IRC log for #koha, 2006-02-05

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
11:07 shedges hi audrey -- isn't it the middle of the night there in NZ?
11:07 kados morning shedges
11:07 kados paul: quick question
11:08 paul audray didn't wrote on this channel since i wake up shedges
11:08 paul should be sleeping !
11:08 paul a good news : with yaz 2.1.12, my script works fine !!!!
11:08 shedges right -- but maybe she's not accustomed to NZ time yet.
11:08 paul alleluia !!!
11:08 kados paul: great!
11:08 shedges that's really great!!
11:09 shedges morning owen
11:09 paul (but still problem #1 unanswered...)
11:09 paul all Athen's team is there today !
11:09 kados would it be hard to modify serials to allow an option for adding a MARC item (ie, add barcode, etc.)?
11:09 paul (do you plan to look at superbowl this week end ?)
11:10 kados :-)
11:10 kados morning owen
11:10 paul (in France, a public TV chanel boughts the TV rights for the 1st time. 150 000¤. But it will be between 11PM and 3AM :-( )
11:10 kados heh
11:10 kados hehe
11:10 kados best part is the commercials
11:11 paul yep, that's what everybody says in France. But i'm afraid we will not have your ads in France...
11:11 kados too bad ... it won't be the same :-)
11:11 paul so, back to your question :
11:11 paul would it be hard to modify serials to allow an option for adding a MARC item (ie, add barcode, etc.)?
11:11 kados right
11:12 paul nope. and that's what hdl wrote on koha-devel yesterday !
11:12 paul that will be in 2.2.6 for sure.
11:12 kados ahh ... I didn't notice that ...
11:12 paul ;-)
11:12 kados great news!
11:12 paul Steelers cap ???
11:13 owen http://news6.steelers.com/catalog/HatsScarves/
11:15 shedges right -- except mine is not "official" -- it's the $3.95 version from WalMart.
11:15 kados paul: (does the current serials support email communication with suppliers?)
11:16 paul ??? no, if I understand correctly
11:16 kados wouldn't be hard to add this feature though
11:16 |hdl| Koha is not supposed to be an email manager.
11:17 |hdl| you have Thunderbird or Evolution or even outlook.
11:17 paul |hdl| : it would be nice to be able to send in 1 clic a list of late issues to a supplier.
11:17 paul (as well as a list of late orders in fact)
11:18 |hdl| yes, but then, it could be a pdf. But then, should be stored. yes.
11:19 |hdl| And then... new tables...
11:19 |hdl| modifications in the db Structure.
11:19 paul I really should open a dolibarr account for you. You'll see how useful it is ;-)
11:19 paul right, but kados didn't ask for 2.2.6 ;-)
11:21 paul lol
11:25 kados talk to you chaps later
11:29 owen good luck kados
11:29 kados thx
13:00 kados paul: still around?
13:00 paul yep
13:00 paul (5PM in France)
13:01 kados paul: /me wonders if any of paul's customers have wanted a 'browse' feature for the reservoir
13:01 paul pls explain a little bit more
13:01 kados one of my clients has found it difficult to search for items in the reservoir
13:01 kados because the search is not very forgiving
13:02 kados so instead of searching, they wonder if they can just look at a list of items
13:02 paul he is not wrong here. It's not very cute.
13:02 paul one of my library has 40 000 lines in the reservoir. so the list must be limited to something !!!
13:03 kados I see
13:03 shedges right -- the reservoir is usually much bigger than the catalog
13:03 shedges (if they're using z3950)
13:04 kados any ideas for how to improve things?
13:04 paul (on phone)
13:05 shedges will the improved searching in 3.0 help?
13:07 kados I doubt it since the reservoir won't be stored in Zebra
13:07 kados at least I don't think it will
13:07 kados unless paul has plans to store it in a separate Zebra db (not a bad idea actually)
13:09 kados shedges: btw: regarding that email you forwarded to me on serials
13:10 shedges yep
13:10 kados it sounds like the next version of serials support will do exactly as you describe
13:10 kados in addition to listing the issues that have arrived (as serials do now in Koha)
13:10 shedges good -- I was only hearing talk about better management
13:10 kados you'll also be able to link an issue to an item record
13:10 kados add a barcode, notes (title?), etc.
13:11 shedges that should do it.
