IRC log for #koha, 2006-04-22

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:51 owen kados: you around?
14:08 kados owen: am now
14:09 owen What's the status of the 'you did not specify any search criteria' thing?
14:09 owen do I need to take that out of the template until we can get a working substitute?
14:10 kados hmmm
14:10 kados afaik it happens for quite a few searches
14:10 kados but it's related to the 'searchdesc' var not getting populated, right?
14:10 kados it's probably not difficult to fix, it would just take a bit of time
14:12 owen Since it's a very visible bug I'm inclined to take it out of the NPL templates until it can be fixed.
14:12 owen But I don't want to lose sight of it :)
14:12 kados right :-)
14:20 owen I'm going to Bug it. Should I be using 'branch 2.2' as the version?
14:22 kados yea
02:35 osmoze hello
02:36 mason quiety quiet here :)
02:36 mason hi ozmoze
02:36 mason osmoze even
02:37 mason its the start of a loong weekend here in NZ
02:37 osmoze not here :(
02:39 mason im having my first beer to celebrate :)
02:45 osmoze hoooooo, don't speak about's very hard to forget my beer of yesterday with my coffee
03:59 pierrick paul, HTML::Template->new() : Cannot open included file javascript/members.js : file not found. at /usr/share/perl5/HTML/ line 2178., referer: http://plegall:8080/cgi-bin/ko[…]s/
04:37 hdl pierrick: as-tu toujours le problème ?
04:40 pierrick as-tu rajouté le fichier ? je ne le vois pas CVS
04:40 pierrick (salut hdl)
04:40 hdl salut pierrick
04:41 pierrick (je bosse sur la 2.2 du coup, parce que sur HEAD, sans javascript, on ne peut pas valider le formulaire, oh misère :-/)
04:42 hdl pierrick: le member.js doit se trouver dans le includes du koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/default/en/
04:42 pierrick ???
04:42 hdl Ca doit être un oubli d'owen ou autres au moment du passage de default à prog.
04:43 pierrick pierrick@plegall:~/dev/koha/head$ find . -name members.js
04:43 pierrick ne retourne rien
04:53 btoumi hello
04:53 btoumi i'm bruno from  SAN OP
04:54 chris hello bruno
04:54 btoumi not  in bed (from paul that is near me)
04:54 btoumi ?
04:55 chris not yet
04:55 btoumi hi chris (it's paul)
04:55 chris paul will understand, its rugby season
04:55 btoumi ah;, ok
04:55 chris super 14 week 11 .. getting near to finals time
04:55 btoumi OM won 3-0 yesterday. Soccer, semi final cup for Coupe de France
04:55 chris paul, ill finish my speeches off tomorrow and email them to you
04:56 btoumi great, thnx
04:57 chris congrats to OM :)
04:58 pierrick Hi chris, btoumi and paul
04:59 chris je ne comprends pas
04:59 btoumi salut pierrick moi c bruno de ouest provence je suis avec paul
04:59 chris :-)
05:01 pierrick bonjour Bruno, j'avais compris :-)
05:02 btoumi ok
05:16 btoumi bye everybody
05:19 chris bye bruno
05:20 btoumi bye chris and good night
06:42 paul hello world, i'm back
07:51 kados hi paul
07:51 paul hi kados
07:51 paul 'morning
08:11 kados morning thd
08:20 pierrick hi kados
08:20 pierrick hi thd
08:21 pierrick paul, I have a problem with members.j
08:21 pierrick members.js
08:21 pierrick to validate a "add a member" form
08:24 thd hello pierrick and kados
08:24 hdl So Who has sthg to declare about member.js
08:24 hdl hello kados and thd.
08:25 thd hello hdl
08:28 pierrick hdl, paul must have members.js somewhere, he would have commited without testing the page :-)
08:28 pierrick s/would/wouldn't/
08:29 pierrick I suppose he only forget to add to CVS
08:31 hdl weird enough... I donot have any cvs message talking about members.js.
08:31 paul pierrick: you're right. It's fixed
08:34 paul pierrick: do you know docuwiki well ?
08:34 paul => how to create a "level 2 list" ?
08:34 paul (a sublist below a main list)
08:35 pierrick paul, I know Dokuwiki very well :-) (using it at least)
08:35 pierrick  * level1
08:35 pierrick    * level1.1
08:35 pierrick    * level1.2
08:35 pierrick  * level2
08:35 paul with 2 more spaces ?
