IRC log for #koha, 2011-02-18

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:03 sekjal joined #koha
00:31 rangi thd++
00:32 rangi charles++
00:32 thd charles++
00:32 rangi so_called_viral_licenses_t​hat_freedom_haters_hate++
00:34 thd rangi: I am recommending that he use GPL 2+ for now so that we can add his code sooner but I am writing to inform him about the range of GPL compatible licenses. an ex
00:35 rangi i love all the gpls
00:35 rangi well 1, not so much, but all the rest :)
00:35 thd rangi: Any compatible license will do.
00:35 rangi in a pinch .. yes
00:36 thd rangi: If the license is compatible then modifications have the license of the modification.
00:36 rangi true :)
00:37 thd rangi: He had never thought about licenses previously, therefore, he did not know how to answer.
00:37 thd ... when you asked him.
00:39 rangi ahhh, that makes more sense :)
00:39 thd rangi: He understood somewhat how licenses were applied but was a little hesitant without knowing how simple it is to apply a license to code.
00:39 rangi im glad he talked to you, not the people on the code4lib fudding about gpl ;)
00:40 thd rangi: What license are people advocating on code4lib instead of GPL.
00:40 thd ?
00:40 rangi MIT
00:41 rangi Personally, I much prefer "non-viral" type open source licenses like Apache or MIT for this reason.
00:41 rangi ie, let your code be borged into osx licenses :)
00:42 thd rangi: That 'viral' word is scary to many people.
00:42 thd People imagine the license escaping from a bottle and devouring them :)
00:43 thd 'viral' is pejorative and false.
00:43 rangi yeah
00:43 rangi hence my ++ above :)
00:44 * mtj waves
00:44 mtj interesting topic guys
00:44 thd 'Copyleft' is more difficult to recognise instantly because it takes a while to understand the meaning.
00:45 thd People already know the meaning of 'viral'.
00:45 thd s/recognise/appreciate/
00:47 druthb joined #koha
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00:51 rangi hello pa
00:54 thd rangi: Charles Ledvina told me that he stopped doing substantive work on his Chopac ILS because he could not keep up with the rate of development of Koha and other library systems.
00:54 rangi ahhh, he should join us ;)
00:54 rangi hes a man with ideas
00:55 rangi we like those (and women too of course)
00:55 nengard hi all
00:55 thd rangi: There are a few libraries using Chopac and he makes some occasional improvements for them.
00:55 rangi cool
00:56 thd rangi: I spoke to him about git being accessible on many platforms.
00:56 thd rangi: He is using a very cheap web host which does not allow enough control to install Koha.
00:57 rangi ahhh
00:57 mtj pssst: linode ;)
00:57 rangi if he wants a koha to play with, im sure we can sort one out for him
00:58 thd rangi: Yes, I will include that suggestion in my next message to him.
01:07 druthb @later tell cait JULY 19!
01:07 huginn druthb: The operation succeeded.
01:07 sekjal druthb++
01:07 jcamins_away druthb: kf will probably be on before cait. It's only Thursday.
01:08 druthb she logs on from home before work, about midnight our time, some days.
01:08 jcamins_away Ah.
01:08 jcamins_away Never noticed that.
01:08 sekjal left #koha
01:08 jcamins_away I have the good sense to be asleep at that time.
01:09 rangi its the best part of the day
01:10 eythian yeah, I find when I'm asleep to also be the best part of the day.
01:12 rangi midnight us time, thats about 6pm here :)
01:15 rangi
01:15 rangi friday flamenco
01:15 eythian friday new wave here, but that doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
01:16 rangi :)
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02:38 brendan___ @wunder 93109
02:38 huginn brendan___: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 12.2�C (6:43 PM PST on February 17, 2011). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: 7.0�C. Pressure: 29.99 in 1015.5 hPa (Steady).
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06:46 cait
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06:57 francharb joined #koha
06:58 francharb hello all
07:31 kf joined #koha
07:31 kf good morning #koha
07:47 rangi hi kf
07:48 kf hi rangi
07:53 fredericd kiritakikoha
07:56 rangi
07:56 fredericd look nice!
07:56 fredericd I'm trying to figure out how the search work
07:57 fredericd (just reading the code, I don't have Android smartphone)
07:57 kf hi fredericd
07:57 hdl joined #koha
07:57 fredericd hi kf
08:01 snail is kiritakikoha an app that runs on the smartphone, or a HTML web interface customised for smartphone based browsers?
08:01 rangi the former
08:01 rangi to do things like sync with your phones calendar etc
08:02 rangi but it involved no code change to koha to do it
08:02 sophie_m joined #koha
08:10 hdl hi all
08:10 hdl hi rangi
08:12 hdl rangi: will you be there this for the persistence meeting ? Or will I be alone with slef ?
08:14 hdl rangi: anything special about your Plack usage for circulation... It has been up and running for quite a long time now... So maybe you have some interesting statements.
08:24 kf oh, when is the meeting? I missed to put in on my calendar
08:25 hdl at 11AM
08:31 kf ah
08:32 kf will try to follow the discussion, but can't probably not add to it
08:35 hdl kf: it may be a very simple and light discussion
09:07 braedon joined #koha
09:08 braedon wow, new server
09:08 braedon when did this happen?
