServers      10
13:12 mtompset MaxClients          150
13:12 mtompset MaxRequestsPerChild   0
13:12 mtompset Which is too high?
13:13 eythian maxclients, you can't server 150 connections
13:13 eythian not in 512
13:13 mtompset True... that would probably eat our memory completely up.
13:13 dpavlin Why is MaxRequestsPerChild 0 ?
13:13 eythian I assume that means "no limit"
13:13 eythian but I don't really know
13:14 mtompset It's a default value.
13:14 oleonard No package for Template::Plugin::HtmlToText ?
13:15 eythian oleonard: it's in the koha repo
13:15 * mtompset smirks.
13:15 eythian but it's not depended on by default (my fault)
13:15 mtompset I think I grabbed that from jcamins.
13:15 * oleonard is running of of git, not Koha packages
13:15 mtompset It's not a required module.
13:15 eythian oh right
13:16 dpavlin eythian: MaxRequestsPerChild 0 == no limit, but I prefer number there just to be sure that something isn't leeking memory :-)
13:16 eythian it's worth adding the koha repo then anyway, you get some extra packages
13:16 eythian dpavlin: yeah
13:16 eythian dpavlin: though CGI perl shouldn't leak :)
13:16 mtompset Apache does leak.
13:16 * oleonard also doesn't find Data::Pagination or Data::Paginator
13:16 dpavlin eythian: true. plack is influencing my judgement :-)
13:16 mtompset I've watched ours leak about 1MB per koha page request.
13:16 eythian goodness
13:17 mtompset what number would you suggest, dpavlin?
13:19 mtompset Of course, the leak goes away, so it is more of poor garbage collection than a leak.
13:22 nengard looking for something easy to sign off on?? want to get on the scoreboard? :) bug 6716
13:22 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6716 enhancement, P3, ---, nengard, Needs Signoff , Database Documentation
13:28 mtompset Noooooooo.... not more reading.
13:28 * mtompset grins.
13:31 * mtompset decides working towards shutdown is a good idea.
13:31 * mtompset waves.
13:31 mtompset Bye, #koha.
14:08 drojf joined #koha
14:09 drojf left #koha
14:09 drojf joined #koha
14:16 schuster is there an LCCN number index?
14:17 schuster found it control-number
14:25 jcamins_away oleonard: Data::Pagination and Data::Paginator won't install on Squeeze.
14:27 jcamins_away At least, that is what I found.
14:27 jcamins_away The good news is, it doesn't matter.
14:27 oleonard So... what does that mean?
14:27 * jcamins_away gets grouchy and frustrated every time he tries to install master? :P
14:29 paul_p jcamins_away = and bug 8467 won't please you...
14:29 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8467 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, NEW , Error during installation spool directory
14:29 jcamins_away paul_p: no, that was a silly mistake on my part.
14:29 jcamins_away However, there's already a signed off patch.
14:29 jcamins_away & QAed, really.
14:29 jcamins_away On bug 8268.
14:29 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8268 critical, P2, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , Koha should offer way to backup entire db
14:29 jcamins_away Waiting for you to push it.
14:30 jcamins_away :)
14:31 jcamins_away At least, that seems to be the same problem.
14:31 jcamins_away (your error message was in French and mine was in English, so they might be different;)
14:33 jcamins_away paul_p: I tested package installation and not normal installation.
14:36 * jcamins_away heads back home, having spent an hour traveling into the city only to learn that his client is out of town.
14:41 schuster nengard about?
14:41 nengard yes
14:42 schuster I was looking at the matching rules in the documentation and you reference LOC but for the tag you put 001 rather than 010?
14:42 drojf hey, i was promised kohacon 2014 in croatia :P
14:42 nengard hehe
14:42 nengard schuster what link?
14:42 nengard and I didn't write the matching rules part :) but I'll gladly edit it
14:43 schuster I don't know if the LOC even works actually for a matching rule.  That's why I was looking at it I was trying to make it work.
14:43 nengard heh
14:43 nengard we do have a matching rule that we use at bywater for 001
14:43 pastebot "schuster" at pasted "link to matching rules for LOC" (1 line) at
14:44 nengard this one http://manual.koha-community.o[…]cordmatchingrules
14:44 schuster but that is mainly like OCLC numbers do you have any clients that match on LCCN?
14:44 schuster yes that one.
14:45 nengard not that i know of, but usually druthb or talljoy do the matching rules
14:45 nengard during migrations so they'd know better
14:45 nengard if you don't use OCLC though the 001 is the LOC number
14:46 SJeffery joined #koha
14:47 schuster HUH?  the 001 is whatever system number the record might come with.  The record I'm playing with is from Follett.
14:48 nengard right sorry ? ignore me
14:48 nengard brain not working this week
14:49 jwagner The MARC standard for LCCN number is the 010 field, and that is indexed by default as LC-card-number,Identifier-standard
14:50 schuster Very odd - when I loaded it though with 001 it did match based on the 010.
14:50 schuster 001 as the tag match point.
15:04 nengard um
15:04 nengard this is why i did not write the matchpoints part of the manual
15:04 nengard cause they confuse the heck out of me
15:04 nengard sorry ?.
15:05 wizzyrea anyone have opinions on this?[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2720
15:05 huginn Bug 2720: enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Fines that debar automatically, should undebar automatically when paid.
15:05 wizzyrea on how he's suggesting this work?
15:10 cait-m__ joined #koha
15:11 cait-m__ hi all
15:17 wizzyrea hi cait
15:20 reiveune bye
15:20 reiveune left #koha
15:21 cait-m__ hi wizzyrea
15:21 oleonard Why do you ask wizzyrea? It makes logical sense, but I wonder about the performance issue of adding another query in each pla?ce we display patron information
15:22 wizzyrea I ask because this is something that NEKLS wants to see happen
15:23 wizzyrea but I don't have a read on "the best way to do it"
15:26 cait-m__ hmm?