08:35 pierrick yp
08:35 pierrick yes
08:36 paul much more easier than previous wiki.
08:37 pierrick :-D
08:38 pierrick about bug 659 (age limitations of borrower categories not taken into account), I propose to fix it only on HEAD
08:39 pierrick The bug is minor and old, they can wait for 3.0
08:39 pierrick paul, as 2.2 release maintainer, do you agree?
08:39 paul yep
08:42 pierrick go go go :-)
08:45 kados pierrick: I agree
08:45 kados pierrick: is the site ready in your opinion?
08:46 kados pierrick: if so, can you announce it on koha-devel and request that the old one forward to the new address?
08:46 pierrick kados, yes of course
08:46 pierrick we've lost some bits of information but not very much
08:47 pierrick because once the temporary migration was made, someone added information in the temporary wiki and other added info in the old wiki
08:48 kados ahh
08:49 kados i suppose we could request that person add to the new wiki, eh? :-)
08:49 paul kados: I hope it's ready : I use it only !!!
08:49 pierrick but much more informations have been added to the new wiki
08:49 kados ok, good
08:49 kados so we need to make an unambiguous announcement
08:50 kados and also have the maintainer of the old wiki forward the url to the new wiki if at all possible
08:50 pierrick kados, can you turn on registration on the wiki? (so that our logins are displayed next to our commit messages)
08:50 kados yes
08:52 paul pierrick: ++
08:52 paul (I searched where I could identify myself so many minuts ! )
08:55 kados pierrick: how do I turn it on?
08:55 kados pierrick: I see:
08:55 kados $conf['openregister']= 1;
08:58 pierrick let me see in my local copy...
08:58 kados thx
09:00 pierrick $conf['useacl'] = 1
09:03 kados pierrick: ok, it's added
09:03 kados hi tumer
09:04 kados pierrick: but it gives an error :/
09:04 kados pierrick: User authentication is temporarily unavailable. If this situation persists, please inform your Wiki Admin.
09:04 pierrick yes, I've seen
09:05 pierrick 1. cd conf; cp acl.auth.php.dist acl.auth.php
09:05 pierrick 2 cp users.auth.php.dist users.auth.php
09:05 pierrick 3. chmod a+w users.auth.php
09:06 pierrick (that's enough)
09:06 kados pierrick: done
09:08 pierrick $ cat users.auth.php
09:08 pierrick thank you Joshua :-)
09:09 paul kados & al : i've recieved tumer registration to KohaCon (2/3 may) 2 hours ago.
09:10 kados pierrick: it's working
09:10 paul kados: am I missing someone to devWeek : I thought we would be 16+Annaw, and I see 16 INCLUDING annaW.
09:10 kados hmmm
09:10 paul that's very important, as 15 means 3 cars while 16 means 4 !
09:11 kados right
09:11 kados where is the list posted?
09:11 paul (on the new wiki !)
09:13 kados paul: I'm going to edit the list slightly
09:13 kados paul: to add affiliations
09:14 kados paul: do you have a company name?
09:14 paul I'll add a page in the next minuts with some ideas for devWeek.
09:14 paul no, i'm just myself ;-)
09:16 kados paul: tumer is not on that list
09:16 paul right, but it's registration is only for 2/3 for instance
09:17 kados ahh, I'm looking at the wrong list
09:17 paul (i've asked by pm if he comes to devWeek too, but no answer yet)
09:17 tumer hi all
09:17 kados tumer: you are joining us at the dev week right?
09:17 kados tumer: what is the name of your library again?
09:17 paul hi tumer.
09:17 tumer I have to choose one or the other, wha do you suggest
09:18 paul the devWeek, for sure !
09:18 kados tumer: I suggest the dev week
09:18 kados tumer: we could really use your skills :-)
09:18 tumer OK být can not stay all week
09:18 kados no problem
09:18 paul how long could you stay ?
09:18 tumer say 3 days
09:19 kados tumer: let me know _which_ three days, and we'll make sure to have Zebra the priority for those three days
09:19 tumer kados: Near East university Grand library
09:20 kados tumer: thanks
09:20 tumer kados: and its in Cyprus not Turkey
09:20 kados ahh ... my bad :/
09:21 paul tumer: May 8th is closed in France. So it would be better to come for 9th-11 for example.
