IRC log for #koha, 2009-10-27

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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00:57 chris_n2 g'night
00:57 chris night
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02:18 chris @quote random
02:18 munin` chris: Quote #39: "chris <chris> nope, ive made it my aim in life not to learn js or html" (added by ricardo at 06:00 PM, October 07, 2009)
02:18 chris it's all true
02:18 pianohacker so true
02:19 pianohacker I continue to question your judgment in finding perl measurably better js than js, but it is true :)
02:19 chris heh
02:19 pianohacker gah, grammar *sigh*
02:19 pianohacker should not be talking this late
02:20 pianohacker how are you?
02:20 chris good, had a long weekend so that was fun
02:20 chris and glad the vote is all finished, even if people are making it more complex than it needs to be :)
02:21 pianohacker "this arbitrarily complex math gives the exact same result as a straight reading of the results, but what the heck!"
02:21 chris hehe yeah
02:22 pianohacker that's right, it was labor day monday
02:23 chris yes indeed
02:23 chris nice weather for all 3 days too
02:23 pianohacker do anything special, or just relax?
02:23 pianohacker (blah, cold and snowy here)
02:23 chris took kahu to the football(soccer) on sunday that was fun
02:24 pianohacker cool
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03:03 brendan evening
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03:08 Mehwish Hello Every one.
03:09 Mehwish Can anyone give me answers of a few questions regarding my Koha problems?
03:09 brendan I can try
03:09 Mehwish OK Thanks a lot..
03:10 Mehwish I have upgraded my Koha from 3.02 to 3.04
03:10 Mehwish now errors errors and only errors..
03:10 Mehwish Problem is that I am sure I forgot to install some perl modules..
03:11 Mehwish how can I veryfiy which modules are installed??
03:12 Mehwish another now If I install those missing modules will it start working..??
03:13 Mehwish I think not..I think I have to run make , make test and make install commands again after I install modules..
03:13 Mehwish am I right or not?
03:13 Mehwish just guide me where to start from?
03:14 brendan I think you're on the right path
03:14 chris nope you dont have to run those commands again
03:14 brendan go ahead and install the missing perl modules
03:14 chris if it is missing modules
03:14 Mehwish I think I forgot to follow this step from my guide..
03:14 chris then the apache error logs will be telling you so
03:14 Mehwish sudo aptitude install \     liblingua-stem-perl libxml-sax-machines-perl libmarc-record-perl libcgi-session-perl \     libdate-pcalc-perl libdate-ical-perl libdate-manip-perl liblist-moreutils-perl \     libmarc-charset-perl libmarc-xml-perl libnet-ldap-server-perl libpdf-report-perl \     libpdf-reuse-barcode-perl libxml-csv-perl libtext-csv-perl libtext-iconv-perl \     libxml-dumper-perl libxml-libxml-common-perl libxml-filter
03:15 Mehwish now these are a lot of modules and all are important..
03:15 chris 99% of those were in 3.0.2
03:15 chris basically what you need to do is check the apache error logs, the main one in /var/log/apache2
03:15 chris and the koha ones
03:16 chris that will tell you the actual error
03:16 chris can you have a look at those now?
03:16 chris eg sudo tail -20 /var/log/apache2/error.log
03:17 Mehwish I think errors are same as of my koha web installer..
03:18 Mehwish wait
03:18 chris if its something like this
03:18 Mehwish when i type i get following.
03:18 chris Can't locate UNIVERSAL/ in @INC (@INC
03:18 chris then its a missing module
03:18 Mehwish Can't locate in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/share/koha/lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 31. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 31. Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 25. BEGIN
03:18 chris thats it, so you are missing the yaml module
03:19 Mehwish yes exactly what u are telling..
03:19 Mehwish [Mon Oct 26 00:32:56 2009] [error] [client] File does not exist: /var/www/HNAP1 [Mon Oct 26 00:33:00 2009] [error] [client] File does not exist: /var/www/TEADevInfo [Mon Oct 26 00:33:03 2009] [error] [client] File does not exist: /var/www/HNAP1 [Mon Oct 26 00:47:16 2009] [error] [client] File does not exist: /var/www/HNAP1 [Mon Oct 26 00:47:19 2009] [error] [client]
03:19 chris sudo apt-get install libyaml-perl
03:19 Mehwish and this is my error log
03:20 chris yeah those errors dont look related to koha at all, but the missing YAML one is
03:20 chris so if you do that apt-get
03:20 chris then try again see what error you get next
03:21 Mehwish OK
03:23 Mehwish OK now only one error I see..
03:23 Mehwish Can't locate IPC/ in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/share/koha/lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cg​i-bin/installer/ line 15. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cg​i-bin/installer/ line 15.
03:24 chris cool
03:24 chris lemme check if there is a package for that
03:24 Mehwish OK
03:24 chris nope
03:24 chris so
03:24 chris sudo CPAN IPC::Cmd
03:26 Mehwish OK let me try that
03:42 Mehwish plz Chris help me.. Shall I write this in CPAN shell "install CPAN IPC::Cmd"?
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03:43 chris nope
03:43 Mehwish or only this "install IPC::Cmd"
03:43 chris that one, but you shouldnt be in a  CPAN shell, if you typed the command i typed above,
03:43 chris but if you are in a cpan shell, then install IPC::Cmd
03:44 Mehwish OK
04:04 Mehwish I have got success...
04:04 Mehwish now it is showing ligin screen..
04:07 Mehwish now I am getting error as Web Installer tried to update database ..
04:08 Mehwish *  [Mon Oct 26 21:04:18 2009] DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate entry 'AllowRenewalLimitOverride' for key 1 at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/inst​aller/data/mysql/ line 416.     * [Mon Oct 26 21:04:19 2009] DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate key name 'issn' at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/inst​aller/data/mysql/ line 443.     * [Mon Oct 26 21:0
04:10 Mehwish Now What Should I do??
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05:45 brendan evening
05:46 pianohacker good evening
05:46 pianohacker fairly typical for me, but later than I usually see you :)
05:46 irma hi all
05:46 pianohacker hello
05:49 irma I am writing a short article about Koha and find myself stuck ... I wish to include the link to the Koha 3.0.4 download but wish not to explain why it's @[…]-koha-version-304 .... any suggestions?
05:49 brendan hey pianohacker
05:49 brendan hey irma
05:49 irma It's an "Introduction to Koha" type of article...
05:50 irma g'day Brendan
05:50 irma g'day pianohacker
05:51 pianohacker even if you don't want to excoriate liblime, you could simply mention that the project has had a few minor difficulties with getting a working download up
05:51 brendan maybe something like "due to complications with site permissions - the download link wasn't able to make it's appearance on the correct spot"
05:52 * pianohacker is tempted to change nick to mate, if you're going to greet us like that
05:53 irma .. currently hijacked???
05:55 brendan currently hijacked I believe is the lastest news
05:55 irma what ever I say counteracts all the positives I have said about Koha somewhat...
05:55 chris well the file is at
05:55 chris now
05:55 brendan cool
05:56 chris but neither the RM or release maintainer have access to put them there, they have to wait for someone from liblime to do it
05:56 irma phew that is good progress and timing for me
05:56 chris well its not really progress at all, but at least the file there the _fixed one
05:56 chris is current
05:57 chris it means that you can just not mention the fact that the 2 people who should have access dont
05:57 irma oh.. sorry. Being too positive here. I thought you might be the bearer of goods news that the RM had regainined access !!!