15:26 oleonard cait-m__: Bug 2720
15:26 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2720 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Fines that debar automatically, should undebar automatically when paid.
15:29 cait-m__ ah thx :)
15:42 jcamins ARGH!
15:42 jcamins Don't use 001 for matching.
15:42 jcamins Really.
15:43 jcamins I know I am alone in this, but I feel it is a bad idea.
15:43 jcamins Oh, jwagner agrees with me. :)
15:43 jcamins schuster: use 010$a and LC-card-number.
15:44 jwagner jcamins, not always :-)  If you have a catalog with only one type of control number in 001 (like OCLC), you can use it.
15:44 jwagner But I prefer combined matching rules, checking maybe 001, 035, 010, etc.
15:44 jcamins jwagner: if you are trying to overlay records from the same source, yeah, sure, use 001.
15:44 jcamins But don't confuse that situation with "001 has a standard number."
15:45 jwagner Yes. It depends on how clean the catalog is. If you're merging data from multiple sources, you can't really rely on it
15:46 jcamins schuster: ^^ exactly what I was trying to communicate.
15:51 jcamins @wunder 11375
15:51 huginn jcamins: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Jackson Heights NY US, Corona, New York is 35.0°C (11:12 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 22.0°C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1010 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect until 6 PM EDT this evening...
15:51 oleonard @wunder 45701
15:51 huginn oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is 30.6°C (11:20 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect until 7 PM EDT this evening...
15:51 jwagner @wunder 20740
15:51 huginn jwagner: The current temperature in Hollywood, College Park, Maryland is 35.8°C (11:49 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 52%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect until 9 PM EDT this evening...
15:51 jcamins It feels a lot hotter than that.
15:52 asaurat left #koha
15:56 nengard @wunder 19030
15:56 huginn nengard: The current temperature in Highland Park, Levittown, Pennsylvania is 37.7°C (11:55 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady). Excessive heat warning in effect until 6 am EDT Thursday...
15:57 nengard weather man said it would feel like 105 degrees with the humidity here
15:57 oleonard Whatever happened to Biblibre's enhancement to add editing to the circulation rules interface?
16:05 melia joined #koha
16:09 wizzyrea it got stuck with lack of testing
16:10 wizzyrea or it was lumped in with other changes that would have required basically live testing
16:11 mtompset joined #koha
16:11 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
16:11 libsysguy joined #koha
16:11 mtompset I just wanted to cheer about getting my first class and subclass objects working. :)
16:12 jcamins mtompset: class and subclass objects?
16:12 jcamins What are you working on?
16:12 mtompset playing with Perl OO.
16:12 mtompset so that I can eventually clean up Auth. :)
16:12 jcamins Whoah!
16:12 jcamins mtompset++
16:13 mtompset because I've been asked to get SAML 2.0 working for Koha.
16:13 mtompset And frankly...
16:13 mtompset Auth is ugly.
16:13 mtompset It needs to be prettier.
16:13 jcamins mtompset: you put that so diplomatically.
16:14 mtompset imagine there is a silent capital F on ugly. :)
16:14 oleonard I sure don't mind someone calling part of Koha ugly when it is prefaced by saying they're working on fixing it :)
16:15 mtompset have you seen ANY Koha implementation that actually used .htaccess?
16:15 mtompset because that's the only case I can figure that REMOTE_USER gets defined.
16:16 mtompset for authentication, that is.
16:17 mtompset That whole first IF part makes NO sense otherwise.
16:17 mtompset in checkauth.
16:18 SJeffery mtompset: Wouldn't .htaccess be used for IP athentication setups?
16:18 jcamins Is REMOTE_USER set with SSL?
16:18 mtompset hmm.... I didn't try
16:18 mtompset I only did the http version.
16:19 jcamins Well, you have to configure SSL.
16:19 mtompset That's what a development install is for. ;)
16:19 jcamins But I have a suspicion that REMOTE_USER might be set by Apache if you configure it to use SSL certificates.
16:20 mtompset I believe it is set when the browser is instructed to prompt for a username/password by an .htaccess file.
16:20 jcamins SSL certificates also include username.
16:20 mtompset Thanks for the extra test case... I'll try it later today... after I wake up. :)
16:21 jcamins eythian would know.
16:22 mtompset Hope I and paul haven't hijacked the EOL 3.4 thread you created, oleonard. :)
16:22 paul_p jcamins eythian just left
16:22 jcamins I know.
16:23 oleonard mtompset: Did you vote? :P
16:23 mtompset You said you wanted a discussion before voting. :P
16:24 mtompset Paul pointed out that EOL is EOL regardless of what we call it, and from a Developer perspective that is very true.
16:24 mtompset However, I think the terms "Orphaned" and "Killed" are better suited from the user perspective.
16:25 jcamins mtompset: we've been telling people to upgrade from 3.4 for a while.
16:25 oleonard jcamins: Then reply and vote for "killed" :)
16:26 mtompset Yes, but you haven't been telling them, "If you don't upgrade now, I won't support you any more."
16:26 mtompset Have you?
16:27 jcamins Sort of.
16:27 jcamins The vast majority of support questions are "why doesn't X work?" and the answer is often "X works in 3.6.x and 3.8.x, so you need to upgrade if you want it to work for you, too."
16:28 mtompset That's not quite a "I won't support you" problem.
16:28 mtompset That's a "The solution is upgrading"
16:28 jcamins Hmmm...
16:28 jcamins I'm not sure I see a distinction.
16:28 oleonard Sounds like "I won't support you unless you upgrade" to me
16:29 jcamins I will help people using 3.2 if their questions are about things that are the same between 3.2 and a recent version.
16:29 jcamins But I don't remember how 3.2 worked, so if they aren't seeing the same things I am, all I can say is "sorry, you'd have more luck getting support if you used a supported version."
16:30 mtompset That's more of an "orphan" than a kill.
16:30 mtompset A "kill" would see the same bug in master as 3.2, and still say, "You should upgrade."
16:31 jcamins Well, I'd say that, because they're never going to get the fix in 3.2.