09:21 tumer kados: I'll try and make the first 3 days
09:22 tumer why I am closing aout repeteadly
09:22 paul tumer: 8-10 will be OK.
09:22 paul which is your closest international airport ?
09:23 tumer Larnaca
09:24 tumer I have to fly to Paris and then travel to Marseiles. My plane will arrive Paris around 15:00 so I may come on 7th Sunday
09:25 tumer Is there a problem with IRC its throwing me out
09:25 kados tumer: which IRC client are you using?
09:25 paul tumer: cheapest, although longest seems to use lufthansa : larnaca => athens=> franckfort=> marseille (9AM => 18:45)
09:25 tumer IceChat
09:26 paul no, alitalia is the best :
09:26 paul larnaca => roma => marseille (9:15 => 14:20)
09:26 paul 780¤
09:26 tumer via roma sounds interesting
09:27 paul return trip :
09:27 paul ALITALIA   De: Marseille (MRS)   Départ: 06:20 10/05/2006  
09:27 paul Classe Economique A: Larnaca (LCA) Arrivée: 17:55 10/05/2006
09:28 tumer Thanks paul I'll look into it
09:40 paul kados:
09:41 kados paul++
09:41 kados paul: I posted a mail to koha-devel regarding the dev week
09:42 kados paul: but this document is better :-)
09:42 paul when did you posted this mail ?
09:42 kados earlier today
09:43 paul did not reach me yet
09:43 kados :/
09:47 paul pierrick: you've commited something that requires Date::Calc
09:47 paul we used DateManip for 2.2, but want to get rid of it because it's VERY VERY VERY slow.
09:48 paul do you think Date::Calc is a good replacement ? we've been told that the default date package for Perl is the best to use
09:48 paul (question asked on fr.comp.os.perl by me 3 months ago)
09:48 pierrick I didn't take into account performance problem, sorry
09:49 paul it's a very important problem, as date calcs are in the middle of circulation
09:49 pierrick the function is used is very simple, so I can replace it by core functions if you prefer
09:49 paul and it's the module that requires the best perfs
09:58 hdl article mis en ligne.
10:28 kados paul: still there?
10:28 paul for sure
10:29 kados paul: just recieved a call from NBBC
10:29 kados paul: it seems that the numbering formula:
10:29 kados Vol. {X}, No,{Y}
10:29 kados X isn't increased as Y changes
10:30 kados they have:
10:30 kados   X   Y
10:30 kados Add: 1   1
10:30 kados Once  6   1
10:30 kados when > 999  9
10:30 kados loop is 2  0
10:31 kados set back to 1   1
10:31 kados last value 294   2
10:31 paul X should increase once every 6 issues.
10:31 kados correct
10:31 kados but it doesn't
10:31 kados subscription length is '6'
10:32 paul mmm... how many issues did you "recieve" already ?
10:32 kados could that be the problem?
10:32 kados 'the loop is for instance:' 2
10:32 paul mmm... probably : when you reach end of subscription, you can't change the status of the "waited" issue anymore.
10:32 paul but koha should told you this
10:32 paul (& add a button to "renew subscription")
10:33 kados well ... when 'end of subscription' is reached, koha asks if you want to renew
10:33 kados I assume they answered 'yes'
10:33 kados only two issues for this specific example
10:33 paul so, the subscription should en in 6 more issues.
10:33 kados Vol 294, No. 6
10:34 paul s/end/en/
10:34 kados Vol 295, No. 1
10:34 kados are listed correctly in
10:34 kados strange
10:36 paul if you have an access to their DB, you could look in issues table if there isn't something hidden
10:43 kados paul: ok, I confirm it's a problem
10:43 kados I created a new serial
10:44 kados set beginning value for X to 294 and for Y to '6'
10:44 kados (ie, the first issue they keep track of is the last one in a series)
10:44 kados when issue 6 is set to 'arrived'
10:45 kados next issue should be Vol 295 no 1
10:45 kados but in fact it's still Vol 294 No 1
10:45 kados so X didn't update
10:45 kados ha!
10:46 kados when it gets to 294 No 5
10:46 kados next issue is 295 no 6
10:46 kados definitely a bug
10:46 kados so it seems the only way to properly enter a subscription is to start with Vol X no 1
10:46 kados otherwise it fails
10:46 kados paul: can you confirm the bug?