05:58 chris no
05:58 irma But thanks Chris for your news. I shall just link to in the article
05:59 chris there is no sign that they will, as the current story is since liblime has stuff on that box too its too dangerous
05:59 chris which means that needs to move somewhere where that isnt the case
06:00 chris but that would mean liblime engaging with the community, which i give a .0001% chance of happening
06:01 irma HLT as 1st choice in the survey is great. New possibilities ....
06:02 chris well not really :)
06:02 * chris is full of pessimism :)
06:03 chris i cant see liblime handing over their community property
06:03 pianohacker you're a pessimist? really?
06:03 chris but it will be an opportunity for some finality
06:04 chris as when they dont, we can finally move on
06:04 pianohacker yeah, definitely resting on Jo and kado's shoulders at this point
06:04 brendan anyone ask you for a translation for the message you sent to the mailing list in maori
06:05 chris wizzyrea did
06:05 chris basically it was
06:05 chris "why would we choose one of those, were you joking?"
06:05 pianohacker what could we do to move on? (I ask, as a bright eyed youngster who is getting thoroughly tired of software politics)
06:06 brendan wizzyrea++
06:06 chris pick a domain name, put the site there, and get on with our lives
06:06 brendan I choose -- koha"is"
06:06 chris its not ideal, there are lots of links to the domains
06:07 pianohacker would ownership of the trademark if not the active domain cause troubles in the future?
06:07 chris but it would allow us to be able to go back to being able to actually do things like put up links to the latest release, and put the latest release up etc
06:08 pianohacker brendan: quotation marks and everything, like the toys'r'us logo?
06:08 brendan the thing with a trademark -- is that it costs a lot of money to inforce a trademark
06:08 chris i dont think even liblime are crazy enough to try and enforce the trademark
06:08 chris against the community
06:08 brendan I mean a lot of money to get into that battle
06:08 pianohacker makes sense
06:08 chris if they think they are getting bad press now, think about what would happen if they did that
06:09 irma Sorry for interrupting but what is the link to the libraries currently using Koha? Thank you...
06:09 pianohacker SCO is a wonderful example of how truly _that_ can blow up in your face, yes
06:09 brendan I put the quotes in because "is" isn't strong enough in my mind -- needs an equal sign, probably
06:09 chris yeah
06:10 brendan
06:10 chris irma: marshall breedings libwebcat is the  best one
06:10 chris
06:11 pianohacker irma: depends on what you want; libwebcats is indeed good, though it has koha under several categories depending on vendor
06:11 irma Chris: thanks
06:11 * chris has to go play with my son before bed, bbiab
06:11 pianohacker is perhaps a bit prettier, though not as complete
06:11 pianohacker see ya, chris
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06:25 brendan oh man -- we lost munin
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06:39 irma pianohacker, brendan & chris: thanks for the links and help ... ciao.
06:39 pianohacker np, good night
06:39 brendan later irma
06:42 thd chris: has the moon gone to sleep?
06:50 pianohacker good night, all
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06:53 chris back
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06:56 chris thd: yep all the kids in bed
06:57 Ropuch Morning #koha
06:58 thd good morning Ropuch
06:59 thd chris: Why would circulation be using XML?
07:00 chris because the item data is in the marc
07:01 chris so it parses the xml, then it needs to update it also
07:01 chris marc_xml on biblioitems
07:02 chris basically its a flawed implementation, the idea always was that the item table was the canonical place for item data
07:02 thd kados had told me that there had been an agreement that the SQL tables would be primary for items data and that storing the data in MARC would be secondary
07:02 chris yes there was
07:02 chris but that isnt the way it got written
07:03 chris basically cos of zebra
07:03 chris and the script
07:03 thd Well I understood that early experiments had found no significant performance problem with using XML for circulation
07:04 chris must have been fairly flawed expirements :)
07:04 chris some simple profiling shows that parsing the xml is the most time consuming part of the circulation code
07:04 thd I think the expectation had been that it could never work
07:05 thd The fact that it was possible in real time led to it being considered a good choice
07:05 thd Later there was a change of view but perhaps then no one rewrote that code
07:06 chris it was never considered a good idea by a lot of people
07:06 chris myself and hdl included
07:06 chris i was unaware that the idea that the itemdata be stored in the sql table had been dropped until after the fact
07:07 chris it wasnt until i was getting complaints that it was slow, that i did profiling (as did hdl) to find out where the slowness was
07:07 chris hence fixing it for 3.4
07:08 thd XML code does not seem to be directly included in
07:11 chris my $biblio = GetBiblioFromItemNumber($item->{itemnumber});
07:12 thd that is calling ?
07:14 chris C4::Biblio
07:14 chris the big one is actually ModItem, in
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07:14 chris which does things like
07:14 chris my $new_item_marc = _marc_from_item_hash($whole_item, $frameworkcode, $unlinked_item_subfields)                           or die "FAILED _marc_from_item_hash($whole_item, $frameworkcode)";
07:14 chris and
07:15 chris _replace_item_field_in_biblio($new_item_marc, $biblionumber, $itemnumber, $frameworkcode);
07:16 chris which in turn does
07:16 chris $completeRecord->append_fields($itemField);
07:16 chris }
07:16 chris
07:16 chris # save the record
07:16 chris ModBiblioMarc($completeRecord, $biblionumber, $frameworkcode);
07:16 chris so a bunch of mucking round with marc objects and parsing them to and from xml
07:17 thd There is still value in having holdings data in MARC, although, it need not be real time circulation information.
07:18 chris yep, doing it in real time while issuing and returning is the bad bit, not the storing it in xml
07:19 thd Holdings data at least of long term value would be better in separate holdings records than in the bibliographic record.
07:19 chris yes, and it should be in a format that is super fast to update
07:20 thd It should be possible to give a separate bar code for every issue of a periodical for years without concern about breaking the MARC limits.
07:20 thd ...for maximum MARC record size.
07:21 chris basically im more concerned about making circulation fast than i am about MARC, since customers complain loudly when they have to wait in line
07:21 chris and complaining customers = less funding = libraries closing
07:21 thd yes exactly
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07:22 thd good morning nicomo
07:22 chris hi nicomo
07:22 nicomo hi thd and chris and #koha
07:22 brendan heya nicomo
07:22 thd chris: can this statement from be true?
07:23 thd # 'available' is defined as (items.onloan is NULL) and (items.itemlost = 0)
07:23 brendan thd -- I thought that marcxml limit wasn't any greater than MARC limit
07:23 brendan IIRC
07:23 chris brendan: yep it is, the iso2709 standard has a size limit .. marcxml doesnt
07:23 thd brendan: There should be no MARCXML limit.
07:23 brendan right thanks
07:24 chris thd: hmmm no that isnt right i dont think, i think there are more conditions than those 2
07:24 thd brendan: the problem is that MARC::File:XML calls MARC::Record to do the real work instead of some XML parser.
07:25 thd chris: yes so that comment must be an old one which was never corrected
07:33 thd chris: Does items.withdrawn mean removed from the collection or is it a synonym for items.onloan?
