| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 15:55 |
|
ema |
Hey Chris - are you about |
| 15:56 |
|
Jo |
can you come to #koha |
| 16:04 |
|
chris |
hi jo whats up? |
| 17:05 |
|
Genji |
hiya Rach! |
| 17:05 |
|
Genji |
hiya chris! |
| 17:05 |
|
Genji |
hiya anyone else. |
| 17:37 |
|
thd |
hello Genji |
| 17:49 |
|
Genji |
hiya thd. how goes? |
| 17:59 |
|
Genji |
hiya rosa. Rach is back home eh? |
| 18:00 |
|
rach |
no still away |
| 18:00 |
|
thd |
Genji: I found two OCLC records with no holdings last week. I had not known that was actually possible. |
| 18:00 |
|
Genji |
thd: OCLC? |
| 18:07 |
|
thd |
Genji: http://www.oclc.org/ . Perhaps the membership where you are is relatively small. It is only the world's largest library network. I would have thought that a record could not be created without a holding. My experience was something like finding a clover with a magical number of leaves. All the librarians where I was wanted to look and see for themselves. |
| 18:08 |
|
Genji |
thd: ahh.. hmm.. k. why would a library have a record but no item? |
| 18:09 |
|
thd |
Genji: Maybe libraries are able to suppress pubic display of their holdings on OCLC to avoid interlibrary loan requests :) |
| 18:29 |
|
Genji |
hmm.. im thinking... store the membership pictures inside a blob of mysql, or as a file in the webspace? |
| 18:29 |
|
chris |
file |
| 18:30 |
|
Genji |
-nods- k. |
| 18:31 |
|
chris |
then you can use owens suggestion to get pictures going nice and easily :) |
| 18:31 |
|
Genji |
i would of thought using mysql, very secure, and when backing up the database, your backing up the pics as well. |
| 18:33 |
|
Genji |
and the pics is data...... should be kept with the other data... maybe a blob field inside borrowers. |
| 18:33 |
|
chris |
i wouldnt |
| 18:33 |
|
chris |
it will slow down mysql |
| 18:33 |
|
Genji |
ahh.. right. true. Do we have a standardised backup system for koha yet? |
| 18:33 |
|
chris |
nope |
| 18:34 |
|
chris |
if you leave them as files as well, then whatever CMS system your library uses to manage its website, can just manage the pictures too |
| 18:35 |
|
Genji |
Ah.. true. But im thinking, give koha the ability to upload pics. After all... not every librarian will have write access to the cms. |
| 18:38 |
|
chris |
yep, the beauty with owens suggestion is |
| 18:38 |
|
chris |
it needs no changes to koha at all |
| 18:38 |
|
chris |
you just change a template, and put the files somewhere and it will just work |
| 18:39 |
|
Genji |
-nods- just the upload interface and pl file needs to be done. quite simple. |
| 18:39 |
|
chris |
you'll probably want to add a permission for that |
| 18:40 |
|
chris |
as id imagine only certain trusted users will be able to upload files |
| 18:41 |
|
Genji |
Ah... hmm.... right... is there a flag system for koha intranet users? |
| 18:41 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 18:42 |
|
Genji |
any flags in use yet? |
| 18:43 |
|
chris |
yeah lots of them |
| 18:43 |
|
chris |
C4::Auth |
| 18:43 |
|
chris |
is where its handled |
| 18:43 |
|
Genji |
ahh.. you mean the smallint(6) named level? |
| 18:43 |
|
chris |
take a look at say catalogue-home.pl |
| 18:44 |
|
chris |
flagsrequired => {catalogue => 1}, |
| 18:50 |
|
Genji |
ahhh... the power from the flag system comes from getuserflags of auth.pm |
| 18:50 |
|
chris |
thats yep |
| 18:51 |
|
chris |
which is called by get_template_and_user |
| 18:51 |
|
Genji |
wheres setuserflags? |
| 18:51 |
|
chris |
have you got a koha up and running there? |
