IRC log for #koha, 2008-12-05

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:26 Brooke howdy
13:34 Brooke Ha
13:34 Brooke it worked
13:34 Brooke it produced an Owen
13:35 owen Hey, and newlogbot is here so I can find out what Brooke is talking about!
14:20 owen Brooke, if you're handing out wish lists, better to do it where Santa might be listening.
14:21 Brooke yeah conversation changed, sorry
14:21 Brooke so anyway
14:21 Brooke all Libraries (or just about all of em)
14:22 Brooke are gonna want to know how many things got checked out each month
14:22 Brooke I've always seen this broken down by subject area
14:22 Brooke when it's broken down
14:22 Brooke some people want something as flat as "Hey, how many items went out?
14:23 Brooke Like that would be a statistic I needed in my annual town report and in my aris
14:23 Brooke but it would be neat some time in the murky future to have statistics help us
14:24 Brooke and I realise that this is a moon on a string thing
14:24 Brooke for like Koha 4 or 5
14:24 Brooke but I'd love it to not just tell me how many times each book in the Mystery section went out last month
14:25 Brooke but how many times each book in the mystery section went out last month in my Library
14:25 atz_ Brooke: what keeps you from getting that now?
14:25 Brooke and how many times each book in the mystery section at Nelsonville Main went out last month
14:25 Brooke if they let me be nosy
14:25 acmoore I'm not sure how the custom reporting stuff works, but this sounds like something that can do.
14:25 Brooke and then compare what is circing more there
14:26 Brooke right, but that should be an out of box no fuss option
14:26 atz_ Brooke: you actually want a list of barcodes or titles or what?
14:27 atz_ that seems excessively detailed, for a library with tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of items
14:27 Brooke For the future thing, I would want a list of suggested titles with ISBN so that I could then order them. But it would be even better
14:27 Brooke if it went into acquisitions somehow and gave me an option to just order that book
14:29 Brooke so the checkouts by patron category at the way bottom under other
14:29 Brooke is on the right track
14:29 Brooke and I like that
14:30 Brooke it's not terribly fussy, but it kind of gets buried with all the stuff on the left
14:30 Brooke just like ye olde catalogue by item type is very useful for me aris, but it too takes a bit of sniffing about to find
14:32 Brooke and yes, that would be kind of weird for a large academic Library to want atz, but I bet it'd be popular for the smaller ones
14:32 Brooke and it wouldn't need to return all of the items
14:32 Brooke it would need to return the items we had in common
14:33 Brooke and then look at what we didn't share
14:33 Brooke and then pick the titles that were newer than a date I gave it, that were missing from my catalogue, but did well at Nelsonville
14:34 Brooke or even easier
14:34 Brooke have it crawl NYTimes
14:34 Brooke and my Library catalogue
14:34 Brooke and see what I missed from the bestseller list
14:34 Brooke then suggest a missing one as an aquisition
14:36 Brooke or perhaps I want to see what's not working. Instead of a Most Circulated items Top List, have a dusty book list
14:36 Brooke that would let me weed what was bad
14:37 Brooke but that went a step further and looked at say $650 to see if there were trouble spots by subject
14:38 kf great ideas, brooke
14:38 Brooke thanks
14:38 Brooke and hard to execute, I realise
14:38 Brooke and a little weird sounding, and excessively detailed, I realise
14:38 Brooke but some stuff could be done without me seeing it as a user
14:38 kf not so weird at all
14:38 Brooke so that I didn't get overloaded
14:40 Brooke But this is way lower in priority for me than I think an installer would be
14:40 Brooke and that's higher than cataloguing
14:40 Brooke which is higher than reports
14:42 kf i have a long wishlist for acquisitions... but i hope that rfcs for 3.2 get all implemented
14:42 Brooke <---- has a long wishlist for everything
14:43 Brooke but everything is getting done :D
14:43 Brooke I remember when there were no reports
14:44 Brooke just like installation is nicer now than it was in past, but I'd still love a package of the programme and dependencies so BOOM click click done
14:46 Brooke I'm still chomping on the RDA report
14:46 Brooke anyone else read that?
14:48 gmcharlt I've been avoding having to do that, but know I need to digest it sooner rather than later :)
14:53 Brooke *nod*
14:53 Brooke I think it's a good thing, since we're in a position to actually implement it in future
14:54 Brooke it's something to think about when we think about cataloguing since we know how things are now
14:54 Brooke the big problem is
14:54 Brooke and sit for this
14:54 Brooke they've not addressed subject yet
14:55 gmcharlt they'll deal with that eventually
14:55 gmcharlt my main concern is that the standard will be hobbled
14:55 gmcharlt if they don't make it freely available
14:56 gmcharlt for example, it would have been nice if they had released the draft in it's original XML form (or whatever they're using)
14:56 gmcharlt instead of PDFs
14:56 gmcharlt much easier to slice and dice, from my point of view
14:56 Brooke true
14:57 Brooke but PDFs are a cut above mail this person $65 - $75 for your very own copy of the AACR2R on paper
14:57 Brooke yes Paper!