07:34 chris nope it means removed from collection
07:35 thd that is what I had thought
07:36 thd I do find other uses of the word withdrawn to mean issued as a loan but without referring to items.withdrawn
07:36 thd or at least I hope they were not referring to items.withdrawn
07:37 chris :)
07:38 thd Does items.damaged also imply not available instead of merely damage noted?
07:39 chris yes
07:40 thd Items.damaged implies being repaired or held for safekeeping as too fragile?
07:40 chris either of those, shouldnt be able to be circulated though
07:41 chris im unsure any of these are used in the current code, i have to do an audit
07:41 thd There are some checks for them
07:42 thd The librarian can change the flag by simply editing the item.
07:42 chris cool
07:42 magnusenger chris, thd: these are the kinds of questions i was pondering while i did my first migration recently. I think different libraries would interpret these things differently. i definitely felt a need for some definitions and rules, especially since its difficult to know how the code treats these values
07:43 chris i used to know exactly how they all worked, but not anymore, i need to read the code to find out
07:44 thd magnusenger: I assumed that I knew the answers but I have wondered.
07:44 chris in the olden days, if any of those flags were set, they couldnt be issued
07:44 chris i hope that is still the case
07:45 thd magnusenger: I had not had time to answer some of your questions about bibliographic frameworks on the koha-devel list
07:45 magnusenger thd: made me wonder too! :-)
07:46 magnusenger thd: i forgot the questions... ;-)
07:46 thd magnusenger: all those values are mapped to a presumed subfield name corresponding to MARC 21 usage where available in MARC 21 frameworks.  Yet I had never looked at some of the corresponding code
07:46 hdl_laptop hi chris
07:47 chris hi hdl_laptop
07:47 chris did you see my proposal for 3.4 hdl_laptop ?
07:48 thd chris ++ for proposal
07:48 hdl_laptop irma around ?
07:49 magnusenger there is some info about the 952 fields here:[…]ds-data-migration
07:49 chris she has gone hdl_laptop
07:50 thd magnusenger: why is it that Norwegian libraries catalogue DVDs as books in the NORMARC leader?
07:50 magnusenger thd: i don't think they are supposed to?
07:51 thd magnusenger: yes but my research shows that to be the prevalent case
07:51 magnusenger thd: i think some ILSs might "forget" the leader in favour of our "very own" 019$b, which encodes format
07:52 thd magnusenger: really, did I miss that in the NORMARC documentation?
07:52 magnusenger thd: I have also seen that the largest public library encodes everything as books in the leader
07:52 hdl_laptop chris: where is your proposal ?
07:52 thd magnusenger: I only test very large catalogues
07:52 magnusenger thd: nope, it's not in there. it's an extension made by Biblioteksentralen, the largest seller of catalogue records!
07:53 chris hdl_laptop: linked from[…]elopment:roles3.4
07:53 magnusenger thd: They have their very own dialect of MARC, called BSMARC
07:54 hdl_laptop chris quite sensible proposals
07:54 magnusenger thd: it's defined in a PDF in Norwegian here:[…]gave_3_8_2008.pdf
07:54 chris yeah they all are good i thought
07:55 hdl_laptop I had already seen them.
07:56 hdl_laptop What is quite hard is QA management.
07:56 hdl_laptop At the moment, It really is the main problem
07:56 chris yep, colin's proposal sounds good to me, and he is the first volunteer we have had in a while for it
07:56 hdl_laptop We need automated webbased tests
07:57 thd magnusenger: What is the relation between BSMARC and NORMARC?
07:57 hdl_laptop And Colin has not mentioned taht
07:57 magnusenger thd: i think BS is a subset of NOR, with at least the addition of 019$b
07:58 chris yep, but i dont see that as a reason to reject the proposal, since he is the only one who has volunteered for qa manager in years
07:58 hdl_laptop We also need some infrastructure in order to test with manipulating system preferences.
07:58 thd magnusenger: Where is BSMARC typically used?
07:58 hdl_laptop chris I havenot said I would "reject".
07:59 hdl_laptop But it still is not enough.
07:59 magnusenger thd: public libraries, that buy their records from Biblioteksentralen ("The library central")
08:00 chris hdl_laptop: i think its a fine start, and others are welcome to do their own proposals
08:01 chris if he actually achieves half of his goals, that is more than any other QA manager n the 10 years of koha has done
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08:05 chris hi francharb
08:05 paul_p joined #koha
08:05 chris and hi paul_p
08:05 paul_p hi chris
08:05 francharb hi chris
08:05 hdl_laptop chris well, I am gratefull to Collin to throw his hat on that.
08:06 paul_p ads about win7 on french TV those days (and a very poor one. Should I say 'ridiculous' ?)
08:06 hdl_laptop But I also know it IS tough job.
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08:06 chris hdl_laptop: yes, no one has managed to do it yet, so im very happy that he has volunteered
08:07 hdl_laptop he'll need assistance (I think) And also has to write guidance on wiki for developers to be able to conform to his goals.
08:08 chris yep
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08:31 kf good morning
08:32 chris hiya kf
08:32 kf hi chris :)
08:35 Ropuch Hello kf
08:35 kf hi Ropuch
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09:16 paul_p owen++
09:16 paul_p (for his wonderful templating stuff)
09:16 paul_p opac adv search really flexible with css
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12:09 chris_n g'morning
12:10 chris_n paul_p: ridiculous is the correct word (especially with M$)
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12:45 chris_n confusion already over which tar to download
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12:47 owen Thanks for fielding that one chris_n
12:47 owen What a pain to have to deal with this mess.
12:48 chris_n I think that hdl_laptop had requested the bad one be pulled already
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13:25 magnusenger chris_n: so he did:[…]16.html#a26057316
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13:54 tajoli hi
13:55 tajoli Is nahuel.angelinetti on-line ?
13:55 nahuel of course :)
13:55 tajoli I have a question about your patch [PATCH] Fix normal opac view 26 Oct 2009 16:59
13:56 tajoli Is it for 3.0.4 or for 3.2 ?
13:57 nahuel 3.04
13:57 nahuel 3.0.4 at least
13:57 nahuel perhaps on 3.2 I didn't tested
13:58 tajoli Ok, I insert it in my 3.04 installation
13:58 tajoli thank you
13:58 nahuel you're walcome
13:59 nahuel welcome
13:59 nahuel :)
13:59 kf nahuel: I have a question too - you have a moment? need the bug number for my question
13:59 nahuel of course :)
13:59 nahuel as hdl say, don't ask to ask, just ask :)
14:00 kf bug 3446
14:00 kf hm munin is still missing :(
14:01 nahuel i'm munin :p
14:01 nahuel[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3446
14:01 kf we have a general problems with notices, as we want to set fines and send notices on the same day according to calendar
14:01 kf and send different notices for 1st 2nd and 3rd notice
14:01 kf do you still plan on adding this notice count?