09:13 snail left #koha
09:30 kf braedon: the other server was down and we moved, but it is permanent now
09:33 braedon ahh
09:34 braedon i wonder when i was last here
09:34 braedon well, there...
09:34 wahanui well, there is no spoon.
09:44 kf wahanui: forget well
09:44 wahanui kf, I didn't have anything matching well
09:44 kf well?
09:44 kf well,?
09:44 kf hm.
09:46 braedon ...indeed
09:50 ColinC joined #koha
09:58 hdl hi ColinC
09:59 ColinC hi there
10:00 hdl Are you there for the meeting around data persistence ?
10:02 ColinC Yes ....
10:03 hdl #startmeeting data persistence on koha
10:03 huginn Meeting started Fri Feb 18 10:08:46 2011 UTC.  The chair is hdl. Information about MeetBot at
10:03 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
10:03 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: data persistence on koha)
10:03 hdl Hi
10:04 hdl Let's start the meeting.
10:05 hdl Is there any one for the record ?
10:05 * hdl Henri-Damien LAURENT BibLibre
10:06 * kf Katrin Fischer, BSZ - following the discussion
10:06 ColinC Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe
10:06 * fredericd Frédéric Demians, Tamil
10:06 fredericd salut Henri-Damien
10:07 hdl So 4 ...
10:07 hdl Ok.
10:08 hdl We have been playing with Plack in order to test that and achieve data performance.
10:08 hdl
10:08 hdl #link
10:09 hdl We have pushed a branch on where you can have psgi files to launch a plack server
10:10 hdl[…]s/heads/wip/Plack
10:10 hdl There is also the[…]/data_persistence
10:11 hdl data_persistence branch which contains some patches in order to manipulate C4::Context to remove the connections to zebra when they are not used any longer. at least in SimpleSearch
10:11 hdl We have been testing thet on some servers with nginx
10:12 hdl The results are quite good in terms of performance.
10:13 fredericd do you have figures?
10:14 hdl you can launch using : KOHA_CONF=/home/users/koha/site​s/univ_lyon3/etc/koha-conf.xml PERL5LIB=/home/koha/src plackup -S Starlet --workers 32 --port 5000 /local/home/users/koha/src/prod.psgi
10:15 hdl fredericd: well I had... But I donot have them right there.
10:15 hdl But you can use the file.
10:16 fredericd If I checkout wip_pack branch from, what do I need to do to get it working?
10:17 hdl it needs some tweaking of the apache configuration to have static files served directly and a reverse proxy on 5000
10:17 hdl you need to install Plack
10:17 hdl cpanm Task::Plack
10:17 hdl (you can install cpan minus for that)
10:18 hdl Task::Plack comes with 3 servers you can test
10:18 hdl plackup, starlet, and an other one.
10:18 hdl starman I think
10:19 fredericd installation in progress...
10:19 hdl The stuff is working quite well... ... But not ready for production at the moment.
10:19 hdl Because of some problems :
10:19 hdl a) Circular references in code.
10:19 hdl b) zebra search
10:20 hdl c) lack of caching in the code.
10:20 fredericd You mean that zebra search slow down if connection isn't reset regularly?
10:20 hdl yes.
10:21 hdl This is why I sent a branch datapersistence... which destroy the connection to zebra when things are over.
10:21 hdl But the fact is that when you are running with sockets, it leaves zombies on the system... So one has to kill them
10:22 hdl With tcp connection, that problem is not so hard.
10:23 hdl Since there is a tcp timeout
10:25 hdl About Circular refereences in Code, I sent some mails on list.
10:25 hdl But had very little feedback
10:26 hdl Some from ColinC quite helpful...
10:27 hdl But I would like to know if we can setup a plan on order to solve those problems and work out solutions
10:29 ColinC a hitlist of obstacles
10:29 hdl About Circular references : I think that if we could at least get the functions which adds some additional dependencies...
10:30 hdl I gave a list of some of the circular references.
10:31 hdl on the lists.
10:32 hdl i cannot find the link right now.
10:33 hdl But about zebra search, i think that the solution we proposed could be a nice option.
10:33 hdl If you could test and provide some feedback
10:34 hdl And about the lack of Caching, chris proposed the usage of Memcached
10:34 hdl And I think it is quite a good start.
10:36 hdl But this would also require to add some local variables to store the information. and not make any calls.
10:36 hdl This would be much more efficient.
10:40 ColinC not sure I followed that last part
10:42 hdl I have done some work for C4::Languages  (which still has some bug... But it was a first start... and provided a good improvements.)  and C4::Context
10:42 hdl[…]hb=bug/BLO/MT5496
10:43 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York [lost attention to the time but has read back.]
10:44 hdl[…]hb=bug/BLO/MT5496
10:46 hdl ColinC: what are you not following.
10:46 hdl Do you think I am wrong ?
10:47 ColinC I'm not sure what point you were trying to make about Memcached
10:49 hdl Memcached is not generalized in all the modules.
10:51 hdl And when you edit the thing, the old stuff sticks in Memchaced.
10:52 hdl you have to flush the cache regularly. Or to slush the cache on edits.
10:52 hdl flush... Or to edit the structure.
