IRC log for #koha, 2005-09-14

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:36 owen Hi shaun
12:37 shaun owen: h
12:37 shaun i
12:54 thd kados: are you present?
12:56 owen I think kados is out for the day
13:10 thd owen: I have seen his changes to which had not appeared to be on CVS last night when I checked.
13:23 hdl owen : did you happen to receive orders ?
13:23 owen hdl: I don't understand
13:24 hdl I wonder if you have ever used Acquisitions.
13:24 hdl And especially recieve items.
13:24 owen I've only used it to test functionality.  I've never used it in the 'real world'
13:25 hdl I wonder how people do to receive multiple items to provide barcodes.
13:25 hdl Is there a hidden sep... That I don't know of.
13:26 owen I'm afraid I don't know
13:29 thd hdl: What do you mean by receiving multiple items.  Only one Item at a time can be received currently.
13:30 hdl But you can say I received <MoreThan1> Books :)
13:31 thd hdl: If only saying things would implement them in Koha :)
13:32 hdl In account details, you have a box : quantity received !!!
13:32 hdl So I thought you could receive more than 1 item at a time.
13:32 hdl ;)
13:33 hdl OK.
13:33 hdl Time for my darling
13:33 thd hdl: really I will look.  You can certainly order multiples in normal acquisitions.
13:35 hdl_away thx
13:45 thd hdl_away: you wrote of a normal acquisitions function.  Normal acquisitions has been broken since 1.2.3  chris is fixing it for 2.2.3 for some prospective 2.2.3 users he has.
13:48 thd hdl_away: He expects to have normal acquisitions working for 2.2.3 by the end of the month.  I suspect that the worst issues breaking normal acquisitions are template problems.
13:55 kados thd: am now
13:56 thd kados: I looked at the changes you made to the
13:56 kados ok
13:56 kados did you try it out?
13:57 thd kados: To really try it I would need a working scanner at hand.
13:57 kados ahh ;-)
13:57 thd kados: I sold my scanner when I had needed some money :{
13:58 kados hehe
13:59 thd kados: I do have some CueCat scanners but neutering them without breaking them takes a fair amount of time.
14:00 thd at least with the tools that I have.
14:01 thd kados: Have you tried it?  I can still read the source.
14:02 thd kados: The code is actually somewhat confused since Paul changed the generated code from EAN-13 to code 128 in November while the number going in seems to still be designed as basically EAN-13.
14:07 thd kados: the code still supplies a country code for EAN-13.  If it is code 128, I believe that  there should be an option for no country code.  That would fix the leading '00' problem for the US if your scanner is returning it.
14:11 thd kados: your changes do nothing to the actual code generated or better to the code returned by the scanner in Koha.  Was your problem essentially that your scanner returned the generated code as is which caused a problem for interpreting in Koha with the country code prefixed and the check digit appended?
14:12 thd kados: Are you still there?
15:24 thd owen: kados had referred to a radio button for setting exact search last week when he was communicating to you about the function not working.  I did not see a radio button in the NPL catalogue templates.  I did see the 'Is equal to' setting in the drop down list for MARC field searching in the intranet catalogue.
15:25 owen That's all I see too.  I don't know what kados was referring to.
15:25 owen The radio button is in an older version of Koha, not the current one.
15:26 thd owen: Oh, I thought kados only played with the current versions.  When was the radio button removed?
15:27 owen kados was talking about the current version, but I'm not sure what he was referring to--whether it was the 'is equal to' option or something else.
15:27 owen The radio button was in an older version that searched the biblio table instead of the MARC tables
15:28 owen[…]ha/
15:28 kados yea but it's there on the Intranet MARC search
15:28 kados and it works like a charm!
15:29 kados it's really the only way to search for 'C.S. Lewis"
15:31 thd kados: Is the MARC search not in the OPAC because it is appallingly slow?
15:32 owen the OPAC uses a MARC search, just not the advanced features available in the intranet
15:32 owen No patron should be expected to use an interface that requires them to know what information is in what MARC tag
15:33 thd owen: Is it not also appallingly slow when there are as many biblios as NPL has?
15:34 owen I'll try it again now, since I hardly ever use it
15:35 owen Heh.... It doesn't even seem to be working on our site.  I guess no one else uses it either!
15:36 thd owen: I remember some very old discussion, possibly from koha-devel, about some searches being very slow at NPL.
15:36 owen Trying it out on our test server (which has an identical database), it seems fine.  No speed issues compared to normal searches
15:37 thd owen: I had thought that one part of the issue was lack of indexing.  Perhaps you would need to search some nonstandard fields/subfields that were not indexed.
15:38 thd unless that problem had been fixed.
15:40 owen I tried searching for all books that were 214 pages long, and it was very speedy
15:42 thd owen: there are semantic labels on the form value lists so that it has greater accessibility than a form which merely had '245 $a' instead of '245a  title' as it has now.
15:43 owen Hunh?
15:44 thd owen: you said that the OPAC user should not be expected to know where to search for information in a MARC search form.