14:57 gmcharlt if they expect libraries to pay $X per copy/license/whatever, where $X is much above $10 at most
14:57 gmcharlt it's going to take years for it to be adopted
14:57 gmcharlt if it all
14:57 Brooke it's going to take years to be adopted for other systems
14:58 Brooke I do think it will eventually be adopted
14:58 Brooke and yes
14:58 Brooke the whole pay for access to professional reading is something I've always taken a baseball bat to kneecaps over
14:58 Brooke so hey, American Libraries is free now
14:59 Brooke but I think it's good that I can read RDA now for free, even if it's not the format I might like
14:59 gmcharlt good about AL, but overdue - you would think library publications would have been the first to be published open access
14:59 Brooke :D
15:00 Brooke preaching to the choir mah brother!
15:00 Brooke I defy you to walk into a public Library and find a real useable section on Library Science
15:00 gmcharlt just atoning for once working for a subsidiary of Elsevier ;)
15:00 Brooke we care for ourselves last
15:01 Brooke *nod* I hear ya. El$ivier is evil
15:01 Brooke I used to say stuff like that in Collection Development
15:01 Brooke and the professor would just say "Brooke, Brooke, Brooke..." but laugh
15:02 Brooke but they do a good job of aggregating and presenting which is why they're around
15:03 Brooke can't gripe if you're not gonna fix it, which is why I'm trying to do slides of changes as I talk to people
15:03 Brooke so instead of just saying
15:03 Brooke hey, that sucks
15:03 Brooke I can say
15:03 Brooke hey, this not this
15:05 Brooke I'm going to the gym so I can think and exercise instead of typing and thinking which leads to leg cramps
15:22 gelinp hi, is there anyone to help me to install koha?
15:23 gelinp I've followed the install documentation at
15:24 atz and what's the hangup?
15:32 nahuel hi people :)
15:32 atz greets nahuel
15:32 nahuel the request in C4::Auth::get_user_subpermissions(), work on my mysql 5.0.67
15:32 kf hi nahuel
15:32 nahuel but doesn't in an install on one of our clients in mysql 5.0.27
15:33 nahuel hmm 5.0.18
15:33 nahuel should I patch the request ?
15:33 nahuel because koha support mysql >= 5.0
15:33 atz nahuel: what is special about it?
15:33 nahuel don't really know
15:33 nahuel a problem "joining"
15:33 nahuel ERROR 1054 (42S22): Unknown column 'code' in 'field list'
15:34 nahuel using : select user_permissions.code from user_permissions ....
15:34 nahuel it works
15:34 nahuel so It should be patched by :
15:34 atz SELECT flag, code  FROM user_permissions
15:34 atz   JOIN permissions USING (module_bit, code)
15:34 atz   JOIN userflags ON (module_bit = bit)
15:34 atz  JOIN borrowers USING (borrowernumber) WHERE userid = ?"
15:34 nahuel select user_permissions.code as code from user_permissions ....
15:34 nahuel the flag works :)
15:35 atz nahuel: check the table that it's looking at
15:35 nahuel the tables are the same :)
15:35 nahuel code field exists
15:35 nahuel etc...etc...
15:36 atz but yeah, i guess code is is in two tables, it should be referenced unambiguously by SELECT
15:36 atz not sure why it works in one and not the other though
15:37 nahuel I think it's a bug/evolution of mysql
15:37 atz we might have more places where that is a problem then too
15:37 atz perhaps w/ different tables
15:37 nahuel they make a lot of improvement between 5.0.x versions
15:38 nahuel this work : select flag, user_permissions.code as code from user_permissions join permissions using (module_bit,code) join userflags on (module_bit = bit) join borrowers using (borrowernumber)
15:38 atz yep, looks good
15:38 atz nice catching this error early
15:38 nahuel this doesn't work : select flag,  code from user_permissions join permissions using (module_bit,code) join userflags on (module_bit = bit) join borrowers using (borrowernumber) ;
15:38 nahuel :)
15:39 nahuel Well I send a patch now
16:04 gelinp the hang up is that the connexion http://localhost:8080 display "production mode - trapped fatal error"
16:05 atz gelinp: need to check your error log then
16:05 gelinp ok, where is the file, do you mean the error log of apache?