10:53 hdl But Memcached is not really adding much performance... unless you use for complex structures.
10:54 thd hdl: What does it mean to "edit the thing" or "edit the structure"?
10:54 hdl you cache preferences, when you edit a preference. the cache is not updated
10:55 hdl (at least with the system as it is now)
10:56 hdl You have to wait for 5 or whatever the time in the file for it to be updated correctly...
10:57 ColinC For future ref I think the Cache::Memcached interface has more fine grained api than Memoize::Memcached
10:58 thd hdl: Are the deficiencies to which you are referring deficiencies of memcached or deficiencies of the current implementation work for Koha?
10:58 ColinC hdl or both
10:59 hdl both in fact...
11:01 hdl The problem is that the edition for Memcached would have to be quite localized and centralized... in order to be easily generalised.
11:02 hdl But it would require to have some more fine grain for some other things.
11:04 hdl instance : systempreferences donot change often... but biblio change far more often
11:05 ColinC I think there is quite a bit of refactoring to be done to some code to take advantage of any caching structure
11:06 hdl Can you provide an exemple of how you see things ?
11:08 hdl or does anyone has some precise idea ?
11:08 ColinC Because the model has been cgi script based nothing has been trated as possibly living longer than the scripts runtime
11:09 ColinC s/trated/treated/
11:14 thd ColinC: What improper presumptions have been taken in consequence of that legacy design?
11:16 hdl ColinC: But is there any concrete exemple of a nice application design you have in mind ?
11:17 ColinC we have operations that intertwine updates and reads to persistent/non-persistent data
11:18 hdl Are you thinking of evergreen ?
11:18 ColinC I've used memcached in a high-throughput environment it gave many improvements but it was important to concentrate cacheing on what benefitted from it
11:21 hdl you mean to use caching only where it was really needed ?
11:21 ColinC Yes
11:22 thd ColinC: Are you suggesting that the performance improvement would be minimal for data which is used infrequently or changes often and therefore needs careful update management?
11:22 hdl thd: i think so
11:23 hdl But there are many places : branches, categories, issuingrules, systempreferences, languages, message_preferences...
11:23 hdl where it can be used.
11:24 ColinC The approach to e.g. the item and patron record in an issue transaction is different to the circ rules governing that transaction is a crude example
11:24 ColinC and what hdl said
11:26 thd ColinC: Why is having multiple data access rules especially problematic?
11:26 ColinC Its not
11:27 hdl Is there anything else to say now ?
11:28 thd ColinC: What did you mean in referring to item and patron record for issuing transactions as different from circ rules?
11:28 hdl Are you interested in playing with plack ?
11:28 hdl Are you interested in testing ?
11:28 hdl Are you interested in any of the 3 problems I listed ?
11:28 hdl Who ?
11:29 ColinC thd: the life of of the cached data differs
11:29 thd hdl: Is there a bug and patch for the Zebra connection issue?
11:33 hdl no.
11:33 hdl not yet in fact.
11:34 hdl It is something we discovered with some of our tools...
11:34 hdl But neglected to report...
11:34 hdl But this state of fact is known with zebra and yaz.
11:35 thd hdl: I see reports on the koha mailing list of people not running Zebra as a daemon.  Does that help with the issue or merely create other performance problems?
11:35 hdl I think it would not help in fact.
11:36 hdl It is owed to the z3950 protocol which is connected... And since koha initiate one connection and use that... In a data persistent model... you use always the same.
11:36 hdl And .... It ends up being very slow.
11:37 hdl ok. if noone has anything else to say... Let's end the meeting.
11:37 thd What causes the slowness for an open connection?
11:37 hdl yes...
11:38 hdl send 1000 queries to a single connection and it will slow down...
11:38 hdl and zebra will take some more memory
11:39 hdl If anyone has questions about Plack and how to test...
11:39 hdl If I can help in any way, if you have any question or if you think of any exemple... please do.
11:41 hdl #endmeeting
11:41 Topic for #koha is now Next IRC meeting 2 Mar. 2011 18:00 UTC+0 - Koha - - this channel is logged, pastes at
11:41 huginn Meeting ended Fri Feb 18 11:46:47 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
11:41 huginn Minutes:[…]-02-18-10.08.html
11:41 huginn Minutes (text):[…]1-02-18-10.08.txt
11:41 huginn Log:  […]18-10.08.log.html
11:43 nengard joined #koha
11:43 thd good morning nengard
11:44 nengard hiya thd
11:44 nengard or
11:44 nengard oh - wait i typed that right
11:44 thd :)
11:44 nengard druthb kept me up until 1am so I'm a bit dopey
11:44 thd I have been up all night
11:44 nengard wow! and :(
11:46 thd nengard: Do you have an easily obtained statistic for everyone who ranked more than one option?
11:46 nengard yes, I think so - hang on
11:46 thd I know that the number is overwhelming in any case.
11:46 nengard I only did 1 - so that's 1 :)
11:47 kf I did 2
11:47 kf ;)
11:48 thd I took two weeks to decide which I preferred and could not really decide well.
11:48 nengard 30 didn't answer any (which is silly) - and 635 only made one choice
11:50 thd I think that I may have been counted as not answering any a few times when looking at the ballot despite never pressing submit.