13:38 paul back
13:40 paul kados : no, no idea for how to improve things. And no plans either. But could change if I succeed to make zebra work :-(
13:40 kados paul: I thought you did get zebra working
13:41 paul no, I just succeeded to solve 1 of my 2 problems !
13:42 paul i've sent a mail to koha-zebra 2 hours ago for the remaining one.
13:47 kados ok
13:47 kados 50% fixed ... not bad :-)
13:48 paul ok, It's 6PM, I have to leave.
13:48 paul I'm afraid i won't be here next monday.
13:48 paul (for chat)
13:48 paul because I have a meeting with a customer mon/tue
13:49 paul in montpellier (near hdl home)
13:49 paul i'll see on monday evening if I can drive to hdl house and be here.
13:50 owen Strangely, koha-zebra mail always arrives before koha-devel mail for me
13:50 paul (but don't wait for me : if im' too tired, i'll go to bed)
14:00 kados owen: I wonder if that has to do with the number of people subscribed
14:01 owen That would make sense
16:08 kados |hdl|: still around?
16:09 |hdl| yep
16:09 |hdl| kados ?
16:09 kados |hdl|: I'm going to start sending a 'koha 3.0 update' every week
16:09 kados to koha-devel
16:09 |hdl| Super.
16:10 kados and I'm wondering if you or paul could send me a weekly note about what you have done in the past week and what you plan to do in the future week
16:10 kados so if I send it on Saturday for instance, it would be useful to have this list by Friday
16:10 kados is that a possiblity?
16:10 kados (not a long list, just a few sentances)
16:10 kados like:
16:11 kados hdl: worked on serials, added XX feature
16:11 kados paul: will fix bug XXX
16:11 kados etc.
16:11 |hdl| It is so kindly asked. ;)  
16:11 kados :-)
16:11 |hdl| Maybe it will include both changes : 2.2.5 and 3.0
16:11 kados sure
16:12 kados will all 2.2.5 changes be ported to 3.0?
16:12 |hdl| The should be.
16:12 |hdl| But who will do ?
16:12 kados not sure ... maybe me :-)
16:12 |hdl| I dont have a working koha-dev version.
16:13 |hdl| And didn't updated for a helle of a time.
16:13 kados it's too bad we can branch 2.2.5 again ... and have that be HEAD
16:13 kados there is so much stability in 2.2.5 now
16:13 |hdl| yes...
16:13 kados and not much new features in HEAD I think
16:13 |hdl| But then farewell, progtemplates and so on and so forth ...
16:13 kados yep
16:14 kados bad idea :-)
16:14 kados ok ... so I guess I'll be backporting :-)
16:14 |hdl| zebra is quite a huge feature :)
16:14 kados (or forwardporting in this case)
16:14 kados yep
16:14 kados so ... summary lists
16:14 |hdl| I or paul will.
16:15 kados great, thanks
16:15 |hdl| Anyway, It has been som time since we talk about time management.
16:15 |hdl| would it be english or french.
16:21 kados |hdl|: english please :-)
16:22 |hdl| for you eyes only :D
16:22 |hdl| french would have been in case it was only for OUR timeschedule ;)
16:23 kados ahh :-)
16:23 kados |hdl|: one further question if you have time
16:23 kados |hdl|: in cataloging
16:23 kados why would a library use multiple 'frameworks'?
16:24 kados would it be for different formats? like 'book' vs 'map'?
16:25 |hdl| not only
16:26 |hdl| It is a way to smartly display information.
16:26 kados ahh, so to customize the display of cataloging
16:26 |hdl| Yes.
16:27 |hdl| would it be for input or display biblio.
16:28 |hdl| fwk are only when MARC=ON as far as I know.
16:28 kados ahh
16:28 |hdl| non-MARC have limited fields.
16:28 kados I thought it only changed the way things looked
16:28 |hdl| Not only.
16:29 |hdl| Then the marc bases and authorities are not used anymore.
16:29 kados ahh, I didn't realize that
16:29 |hdl| bases are much smaller.
16:29 |hdl| but you donot have MARC flexibility.
16:29 |hdl| Talking about MARC.
16:30 |hdl| what is the diference between MARC-21 holding and bibliographic
16:30 |hdl| what is the diference between MARC-21 authorities and classification
16:31 |hdl| Can you explain to me this strange word holding.
16:31 kados sure
16:31 |hdl| I know what it is in finance.
16:31 |hdl| But with books....