15:45 thd owen: That is true, but there are at least names instead of merely codes on this form.
15:45 owen The main thing the advanced MARC search offers is the ability to use and, not, starts with, contains etc.
15:46 owen (the main thing it could offer the public, that is)
15:46 thd owen: And also other fields such as extent.
15:47 owen So that a high-schooler can come in and say, "Give me any books on WWII that are shorter than 100 pages" ? :)
15:47 thd owen: searching on pagination could be very valuable in a large collection.
15:48 thd own: my searches would be for greater than 200 pages with an index.
15:50 thd owen: the problem with searching for pagination is that it is not the only information stored in the extent field.
15:52 thd owen: It would need to be separately indexed in a local use field or otherwise to work well so that it did not always match or always fail.
15:55 owen kados: I'm still not sure we're talking about the same thing with the exact search.  Are you talking about the 'is equal to' option in the MARC fields search?
16:07 thd owen: pagination is frequently given as xvi, 234 p. for example.  Some script would need to extract the digits in advance else the comparison would be done on the coded value of everything.  In some instances there are multiple numbers for pagination, and then of course volumisation is substituted for pagination for multi-volume sets.
16:10 thd owen: can I just use quotes around a set of search terms in the OPAC form for a phrase search?
16:11 owen No, I don't think that works anywhere in Koha
16:13 thd owen: does 'is equal to' match only the whole field or any phrase anywhere within the field?
16:13 owen It should match the whole field, if it works as expected
16:18 thd owen: It requires even trailing punctuation.  It is an exact string match.
16:18 owen That's how the old 'exact' option worked.  You had to be exact to the letter.  Not very useful in most cases.
16:18 thd owen: just as labelled.  Very precise :)
16:19 thd owen: Is there a new exact option? :)
16:19 owen You're soaking in it.
16:20 kados it would be trivial to take out punctuation
16:20 kados I was talking about the 'is equal to'
16:20 kados it works very well for certain applications
16:20 kados like finding 'Lewis, C.S.'
16:20 kados where Koha currently mucks things up quite a bit
16:20 thd kados: If you take out the punctuation the match would fail.
16:21 kados right ... because it's in marc_subfield_table
16:21 kados good point
16:22 thd kados: It would be easier if the search would match 'Lewis C S' but not 'Lewis C Stanley'.
16:23 kados yea
16:23 kados that's quite tough to actually program in SQL though
16:23 kados really, this conversation should be happening
16:23 kados because every time we had it up until we learned about textual databases
16:23 kados we couldn't come up with a solution that would solve every case
16:24 kados the textual route is the way to go ...
16:25 thd kados: Textual databases are nothing new.  It is those SQL databases that are a strange recent fashion :)
16:25 thd kados: Have you tested the barcodes?
16:26 kados thd: with my eyes ;-)
16:26 kados thd: I've got a barcode scanner but no printer
16:27 thd kados: The code is actually somewhat confused since Paul changed the generated code from EAN-13 to code 128 in November while the number going in seems to still be designed as basically EAN-13.
16:28 thd kados: no one but the Argentines have been using this successfully if they are.
16:34 thd kados: paul's users do not even use it.  There is some extra code required to process the full captured barcode with prefix and check digit appended.  If the code is not in a routine called every time a barcode is input in Koha, then it must be in the scanner, given a scanner with that capability.
03:21 thd good morning hdl
03:22 hdl evening thd.
03:24 thd hdl: The advantage of adding books to reading lists that the library does not own is to include reading form bookshops, other libraries, etc. and to promote them in a public reading list.
03:25 thd s/reading list/virtual bookshelf/  # if you prefer.
03:30 thd hdl: Unfortunately, there is no facility for adding notes for comments, a review. or whatever as can be done with ordering suggestions; encouraging or discouraging others form reading a book, in a public virtual bookshelf.  Furthermore, to see any public or free virtual bookshelf a user must have bothered to log in so there is a slightly more than casual requirement to view them.  Otherwise a very nice feature :)
03:32 hdl thd : this virtual bookshelf on not owned should be a peculiar type of bookshelf. process would be different.
03:33 hdl But yes, would be a nice fature for 3.0 ....
03:33 thd hdl: Did you see my comment from yesterday shortly after you had marked yourself away about how normal acquisitions being broken in since version 1.2.3.  chris has been fixing it now for end of the month.
03:34 hdl thd : yep thx.
03:36 thd hdl: If you can manage to receiving anything in Koha, you have been able to do more than I have without getting an error.   I even tried cheating in SQL to fill values that the templates had discarded :)
03:40 thd hdl: Templates discarded my invoice numbers and then the orders could not be found if the shopping basket was closed, but filling them in SQL was insufficient for the full receiving process.
09:48 hdl hi owen.
09:48 owen Hi hdl
10:56 paul hi owen.
10:56 owen Hi paul
10:56 paul owen, a quick question : what is PROG template status ?
10:57 paul 10% done ? 90% done ?
10:57 owen Sorry I haven't responded on the list to your question
10:57 kados paul: owen is waiting for me to finish configuring 3.0
10:57 paul something between ?