11:52 kf hm same here
11:53 thd nengard: Do you have an easy breakdown of those who voted only once?
11:53 * thd tries again
11:53 nengard thd i answered you ....
11:54 nengard [06:53]  <nengard> 30 didn't answer any (which is silly) - and 635 only made one choice
11:54 thd nengard: Do you have an easy list of votes of those who only listed one preference?
11:54 thd sorry for asking the question improperly previously.
11:55 nengard oh!
11:55 nengard hmmmm .. that's not easy ... not in my current state
11:55 thd :)
11:55 nengard wait ... maybe it is
11:58 nengard 31 nepal only - 6 Kolkata only - 16 UK only - the rest of the 635 did Thane only
11:59 thd Thanks nengard
11:59 nengard np
12:01 thd It might matter to some to know quantitatively that those who considered more than one choice were still overwhelmingly for Thane.
12:02 * thd wonders if whole computer science and library science classes were encouraged to vote for Thane but that still seems fine if people are taking a real interest.
12:09 * jcamins_away doesn't see any objection to that, if whole CS & LIS classes are going to show up to learn about Koha.
12:11 thd jcamins_away: That would be great.  There are certainly many people from there asking questions on the mailing list.
12:12 thd ... and on this channel
12:13 thd Imagine a legion of people setting up Koha even if merely for a class.  A few of them may well take it further than the class.
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12:23 nengard holy cow - bugzilla changed!
12:23 jwagner joined #koha
12:24 jcamins_away nengard: what?
12:24 nengard there isn't a bug there on the 'new' button
12:24 nengard it's all slick looking
12:24 jcamins_away Uhhh... yes there is?
12:24 jcamins_away, right?
12:24 nengard so cool!! it's also searching for dups as i type up my report
12:24 nengard yes
12:25 jcamins_away Oh, I see.
12:25 jcamins_away Nifty.
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12:50 nengard druthb I have finished my two installs!!
12:51 druthb they working all right, nengard?
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13:07 drulm joined #koha
13:07 NateC morning drulm!
13:07 NateC and #koha!
13:08 druthb Good morning, NateC
13:08 NateC morning druthb
13:08 nengard howdy NateC
13:08 nengard if I'm all fuzzy today you can blame druthb :)
13:08 NateC Hiya nengard
13:08 NateC heh will do ;)
13:09 druthb if I'm all fuzzy today you can blame nengard :)
13:09 * jwagner has always found it a good practice to blame druthb for everything :-)
13:09 nengard druthb broke my koha and built it back up to be even awesomer!!!
13:09 paul_p good morning americans
13:10 nengard good afternoon paul_p
13:10 jwagner Hi paul_p
13:19 druthb hi, paul_p.
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13:34 oleonard Requiring email confirmation for wiki accounts doesn't seem to have done anything to stop the spam
13:37 nengard okay I need some help
13:38 nengard how do i find the new features introduced in the patch for bug 5725 - i'm trying to test and sign off, but i can't find where to look for the new features
13:38 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5725 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Batch modifications for Biblios
13:38 nengard i applied both batches and looked in the acq baskets but i don't think that's right
13:40 kf nengard: cart perhaps?
13:40 kf I think that's how the merge works
13:40 nengard kf you're right!!!
13:41 nengard and merge works on lists - not the cart
13:41 nengard they should both work the same way
13:41 * druthb heads out to catch her bus back to DC.
13:41 kf yeah, and cart would be more handy
13:41 kf comfortabel?
13:41 kf uh
13:41 kf comfortable
13:41 druthb left #koha
13:41 kf still looks kinda wrong...
13:42 oleonard nengard: Is it working for you?
13:42 oleonard I clicked 'Batch Edit' and got a page with an empty table
13:42 nengard you have to select titles first
13:43 nengard i did get a table with records in it
13:43 nengard but i'm not seeing my changes on the marc recotd
13:43 nengard record
13:43 nengard gonna try again
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13:44 nengard holy cow that is so cool!
13:44 nengard it works
13:44 nengard I think it needs a bit of the oleonard touch on design, but it works
13:44 oleonard Not working for me: "Can't use string ("batchedit") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at C4/ line 1559."
13:44 nengard strange
13:44 nengard mine is a new install if that means anything
13:45 nengard did you apply both patches?
13:45 oleonard Yes
13:45 nengard hmmm
13:46 oleonard Looks like you have to be a superlibrarian
13:48 nengard oh!
13:48 nengard can you update bug 5725 with that info?
13:48 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5725 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED, Batch modifications for Biblios
13:48 nengard i have added my notes
13:49 oleonard nengard: What did you try to modify?
13:51 nengard i added in an 050 subfield a
13:52 oleonard nengard: I wonder if my installation didn't get the proper update in order to have a new "batchedit" permission?
13:52 nengard i'm logged in a superlibrarian
13:53 nengard i'll go ahead and try with only the edit permissions
13:55 oleonard Hmmm, no I see the batchedit permission in my database
13:55 nengard i don't have that either - but the patch doesn't say it adds a new permission
13:55 oleonard ...and it's checked in my permissions setup
13:55 nengard oh
13:55 nengard under what?