16:31 kados 'holdings' means 'what is held' by the library
16:31 kados meaning what they 'have'
16:32 kados so they have a barcode, call number, classification maybe, etc.
16:32 |hdl| Is that items ?
16:32 kados kind of
16:32 |hdl| tell me more.
16:32 kados bibliographic is just the record information : title, author, etc.
16:32 kados holdings is probably 100% equiv to items in Koha in most cases
16:33 kados authorities vs classification:
16:33 kados authorities is normalized values for subjects or authors
16:33 kados classification is dewey, LOC, etc.
16:34 kados does that explain it?
16:34 |hdl| OK
16:34 |hdl| But, if I understand, you tell me that you haveat least two different MARC bases for a library : MARC bibliographics and MARC holdings.
16:35 kados not normally
16:35 kados normally I get one large MARC file
16:35 kados it includes bibliographic and holdings
16:36 kados if they have authorities I get two more MARC files
16:36 kados one for author, one for subject
16:36 kados when did I say I got two different bases?
16:37 |hdl| But If you have one MARC norm for holdings and another one for bibliographic. (saw it on LOC)
16:37 |hdl| you must have in zebra two config files, one for holdings and one for bibliogrphic.
16:38 |hdl| Do I misunderstand something? or miss a point ?
16:38 |hdl| Are holdings tags and subfields all different from bibliographic ones,
16:39 |hdl| that could make it possible for biblio to be room-mate with holdings.
16:40 |hdl| In UNIMARC, there are only two norms, one for bobliographical data, one for authorities.
16:40 |hdl| But 200 have different meaning in UNIMARC and UNIMARC-A...
16:43 kados I'm not sure
16:43 kados I think all holdings tags/subfields are different from bibliographic
16:43 kados so they can be in the same record
16:43 kados so only one config is necessary (I think)
16:43 kados |hdl|: do you know how I can get URLs to display on the OPAC?
16:44 kados |hdl|: is there a sys pref for that?
16:45 kados I thought I committed some code that would display it but it seems paul has taken it out of 2.2.5?
16:46 |hdl| I happened to see such prefs. but cannot get it right now.
16:47 |hdl| But there is a URL check box in marc_subfield_structure.pl
16:47 |hdl| Maybe this one ?
16:48 kados huh ...
16:51 kados yes, that works
16:51 kados but in non-MARC view the 856$u does not display
16:51 kados I had committed some code that would make it display in non-MARC
16:51 kados but it seems it's been deleted :(
17:14 kados |hdl|: if you're still there ... one final question :-)
17:14 kados |hdl|: could you explain to me how to add a new system preference
17:14 |hdl| in db, add a new syspref.
17:15 |hdl| then modify updatedatabase so that it will be taken into account.
17:15 |hdl| or syspref add a new one.
17:15 kados right ... I was wondering if you used that
17:16 |hdl| But make some tries beacaus organization is quite messy.
17:16 kados I would like to add a new 'navigation URL' preference for the OPAC
17:16 kados not really a preference though
17:16 kados it would be a place to add a list of URLS
17:17 kados (hmmm, maybe in fact, it should just be a place to add an HTML string)
17:17 kados the purpose is to have a customized navigation bar on the left-hand side
17:17 kados with links to other library resources, etc.
17:19 kados syspref table wont work for storing HTML
17:19 kados the fields are too small
17:20 kados |hdl|: do you have a suggestion on how to add this feature?
17:22 kados maybe a new table
17:22 |hdl| 3.0 could use blobs.
17:22 |hdl| and not
17:22 |hdl| Are you sure that Free type variable is not enough ?