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14:04 kf I think it would be a great help, not sure how to find out if a user already got a notice otherwise, message_queue is complicated when its not send by email to the patron but to the library
14:04 wizzyrea munin was about yesterday
14:04 wizzyrea gr
14:05 kf nahuel? still there? :)
14:05 nahuel still :)
14:05 nahuel 2s
14:06 nahuel but kf, koha manages 3 levels of overdues
14:06 kf it does, but they are not in time with fines
14:06 nahuel ah
14:06 kf what we want to do is send notices after x opening days
14:06 nahuel ah
14:06 kf and set fines after x opening days
14:07 kf its not possible to have notices and fines on the same time line right now, and I think fines are just skipped, when there is a holiday, with fine interval of 7 days this is not a nice thing
14:08 kf and my colleague will try to program something in perl to do it like that
14:08 nahuel you should send the patch :p
14:08 nahuel hehe
14:08 kf and we were discussing how and where to find the information needed and I found your bug :)
14:08 nahuel As I know, we have no plan to do this
14:08 kf when we get it working we will
14:08 nahuel no one of our client asked it
14:08 kf ah ok
14:09 nahuel hmmm else for you patch
14:09 nahuel Yes you can add a column to the issue table
14:09 kf you think this would get added to koha?
14:09 nahuel but this kind of modification should be only for 3.2
14:09 nahuel yes of course!
14:09 nahuel all great ideas are welcome
14:09 nahuel 3.2 or 3.4
14:09 nahuel because 3.2 will be released soon
14:10 kf I think it will be 3.4, as we are in feature freeze now
14:10 kf but we dont want to have local customization in our koha (painful experiences with our old system)
14:11 kf so we will try to get everything into koha that we do :)
14:11 nahuel héhé cool
14:11 nahuel And a really great news for 3.4
14:12 nahuel We will migrate to template toolkit !
14:12 kf its just a plan right now, but we need to get it working somehow
14:12 nahuel Html template pro is a big pain
14:12 kf I dont know if this is great news - will it mean rewriting all templates?
14:12 nahuel Yes it mean rewriting all templates, but it means have more feature
14:12 kf I have no experience with template toolkit and did only very small template changes so far
14:12 nahuel lesser translation problems
14:12 nahuel etc...
14:12 kf lesser translation problems is a plus .)
14:13 nahuel Template::Toolkit is really similar as django templates, or smarty
14:13 kf always have a list with typos and things to correct on my desk
14:14 kf in fact I know near to nothing about templating - but willing to learn
14:15 kf ok, but about 3446 - you will not add it but think its a good idea - right? :) so I will talk to my colleague if we are able to make a change like that
14:16 nahuel It's a good idea :)
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14:17 kf thx for your time nahuel
14:17 nahuel like tajoli, you're welcome
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14:58 owen Is this correct? "The z3950search will NOT work until your system administrator has activated the z3950 client daemon on your server. The daemon is in KohaDirectory/script/z3950daemon"
14:58 owen I don't seem to have a /script/ directory
15:01 slef that's 2.x
15:01 slef maybe even only 2.0 and early 2.2
15:02 slef where did you spot that?
15:02 owen[…]rs/z39.50-servers
15:02 owen and[…]rs/z39.50-servers
15:02 slef hrm, a bug for nengard
15:02 slef I think we can't edit that?
15:02 slef would welcome comments on bug 3732
15:02 slef is the bot not back?
15:03 owen Left again last night I think
15:03 slef anyone got its config backed up?  I miss it.
15:03 slef[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3732 field lengths and multi-line boxes
15:03 owen gmcharlt said he might host it himself if we continued to have problems with it
15:04 slef ok, but having the config backed up would be good, so whoever wanted to could step in easily to cover future problems
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15:05 * owen wonders why he didn't get an email from the bugzilla list about bug 3732
15:05 slef only just created it
15:05 owen Oh, I misread the date
15:07 owen slef: What is the correct procedure for getting the z3950 daemon running?
15:08 Bar Has anyone ever seen a problem with Patron searching where a search term, with many hits, only displays the first hit? e.g surname McCarthy has 75 Patrons but the results only show one?
15:11 wizzyrea we've had the opposite problem, where say, you type in heather heath and you get all of the heathers and all of the heaths, but heather heath is not on the first 20 results pages
15:12 Bar Strange. Just reading through the file now to see if there is anything worth tweaking in there
15:13 schuster I was reading the threads from earlier - and Chris talks about the items NOT coming out of the MARC for 3.2 is that still the case?  I was hopefull that it would resolve some of our slow checkouts when a teacher has 50 items and they are checking out another book that every teacher is getting.
15:14 schuster Sometimes it takes over a minute for that one transaction to checkout that book.
15:14 owen I think that must be fore 3.4?
15:14 schuster hmmm...  It used to be for 3.2 so that changed someplace drat.
15:14 owen I don't know schuster, I could be wrong.
15:15 owen No, looking at chris's RM proposal, he mentions getting XML out of circulation code.
15:15 kf I think gmcharlt said he wanted to to this, perhaps a time problem?
15:15 slef owen: sorry, what z3950 daemon?
15:15 schuster again phewie.
15:15 wizzyrea schuster: maybe that's not part of our 3.2?
15:16 chris OMG
15:16 wizzyrea OMG indeed
15:16 wizzyrea you're awake?
15:16 owen chris, go back to bed it's not worth it!
15:16 slef chris!  what's 3.0.x-fixes on gitorious for and can I pollute it? ;-)
15:16 * wizzyrea hypnotizes Chris... you are getting very sleepy...
15:17 wizzyrea your eyes are getting heavy
15:17 wizzyrea your pillow is calling your  name
15:17 chris heheh
15:17 wizzyrea Chrisssssss.... sleeeep...
15:17 wizzyrea :)
15:18 schuster chris - so the bug wrangler would watch the git and communicate with the release manager or would the release manager contact the bug wrangler when something has been submitted etc???
15:18 owen schuster: Sorry, chris isn't allowed to talk he has to go to bed
15:18 slef owen: are you talking about the 2.x era z3950 client daemon or the 3.x era koha-zebra daemon?
15:19 schuster ;)
15:19 owen slef: I'm just trying to get my z39.50 searches working :)
15:19 slef owen: 3.x doesn't need a z3950 daemon for z3950 searching.
15:19 owen slef: It's my first try managing my own install
15:19 slef owen: do you know if the firewall is OK?
15:20 owen slef: No, I'm not sure about that. What should I look for?
15:20 slef owen: could try a search with yaz-client from a ssh command-line, but remember to auth before you open.
15:20 slef looking for info
15:21 slef nothing obvious on wiki, checking coop
15:22 schuster Make sure your firewall allows the out going and incoming from the appropriate ports.  I can't use Z39.50 searching from our server because we only allow traffic on ports 80 and 8080
15:22 owen Heh, second Google result for "yaz client command line" is from
15:22 kf owen: when you get no results with your z39.50 maybe the port is missing in the firewall
15:23 slef owen:
15:23 slef yaz-client
15:23 slef auth username password (if you have them)
15:23 slef open
15:23 slef base databasename
15:23 slef f test
15:24 slef then s to show records, one at a time, and q to quit
15:26 owen Thanks slef. All that worked perfectly: results came up fine.
15:27 slef ok, so what doesn't work?
15:29 owen Well, now I have to apologize for the false alarm: it seems z39.50 searches from within Koha *are* working...
15:29 owen Did I just pick all the wrong things to search for at first? :(
15:29 slef heh, maybe... or maybe it was a heisenbug
15:29 slef
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15:39 chris_n hehe
15:40 * chris_n thinks that the uncertainty principle applies well to some sorts of food.... they alter their composition when you go to taste them
15:46 wizzyrea lol
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16:01 jdavidb Howdy, folks.