16:05 atz gelinp: there should be a Koha file referenced in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled
16:06 atz in that file it defines ErrorLog for OPAC and STAFF interface
16:06 atz you want the second one
16:07 gelinp ok thank you very much, I'm going to look for all of this...
16:07 atz probably you just have some prerequisite perl modules not installed
16:11 gelinp may be... I've just have a look into /etc/apache2/sites-enabled, there is only two files: koha and 000-default, not any log files...
16:12 atz right, you need to read the koha file
16:12 gelinp ok
16:12 atz or grep -i ErrorLog /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/koha
16:14 gelinp ErrorLog /var/log/koha/koha-opac-error_log
16:14 gelinp   ErrorLog /var/log/koha/koha-error_log
16:14 gelinp I think I have to have a look at the content of this files...
16:15 atz ok, so the 2nd one is your staff interface error log
16:15 gelinp ok
16:15 atz less  /var/log/koha/koha-error_log
16:15 atz (to read it)
16:17 gelinp I've got a lot of:DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'koha.language_descriptions' doesn't exist
16:18 gelinp also: DBD::mysql::st fetchrow_hashref failed: fetch() without execute()
16:19 gelinp or: Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at line 281.
16:19 atz it sounds like you haven't completed the command line portion of the install successfully
16:19 gelinp what do you mean?
16:20 atz the file /installer/data/mysql/kohastructure.sql  should have been loaded
16:20 atz and it creates all the tables, including: CREATE TABLE language_descriptions
16:22 acmoore using 'tail -50f' might make sure you're just looking at recent errors instead of old ones.
16:22 atz true, though there shouldn't be that many old ones since this is the first part of the install
16:26 gelinp the make test of the cgi component display:
16:26 gelinp t/g4_mysql......................skipped: Couldn't establish connection
16:26 gelinp with the MySQL server: Can't connect to data source '' because I can't
16:26 gelinp work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:'
16:26 gelinp prefix and the DBI_DRIVER env var is not set) at t/g4_mysql.t line 44
16:27 atz I don't think this is a problem with your version of
16:28 atz and that is just a skip message, not an error
16:28 gelinp ok
16:29 gelinp but why /installer/data/mysql/kohastructure.sql didn't load?
17:08 atz owen: something odd in the layout of jacket images here:
17:08 atz[…]
17:09 owen What are you seeing atz ?
17:10 atz at 4. the image placeholders shift to the right leaving an empty (unshaded) block under the first 3 placeholders
17:11 atz at 7. they go back with a populated jacket image
17:12 atz 9, 12-14, 16-17,19 are wide right again,=
17:12 owen I'm not seeing that in FF3 or IE6 on WinXP
17:13 atz hmm... ok must be a FF2/OSX thing
17:14 atz oddly erratic though
17:17 acmoore owen: see and for a screenshot of that.
17:17 acmoore It seems familiar, almost like I've seen this problem before.
17:18 owen I haven't.
19:07 atz gmcharlt: when is it logical for items to have no holdingbranch?
19:08 atz e.g. do we assume holdingbranch is homebranch if NULL?
19:08 gmcharlt atz: I think never, if holdingbranch is interpreted as branch item last seen at
19:08 atz ok, i think i might be seeing a data migration issue then
19:09 gmcharlt using homebranch value if holdingbranch is null is a sensible default, but not sure it's rigorously observed
19:09 owen In the past we've seen null holdingbranch for fresh imports, but that was with a custom 2.x import script
21:05 kados speaking of crashing FF, owen did you ever know bout that issue that happens on the 'Holds awaiting pickup' report?
21:05 owen Hm... I don't know
21:06 kados owen: it apparantly takes about 25 hours to load when you've got a few thousand entries
21:06 kados and it appeares to be an issue with browser rendering ...
21:06 owen Well, I can imagine
21:06 kados ie, maybe there's some really zany logic for YUI going on there?
21:07 owen There's a jquery tablesorter on that table. That'd be the cause.
21:08 owen Seems your clients are proving that no table is safe from being too big for the jquery tablesorter
21:09 kados :(
21:09 kados too bad, it's a nice feature
21:11 owen Maybe a syspref to turn table sorting on and off. I know NPL would like the feature.
21:11 owen I mean, I know NPL would like having the ability to sort on the fly.
21:12 kados yea, not a bad idea
03:39 ryan anyone around who knows what the 'ib' is in 'ibfk' naming convention for foreign keys ?
04:03 ryan ... to answer my own question , it looks like it's a mysql internal convention, and must have come from an auto-named fk from mysql.

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