10:46 kados if so, I'll file a bug report
10:48 kados hdl: did you notice it before I mentioned it?
10:48 kados hdl: or did you just now try it?
10:48 hdl You mentioned it months ago.
10:48 hdl But I never had time to work on it.
10:49 hdl I think it is not a very simple bug.
10:49 kados right ...
10:50 kados I'll tell my client the simple workaround
10:50 kados and file a bug report
10:50 hdl Filing a bug, you won't forget anymore ;)
10:50 kados heh
10:51 paul kados & hdl : ok, good analysis. I think it's not as complex to fix (just enable the library to fill the "inner loop" field.
10:51 kados hdl: IMO, this is a very common kind of bug in Koha
10:51 kados paul: ahh ... yes that may fix it
10:52 paul the more complex will be to do something a library will understand & be able to deal with easily !
10:52 kados yep
10:52 kados serials are quite complex already :-)
10:55 kados paul: shouldn't the inner loop always start as the same as 'begins with'?
10:55 paul no
10:56 paul let me explain :
10:56 kados ok, I don't understand, but I don't mind not understanding in this case ;-)
10:56 kados sure, you can explain
10:56 paul add 1 once every 12, start with 2006
10:56 paul means you will have 12 times 2006
10:56 kados right
10:57 paul what we need is "OK, we have 12 times a year, but we BEGIN at the issue 4, so for the 1st year, we will have only 8"
10:57 kados but I guess that just means 'begin each loop' with
10:57 paul no, it's the value for the 1st issue.
10:57 paul and this value is repeated 12 times.
10:58 paul where you want to repeat it only 8 times, because you start in the middle of a year
11:03 kados hmmm
11:04 kados the client has entered in several dozen serials with 'begins with' set incorrectly :/
11:04 kados it seems they have not choice but to re-enter them all manually
11:05 kados in fact, I don't see what the purpose of 'begins with' is
11:05 kados it seems redundent when you already have 'when more than' and 'set back to'
11:06 paul it's the 1st value to use.
11:06 paul nope.
11:06 kados but 'set back to' is always the same as 'begins with'
11:06 paul it deals with the following case :
11:06 paul let me explain ;-)
11:06 kados ok :-)
11:06 paul you begin in april.
11:07 paul so your serials will be :
11:07 paul 2006-4, 2006-5, 2006-6 ... 2006-12
11:07 paul thus :
11:07 paul begins with 4
11:07 paul when more than 12
11:07 paul set back to 1
11:07 paul for Y the fact that you begin in the middle of the year is correctly managed.
11:08 kados yes, for Y only though
11:08 paul but for X it is not (due to the missing of inner loop)
11:08 kados I see
11:08 kados but I still think inner loop could be the same as 'begins with' for Y
11:08 kados or at least it could be calculated
11:08 kados based on the values in the form
11:10 paul you may be right.
11:10 paul but that would be very hard to manage efficiently & without bugs !
11:10 paul the best would be to have the wizard katipo is working on...
11:10 kados yes, I agree
11:14 kados paul: IMO this is a very common bug in Koha
11:14 kados paul: a feature is 'advertised' as working, when in fact, it does not work
11:14 paul what do you mean by "common" ?
11:15 kados I mean there are many examples of similar bugs
11:15 kados to the client, it looks like 'begins with' works correctly
11:15 paul if the problem is not reported by anyone, it can't be fixed ! nobody reported this one (& I don't remember you already speak of this as hdl says)
11:16 kados and there is no warning to say 'it doesn't work at all'
11:16 kados so your clients who use serials always start subscriptions with No. 1?
11:16 paul mmm... it's not "it doesn't work at all" => if you start your subscription at the beginning of a year, it works !
11:16 kados 'begins with' doesn't work
11:16 kados it only accepts one value
11:17 paul yes, it seems (although it's not because I told them to do like this !)
11:17 kados so IMO it shouldn't allow entry of inproper values
11:17 paul i disagree with you : it's really "begins with 2006", BUT "use this only 8 times, not 12 as usual"
11:18 kados perhaps I'm missunderstanding the purpose of 'begins with'
11:18 kados I thought it was supposed to be used to tell Koha which issue the subscription is starting with
11:19 kados ie, I'm starting with Vol. 245 No. 1
11:19 kados or I'm starting with Vol 245 No. 4
11:19 paul then X start with 245.