16:02 wizzyrea hey jdavidb
16:03 kf hi jdavidb
16:05 jdavidb :D   How's things, Liz?
16:06 jdavidb Hi, kf!
16:06 wizzyrea things are good :) how's your trip?
16:07 jdavidb owen++  #RT: @oleonard Bring it.
16:07 chris_n ehlo jdavidb
16:08 jdavidb So far so good.  this cgi thing is really laggy.  jwagner is teaching INCOLSA about jquery.  :)
16:08 schuster Ah word is out INCOLSA...  I've heard rumors.
16:08 schuster owen still around?
16:08 owen yes
16:09 schuster Did you have a chance to think about my multi-pac setup and those predefined searches we were talking about last week?
16:09 jdavidb yes, schuster...they're our customer.  Great folks.
16:10 owen Sorry schuster no, it got buried.
16:10 schuster I figured, just thought I'd ask thanks for the update!
16:10 schuster no problem owne
16:10 schuster owen sorry.
16:11 jdavidb I'm counting the number of time owen's name gets dropped in this whole templates/jquery discussion jwagner is doing.
16:12 wizzyrea well he is a wizard
16:12 owen Is she handing out my phone # and home address? I'll set an extra place or two at the table.
16:14 owen My wife would love that: a dinner party where we only discussed jquery and html ;)
16:14 wizzyrea hehe
16:15 jdavidb No, she hasn't done that..    yet.
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16:19 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
16:21 kf owen is really great, you can change things everywhere really easily. and Im falling in love with jquery
16:22 kf I added a screen keyboard for hebrew to our catalog today, using only sysprefs, a famfamfam icon, javascript/jquery, html and css :)
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16:39 kf time to go home - bye #koha
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16:49 ccurry Hello, all.
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16:53 ccurry I'm looking for a way to use koha to run a global update on a particular MARC field.  Is this possible?  I see that the MARC records are stored as a blob in the biblioitems table, so I can't use MySQL queries to edit the data.  The ILS we're migrating from had an issue with the 008 field being stored in the wrong place in the database and it won't export, so we need to splice this information into
16:53 ccurry the records.  I'm trying to determine the best place to do this.  The old ILS runs on MSSQL, which I have no experience with, so I was hoping to make the change once the data is in koha.
16:59 owen is now known as owen-away
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17:07 slef ccurry: Is it a Blob or a text field?
17:08 ccurry longblob, according to MySQL
17:19 ccurry I must be off; lunch calls me, but if anyone has a tip for me please email it to  Thanks.
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17:23 jdavidb Howdy again.
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17:30 * mdhafen is looking for someone with more Perl experience than he has.
17:30 mdhafen I'm trying to squash a log message cause by 'use warnings'
17:32 mdhafen Can anyone spot the uninitialized variable in this bit of code?  foreach ( keys %$attribs ) { exists $$attribs{ $_ } && $$attribs{ $_ } =~ s/\s*$//; }
17:33 mdhafen not variable, the log message says uninitialized value.  Sorry about that.
17:34 jdavidb left #koha
17:37 mdhafen anyone... anyone...
17:38 chris it will be $$attribs{ $_ }
17:39 mdhafen ok, but doesn't the exists() check take care of that?
17:39 chris nope
17:39 chris that checks if it exists, not if it has a value
17:39 chris so the key exists
17:39 chris but the value associated with that key in the hash doesnt
17:39 mdhafen ah, now I see the difference.
17:40 chris also i hate the implicit variable
17:40 chris fwiw :-)
17:40 mdhafen :)  You will probably never see this code in production, so don't worry about it ;)
17:40 chris :)
17:41 chris and even after 2.5 hours more sleep my OMG from before still stands wizzyrea  :)
17:51 chris slef: you about?
17:54 owen-away is now known as owen
17:55 slef chris: intermittently.
17:55 slef chris: did you see me ask what is gitorious 3.0.x-fixes for?
17:55 chris the 3.0.x-fixes was the branch hdl and i were using to cherry-pick stuff from master to 3.0.x
17:55 chris it then was merged over to 3.0.x
17:56 slef so dormant branch now?  Should I use it or branch anew?
17:56 chris so yep, you could rebase it, and use it to bring over your fixes
17:56 slef rebase or pull?
17:56 chris choice is yours
17:57 slef ok ta
17:57 slef did you want me for something else?
17:57 chris nope that was it
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18:00 owen Who could have guessed was only for historical purposes?
18:01 slef oh no
18:01 slef they didn't write that?
18:02 owen " is a site that LibLime created to provide a historical archive of Koha releases done to date"
18:02 owen says Josh
18:02 chris pompous_asses--
18:02 chris PEI_schools++
18:04 slef PEI?
18:05 chris Prince Edward Island
18:05 slef Pei may refer to:;Places: Prince Edward Island, a province of Canada, Pei, Tibet, a town in Tibet, Pei County, a county in Xuzhou, Jiangsu, China
18:05 chris[…]?sid=297278&sc=98
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18:06 chris ccurry: re your question earlier
18:07 slef chris:[…]oha&nick=kados&q="" returns invalid XML
18:07 chris what format does your data come out of your old system as?
18:07 ccurry .mrc
18:07 chris in that case i would use MarcEdit
18:07 chris to do your changes
18:07 chris then import that fixed file to koha
18:08 chris slef: take it up with moritz lenz :)
18:09 chris or i could fix it and send him a patch i guess :) thanks for the heads up
18:09 slef let me know where... oh OK
18:12 chris ccurry: marcedit has some great bulk editing features
18:13 ccurry chris: Thanks.  I've been trying to think of a way to do this with MarcEdit, but I'm not sure it's is sophisticated enough to handle what we need to do.  We'd have to add different data in the 008 fields based on some sort of unique id and I haven't yet found a tool in MarcEdit that does this.  I've been playing around with the scriptwizard to see if I could use it, but I haven't figured it...
18:13 ccurry ...out yet (and it only works for tab delimited files?).
18:13 ccurry chris: can you recommend a particular tool/feature that would be suited to this type of operation?
18:13 chris hmmm
18:14 chris well one way is to use marcedit to convert your marc to text
18:14 chris (it can roundtrip it)
18:14 chris then use sed, or a perl script to do your changes, and then convert back to marc
18:15 * chris has had to resort to that before
18:15 chris but now i have to go feed my son breakfast
18:16 chris he is yelling "Get some nuts!!!" which is toddler speak for i want peanut butter toast
18:16 chris bbiab
18:16 ccurry chris: thanks.  I'll look into it.
18:16 ccurry good luck with the peanut butter toast.
18:16 owen lol, "Get some nuts!!!"
18:17 schuster One word of caution is that when I have exported my MARC database from Koha in the authoritized fields it was putting a number, I suspect the authority number for that heading so they don't export cleanly.  I have not tried to reload them to see what it does.
18:17 schuster Some people gave me a couple of things to try, but it dropped to the bottom of my list of things to do.