13:56 oleonard At first I thought it would be under cataloging, but it's under tools
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13:56 nengard under tools i have items_batchmod
13:56 nengard but not batchedit
13:57 oleonard I ought to trash this database and start over... I'm not good about keeping it "clean" when testing
13:58 nengard :)
13:58 nengard paul_p can you take a look at questions on bug 5725
13:58 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5725 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED, Batch modifications for Biblios
13:58 kf only a thought: but do we need different permissions for items_batchedit and biblio_batchedit?
13:59 nengard i think we do
13:59 nengard but right now we don't have one
14:00 nengard i'd argue that if you're allowed to edit the catalog then you should be able to do batch edits ... but others might disagree
14:01 * oleonard does
14:01 oleonard A batch edit is potentially much more destructive
14:01 oleonard No reason not to include a separate permission and let the supervisor decide.
14:05 oleonard nengard: I'll bet the batchedit permission didn't make it into the patch because of the way rangi is putting together the patches
14:06 oleonard He probably didn't cherry-pick that part (if cherry pick is the right word here)
14:06 nengard so there is a permission in another patch?
14:06 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
14:08 oleonard Yes, I see it in the original Biblibre branch
14:08 oleonard That must be why I have it... messy database.
14:08 oleonard But that doesn't explain why it didn't work for me even though that permission was there
14:16 oleonard It seems strange that someone could have batch edit permission and not catalog edit permission
14:25 sekjal I'd agree that if you can edit in batch, you should be able to edit individually
14:29 kf so it should be grouped into the cataloging rights?
14:32 oleonard How deep can the permissions hierarchy go? Right now we only have two levels
14:32 oleonard Theoretically you'd want "batchedit" to be a sub-permission of "edit_catalogue" (not "editcatalog," the parent category)
14:34 kf oleonard: perhaps even the batch item delete/modify should moved to cataloging?
14:34 kf i think they are under tools, because we have no cataloging start page?
14:34 paul_p nengard, seen you msg. Could you drop me a mail pls, i'll forget...
14:34 nengard okey dokey
14:35 oleonard kf: I think so. I think that grouping reflects where to find the tool in Koha, but really the permissions should reflect roles
14:35 kf hm. I think we only have kind of a start page for circ and tools?
14:35 kf perhaps we should think about that too - tools gets crowdy
14:35 kf crowded?
14:35 oleonard Crowded.
14:35 nengard I don't mind where the batch edit is located - it is a tool - but the permissions should be in the logical spots
14:37 jcamins Oof. Finding unused ranges of barcodes is way less trivial than I expected.
14:38 nengard that sounds painful
14:39 jcamins Is there any way to tell Koha "this is not a fuzzy search term"?
14:40 kf not one I know of
14:40 drulm Bulk bib editing happening now? Cool if so. Be cool if the the book club thing were added in and thirdly the fines partial payment stuff. :)
14:40 nengard ha! that's a lot of different things all at once
14:40 nengard :)
14:41 sekjal partial payments has been green-lighted
14:41 wizzyrea YAY
14:41 wizzyrea we never got the book club thing to work
14:42 oleonard drulm: We're working on getting Biblibre's batch biblio edit feature polished
14:42 oleonard Is the book club thing a PTFS feature?
14:42 wizzyrea *nod*
14:43 wizzyrea (we wanted something like it, though. It'd be a nice feature to have)
14:43 pastebot0 "jcamins" at pasted "How to find contiguous unused barcodes" (6 lines) at
14:43 jcamins ^^ in case anyone was curious.
14:43 wizzyrea oh lawd
14:43 wizzyrea you poor thing
14:43 jcamins Ooh, I should put it on the Wiki.
14:43 oleonard drulm: No one is working on integrating the book club. Perhaps PTFS could hire a Koha developer to help get it working in Koha.
14:44 nengard jcamins i was gonna say that
14:45 jcamins Has anyone noticed that I write the weirdest reports?
14:45 nengard :)
14:45 nengard the wierd ones are very useful
14:45 jcamins I am placing it immediately after my "validate Codabar barcodes" report.
14:45 oleonard Oh, Bugzilla upgrade.
14:45 oleonard Gotta learn the new advanced search now.
14:46 kf uh
14:46 jcamins The wiki page is broken again.
14:46 jcamins Help!
14:46 nengard new advanced search?
14:46 jcamins Wait, never mind.
14:46 jcamins I'm not logged in.
14:46 oleonard nengard:[…]i?format=advanced
14:46 kf the simple search field has an inline style :(
14:46 kf if you call it that, a style attribute
14:46 kf that defines the sitze
14:46 kf size
14:46 nengard yikes!!
14:47 nengard jcamins did druthb keep you up late too?
14:47 jcamins nengard: no, just a migraine. :(
14:48 nengard oh yeah - that's worse
14:49 drulm Thanks got it. Is the code out there for the book club somewhere?
14:49 oleonard drulm: In PTFS's Harley release I suppose?
14:49 nengard drulm Bug 4245
14:49 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4245 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, jwagner, NEW, Bestseller's Club and email notifications
14:50 oleonard nengard beat me to it
14:50 drulm Wacky. Well, it has got to be based on biblionumber and itemnumber so probably pretty easy to jam in there
14:50 drulm So there is a patch for 3.4, not just Harley, that would be nice.