16:31 jcamins Even if I fix it in master immediately.
16:32 mtompset But that's because you didn't fix it in 3.2
16:32 mtompset It's still EOL.
16:32 mib_2pnt4n joined #koha
16:32 mib_2pnt4n good day everyone
16:32 jcamins Hello.
16:32 mib_2pnt4n i could use a quick pointer on a user problem
16:32 mtompset change the user? ;)
16:32 wahanui mtompset: that doesn't look right
16:32 jcamins mtompset: exactly, so if they want me to fix it, they have to upgrade.
16:32 wahanui joined #koha
16:32 mib_2pnt4n i am running 3.8
16:33 jcamins Yay!
16:33 * jcamins knows about 3.8. :)
16:33 jcamins Some.
16:33 jcamins ;)
16:33 mib_2pnt4n i have cataloged a book in OCLC connexion
16:33 mtompset Thank you for running a current version. :)
16:33 mib_2pnt4n downloaded the marc record
16:33 mib_2pnt4n and imported it into koha
16:33 mib_2pnt4n all went great
16:33 mib_2pnt4n but the book is not showing up in the catalog
16:34 mib_2pnt4n it also says "No physical items for this record"
16:34 mtompset indexing! :)
16:34 jcamins You need to have your Zebra reindexer running.
16:34 jcamins If you installed it from the tarball, you'll need to make sure rebuild_zebra is being run in your crontab.
16:34 jcamins If you installed it using the packages, you probably just need to wait a few minutes.
16:34 mib_2pnt4n actually we are working Bywater Solutions
16:34 mib_2pnt4n so i didn't isntall it
16:35 jcamins Oh, in that case you'll need to have ByWater fix up your crontab.
16:35 oleonard Sounds like a question for their support staff mib_2pnt4n
16:35 mib_2pnt4n ok
16:35 jcamins Yup.
16:35 jcamins They have a ticketing system.
16:35 oleonard That's what you're paying them for ;)
16:35 mib_2pnt4n yeah
16:35 mib_2pnt4n i submitted a ticket
16:35 bag :)
16:35 mib_2pnt4n i just wanted to see if there was a quick fix that I was missing
16:35 jcamins Probably not, no.
16:36 mib_2pnt4n ok cool
16:36 mib_2pnt4n thank you for your help
16:37 trea joined #koha
16:44 jcamins Gotta love paul_p's encouraging comment about my RM candidacy.
16:44 jcamins :)
16:44 hankbank joined #koha
16:56 jcamins oleonard: have I successfully made you more confused?
16:56 oleonard I think I get it
16:57 mbalmer joined #koha
16:57 jcamins Hm.
16:57 jcamins Well, next time I'll try harder to make it more confusing.
16:57 jcamins :P
16:57 oleonard I still wonder about the best way to encourage people to work on bugfixes instead of submitting more features
16:57 jcamins Ah, that I don't know.
16:58 jcamins But not pushing enhancements probably is not.
16:58 jcamins Though that was my first thought as well.
16:58 mbalmer ola
16:59 SJeffery joined #koha
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17:12 martian523 joined #koha
17:13 martian523 hi, i'm wondering if there's a way to connect to worldcat as one of the Z39.5 targets?
17:14 oleonard martian523: I think WorldCat wants you to pay for those records
17:14 SJeffery martian523: Yes, as long as you have the necessary login from OCLC.
17:14 SJeffery ^ Yes, you have to pay for them.
17:15 martian523 but using the worldcat web is free
17:15 martian523 that's so funny
17:15 jcamins martian523: is a faint shadow of WorldCat.
17:15 SJeffery Just wait until you see the prices they charge.
17:16 * jcamins has to talk to Skyriver at some point. They're supposed to be more affordable.
17:16 martian523 no luck for me then, since i don't think our library have the budget for this
17:17 jcamins Though they don't pay for records you upload, I don't think.
17:18 oleonard Funny how that works.
17:18 SJeffery jcamins: Their cost was not low enough for us to justify switching (keeping in mind that their dataquality is a notch lower).
17:18 SJeffery Martian523: You can still get almost all the records you will need from libraries with open Z39.50 servers.
17:21 martian523 well, yeah, but it's more convenient to just use one db and get all
17:21 martian523 do you know anything about eiNetwork?
17:31 CharlottevL joined #koha
17:33 oleonard Hi CharlottevL
17:33 CharlottevL hello.. It's awkward, but i need again your help... :(
17:33 oleonard I mean ahoj
17:33 CharlottevL ahoj :)
17:34 CharlottevL nice to hear czech language...
17:34 * oleonard doesn't know much, but wishes he knew more
17:34 * oleonard build
17:36 * tcohen needs to know how to detect problems in jenkins interface
17:36 jcamins tcohen: what do you mean?
17:36 CharlottevL that's beautiful... :) i didn't know this page...
17:36 drojf pozor vlak
17:36 CharlottevL yes, that's very useful :D
17:36 drojf pozor is one of my favourite words :)
17:37 tcohen jcamins: if an email says master is unstable on jenkins
17:37 tcohen where do I search for the problems?
17:37 CharlottevL in czech republic, you can't live without this word ...
17:37 jcamins tcohen: view the latest job, and then click "Test results."
17:38 CharlottevL so my problem for today.. :( when I search something in opac, there is "availability: copies avalable for loan..:", but if I click on recort to place hold, there is error "no avalable items" :(  maybe something with zebra, but don't know, what...
17:38 tcohen jcamins: found it, thanks
17:38 jcamins CharlottevL: you need to add circulation rules.
17:38 jwagner CharlottevL, do you have a circ rule allowing your login to borrow that item?
17:38 CharlottevL yes, i have...
17:38 jwagner If you're not allowed to borrow it, you can't place a hold either
17:39 jcamins I will let someone else tell you exactly what circ rules are needed, because I have forgotten.