18:22 chris owen: i blame snickers adverts
18:22 chris toast is in the toaster
18:33 slef[…]08-08-23#i_229850 and[…]08-06-24#i_220974
18:34 wizzyrea omg get some nuts
18:36 chris slef: wanna post those to the thread? :)
18:37 wizzyrea well crap
18:37 wizzyrea oh, that will go over well
18:37 wizzyrea he loves me :P
18:37 wizzyrea <sarcasm>
18:38 chris heh
18:38 chris peanut butter toast and blues clues, my work here is done
18:39 * wizzyrea envisions chris dusting off his crumby hands
18:39 chris heh
18:39 wizzyrea hehe sorry
18:39 slef chris: I'm pondering[…]nuary/012900.html
18:40 chris oh yeah there was an alpha, a beta, an rc1
18:40 chris none of which are on
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18:41 chris it actually was the bullying of HDL that i objected, i expect him to dissemble these days
18:50 schuster some times you feel like a nut, sometimes you dont MOUNDS!
18:50 schuster Almond Joy...
18:55 chris ok off to work, bbl
19:01 slef chris: alpha and beta just appeared
19:01 slef is a release candidate a release?  go ask #philosophy
19:02 wizzyrea ugh... you know what's funny
19:03 wizzyrea it used to be that his clients got mad at him for spending too much time with the community
19:03 wizzyrea now I'm mad because he's spending too much time fighting with the community
19:04 owen At least we're /told/ his clients got mad at him for spending time with the community
19:04 wizzyrea I don't have a problem with him spending (his staff's) time helping the community, at all
19:04 schuster Well when we had problems that they wouldn't address or logs that people wouldn't look at that did make me a little perturbed.
19:04 wizzyrea I do take issue with him fighting and being petty re: the community
19:08 owen Welcome, Koha Express customers, to the community your vendor doesn't believe in. :(
19:10 brendan afternoon everyone
19:10 sekjal afternoon, brendan
19:10 schuster was there a new post someplace that I missed?
19:11 owen schuster: I'm just reading the "Question about Migration of data" post to the Koha list
19:11 owen "We just purchased Koha Express..."
19:17 schuster OK I usually read that in digest the next day...
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19:19 owen Not that I don't think they should be coming to the community for help, I just wish we could get some respect from the vendor that's sending them to us.
19:20 brendan owen++
19:23 slef erm, remind me: what's "Koha Express"?  LibLime's cloud-hosted one?
19:24 owen It's their "turnkey" no-frills, no services version.
19:24 slef is it a released version?
19:24 owen "based on the official Koha Community software releases"
19:25 owen Not exactly sure what that means, but I'm assuming it's not LEK.
19:25 * slef browses
19:25 sekjal I think Koha Express is a no-Zebra installation of Koha 3.0.2
19:25 slef "based on" - who's going to ask for the version number?
19:25 sekjal
19:26 owen sekjal: Have you heard something about no-Zebra? I don't see it in the description.
19:27 slef $299 per year?  If that's no-Zebra, it compares badly with our one-off fee.
19:28 sekjal I am interpretting "less than 75,000 records" to mean that, since "Koha Community" is billed at having support for tens of millions of records.
19:28 sekjal I recall that kind of description of Zebra when it was introduced, so I'm connecting dots
19:28 sekjal perhaps improperly
19:29 owen sekjal: Makes sense though.
19:29 owen slef: You have an offering with a one-off fee?
19:30 sekjal sad that "Koha Express" and "Koha Community" are two releases behind; there are lots of good things since 3.0.2
19:31 slef owen: yes, two of them, but we're in a state of flux, so isn't up to date until at least this week's members meeting.
19:31 slef owen: officially, we're still quoting case-by-case.  In practice, I'm working from a price list.
19:32 slef owen: I think the members are getting bored of my quote approval requests, so it should get approved as a list price soon ;-)
19:33 owen Interesting, slef--Do you have customers with existing hosting service who ask you to install Koha there for them?
19:34 slef owen: usually, yes.
19:35 slef owen: owning or renting their own servers is the most common among our customers.
19:35 owen So not your typical mass-market web hosts.
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19:35 richard hi
19:36 owen I wonder how high-end you have to get before you have the kind of privileges on a commercial web host required to install Koha.
19:36 slef virtual server
19:36 slef it can be done with ssh but it's not easy
19:44 slef well, that depends... koha with zebra I mean
19:44 slef I think we've installed noZebra with only FTP and a web control panel, but that's really bad (and so more expensive)
19:46 chris back
19:46 chris slef: interesting .. revisionist history going on eh
19:47 chris someone reading the irc logs i wonder
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19:55 chris nice reply to laurie slef
19:58 wizzyrea I hear it's not all too difficult to do to do it on amazon ec2
19:58 wizzyrea if you've done it on a virtualbox, you can do it on ec2
19:58 chris yeah, its easy peasy
19:58 chris you have an image
19:59 chris that is an installed, empty koha, and switch that on
19:59 magnusenger slef: i have been wondering about that recently - is it fair to say that you need root/sudo privileges to install Koha (w/Zebra)?
19:59 chris done
19:59 magnusenger ec2 behaves as any server that you have root access to
19:59 magnusenger no special magic once you have a instance up and running
20:00 wizzyrea I wonder how hard it would be to get a koha image made available to ec3
20:00 wizzyrea ec2*
20:00 magnusenger but you have to plan for images going down, they are not regarded as persistent
20:00 wizzyrea i know people do that sort of thing
20:00 chris not hard at all wizzy
20:00 chris liblime will have them for doing their hosting
20:00 wizzyrea I guess I meant listed with amazon as one of their default options
20:00 magnusenger wizzyrea: yeah, theres lots of docs on how to create images for ec2
20:01 chris oh yeah, i think thats just fill in a form :)
20:01 wizzyrea well crikey
20:01 magnusenger but the thing is, you don't want to run your koha on ec2 without thinking a lot about backup and what happens when your instance dies
20:02 chris yeah, that goes for any thing in the cloud
20:02 magnusenger but for testing etc it would be super-cool to have an image that you could fire up
20:02 wizzyrea well, you'd have to think about that anyway
20:02 magnusenger it would be like vmware or virtualbox without any installation
20:03 wizzyrea right
20:03 magnusenger and only cost 10 cents pr hour for testing
20:03 wizzyrea obviously people do all kinds of fancy things on ec2
20:03 wizzyrea twitter, for example
20:03 magnusenger chris: yeah, but amazon seem very keen to point out that their instances are "brittle"
20:03 owen What does that mean in practical terms?
20:04 wizzyrea and you could contend that in practical terms, the library catalog is a little less 24/7 than twitter :P
20:04 magnusenger owen: not quite sure, i have had an instance running for well over a year, but they say they can go away at any time...
20:04 wizzyrea well that makes me nervous about my LL koha install...
20:05 wizzyrea since it runs on ec2
20:05 wizzyrea 2, actually
20:05 magnusenger but they probably have some kind of backup/failover-system in place
20:05 owen magnusenger: Do you use it for something in production or for testing?
20:05 wizzyrea one would hope so
20:05 magnusenger i think ec2 is great if you need a lot of power, several servers, failover etc
20:06 magnusenger if you only need one server with ordinary backup-routines i don't think it's that great
20:07 magnusenger owen: well i have an instance with koha that is used for testing/training by an african university:
20:08 owen magnusenger: what are the costs like, if I may ask?