14:50 oleonard There is no patch for 3.4, just Harley.
14:51 * jwagner pops in from meet ing -- did I get flagged on something?
14:51 drulm Also rooting for partial fine payment and or no fines until item is returned.
14:51 oleonard jwagner: drulm was asking about bug 4245
14:51 drulm oleonard: Ah got it.
14:52 drulm If I have time I may end up incorporating it (if someone does not beat me to it) - since staff wants it.  Yet another project on the pile.
14:52 jwagner Bestsellers' Club? yes, the main thing is a Harley branch
14:52 jwagner I think we've done a couple of tweaks that haven't been submitted yet.
14:53 hdl hi jwagner
14:53 hdl and all
14:53 drulm We are running SMS/TXT notifications and smart-phone barcodes for patron IDs
14:53 paul_p nengard, thx for the mail ;-)
14:53 nengard :)
14:53 oleonard jwagner: I'm not aware of any updates to Harley which have been made public
14:53 jwagner hi hdl
14:54 jwagner oleonard, we haven't put that fix out yet -- still testing it.
14:54 jcamins Does Koha time out reports?
14:54 wizzyrea apache sometimes times out reports
14:54 jcamins Drat.
14:55 * wizzyrea often wishes for background report processing
14:55 * jcamins , too
14:55 wizzyrea there's a mechanism for background processing on the offline circ upload
14:56 wizzyrea (I could also be full of poo on that)
14:56 sekjal there is a background processing module in Koha
14:56 sekjal it's just not applied to everything yet
14:56 wizzyrea ooo
14:56 wizzyrea reports next!
14:56 wizzyrea :)
14:56 sekjal we've talked about allowing the library to specify a read-only mirror database for running reports against
14:57 sekjal that DB could then be optimized for reading (tons of indexes)
14:57 hdl wizzyrea: there is a cronjob for reports.
14:57 hdl that could be used.
14:59 hdl I would not put my word on background jobbing all the scripts... Since it is a real pain to debug onwards.
14:59 hdl (all the lengthy scripts in fact... such as reports, overdues and so on...)
15:00 jcamins hdl: there would have to be a button you could click that said "please run this report in the background."
15:00 jcamins And also a button that said "please run this report in the foreground."
15:00 wizzyrea oh oh
15:00 wizzyrea or
15:01 hdl jcamins: as things are coded now... one can dream of it or recode the whole stuff.
15:01 wizzyrea if a report foregrounds for x seconds, to avoid timeout it should ask if you would like it to be backgrounded
15:01 jcamins hdl: yes, I know.
15:01 * wizzyrea dreams big dreams
15:01 hdl So do I ... node.js
15:02 wizzyrea :)
15:02 jcamins "Oh what a dream, a wonderful dream. And all that I need is eighty-eight bucks."
15:02 hdl Could be done with enough ajax...
15:02 hdl maybe.
15:03 wizzyrea ok here's something I've wondered about
15:03 wizzyrea if you try to run a huge report
15:03 wizzyrea and apache times out, what happens to the mysql query? It completes and dumps the data?
15:03 wizzyrea keeps going?
15:04 hdl show me a man unfilled with foolish dreams... and i will show you a happy man.... Tenisson
15:04 hdl But only with dreams a man can be truly free it was alwas thus and always thus will be..
15:04 jcamins wizzyrea: oh, yeah, that's fun.
15:04 jcamins As far as I can tell, it just keeps grinding on.
15:04 hdl it keeps going
15:04 wizzyrea ok thanks, that's what I thought happened
15:05 jcamins And to make it worse, lots of times what it's doing is transferring the data. The client has to receive *all* the data before any is sent to Apache.
15:05 wizzyrea right it can't stream partial results
15:07 * jcamins sometimes misses doing all his DB interfacing in C.
15:10 wizzyrea owen: regarding the calendar: doo eet.
15:10 jcamins Argh!
15:10 jcamins My query doesn't work with Codabar barcodes.
15:12 drulm prob no time submit the SMS/TXT stuff either. A email gateway is needed for the SMS.
15:13 wizzyrea ? I"m not sure what you mean drulm?
15:14 drulm Oh we are running SMS messages on cell phones to alert patrons who opt in on an Opac form. Then they get hold, overdue, pre-overdue on their phones.
15:14 wizzyrea ok, are you saying you don't have time to submit it?
15:14 drulm Also have an option for patrons to have their card barcode on their cell phone (in the opac).
15:15 drulm wizzyrea: Oh heck no. I don't have time to breathe there are so many routine things to do here :)
15:15 wizzyrea (no better time than the present)
15:15 wizzyrea is the code at least public?
15:15 drulm It may all be moot soon enough.
15:15 wizzyrea never moot.
15:16 drulm Nope, not public. I have time to submit rarely. It's OK, it is the way of things.
15:16 jcamins drulm: you can set up a GitHub account easily.
15:16 wizzyrea ^^
15:16 jcamins Or Gitorious.
15:16 jcamins rangi prefers Gitorious.
15:16 wizzyrea i imagine if you asked for help here you'd probably get it
15:16 drulm True. Good point. Well, perhaps I will do that once we upgrade to 3.4
15:17 wizzyrea lots of people want working sms
15:17 drulm OK, gotta go, thanks!