17:39 oleonard You need at least one rule for all patrons/all item types
17:40 jwagner identify the patron category and the item type in question. THen look for a circ rule covering that combination. If there isn't one, check the default rules
17:40 jwagner What happens if you try to check out that item to that user?
17:41 CharlottevL it works without problem.
17:41 adnc joined #koha
17:41 CharlottevL maybe an other hitn. If I search in catalog in staff client, there is in column "location" - no item (but if i click on the record, there is an item with bar code )
17:41 jwagner Can you place a hold on that item for that user in staff mode?
17:45 CharlottevL it works only if i click on the record, if i click in the search-result list, there is error  !One or more selected items cannot be placed on hold"
17:45 CharlottevL "little czech primer", thats wonderfull site)
17:49 jwagner That sounds like a circ rule problem, but do you have other items on the title, and are any of them non-circulating items (like reference)?
17:50 CharlottevL no, everything is circ-items...
17:50 jcamins Do you have a rule for DEFAULT-DEFAULT-DEFAULT?
17:51 jwagner and does the applicable circ rule have a count in the Holds Allowed column?
17:52 CharlottevL OPACItemHolds -allowed
17:52 CharlottevL do you mean this?
17:53 jwagner No, in your circ rules
17:54 jwagner Home › Administration › Circulation and fine rules
17:55 CharlottevL holds policy - everything allowed
17:55 cait joined #koha
17:56 jwagner Above that on the page -- the table with headings for Patron category, Item type, etc.
17:57 tcohen jcamins, tests that aren't ok don tell anything about the error
17:57 jwagner Do you have a rule covering that specific combination of patron category and item type, or a default rule that would apply
17:57 tcohen is that fixable?
17:57 jcamins tcohen: they do somewhere, but I always have a lot of trouble figuring out where.
17:57 jcamins tcohen: I generally just run it manually.
17:58 tcohen right
17:58 CharlottevL i let there default rules, nothing changed yet...
17:58 jwagner Set up a rule covering that combination, and allowing holds, then try it again.
17:59 tcohen who's maintaining the packages.ubuntu file?
17:59 tcohen =~ swap
17:59 * cait waves
18:00 jwagner hi cait
18:00 cait hi jcamins
18:00 cait hi jwagner
18:00 cait autocomplete
18:00 wahanui autocomplete is probably biting me
18:00 tcohen i have an issue in a amd64 PVM (Ubuntu 12.04) using dselect --set-selections
18:01 tcohen as it pulls i386 dependencies
18:02 CharlottevL jwagner - no change :( (i'm really newbie in koha... but if it would be only circ-rule problem, why I have "no items" in column "location" ?)
18:03 jwagner on staff search results? possibly the index hasn't caught up?
18:03 CharlottevL yes, on staff search results.. :(
18:05 CharlottevL (i don't understand, what do you mean with "index" )
18:07 jwagner are you running the zebra update cron job?
18:07 jwagner somebody who knows, what's the link to the indexing setup instructions?
18:08 CharlottevL zebra update cron job - running...
18:09 cait1 joined #koha
18:11 jcamins Install.debian?
18:11 wahanui Install.debian is at​koha.git;a=blob;f=INSTALL.debian
18:11 jcamins ^^
18:13 jcamins Woohoo!
18:14 jcamins I have changed the record export process efficiency from O(n) to O(4n)!
18:14 jcamins Possibly going in the wrong direction, there.
18:15 * jcamins waves to cait1.
18:16 trea left #koha
18:16 cait1 hi jcamins :)
18:21 CharlottevL :(
18:21 oleonard still no luck with holds CharlottevL ?
18:31 logbot joined #koha
18:31 Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.8.2, 3.6.6 and 3.4.8 Now Available | Koha Community Website - | General IRC meeting, 18 July 2012 at 10:00 UTC+0
18:34 jwagner That still strikes me as some kind of an indexing problem and I'm not sure it's related to the holds problem. I have to leave in a few minutes, though.  Probably other people have some ideas...
18:37 sekjal joined #koha
18:38 sekjal hi, #koha
18:39 tcohen hi sekjal
18:39 jcamins Hi sekjal.
18:39 sekjal hi tcohen, jcamins
18:39 jcamins tcohen++
18:41 tcohen jcamins?
18:41 wahanui jcamins is A-Grade developper on Koha willing to rewrite it from top to bottom. Good Luck jcamins
18:41 tcohen hehe
18:42 jcamins tcohen: your volunteering to fix up the Ubuntu installation docs.
18:43 tcohen oh, i'll do it, just need to clarify on the ubuntu version support thing
18:43 Oak joined #koha
18:43 jcamins Yes, and that wins you karma. :)
18:46 tcohen well, i'll start tomorrow, when I get some feedback
18:46 tcohen now gotta leave!
18:46 tcohen bye #koha
18:46 sekjal bye, tcohen!
18:48 jcamins sekjal: have you gotten UMass to switch to Koha yet? ;)
18:48 sekjal jcamins:  not yet
18:49 sekjal problem is, we're in a consortium, so we have 4 other colleges to convince
18:49 sekjal but I have taken my first crash course in JQuery Mobile!
18:50 jcamins Woohoo!
18:50 sekjal creating a tablet-based headcount tool a la NCSU's Suma (but based off our CMS and Piwik)
18:54 jcamins Have I commented recently on the silliness of using "Cookery" as a subject heading... ever?
18:55 jcamins Has anyone ever used that term?
18:55 jcamins Oh, drat.
18:55 jcamins I forgot to remove a warn.
18:57 oleonard jcamins: It's the canonical example of bad subject headings. So yes, everyone, often.
18:58 jcamins lol
18:58 jcamins I meant "anyone who wasn't a cataloger."
18:59 jcamins A slightly perplexing heading: "St. Louis, Betty Wedman-".
19:05 SJeffery joined #koha
19:11 schuster joined #koha
19:14 schuster So when looking at the OPAC and XSLTBloc how does the .tt know to display the Detail or the Results XSLT format?
19:14 jcamins schuster: it's passed in.
19:14 schuster From where?  the pl or?