| 18:51 |
|
Genji |
yup. |
| 18:51 |
|
chris |
find a borrower |
| 18:51 |
|
Genji |
hmmm.... see if i have any created, yet. |
| 18:52 |
|
chris |
at the bottom of the page at moremember.pl there should be a link "modify users flags" |
| 18:53 |
|
Genji |
yup. see it.. looking at its page now, nice. |
| 18:54 |
|
Genji |
would pics come under update borrowerchanges? |
| 18:54 |
|
Genji |
and add/modify borrowers? |
| 18:55 |
|
Genji |
eh.. first one was charges.. which is wrong. |
| 18:55 |
|
chris |
hmmm |
| 18:55 |
|
Genji |
ya.... im thinking add/modify borrower's flag. and install a button on the add/modify pages. |
| 18:55 |
|
Genji |
"Upload Picture" |
| 18:55 |
|
chris |
hmm no |
| 18:56 |
|
Genji |
Hmm? |
| 18:56 |
|
chris |
i was meaning thats where you set the permission for the person to be able to upload files |
| 18:56 |
|
Genji |
ya... im thinking that the flag to use will be the add/modify borrower's flag. |
| 18:57 |
|
chris |
ahhh right i getcha |
| 18:58 |
|
chris |
yep that will work |
| 18:58 |
|
Genji |
and the upload interface will be gotten from clicking "Upload Picture" somewhere inside moremember. |
| 18:58 |
|
chris |
sounds good to me |
| 19:03 |
|
Genji |
picture in a div, under the borrowers name, with the button underneath it? |
| 19:04 |
|
Genji |
of course, im always working with the en/css template... |
| 19:36 |
|
Genji |
borrower images are global, as in, are beyond the template system.... the same borrower image would appear in any language and in any template (default or npl) so would appear in intranet-html/borrowerimages? |
| 19:44 |
|
chris |
id guess so |
| 20:03 |
|
Genji |
how do i use perl to pick up the root directory of the web server? i want to do a if (-e test... yet saying /borrowerimages/ means the root of the entire filesystem borrowerimages. Is there a $webroot variable? |
| 20:04 |
|
Genji |
nevermind. |
| 20:04 |
|
Genji |
got it at output.pm... $htdocs. |
| 20:14 |
|
Genji |
yay! |
| 20:14 |
|
Genji |
got a pic displaying. |
| 20:14 |
|
Genji |
now to write upload. |
| 20:40 |
|
Genji |
# $Id: moremember.pl,v 1.10 2005/03/07 08:55:31 tipaul Exp $ |
| 20:40 |
|
Genji |
is $id a magic line that cvs modifies? |
| 20:40 |
|
chris |
yes |
| 20:41 |
|
chris |
$Id: |
| 20:41 |
|
Genji |
so, to make it appear above my script, i just put # $Id: in it somewhere? |
| 20:41 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 20:42 |
|
Genji |
cool. Anything else i need to know about making a well coded koha script? |
| 20:42 |
|
chris |
take a look here |
| 20:43 |
|
chris |
http://www.kohadocs.org/codingguidelines.html |
| 20:44 |
|
Genji |
oh, hrm... storing the borrowerimages inside intranet-html makes life difficult for cvs updating? |
| 21:00 |
|
Genji |
hrm ... security concern. how do I protect borrowerimages directory against unauthorized viewing? i.e. viewing by means other than the koha system? |
| 21:05 |
|
ambrose |
hi. has anyone by any chance heard of any reports of utf-8 related problems in koha 2.2? |
| 21:53 |
|
Genji |
okay, prelimiary upload code done.. as well as template for the upload screen, so i can click on the "Upload Picture" label below the borrower's name in moremembers.... takes me to a upload page, i upload the file, and it takes me back to the borrower i was looking at... for some reason i have to click refresh to make the new picture show. |
| 22:52 |
|
Genji |
also, i have that niggling security concern |
| 23:46 |
|
Genji |
code uploaded to the cvs. can someone post on koha-devel for me? seems i can't do that. |