20:09 magnusenger owen: the smallest instance running linux in the us is 10 cents pr hour:
20:10 * owen isn't sure what the per-hour pricing is all about
20:10 owen Is that literally how much time someone is interacting with the system?
20:11 magnusenger nope, you get an instance running and then you pay for the number hours it runs
20:11 magnusenger no matter if its idle all the time or serving pages at full speed
20:11 magnusenger when you shut it down you stop paying
20:11 owen I see, so the idea is you can set something up for as little time as you want
20:12 magnusenger so that's great for testing, or if you need to fire up lots of instances to meet spikes in demand
20:12 magnusenger yes, if you run an instance for 59 minutes you just pay the $0.10
20:13 magnusenger auto scaling and load balancing are probably some of ec2 greatest strengths
20:14 owen So that doesn't translate to an inexpensive monthly charge, and would be overkill for something that didn't need scaling
20:14 chris also if you are doing somethign like LL
20:15 chris where for $299 you run 3 commands
20:15 chris its pretty sweet
20:15 chris wtf
20:15 chris LibLime staff have also held several official positions in the community historically, including:Release Manager, v. 3.0, 3.2; Translation Manager, v. 3.0; Documentation Manager, v. 3.0 and 3.2
20:16 * chris should stop looking at that site
20:16 magnusenger owen: yes, that's pretty much my conclusion! ;-)
20:17 wizzyrea you mean CPU hours, right?
20:17 slef magnusenger: you don't need root/sudo, but it makes life a lot easier.
20:17 brendan rackspace has a really nice small cloud-server -- for 1.5 cents an hour
20:17 slef magnusenger: zebra and even mysql don't use privileged (root-requiring) ports by default.
20:18 brendan small though 10gb harddrive
20:18 magnusenger slef: ok, but wouldnt you need it in order to install zebra and its deps?
20:18 slef magnusenger: not if you install to $HOME.
20:19 magnusenger brendan: you'd fit quite a lot of koha in 10gb, though? ;-)
20:19 brendan :)
20:19 slef maybe you need to be as old a sysadmin as me and have experienced really locked-down university systems
20:19 magnusenger slef: ah, ok, havn't thought about that
20:19 magnusenger slef: ;-)
20:20 slef off-topic, is that windows 7 smb 2 critical flaw still unpatched?
20:20 slef I've a blog post going out in the morning using it as an example of why openness is essential.
20:21 slef[…]091019-01.en.html in case you've not seen it yet
20:22 slef I also drive-by flame the BBC, but hey ho
20:35 owen See you in 16 hours, everyone!
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20:57 hdl_laptop left #koha
20:59 chris dang missed nate
21:01 brendan ah he'll be back
21:01 hdl_laptop joined #koha
21:01 chris cool
21:02 chris_n2 be back after a win32 weekly reboot :-P
21:02 chris_n2 left #koha
21:11 soul9 left #koha
21:12 chris_n2 joined #koha
21:12 chris_n2 back
21:12 brendan wb chris_n2
21:12 chris_n2 win32--
21:13 chris yeah, dunno why anyone uses it :-)
21:14 chris_n2 video processing software
21:14 chris_n2 I have not found the equivalent in FOSS yet
21:15 chris ahhh
21:15 schuster left #koha
21:15 chris_n2 cinelerra is not quite usable for me
21:17 chris ARGH!!
21:17 chris_n2 sup?
21:18 chris_n2 rm -fr from root?
21:18 chris joshua having another crack at hdl
21:18 chris bullies--
21:18 * chris_n2 heads to the inbox
21:19 * chris hopes someone else responds so i dont have to
21:19 sekjal hmmm, LibLime must have finished all the coding for LEK, since he has all this time to respond to emails all of a sudden
21:19 sekjal I know they've been very busy
21:19 chris :)
21:20 chris_n2 hehe
21:20 chris he has a funny definition of working fine so far
21:20 magnusenger left #koha
21:20 chris and hdl did have access to the server up until very recently
21:21 sekjal chris: well, it's not impacting his customers, so everything must be peachy
21:21 magnusenger joined #koha
21:21 chris sekjal: yeah
21:21 wizzyrea it's impacting me, I still don't have my sandbox.
21:22 chris i suspect there is an element of baiting, to try and get an ill thought out response
21:22 chris so the martyr card can come out again
21:22 brendan sekjal -- did you migrate from unicorn?
21:22 wizzyrea that's actually a very good point. it may be better to just let it die.
21:22 sekjal brendan:  Millennium
21:22 brendan ok :)
21:23 chris wizzyrea: yep ive said my piece, joshua knows he has made the same mistakes with releases in the past that hdl has, he and i know that, that's good enough for me
21:24 sekjal alright, all, time for my train.  good day/evening/night to you!
21:25 sekjal left #koha
21:33 hdl_laptop hi
21:34 chris hey hdl_laptop :)
21:35 hdl_laptop hi chris.
21:35 hdl_laptop Seems Joshua got out at last.
21:35 chris yep
21:36 admin joined #koha
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21:38 hdl_laptop Not really pleased about his wording, and he never commented about new release numbers in the past.
21:38 hdl_laptop But well.
21:38 hdl_laptop anyway
21:39 chris yeah i think ignore it now
21:39 wizzyrea or send it off list
21:39 wizzyrea actually
21:40 wizzyrea write an angry email, read it, and then delete it.
21:40 wizzyrea :)
21:40 wizzyrea that's what I always do
21:40 chris :)
21:40 hdl_laptop I am not angry.
21:40 hdl_laptop Just disappointed we have come to such relationships.
21:41 wizzyrea yea, it does seem sad
21:41 wizzyrea (I didn't mean to imply that you were especially angry... it could be a sad/disappointed email too)
21:41 wizzyrea :)
21:41 hdl_laptop hehe wizzyrea ;)
21:43 wizzyrea or this lol: http://rulesformyunbornson.tum[…]critic-in-writing
21:44 wizzyrea that is a funny site
21:44 chris_n2 off-brand crayons--
21:45 chris_n2 wizzyrea: lol
21:45 * chris_n2 goes back to coloring w/his 3 year old
21:46 chris :)
21:50 wizzyrea lucky kid! I want to color!
21:52 chris roflmao
21:54 Ropuch ;>
21:57 wizzyrea GET SOME NUTS!!
21:57 chris hehe
21:57 wizzyrea (sorry. it's almost quitting time for me, I get a bit slap happy)
21:58 chris the other thing he says that makes me laugh is
21:58 chris "what's going on?"
21:58 chris he just walks into a room and opens with that
22:01 brendan from wizzyrea's site that she forwarded
22:01 brendan Enough already. Learn the laws of cricket.
22:01 chris yep, cricket doesnt have rules, it has laws
22:04 pianohackr|work joined #koha
22:06 thd is now known as thd-away
22:08 chris hiya pianohackr|work
22:08 pianohackr|work hi chris
22:08 chris hows the hand healing?
22:11 pianohackr|work fairly well, actually, I'm taking the splint off halloween
22:12 chris excellent
22:12 chris[…]0/27/rr-koha-doc/
22:12 pianohackr|work how's your day going?
22:13 chris not too bad at all, getting quite a lot done
22:20 magnusenger ...and so to bed!
22:20 magnusenger left #koha
22:26 rhcl Not trying to be self-deprecating here, but I have a question stemming from <apparently> my ignorance...