15:17 drulm left #koha
15:20 kf all our installations on 3.2.x now!
15:20 kf yay!
15:20 wizzyrea yay!
15:20 * wizzyrea throws the confetti and commences the party
15:21 kf updated our biggst one today with icu and self check
15:22 sekjal kf:  huzzah!
15:22 kf hehe thx
15:23 kf we were a bit worried about the self check, but so far everything fine
15:23 kf sekjal: they have hebrew and I never got complains about it not working
15:23 kf sekjal: not sure if we changed something to make it work, but it does
15:24 sekjal kf:  I'm learning that disabling error-detection in the SIPconfig.xml fixes the problem pretty well
15:24 sekjal Koha needs a new SIP checksum algorithm
15:27 * sekjal just got Rickrolled on
15:28 wizzyrea teehee
15:28 oleonard It's not a Rickrolling if science determined you should hear it ;)
15:28 wizzyrea i.e. science just rickrolled you
15:28 sekjal I just don't see the connection on Florence and the Machine radio...
15:29 wizzyrea some nerd from MIT just rickrolled you
15:30 gmcharlt people still get rickrolled?  that's so 2009! ;)
15:30 * wizzyrea notes for the record that nerds from MIT are awesome
15:30 wizzyrea ^.^
15:31 sekjal and now it's Ashley Simpson... something is wrong here
15:31 wizzyrea it's science gone mad!
15:31 Brooke_ joined #koha
15:31 oleonard Your preferences have been contaminated! The only choice is to nuke it from orbit!
15:32 Brooke_ aloha
15:32 sekjal done
15:32 sekjal this is why I prefer Pandora (that, and less buggy Flash)
15:40 jcamins Slip printing. Which browser is it that it works best in?
15:41 jcamins Did Bugzilla just go down?
15:41 Brooke_ any given proper configuration I thought
15:41 tcohen hdl: do u remember when writing AuthoritiesMarc::DelAuthority?
15:41 * Brooke_ was an olde fashioned stamper though.
15:43 jcamins Brooke_: I recall there being some issue with certain browsers not cooperating with the lousy print drivers that come with receipt printers.
15:43 tcohen i was wondering if we'd have some checks there
15:49 hdl tcohen: remember what ?
15:49 wizzyrea slips work pretty well in firefox
15:50 * wizzyrea admits not trying it yet with chrome
15:50 hudsonbot left #koha
15:50 wizzyrea oh that's not a good sign
15:51 wizzyrea bugzilla and hudson are on the same server I think
15:51 jcamins Well, at least I'm not crazy.
15:51 nengard left #koha
15:51 jcamins Nicole is not, though.
15:51 jcamins :)
15:52 oleonard Too many people have met nengard for her to be a bot
15:53 Brooke_ but how are you telling the people apart from bots?
15:53 jcamins Brooke_: eating is a give-away. In order to save money, most bots don't eat. ;)
15:54 gmcharlt Brooke_: see how they respond when you feed them a botsnack
15:54 gmcharlt Brooke_: botsnack
15:54 Brooke_ thanks gmcharlt! :)
15:55 oleonard Brooke_: Bug 5768
15:55 Brooke_[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5768
15:55 wahanui left #koha
15:55 oleonard Hmmm... pretty slow for a bot
15:55 wizzyrea oh, bz bored
15:56 kf huginn botsnack
15:56 wizzyrea borked even
15:56 huginn kf: downloading the Perl source
15:56 Brooke_ maybe my latency is just high, oleonard.
15:56 wizzyrea there goes ibot too
15:56 wizzyrea he's on same server as bz irrc
15:56 wizzyrea iirc wow I am having troubles
15:57 pastebot0 left #koha
15:57 Brooke_ general strike!
15:58 gmcharlt the VPS that bugs et al is running on appears to be entirely inaccesible, so I assume network or server issues at Linode
15:58 wizzyrea oh there they all go
15:59 oleonard They're all being absorbed into Watson's collective.
16:00 atz booo
16:00 Brooke_ it's not their fault they were offered good posts.
16:01 wahanui joined #koha
16:01 wizzyrea botsnack wahanui
16:01 Barc joined #koha
16:01 wizzyrea wahanui: botsnack
16:01 wahanui :)
16:01 wizzyrea he's still not quite right
16:01 wizzyrea oh there he is
16:01 jcamins wahanui: botsnack sourdough bread
16:01 wahanui :)
16:01 Brooke_ see, I told you there was bot latency :P
16:02 wizzyrea hehe
16:02 Barc I am back with this error when searching for a borrower:#
16:02 Barc Can't use an undefined value as a HASH reference at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/members/ line 113
16:03 Barc If I uncomment line 113 I get the borrower listing screen in admin but everyones cat shows "( )". There are no nulls in borrowers tables for categories. Any ideas?
16:03 brendan_ joined #koha
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16:27 Barc left #koha
16:28 * Brooke_ desperately hopes she doesn't unintentionally lure an unsuspecting developer to her house with the smell of this stuff...
16:28 jcamins Brooke_: what?
16:29 Brooke_ if I had some frangelico...