| 23:53 |
|
Genji |
hey, chris.. when's rach getting back |
| 23:53 |
|
Genji |
? |
| 23:56 |
|
chris |
in about a week i think |
| 23:58 |
|
Genji |
cool cool. |
| 01:27 |
|
thd |
ambrose: what character set problems are you having? |
| 01:27 |
|
ambrose |
thd: utf-8 |
| 01:28 |
|
thd |
ambrose: how do these problems manifest themselves? |
| 01:28 |
|
ambrose |
thd: not exactly a problem i'm having, rather a user reporting the problem & i haven't the time to test things out myself |
| 01:29 |
|
thd |
ambrose: Is the user reporting a display problem or a record storage problem? |
| 01:29 |
|
ambrose |
thd: at this point i'm not sure whether it's a display problem or a record storage problem |
| 01:29 |
|
ambrose |
thd: it manifests as a display problem, but could be a storage problem |
| 01:30 |
|
ambrose |
http://ada.dhs.org/~gniw/3068494905-koha.jpg |
| 01:31 |
|
ambrose |
sorry, let me fix the permissions... |
| 01:37 |
|
ambrose |
fixed |
| 01:38 |
|
ambrose |
the first character that failed to show up in the sample is utf-8 e8 8b b1, displayed as ef bf bd ‹ ef bf bd |
| 01:38 |
|
ambrose |
‹ happens to be 8b in windows-1252 encoding |
| 01:39 |
|
ambrose |
the second character that failed to show up in the sample is utf-8 e5 9b bd displayed as ef bf bd › ef bf bd |
| 01:39 |
|
ambrose |
and › happens to be 9b in windows-1252 encoding |
| 01:39 |
|
ambrose |
i am not sure what the ef bf bd sequences are |
| 01:40 |
|
thd |
ambrose: Is the user on a MS Windows system? |
| 01:40 |
|
ambrose |
this is the current observation. without testing this myself i am not sure about anything more |
| 01:40 |
|
ambrose |
thd: the screeenshot shows a gnome desktop |
| 01:41 |
|
ambrose |
thd: so i believe this is linux, not windows |
| 01:41 |
|
ambrose |
i am corresponding with him only by email, so communication is a bit slow too |
| 01:42 |
|
thd |
ambrose: Is the user is cataloguing in an Asian language? |
| 01:42 |
|
ambrose |
thd: yes, in simplified Chinese |
| 01:45 |
|
thd |
ambrose: I have occasionally seen a problem resembling this outside of Koha on my own system. |
| 01:46 |
|
ambrose |
thd: incidentally, he reported that the problem is new to koha 2.2 |
| 01:47 |
|
ambrose |
thd: but since he is working on a modified koha, i cannot be sure where the problem is right now even though it is i who told him how to modify it to use utf-8 |
| 01:47 |
|
thd |
ambrose: Did he recently upgrade to 2.2? |
| 01:48 |
|
ambrose |
thd: i believe he is a new user, currently testing koha 2.2 and tried 2.0 and 1.x only in an attempt to isolate the problem |
| 01:48 |
|
ambrose |
thd: but i am not sure. i'll need to ask him to confirm |
| 01:49 |
|
thd |
ambrose: What modifications did you introduce for UTF-8? |
| 01:50 |
|
ambrose |
thd: basically, the line <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> is added to all .inc files in the two en/include directories in the templates |
| 01:51 |
|
ambrose |
thd: (i wrote the relevant code that handles this, incidentally :-/ ) |
| 01:52 |
|
thd |
ambrose: Which relevant code? |
| 01:52 |
|
ambrose |
actually not all .inc files, just those that require this line |
| 01:53 |
|
ambrose |
thd: C4::Interface::CGI::Output.pm |
| 02:02 |
|
thd |
ambrose: the language variable in your module is only coming from the Koha preferences setting. Am I correct? |
| 02:03 |
|
ambrose |
thd: any reference to a language would come from the Koha preferences setting. but in the code it tries to determine the charset (not language) according to the html passed to it |