10:57 kados paul: so you can blame me ;-)
10:57 paul hi joshua
10:57 kados g'day
10:57 kados :-)
10:57 paul ... but nothing happends ...
10:57 owen 80% done.  I need to test on a "working" HEAD installation
10:57 paul so that's useless ...
10:57 kados I will have time after today to work on it
10:58 paul note that i'll be off next 2 weeks.
10:58 owen When will you release 2.2.4?
10:58 kados dates?
10:58 paul 1 week teaching koha, with some internet access, but no time
10:58 paul 1 week in burkina faso, to speak of "developpement durable" and "bibliotheque numerique" and "logiciels libres"
10:58 paul i'm a little bit late on 2.2.4 i'm afraid !
10:59 paul I have to release a 2.2.4 RC1 (at least for hdl & me) because we have to set it on 2 libraries :-(
10:59 paul )
10:59 paul but there are still some problems to solve !
10:59 paul (minor ones)
11:00 paul one less problem : the leader works for joshua as well as for me ;-)
11:00 kados paul I recently discovered a possible bug ... if an itemtype is set to 'notforloan' a patron can still reserve it
11:00 paul didn't we fix this last week ?
11:01 kados paul: +1 now :/
11:01 kados ahh ... perhaps
11:01 kados no ...
11:01 kados one difference
11:01 paul (the ->{notforloan} || ->{itemnotforloan} change
11:01 paul )
11:01 kados no ... that just helps with display
11:01 kados not with pre-crafted reserve CGI
11:01 kados to reserve the non-reservable item
11:02 kados in other words, even though a patron does not see that she can reserve an item, if you substitute the bibid in the link Koha will not prevent it
11:02 kados I will investigate why though
11:02 kados so you don't need to ;-)
11:02 kados paul: when do you leave?
11:03 kados (I have some news btw. An Ohio University class will work with NPL to design a new cataloging component for Koha: a Z39.50 web-based front end (based at first on Net::Z3950 and then on Perl-ZOOM) and an integrated MARC editor)
11:04 kados (here is the draft of the project proposal: http://www.athenscounty.lib.oh[…]atalogingproject)
11:04 kados (I will meet with the class tomorrow to talk about questions they have)
11:07 paul I love your 1st tech requirement :-D
11:07 paul 100% free software ? we?re open-source nuts and won?t settle for anything less than 100% free.
11:07 kados :-)
11:08 paul feel free to add this irc channel, i'll be happy to give some help where needed
11:08 kados cool
11:08 kados also, please feel free to edit the wiki page
11:08 paul (in fact i already had some ideas on this subject, but, as usual, no time to investigate it deeper !)
11:08 kados if you see something missing ;-)
11:09 kados we need more programmers ;-)
11:09 paul grrrr... stupid sprintf sub...
11:09 paul that add space BEFORE and not AFTER a string ...
11:09 paul when %24s, leader()
11:10 paul if the leader is less than 24 char, spaces are added before, breaking everything...
11:10 paul 1 less problem to understand !
11:11 paul ok, problem fixed
11:11 paul %-24s instead of %24s does what we need !
11:13 kados paul: to you knowledge do we have problems if 008 field contains any '|' ?
11:23 paul mmm... we could.
11:23 paul as I consider | as separator for repeated values.
11:23 paul (although 008 has no subfield so i'm not sure we have the problem)
11:23 paul let me know ;-)
11:26 kados paul: i will
11:28 paul leaving now, read you tomorrow
11:29 tim kados:  You wouldn't happen to be thinking of our records?
11:29 kados tim: sure am ;-)
11:29 tim Sagebrush left a wonderful mess in there.
11:29 kados tim: don't worry ... we'll clean it up realy nice ;-)
11:30 tim I started working on a script to replace 'em with spaces.
11:31 kados tim: that's what I'm planning to do
11:31 kados tim: any other 'gotchas' that you know about?
11:31 kados tim: we'll have to talk about locations and itemtypes
11:31 kados tim: as I think you'll want those normalized
11:32 tim None that I can think of at the moment.  I was trying to work our the problems before I exported.
11:33 tim I forgot to mention the 008 problem to you, but remember talking about it in here before.
11:33 kados tim: since I've got you here
11:33 tim Don't remember if it was you was talking to.
11:34 kados tim: could you just brief me on all the files, etc in the jmf home directory
11:34 tim I'll take a look...
11:34 kados in the Athena\ Database I see:
11:34 kados CURRCIRC.DBF  HISTCIRC.DBF  PATSUMM.DBF  athena.mrc                             FINEDET.DBF   OVERDET.DBF   RESDET.DBF
11:34 kados well ... there's a 09012005
11:35 kados directory with another Athena\ Database dir
11:35 kados then we've got a few .sql files
11:35 kados and a (which I assume is your MARC repair script)
11:35 tim the 09012005 directory is the updated directory.  The one that was up to date on your starting day.
11:36 kados ok ... and Athena.tgz is just a tgz of that dir

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