11:19 kados if it only accepts Vol. X No. 1 and not Vol X. No Y should clearly tell the user that
11:19 kados it should not accept a Y value for 'begins with' other than 1
11:20 paul except you have numbering highly more complex than this one !
11:20 paul with X / Y and Z, each having it's own numbering formula
11:20 kados of course, but I only deal with one simple case
11:20 paul i've already encountered tihngs like this :
11:20 kados so for example, say I buy a new subscription, it will not start at issue #1
11:21 kados most likely it will start in the middle of the year
11:21 paul X = year Y = quarter (from school pov : 1 is sept-> dec, 2 is jan->march), Z=month
11:21 kados so Vol 230 #6 maybe
11:21 kados so do I 'lie' to Koha and say I started av Vol 230 #1?
11:21 kados just to make sure that the numbering formula is correct?
11:21 kados or do I wait until Vol 231 to start keeping track in Koha?
11:22 kados (ie, 6 issues/months where the serial is not managed in Koha)
11:22 kados (yes, that example is quite complex I agree)
11:23 kados so for Koha 2.X, let's be unambiguous about it for 2.4
11:23 paul they coud just create the subscription and then modify it (inner loop)
11:23 kados 'begins with' ONLY WORKS FOR X values
11:24 paul for example : 2006 #6 during creation
11:24 paul then modify the subscription & enter the correct inner loop that is set to 1.
11:24 kados inner loop in that example should be 6?
11:24 paul if you have a monthly issue & are in july => set it to 12-6
11:24 paul right !
11:25 paul as innerloop will grow until it reaches 12 (whereas 2006 will become 2007)
11:25 paul (and innerloop be back to 1)
11:25 kados so IMO inner loop is always the same as 'begins with' for subscriptions with only X and Y
11:25 paul you can't say this, because (at least in france), you often have !
11:25 paul :
11:25 paul N° 1-2006
11:25 paul so X & Y are inverted !
11:25 kados ahh!
11:26 kados I didn't notice that case
11:26 paul no, the good solution is to let the librarian enter innerloop is (s)he want to start a subscription in the middle of a "year"
11:27 paul but it will be hard to explain clearly !!!
11:27 kados right ... I understand now
11:27 kados so temporary workaround is to modify inner loop
11:30 paul yep
11:32 kados ok, called the client, they are happy with this solution
11:32 paul great !
11:32 kados thanks paul!
11:33 paul your welcome.
11:33 kados for 2.4 IMO there should be a notice in red letters warning of this issue
11:33 kados at the very least, it should be in the help file
11:33 paul (would be easier to add the innerloop in form & find something explanatory)
11:40 kados paul: do you plan to do this for 2.4?
11:40 paul I did not, but now I may ;-)
11:40 paul (however, devWeek will happend before 2.4, so let's speak of it during devweek !!!)
11:42 kados ok
11:49 kados paul: we will have internet access for 100% certain at devweek, right?
11:49 kados via wifi?
11:50 paul for sure we will have web access
11:50 kados great
11:50 paul via wifi or maybe without wifi too.
11:50 kados ok
11:50 paul we should have 2 16ports hubs
11:51 kados paul: did tumer tell you what dates he will attend?
11:51 paul & we will be inside a university, so something like 100MB+ network
11:51 paul (renater network)
11:51 paul kados: no, he just spoke of arriving on sunday 7th
11:51 paul but not sure
11:52 kados for groups ...
11:52 kados maybe one group for Zebra
11:52 kados Tumer, Chris, Me, You?
11:52 kados HDL and Pierrick maybe?
11:53 paul not me+hdl in the same group I think
11:53 kados ahh
11:53 paul I thought pierrick could work on installer
11:53 kados will slef attend?
11:53 paul he registered for paris
11:53 kados ahh
11:54 kados slef: are you here?
11:54 kados slef: will you be attending DevWeek in Marseille?
11:59 kados paul: is there any way to generate a list of all current subscriptions in Koha?
11:59 kados paul: a secret search perhaps? :-)
11:59 paul %
11:59 paul :-)
11:59 kados ahh ...
11:59 kados it works!
11:59 kados great!

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