16:29 Brooke_ http://lesttheybelost.blogspot[…]-anzac-slice.html
16:29 wizzyrea oh my
16:32 wizzyrea you really can't go wrong with coconut, caramel, and rolled oats
16:32 rhcl_away sugar, butter, sweetened milk, coconut, golden syrup, brown sugar...
16:32 rhcl_away now why exactly are _organic_ oats worth it?
16:32 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
16:32 Brooke_ you don't know?!
16:32 wizzyrea spud got some play food the other day that included an eggplant
16:32 Brooke_ tsc
16:32 wizzyrea he calls it an "eggplanet"
16:32 wizzyrea and "eggplanet ice cream" to be exact
16:32 wizzyrea no clue.
16:33 wizzyrea and this concludes today's "things spud says" installment
16:34 * oleonard Tivos that whole series
16:36 francharb left #koha
16:41 Brooke_ back
16:42 Brooke_ organic oats are worth it if you can find them since they could in theory stand on their own as an ingredient
16:42 Brooke_ no nasty chemical taste to em
16:42 Brooke_ nor are they crumbly little pluckers
16:53 rhcl With all the ingredients I extracted and enumerated above I can't possibly imagine that anyone could taste the difference.
16:54 nengard joined #koha
16:55 paul_p 6PM and still sun light outside... spring coming... /me happy !
16:59 Brooke_ streusel, take your own risks laddy
17:00 oleonard Anyone know why I would get this error when running "DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Lock wait timeout exceeded;"
17:02 paul_p oleonard, wow... is your server doing a lot of other things ? it usually means a mySQL query has locked some tables/rows, and rebuild_zebra has waited too long for the lock to be removed
17:02 jcamins oleonard: two running on zebraqueue simultaneously.
17:10 pastebot0 left #koha
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17:12 paul_p bye bye #koha ! good week end everybody !
17:12 paul_p left #koha
17:12 wizzyrea bon... o bother
17:13 wahanui joined #koha
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17:36 nengard is now known as nengard_lunch
17:40 oleonard is now known as oleonard-away
17:41 jcamins Does Koha need the mail server to be listening on port 25?
17:41 hdl left #koha
17:42 cait joined #koha
17:44 Ahmuck joined #koha
17:44 cait hi #koha
17:47 rhcl hi cait
17:47 rhcl is now known as rhcl_brb
17:47 rhcl_brb left #koha
17:53 * Brooke_ waves to Cait :D
17:56 wizzyrea afk lunch
17:56 wizzyrea is now known as wizzy-lunch
18:00 cait hi Brooke
18:03 Brooke_ left #koha
18:05 sekjal how would one make Koha default to the Title Notes tab on, rather than Holdings?
18:05 nengard_lunch is now known as nengard
18:05 jcamins sekjal: there's a syspref.
18:05 jcamins Let me find it.
18:06 jcamins I thought there was, anyway.
18:07 jcamins Oh, no, it's only for Serials.
18:07 jcamins opacSerialDefaultTab.
18:08 jcamins Apparently that syspref isn't actuall defined.
18:09 jcamins *actually
18:09 sekjal wouldn't be too hard to add.  the page tests for defaulttab = 'something'
18:09 jcamins Right.
18:09 sekjal (didn't know H::T could do that)
18:10 jcamins sekjal: yeah, defaulttab is set in Perl.
18:21 Ropuch left #koha
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19:11 cait left #koha
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19:33 nengard left #koha
19:41 oleonard-away is now known as oleonard
20:26 druthb joined #koha
20:26 druthb Good afternoon, #koha.
20:27 oleonard Shhhhh, everyone is napping!
20:29 * druthb gets her pillow and blanket and KinderMat down off the shelf, and gets ready for a snooze.
20:30 * jcamins waves to druthb
20:30 * druthb waves back to jcamins.
20:32 * jcamins rescues his cat from the sticky bug catcher thing
20:32 brendan_ joined #koha
20:37 * jcamins 's cat is impressively chastened. Apparently sticky bug catcher things are more effective than scolding.
20:40 jwagner left #koha
20:46 * oleonard is pleased that the switch to the jqueryUI date picker will result in a net reduction in lines of javascript in Koha
20:53 sekjal happy weekend, #koha!
20:53 sekjal left #koha
20:57 jcamins Time to go cook and clean for our dinner guests. I'll be back for a bit, later.
20:58 * druthb is gonna step away for a bit too.  back later this evening.
20:58 druthb left #koha
21:07 bg oleonard++ less lines of javascript has got to be a win somewhere
21:15 NateC left #koha
21:17 bg @wunder 93109
21:17 huginn bg: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 11.5�C (1:22 PM PST on February 18, 2011). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Falling). Wind Advisory in effect from 9 am this morning to 8 PM PST this evening...
21:18 bg light rain - ha
21:22 oleonard left #koha
21:58 hdl joined #koha
21:58 bg hi hdl
22:09 jcamins is now known as jcamins_away
22:11 braedon @wunder auckland
22:11 huginn braedon: The current temperature in Auckland, New Zealand is 21.0�C (11:00 AM NZDT on February 19, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
22:38 NateC joined #koha
22:40 hdl hi bg
22:41 hdl good night
22:45 theartful joined #koha
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