| 02:03 |
|
ambrose |
thd: theoretically, the rest is up to HTML::Mason and/or Apache |
| 02:04 |
|
ambrose |
unfortunately (and i should apologize again) i haven't touched koha for such a long time i'm not familiar with its workings any more |
| 02:06 |
|
thd |
ambrose: The user's browser will usually fail to decode UTF-8 by default in Mozilla unless the OS locale setting is set to UTF-8. |
| 02:07 |
|
ambrose |
thd: from the screenshot and source code given by the user, the browser is correctly interpreting the page as utf-8. however, there are a couple of characters that seem to be corrupted. at this point i don't know where the corruption is occurring |
| 02:09 |
|
ambrose |
thd: (modern browsers will decode UTF-8 correctly given that Apache sends the correct header that declares the page to be utf-8. the purpose of my module was for koha to pass something to HTML::Mason that will make it (HTML::Mason) in turn tell Apache that the page is utf-8.) |
| 02:11 |
|
ambrose |
thd: right now i can only guess. it is possible that the utf-8 is corrupted before it is passed to my module. or HTML::Mason could be corrupting it for some reason. if koha 2.0 does not have the bug, it seems that the first possibility is more plausible |
| 02:11 |
|
thd |
ambrose: So my problem has been an Apache problem? |
| 02:12 |
|
ambrose |
thd: when i asked earlier, i was thinking, if this is a real bug (vs. an error in the modificaton), some Polish librarian might notice some similar oddity |
| 02:12 |
|
ambrose |
thd: if a page is in utf-8 but the user has to explicitly select a utf-8 encoding, it is most likely a bug in the page markup (failure to declare the page as utf-8) |
| 02:13 |
|
thd |
ambrose: <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> was not enough for Mozilla to recognise the correct character set. |
| 02:13 |
|
ambrose |
thd: hmm. then it would look like an Apache problem |
| 02:13 |
|
ambrose |
thd: however, if this is koha, you will need to use my module somehow, because of the complication of HTML::Mason |
| 02:14 |
|
thd |
ambrose: I could manually select the character set in Mozilla for correct display of the character set. |
| 02:16 |
|
ambrose |
thd: if you have the Mozilla "Web Developer" tools installed, you can try Information|View Response Headers |
| 02:16 |
|
ambrose |
thd: it would seem likely that Apache somehow fails to realize the page is UTF-8 for some reason |
| 02:17 |
|
thd |
ambrose: Without my manual selection of the character set, I may have seen something like your image. I was working outside of Koha on some simple code to replace the Z39.50 client. |
| 02:18 |
|
ambrose |
thd: for this image, though, this cannot be a case of the browser not decoding the page as utf-8, because the whole page has been correctly handled as utf-8, except for only 2 characters |
| 02:18 |
|
ambrose |
thd: so there definitely is some corruption somewhere |
| 02:19 |
|
ambrose |
thd: i guess i need to test this out myself and report back here. if the Poles haven't reported this problem, this might not be a real bug |
| 02:20 |
|
thd |
ambrose: my response headers show Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 for the page set to UTF-8. |
| 02:21 |
|
ambrose |
thd: yeah, that'd be why the user has to manually select UTF-8, but i'm not sure why Apache is doing that... |
| 02:21 |
|
ambrose |
thd: is this just a web page, or is it going through HTML::Mason or anything like that? |
| 02:22 |
|
thd |