19:15 * Oak waves goodbye
19:22 * wizzyrea recalls nengard going on about cookery a while back
19:22 jcamins oleonard: if you wanted to make a configuration page that involved checking lots of buttons and putting things in order, what would you use to create that page?
19:25 jcamins oleonard: this is good for putting things in order, but I'm not sure you'd approve of it for enabling lots of plugins:
19:25 oleonard I've got no problem with adding that
19:25 jcamins I mean, the configuration page in question would be for enabling plugins.
19:26 jcamins Suggestion plugins, for example: spelling, from authorities, from VIAF, from...
19:26 jcamins etc.
19:27 jcamins They need to be put in the proper order (where "proper" = the order the library wants), but they also have to be enabled or disabled.
19:32 wizzyrea jcamins have you looked much at how wordpress does plugins?
19:33 jcamins wizzyrea: I think plugins are just enabled or disabled with Wordpress, aren't they?
19:34 oleonard jcamins: I could see you emulating the jqueryui example you posted, with checkboxes in each of the sortable divs, or a layout where you move each sortable item from the "disabled" box to the "enabled" box
19:34 jcamins Also, to clarify, when I say "plugin" I don't mean user-accessible plugins a la bug 7804.
19:34 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7804 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, In Discussion , Add Koha Plugin System
19:34 jcamins oleonard: ah, good call. I like the checkbox idea.
19:35 jcamins I knew you would have a solution. :)
19:36 oleonard Of course I'm best at nick-picking others' designs, so I'll wait until you release yours and then mess with it ;)
19:36 jcamins lol
19:36 jcamins Fair enough.
19:39 * oleonard grumbles that he had a nice working JS-based solution for Bug 4354, but that was before hour loans and hard due dates
19:39 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4354 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, REOPENED , Cannot edit existing issuing rules
19:40 wizzyrea what other state is there, jcamins?
19:40 wizzyrea besides "on" or "off"
19:41 wizzyrea oh
19:41 rangi Morning
19:41 libsysguy joined #koha
19:41 wizzyrea never mind I was thinking of user accessible ones
19:41 wizzyrea morning rangi
19:43 jcamins Morning.
19:43 wahanui i guess morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast.
19:46 oleonard Wow, I just noticed admin/ is chock full of SQL. Is that kosher?
19:47 rangi It's not halal
19:47 rangi Yeah. Now. We should fix it
19:48 rangi Oh man I missed Schuster
19:49 nengard joined #koha
19:50 rangi I already have my abstract written in my head
19:51 rangi The shower strikes again
19:51 jcamins What are you and schuster presenting on?
19:52 oleonard Presenting?
19:52 jcamins Abstract?
19:52 jcamins Huh?
19:52 * jcamins is confused, and wanted to make sure everyone else was, too.
19:52 jcamins Wow.
19:53 jcamins Module::Pluggable is *awesome*.
19:53 rangi Kohacon13
19:53 wahanui Kohacon13 is[…]osals_for_hosting
19:53 rangi It is
19:53 jcamins Ah.
19:53 jcamins So, what are you and Schuster presenting on?
19:53 rangi I want to use it for Koha::Auth
19:53 jcamins Yes!
19:53 jcamins Do it!
19:54 jcamins It will make your life better.
19:54 rangi Oh hmm I hadn't factored in Schuster
19:54 rangi Hmm
19:54 jcamins Huh?
19:54 * drojf does not understand a word
19:54 * wizzyrea either
19:54 * wizzyrea gets the popcorn
19:54 wizzyrea it's gonna be like watching Donnie Darko.
19:55 drojf yeah popcorn, let's sit quietly in the corner and eat and let the grown ups talk
19:55 * wizzyrea nods
19:55 rangi Schuster and abstract totally unrelated
19:55 rangi Apart from he organised kohacon09
19:55 rangi Which jogged my brain
19:56 rangi But maybe by next year his new library will be on koha
19:56 * wizzyrea marvels at the way the human mind works
19:56 jcamins Ohhh.
19:57 SJeffery ^^ That is working?
19:57 jcamins Hey, now.
19:57 jcamins Popcorn is a vital part of any work day.
19:58 wizzyrea especially when things get weird.
19:59 rangi I will also answer questions only from ppl who beat me in a hand of blackjack
19:59 drojf to brighten up the discussion a little, has anyone of you experience with small solar panels?
19:59 rangi Not me
19:59 jcamins drojf: a little, why?
19:59 jcamins And, how small?
20:00 drojf small enough to power a raspberry pi?
20:00 * wizzyrea has those solar lights by her sidewalk, if that counts
20:00 wizzyrea oh drojf, I saw a thing the other day on how to repurpose those cheap solar cells… let me see if I can find it
20:01 rangi Coffee time
20:02 drojf i'm not really sure what my question is about it. a genral "how does it work/ what do i need" i guess. i looked at ebay a little, you can either get just a panel and some cables, or you can get a whole charge controller thingy
20:02 rangi Brian
20:02 wizzyrea[…]ps-tech-projects/
20:02 rangi Doh
20:02 rangi Bbiab
20:02 rangi Swype is balls
20:02 wizzyrea keke
20:02 wizzyrea ^^ that link was for you drojf
20:02 drojf that looks cool, thanks wizzyrea
20:03 wizzyrea you made me do a tmmto
20:03 wizzyrea ;)
20:03 wizzyrea (that makes me think of)
20:04 wizzyrea if you can run a raspberry pi off of AAA batteries, I think you could use those lamps to charge them
20:04 wizzyrea dk how stable the current is tho
20:04 wizzyrea or use the panels in several lamps
20:05 jcamins wizzyrea: not very. You need to filter it and you need some sort of battery for when the sun isn't up.