17:23 |hdl| Textarea sorry
17:23 |hdl| Here is what I get in one ISBD field :
17:23 |hdl| #200||{<b>200a</b>}{ / 200e}{ - <i>200c</i>}{, <i>200d</i>}{ : 200v}|
17:23 kados it might
17:23 |hdl| #200|<p><label>Auteurs</label>|{ 200f, }{200g, }{200k, }|</p>
17:23 |hdl| #200|<p><label>Type doc.</label>|{200b}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #101|<p><label>Langue(s)</label>|{ 101a }{vo:101c}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #010|<p><label>ISBN</label>|{010a}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #011|<p><label>ISSN</label>|{011a}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #210|<p><label>Publié en</label>|{210d}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #210|<p><label>Editeur</label>|{210c, }|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #205|<p><label>Mentions ed.</label>|{205a}{ 205b}|</p>
17:24 kados probably then :-)
17:24 |hdl| #225|<p><label>Titre coll</label>|{ 225a, }{v. 225v }{fs 225h }|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #215|<p><label>Pagination</label>|{215a} {lim.215c}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #215|<p><label>Annexes :</label>|{215e}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #315|<p><label>Support :</label>|{315a}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #328|<p><label>Thèses/Cours</label>|{ 328a }{ 328d }{<i>328s</i>}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #328|<p><label>Laboratoires</label>|{<b>328f</b>}{ <i>328l</i> }{328r}{328c}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #710|<p><label>CR congrès</label>|<a href="opac-search.pl?op=do_search&marclist=710​a&operator==&type=intranet&value={710a}"><img border="0" src="/opac-tmpl/css/en/images/filefind.png" height="15" title="Rechercher ce congrès"></a>{710d°} {<b>710a</b>}{ 710b}{ 710e }{ - 710s }{ - 710c}{ - 710f}|</p>
17:24 |hdl| #606|<p><p>Sujets</p>|<p><a href="opac-search.pl?op=do_search&marclist=606​9&operator==&type=intranet&value={6069}"><img border="0" src="/opac-tmpl/css/en/images/filefind.png" height="15" title="Rechercher ce sujet"></a>{ 606a \n }|</p><p></p>
17:24 |hdl| #995|<p><h2>Exemplaires :</h2><table border=0>|<tr border=0><td>{995b}</td><td>{995k}</​td><td>{995f}</td></tr>|</table></p>
17:31 kados |hdl|: how do I put the new systempref into the template?
17:32 |hdl| in *.pl : C4::Context->preference("name") gives you pref value.
17:33 kados right, got it
17:33 kados thanks
17:35 kados yay ... it works :-)
17:35 kados http://opactest.liblime.com/cg[…]tail.pl?bib=23714
17:38 audrey audrey is finally back
17:39 audrey could I send kados an email detailing what the Horowhenua Library has been communicating with Katipo about--that is concerning the serials module?
17:41 kados audrey: please do
17:41 kados audrey: jmf @ liblime . com
17:42 kados audrey: I plan to write a 'Koha 3.0 Update' email tomorrow (and every Saturday until it is released)
17:42 kados audrey: so that will be very useful
17:43 |hdl| audrey : I am interested too henridamien at koha-fr dot org
17:43 |hdl| working soon on serials itemization
17:43 audrey kados: cool, the email will be coming right up.
18:16 kados morning chris
19:04 audrey Kados and hdl: I have finally sent the email. If you would like more information than it offers, Rosalie and I will be listening on IRC for 2 more hours.
19:04 audrey Cheers!
19:04 kados audrey: thanks, reading it now
19:05 kados audrey: I could be wrong, but I think all of those issues have alraedy been addressed by hdl
19:06 kados |hdl|: can you confirm?
19:06 kados audrey: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/h[…]-02/msg00009.html
19:07 kados though I cant tell by that email whether hdl will provide for 'issuing' the serial
19:08 kados but I imagine the answer is yes
19:08 kados so ...
19:08 kados problem #1: already solved in 2.2.5 I believe
19:09 kados problem #2: yes, but to solve this we need to fix reserves process
19:10 kados because currently, reserves are placed at the level of biblioitem
19:10 kados and for MARC users, biblio=biblioitem
19:11 kados problem #3: should be solved by hdl's proposed link between item and serial
19:11 kados audrey: you still here?
19:22 aud I am still here
19:22 aud I am glad that you guys are working on all of these problems
19:36 kados aud: I've sent an email to the group
19:37 kados it explains my ideas :-)
00:56 kados thd: you around?
00:56 kados thd: got your email
00:56 kados thd: I'm wondering whether you can be the one to commit the needed changes proposed in your email
00:58 thd kados: I could be
00:58 kados which koha table name is reserved?
00:59 thd kados: yet there would be no point if people were not going to use it.  I hoped to have either agreement or an alternate proposal before committing.
01:00 kados well, if you write a framework to use, and it works well, I will support it
01:00 thd kados: It is a column name in the first link within the message.
01:00 kados ?
01:00 kados which one?
01:00 kados ahh, I see
01:01 kados we need to change that column name
01:01 thd kados: there is no reason to change the column name
01:02 thd kados: just quote it
01:03 thd kados: will you let the database reserved words now and in the future prevent you from using the most logical names for your purpose?