ambrose: do you know what happens if your user manually selects the UTF-8 encoding in the browser? |
| 02:23 |
|
ambrose |
thd: no, but i believe it won't have any effect. he sent me the source code of that problematic page and it is corrupted utf-8 (and only those few characters are corrupted). |
| 02:28 |
|
thd |
ambrose: I thought I remembered from W3C that using something like <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> in the document header would override the Apache encoding setting. |
| 02:29 |
|
ambrose |
thd: i remember reading that too. i guess somehow mozilla doesn't follow this particular recommendation |
| 02:29 |
|
Sylvain |
hi all |
| 02:29 |
|
ambrose |
hi |
| 02:29 |
|
thd |
hello Sylvain |
| 02:33 |
|
thd |
ambrose: manually setting the encoding in Mozilla works in that page only. Mozilla restores the default encoding for subsequent pages and even manual reloading of the document. |
| 02:35 |
|
ambrose |
thd: hmm. it seems that mozilla believes apache's content-type header more than the page's meta tag |
| 02:41 |
|
thd |
ambrose: I should be able to remove Apache from consideration by opening a saved HTML page directly from the file system. |
| 02:44 |
|
ambrose |
thd: you mean, mozilla still treats the page as iso8859-1 even if you load it from the file system? that's weird |
| 02:47 |
|
thd |
ambrose: No, everything works as it should if I read the page directly from the file system without involving Apache. |
| 02:47 |
|
ambrose |
thd: wait... did you say this is a z39.50 client? |
| 02:48 |
|
ambrose |
thd: so this is cgi? |
| 02:48 |
|
thd |
ambrose: I saw this problem first when starting to rewrite a Z39.50 client. |
| 02:49 |
|
ambrose |
hmm |
| 02:49 |
|
ambrose |
thd: anyway, i got to sleep, as it's 0349 already and i need to wake up for work tomorrow |
| 02:49 |
|
ambrose |
nite all |
| 02:50 |
|
thd |
ambrose: I am not sure it was CGI exactly but it works in a similar way using PHP/YAZ. |
| 02:51 |
|
thd |
good night ambrose, I am in the same time zone :) |
| 02:51 |
|
ambrose |
thd: for cgi you'll need to make sure to output the correct html header; for php i'm not so sure (i'm not really familiar with php) |
| 02:51 |
|
ambrose |
thd: sleep early :D good night |
| 02:52 |
|
thd |
good night ambrose |
| 03:17 |
|
hdl |
hi |
| 08:17 |
|
hdl |
on a une osmoze à eclipse aujourd'hui ;) |
| 08:19 |
|
osmoze_ |
:) j ai surtout un reseau tout foireux a la maison en ce moment, va falloir que je me penche dessus ^^ |
| 09:52 |
|
thd |
What character set is most commonly used in French UNIMARC records? |
| 09:55 |
|
kados |
morning owen |
| 09:55 |
|
owen |
Hi |
| 09:55 |
|
owen |
How's it going? |
| 09:55 |
|
kados |
pretty good |
| 09:55 |
|
kados |
how about you? |
| 09:55 |
|
thd |
owen: Have you discovered what NPL cataloguers do with the MARC-8 character set? |
| 09:56 |
|
owen |
thd, you asked me on Friday. I just got to work on Monday! |
| 09:56 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 09:56 |
|
thd |
owen: I seldom stop working except when I fall asleep :) |
| 09:57 |
|
owen |
I don't think the catalogers work that way |
| 09:58 |
|
thd |
owen: they do not have enough to do :) |
| 09:59 |
|
owen |
Oh, they have plenty to do. For instance, I saw one of them at the pool on Saturday. ;) |
| 10:02 |
|
owen |
Okay thd: I don't know if this answers your question, but our catalogers simply strip out special characters when they come across them |
| 10:03 |
|
owen |
I'm sure that sounds barbaric to you :) |
| 10:04 |
|
owen |