22:26 rhcl In an OPAC (or the ILS) itself, and after checking a number of library web sites...
22:26 rhcl it seems that you can't search for, for example...
22:27 rhcl something with the criteria:
22:27 rhcl DVD, sci-fi, rated R, release 2003-2007, actor James Bond etc
22:27 rhcl why not?
22:28 pianohackr|work the first two would likely be handled by collection codes
22:28 pianohackr|work rating could be done through a range, which koha supports but doesn't expose very well
22:28 pianohackr|work release date, rather
22:29 rhcl are ratings an official "field"?
22:29 pianohackr|work rating and actor would be trickier, as the necessary marc fields aren't as structured
22:29 pianohackr|work yes, its one of the 500s
22:29 pianohackr|work cast too
22:29 chris if you had set up authorised values for ratings
22:29 rhcl 521 my TS supervisor says
22:30 chris it would be easier
22:32 chris_n2 owen++ # for helping individuals see the obvious when they have their eyes closed
22:32 rhcl So if the rating is an established field, and the rating was originally entered by the cataloger, then presumably the OPAC search could be customized to pull on it.
22:32 pianohackr|work rhcl: yup
22:34 chris you may have to tweek your record.abs file to make zebra index it
22:34 rhcl So I wonder how the IMDB advanced search works?
22:34 chris not using marc :)
22:35 pianohackr|work i would certainly hope!
22:35 rhcl Apparently our Sirsi Workflows can pull the 521 field, but not the OPAC.
22:50 Nate hiya all!
22:50 chris_n2 howdy Nate
22:50 Nate just got back from the gym and i am stiiinky!
22:50 chris heya Nate
22:50 chris lucky text doesnt carry smell :)
22:50 Nate hey chris_n2 and chris!
22:51 Nate got that right
22:51 chris_n2 heh
22:51 Nate hey chris is it warm by you now?
22:51 brendan wb Nate
22:52 Nate hey bren
22:52 chris not too bad, about 13 celsius, warming up
22:55 hdl_laptop chris do you know any solution to output EOL caracter correctly for Windows and Linux with calling a platform parameter  ?
22:56 chris so to figure out what platform its running on, and do a \r or a \n depending?
22:57 hdl_laptop some scripts are providing reports for user, but if we use server \n then it won't work on Windows, and if we use \r\n all the time, it won't be cool for Linux ;)
22:57 chris yeah
22:58 hdl_laptop So I wanted to find a package which would cope with that cleanly
22:58 hdl_laptop package or function
22:58 chris scripts are being run as cgi?
22:58 chris cos the trick will be finding out the platform of the caller
22:58 chris if so
22:59 hdl_laptop oh you're right, for cronjobs, that would not be efficient.
23:00 hdl_laptop Since there are no way to know for which platform you want to print things, apart from providing a script parameter
23:01 chris exactly
23:03 hdl_laptop But how do PERL configure those "magic" variables such as $" $/
23:03 chris pass
23:03 pianohackr|work i'd imagine by whatever os it's compiled for, no?
23:05 hdl_laptop could be, but it surely has a definition of PLATFORM and variables somewhere then.
23:05 pianohackr|work maybe just a config.h sort of thing
23:06 Nate left #koha
23:06 hdl_laptop pianohackr|work: Do you think then that a script designed on a Linux Box cannot output Windows elements ?
23:07 hdl_laptop unless it is executed on a windows box ?
23:07 pianohackr|work well, you could set the necessary special variables
23:07 hdl_laptop This would be a funny way to build a "cross-platform" language imho
23:07 pianohackr|work I think perl generally assumes the output will be used on the same platform its being run on
23:08 chilts you might want this: $OUTPUT_RECORD_SEPARATOR
23:08 chilts or $\
23:08 pianohackr|work hello, chilts
23:08 chilts it's undefined by default, but if you set it it'll happen each time there is a newline (I think)
23:08 chilts hi pianohackr|work
23:08 chilts but not sure how to check for an OS
23:08 chilts maybe this:[…]ib/Sys/Info/
23:08 chilts if $os->is_linux
23:09 chilts etc
23:09 pianohackr|work it's going to be nasty however you do it, since the report code is essentially copy-and-paste
23:10 chilts usually I'd just let Perl do it's thing ... how are the reports output? HTML or otherwise?
23:11 pianohackr|work chilts: generally cgi or on-filesystem reports from cronjobs, yes
23:12 hdl_laptop hi chilts
23:12 chilts hi hdl_laptop
23:12 chilts pianohackr|work: ah, so the crons email the reports or just save them somewhere for download?
23:13 pianohackr|work chilts: yup
23:13 chilts and what format are they? text?
23:13 chilts html?
23:13 pianohackr|work varies, but almost always text or csv
23:13 chilts ah, ok, hence the problem :(
23:14 pianohackr|work exactly
23:14 pianohackr|work enough ^Ms for the whole family
23:14 chilts if they are downloadable, there could be an option "Download as CSV (Windows|Mac|Unix)" ??
23:14 chilts each clickable
23:14 chilts that makes it easier
23:15 pianohackr|work something along those lines
23:15 chilts oh wait, I guess this is for Koha running on Windows?
23:15 hdl_laptop No.
23:15 hdl_laptop clients under windows, or Mac but server under Linux
23:15 chilts ah, I think let them choose then :)
23:16 chilts otherwise you'll have to go 'if the thing doing the download is windows, then do this' ... which is a pain
23:16 chris and error prone
23:17 chris my browser pretends to be windows sometimes to get round stupid websites :)
23:17 chilts so yeah, if you have two links, Windows|Linux, run the same script with 'format=(windoze|linux)' which sets the right thing :)
23:17 chilts or something
23:18 chris you could have a handler which serves the file
23:18 hdl_laptop could be better to have a script that does post processing on reports rather than printing them once.
23:18 hdl_laptop same idea
23:18 chris if windows s/\n/\r\n/
23:18 chris yeah
23:26 hdl_laptop mmm can't think of many variables though surely, we would need that to be done quite basically at first and then enriched.
23:27 pianohackr|work hdl_laptop: if you manage to refactor some of the reports while you're at it, your name shall be shouted from the rooftops
23:29 hdl_laptop will try.
23:29 hdl_laptop ok good night folks
23:29 pianohackr|work good night
23:30 hdl_laptop left #koha
23:31 chris_n2 left #koha
23:31 chris_n2 joined #koha
23:32 chris_n2 argh!
23:32 chris_n2 /me spills coke into his keyboard
23:32 pianohackr|work soft_drinks-- :)
23:33 chris_n2 at least I saved the pizza ;-)
23:34 chris_n2 this keyboard is due a bath anyway
23:34 pianohackr|work pizza++ only way our migration succeeded was through the grace of dominos
23:34 chris_n2 hehe
23:34 * chris_n2 sends another missive to the 'dmake' guru
23:35 chris_n2 I'm pounding on win32 installation again
23:35 pianohackr|work oh, I'm sorry
23:35 pianohackr|work thanks for doing that, it's nasty grunge work that nobody seems to want to sponsor
23:36 chris_n2 can opac be installed as a true stand-alone?
23:40 pianohackr|work how do you mean?
23:59 chris_n2 actually I was thinking opac on one machine and staff client on another

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