01:04 thd kados: quoting is not difficult except the MySQL quotes backwards from the rest of the world :)
01:04 thd s/except the/except that/
01:06 thd kados: The second link explains about quoting but I revise my previous proposal about quoting in this more comprehensive proposal
01:13 thd kados: There had been general agreement on #koha about my earlier brief outline 2 months ago but I want comment about the actual proposed implementation from the same people who are committing code regularly and I would hope will use the proposal instead of ignoring it..
01:17 thd kados: are you there?
01:19 kados yep
01:23 thd kados: Do you know why indicators were left off of the team 42 opencataloger?
01:48 kados thd: they didn't know about indicators
01:48 kados thd: they will be in the next version
01:48 kados (which may be xul)
01:48 kados thd: you there?
01:48 thd kados: yes
01:48 kados I'm almost done with the LibLime 2.2.5 demo
01:49 kados http://opactest.liblime.com
01:49 kados http://kohatest.liblime.com
01:49 kados circ / liblime
01:49 kados still some things to add on the intranet side
01:49 thd kados: they did not read the docs on http://www.loc.gov/marc/ ?
01:49 kados (like a system pref for style sheet)
01:49 kados thd: :-)
01:50 kados thd: what do you think this is, MIT?
01:50 kados thd: it's Ohio University :-)
01:50 thd kados: docs are to long for such a brief class
01:50 kados thd: yep
01:50 thd kados: Still very impressive in the time
01:50 kados thd: the LibLime OPAC demo that you see has 0 non-committed template code
01:51 kados thd: everything's been paramaterized
01:51 kados thd: css, images, list of nav links
01:51 kados still got a bit more to do
01:51 kados but it's coming along
01:52 thd kados: you are now referring to Amazon?
01:52 kados thd: you can be my first tester :-)
01:52 kados thd: yep, amazon too
01:52 kados thd: I added several system preferences to rel_2_2
01:52 kados several for Amazon.com content
01:52 kados and one for the left-hand nav bar
01:52 thd kados: where is the search inside the book link?
01:52 kados on the details page
01:53 thd kados: this page ? http://opactest.liblime.com/cg[…]tail.pl?bib=21752
01:53 thd is that the details page?
01:54 kados opac-detail is the details page, ues
01:54 thd kados: but there is a search inside the book image but not link to an actual search
01:54 thd box.
01:55 kados um
01:55 kados well if you click on the link
01:55 kados you'll see the search box at the top
01:55 kados in addition to being able to read the book online
01:55 thd kados: I tried that.  I now try again.
01:55 kados (or at least what part of the book amazon will let you read online)
01:56 kados working for me
01:56 kados takes me to:
01:56 kados http://www.amazon.com/gp/reade[…]38422#reader-link
01:57 thd kados: I forgot I had quit my server connection when it did not work before.
01:58 thd kados: That part is fine now, I just forgot all the reasons I had quit my X session :)
01:58 kados http://opactest.liblime.com/cg[…]etail.pl?bib=8937
01:58 kados there's one with the nice starred rating
01:58 kados showing up
01:59 kados as well as some funny reviews :-)
02:05 thd kados: The contrary of that review was the bug in Open Office that imposed the GPL license on your Open Office documents :)
02:06 kados er?
02:14 thd kados: maybe I missed something in my lost connection.
02:14 thd kados: er? ?
02:24 kados ?
02:24 kados ahh, you're trying to obtain a key?
02:24 kados good man, I need a tester :-)
02:26 kados thd: you can use my numbers for now if you want to test
02:28 thd kados: I have my own I just wanted to check the user agreement to be sure that you and other Koha users were not violating some fine point of required linking.
02:29 kados nope, I've already contacted amazon about that
02:30 thd kados: I seem to remember some wording about the price but that may have only applied if the price was included in the display.
02:30 thd kados: Did they make any special allowance for Koha?
02:33 thd kados: I guarantee to find even very obscure bugs which no one else would ever notice as well as the ones librarians care about greatly and no one else would :)
02:34 kados amazon allows using the content as long as one link goes back to their page
02:34 kados the 'search inside' link goes back to their page
02:34 kados I asked them if it was ok, they said it was fine
02:40 thd kados: I was imagining there was something even more needed to push even more books for them :)
02:48 thd good night kados

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