20:05 * jcamins was picturing 1m^3 solar panels when you said "small"
20:05 wizzyrea right, those lights basically work on the principle that the battery runs the light, and the solar cell charges the battery
20:05 wizzyrea and they have a photodetector that turns off the light during the day
20:05 wizzyrea so battery only charges when it's light out
20:06 nengard left #koha
20:06 wizzyrea hehe no i meant 5cm^2
20:06 wizzyrea ;)
20:06 jcamins I mean, I thought drojf meant 1m^2
20:06 jcamins Not cubed, squared.
20:07 drojf heh i think that would be too much already
20:07 drojf the battery problem lead me to the controller thing. like this maybe[…]sh=item5ae2c5d6b1
20:07 jcamins So incredibly awesome. Module::Pluggable is a wonderful thing.
20:08 jcamins Or you could build your own. Is fun!
20:08 * oleonard suggests that after a few dates jcamins ask Module::Pluggable to go steady
20:08 drojf lol
20:08 jcamins lol
20:09 jcamins I meant building your own controller is fun.
20:09 drojf jcamins: "fun"? i have npo idea how to do that, but that thing in the picture looks like more than i can do myself
20:09 * wizzyrea smells the perl-omones that Module::Pluggable is giving off, decides it's probably best to leave them alone
20:09 wizzyrea where them = jcamins and Mod::Pluggable
20:10 wizzyrea drojf which picture?
20:10 jcamins oleonard: wizzyrea: laugh if you will, but you're going to feel differently when "did you mean?" can be extended without doing any real work at all.
20:10 wizzyrea oh I am glad you are having a love affair with it
20:10 jcamins drojf:
20:10 drojf wizzyrea: the ebay link i sent a minute ago or so
20:11 jcamins Though we had a simpler one.
20:11 wizzyrea ohhh
20:11 wizzyrea my parents had a solar water heater when i was a kid
20:11 wizzyrea we NEVER ran out of hot water. Ever.
20:11 wizzyrea plus it was a great place to play under in the summer :P
20:12 wizzyrea under the solar panels
20:12 drojf wow, the internet knows everything. thanks jcamins
20:12 jcamins drojf:[…]/solarcharger.htm
20:12 oleonard Isn't the never-running-out a factor of the size of the water tank rather than the solar aspect wizzyrea ?
20:13 wizzyrea yes and no - we wouldn't have had the huge tanks except that we had a solar system
20:13 wizzyrea but technically you are right
20:13 oleonard I get it
20:15 drojf jcamins: excellent. thanks
20:15 wizzyrea but you *can* scavenge the panels from those little lights :)
20:15 jcamins drojf: the problem will be maintaining the current when switching between solar and battery.
20:16 rangi back
20:16 wizzyrea they are like, 2 bucks here, cheaper now since they are on sale because of midsummer
20:16 jcamins We didn't care so much because it was just the radio and starter.
20:22 drojf ok that looks cool. so basically a panel, controller and battery and that's it. i won't get bored once the wifi access point is stable on the pi ;)
20:22 wizzyrea drojf:[…]e/~3/DWzQVAHdZyk/
20:22 wizzyrea you saw this no doubt?
20:23 drojf yes, but i have not tried it yet
20:23 * oleonard wonders if it will stop raining buckets in the next 10 minutes or if he should make a run for it
20:23 jcamins oleonard: I was wondering that too, actually.
20:24 * wizzyrea is jealous
20:24 wizzyrea you have wet stuff falling from the sky? what's that like
20:24 oleonard Quite novel actually
20:26 oleonard Hey me, remember when you saw that umbrella in the hall and told yourself you ought to toss that into your car?
20:26 oleonard Aaaaand, it's gone.
20:27 rangi heh
20:29 oleonard See ya later everybody
20:36 wizzyrea @wunder lawrence ks
20:36 huginn wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 40.4°C (3:34 PM CDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Falling). Heat advisory in effect until 7 PM CDT Sunday...
20:36 wizzyrea oh look at that.
20:36 jcamins @wunder 11375
20:36 huginn jcamins: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Jackson Heights NY US, Corona, New York is 30.6°C (4:02 PM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1011 hPa (Rising). Heat advisory in effect until 6 PM EDT this evening...
20:36 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
20:36 wizzyrea awful.
20:36 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 18.9°C (10:12 PM CEST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Falling).
20:36 jcamins Is it really still that hot?
20:36 jcamins No.
20:37 wizzyrea heh, 40.4, now that is hot.
20:37 jcamins It also didn't warn that there's a flood advisory.
20:41 rangi @wunder nzwn
20:41 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0°C (8:00 AM NZST on July 19, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026 hPa (Steady).
20:43 drojf you should mix your weathers a little, then you'll get what we have here ;)
20:49 sekjal night, #koha!
20:53 trea joined #koha
21:04 wizzyrea @later tell jcamins[…]yc-storm-2012.jpg holy moly, this was your storm from today
21:04 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.
21:05 jcamins o.O
21:05 wizzyrea oh i thought you were gone >.>
21:07 jcamins Nope.
21:07 jcamins Writing tests.
21:09 rangi jcamins++
21:13 jcamins my @installed_filters = map { "Koha::Filters::MARC::$_" } grep { /\.pm$/ && -f "$filterdir/$_" } readdir($dh);
21:13 jcamins I would like to do that in a non-horrifying ways.
21:13 jcamins Any suggestions?
21:13 jcamins Alas, I'm too early for papa, I think.
21:13 jcamins Also, I need to remove the ".pm" from that string.
21:14 libsysguy jcamins wth is that man
21:15 jcamins I combined the grep and the map.
21:15 jcamins So... how do I remove the .pm$?
21:16 rangi yeah its only 7am in brisbane
21:16 rangi he'll be here in an hour or 2
21:16 jcamins It worked!
21:17 rangi how cool is this
21:17 jcamins :D
21:17 rangi "I am keen to do unit
21:17 rangi testing for Koha with Chris if that can be arranged and also work in any
21:17 rangi other projects that are available."
21:17 jcamins Who gets the karma?
21:17 rangi yay for high school kids who want to write tests!