I think the rationale was this: users can't properly search for a word that contains characters that aren't on our keyboards, so such things would be unsearchable. |
| 10:18 |
|
thd |
owen: Koha needs character set conversion for display and index normalisation for the MARC-8 character set. |
| 10:25 |
|
thd |
owen: Multi byte character sets should be properly usable by version 3.0 but I need them now. |
| 10:25 |
|
owen |
Bummer. |
| 10:27 |
|
thd |
owen: It looks as if I will be writing my own MARC-8 conversion routines since I cannot find one that works reliably. |
| 10:27 |
|
owen |
I'm sure others will appreciate your efforts |
| 10:28 |
|
thd |
hdl, osmoze_: What character set is most commonly used in French UNIMARC records? |
| 10:32 |
|
thd |
owen: I am only planning to map mostly common Latin characters with diacritical marks between MARC-8 and UTF-7, ISO 646. That is not a very large task. |
| 10:37 |
|
thd |
hdl: Have I been too early and too late for France again today? |
| 10:48 |
|
thd |
owen: Do the cataloguers at NPL save a form of the record in ITS MARC for Windows that retains the MARC-8 character set or do they just destroy the original form for all copies of the record? |
| 10:48 |
|
owen |
I assume that what goes into Koha is what they save. |
| 10:49 |
|
thd |
owen: Your assumption is barbaric :) |
| 10:52 |
|
thd |
owen: There ought to be a pristine glorious record kept safely somewhere :) |
| 11:18 |
|
osmoze_ |
thd, i don't understand your question |
| 11:18 |
|
osmoze_ |
hello all |
| 11:21 |
|
thd |
osmoze: UNIMARC 100 $a/26-29 specifies a character set. What character set is usually found in such records? |
| 11:25 |
|
thd |
osmoze: In those four positions 01 is ISO 646 and 03 is ISO 5426 |
| 11:27 |
|
osmoze |
i don't konw about animarc...But i can send you a file with 2 marc record of my librairy |
| 11:28 |
|
osmoze |
sorry, one day, i learn about unimarc ^^ |
| 11:28 |
|
osmoze |
+will |
| 11:30 |
|
osmoze |
or hdl will answers at your question :) |
| 11:30 |
|
thd |
osmoze: ISO 5426 is a multi-byte character set for libraries where I believe even 'é' would be expressed as a multi-byte character. This is similar to UTF-8 but a different encoding. |
| 11:31 |
|
thd |
osmoze: where is hdl now? |
| 11:31 |
|
osmoze |
i don't know, i m not his wife ^^, whe have 500 kilometers between :) |
| 11:32 |
|
thd |
osmoze: I have kept missing him lately on IRC to ask this question. |
| 11:32 |
|
osmoze |
ok, and where i can find that on my koha ? |
| 11:33 |
|
thd |
osmoze: Where can you find what? |
| 11:34 |
|
osmoze |
nothing, i ve rread all trhe conversation, sorry, my screen is so little ^^, i read explanation |
| 11:34 |
|
thd |
osmoze: Does your MARC framework have field 100? |
| 11:34 |
|
osmoze |
(my english is very bad today...) |
| 11:34 |
|
osmoze |
yes |
| 11:34 |
|
osmoze |
like this 100 _a19010119d1998 m y1|||a0103 || |
| 11:34 |
|
osmoze |
it's that ? |
| 11:34 |
|
thd |
yes |
| 11:41 |
|
osmoze |
and ? |
| 11:45 |
|
thd |
osmoze: http://www.ifla.org/VI/3/p1996-1/uni1.htm is for UNIMARC bibliographic |
| 11:46 |
|
osmoze |
ok, thanks :) |
| 11:48 |
|
thd |
osmoze: your record seems to show both 01 for ISO 646 as character set G0 and 03 for ISO 5426 as character set G1. |
| 11:50 |
|
thd |
osmoze: Are characters with diacritical marks represented in multi-byte form in your records? |
| 11:52 |
|
osmoze |
hum..i am see |
| 11:53 |
|
osmoze |
diacritical ? |
| 11:55 |
|
osmoze |
i understand why; it's not my record, what can i exctract a record in command line ? |
| 11:56 |
|
osmoze |
-what + how |