21:17 rangi 2 of the catalyst academy kids want to continue working
21:17 jcamins (very cool... karma-deserving cool, in fact)
21:18 rangi well karma for ibeardslee and anitsirk for running the academy too
21:18 wahanui ibeardslee and anitsirk for running the academy too has neutral karma
21:18 rangi heh
21:18 jcamins ibeardslee++
21:19 jcamins anitsirk++
21:20 jcamins This is so cool!
21:20 jcamins I did a search on "Holiday cookery" and got the results for "Holiday cooking"!
21:20 jcamins :D
21:21 rangi nice!
21:21 rangi see instead?
21:21 rangi or see also?
21:21 jcamins See instead.
21:21 jcamins Okay, I now have two arrays and want to confirm that they have the same contents.
21:22 jcamins Excuse me... I want to confirm that all the items in one are in the other.
21:23 jcamins Ah, got it.
21:23 ibeardslee rangi: which ones?
21:23 wahanui which ones are those?
21:25 ibeardslee shush you
21:26 rangi bart and jorgia
21:26 rangi one uni, one high school now
21:27 jcamins bart++
21:27 jcamins jorgia++
21:29 ibeardslee oh good stuff
21:30 cait joined #koha
21:30 rangi hey cait
21:31 cait hi rangi
21:32 jcamins How do you initialize an empty array?
21:32 rangi ()
21:33 rangi my @array=() or [] if its a ref
21:33 rangi at least thats what my not caffeinated enough brain is saying
21:35 jcamins Yeah, that worked.
21:38 cait that's what modern perl says too
21:38 cait use an empty list
21:41 jcamins Wait a minute! I don't need the DB at all to test this all the way!
21:41 jcamins Wait...
21:41 jcamins Do I?
21:42 jcamins Can you force garbage collection in Perl?
21:42 cait I have no idea what you are talking about
21:42 cait but I have stable internet - finally
21:42 * cait is happy now
21:44 drojf joined #koha
21:47 rangi yep
21:47 rangi you make a DESTROY sub
21:47 rangi
21:48 jcamins rangi: I have the DESTROY sub.
21:48 rangi i want to write
21:48 jcamins What I want to do is call it in a unit test.
21:48 jcamins TEST ALL THE THINGS!!!!
21:48 rangi Acme::Dalek
21:48 jcamins :)
21:48 jcamins lol
21:48 rangi which changes destroy to EXTERMINATE_EXTERMINATE
21:49 rangi can you go $self->DESTROY
21:49 rangi ?
21:49 jcamins Hm.
21:50 jcamins Oh, I know.
21:50 jcamins I can use eval {}
21:50 cait oh no, no self destruction please!
21:50 jcamins If it goes out of scope, it'll save any errors in $somethingorother.
21:52 jcamins Woohoo!
21:52 jcamins Successfully tested the entire file.
21:52 jcamins rangi: how do I get a coverage thingy to confirm that I didn't miss anything?
21:53 rangi prove_cover
21:54 rangi[…]3/bin/prove_cover
21:54 rangi prove_cover mytest
21:55 jcamins A tricky one... not in Debian?
21:55 jcamins Oh, libdevel-cover-perl
21:55 rangi yep
21:56 jcamins Or not.
21:57 cait jcamins: what are you doing?
21:57 rangi im 99% sure i didnt cpan it on
21:58 jcamins cait: testing all the things!!!!
21:58 jcamins Doesn't seem to be available anywhere.
22:01 cait testing all the tings sounds brilliant
22:01 cait oh
22:01 rangi jcamins: you can just use cover
22:01 rangi if you dont want to run the tests at the same time
22:01 rangi just want coverage
22:01 rangi
22:01 cait did anyone know that when you hit enter while you are in the vendor number field in subscriptions you get a perl error?
22:02 cait why do I only find such things when doing presentatoins?
22:02 jcamins Ah, cool.
22:02 jcamins Thanks.
22:05 pastebot "jcamins" at pasted "ok 1 - use Koha::RecordProcess" (38 lines) at
22:05 jcamins Need to figure out what it's not testing in Record::Processor.
22:05 edveal left #koha
22:12 jcamins How do I get a count of items in a list that match a particular regex?
22:12 * jcamins tries grep
22:14 libsysguy rangi
22:14 libsysguy its been awhile since I shared
22:14 libsysguy every time I squash a bug I want my computer to play 'fatality'
22:14 tcohen joined #koha
22:14 rangi heh
22:14 rangi heya tcohen
22:15 tcohen hi rangi
22:15 jcamins Okay, that's enough testing for one module. :)
22:15 tcohen how r u doing'
22:15 rangi bad luck on not winning the bid .. now next year im gonna have to agonise over nigeria or argentina again! :)
22:15 tcohen hahaha
22:16 jcamins How do I remove a file from a commit?
22:16 tcohen i'm planning a fund raise so I can fly to nevada!
22:16 rangi git reset file git commit --amend
22:17 jcamins Thanks.
22:17 tcohen backing up the file first?
22:17 rangi well it will still be there, you can stash it if you want
22:18 jcamins There we go.
22:18 jcamins Perfect.
22:19 tcohen ALTER TABLE issues DROP FOREIGN KEY `issues_ibfk_2
22:19 tcohen gives me
22:19 tcohen DBD::mysql::db do failed: Error on rename of './koha_ues/issues' to './koha_ues/#sql2-325-2d' (errno: 152)
22:19 rangi tcohen: i hope you can make it :) i will buy you dinner
22:20 rangi ahh it makes a temp table while it does the alter table
22:20 tcohen line 4425
22:20 tcohen is it a bug or is it a faulty configuration in mysql server?
22:25 martian523 joined #koha
22:25 martian523 hi, back again
22:26 martian523 is there a way to batch delete patrons on koha 3.8?
22:26 rangi libsysguy:[…]6QnQ&feature=plcp
22:26 rangi martian523: not in 3.8 no
22:26 libsysguy haha every time i see this i lol hard
22:27 rangi yep :)
22:27 martian523 so i have to delete one by one?
22:27 rangi yes, you can do it in the db, but that wont check if they have items on issue or hold etc
22:27 martian523 sigh!
22:28 libsysguy rangi I thought there were fk restraints for that?
22:28 rangi there is code for batch modifications and deletes of patrons in testing at the moment
22:28 rangi libsysguy: no, there are cascade on deletes
22:28 libsysguy ahhh
22:28 rangi for some anyway
22:29 martian523 thanks for the help though
22:29 tcohen you might first anonumize patrons
22:29 libsysguy is there a bug no for that batch mod rangi?
22:29 rangi martian523: you could look at bug 5742
22:29 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5742 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , batch edit patrons
22:29 rangi its in master now, so should be in 3.10.0
22:30 libsysguy ok cool
22:30 cait hm but think you can't batch delete
22:30 cait only edit
22:30 tcohen ALTER TABLE issues DROP FOREIGN KEY `issues_ibfk_2`;
22:30 tcohen Query OK, 847 rows affected (0.26 sec)
22:30 tcohen Records: 847  Duplicates: 0  Warnings: 0
22:30 tcohen that's weird
22:31 rangi tcohen: disk space?
22:31 tcohen running that query from raised the error
22:31 tcohen 37% usage
22:31 tcohen 4.6GB free
22:32 rangi same user in both cases?
22:32 tcohen root in both cases
22:32 rangi no idea
22:32 tcohen koha-upgrade-schema
22:32 tcohen at least I'm the only one with this problem
22:33 rangi hmm that will run as the user
22:33 tcohen :-D
22:33 rangi not root
22:33 tcohen oh
22:33 rangi unless the user in your koha-conf.xml is root
22:33 tcohen no its not
22:33 rangi the nice thing with it is, it su  to the user
22:33 rangi and runs the ugprade as that user using that instances conf
22:34 rangi (you can have multiple koha running easily with the packages)
22:34 tcohen yes, i've been using them for testing purposes
22:35 tcohen but when I received this old 3.1.X DB
22:35 tcohen for upgrading... with all tables using MyISAM
22:35 tcohen ...
22:35 jcamins eythian just dealt with an upgrade like that.
22:35 tcohen got this weird problems when s/MyISAM/InnoDB/ I guess
22:36 rangi ahhhh
22:36 rangi yeah you want to fix them, you dont want MyISAM
22:36 rangi no foreign keys with that
22:36 tcohen is it ok if I replace in the dump?
22:36 rangi in theory yes
22:36 tcohen Engine=MyISAM for... ok
22:36 rangi in practice back up :)
22:37 rangi i think it should work fine
22:39 * jcamins goes to eat dinner.
23:41 papa joined #koha
23:43 jcamins_away rangi: want to see graphically just how bad C4 is?
23:43 jcamins_away
23:43 Judit joined #koha
23:43 Judit good morning
23:43 jcamins_away That from "use C4::Heading" and "use C4::AuthoritesMarc"
23:44 jcamins_away Actually, that's all from AuthoritiesMarc.
23:45 jcamins_away Wait, actually, I'm using Devel::Cover wrong.
23:45 jcamins_away Hm. No I'm not.
23:47 rangi jcamins_away: its all in jenkins and has been for years
23:48 rangi http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ter/HTML_Report/?
23:48 rangi the good news is it was 38% sub coverage and is now 53.1
23:48 rangi the trend is in the right direction
23:49 jcamins_away Oh, I know.
23:49 jcamins_away That was from *one test*.
23:49 jcamins_away On one file.
23:49 jcamins_away Which used C4::AuthoritiesMarc.
23:49 mtj hay, i just discovered something nice about perlcritic too....
23:49 rangi yep, too many uses
23:49 jcamins_away And nothing else.
23:49 rangi hence, Koha::
23:50 rangi which if it has no other goal, breaking that chain should be the only one
23:50 rangi actually its the only thing I care about for Koha::
23:50 rangi stop the dependency chains
23:50 rangi the rest is all gravy
23:51 jcamins_away I actually already moved all the required functionality to Koha::, but since it was one function call, I wondered what it'd look like if I shimmed in GetAuthority.
23:51 jcamins_away (hint: it looks outrageous)
23:51 mtj perlcritic (with a default config) gives some false violations for ./koha.git dir
23:52 mtj i tweaked a .perlcritic file, and its down from 671, too 551 violations :)
23:53 mtj $ cat .perlcriticrc
23:53 mtj [TestingAndDebugging::RequireUseStrict]
23:53 mtj equivalent_modules =  Modern::Perl
23:53 mtj .
23:53 rangi that should already be in there mtj
23:53 rangi look at t/perlcriticrc
23:54 rangi which is what the 00-testcritc.t test uses
23:54 mtj bah, so it is :p
23:54 rangi my $rcfile = File::Spec->catfile( 't', 'perlcriticrc' );
23:55 rangi overtime we can make it more strict, when we get all the nasty category 5 errors gone :)
23:55 rangi id like to run it stricter on Koha:: already
23:55 jcamins_away fix_marc21_auth_type_location
23:55 rangi no point introducing mess
23:56 rangi also, maybe make a rule
23:56 rangi no module in Koha
23:56 rangi without a test
23:56 rangi arent you glad im not RM anymore :)
23:56 jcamins_away Horrible, horrible, horrible.
23:56 jcamins_away I can't imagine what that was for.
23:57 jcamins_away There's POD.
23:57 jcamins And I read it.
23:57 jcamins And it didn't help.
23:58 jcamins Oh wise rangi, I seek your advice.
23:58 mtj haay chris, have you spotted the perlcritic::progressive module?
23:58 rangi not that i recall
23:59 rangi about jcamins ?
23:59 mtj we could run a pc::prog test on a stricter level...
23:59 rangi mtj: i think for the Koha:: space thats a good idea
23:59 rangi and the .pl files of course
23:59 jcamins rangi: oh, sorry, got distracted.
23:59 rangi C4/ is a lost cause
23:59 jcamins Right.

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